Toblerone007
Toblerone007
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@Jallybwan said:
Actually, you know what - given the amazing lengths some people are going to in order to "prove" that having an FOV slider would be unfair, I've realized I don't need to bother with arguments around balance. This isn't a balance issue.
It's an accessibility issue, like colourblind settings. Opposing an FOV slider because it supposedly gives killers some huge advantage is just as ridiculous as opposing colourblind settings because someone might misuse them and get an advantage. It's a bad hill to die on, because even if you do get an advantage from an FOV slider, that is 100% worth it to make up for the unfairness of having to waste a perk to not feel sick in this game.
There is no valid reason why there shouldn't be an FOV slider in this game, balance-related or otherwise.
It's a balance issue. Just because you've said otherwise doesn't change anything. It's not about it being unfair or not rather it being a net buff to killer where the game has been built around the same base mechanics of low fov. You're asking for a base kit buff to all killers.
It's not accessability. Sit further back from your monitor if you're getting motion sickness. Your peripheral vision should be telling your inner ear fluid that you're not moving.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045836#Comment_2045836
I was saying You as in YOU, not me.
Nice.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045396#Comment_2045396
@Toblerone007 I never edited anything. Still the same as it was. Must be the server, not me. I enjoy going against them. This is the first time I've been seeing them both in a long time and after getting 13 Spirit games in a row in 1 day, I'm happy to go against them. I still run them like I use to, except I throw pallets a bit sooner than I usually do. Blight; I try to whack him with a pallet still.
Dude. "YOU can't counter it" was the typo I'm talking about. My god. You were saying you CAN.
I'll take a 180 flick oni over spirit any day but I'm just saying just because it's more fun to verse than spirit doesn't make it fair. It's unintended firstly and not even possible with a controller. No surprises if it gets removed.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045353#Comment_2045353
@Toblerone007 My sentence structure is fine. Use a good argument instead of nitpicking. Curve Billy was doing this for years and no one bats an eye. Oni and Blight do it for a day and everyone loses their minds. Learn to counter it instead of complaining. I've defended both sides over the years but this isn't one of them. I will not agree with something that just isn't true. YOU cannot beat them. I CAN. That's all.
No your autocorrect or whatever. It went from can to can't. First sentence. I wasn't talking about your sentences. They're A okay.
I'm not complaining. I know how to dodge it. I'm just saying it's a 50/50 every time they do it with an ability that is already super powerful.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041778#Comment_2041778
@Toblerone007 YOU can't counter it. I definitely have multiple times and got videos of me doing it. Don't lump me in please. Blights' flick and Oni is fair.
Even your autocorrect couldn't type out your sentence correctly.
Your counterplay is to run out into the hitzone where a normal player can turn. For every time Oni/Blight can already get hits, how's it make sense to have a 50/50 in the limited space you can use to maneouvre away from a blight/oni in power.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
@Seraphor Yes exactly these people don’t get it. Its funny how so many complain about queue times but then they’ll turn around and flatout refuse to play killer to avoid queues.
@Toblerone007 No the “feeling” is important. Its like the object of obsession debate, Almo says its not overpowered but the point is its incredibly frustrating to go against. Having someone just tap a button to deny the hook you just worked so hard for is insane. The only reason I havent noticed this before is because nobody used it, now its every game, and its so obnoxious.
@alecsharks Sadly I agree. Everything on the survivor side is snapp and responsive. Killers always feel stiff and awkward. Like pyramid letting go of m2, plague stopping the puke. Theres a good few seconds where you cant do anything. I get its an attempt at balance but it just makes the killers feel stiff and unwieldy but the survivors feel so fast and responsive in every action.
Then you have the fact that killers have so much counterplay. Killer powers and perks often have hard counterplay, whereas survivor perks tend to have no counterplay other than hoping the other player makes a mistake.
Its very easy to see the reason why despite the survivor side needing 4 times as many players, its the killer side that has instant queues. In these types of games its usually the 1 that has the longer queues, not the 4. You would think this would set off red flags but apparently not.
OoO is actually a competitive advantage in a communicating swf. It's actually OP.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2044844#Comment_2044844
I had one of them fluctuate between 30ish and 500 ping. My character kept rubber banding randomly during the match and they would look like they ran past pallets, only to float back and and drop it on me after i had already fully passed through it.
Yes that's correct. It's a survivor client hit registration. That's also why Head On works even if you're miles from the locker.
This is an integrity issue. You can't really lower your ping once your network is routed correctly. You can however add ping time as you please. Adding ping gives an advantage to killer hits and those survivor interactions (pallets, head on, flashlight saves and also grabs even though it's technically the killer doing it).
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2044660#Comment_2044660
Yeah.. its on me that grabs get cancelled and a point blank hit to the face phases through the survivor and my camera spazzes out while they are at full health. totally ME not the game at all.
A killer with 1000 ping is at an advantage but when it is the other way around the survivor has the advantage.
Yeah you get robbed grabs by lagging survivors 100%. You see them teleport too if their ping is jittering bad. They need to add interpolation of movement for lagging survivors so you can hit them without issues and make it so the server calculated all hits exclusively. Therefore if you have the best ping you will hit every grab every hit etc.
