FrostySeal
FrostySeal
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@JPLongstreet said:
Wouldn't many placements differ greatly depending on whether a controller or a mouse is being used?
Well yeah but DBD wasn't initially released on console, so 99% of tier lists don't factor them in because it'd unnecessarily complicate things.
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Twins are easily A tier, Victor is near impossible to avoid if you're good at him, and as long as you can keep survivors consistently injured the twins are one of the most oppressive Killers.
Trickster is low B tier. He has an advantage against other ranged Killers with that 115% movement speed but he suffers a lot, especially on indoor maps or maps with a lot of high wall loops. Having to hit 8 knives makes chases sometimes drag on way too long and he doesn't have any map mobility to make up for it which hurts him greatly. The one thing he excels is easily camping and tunneling though, with his main event and fast throw speed you can easily kill both the saver and the unhooked person if your in a good enough spot.
Ghostface is C tier. Against good survivors, he's nothing more than a Killer who can sometimes get the jump on you but nothing else. He doesn't have any anti-loop or map mobility which means unless you can consistently keep up the pressure against Survivors he'll start losing momentum very quickly. He's also very map dependant meaning he can be almost powerless on some maps making him feel very frustrating to play.
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The biggest issue Nemesis has imo is just the fact that he's a huge chase monster and then in every other aspect pretty mundane. Since chases are the most skillful part of the game, a lot of survivors tend to feel very negative towards Killers who end chases very quickly because then the only thing they can do is ignore every other part of the game and just hard focus on gens which end up not being fun for anyone involved. His zombies are pretty meh tbh, but it does feel really bad if you get unlucky as a survivor and have a zombie blocking off a certain area.
Nemesis isn't oppressive, but he suffers from the same problems as any other Killer whose specialty only lies in the chase.
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@danielmaster87 said:
This is why I haven't been playing him lately. Thought he was trash upon release, my mind got changed through playing as him, only to realize that my original assumption was correct the moment I faced competent survivors. Constantly missing shots due to its tiny explosion radius and inconsistent physics, constant scenarios where the survivors can see me and break out of infection yet I can't see them or hit them with my power, and teleport clones which are too few in number before they start to replace each other are also destroyed constantly. I'm pretty sure when they touch him soon, they're gonna nerf him, especially his teleport. But I really don't see the reason, because he feels pretty mid. Mid killers have been known to still get massive nerfs, I'm just saying.
Perfectly described my feelings about the Killer. At first, I thought he really wasn't that good, then I started practicing with him and getting lots of 4ks making me think he was really great, then I started going up against Survivors who knew the exact counterplay to him and thats when I realized I was wrong again. His teleport really feels like the main power while his UVX feels like the side power against good survivors, and that feels terrible. When I get a down or hit on someone with my teleport it just doesn't feel as gratifying as getting a hit on them. Plus, like you mentioned his physics on the UVX feels terrible. When I shoot at the ceiling I expect it to fall down but sometimes it'll instantly explode, and other times vice versa. Trying to get a bounce on a rounded object can yield a million different results, none of which are consistent. And if a Survivor is in the open and around medium distance from you, using your power becomes incredibly difficult which means they'll probably lose the weakened status.
I don't think he's a bad Killer, but he definitely feels mentally draining to play for too long.
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@Pinheadslut said:
This is genuinley the worst take ive ever heard on this site and I made an account just so I could say that. Literally knight got gutted, freddys a mess, and you want to complain about a killers with a really powerful ranged explosive and map wide teleport?
I mean…yeah? There's been way worse opinions than mine, I'm sure you're overexaggerating. Despite Knights changes, I've found myself having consistent success with him as long as I keep call to arms and dried horsemeat on, and while I definitely don't agree with the long universal cooldowns I don't think he's as bad as before, but he's not too much better.
And Freddy I just completely forgot he existed at the time of posting this because realistically who cares about him in this state?
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
Holy what a skill issue.
OP, PLEASE post your gameplay for us to see, I beg you
Just an opinion at the end of the day, no need to get so up in arms about it. I've had good games with him and even mained him for a short duration, my biggest issue was due to the fact that his UVX is incredibly inconsistent when it comes to bounces. Sometimes it'll bounce in a way that makes no sense, sometimes it'll instantly explode, or sometimes it'll bounce a bit too far.
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Simple as, most people are incredibly burnt out on DBD. This game and others like it rely on a sunk cost fallacy to keep you playing over the course of many, many years and because of that, you get a lot of players who just keep forcing themselves to play the game despite hating it. It's most apparent on Killer right now as sometimes you'll just play a specific Killer and will instantly get a survivor DC, have a short chase due to a mess up on their end making them DC, or hell even just have a normal chase with them and they'll still DC once you down them. It's noticeable on Survivor too as you'll have teammates that'll DC over literally nothing.
It's inevitable, unfortunately. Nothing the devs do will ever fix this problem because this is what the game is designed to do, its made to keep people addicted. Remember, live service games live and die by their engagement, look at Apex Legends or Overwatch 2 for example. These games are designed to maximize player engagement at any and all costs, even if it causes the player to hate the game.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773253#Comment_3773253
Still, it is just dumb. This is not even one of those cases where someone has read the changes and thinks that a Killer is gutted opens a Thread. This is someone just looking on the Roadmap and ASSUMING that Billy will end up a few Tiers lower. And I personally wish that Threads like this would be closed, they have nothing to do with a discussion. This is just being overly negative and nothing more.
I also dont see a point in bringing up Overheat, which happened YEARS ago.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3773256#Comment_3773256
It is overdramatic. Furthermore, when has a Tweak to a strong Killer be catastrophic? The most recent example is Chucky, who is fine as ever, if you were somewhat decent with him in the first place and not only relied on cheap Scamper Hits. Same for Blight and Wesker, I dont really see any drop in their popularity, despite both receiving Nerfs.
