Toblerone007
Toblerone007
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015218#Comment_2015218
At least you admitted you had no actual interest in evidence and just wanted to discount a claim you don't like I guess...
I don't like the stats they release, because they are wildly incomplete. Without any breakdown by playtime we can't tell how much of the killrate is due to noobstomps. Without stats on hook states we can't really tell for certain how well suicides impact it, and have they even mentioned whether or not they consider a dc a kill? Because they give points like they do, but the result screen shows the dc.
It would be like me saying "I buy 2 bags of dog food per day" sure it seems like a ton right? Maybe I eat it, maybe I just don't understand money, maybe I'm a hoarder? All those are possibilities, but if I add in the context of "I run a dog rescue" then the food purchases make a lot more sense. (I don't do either btw, just a random example)
No arguments there. It's the only real thing ever released though which is why it's got so much attention.
Hopefully uphill from here.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015127#Comment_2015127
It's anecdotal, but everything on this forum is.
Here are the latest threads created in the last 24-48 hours of survivor mains talking about how often their teammates suicide or disconnect
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/233792/people-refusing-to-play-the-game-against-certain-killers#latest
I know there's no proof. I asked the rhretorical question to discount the claim.
No need to send me two threads from upset players. The only thing that isn't anecdotal is when BHVR gives us stats about the game. Which I would very much like to see more in every q & a. Hell release match history or something we can access.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/234243/what-makes-kill-rates-so-high
Kill rates are high for a much more simple reason that nobody really talks about much. There is a bias built into reading these Stats flat. Like a lot of video games, there tends to be a lot more Newbie Players than seasoned ones. New people come and try it out, play for a while, and then move on. While in the so-called Potato Ranks, things are definitely Killer-sided, because the main strength of Survivors is teamwork. Thus, as Players become more seasoned, the balance of power shifts away from the Killer (like a see-saw) to the Survivors.
So, if more people come, dabble and move on before truly becoming seasoned, it creates a situation where Kill rates are higher, but that doesn't mean the game is poorly balanced. It just means the statistics are flawed from the get-go when you look at flat Kills because it isn't taking into account the tides of Players flowing in and out. The DEV do understand this, however, and don't think it is their job to try and explain it to the rabble (and I don't mean that in a negative way). Most people don't understand statistics and read numbers entirely out of context, or only in the context that appears to support the argument they constructed.
Kill rates are fine. If the data was published broken down in a way that delineated Players by "hours in the game" you would see a very different story, graphs that could tell a much more accurate tale indeed. The problem of balance, in this game, is the sheer volume of variables. We all want perfect balance, but that is a utopian ideal, and not possible. What they have achieved is remarkable all things considered. Things could be done better, but it would require a fundamental change in how people are matched up, one that is at odds with their desire to keep Ques as quick as possible. Better matching, by default, means slower Ques. We can clearly see (and feel) which priority they have chosen.
There was also a red rank statistic published too.
It showed trends that were indicative of correct data. ie Nurse kill rate increased dramatically.
What I don't understand is this see-saw effect when all the data was an upward trend for kill rate as ranks increased. Do you mean the smaller sample size 4 man SWF games as ranks increase?
Of course it's not solid enough to determine game balance but there are statistics BHVR could publish to us that is. 4 man SWF, very experienced player statistics etc. etc.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015041#Comment_2015041
I dont understand. Why shouldnt it be removed?
When you remove it, both sides cannot use it.
Do you also support killer clients no longer calculating hits? So use of VPN high ping and lag switches no longer work? Also bad connections in general no longer providing an advantage.
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@Alex_Splicer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015082#Comment_2015082
Pfft that's funny.
Because you like it?
I dunno, I ain't a dev don't complain about an actual bug to me; we're talking about how you think NOED is OP.
It's not a bug, just what the perk is. Up to 50% reduced moaning.
Was just making the point that perk names aren't intuitive of what they actually do.
I don't think noed is OP. I do think it's unhealthy for low elo though. Just my opinion.
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@Tsulan said:
People suiciding on the first hook because they don´t like the killer/map/offering/weather/etc make the kill rates high.
Proof?