Vice versa too, if you're high ping killer and get those hits through windows and pallets. They don't count.
It's how all other dedicated server pvp games do it.
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@Profezia said:
Hiding isn't an option now. It is time to directly confront your horrors.
When killer closes the hatch while you're the last survivor, Final Standoff activates.
While Final Standoff is active the following happens:
- 4/5/6 random broken/dropped pallets are reset by the Entity.
- Both exit gate switches begin slowly progressing on their own until fully activated within 110 seconds. Exit gates locations are revealed to you again once they are opened.
- Both killer and you see each other's auras until the chase starts. This effect pierces any aura reading immunity effects.
Basically:
Current last survivor standoff is killer walking from one gate to another until survivor either rats one of them or dies to EGC/makes a mistake and gets found. No real skill involved, just RNG who gets luckier with exit gates.
With this perk, survivor would have a more fair chance to win since they would now have not to rely on a coinflip spawn, but on their own skill to either run killer long enough for exit gates to open on their own or just die faster.
I'm all for a standoff 1v1 end game for either killer or survivor to come out on top.
It's not worth a perk slot though. Doesn't it make more sense to use left behind and get hatch before the killer gets to it? Left behind is D tier because it uses a perk slot for almost nothing.
Your suggestion would work better as an endgame collapse 1v1 the killer last man standing. Naturally, some maps won't be fair for killer like the game's current god pallets as @Pulsar pointed out. Not to mention this is 100% a win for spirit/nurse/deathslinger. It wouldn't work as is.
That said I do think current last man standing is lackluster because it's up to RNG so I see where your suggestion is coming from.
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@Kolossoni said:
Seriously. Why is Bubba so common now?
He's boring as hell to face and is mostly camping basement.
Is it because of BBQ or is Bubba so much fun that he literally hogs all the killer players in DBD?
Trust me. He is one of the most fun killers to verse. Myers and doctor have some unfun elements (bubba too). Most of these killers are fairly wholesome to play and verse.
Spirit/Deathslinger are where it's at for unfun. Trust. God Nurse too.
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Yo Fizzy.
Drop the survivor?
Survivors are off generators if they're sabotaging hooks, it isn't free. Lol
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@swager21 said:
sluzzy 2.0
LOL
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@Yords said:
If a killer had no cooldown, no limit to how long they can use their power for, who would be the strongest? They still suffer from regular cooldowns such as hitting survivors or missing them with their power but have unlimited duration of their powers. For example, huntress could hold her hatchets and they could infinitely be charged to practically lightspeed and have unlimited hatchets.
And yes, perks are allowed in your answers.
I think it would be Nurse, Spirit, and Oni in that order.
The Nurse would obviously be the top pick since she would pretty much have no obstacle stopping her and she could teleport
The spirit gives no information when phasing and goes very fast when phasing at base. So, it can be used in chasing and for mobility.
The Oni would be last because he has high mobility and has the potential to insta down survivors, but survivors can play as they would normally against him. It would not matter if the survivors were really good because he has unlimited use of his power.
But who knows? Maybe it could be trapper since survivors could stealth around for the other killers and trapper could negate every resources survivors have to use slowly, but eventually, trap the whole map.
Comment your killers below.
Nurse, Spirit, Oni
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2042980#Comment_2042980
I'll gladly trade NOED for Dead Hard 👀
Deal.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
If you run the killer for 60 seconds after unhook you’ve done good for the team. Thats 75% of 3 generators if they’ve been efficient.
Its a 1 vs 4 not a 1 vs 1, sometimes it sucks for the 1 being tunnelled or not escaping but you’ve done more than enough for the team.
Wouldn't it put it more in line as an anti-tunnel perk? If it makes you lose to tunnel no matter how long you commit then doesn't it incentivise chasing someone else?
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I think people remember the times where dead hard has extended a chase more than the times it's done nothing as an exhaustion perk.
I've played killer all day today and I've went against countless dead hards and while some of them were great and extended a chase. Most of them bought them a couple more seconds. Sprint Burst is so much more powerful than dead hard but I hardly see it.
I don't find dead hard unfair but I can see where killers are coming from. I just want to reiterate that this perk is up there for most fun to use. I have baited more dead hards out today then lost to them.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/236499/please-nerf-noed
Does NOED feel bad to get hit by? Yes. Do I realize that NOED isn't an OP perk, yes. Is it my fault for being hit by NOED? Usually.
I don't think NOED is a healthy perk, but I don't think it is overpowered either.
This.
Not OP but very unfun to play against.
Think Old Ruin. Same issue.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041876#Comment_2041876
Not at all. My ego, as anyone will tell you, is quite oversized tied to my force of will. I don't even remember your name or this post after I've left it until I get a notification and come back to remind myself. But I do appreciate you proving my point for me. Let me home in on something you said above; you said, "I can't write the code here because I don't have the source code." Exactly. You don't know what you are talking about. While I am an egotistical SOB, even I don't make the assumptions that you do. You simply assume that there are no problems, that to implement the immediate gratification you want is a snap. What wonderfully high opinion you have or yourself and your abilities; are we kindred spirits? The difference between us is that I will take pride in the things I accomplish and know for a fact. I don't assume that I'm smarter than the coders at the DEV. I don't even assume I know more about code than you do (although it is quite possible). What I do know is that there is no way for them to detect what settings people have on their monitors, mice, and keyboards. What I do know is that any attempt to curtail those Killers across all platforms is a very messy can of worms. Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
All you do is demand what you WANT and infer that the DEV are somehow lazy or have ulterior motives for not granting you immediate gratification. Believe it or not, I've been taking it easy on you. I'm trying HARD to be a kinder, more gentle Moundshroud. Until you can come to us with some facts, you are just another nameless, faceless voice quacking on the internet. You are a child throwing a tantrum, mad about some perceived injustice and screaming ME! ME! ME!