And dont let me start about Nurse, who only received slaps on the wrist all the time and is still busted and a pure design failure.
Because put simply, why wouldn't they nerf Hillbilly? He's the second strongest Killer in the game and while he's arguably one of the hardest to learn, if people can climb that skill ladder and reach the top he becomes an insanely difficult Killer to play against. Combining overdrive and engravings make him nigh impossible to react to, and given how unlike any other Killer he has no cool down on his power, why wouldn't they nerf him? It's more than possible for BHVR to feel as though they overturned his kit and dial it back down.
I didn't ask the question in this post but I was going to make one asking the question if BHVR wants any S tier Killers, and if being in S Tier warrants a nerf.
There have been plenty of examples of BHVR messing up strong Killers. I don't agree with your assessment on Chucky. He might still be a decent Killer, but in terms of any depth he has little to none. He's had all his techs and anything he can do besides just dashing neutered making him a fairly boring Killer to play. I didn't like Scamper, but there were better ways of changing it rather than taking it out.
With Blight they completely murdered most of his addons and removed the one tech that made him an S Tier Killer, the hug tech. Without the hug tech it becomes very easy for good players to gimp him and force him into cooldown, making him play like a normal M1 killer for most pallet loops. And like I said, apart from the OP iridescent combo they created most of Blights addons got butchered. No one talks about it but without speed addons, Blight is just not good enough to compete at very high levels because he's too slow. That's the one thing Hillbilly has that Blight now lacks, and that's speed. With speed you can just barely reach around loops and hit a survivor, or you can create situations where the survivor cannot react fast enough to whatever you're doing.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Forums being overdramatic again.
Like how everyone was "overdramatic" when they killed Hillbilly 4 years ago, killed the knight, killed Deathslinger, completely butchered the Twins rework, created COH and made for this?
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@jesterkind said:
Seems a bit premature. We don't even know what's happening yet lol
Hillbilly is an S tier Killer and completely boxes out every other Killer in the game apart from Nurse. Some of his addons, my personal favorite being the engravings, can turn him into a nightmare for most players who haven't played him and don't know how to counter him. With Overdrive and the .25 extra seconds they gave for him to curve you can nearly curve a complete 180 making him extremely powerful in many scenarios.
There is zero chance they aren't going to nerf him in some way, it's just not possible.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3760557#Comment_3760557
I win most of the time without breaking a sweat but sometimes losing once and thinking Gen speed is issue is close to "once upon a time survivors do Gen when I fail to pressure, and thats unfair"
How did you completely misinterpret what I said? Don't put words in my mouth that I never spoke, properly read my message if you wanna criticize me.
First of all most Killers win most of their matches. Why? Simply because there is no proper MMR. Back when MMR was first released it was incredibly strict causing everybody to complain that all their matches were sweaty. BHVR listens and over the course of a few years, they made it infinitely more forgiving to the point where high MMR doesn't even really exist, it's just very low, low, middle, and then everybody is grouped together past that. This makes it so that someone with 700 hours can go up against someone with 8000 hours, causing a large disparity in skill. Combine this with the fact that solo queue gathers 4 random people and that results in the chances for a competent team to actually be formed incredibly rare. And it's because of that most Killers win most of their matches. It's mostly skill obviously on the Killer's part, but the fact that there may be one, two, or even three bad players gives them a huge advantage. My point is that just because I win most of my matches doesn't really mean anything. If the game is unfairly giving me an advantage by making one or two of the survivors bad then I just don't like to count those matches because I was always going to win them, they're just filler. Imagine if you were playing any other game and you knew that for the next 8 matches you were going to go up against a team that was way worse than you, and then only afterward would there maybe be a chance you'd go up against a group of people who were on your level, if not higher.
What I'm complaining about is if 4 competent survivors are grouped together and all 4 of them understand gen efficiency (Understanding when to heal, when to focus gens, etc) and they get just a half-decent map then it becomes incredibly difficult to win depending on what Killer your playing. Should I have just not queued up as the Dredge at all knowing that I'd go against 4 good survivors on disturbed ward? Maybe it was a Skill issue on my part, but it's not an uncommon sight nowadays to see even good Killer players struggle against a competent team of survivors who know what to do with gens.
All I'm asking for is an equal footing against people at my level. Like I clearly stated, sure, if I'm playing Hillbilly, Blight, or anybody that's very strong I have no issues, hell sometimes I even enjoy the sweaty games, but if I'm playing a weaker Killer or not bringing a full meta loadout then I just lose if I get a map that's even slightly favored towards survivors? I just get to go on a few chases before the games already over in 6 minutes? It's the equivalent of landing in a battle royale, having no items in your area, then being sprayed down less than a minute later by a fully kitted-out squad before you've had the chance to even do anything.
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@Nazzzak said:
How many hours do you have and how many killers do you spread your time across? I only ask because it can take time commitment for alot of people to master just one killer and you've listed several straight off the bat that you play. I honestly mean this in a purely constructive way, perhaps you're still learning to play these killers efficiently?
Honestly? I'm not sure. I have 3000 hours in this game, and if I had to estimate it'd be 65% to 70% on Killer with the rest on Survivor. I play every single Killer in the game although there are plenty I rarely ever touch (Myers, Hag, Freddy, Spirit, Plague, Artist, and Sadako) but if I had to pick my top-played Killers it'd be in order Blight, Hillbilly, Wesker, and then it gets hard to judge.