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@Pilot said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015057#Comment_2015057
Cute of you saying that you don't know the forum rules and that your comment was nothing more than a biased statement. I bet you don't even know what YOUR definition of 'toxic' is in your statement.
You get outplayed a lot & blame survivors for your lack of skill, don't you? and I'll quote @Toblerone007 on this one: "I think you're generalising and underestimating survivor content creators though. Using meta perks doesn't make them bad at the game."
We are free to discuss as long as there are boundaries.
For example I am free to give my opinion on Tru3 / Otz whatever it's good or negative as long as I don't insult them and I'm being respectful. As far as I know.
To take it one step further. I'm gonna use League of Legends as an example.
When any League user posts on the forum about balance their game statistics, match history, champion preferences, win rates, kd ratio, cs scores are visible to all players and forum users. If somebody makes a claim for balance, players instantly will check their account. As soon as they see Bronze IV their argument is instantly invalidated because they're not good at the game.
The most frustrating thing here is that you have no clue about the skill of the forum posters here. It's so hard to assess each killer/survivors skill level when they make a post/rant or whatever. When you argue with someone here who just doesn't understand some high level techniques or even some mechanics you get these brick wall responses. It's fine to be bad but if you are, you really shouldn't have an input to how the games balances. There are exceptions. You can have low elo stuff in the game that's terrible high elo that has merit for change. Take old ruin for example.
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@YourNightmare said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015046#Comment_2015046
Don't try to explain how stats works to those guys, they understand nothing. I have tried for months they still don't understand. At this point it's a problem of diploma and courses, nothing you can do about it.
They don't understand that red rank stats, taking in account 100 thousands trials would negate any "special events" as one killer winning 100% of its trials as on those thousands and thousands trials there will also be some killers loosing all their trials which would make it balanced in the end.
They think it's possible to throw a dice 1 million times and get the number six 100% of the time.
And if they understand this, then we would have to explain them that skill repartition would follow the "Normal Distribution model" even in exclusive red rank trials... Well never ending stories. That's what happens in democraty, when you let everyone and anyone talking while they haven't any knowledge on the subject.
My breath does feel wasted, definitely. There has to be some form of rebuttle for this cess pool you know? Like the Jedi vs. the Sith. I've noticed that it's the same names, same misconstrued information being regurgitated here and you got to stop the spread. Like watch me right now I'll make a 'killer good survivor bad' post here and get 20 upvotes. I do the same on reddit and I'll get downvoted to oblivion. There is a cult following here for sure.
Loved how you touched on political economics and statistics. You could show thousands of trials plotted in a binomial distribution showing that spirit and freddy sit on the outer quartile of kill rates. No but dude those killer players must be better players than every survivor player in their ranks.
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@Alex_Splicer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/233921/noed-is-so-infuriating
I just have one thing to say...
The perks name.
" No ONE Escapes Death "
That should include you.
Because I might want that last person gone when it's a lengthy game and I know I deserve the 4 k for once in my life.
Just like survivors claim they do enough to leave when hatch spawns.
It's silly that keys or Mori's, the killer gets the bad end of it all and displeases the Entity with a derank. It just makes the game short af.
Yes but the perk no mither is called no mither.
Why am I still moaning with this perk?
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2015037#Comment_2015037
that you'll die rarely stops people. that's the thing, I guess: people are so set on 'doing gens' that they just... ignore ?... all factors that say that it's a bad idea.
whether they are the ones with the trap or a teammate. it's bizarre to behold.
As for the 'not get knocked down' @Pilot : I'd say you simply can't be put in the dying state from being injured. you can still get the injured state, maybe.
You won't possibly escape though? Like do you mean when the trap hasn't activated yet? As soon as one gen has popped you're 100% forced to take it off.
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@Shoottokill_Shinsou said:
Because a single survivor is 25% of their team. Meaning that they should only have the difficulty of killer divided by 4. It isn't fair to have a killer that doesn't take skill, when killer is more powerful than the survivors and doesn't take extra skill to compensate. A powerful character that doesn't take skill is never fair. It's fine if a braindead killer is like wraith or doctor, because they are weaker to compensate.