Hey respect for owning it. That's gutsy.
Not sure how you fathomed that little cheeky parenthesis: "(although it is quite possible.)" I have been able to answer your technical questions, you have not. See the irony? As for BHVR complacency with their updates. I promise you it's not as much work as they make it out to you.
I'm not calling you unintelligent. If this were a creative writing seminar you would smash me. You clearly have far greater vocabulary than me but don't pretend that you have an input against me in these technical discussions.
You didn't have to write all that out lol.
EDIT: I know you're taking it easy on me. I've seen the abuse you've sent to people here. Not cool.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041876#Comment_2041876
Mound mentioned making these changes work across all platforms. Is that possible you think? Console doesn't really offer much in the flicking department...
Yes.
You can program extra sensitivity on input. UE4 has this inbuilt.
As for other consoles, they share largely the same code. The main difference is the API between the consoles and pc is different. The dbd patches are almost the same between platforms. The only difference is the hardware rendering DBD between platforms and therefore must use its respective API to build.
As for flicking with a console they can implement higher software sensitivity with the analog stick. It is very simple to implement. However, this thread was about the J-flick exploit on Oni/Blight which can definitely be removed.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041850#Comment_2041850
Sure? Go right ahead. Although I still don't think you are being specific enough, i.e. you still don't explain how it is going to work in code, across all platforms, not do you explain the net effect on the Killers. I think it is easy for people (like you) to demand changes without having seen the actual code involved in this game. But if you are this miracle savant, and actually put the work up, perhaps BEhavior will see it and slap their foreheads and say "DOH! Why didn't we think of that." Or, your work and utter lack of knowledge of the situation will just continue to make you look even more foolish. I consider it win/win. If you are right, perhaps something will come of it. If you are wrong (99.9% likely) you will continue to entertain us with your little, silly screeds.
Lmao. Must've been a blow to your ego.
That was specific. I can't write the code here because I don't have the source code. Do you understand what that means?
Why does it always have to revolve around you might I ask? Notice how you say it's a win/win. Well as long as Mr. Shroud is happy then I suppose the world can keep turning. I also like how you completely and utterly ignore what I actually sent you. I didn't just pull that out of my ass. It was relevent. Again, you're out of your depth.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041775#Comment_2041775
You're a hoot. Since you think I'm so out of my depth by explaining the FACT that the DEV do not have the capability to somehow sense your monitor, mouse, and keyboard settings, why don't you explain exactly how (specifics) you want these two Killers altered. Please, by all means, provide EXACTLY how (within the code) this can be done affecting all platforms equally, but without making those two Killers totally ineffectual. I will be expecting you to show your math.
I love your writing. Truly. Hoot hoot.
You want specifics?
You start with setting threshold limits to altering velocity vectors of Oni and Blight's turning circle. They sit on a 3d plane and there is a mathematical function in the code that sets the ability to change direction on the x-y plane. The function would be a radical (which is a square root function) because the faster you flick, the smaller response you get in return. On a graph that looks like deminishing returns as x increases. x = mouse input for the flick and y= the turning circle (in radians) you see as Oni/Blight. Naturally they have two different functions but it's the same concept. I would have to see the source code to see exactly where the function would have its maximum threshold set as well as how I would approach writing the logic so it actually translates into their respective gameplay. My guess for a function that suits is
f(x) = squarert(x/5 . 10^3) , f(x) <= 1.57 (in radians)
This function would behave as if you flick with a ~12500 dpi mouse you will flick at 90 degrees and that threshold I set makes it a maximum 90 degrees. (just an example not sure exactly what figure would be a balanced yet fair flick for both the killers)
Are you sure you want to see this in source? What language do you want it written in? C++ or UE4 Blueprints are the only options for this game but I'm sure you don't understand how to read these.
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@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034867#Comment_2034867
>In a fighting game for example you both immediately and throughout the match have the chance to do damage to each other at any point.
You actually don't, and I think this is one of the key problems.
In fighting games advantage vs disadvantage states are a huge thing. In a fighting game it doesn't matter how well you play, if your in mid combo or are going up against a 50/50 how good you are doesn't matter, you got put in a position before that has you at your opponent's mercy and your just trying to mitigate damage at this point.
In DBD, such a absurdly huge goal of the game is to ensure the survivors never feel powerless. So you never get a situation where the survivor can't try something to get out of a bad situation, up until you lose the entire interaction anyway. Sometimes it takes a LOT of skill to pull this off, so at the mid game level DBD functions, but at high end the game breaks down because one side NEVER loses agency, and this is a critical game design flaw, because it means survivors never lose control over the game.