I've mained Hillbilly since 2019 and Blight since release. I don't wanna say I've mastered these Killers because I feel it'd require me to master every single bit of collision in the game, but I've memorized every single tech, every flick, basically 99% of things with them. Other Killers I'd say I'm very experienced with would be Singularity, Twins, Oni, Nemesis, Xeno, and Dredge. As for everybody else I'd say I either have a pretty good amount of experience with or kinda eh at.
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@CountOfTheFog said:
I play both sides and I also feel like the generators fly too fast when I'm playing Killer. Ae survivor, it feels the opposite most of the time.
I'm wondering if it's possible certain generators on certain maps are bugged, causing their repair speeds to be just a little faster or slower.
I can't time it, but when playing Survivor, there's times I'm doing a generator by myself and it's obviously progressing faster that the last one I did for example.
This is happening while I'm healthy but using the perk Resilience, which is inactive when healthy.
If you all could please humor me and when playing Survivor next time, for a decent 4 or 5 hour session, let me know if you notice this.
It also seems some generators move slower too but the increased speed is more noticeable than decreased.
I don't think it's completely out of the realm of possibilities since generators are indeed bugged on certain sides where Killers can't kick them.
I always thought this was just perception from each role, but as Survivor, you can *feel* for lack of a better word that a generator is progressing a bit faster sometimes (slower too, but to a lesser extent).
There's definitely an issue with Prove Thyself not activating, I've reported it. Neither the purple perk light window, nor the little buff icon appears on certain generators in a trial, while others it does.
Fully agree lol. It's such a strange phenomenon, when I play Killer I'll seldom have matches where the gens just fly unless I play absolutely out of my mind, and then when I play Survivor it unironically feels like 90% of my matches none of my teammates are sticking on to gens when they really should. Honestly that combined with how stale Survivor has felt led me to just playing Killer 80% of the time.
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@BoopDaDoop said:
I don't know if this is a new killer who doesn't understand the gameplay loop or if your not running strong perks and being confused why gens are flying. If the issue is your new at dbd or killer master your killers gameplay loop and don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy you havent put in the time to always be able to get them. If its a perk issue harass as many survivors as possible when your in chase. Perks conflicting is very bad. Don't run deadlock pop because they conflict.
I have 3015 hours in the game, I've been playing since mid-2019. I understand the gameplay loop, but that's not what I'm talking about. I've had games where the first 3 gens fly by and then the rest of the game slows down to the point where I win. I'm talking about the games where I did everything I could and despite that, the gens still flew by in 5 minutes. I usually run about half meta perks and half some other perks like Brutal Strength or Unforseen. I'm no stranger to skipping out on chases that are just not winnable, I'd rather not run full meta constantly on the weaker killers just to have a chance to play the game, and I know about conflicting gen perk combos.
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@danielmaster87 said:
Yeah. You get survivors who do gens, you just lose. Only reason why this is rare in solo is because matchmaking sucks. Generally SWF has efficient gen speed every time, which is why we complain about it. If the devs wanted to bring solo up to SWF level, they'd just improve the matchmaking, because a good solo team is basically SWF-level. But they don't want to do that because it's better for them to have the community mad at each other than mad at them.
That's my biggest issue. I'm not gonna lie and say I lose most of my games because of gen rushing, in fact, I win most of my games without having to sweat. My biggest issue is just once every 7 to 10ish matches I'll get matched up against a group of Survivors who are extremely gen efficient making it feel like there's absolutely nothing I can do. If I'm playing a really good Killer then of course I have a chance, but if I'm playing someone like Dredge or Trickster who have glaring weaknesses then I essentially get to play the game for 5 minutes before all the gens get completed.
In my time playing DBD I've gone up against virtually every single type of player, the bully squad, extremely good loopers, streamers, etc. And by far the worst type are the ones who understand gen efficiency because there isn't much you can do in most scenarios, especially if they bring specific map offerings.
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@Seraphor said:
Have you tried not being a slave to the meta?
The other slowdown perks are absolutely viable.
I tend to just run Surge, Thrilling Tremors, or Call of Brine depending on my build. And by that I mean I'll run one of them, not all of them.
Pretty bold assumption that I'm a slave to the meta when I just asked a question.
Surge is fine, I already said it was, only on M1 Killers.
Thrilling Tremors isn't a slowdown perk, it's primarily an information perk.
And call of Brine is a worthless perk, im not sure why you think otherwise. If your using it for gen regression it does nothing and if your using it for information surveillance does it's job infinitely better.
The screenshot is a bit outdated but it still holds up.
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I kinda feel the same. I wish Skull Merchant was a Killer I could like, but I just can't. Playing against her is by far one of the most frustrating things in the game even after learning her "counterplay" and playing as her feels relatively unsatisfying for me personally. Her lore, her design, everything really has combined to make a Killer that might just be forever cursed to be hated which is unfortunate but maybe it was for the best. I feel its thanks to the failure of her chapter that BHVR moving forward will definitely learn from their mistakes with this character.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726690#Comment_3726690
Heaven forbid that mobility killers have a level that's not their cup of tea. All killers have levels they don't prefer.
I mean…yeah? Most if not all indoor maps tend to be on the more unpopular side because they limit most Killers' abilities. The game was designed and still is designed for open maps, not indoors.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726835#Comment_3726835
I think you are wrong on many killers.
Dredge excels. God tier map on Onryo. Excels on Wesker. Excels on Trapper. At least mid if not excels with PH. At least mid with Knight. Literally ALL stealth killers excel on this map idk how you could put any of them lower. Hag is at least mid if not excels.
I think there were many killers you put as way worse than they are on this map.
