Toblerone007
Toblerone007
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030481#Comment_2030481
>Those stats don't include DC's. Throwed games contribute to the statistics but no other game is invulnerable to skewed data due to throws.The kill rates are a much larger sample size than that. It would be insulting if BHVR gave us data from a couple hundred games. Try hundreds of thousands of games mate.
BHVR's stats don't consider disconnects or throws which occurs much more often. When I mentioned hundreds of games, I was obviously referring to certain individuals gathering data themselves.
I said it before, I'll say it again, killrates in this game don't matter. You can stand afk and make 4k with Bloodwarden or you can earn 9 hooks and get 1k because survivors escaped w/a hatch. This game is so extremely volatile in every stage, that judging by final result is simply foolish.
BHVR gave these stats because people asked them and nothing more. They themselves said not to trust given data because it might be and very likely is heavily flawed.
The only thing that more or less reliably shows the balance is the amount of hooks or gens done and what time does it take for/against certain killers to earn that.
>Yes so the killer begins a chase in a poor position. It's up to the killer to not commit. It's that simple. There is no instance where generators are in a position where the killer can't cut a survivor off.
- Three gens left, you have more or less good triangle (let's assume the distance between gens is from 20 to 32 meters)
- You play one of those killers who can't counter W+shift
- 3 survivors left
- Each of them sits on one of generators and does Shift+W strat every time you head in their direction
- Once you see it's a waste of too much time to do so and leave, they instantly return back to gens and the situation repeats. Basically they are always keeping ~20-26 meters between you and them so unless you decide to fully commit to chase, you have not a single chance to do any harm to them
What is the killer supposed to do to win here? Or is he supposed to give up? If your answer is positive, then I hope that you agree that when survivor is dealing with cheesy killer strats he's too supposed to give up.
> There is no instance where generators are in a position where the killer can't cut a survivor off.
Literally any open map where gens are in the middle or killer is forced to cycle between these gens in such a way that he physically cannot cut a survivor off because there's always a lot of room for them to run.
Or, another example, maps like Midwich with those long straight corridors and gens located on corners. Survivor spots you from far so you are either forced to find some very long "shortcuts" to get to them unseen (but not unheard) or you have to waste extra half of minute because this game's chase triggers ######### suck.
>It's ludicrous to think every chase you initiate means you need to catch up 30 seconds before the chase begins.
Who said EVERY? Stop creating strawman arguments, please.
Firstly I agree with kill rates not being a good measure for balance. There isn't a clear win condition but kills are pretty close to it for killer. If there was something set in stone for a win then there would be much better data and a win rate stat instead.
I must've missed the context on the hundred game sample you mentioned. My bad.
Okay so at a three gen perfectly centred in the map I agree you're no longer winning that match. Solution isn't to give up but rather take the chase and if you win that chase use that pressure to try for another down. Likely going to be a 4e in that situation dependant on hooks still available. That said, I'm sure mistakes were made for this match to get to this position and that's A okay. I want to point out here though that this is cherry picked/strawman/whatever. Your example is in a losing position as killer.
"Literally any open map where gens are in the middle or killer is forced to cycle between these gens in such a way that he physically cannot cut a survivor off because there's always a lot of room for them to run."
That's if the game has got to a point where these gens are the only ones left. There is no map where there aren't any generators you can't cut survivors off. Period.
Midwich is a badly designed map agreed. Probably where this is the worst.
Nobody said every. We'll take that word off the record. It's ludicrous to think a chase you initiate means you have to commit it if it's going to take 30 seconds to catch up.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030046#Comment_2030046
Where did you get "4ked 2/3rds of the time"? From these flawed statistics that don't consider so many vital factors like throwed games or DCs? Really?
"3 different people, if not more, keeping track of matches and survivors don't stand a chance"
Who exactly, how many matches did they record, how much information did they gather? I'm pretty sure their statistics don't exceed a few hundreds of matches, which isn't really that much of statistics to deduce winrates or killrates.
>There is no way that running in a straight line alone will do anything, you have Billy, Nurse, Oni, Blight, Freddy, Wraith, Huntress, Clown, Spirit, Deathslight and Twins that can all counter running in a straight line. That's more than half the killers. This argument is beyond stupid.
Firstly, nobody said that running in a straight line alone is a problem. If survivor just runs in a straight line and then ends up dying I wouldn't mind. It becomes problematic when it's combined with things survivors do in chase. The guy wastes 20-30 seconds of your time by running in a straight line, then he starts using windows and pallets. All this time he's pretty much safe from you and you can't do anything unless this guy is an idiot.
Secondly, you claimed that my argument is stupid because half of killer roster has no problems with straight line gamers. However exactly because HALF of the roster CAN deal with it and the other HALF CAN'T this is a problem and my concerns are valid. There should be no such thing as "I can run in a straight line and win half of a minute before the actual chase even starts without risking anything" against half of killer roster, especially if that half is generally not the best killers in the game.