But that is just one part of this whole issue. The other core issue is that survivor base kit is just way stronger than killer base kit, and its stronger in ways you... sorta want but its not good once exploited. Case in point is "W meta." It sounds stupid because at the mid level it would be INSANE for survivors not to be able to get distance to start a chase with, but the issue is the math of gen time means once your really coordinated you can just... make it so killers literally can't win in a majority of maps and killer cases. The ones that ignore this tend to be so strong mobility wise chases don't even resemble anything like the base game.
In a fighting example here, imagine if 95% of the cast can't use throws or overheads, so if you crouchblock they never can open you up ever and the game is just inevitably going to go to timeout against them and as long as you jab them a tiny bit you always win. And then for that 5% of the cast they get to not only throw, but have a full screen projectile you can't jump over that requires you to perfect parry at a random point during the animation and which pierces blocks.
Loops might be a little too strong right now, but at least you can mindgame them. In the context of a loop and this 'blocking in a fighting game' example, most of the cast are what we would call 'honest' characters: They CAN open you up, its just hard and so they struggle but can still do absolutely fine at the top end. Its problematic in how it compounds with the killer basekit weakness overall, and how killers aren't rewarded enough for winning chases and how W is just so strong, but loops themselves are actually in a pretty ok spot.
The big issues I see facing DBD and general killer viability are:
Dropping chases/stealth isn't even a goal ever anymore, its just maximum time wasting using non-interactive systems.
Killers aren't rewarded for winning chases enough: Unhooks are too 'powerful' not in the sense they are too easy, but killer gets jack all if there is an unhook and they don't snowball, leading to a campy/sluggy meta.
Gen times can't get longer without the game getting VERY boring but killers just can't... spend time on anything without gens popping too fast. A killer winning a chase extremely fast at 45 seconds still probably loses because winning that chase doesn't stop 3 gens from popping.
The fixes here that would allow you to lower the power level of S tiers and make gameplay more diverse in general would be weird and controversial. Something like 'reverse bloodlust' where your faster OUT of chases so that you can still loop the killer and mindgame with em fine but if you just run over open ground they catch up to you absurdly fast, basekit 'Mini-pop', some way to block gens if your defending them, something that rewards the killer for hooks that don't result in kills or further downs, and something that slows the game down globally if the killer is playing well even if some gen jockey is just slamming gens would allow a lot of power to be moved OUT of killer in ways players often find annoying.
Like, if landing a hook is REALLY GOOD intrinsically, like say... permanently slowing that survivor's repair speed, suddenly you CAN do things like make the hook timer slow down if the killer is near and not in a chase, because the killer no longer NEEDS to either secure that kill or get a second down off that first hook, they already meaningfully got a tempo advantage off the hook. You now can meaningfully punish camping more than it already is. But in the current space the game is at you can't, and in fact all these anti-camping tools like BT actually force you to camp more because you need to be like 2 inches away from the hook to block a BT rescue or get something like a down out of it and you can't get NOTHING out of a hook because you gave up 3 gens for it.
Ultimately the killer needs more room to breath and 'slack' so that more killers are viable and super sweaty killer play not only isn't required, but no longer as rewarded. But in a reality where the survivors always have control and the killer only is rewarded with keeping people off gens now and forever, with no intermediate goals in the game, there is no room to do anything but sweat every chase, every down, every hook, every unhook.
And I get it, this all sounds crazy if your playing outside of a sweat squad and your a survivor main and never have seen one in action. I get it, the killer doesn't feel weak cuz when they win they REALLY WIN. This is a lot of abstract math nonsense as opposed to the in game experience where sometimes you do just get out played and blown out.
But that mathy nonsense matters a lot an affects the game a lot. For example, its BONKERS how much better slugging is tempo wise than hooks. Tempo wise your goal with hooking or slugging is to get survivors off hooks, but slugging is so insanely better at it: The time it takes to unhook a survivor is just the travel time to the hook, which means 2 survivors are 'incapacitated' and not doing gens for just that amount of time. Meanwhile it takes you time to not only go to the hook with the survivor, but pick em up and place them, so you lose time as a killer doing this to pressure others. If you slug, you don't lose any time, and it takes the survivor 30 seconds to get to the point they can instantly be picked up. So if you slug, you can pressure another survivor right away, one survivor isn't on gens for 30 seconds plus the time it takes for the third to reach them, and the third is off gens in the time it takes to reach them.
That is asinine, slugging should be a short term choice to instantly start another chase, but the fact its not just better but ridiculously superior to slug unless you think you can use the hook to gain tempo via camping/patrolling/whatever by sometimes over *two minutes* of survivor gen repair time is absurd. That is the kinda deep at the bedrock issue no one really thinks about that causes a lot of negativity for the killer and a lot of unfun killer strategies trying to mitigate this weakness of the hook for survivors.
Nice post. Thoroughly read through and it hits the nail on the head. You've done the research.
Some others here should follow suit. This is how it is.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2039981#Comment_2039981
@Moundshroud I was talking about this yesterday. Trying to ban people for using a gaming mouse or changing your monitor settings is really stupid. If they start hard capping turning rates for killers, it'll just increase the amount of people switching to survivor. If I have to use a slow turn speed to make others' feel good, I just won't play that game. Being artificially handicapped due to one group not liking something is just pure entitlement.