"RPD encourages holding W because the map has so many loops that can be
chained one after another making it so that you can make chases
absolutely awful for the Killer. Open maps will always have that hold W
aspect to them but at the very least ranged and dash Killers can reach
them fast, not on RPD because of the LOS blockers."The chaining is not nearly as good as most outdoor maps and the chaining here is way harder as you can actually force them to play a loop easier than most outdoor maps. You are vastly under realizing how much of an impact seeing the killer a mile away on outdoor maps has on hold w play. Also making indoor maps sound worse for way more killers than there actually are. It's actually quite a small group of killers that are actually hindered by indoor maps. Way smaller than your examples.
"3 Gen isn't a super common problem on RPD, but it is a problem that can
definitely exist on it. Certain Killers, like Singularity or SM can get
lucky with map generation and if they do then they can make it
incredibly difficult to break the 3 gen. Granted, it's not an
RPD-exclusive problem but given how the map doesn't have that many
strong window loops it makes it incredibly difficult to loop the Killer
at all after most of the pallets have been consumed."3 genning isn't an issue anymore on any killer, on any map. Between killer changes, map changes, and perk changes it is just not an issue any more at all. Much less on RPD.
Dredge does not excel at all, on both variants of maps there are many, many areas where there are no lockers to teleport to. There's none outside, none in the middle, and the ones that are there are often placed in spots that give survivors plenty of time to react. Some of the strongest loops on RPD cannot be used with his anti-loop rendering him an M1 killer most of the time. Not all stealth Killers excel on this map.
As for Michael Myers and GF, just because they're stealth Killers doesn't mean they're S-tier on this map. At their core, they're M1 Killers, and going up against Survivors who know how to chain the tiles together on this map makes it much more difficult to secure downs with them.
At best Wesker's mid on this map. The amount of LOS blockers already makes his power more difficult to use than usual.
Knights AI is currently very buggy and can get caught very quickly on map collision and get stuck for the rest of the chase. RPD being a map with a lot of tight corridors renders his power damn near useless, and I know this because I main him partly.
Trapper's traps literally stick out like a sore thumb on this map, as long as the survivors are proactive and know how a Trapper plays he will struggle hard on this map. The bright, concrete floor completely clashes with his black traps, and with no grass to hide it in there is no way you can hide them for a sneaky trap. Hag also suffers the same effect albeit not as badly.
With LOS blockers Pheads power goes from extremely threatening to a very big 50/50. If a Survivor you're chasing decides to break LOS and you have your power down you either cancel it or you bet on your attack hitting them through the wall. The staircases also hurt his power a lot unless you're in a very, very niche scenario.
Like I said before, every map always has a certain level of W hold and RPD is worse than most simply because dash and ranged killers suffer on it more than any other Killer. There are many vaults and especially god pallets that can make catching up to survivors feel like a slog. The staircase in the middle can be looped in a way that guarantees a safe vault no matter how you chase them, etc.
3 Genning is still a extremely good strat, it's just not an unbeatable one like it used to be. With 3 gens you still limit the ability for Survivors to get gens done by a long time by simply just grouping the gens together, and since RPD is an indoor map it hurts a lot more since most Survivors tend to do the safest and furthest gens leaving the dangerous and close together ones left.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3726690#Comment_3726690
Ranged killers or dash killers are not a good reason for why it’s bad. Outdoor maps are bad for stealth killers too, but that’s totally fine I guess. Also, all the dash killers are already high tier killers anyway unlike stealth killers who are naturally weak and could use the extra help. So if anything maps leaning better for already weak killers is better than maps leaning better for already naturally strong killers.
I disagree on the hold w as well. Outdoor maps are what encourage hold w gameplay as you can see the killer coming from a mile away. Indoor maps such as RPD disincentivize holding w because many times you can’t tell what direction the killers coming from because of all the LoS blockers.
3 genning is not an issue on RPD. I can’t remember the last time I’ve ever lost a game on RPD because of a 3 gen.
Most killers do not struggle on RPD.
Trappers traps stick out like a sore thumb on this map
Curving with Hilllbilly is unnecessarily difficult because of how many LOS blockers there are with doorways, and you can barely run with him for long distances turning him essentially into an M1 killer with a decent insta-down
Nurse struggles with LOS blockers and how many thin hallways there are making it so that sometimes your blinks will shoot you either past your target or not at all
Huntress with LOS blockers
Leatherface with how many tight spots there are making it very easy to crash
Oni with LOS blockers making it hard to flick with his power, and many awkward loop shapes
Deathslinger with LOS blockers and how holding W on this map hurts him
Phead with weird loop shapes making his power more difficult to hit
Blight with how many tight corridors there are making his power difficult to hit
Trickster with LOS blockers causing him to take extra time to down survivors
Artist with weird loop shapes and multi floor making it very easy to hop in a locker and deny her power
Dredge because this map has singlehandedly one of the worst locker spawns in all of DBD making his power borderline unusable on this map
Wesker because of LOS blockers and weird loop shapes
And finally, the Knight who will constantly have his guards get caught on map collision and how many LOS blockers there are making it so dropping a guard instantly will usually not work
RPD encourages holding W because the map has so many loops that can be chained one after another making it so that you can make chases absolutely awful for the Killer. Open maps will always have that hold W aspect to them but at the very least ranged and dash Killers can reach them fast, not on RPD because of the LOS blockers.
3 Gen isn't a super common problem on RPD, but it is a problem that can definitely exist on it. Certain Killers, like Singularity or SM can get lucky with map generation and if they do then they can make it incredibly difficult to break the 3 gen. Granted, it's not an RPD-exclusive problem but given how the map doesn't have that many strong window loops it makes it incredibly difficult to loop the Killer at all after most of the pallets have been consumed.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725477#Comment_3725477
The majority of people have a lot of bad takes, maps can be one of them. Opinions are totally fine, but actually saying bad design I disagree. I actually think indoor maps, RPD included, are much healthier design for the game. I would like to actually hear your reasons why you think it's a bad map and have some discourse on the topic.