That's a bad metric to assess difficulty. The only skillful interaction with survivor is in chase. Perhaps timing an altruistic play (perfect timed hook save, slug pickup, flashlight save etc.) falls under skilled survivor too. These interactions aren't 25% difficulty of killer; it's just the occurance of these interactions are lesser than killer.
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@Yamaoka said:
Your idea of "balance" is off.
Balance in any PVP game = the better player wins.
If I outskill all my opponents (just theoretically) even a 100% win rate can be balanced.
Making it so I artificially lose to worse players just so a match ends in a 2k no matter how bad they play is not balanced.
Conisistent 100% win rate should push you to the 0.01% of top players which then will bring your win rate to 50% in a perfectly balanced pvp game.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
Various threads have been dedicated to Pig's high pick- and kill-rate.
They pretty much all fund two main factors:
- A lot of pig players will tunnel someone with a trap on
- a lot of survivors will pop gens when someone has a trap on
The easiest solution should be:
If you get a fancy hat, you can not do gens, but you can also not get knocked down. Sure, this doesn't stop your teammates from doing gens, or you from abusing it to bodyblock (after all, you still need to get that thing off), but I'd say at bottomline it could make Pig games a little fairer?
Well you already can't really do gens with a reverse bear trap. You will die. Remember, the timer pauses if you're in chase.
I think to simply fix pig would be to remove the jigsaw box rng element firstly as well as make the timer pause off pig's proximity so she can't proxy you in stealth until you die. It's hard to make reliable data of a killer that relies so heavily on good rng.
I've had countless games where I've been forced to remove the trap and died on the fourth jigsaw box. Is it my fault? Of course not but that says the Pig has killed me statistically.
Pigs ambush is a great power is very versatile on short loops. I think Pig's biggest issue is the slow crouch speed. It isn't fast enough. Buff that.
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No idea why it's not implemented.
When a survivor or killer dc it's game over.
Except if you're survivor you have to play out the doomed game (if the killer is competent).
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@Dizzy1096 said:
What I find funny is how all of the “toxic” big name survivor main content creators that think they’re so good and have their fans calling them “teh bestest surviv0r evar!!” All use stretch res as it destroys any chance at mindgames. Stretch res and second chance perks galore, really shows how many of these people are carried.
Examples?
Stretching 4:3 resolution should be removed. You can't stop people stretching resolution but you can program the game engine to fix the field of view and checkerboard render to stretch resolution. This is what Source engine games do. It's for intergrity.
I think you're generalising and underestimating survivor content creators though. Using meta perks doesn't make them bad at the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2012126#Comment_2012126
You still can use trap and stealth killers. Hag is fine regardless, but Trapper just can't place a bear trap in someone's face without expecting players to know about it. This is already good practice for Trappers most of the time because even one survivor knowing about a trap is usually enough for it to be disarmed (the one exception being aggressive traps that help in a chase). Wraith is actually invisible at a distance now and Ghost Face and Myers are still going to be stealthy enough to get in close, especially if you use their comms against them (e.g. by faking like you're Chili-ing a gen and then circling back to the hook). Heal speeds are 16 seconds base or 20 seconds with Sloppy and healing requires a medkit or a teammate (and therefore double the time wasted). That is plenty long enough for killers like Wraith to get value and that's exactly how I like to play him.
This game would probably be dead without SWF. You can paint it as greed, but it's clearly the right decision for the game to survive long term. Many people like being able to play with their friends and would probably find another game if that were taken away.
Queue times are not directly dictated by balance. At the end of the day it's all going to come back to fun. Some players enjoy earning extra BP, chasing, and feeling powerful. Some players enjoy playing with their friends, better performance and escaping from something powerful. Some players are going to be more turned off the stress of playing killer or mean people in the chat, while other people are going to be more turned off by the boredom factor of holding M1. There is no reason to expect that a perfectly balanced game would have a perfectly proportional amount of killers and survivors. One side might just be disproportionately more fun to the whole player base. In that case, the answer isn't necessarily to swing balance back the other way; that could just be counterproductive, especially if the game actually is reasonably balanced already. A better answer is probably to figure out what isn't fun about playing killer and to address that. For example, if the toxic post-game chat is scaring people away, just remove it. If people are incentivized by BP, add a BP bonus for playing the side with the shorter queue times. If people actually do like playing killer but are just frustrated with how bad the performance is on that side, prioritize improving performance. If people get turned off of killer after getting stomped too many times by stronger players, prioritize improving matchmaking.