Those stats don't include DC's. Throwed games contribute to the statistics but no other game is invulnerable to skewed data due to throws.
The kill rates are a much larger sample size than that. It would be insulting if BHVR gave us data from a couple hundred games. Try hundreds of thousands of games mate.
Yes so the killer begins a chase in a poor position. It's up to the killer to not commit. It's that simple. There is no instance where generators are in a position where the killer can't cut a survivor off. It's ludicrous to think every chase you initiate means you need to catch up 30 seconds before the chase begins. What good killer player honestly does that?
EDIT: Please read this one carefully: That last paragraph you wrote. Notice how you said half the roster can't deal with holding down sprint and the other half can. This argument is vice versa to our discussion on spirit. Who's to say you shouldm't have to change your playstyle to deal with holding down sprint and running one direction until you have to vault. I could argue to you that you need to instead leave chase. Like you said to me I have to stealth. (obviously stealth still doesn't work on a good spirit but I digress) I'm just trying to show you your confirmation bias towards killer.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2029785#Comment_2029785
So go leave this discussion if you lack something essential to understand how much time for such little distance it is, thanks. All your lasts posts have been direct and indirect insults and zero actual contribution.
Could say the same about you. If you weren't so snarky, I wouldn't be doing it.
My point is the distance you're gaining in that time is adequate. If the survivor is too far to commit that time to chase in the first place, don't chase them! This new bandwagon is ridiculous.
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@Mandy said:
Slugging/camping/tunneling are not against the game rules so people do not require punishing for these acts, DC'ing however is against our rules, which is why it is punishable with a timeout penalty.
Doesn't slugging the entire team until bleedout on purpose fall under keeping the game hostage?
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@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2026513#Comment_2026513
So if something is boring for killer the killer needs to get gud but if something is boring for survivor it needs a nerf. Certainly no bias in you is there.
The word 'bias' doesn't look good on you. Just saying.
I do understand that it's boring to deal with god pallets/windows. That doesn't discount the fact spirit has this issue for survivor.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027754#Comment_2027754
So you're saying there's nothing wrong in a situation where survivor can run in a straight line for ~30-40 seconds before killer finally catches up? Not even mentioning the situations where survivor just runs around a huge object where chase doesn't trigger and wins enormous amount of time without wasting any resources?
Just saying, the rate at which killer (usually 115%, 4,6 speed, the ones that suffer from W+shift thing) closes the gap between them and survivor is 0.6 meters per second. My math might be off, so I'll be glad if you prove me otherwise, but as far as I know that means it'll take 10 seconds for the killer to close the gap of 6 meters between them and survivor. You can do the rest of the math yourself. Oh, don't forget not to count bloodlust, because W+shift gamers are running outside of chase trigger range which is the main problem here, since bloodlust doesn't activate and doesn't prevent that kind of action.
10 seconds to gain 6 metres of distance if both survivor and killer are running in the exact same velocity vector. So what?
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027435#Comment_2027435
Yeah, exactly, no solution. You just have to accept that you lose a gen in that situation.
Now project that situation on 2, 3, 4&5 gens left.
I've seen a huge amount of 1k+ hours survivors who exploited W+Shift thing (gap between you closes basically at rate of 0.6/second which means it'll take 10 seconds to close gap of 10 meters, while they often start running at ~24+ meters distance between them and you) and I really couldn't do anything about it except trying to ambush them or catch them offguard pretending I'm going after somebody else, but it's pretty clear how rarely this would work.
You making calculations is not a good look on you. Even more so when you still bold it. lmao
It's incorrect by the way.
Why are you guys taking chases where you can't cut them off in the first place? Survivor movement speed and killer movement speed has been the same since release. Why is it a problem now?
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@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027385#Comment_2027385
In all their complaints about bloodlust and specific killers and add ons this is one fact the survivors seem to gloss over
Remove them then. You can't have one or the other though. Anything unskilled has to go. Which I'm all for.
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Twins
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@LadyOhhDalia said:
Hello! I’m sure the killer community will mostly disagree with me on this, but I think it would be nice to have an option for survivors to choose which killers they do not want to play against, even if it is limited to choosing just one. There have been days where I have played against pretty much only a ghost face or bubba, and it gets boring very fast. Not to mention, the notorious camping of the bubba. Yes, it will probably extend queue times, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Those that do not want to play against a particular killer can choose to wait longer for a different killer, but the extended wait encourages other survivors to just be open for any killer. I would wait 2 hours if it means not playing against a bubba again, just saying. Anyway, what do you guys think?
* they could even make it to just a preference to where they try to pair you with anyone but that killer, but you may still get them. Also, even if it was a straight veto, this feature could be turned off when not solo queuing.
Maybe when there are more players and a larger killer roster should they introduce killer bans.
Ban rate also makes great statistics for the developers too.
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Can't agree with your suggestion. Balanced landing already reduces stagger from falling when it procs.