Play any ranged Killer or Killer with a dash ability like Blight, Wesker, Oni, or Hillbilly on this map. At it's very best RPD is a heavily flawed map and at its worst, it's a map that will cause you as a Killer to lose badly because survivors hold W on this map or as a Survivor be kept captive because your team didn't complete the gens in the right order leading to a very, very long game of trying to break a 3 gen.
No offense, but you are in the extreme minority of people who think RPD is a good map. The fact that most Killers struggle hard on this map says a lot about it and how it needed to be reworked faster than any other map in the game.
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Probably Skull Merchant or Ghostface
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3723006#Comment_3723006
3-gen is no more. They can try delay it but they can't hold the game anymore so She can't rly have that. Also any killer can camp gens and someone like Knight can push people away from distance while SM can't.
3 Genning is still a thing, just not infinite like it was before. Instead of infinite defense like before you can simply just rely on the complete opposite and play aggressively to hold down the 3 gen. When you have multiple gen regression perks going against you, drones surrounding the entire area preventing you from properly looping, and solo queue communication it's pretty easy to lock down an area, even more so if it's a small map, or more than likely a teammate already dead by then.
And as for the Knight, he's been bugged since last December making his AI absolutely pathetic, not even considering how bad his power is in the first place. And I know that too since he's one of my mains. There's the standard which is absolutely easy to get and the fact that sure, the AI may push them away from the area, but more than likely they just won't be able to do anything else besides that leading to a much more beatable scenario then SM.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
You don't need to empathize with them, its not like they should be ashamed of themselfs for playing a killer they like.
I think every killer probably has some kind of stereotype and then some player on the other side has some bias towards them (mostly negative than positive experience).
For example for me, Pyramid Heads pretty much 95% of the time just ALWAYS tunnel the first person that gets tormented (usualy first chase) and ALWAYS goes back to cages and instatly downs them and kills them. You could say in a way that PH players are scummy? Sure, but also its effective so I get why people play like this and in the end its not like they are breaking games rules or something, so it is also not scummy. Its just a view point. Also I am sure there are PH players who don't tunnel the first people out when they get the chance.
SM aren't some orginized crime group that have goal to bully Survivors and make them suffer. They are just regular players like you and me who just wants to play some character for many reasons. I also played againts few SM who played pretty fair and nice.
I disagree. Apart from Killers like Phead who were practically created to tunnel, and in the old days Rundying Blight with Alch ring, no other Killer has had a stereotype this strong. When SM is still one of the strongest 3 gen holders in the game and still consistently ranking as the Killer with the highest Kill Rate in the game, at what point is it, not a stereotype but rather a pattern that's just consistently noticed?
And when I say scummy, I mean playing in a toxic manner. Sure, holding down a 3 gen, tunneling, etc, isn't necessarily toxic, but when it's combined with random hitting on hook, BMing, and trash talk, then that's when it becomes toxic.
Obviously, they aren't some organized crime group, but when you create a Killer power that is so ridiculously easy to use to 3 gen then that usually ends up attracting some of the worst types of people to that Killer, leading to a vast majority of them being not so kind people.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717527#Comment_3717527
Doesnt billy even have a slide tech to? I've gotten it only to work like once on accident. (I rushed at a car and slid along it for some reason before hitting a survivor)
Technically yeah but it feels more like gliding over it rather than Blight fully coming into contact with the map hitbox. It feels like more or less the fault of weird map collision, like how in Eyrie of crows or Nostromo wreckage you can straight up crash into invisible map collision.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717509#Comment_3717509
Wesker's Hug is a lot harder to do and is extremely situational. Maybe rebound?
It's a lot harder to do but it can give a huge advantage in some situations. I don't count rebound as a tech since it feels more like an intended feature rather than a bug.
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@Pulsar said:
180 Blight and Hug was definitely far too good.
Now, you could've made the argument that the fun/skill-expression to power ratio was fine, but you didn't.
The whole point of my post wasn't to debate whether 180 blight flicks and hug techis balanced or not but what exactly constitutes a techs removal. If 180 and hug tech were too strong on Blight then what about Oni and Wesker?
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This guy also talks about some of the issues SM has.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOliDIQxQlE -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3708748#Comment_3708748
Setting aside whether that perception actually is "the vast majority" position (I think many people neglect to consider the probably large number of people who just don't care about discourse at all, I've been guilty of it before too) I do think it's very relevant to point out that she isn't unhealthy and there really isn't anything you can point to that would make her insufferable to go against when compared to other killers.
Any time I prod one of the people who claim this for reasons why she's apparently so bad, they will inevitably say something that flat out isn't true, or they'll cite problems that other killers have/have worse, if SM even has them at all.
I don't envy BHVR here. They have a vocal percentage of their playerbase (however large that percentage is) constantly ranting about a problem that flat out doesn't exist. It's not going to be easy for them to address that, anything they do to tackle SM's actual problems won't be enough for the people who claim she's an insufferable, terrible design right now.
Of course, the vast majority of the community are a bunch of casual players who don't really care about what or who they go up against, but just going by how her kill rate is nearly 70 percent and how any discourse around her is almost always an entirely negative experience then it can be assumed that a good chunk of the community does not like her. Admittedly, I do sometimes say "mostly" in arguments when in reality it's probably only really at best 20-ish percent of the community I'm talking about but the point still stands that she's still a Killer who's viewed mostly negatively.