Balance is a factor, because it does relate to how much fun people are having, but killers are not underperforming on the aggregate compared to where they were historically. If so queue times would have been absolutely unbearable back in the first year or two of the game's life cycle and should actually be better now, and if so it would be very surprising for kill rate to be 12 points higher at red rank; in theory that's where those OP SWFs should be, so all signs point to god-tier SWFs either being rare relative to the red rank player base as a whole or not as strong as they're made out to be. The "SWF is OP so queue times are bad" argument just doesn't hold water.
You're right and it's much harder to accept you're bad because you're playing a different role unlike symmetrical pvp games. It would be interesting to see the gameplay of these 'SWF is op so queue times are bad' debaters.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2012397#Comment_2012397
These arguments are stupid, i'm sorry but i'm tired of hearing it.
Camping and tunneling are both terrible and need to be fixed too. This game is a ######### mess.
Which part?
I just proof read everything and I can't flaunt anything.
Sorry you're tired of hearing it but it's true. You even said camping is terrible and needs to be fixed. Gen time increase will definitely indirectly make it a more viable tactic you can't deny that. What does that do to the health/integrity of the game?
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@Dizzy1096 said:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/943057948
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/943057949
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/943057950
Marth & crew are back at it again, showing the pretty good job so far by the balance team.
Nerf Spirit and Freddy though right? they're op.
Fun fact you can have a gen done and a good chunk of work put into others before Freddy even has gains his power via survivors falling asleep.
Remove bnp, only allow sabotage with toolboxes and remove prove thyself. Base gen speed is fine as is. If it increases, camping allows to sacrifice a survivor and still have a chance to win. The timing is all survivors have to be on gens to escape a camping killer immediately.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2012478#Comment_2012478
In over 5500 hours I never had a game like this. The only time where Gens got done really fast was when the Killer was afk.
I have never had a Killer game were Gens were done that fast.
And lets face it, most Killers in DBD are just bad. If even I can get to Rank 1 and 4K quite consistently, players who are complaining that Killer is hard must be worse.
But as I said, now we pretend that this is happening "every game". And players here lose "every game" "only because of SWF". Meanwhile, a strong Killer like Oni or Nurse slugs the whole team in 2 minutes "The Survivors were just bad".
If Killers lose, its the games fault, it Survivors lose, its the Survivors fault. That basically sums up this forum.
Exactly right. In other pvp game communities these attitudes would be cut down faster than gen speed is apparently.
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He's very level headed when it comes to game balance. He understands what keeps survivor players coming back and demonstrates strengths of killers against good players that doesn't follow the bandwagon that killer is unbelievably weak as is custom here. He pushes himself. I appreciate it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011859#Comment_2011859
We're just going to ignore the fact that there are things you can do to balance the game that nerf SWF and buff solos? Like, giving solos more information for free, letting them do pings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPukUi7Oz3g
And then, you can slow down gens somehow.
Still have to be careful about increasing generator completion times. Reason being is camping and tunnelling is much more effective if the survivors can't finish all the generators in time and escape then there is no reason for the killer to leave the hook.
This is why I suggest instead of increasing the time, put instant regression for kicking the generator in the game. This way an early game camp is still punished the same and the killer has real incentive to leave the hook and real incentive to kick generators with survivors around that generator.
As for three gens popping at the start I suggest properly learning spawn points for survivor. With the timing of generators popping according to above comments, knowing survivor spawns will help identifying generators they're likely on. Corrupt is also a great perk to stop terrible early game and allow the killer to commit on their first chase more.
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My advice for blinding killers on console is to have your camera in position before activating the flashlight.
If you watch csgo gameplay you notice the players keep their crosshair at head level at all times?
Try to do that with your dbd camera at killer blind level. Differs for different height killers naturally.
I play primarily PC but when I play on console sometimes took me a while to get a hang of the flashlights. I did the aformentioned.