If anything give the 4 seconds to Lithe or increase the vault speed with lithe when it procs.
Balanced landing should be left unchanged imo.
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Gday,
Bubba is one of my favourite killers to verse and I have many tips playing against him in no particular order:
1) Keep yourself near good windows. This one is simple. Learn your maps layout of windows preferably before your first chase or you will have to improvise your pathing.
2) Do not get caught out in a medium vault. Good Bubba's will get a chainsaw on you if you're forced into a medium vault. Learn how to setup fast vaults correctly, you'd be surprised how quickly you can setup a fast vault if you give up a small amount of distance.
3) Give an m1 if you have to. Remember once Bubba commits to a chainsaw, it takes time to cancel it or commit to it. Use this fact at windows and pallets. Don't be afraid to fake pallets because if they respect they start the chainsaw with zero momentum. On short loops this means you'll make it to the pallet in time and if Bubba has no addons likely doesn't have enough time to saw you on it.
4) This one won't work against a good Bubba but you know the very small objects like rocks and junk scattered around maps. If you're fully caught out try and run as tight as possible. Sometimes you can get the to tantrum which brings me to my next advice.
5) Once you are aware of what charge time addons Bubba has or hasn't get used to the distance to setup a fast vault that baits Bubba to commit resulting in a tantrum on the window. This one is my favourite because you force the killers hand and if your timing is ever so accurate you make the vault and get a tantrum. This buys you a huge amount of distance.
6) Learn the locker timing if you're caught out and your only option is to get into a locker. There's many videos online showcasing it but here's some pointers anyway. Make sure Bubba has already committed to the chainsaw (very important or he just gets the grab anyway). The timing is different depending on if he tantrums or normally finished the chainsaw animation. Both result in him lowering his chainsaw to finish which no longer deal damage but have different timing. The timing is important because if you're too early you get hit and if you're too late you get grabbed. Learn it.
7) If Bubba is camping and the hook is not in complete dead zone/basement then try to get as close as possible that he begins priming the chainsaw. There is a mechanic similar to Hillbilly where if he revs for too long he goes into tantrum. When bubba goes into tantrum he has zero stacks to chainsaw again therefore, get him to tantrum at the hook. You have to learn the timing here because you can get grabbed if mistimed. Once he tantrums, stay close and wait for the animation to end. As soon as he starts to lower the chainsaw you need to start the unhook animation. Once the survivor is unhooked he cannot chainsaw for 4 seconds. That hopefully is enough time to a decent enough tile to survive.
Good luck!
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@LordSturm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025520#Comment_2025520
"Oh no, he figured out I'm wrong! HE'S A TROLL!"
The dude is a troll though. He's not wrong.
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@HollowsGrief said:
I don't understand why it needs a 4s 150% sprint burst. Every other exhaustion perk other than Adrin and DH has a 3s duration which is more than enough to get away. Seems foolish to make one better than others, considering it's not that hard to camp pallets and get a stun; even if you are hit through the pallet the combined effect of the perk plus the bonus for being hit you could literally end up on the other side of the map, it's just silly, change it back to 3s.
Adrenaline is 5s. I think they made it 4s because you're locked in animation for the start of the sprint
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@gendoss said:
I will take anything over the Blight and Twins again... The chapter with Blight created ruin + undying and nobody played the Twins. The small PP build plagued the game for so long and it felt like we just had no content for 6 months because nobody plays Twins.
At least Blight was a great killer design. More McLean killers please. In fact the recurrent players on steam was double what it is now during the Blight release.
Yes a new map would be great too. Midwich is still the latest map.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2027111#Comment_2027111
I've had 6 huntresses today. All 6 were toxic and 2 had Iri heads.
I am on NA servers.
Even if I ran into a nice huntress as surprising as that would be, it wouldn't outweigh the fact that most of them are just the worst. I don't know what it is, even Leatherfaces camping is rarer for me.
Damnnnnn. That's rough.
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It is the most ridiculous killer thing in the game. As soon as huntress downs somebody it's also impossible to get a hook save if they choose to. If a twitch streamer is running it for practice, don't expect their stream to grow lol. They're bad at the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
To be fair, most Huntresses are toxic by nature. I dunno what it is with that killer but I've never met a nice one, they always slug for the 4k, they always proxy camp, they always tunnel off hook and right through DS, etc... doesn't help you are dealing with her wall phasing truck sized hatchets at the same time.
As for iri head it's extremely broken and overpowered so they bring it for that reason. They want an easy win. It's not really a complicated matter.
I don't know mate, in my region they do the exact opposite. There some sense of honour and integrity with skillful killers. Hardly have latency issues on my server either cos we're population dense near the server. Huntress is one of my favourites to play against, especially a good one.
I don't think I've seen iri head in a hundred Huntress games. I think the players gets it's overpowered. Not sure why Huntress hasn't got an add-on pass yet. It's been in the game since release. That's nuts.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2024841#Comment_2024841
This.