I say she is an unhealthy Killer because based on what I've seen, an unhealthy Killer is either considered to be too strong, too weak, or having mechanics that are frustrating to play against. A healthy killer is a Killer like Blight (w/o op add-ons), Billy, Demo, Wesker, Huntress, Oni, etc. These Killers at their core are liked by much of the community because they provide good and fun counterplay whilst also being very strong and able to hold their own against good Survivors. SM can be debated on how strong she is but undeniably she is miserable to go up against. Most survivors enjoy the chase considering that's where the skillful and thrilling part of the game is and when you have a Killer that completely ignores that and forces survivors to do more M1 holding (disabling traps, etc) then you get a Killer that is no surprise, hated by most of the community. Now, being unhealthy isn't always something that requires immediate reworking, but when it's to the degree that SM is then it definitely needs to be considered.
Scott summarizes essentially most of my argument in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKAA0l4iFhg -
@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707664#Comment_3707664
The proof is in the pudding with how people have been behaving towards her, there’s no getting the bad taste out of their mouth with her. 🤷🏼♂️
Not to mention, I already disproved your originally post with facts you completely bypassed because well….there facts…so I don’t have much more to say on this topic of your thread other than what I did say, some of the community needs to stop beating a dead horse especially when they know they keep doing it. It’s pointless. Skull merchant isn’t the monster she use to be. It gets old…In her first form she was just a 3 genning machine and in her second form she stills feels completely awful to go against despite not being able to 3 gen as easily.
That's like saying "People still hate going against Freddy even after he's been changed, hes not the monster he used to be anymore."
Of course, people are still gonna hate on SM as long as she feels terrible to play against. Simple as, if she had all her problems fixed than people wouldn't, it's literally as simple as that. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707640#Comment_3707640
I can answer some of the questions in that first paragraph, and I think those answers would go some way to countering the idea that her power actually is extremely flawed.
So, first, you ask why she gets to be a better stealth killer than Sadako and Dredge when "she isn't even designed to be a stealth killer". There are two things to say to that;
First, she isn't a better stealth killer than Sadako. While Sadako does have a lullaby in her Demanifested form, her stealth is much more consistent and she's a much better user of Undetectable when she does get it. That's just flat out not a thing, she's not a better stealth killer than Sadako. I'd also point out that Dredge isn't really a stealth killer? Sure, it gets Undetectable in Nightfall, but it's still not especially stealthy even then.
Second, Skull Merchant has been a pseudo-stealth killer since day one. She has always had Undetectable in her kit, it has always been something she's designed to be. You can disagree with it being there, and there'd even be a fair conversation to be had about it, but she is designed to be a stealth killer and always has been.
Next, the question about why she can shut down loops better than other killers when Wesker and Unknown have to "work for a down". I'd like to point out that a down is not the same thing as being able to shut down a loop, but setting that aside, it's more relevant to point out that there are three killers that can do this - Merchant, Knight, Artist - and of the three, Merchant is the weakest at it. It takes the longest to start affecting the survivor, and the effect is the weakest of the three when it does. It's not nothing, and I agree it's annoying to face, but this is hardly an overwhelming problem. There's even some survivor agency and decision making when she does it.
Next, the question about Haste, Hindered, and tracking. Honestly, all I can really say to this is that most killers don't really have to try that hard to get their Haste or Haste equivalent? Wraith holds a button, Legion presses a button, Nurse holds a button, Wesker holds a button for a second then presses a button, etc etc. Most killers who can speed themselves up don't really have to work for it. After that, I'd point out that Merchant does have to work for the Hindered, she has to get four scans minimum before someone starts being slowed down, and there's quite a lot to be done to stop her doing that.
I'd also like to contest the idea that a survivor has to do far more than the killer. Dodging killer powers is the expectation some of the time and you don't see that idea applied to them - nobody's out here complaining that all Huntress has to do is hold a button and you have to keep dodging. If the Skull Merchant is playing poorly or passively, you don't have to do much at all to outplay her drones. If she's putting effort in, you have to put effort in. There's not much different about her compared to other killers, and there are killers who absolutely put way less effort in than her.
Finally, as a brief aside, not really the point of the thread or the posts so far, but what on earth does she even have in common with Knight outside of the "shut down loop" thing? They're completely different killers.
Ehh, I kinda disagree with the Sadako point. Her having a lullaby destroys any stealth potential she has, and sure, in-game she's undetectable far more making it more consistent, but that doesn't mean it's more effective. Against good Survivors Sadako might as well only be a Killer who can teleport and maybe get the rare jump on them with undetectable.
Dredge is supposed to be a stealthy Killer, that's why nightfall has undetectable in it. It's supposed to be his main event, overdrive, whatever you want to call it, but he gets curb-stomped because he has the loudest sounds in the game by far making it beyond easy to hear him coming from a mile away. It just feels as though BHVR did what they usually do and overestimated a killer's strength hard so they added a hard counter to him just turning him into a Killer who had stealth potential into someone who can't stealth at all. I'm sure they'll eventually fix it in a future balance patch, and I'm willing to bet on it.
But anyway, compared to those two Killers what makes SM's undetectable way better than theirs is the fact that she is a completely silent Killer. Unlike those two she doesn't have a single audible sound that can be heard when she's undetectable making it so much more easier to surprise or sneak up on survivors. You say she's always been a pseudo-stealth Killer, and I can half agree with that but not completely. In her old form, I'd argue her undetectable was a pretty forgettable part of her and was only really good whenever you managed to coral a survivor into a loop that had one of your drones in so it'd make mind gaming easier. I rarely ever got any decent stealth value from it in her old form, and that's why I never considered her to really be a stealthy Killer, just a Killer who had stealth shoved into her kit. Now in her new form being undetectable for ten seconds whenever you just place a drone down gives her so much more potential in the stealth department, and I just feel as though considering how bloated her kit is she really doesn't deserve to be a completely silent Killer when it's not entirely the point of her character.