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@Yords said:
These are just a few things I have in mind to buff legion. I want the ideas for legion to buff his lethality and lessen his punishment for misusing their power. The reason I want to buff their lethality to a certain point is because feral frenzy when used right has no counter other than holding m1 and I don't want to make a killer that is strong with no counterplay.
Keep in mind these ideas are just ideas and can be changed for the better.
Tweaks to the Legion's power:
- The Legion no longer loses a percentage of their power when hitting a survivor with a basic attack, I am not sure why this is a thing, but it is.
- When being stunned while in feral frenzy or missing an attack, the Legion is knocked out of feral frenzy and loses only 40% of his power. Feral frenzy begins to build up again as soon as the Legion comes out of stun.
The main changes to the Legion's power (Feral frenzy):
- Each time you inflict a survivor with deep wound, decrease the stun duration when losing feral frenzy by .5 seconds for each individual survivor you hit with feral slash.
- If you manage to hit three survivors while in feral frenzy, hitting another healthy or injured survivor without deep wound will immediately put them in the dying state. The Legion will also gain a 15% increase in movement speed while in feral frenzy after hitting 3 survivors.
All these suggestions are great except your last one. You shouldn't be able to down players with Legion's very basic micromanagement. Legion's ability to keep people injured and mending is already keeping people off generators. Downing with an ability that is constant 150% doesn't offer any counterplay to that survivor. It's not hard to get hits with feral frenzy (which is fine when it can only injure).
The decrease in stun per hit is a great idea though.
I support the ability to get the power up more often too. It's weaker than spirits power by miles. Should have it up at thrice the speed.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2011674#Comment_2011674
Not as good just being a useful teammate and doing the gens instead of wasting time trying to do totems whilst unable to communicate that you're doing totems/how many totems you've done/where you've looked for totems.
Also, perks shouldn't counter perks. If small game actually countered NOED, which it doesn't, then that would be terrible game design. And the reason it doesn't counter NOED is because it's actually more valuable to have survivors trying to do dull totems than it is to have the endgame powerspike.
Exactly right.
...and small game is not a good perk. Comfortably D tier for me. As useful as this is not happening.
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Mettle of Man
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It's between DH and Sprint Burst for me.
99% sprint burst is much more powerful than dead hard.
The other exhaustion perks aren't as versatile as these two.
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@Fuzzels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2008637#Comment_2008637
Did you not read any of the post? I literally stated why hes not gone. Played less, sure. But hes still easily A tier. Hes played less because people decided to drink the koolaid and jump on the bandwagon of "oh hes so bad now" when nothing important actually changed
Definitely was a bandwagon being jumped on with his nerf. It was probably because the community rated him as a balanced killer and his base kit got nerfed when it was supposed to be insta-saw removed.
I think you got to ask yourself why play Billy when you can play Oni? I think that's where a lot of Billy players migrated to. He's much easier to land insta down hits and gets his power up quite easily. If Oni wasn't in the game I'd say the play rate of Billy would have remained popular.
I do miss playing against Billy though. Always a treat to verse an OG Billy main.
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@Verconissp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006546#Comment_2006546
You stand near the window and wait for the killer to get close towards you before sprinting and get a instant fast vault despite looking like a Medium vault
It's not instant? You need to have directional momentum to get a fast vault. What survivors are doing is premeditating a sprint towards the window 90 degrees. They're running out wide to setup a fast vault. It might look instant from killer perspective but the survivor has given up distance to set it up.
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@[Deleted User] said:
McLean acknowledged in one of his streams that is something unintended in the game but they don't plan on removing it. Other killers like Oni, Nurse or Billy are also able to make insane flicks using high DPI.
Honestly I don't see the problem in this. Survivors also have things like window tech, CJ tech, Dead Hard or fast vaulting while standing still, etc that are all unintended. These are just things that add a bit more of skill to the game. Besides that, I've yet to face a Blight that does 180s.
To be fair window tech and CJ tech have 100% success rate counter play. You can't do anything about someone using high dpi on Oni and Blight. Dead hard I suppose is the only thing you can do.