Good.
It's entitled to think you should have access to uncounterable movement that you can do all game.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2039897#Comment_2039897
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? I was CLEARLY talking about exploits that happen outside the programming and thus cannot be affected. The DEV cannot program anything which will detect the Player's mouse or monitor settings, whether or not their monitor provides a targeting system or adjusting hue and brightness. The setting on a monitor are not detectable by the DEV or any other game system either. They likewise can't see how you setup your mouse. There are also keyboards that can store a mountain of macros. Hotkeys have been a thing for a LONG time. Do you see where I'm going with this?
At no time did I mention (or care) about the turning radius of Oni or Blight. I was addressing the fact that macros set on a mouse, like settings on a monitor, are something the DEV can't control. But if you want to go down this rabbit hole, why do you think the DEV should hobble Oni and Blight for EVERYONE because there are "some" cheaters out there? And for the record, I don't play either Killer.
You CLEARLY weren't.
You're addressing a thread about Oni/Blight J-flicks and saying that they're using macros to achieve it (which is true). Don't twist your words how insecure are you?
I see where you're going with your new response. That's not what they are looking for to fix Oni/Blight J turn exploiters.
I'll say it again: you're out of your depth answering this question.
Yes you hobble Oni/Blight (a real stretch of it's definition good one Moundshroud) because it provides uncounterable play in chase with these two killers. The amount of players that do it is irrelevent. You're going to say what about all the survivor stuff that's exploitable. Fix it too. Stop enabling BHVR complacency.
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@ArchAbhor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2039029#Comment_2039029
Thats not true at all, if you cant get hits and downs gens will fly because the team has no other objective. Its up to killer to apply that pressure and they cant do that if the survivors play real safe
Okay it's not true.
That's all folks!
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@Moundshroud said:
Sadly, never. There are also monitors out there that provide crosshairs for Players; this makes throwers and shooters dead shots. There are also, as we all know, people who play with their resolution so they can see over and around terrain. There are people who play with the brightness and hue so they can make trying to hide nearly impossible. The reason none of these things will ever be addressed is because there is no way for the DEV to detect them, period.
The only people who know about them are the ones doing it, the sad, pathetic little worms who apparently have no self-respect. They know they only manage by giving themselves a competitive edge, but simply don't care. They look themselves in the mirror and it doesn't trouble them at all that they are actually inferior to the people they play against, and they prove it to themselves every day by cheating.
What you and I have to do is simply accept that they are out there, shrug, and go on with our lives. Take some solace in the fact that losers like that really aren't very good and you probably beat some of them every day. That must be particularly galling for them, to lose even with all the cheats they provide themselves. I smile when I think about that.
You're saying you can't program a way to limit the turn circle of Oni and Blight?
You're out of your depth here. You 100% can lol
That attitude is enabling BHVR to do nothing. The issue here is their complacency, not whether you can program the mechanics for Blight/Oni to limit their turning circle. It would take me an hour to program this if I had the source code.
Same goes for other technical exploits in this game.
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Nice reference.
When a killer respects a pallet this is what I sing:
Doo doo doo doo doo
Respector Gadget
Do doo do doo do do
Hoo hoo
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2039474#Comment_2039474
...aren't you a Blight main. His power is a massive middle finger to survivors that hold W. As some other killers that don't have good ranged attacks, instadowns or are Nurse and Spirit you might be struggling but that's more due to maps having terrible mobility options and no good way to cut survivors off.
There's always generators where no matter what approach you take will cut the survivors off when you approach. That's why I don't follow the shift w = impossible game logic. I just played bubba all day today and never had a single game where I felt couldn't win. I did lose some but was due to my misplays. I own them. That's the difference.
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@Jallybwan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2010786#Comment_2010786
"That's how the game was designed" isn't exactly an argument when I'm asking the devs to change an aspect of game design. And as for the second part, see what I said about motion sickness and accessibility.
You can't discount it as nothing though.
High FOV is a competitive advantage when chasing a survivor. Naturally, there is no reason to set your fov below the maximum.
What you're indirectly asking is for a perk to be added to killer base kit.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2039255#Comment_2039255
That's basically what we have now tho and people complain a ton.
MMR and Leaderboards are seperate.
BHVR should disclose a leaderboard of best killers and survivors but shouldn't reveal your mmr rating. This is how all other pvp multiplayers do it.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2039112#Comment_2039112
It's true even if the killer doesn't commit. In a deadzone created by a teammate? Firstly, the gen was probably finished so it's rare to happen in the first place. Secondly, hold W. Suddenly you also become an extremely bad chase to take.
Cut them off. If you can't, don't take the chase if it means losing an important gen. It's basic macro.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2039029#Comment_2039029
Playing safe is only detrimental to the survivors of the other 3 aren't on gens. If everyone is being productive when not in a chase and playing safe when they are, then it's the easiest win of their lives against all but maybe 3 killers.
That's only true if the killer commits. They don't have to. It takes 80s each to complete a generator solo.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2038593#Comment_2038593
"I was a Freddy main with the OLD one before the rework, and I loved that mechanic"
Oh, just like me then. That is nice! It is always a pleasure for me to meet fellow Old Freddy mains.