You don’t need 2000 hours in Nurse alone to dominate with her, you just need to be “good enough”. Some games you get lucky, some maps really work well for her.
It astounds me that people cry about how Spirit and Deathslinger have “no counterplay” when Nurse has literally none. You can dance, spin and zig zag around in front of her but at the end of the day you’re only hoping that she misses. At least with Spirit pallets and walls provide a solid barrier.
On the EU PC servers there are plenty of Nurses that are good enough. A lot of survivors just don’t have what it takes to play against a competent Nurse. Worse still is the fact that they bring the full gen slowdown perks like they’re running for a damn tournament and many slug at 5 gens.
People let it slide because they find it fun to run baby Nurses around but at the high level this killer is broken and you need swf to defeat one.
You hit the nail on the head with this one.
In regards to this thread how do you actually nerf nurse without changing the gameplay? While you can teleport through objects Nurse will always be a problem. Yes league of legends nerfed some of the most difficult champions that were overperforming high elo.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025923#Comment_2025923
Exactly, you think.
I disapproved all your arguments and you keep picking on words and doing other kinds of mental gymnastics. I won this discussion long ago.
Sorry guess this one's the last reply out of sheer pity.
Mate. "Disapproved"? Are you sure that's the correct term? aha
Call it what you will; that's the third time you've used the same one-liner. Yikes.
Oh you won? Well done dad didn't even hear the fat lady sing. You're sooo good at this sweetie.
I'll remember you when spirit receives her next change. I'll let you know I was on the old ruin nerf train, first spirit nerf, mori nerf, PH nerf and recent undying nerf train. I tell you I have argued with people who struggle to argue just like yourself. I'd produce similar arguments on reddit and here. I must not know anything. The only other thing that hasn't changed yet is the noed rework train.
You know nothin' Jon Snow.
Good luck, I hope you get it your way.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025631#Comment_2025631
You're so triggered, lol, calm down before contributing to the discussion
Alright this is last response then.
Nah pretty sure I brought a lot to discuss mate. Even with your vague answers at time, I can see Spirit's state means a lot to you. Each to their own. Still think she is unhealthy in current state.
A little annoyed with your snarky behaviour I was genuinely happy to have a discussion on spirit. You seem to have a premeditated response to everything I say though whether or not it actually answers the question.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025538#Comment_2025538
>That's fine the outcome is still a win for killer with that scenario. Lots of pvp games can turn at any given moment. I think if there was a clear win condition then it would be better to analyse the data. Currently most killers are between 2-3 kills average red rank. That's more of a killer team win rather than a survivor team win in my book. Watch your use of the phrase 'by definition'. By definition of what? lol awkward phrasing.
And none assymetric pvp games use such kind of stats as a measure of things. You picked on my wording, minor moments but ignored the main argument - judging by kill rate in a game where earning a "kill" has less than nothing in common with something being strong or not is a wrong approach in the first place.
I didn't even mention another main reason why killrate stats are flawed - they don't consider disconnects (early DC = death sentence for other survivors), presence of SWF, items, addons and perks used and many other factors that greatly affect the outcome. All that Killrate stats show is: Killer, killrate and rank. Nothing else.
>Where did you pull that stat from? aha
From the same place Spirit haters pull "it's a guess" argument.
>I'm aware that it's a distraction from the killer. That doesn't mean they're going to commit to searching. It begs the question: Why are you so against chase? You have this demeanour that you're a terrible player if you're good at chase. I don't get it.
Yet another masterful evasion of addressing the main argument.
>Stealth is a pretty clear cut very little micromanagement skill for survivor. That's why it's not replayable like chase. Many of the top killer content creators share an enjoyment out of chasing survivors. It's a huge part of the gameplay for killer and survivor. Stealth means not doing generators.
Being thrilled by killer passing by is pretty replayable, people just don't give it a try, because it's much easier to them to wait until killer is right near them and then run away with SB and start a chase.
>Audio. You're tracking with audio. You see tall grass movement too. You're going to say walk then. You can still hear breathing. A good spirit player gets very accurate with this.
Tracking with audio really works when survivor is injured. When they are not, all other sounds are usually overwhelmed by whoosh sound, unless you turn on your volume to maximum, but in that case playing spirit is harmful for your ears.
>Please stop using your one liner 'mental gymnastics' and please stop bolding words. Keep it civil
I'm calling things their names. You twist my words, pick on awkward wording, create strawman arguments and avoid answering my main points. You are also trying to make it person by indirectly insulting me (calling me terrible player for example).
>How is that provocative? What? Just say no lol
Alright, I'm saying No. I'm not going to waste my time playing with a person who is too stubborn to accept any kind of arguments or facts that contradict his view and who will twist even the most unfavourable things for him in his favour and call it a win. That would be pretty worthless, you've yet to prove anything on words, why do you think you'll prove anything in action?