I do understand the skill behind it but that doesn't mean it's balanced. Take Nurse for example.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007968#Comment_2007968
Lazy? I don't think that is a term that has ever been used to describe me. I got a bit of a chuckle out of that. You are making several incorrect assumptions:
- What makes you think I'm not checking Generators? Of course I am. You cannot win with Spooky Myers without maintaining Generator pressure. He is slow and has no easy options for Insta-Down. You have to put the fear of Myers into them, coming out of nowhere, hit and run. The other name for this build (which I like less) is Jump Scare Myers. The reason I don't like that term, is because I'm not always going for Jump Scares. It is hilarious to suddenly appear in doorway that they are approaching, but it isn't always the most effective application. A Spooky Myers is checking Generators. The key is to be efficient at doing so, i.e. routes are everything, and sweeping, efficient routes allow you to pick up the aura of Survivors, hear Generators being worked, and keep tabs on that distant hook for the intercept.
- For the record, I've gotten to Rank one before the reset every month since I eventually achieved that goal. I fight mostly Red Ranks (with the odd Purples thrown in) unless it is the weird "Taste the Rainbow" outlier created by them testing MMR in the background. In short, I'm fighting people who are supposed to be able to hold their own. And there are more than a few matches where I've run across people who know exactly how to fight Myers and fixed my little red wagon. They are Survivors who can adapt, as no plan survives contact with the enemy.
- My Power is not an "in house cheat" as you call it. All Killers have a unique ability, and builds which expand on it. The Spooky Myers pays a very high price for his ability to see you, assuming the Survivors choose to call in the marker. I'm slow, and have no effective tech against good Loopers. The Spooky Myers is an anti-Stealth build, i.e. the bane of Claudettes everywhere. If you hide, he finds you. He appreciates you stopping so he can catch up. He appreciates you not running in a straight line away from him, because when you zig and zag he can angle to cut the distance. He likes it when you take OoO because he can see you but you can't see him. He doesn't like you being out in the middle of wide open spaces because he can't sneak up on you. All it takes is a little bit of a head start and he is NOT going to catch you. Spine Chill is everywhere these days (and with the new and improved Wraith it is only going to get more common) so most people can get that head start. Spooky Myers takes work. You have to outthink your opponents once they start applying basic, effective tactics. You will not catch them; you have to be two steps ahead. Lazy? I take pride in going against the best I can pull and I often take them on on big maps. I, myself, put in Haddonfield the other day and fought a Red Rank SWF that beat me soundly, but I made them work for it. Next time, I mean to beat them.
I don't rely on my build. I try to take my build to the next level. I want to see what I can do with it, and unlike other people in this thread, I don't think Spooky is just for indoor maps.
You play scratched mirror outdoors? Mad respect.
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@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2006597#Comment_2006597
I want to inform. I play a LOT of Spooky Myers. It is my favorite build. I get tired of the salt from "supposed" Red and Purple Ranks that don't seem to know how he works. If I wanted to camp, I'd camp. I don't have any aversion to it. It just boggles my mind that they don't know how this Meme Build works.
You've got to also realise that the survivors don't know where you are relative to the hook either with jump scare myers. What do you want them to do? You're bringing indoor offerings too right? It's either let the hooked survivor die, or take the free hit on the generator or get yourself in a position where t1 myers can't possibly get a free hit. All really result in a loss if you play t1 myers correctly.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007787#Comment_2007787
You don't know how to break bloodlust XD.
Wow that's where your talking from, a viewpoint of a low skill survivor. I would make the same argument against killers who want sprint burst or dead hard changed.
Most people who've played for a decent (1k+ hours) know how to loop and link tiles whilst breaking bloodlust.
It's survivor 101 pal.
Most people one this forum want lengthy and descriptive discussions. Your the first person I've met that is against it. Well done.
If you don't want in depth discussions that's fine, but nothing will get done from them, and they will mean very little due to the fact that you haven't actually displayed your full point.
I'll stop you there. I know every game mechanic in this game to the code. You can't teach me anything.
This is my last reply to you. Ignoring everything from here.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007729#Comment_2007729
That's like saying-
If you get hit by a killer in a loop it's the killers fault that you failed.
The onus is on the survivor to break bloodlust as is on any chase.
It's rather easy to break bloodlust.
It's not difficult to get a pallet stun and then run to another loop.