I should've worded it better, but the main point I was getting at is how SM can get potential injuries much, much more easier than a lot of other Killers can for little to no skill involved. I shouldn't have used the word down, because you're right, it's not the same. Arguably though I wouldn't consider SM out of the two other Killers you mentioned the weakest at shutting down loops. Considering Knight is one of my mains I can provide a bit more input and say that by far he is the weakest between those three. As Knight when compared to SM when you place down a guard, there are a lot of other variables that can screw you over. First, you can't be standing too close to any wall making it much more awkward at times to place a guard down quickly, secondly, you have to enter the animation, drop the guard down, and then wake up which takes about 2.5ish seconds giving the survivors a lot of time to leave the loop leaving you powerless for a long time, especially if it's the Jailer. Then if everything does go well and your guard starts a chase (you NEED map of the realm to even do this, otherwise survivors will always outrun the detection radius) you can still easily get screwed over by how pathetic the AI is, and despite everything you've just done you could just end up not getting a hit at all because the AI suddenly decided that it's going to take a really bad detour. At worst too, the Survivor could grab the banner and end up getting a free sprint burst and endurance combo, although admittedly this doesn't happen much. SM suffers in the beginning of the game much more than Knight, but she makes up for this by being so much more time efficient, consistent, and less RNG-based than him too. The artist is undisputed, but at the same time when she does put crows on a loop there's still potential for faking her out or her messing up the placement of the birds making it still a pretty easy strat to do, but one that takes at least a decent more planning.
When I mention haste, hindered, and undetectable I should've been more specific, so let me do so. When I say those I mean the actual status effects, not things like Wraiths power or Weskers rush. Those aren't haste, I consider those to be their powers. SM gets those status effects for very little on her end making it feel terrible to play against. When she puts her drone down she completely cancels a loop and gets ten seconds of undetectable. In addition to that once you do get scanned by her power you are now giving her free tracking, constant haste until the trap falls off, and potentially hindered if you are already injured. If the other Survivors slip up then she'll be even faster, and from there holding W becomes essentially a nonviable option meaning your only play is to pre-drop or hope your in a strong part of the map. From the Survivors perspective, all she's been doing is just plopping a drone down in most loops they enter making it feel like she's doing very little and being rewarded very greatly for it, which then leads to the feeling that when compared to the Killer you as the Survivor are doing way more on your part than she is.
I'll acknowledge that SM takes a decent bit more skill than meets the eye as you need a decent grasp of the macro game, but there's no denying that out of every other Killer she ranks amongst the worst to play against because of what I mentioned. When you get flicked by a Blight or Billy or sniped by a Huntress or Unknown it's easy to acknowledge that it took at least a good amount of Skill to get that, and in comparison from the Survivors POV SM just places down a drone and gets 40 status affects from doing so which feels awful. And yeah, she's not the only Killer who can do things relatively easily but all those other Killers still arguably feel better to play against. Clown has limited bottles and can run out quickly if he keeps screwing up, Trickster can be screwed by long distances and running around corners, Legion can be split up against making his power useless, etc.
Finally, I brought up the Knight because both of those Killers have the same gameplay loop of placing things down to force survivors away from certain areas. Sure, they aren't completely the same obviously, and differ in some regards but when you look at their powers you can see a bit of similarity between them. In Chase, she's able to deny areas much easier and smoother than him, and from far away she still has the advantage, albeit not by much.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707672#Comment_3707672
so what would the rework do? Make her destroyed by uncoordinate teams and get destroyed by good teams?
Just make her a more skillful Killer to play as and rewarding players who master her while also making her counterplay something more enjoyable. Look at the Hillbilly rework, they turned him from a pretty mediocre Killer to now a Killer who is arguably sitting at the very top of A tier.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707672#Comment_3707672
That's a lot of killers, though. Like, any killer with anything you need to interact with does that.
The difference is that SM does so in one of the most unhealthy ways possible. Most Killers suffer from this, but a lot of them are at least at a somewhat "healthy-ish" state, but SM is still considered by a vast majority of the community to be completely insufferable to go up against. Of course, BHVR could just do the most boring thing and nerf her but I feel as though it just wouldn't be fair and it'd be missing the point entirely. Thats why most of the community wants her reworked.
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@jesterkind said:
I'm hoping we don't get a full rework, because she really doesn't need one and it'd be really annoying to see massive unnecessary changes just because of whining.
Ideally, sometime soon-ish SM will get a series of small changes to tighten up the few minor flaws her power currently has, and then she's left alone. Hopefully enough time passing will have the majority realise there's really not much of a reason to complain about her anymore.
She destroys uncoordinated Survivors extremely easily while also simultaneously getting destroyed by good teams. That alone makes her a prime target for needing a rework.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
We both know they could rework her 30 times and some of the community would still be complaining such as the author of this Post unfortunately.
Aight, where's your proof for that? Or I guess we could just make incorrect assumptions. She was hated then for 3 genning, and she is hated now for the reasons I already stated. If she had a Skillful power that had a lot of depth to it, rewarding the Killer for mastering it whilst also giving the survivors a nice amount of counterplay then she'd be loved by all. Look at Hillbilly, most players love going against him and playing as him because how fun his power is. He gives survivors ample amount of counterplay whilst also giving the Killer a very, very strong kit that can give even the best Survivors in the game a real challenge.
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@Ohyakno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3707640#Comment_3707640
Your complaints apply equally to trapper. Did you know he pushes a button and shuts down loops? Just mentioning the good parts of a killer without their weaknesses is incredibly disingenuous.