While I do agree with you to some extent, I still think things like proper Snare placement and Dream Projection mindgames takes skill. And, even if it doesn't, it is not enough to justify a nerf.
Nobody has complained about Dream projectioning in chase or cancelling it in chase or whatever. The problem is you've done nothing to create pressure with Freddy. It's also very easy to down players with freddy because he doesn't stop moving 115% setting up traps unlike some other killers who cannot global teleport as well.
He is also outperforming every killer statistically.
Sorry mate it's getting nerfed fair and square. It's shocking it lasted this long. Then again it isn't, this game is managed by BHVR.
What you have here is a killer as unfun to verse in chase as clown that also can win games easily unlike clown. You have your cake and get to eat it with Freddy.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2038466#Comment_2038466
Yeah, maybe some form of counterplay is a good change... as long as they don't gut her, of course.
"but I hope the devs take good care of him in his upcoming nerf :)"
I appreciate the optimism, but we both know they won't. I am afraid Freddy is going to get the "Billy treatment", or even worse.
I think Freddy won't remain in the A tier anymore. He's just too easy to play.
Expect a more fair interaction with BT and something gutted in terms of map pressure or chase power. Something like a prerequisite before a teleport or some nerf to the bloodpools.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2038934#Comment_2038934
It cuts both ways. If the survivors just hold W and predrop pallets then the killer can't really chase them because the chase is completely uninteractive and one-sided. So the killer has to resort to camping and tunneling in the area now cleared of pallets whilst hoping the survivors don't make it to the safe areas by holding W some more.
Yeah mate. So don't commit to the chase. Pallets are also a resource if you're getting them dropped quickly that is more detrimental to the survivor team than killer. You're going to lose your team the game if you predrop every pallet safe, god or whatever.
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@ArchAbhor said:
You pop 3 gens within the first 2 min of the game. If the devs wont balance the game properly then the killers have to salvage the match after survivors do this. These are tactics to spread pressure and force survivors to come to them and get off of the objective. It might suck from the survivors point of view but at that point blame balancing.
The real fix for this is to make it so that survivor objective cant be done so quick, or give killers better resources to combat the quick gen times. I'm not talking about perks. After the game is balanced then we can talk about punishing killers for bad behavior like camping and tunneling. Until then stop complaining
Nah you can do so much more about gens popping quickly.
You're very limited when saving a camped/tunnelled player.
There's a difference.
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@Aztreonam78 said:
I am really afraid if the Killers might get weaker players by doing this.
That's not exclusive to dbd.
You afk and purposely lose, naturally you derank.
If the killer wants to derank to smurf on lower ranks, so be it.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2037372#Comment_2037372
I'm on console :]
But thanks for the tip regardless
I have an xbox one s and do experience those issues. Not sure why they can't create a good stable console version. Silly.
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@TAG said:
Presentation is top-notch, but the Killer power itself looks like a pretty dece example of why Blight needs to bounce off a wall before being allowed to Lethal Rush. Plus, the perks seem pretty whack. Still, I'd certainly love to see more from this channel.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2037317#Comment_2037317
It certainly looks great, but I feel like it would be very difficult to see in when actually playing the game.
Oh yeah I agree with you, I meant the aesthetics.
No way that killer would be released that op.
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@OniWantsYourMacaroni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2037317#Comment_2037317
When optimization is an actual thing in DbD.
Maps like Red Forest with the rain is already dropping frames for me and things like getting hit by Noed or Sloppy Butcher even freezes my screen for a second
I used to have issues on more than recommended specs on steam. I went into the config and disabled v-sync. As well as capping my framerate to 144 on my graphics card settings for dbd. Haven't had any microstuttering from noed/sloppy/doctor shocks/clown gas etc. Worth a shot
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I've experienced a couple times where the flashlight has made the burn noise but the cone hasn't closed in and no killer blind. Oh and no lightborn.
It's like the lightborn effect but the killer isn't running it.
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@Pilot said:
I dig the cyan look.
Looks awesome. Reminds me of that nostalgic Macmillan estate blue vibe. Lightning effects are sweet. When does actual dbd get some ambience and dynamic weather?
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@Dizzy1096 said:
Survivors are allowed to spin on the spot at 200mph so I don’t see why killers can’t. Also the amount running stretched rez now is getting ridiculous. Let not forget those survivors that are also allowed to get fast vaults at windows designed to only give medium vaults.
Difference is one heavily progresses the game and the other doesn't.
Nice profile pic change. Suits.
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Interactive.
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@YourNightmare said:
YOUR BETA TESTERS !
We are players that have bought the game and we deserve quality. PTB is the platform where you can test your new features but the normal game should never be considered as a test playground.
We have paid the game, the full game to play it and enjoy it. So we deserve a few things :
- that you listen to the community when we tell you something, but seeing the state of the game you don't listen much...
- that everything works fine when you release a patch or a new feature
- that you don't change our game experience with your tests
Hire Beta tester as developers were doing 20 years ago or use your PTB.
While it's incredibly unorthodox to test on a live patch. I can't hell but encourage BHVR to do small runs of testing. Like the bloodlust experiment. It was random but stuff like that is a great way to make steps forward.