It's not waffle, if I don't put a lot of description in most posts ( this is a first, someone not wanting description) then I don't fully address someone's point.
It's waffle.
Don't know how you conjured that. Read it to yourself. It doesn't make sense.
It's easy to break bl. If the killer wants to break it. lol
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@Zeus said:
A training mode vs bots would be nice.
Yes!!!!!!!
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007741#Comment_2007741
Yeah, their option is to go after survivor and either brake a pallet and have a chance to get more or throw all their resources at getting that one survivor. That's how game works.
Yeah so read the context.
I was responding to someone saying noed is useless against injured survs. I'm not stupid.
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@Profezia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007729#Comment_2007729
You drop a pallet and either waste 2+ minutes running around it, effectively winning the game for your team or make killer lose BL3.
That doesn't deactivate bloodlust. They have to break it. Remember we're in end game when noed has started. They're only feasible option is to go for one survivor.
Assume I'm versed on all game mechanics. I'm arguing that it's up to the killer to choose to lose bloodlust.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007701#Comment_2007701
I said noed is useless, you used pairing it with bloodlust as en example, I'm saying that it's the pair then that's useful, not noed itself. And many people won't get bloodlust 3 against good survivors that know how to loop and they know how to dip in and out of chases.
Again, that's how I address points. I go in depth so that I'm being completely open about my point and I'm displaying my point down to the bitter core.
No one can then, hopefully, can misinterpret my point.
You're doing it again. dOwN tO tHe BiTtEr cOrE. It's waffle.
Bloodlust is base kit. You don't get one or the other if you have picked noed.
Are you trying to say it's up to the survivor not to get BL3 on top of noed (on a competent killer player)? Hello?
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007677#Comment_2007677
So you want me to keep it short, ok. I'll try and condense what I'm saying here .
The issue isn't Noed's 4% haste, it's how it interacts with bloodlust.
A similar thing I would not say is broken or needs a change is DS (after rework), even though with UB it becomes broken.
Also, you call it waffle when I'm explaining points and inconcise when all I've done is elaborate which I've had to do in many other debates. And you tend to have to in most debates.
That's rather backwards logic coming on a discussions page and not wanting someone to discuss something in depth.
I'm not saying it's an issue. You said it's noed is useless against injured survivors. That's quoting you. It's not useless.
I don't think noed is op - it isn't. I do think it needs a rework. I want to see old ruin rework treatment to it.
You can discuss something in depth. Sure. That's not what your huge paragraphs are though. I was reading multiple sentences that could've been written in one. Wide as an ocean, deep as a puddle.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007654#Comment_2007654
I don't understand which part of that is rhetoric, so please point It out rather than just saying what I said is rhetoric. I pointed out that you have flaws in these posts and how you have dealt with my post was inadequate. I deal with posts in detail and address everything I feel is in the post. If you don't like me sending a few paragraphs explaining my point or discretions with your post in detail, I don't think that you should be entering any sort of debate as people often do this.
Also, then that's not an issue with noed that's an issue with its interaction with bloodlust. 4% alone as it stands is nothing.
A good comparison to what you are saying here would be that Ds is op because it can still (even when reworked) be paired with UB and that interaction removes the down from the killer as they are either forced to eat a 5s stun or leave them to get back up.
That's not Ds being op, that's the combo being op.
I wasn't being aggressive, I was going point by point, it's what I tend to do.
Also thank you for pointing out my spelling mistakes, I was rushing that post and when I do I often make a few mistakes.
Can you stop typing such long inconcise waffle and I'll try to address it. I'm not reading that. You have a whole paragraph trying to explain how you like to debate. Lol
You haven't changed my stance on 4% movement speed on killer. That's not useless.
I don't care if you're aggressive or not. Just please keep it short and sweet and I'll gladly debate you.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007615#Comment_2007615
Must suck to know that a brick wall is better than you;)
It does. It hurts so so bad.
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@ilovedbd123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2005912#Comment_2005912
You still haven't replied to me. I'm going to guess your out of your depth here since the agressive and combative tone that you took on is usually used by people who don't have a clue about what they are talking about/how to debate or propose their point effectively. That's usually why people take this tone, unless you took my dismissive attitude to heart in which case I'd say you need to grow some skin before coming on the forum pal, cuz what I said was light compared to how others will talk to you when you make a short quote with an "ok" as the only thing you've added to it.