You haven't given in an inch. And I'm stubborn.
This game is pioneering a genre so reliable statistics for balance is not kill rate. I agree. However, spirit is still performing better. In pick rate too.
What's the main argument? I'll address it next.
No it's not. I'm sorry but after thousands of hours I'm not thrilled by the killer running by anymore. Theres no way you can convince me otherwise there. I'm sure some players can get behind me on that.
You're still tracking with audio and downing with audio. Visuals are scratch marks too. You argued downside of phasing. There really isn't a downside. It's highly highly versatile whenever the survivor is near it healthy or injured. Naturally it's easier to track an injured player though.
I'm not twisting your words. I'm trying to address them. Name something I twisted and didn't say how it is. Dot point your main argument and I promise I'll directly answer. I do feel I'm not getting that same respect though. I am trying my hardest to take you seriously. Sorry if you took offense to anything wasn't my intent. Sorry.
Yeah so say no and leave it at that. No need to justify it. Was just an idea. You're really provoking me with that last line but I digress and will leave it.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025463#Comment_2025463
So the fact that Spirit stands still isn't an information to work with?
I could understand if there was nothing to tell you she's phasing, like she could channel her ability while walking and her husk would've continued moving after she started phasing so that there was not a single way to tell when she's likely phasing, but that's not the case. You already have a very obvious sign Spirit is very likely phasing which is the fact she stops moving. Even if it's just a stand-still mindgame, you can still play around it, unless you're one of those idiots who think running right in killer's direction is a smart idea in the first place, just by not taking "run in killer's direction" as an option.
Or you think that seeing killer's red stain and moving in opposite direction is a mindgame? That's not true.
Can you at least address it to what I've asked you? Give me something that's not a guess based off the fair definitions I gave you earlier.
There is nothing to tell you she's phasing. There is zero difference to her standing still and actually phasing. What? Even knowing if she's phasing still doesn't account for the guesses you make while she is in phase.
Please stop bolding text. It's making it really hard to take you seriously.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025440#Comment_2025440
Also,
"How are stats flawed? It's data. How BHVR uses stats is flawed I agree but it's data nonetheless. Don't discount it because it apparently shows good news to killer. It tells you how it is."
Stats that show killrate in one of the most volatile games in every single stage of it are flawed by definition.
Survivors can rush 5 gens without a single hit, open gates and then get bloodwardened on last quater of EGC.
Killer can get a perfect triangle on last gen, camp 1 survivor there and lose other 3 because they opened a hatch and escaped the situation that would've led to 4k otherwise.
Like I said, if you think otherwise, reconsider your opinion.
"If spirit is using phase correctly you really don't have enough time to go for stealth. You're giving distance in the hope the spirit messes up."
If survivor is playing correctly, he is fine 50% of the time against spirit playing correctly.
" Someone has to take chase dude you can't spend the entire game hiding as your solution"
Think outside of the box. Wasting time looking for stealthing survivor is also a distraction. If you combine stealth with chases, you'll give spirit a lot of headache and make her waste enough time. Especially if other 3 survivors are also not idiots thinking that chases is the only way to distract killer.
"I don't see the replayability in stealth and if it works on spirit why not do it on all the other killers"
And I don't see the replayability in running in circles, so what? Stealth works on all killers, it just so happens that killers like Spirit, who lack tracking and are forced to quickly traverse between gens as well as being basically blind, have much less time to look for survivors, which makes stealth effective.
" Being able to phase at 172% movespeed is already a very powerful ability."
You forgot to mention downsides, that are lack of vision of survivors. I guess you have no other arguments than mental gymnastics..
"Noticed you were quick to ignore my proposition to scrim. See if I fall for you stealthing during chase. I highly doubt it."
Why should I not ignore provocations?
"Stats that show killrate in one of the most volatile games in every single stage of it are flawed by definition.
Survivors can rush 5 gens without a single hit, open gates and then get bloodwardened on last quater of EGC."
That's fine the outcome is still a win for killer with that scenario. Lots of pvp games can turn at any given moment. I think if there was a clear win condition then it would be better to analyse the data. Currently most killers are between 2-3 kills average red rank. That's more of a killer team win rather than a survivor team win in my book. Watch your use of the phrase 'by definition'. By definition of what? lol awkward phrasing.
I want keys nerfed too but that still currently a win for survivor team but yes that's not balanced.
"If survivor is playing correctly, he is fine 50% of the time against spirit playing correctly."
Where did you pull that stat from? aha
"Think outside of the box. Wasting time looking for stealthing survivor is also a distraction. If you combine stealth with chases, you'll give spirit a lot of headache and make her waste enough time. Especially if other 3 survivors are also not idiots thinking that chases is the only way to distract killer."
I'm aware that it's a distraction from the killer. That doesn't mean they're going to commit to searching. It begs the question: Why are you so against chase? You have this demeanour that you're a terrible player if you're good at chase. I don't get it.