I do think it's unprofessional and opaque. They are pioneering this genre and have zero competition if you're looking at it economically. Makes sense they do what the ######### they want.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030970#Comment_2030970
Like I said, the main problem is that survivors simply follow w+shift paths in such situations. Two survivors on gen 1 for example, the other 1 on gen3. Even if you stand in center and visually control any of these gens, survivors would just leave the moment you head in their direction, then they would just return when you leave and so on. Same situation on the other gen.
>My point with that paragraph was that while there are safer gens in each map there is always enough unsafe generators in each map that will get you hit if the killer patrols it. 5/7 generators need to be completed meaning no matter what map the survivors must complete these unsafe generators. Meaning it's up to the killer to macromanage this is my point.
Yeah, they need to be completed and their completion should be possible, however at the same time it shouldn't be easy or free. So basically there should be a way for survivor to stand a chance if killer suddenly appears near them, however that shouldn't be as easy as I illustrated in the examples I provided.
>I have no arguments with OoO on Gas Heaven. That's ridiculous and uninteractive. Hopefully removed soon. It detracts from a pvp game.
That's one of the most extreme cases of w+shift problem and I really hope it's getting fixed soon too. My guess and hope is for reworked chase trigger mechanism
Yes it's a losing situation if ruins down and you have no mobility. I think that's okay for balance.
I would be for chase engaging much earlier if you want bloodlust earlier but imagine how good PWYF would get? How do you keep that perk fair? Also want to reiterate that you're still committing the same time to catch up realistically but you're already in bloodlust by the time you're at a mind gameable tile.
I don't recall you asking for a chase trigger buff. I thought you were wanting something along the lines of base movespeed increase out of chase for all killers but your suggestion is a fair qol change I think.
I wish we could've had as much as an in depth discussion on spirit. This debate was much better. Thanks.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030610#Comment_2030610
>I was hoping you'd say that. A three gen isn't necessarily a winning position for killer. You can still mess it up. A 3 gen in the corner of the map will always allow you to get cut off. I don't think building a 3 gen strat in the middle of the map is a good idea unless you're a prep killer with ruin up or something. Most 3 gens are in fact on one side of the map. Many maps have limited central generators which is in the survivors best interests to complete first.
There's the difference between messing things up and having no chance to do actually anything to win.
Midwich corridor gens is one example of such situation. Another example (As far as we're talking about 3gen, even though the problem isn't only about difficulty in pressuring such generators) is 3 gens being located in a "line.
For example, imagine Pale rose. One gen is between the shack and small boat. The other is near the corner and the shack, the last one is near withered dock (in the lowground). Here's a badly scaled scheme of Pale Rose.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/QLM9ANZJ1C6H/image.png
Two gens (first and last one) are generators that are impossible to pressure because survivor would just run away (either in the direction of the dock or small boat) and not only lure killer far away, but also waste a lot of theirs time. In both situations killer is approaching from the side that opposes the "open field" for w+shift and going from the other way is impossible, since you have literally no time to lose or you'll lose the gen.
You can project that kind of situation on any other similar map where such situation might occur.
In any case, killer is either forced to let go of gen and very likely lose or just waste a lot of time in vain for the same result, unless he plays hostage doc with ruin totem right in this triangle who doesn't care about chasing survivors and enjoys running back and forth for 30 minutes until survivors give up.
>There is also no map that does this. Keep substituting the numbers and the answer will still be: No. There is no map that does this. No matter what map it is, there are generators in worse positions than others for survivor. Getting cut off is a fundamental part of killer initiation.
Don't really get what your point is. Of course there are bad generator spawns, like the one in the corner of pale rose I schemed above. The point is that there's a lot of gen spawns on many maps like swamp, cornfields, mcmillan, red forest, etc, etc where survivor basically is completely safe as long as he doesn't trigger chase and follow a path which can't be cut because of the obstacles on the map (pale rose example, gen3, killer has to follow survivor instead of cutting their path because of the obstacle that can't be bypassed)
>Regardless of what position you're in the game. I'd highly recommend getting survivors off their bad generators. They're bad because if you start chase there, you're likely taking a hit.
The ones that usually pop first? Like I said, it's less about generators (which I used an example of how w+shift can be unfair), but more about a possibility for survivor not to trigger chase and thus get a lot of extra time for their team without putting any effort into it.
Another example of w+shift unfairness that isn't directly related to gens is OoO exploiters who find a huge obstacle (like ones in Gas Heaven) and run around them with OoO or do the same on second floor of midwich. This is getting fixed sooner or later, however this has been a thing for quite a while.
>Then we agree on that. No because there is no map where all the generators killers can't do anything to them. There's a reason why Otzdarva gets more stressed over losing one particular generator to another. He understand what a generator he can afford to lose is and isn't.
Guess so. However there's too much too "safe" generators and that's not really good.
As for Otz, I would be triggered too, if I saw last three gens being spread out or placed in such a way that I have to spend half a minute to reach each of them.
Firstly I appreciate the time and effort you put into this response. Nice diagram.