Anyhow, maybe think your replies through a bit more and answer people's points when you think they are wrong. That's what helps public discourse rather than that post you made which added nothing to the discussion.
You also didn't reply with this reply to me arguing about how noed is useless against injured people, and unless your going to say "4% movement speed is a lot, and definitely will affect a chase and make it really easy to catch someone who knows how to loop" then I don't think you can even propose an argument, but even the aforementioned argument is flawed.
Anyhow, enjoy your day and if you do wish to reply to anything, reply to my actual first post as well as this. Otherwise, there is no point in you posting.
you're* aggressive* you're*
Notice your huge reply to my five word response. I rest my case.
Yes that was the rhetoric. Permanent T1 bloodlust and compiling bloodlust on top of NOED is useful against both good loopers and not so good. Don't underestimate how that can translate to hit potentially one minute faster.
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I love how this is a technical and integrity issue which would be completely unacceptable in other pvp games and people who have no idea what the hell they're talking about feel inclined to open their mouths.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007597#Comment_2007597
Survivors always have the option to extend a chase. It's called not being greedy.
Okay brick wall.
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@Snap_Tobiyume said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/233542/why-are-killers-rewarded-for-bad-connection
Because you appear closer to them on their screen. It's that simple. They work just as much for their hits, meaning that its no advantage. And before you accuse me of using a VPN or lagswitch, I'm on ps4, so I can't do that #########.
Yes they appear closer.
That means the survivor cannot play reactively. Just because you got the hit doesn't mean the survivor didn't have the opportunity to extend the chase if the killer's ping was good. That is still an advantage to killer. A lot of the time to extend a chase as survivor comes down to split second reaction time.
EDIT: You can still vpn/ lagswitch on a ps4.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007561#Comment_2007561
The counter stands at 1, but sure.
Anyway, i´ve seen several matches where the killer couldn´t pick up or hook a downed survivor, because he froze in animation while the survivors ping spiked to 600+. This only happend during those 2 actions. Never when the killer was chasing.
I just slapped that down. Just sick of the word narrative here. It's turned into cult culture. It has been exhausted beyond the meaning of the word.
Yes high latency from a survivor effects the killer. Definitely!
In the chases though is where survivor really has a hard time with high ping from the killer. The chase is also the most fun part of the game imo.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007556#Comment_2007556
You can't just bar people from playing because they don't live next to a server, which is exactly what will happen if hit validation was that aggressive. And so killers have the advantage because it's their direct objective to hit survivors in order to hook them.
It doesn't bar them from playing. You can program interpolation to make the lagging players client "predict" movement ahead of time. Just makes it fair for everyone. It would be an integrity change.
It's the objective but if you're high latency you should be at a disadvantage imo. It takes skill away from the game.
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I do think kicking gens should be instant regression. My number would be between 5-10%
It would solve gen tapping frustration knowing that you're losing distance to start the regression problem. If you're pressuring a generator - the survivors have to respect it.
It also makes kicking generators worth it!
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You're right. There is many parts of the game that don't determine outcome of the match because of skill.
The thing is though is that both sides have perks/items/addons that contribute to this. It's a cesspit and is hard to change because a lot of this stuff has been in the game for years.
The game is still fun though.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2007496#Comment_2007496
Yes, they're ignoring that. As it doesn't fit with the "killers bad" narrative.
Tsulan's 'narrative' cliche counter: 283
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@MadLordJack said:
Because latency cannot ever go away and the killers objective is directly tied to hits, so...
Latency can't go away but you can program the game to not give an edge to the player with high ping. All dedicated server games I've ever played are exclusively server calculated hit registration. (except dbd)
Melee game latency is much more noticable than shooters but the current system does currently favor killer. I can route my data packets poorly to add 250ms of ping time to my connection to the dbd server and get an advantage as killer. That is set in stone and I don't understand killer mains arguing against this. You have high ping - you have an advantage as killer. It's that simple. Your client calculates the hit.