"And I don't see the replayability in running in circles, so what? Stealth works on all killers, it just so happens that killers like Spirit, who lack tracking and are forced to quickly traverse between gens as well as being basically blind, have much less time to look for survivors, which makes stealth effective."
Stealth is a pretty clear cut very little micromanagement skill for survivor. That's why it's not replayable like chase. Many of the top killer content creators share an enjoyment out of chasing survivors. It's a huge part of the gameplay for killer and survivor. Stealth means not doing generators.
"You forgot to mention downsides, that are lack of vision of survivors. I guess you have no other arguments than mental gymnastics.."
Audio. You're tracking with audio. You see tall grass movement too. You're going to say walk then. You can still hear breathing. A good spirit player gets very accurate with this.
Please stop using your one liner 'mental gymnastics' and please stop bolding words. Keep it civil
How is that provocative? What? Just say no lol
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025440#Comment_2025440
Mind telling me the difference between "guess" and "read"?
In our debates context:
Guess - Making a decision without any audio/visual/technical codes to base your decision off.
Read - Making a decision based off the audio/visual/technical codes presented to you.
Educated guess - Making a guess that is decided from previous occurrences.
Added educated guess because it's relevent to spirit. I get some guesses are better than others when you watch survivor gameplay against spirit. However, it's still uninteractive and at the end of the day - a guess.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2024650#Comment_2024650
reliably
what do you mean by reliably? You want something you can do that will work 100% of the time like you can against M1 killers? There's no such thing and that's very good thing about Spirit.
About your other points, that's what I was meaning by mental gymnastics. Statistics are flawed, if you think otherwise, then you should reconsider your point. If you do more than sticking to good tiles, you'll maybe remember you can make her lose you and spend time if you use stealth tactics to avoid spirits, just like you remember many other forgotten "drop chase" technicues that were widely used in 2016.
Sorry reliably is not the correct word my bad. I mean counterplay that's not a guess. ie an actual read. For example, I saw Billy charge chainsaw at x time so I know I need to take a corner at time Y. Bubba started chainsawing at the hook at x time so I know by time Y I can go for the unhook because he will tantrum. Stuff like that. Something you can use visual/audio to know something is the most correct thing to do.
How are stats flawed? It's data. How BHVR uses stats is flawed I agree but it's data nonetheless. Don't discount it because it apparently shows good news to killer. It tells you how it is.
If spirit is using phase correctly you really don't have enough time to go for stealth. You're giving distance in the hope the spirit messes up. Someone has to take chase dude you can't spend the entire game hiding as your solution. I don't see the replayability in stealth and if it works on spirit why not do it on all the other killers besides the obvious (doctor, scratched mirror myers etc). See my point? Being able to phase at 172% movespeed is already a very powerful ability.
Noticed you were quick to ignore my proposition to scrim. See if I fall for you stealthing during chase. I highly doubt it.
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@RhysTheDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2025192#Comment_2025192
Killer players that can't seem to see how BHVR ignored the whole other aspect of why totems are awful and inconsistent, they also completely forgot that ruin undying made low tier killers stand an actual chance against swf's
Does it though? I thought totem cleansing was most consistent with swf... If anything it should lessen the chance of it being effective long enough to win a match against them.
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@RhysTheDemo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2023828#Comment_2023828
No one here yet actually answered my question as to why the devs wanted to address what made the combo so strong yet conveniently no one speaks on why it also can be so weak, great to see even the comments have the unbiasedness of a twitter raver.
To be fair most of your responses were from killer players.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Dont want to sound rude, but why are you using Pallets against Nurse in the first place? I mean, you can stun her, but IMO it is not really worth taking the risk.
Nurse is busted, but the amount of really good Nurse players is very low, so you should have a chance in most of the games. But if you are camping Pallets against a Nurse, you are doing something wrong.
Well said.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
If this becomes meta it will kill the game. They need to give this perk the MoM treatment and nerf it until it’s useless.
Thanks for the quote. Storing that one away into the vault.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2022137#Comment_2022137
I've played against it and see others use it against slugging killers, the difference it makes is immediately noticeable. There's no real pressure gained from slugging if you have a few of these running around, better hope there's only one and they get slugged.
It renders slugging redundant which is one of the only things killers can do to win. I guess that just leaves tactical camping so gg.
And the nerve of people that still want BBQ nerfed. If anything it should be buffed to be on par with WGLF.
On so many threads you claim you need to be slugging constantly, tunnelling and camping. All the good stuff. While there are situations that it's the best option why do the best killer content creators win so much without?
Can you at least upload some gameplay to prove your claims have at least some merit?
I've argued before that on the league of legends forums you can check players statistics with two clicks and judge if they're a good player or not. Here we can't but your arguments are always the same heavily biased notions that killer is too weak. I just don't see it. I play so much high rank killer too.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2024600#Comment_2024600
Spirit is balanced if you actually turn on your brain and do more than just sticking to windows and pallets.