In that scenario you wouldn't be pathing like that you have LoS of all three gens in your diagram. Wouldn't it be smarter to position yourself in the centre or position yourself between the boat and jetty then corral the survivors into getting cut off? No offence but your choice of pale rose is like best case for killer. I don't see how you could lose as killer in that setup besides keys. Those tiles besides shack are not hard to get hits on. You don't take the longest route to the generator then towards the survivor. You take the hypotenuse to get to the survivor. Right?
My point with that paragraph was that while there are safer gens in each map there is always enough unsafe generators in each map that will get you hit if the killer patrols it. 5/7 generators need to be completed meaning no matter what map the survivors must complete these unsafe generators. Meaning it's up to the killer to macromanage this is my point.
I have no arguments with OoO on Gas Heaven. That's ridiculous and uninteractive. Hopefully removed soon. It detracts from a pvp game.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030631#Comment_2030631
You entirely missed the point.
Yes he did.
Back to our discussion, what do you respond?
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030493#Comment_2030493
Everyone is going for escapes as survivor and kills as killer. 2 kills / 2 escapes should be where the balance should be made. Unless you want Killers to not make kills or survivors not make escapes. What would the point of the game even being for survivor if they never had a chance to escape. The game should be equally fun for Killers as Survivors.
Maybe the rolls should be reversed. Killers should only make a kill in 20% of their games. I bet that would be absolutely acceptable.
I would just argue that statistics don't mean anything in such a volatile game like dbd. 20% kill rate means nothing ;)
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030524#Comment_2030524
>Okay so at a three gen perfectly centred in the map I agree you're no longer winning that match. Solution isn't to give up but rather take the chase and if you win that chase use that pressure to try for another down. Likely going to be a 4e in that situation dependant on hooks still available. That said, I'm sure mistakes were made for this match to get to this position and that's A okay. I want to point out here though that this is cherry picked/strawman/whatever. Your example is in a losing position as killer.
Perfectly centered was just an extreme example of unwinnable scenario w+shift can create.
Regardless, in almost any case of 3 gen triangle, there would be almost always one or two gens that are going to be a starting point for w+shift strats. Should I remind that 3 gen triangle is usually a scenario where killer has an advantage. I'm not even mentioning situations where survivors did well and had 2+1 or 3 gens on opposite corners of the map.
Committing to chase to the very end usually means letting go of last gen with everything that means: adrenalines, hope (the perk), opened exit gates and extremely aggressive tanking. Your only chance to prevent that is that if you commit to such chase when gens are not partially completed and even so survivor is very likely to lure you far away for you not to make it back in time.
>That's if the game has got to a point where these gens are the only ones left. There is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off. Period.
Who stops survivors from purposely leaving such gens? I'm not even saying that this scenario doesn't necessarily have to occur at last gen left, it can happen at 2,3,4 or 5 gens, in that case the consequences are just less catastrophic.
Also, "there is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off". Really? So if the hypothetical map spawn has only 1 gen you can cut survivors off, while all 6 other gens are spawned in a way that enables w+shift strat then it's okay? Your wording is terrible here or you purposely trying to substitute the concepts. Half of maps in the game feature a lot of w+shift spawns in every trial they are used in and the other half (with an exception of Gideon and Hawkings maybe) has such spawns in every second trial they are used.
>It's ludicrous to think a chase you initiate means you have to commit it if it's going to take 30 seconds to catch up.
Nobody commits to such chases, unless they are certain this isn't costing them the game which basically means the survivor is completely safe. There should never be such scenario where survivor knows killer can't do ######### to them without losing the game.
"Regardless, in almost any case of 3 gen triangle, there would be almost always one or two gens that are going to be a starting point for w+shift strats. Should I remind that 3 gen triangle is usually a scenario where killer has an advantage. I'm not even mentioning situations where survivors did well and had 2+1 or 3 gens on opposite corners of the map."
I was hoping you'd say that. A three gen isn't necessarily a winning position for killer. You can still mess it up. A 3 gen in the corner of the map will always allow you to get cut off. I don't think building a 3 gen strat in the middle of the map is a good idea unless you're a prep killer with ruin up or something. Most 3 gens are in fact on one side of the map. Many maps have limited central generators which is in the survivors best interests to complete first.
'Also, "there is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off". Really? So if the hypothetical map spawn has only 1 gen you can cut survivors off, while all 6 other gens are spawned in a way that enables w+shift strat then it's okay? '
There is also no map that does this. Keep substituting the numbers and the answer will still be: No. There is no map that does this. No matter what map it is, there are generators in worse positions than others for survivor. Getting cut off is a fundamental part of killer initiation.
"Who stops survivors from purposely leaving such gens? I'm not even saying that this scenario doesn't necessarily have to occur at last gen left, it can happen at 2,3,4 or 5 gens, in that case the consequences are just less catastrophic."
Regardless of what position you're in the game. I'd highly recommend getting survivors off their bad generators. They're bad because if you start chase there, you're likely taking a hit.
'Nobody commits to such chases, unless they are certain this isn't costing them the game which basically means the survivor is completely safe. There should never be such scenario where survivor knows killer can't do [BAD WORD] to them without losing the game.'
Then we agree on that. No because there is no map where all the generators killers can't do anything to them. There's a reason why Otzdarva gets more stressed over losing one particular generator to another. He understand what a generator he can afford to lose is and isn't.