No amount of mental gymnastics can prove otherwise.
If there was nothing, but boring cat and mouse where mouse wins if it is equally as good as cat, the game would be dead long ago.
That's your subjective opinion but what my argument alludes to is statistics. Why does spirit perform well and better than others?
What region are you in? Do you want to have a scrim; I'll play spirit? I don't understand how spirit is balanced in your opinion. That pretty much means every killer needs to be buffed.
Last note, can you give me some examples where turning on your brain and do more than sticking to good tiles will reliably beat spirit? This means not making a guess. Don't give me an example of a guess. I can't count the amount of times I've gotten a free hit on spirit for an incorrect guess by a survivor.
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@Mandy said:
It's not on
When it will be turned on, we'll communicate that - as we have done in the past. But it's not used for matchmaking currently.
Is this the official answer? I can't find a source.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2023103#Comment_2023103
I don't recall many things being in the initial release, so what?
Point was throughout the age of this game, the idea of cat chasing mouse and earning your hits was a huge part of the replayability of this game.
When I play killer I have no ill will towards survivors using their 3rd person perspective to last longer in chase. I have no issue with having to force pallets by moving one direction in short loops.
As survivor I have no ill will towards the killer using the red stain in correct spots to force me to run the wrong direction and take a hit. I feel like if you remove red stain you're removing one of the most interactive parts of killer/survivor interactions.
Bloodlust is a little different because you can force yourself to take a longer chase to guarantee a hit even though you haven't necessarily outplayed the survivor. I fully get why it was originally introduced but in the bloodlust experiment it really showed how many tiles don't require bloodlust anymore. T1 is definitely needed for some stuff still but I digress.
Spirit release kind of turned this balance on its head with how much advantage extra you have on her compared to other killers. How do you keep the base game balanced with this killers kit as is in the game? The players frustration with her current state is firstly in the masses and secondly makes total sense. I cannot understand where you're coming from if you feel this killer is balanced currently. I will say I've played her a lot and I get she is great fun. I can't help but feel pity for some of the survivors I've versed with her cos I can tell they're good survivors that made an incorrect guess. It's that simple.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2022868#Comment_2022868
No, I don't want spirit to become some F-Tier killer, all I'm asking for is some kind of hint that she's phasing. I don't want it to be overly obvious like what happened when she was bugged, but at the bare minimum just a small audio cue telling the survivor that the spirit is phasing.
And don't bring whataboutism into this, I absolutely hate dead hard, OoO, haddonfield, and all the other stupid stuff there are on the other side and I'd really like it if they were nerfed, but just because those things are broken doesn't mean that Spirit is a balanced killer. The whole problem with Spirit is that you have to guess if she's going to phase or not, and despite what you and others may think, there isn't any real counterplay to it (unless your using iron will and the spirit isn't using stridor). It's a guessing game where the odds are stacked heavily against you pretty much ensuring that if its a good spirit you get screwed over quickly.
And stop with the petty over generalization. I could say stuff like "Killers are never happy unless every map in the game has no pallets or vaults and they can instantly win the match whenever they feel like it." But I won't because it isn't true. Most people, me included, just want a fairer chance against her. Look at Blight, Oni, and old hillbilly. Those killers are very strong but also offer up a fair amount of counter play ensuring that both sides have a fair chance against each other. No one complains about them, despite the fact that they're strong because they have fair counterplay.
Well written. This guy has heavy heavy bias towards killer if you've read his other posts and discussions. I once said to him the game would look like the d day landings if he was on the balance team. Thank everything good he's not.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2023099#Comment_2023099
You can read a spirit, play her and you'll learn to do so reliably.
Regardless though do you think it's fun for most of the other killers? where a survivor just runs in a circle over and over again and then drops a pallet on your head? and then runs to another to do the same thing over and over again? there's a reason why players especially at the high ranks are moving towards the "unfun" killers and away from the killers survivors enjoy, because having your friends hit gens while you just drop pallet after pallet wins more games than it should and a lot of killers are powerless against it
Learning to read the spirit is vague. Give some specifics and I'll carefully explain to you how that is a guess. Sorry mate but running killers is the best part of the game for me and a lot of other players. It's not going anywhere.
Nah that's too general of a statement for high ranks. I see spirit a lot yeah but I'd say 2/3 games are fair game killers.
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@JediWithASniper said:
You have good nurses, and insanely good nurses. Even against insanely good nurses you should have some matches where you get more than 12k points. On the regular good level nurses, you should have plenty of high scoring matches. Nurse is difficult to play against because you have to throw everything you know about chases out the window.
True.
Against those insanely good nurses you spend most of your chase not being scored boldness. So even a really good performance against nurse can finish games at 10k or less bp. feelsbad
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@Dizzy1096 said:
And this is why it’s ridiculous everyone complains about Spirit and Freddy but not Nurse. Nurse has less counterplay than Spirit or deathslinger.
Also killers like spirit, slinger, pyramid and yes even freddy often have to sweat for their wins. Nurse is harder to learn than all of those that much is true but when you reach a certain point with Nurse its actually easier games and victories than with any of those other killers.
Probably the sheer higher player play rates of those other objectively strong killers. Top the fact they're easier to play too. People will complain about something that is more recurrent than once off.
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@SilentPill said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2019200#Comment_2019200
I have played this game for ~4 years and have never faced a mint rag hag. I could probably count on one hand the amount of rusty shackles games I was the survivor in.
I see hag maybe once a month, if that.
While I agree I hardly see Hag.
These addons are without a doubt overpowered on a competent Hag (mint rag, rustry shackles etc.). Not to mention how incredibly unfun it is to verse I hardly see anyone sadistic enough to record gameplay.
Should be nerfed even though it's not popular.
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@Zeus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2022433#Comment_2022433
I mean if he has his blood fury ability all the time, he'll be S+ tier just because of how strong it is. I was specifically talking about his ability and not the entire killer in general.
This is true. Those who have mastered his power prove his power is S tier. If you get found there's very little structures that will let you last more than ten seconds. Unless of course it's topknot which is definitely overpowered.
Overall a balanced killer though despite the hate I have towards having to hide and hold m1 to win.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2022868#Comment_2022868
The most hilarious thing is that people are perfectly fine when M1 killers are forced to mindgame and guess survivor's movements (while survivors use their 3rd person cam and red light advantage), but go completely nuts when killer gets that kind of advantage and they lose it.
Survivor's hypocrisy at its finest.
That is something set in stone since the game release. Killers move faster to compensate. What's changed?
I don't recall spirit being in the initial release.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
Why do people act like it’s a fact she needs massive and obvious counterplay? So she can become the next Demogorgan?
Half the things ok the survivor side, maps as well have very little counterplay and killers have to learn to live with it. Just use pallets and windows and learn to read Spirits. Its like survivors arent happy if the counterplay is anything more demanding than “press space bar to drop pallet for complete safety”.
It's because it's no fun playing go fish with spirit. People come to play dead by daylight. You can't read a spirit; you cannot see them. The counterplay people want is much simpler than pressing space bar. It's as simple as being able to react to her phasewalk which you cannot currently do. You have to make a guess. ( I will admit some guesses are better than other sometimes) If the spirit is competent, you're ######### lol.
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NOED needs a rework but I don't think this one is it. Have a read if Otz' rework. It was something like a token per unique hooked survivor that has infinite time to be used end game. Can't remember if it was to stay hex or not. There needs not be a timer because survivors will just hide it out.
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Moris should be removed as offerings. Yellow one is basekit and provides a bp/iri shard incentive for getting a 4k. Everyone gets refunded bp for what they spend on ebonies and ivories when they were overpowered.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2021932#Comment_2021932
So far as I can tell, the closest listed server is in Singapore. I remember a lot of Australian players freaking out when the servers where first introduced.
Apologies if this is no longer the case @Zozzy
Yeah originally wasn't going to be an Australian server (they cost a lot go figure). Was enough demand that they decided to add Australia to the server list.
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@Dizzy1096 said:
Its not just hatchets, Head On is busted too. At least hatchets are moving so latency is a thing. I dont get how head on gets bigger every update and now it reaches about 8m in front
Add another count to the Dizzy converting the thread into killer too weak.
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@Zarathos said:
Its odd because despite having these hitboxes huntress still has one of the lower kill rates. At this stage her wind ups and hatchet velocity speeds are dependent on the width and ridiculous aoe. What scares me is the thought that they get the hatchets right and not bother messing with her hatchets wind up or hatchet velocity speed and were down another killer. Last I checked the billy changes and nurse changes destroy the playrate they once had and has cast them pretty far into much lower play rates. Which is a shame because nearly all the killer above are way more fun then playing against a freddy, clown,hag or spirit.
It's because naturally huntress is difficult and not all Huntress matches have lagging killers. Makes sense the kill rate is lower.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2021873#Comment_2021873
So just screw all my homies in Australia who don't have a Dedicated Server and get 250 ping at best?
Seems weird to alienate a whole continent but okay.
Australia has a dedicated server. I live in Perth.
..and yes if you have 250 ping you shouldn't be having an advantage over a player with 5 ping.
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Unfortunately while having low ping to the server won't help you against a high ping huntress you won't be able to play reactively.
They would have to change the netcode to server calculating hits rather than the killers client. Should of been done with the introduction of dedicated servers.
Having a good connection is always better in any other pvp game (besides dark souls and p2p games). Dbd is an exception to this for some strange reason. Sure lagging killers will struggle to land hits but tough luck.
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WGLF did nothing before its buff. Nothing.
There's nothing wrong with this perk it was received well when it got a buff.