Also singularity's difficulty is pretty overstated. Him and SM are in my wheelhouse of killers and I'll tell you freely that I win much more easily on singu than SM cuz she kinda sucks when people actually choose to play.
True, it applies to Trapper, the only difference being that he's the worst Killer in the game by far and still requires a lot of thinking on the Killer side. He needs to carefully consider where his traps go and even then it usually isn't enough. Plus, the loop-canceling power he has is situational. He has two options, either sit down for a second and a half committing to putting the trap down giving survivors ample time to hold W, or cancel it and hopefully catch the survivors in the process. Either way, it's a risky maneuver that could easily get him just stunned with a Pallet during the process if he's not careful. Lets compare that to SM who clicks M2 and completely cancels the loop without losing any distance in the process. She doesn't need to set up for 2 seconds, she just plops down her drone and it forces the survivor to leave unless they want to get rapidly injured or hindered.
And yeah, admittedly I forgot to mention her counterplay, but fine let's get into that. Her counterplay revolves around the Survivors needing to constantly make sure her drones are disabled because otherwise, they won't even be able to approach the loop without being harshly punished. There's a bit more but the point is that the moment SM goes up against a very competent team she gets curb-stomped usually, which is a very bad design flaw. It's similar to Trapper, except at least SM gets to punish uncoordinated teams, unlike Trapper who usually just gets beaten regardless. She still needs a rework because of both her flaws and her strengths.
And I don't really agree with that point about Singularity. Sure, he may not necessarily be the most difficult Killer to play technically but he is by far one of the most stressful and "active" Killers in the game by far. The thing is he has a really strong kit so its natural that you'd win with him more than SM, but no one wants to play a Killer who is so insanely stressful to play when all the Survivors have to do to counter him is hold M2 for a few seconds.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
This dead horse is becoming tiring to hear about.
False…..The 70% kill rate is due to hook suicides…not actual kills, so no it doesn’t.Also false. DCS are not included in the data report here in the screenshot. So no, it doesn’t.
Id be more than glad for Skull Merchant 1.0 to return since the 3 Gen System is in place, by all means.Skull merchant is b tier at best.
Let Freddy have his rework.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/3VSYLNR51IRQ/img-2133.jpeg
Freddy obviously deserves a rework more so than anything else in the game, but it doesn't mean SM can't be scrutinized either. I consider DC's and Hook suicide to be the same essentially considering how lobotomized the bots are. Either way, she still needs to be looked at eventually. And yeah, I wouldn't mind if BHVR did something similar to SM and gave her a reworked version of her 1.0 version. So long as she needs to use genuine skill and be rewarded for learning how to do so, then she will be a good Killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I’ll just lay out some facts:
When I face survivors that actually try, my games go normally and I’ve actually been stomped pretty hard by some groups. She is by no means the strongest Killer and she does have counterplay. Her power is oppressive in chase, but that’s kind of the point.
At the same time, survivors who give up (a lot) refuse to play against her for, well, mainly two reasons. 1, her reputation alone makes them just not want to bother. 2, they really just don’t like facing her.
Does she need another rework? Yes and no. I’d say yes just to shut people up about how miserable she is. I’d say no because she DOES have counterplay and she is manageable to face, but so many just flat out refuse to try and it’s frustrating because I have had very normal games against people who try and they feel hardly any different to any other game as any other Killer that I use.
Last point, I’m playing her on rotation with other Killers I like regardless of a rework or not, regardless of the DC’s.
Of course, she isn't the strongest Killer in the game and has counterplay, but that still doesn't change the fact that her power design is extremely flawed. Her power is hastily thrown together and requires BHVR to take a step back and seriously decide what they even want this Killer to be. For example, why is she a better stealth Killer than both Sadako and especially Dredge when she isn't even designed to be a stealth Killer? Why can she shut down loops faster than most Killers with just a single press of a button when Killers like Unknown and Wesker have to work for a down? Why does she have both haste, hindered, and tracking in her power when other Killers have to usually work to just get even one of those?
Sure, you can say that her Kill rate is massively inflated due to people not even bothering to try against her, but I don't entirely blame them for doing so, especially when the Skull Merchant is more often than not running a harsh build consisting of a bunch of gen regression perks that she still synergizes extremely well with. Of course, I don't think any survivor should give up against any Killer because it screws over everyone else and leads to an easy 4k most of the time but if there is such a massive problem with Survivors DCing against a Killer then it's almost always a symptom of something wrong with the Killer. I've already brought up Old Legion for example and how despite him not being an S-tier killer or whatever people still DC'd against him in mass because of how awful his power was to play against, and SM is no different.
Skull Merchant requires the Survivors to do way more than she needs to do in the match and due to that it always feels beyond frustrating whenever she wins because it feels undeserved. On the complete opposite side of the spectrum you have the Singularity who requires so much skill from the Killer player to do well with VS the survivors who just need to hold down a button to completely destroy him that it feels awful for the Killer player to play as him because well, it just doesn't feel like the Survivors deserved the win. It's because of that the Singularity is being scheduled for changes, so why not SM too? She needs to have a completely different power that requires her to put more Skill into the game and likewise be rewarded for doing so too. Also, in her current state, she makes the Knight an absolutely pointless Killer to play considering she just does almost everything he does, but better. And I'd know to considering I main him.
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As you can guess my Survivor experience isn't usually one that's fun most of the time, especially since for whatever reason I almost never come across Billy, Blight, and Oni.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700603#Comment_3700603
I never assumed you are a killer main. Heck I play both sides myself. I just don't think people understand hitboxes.
It's no different than the hitboxes of Huntress' hatchets being unfair for survivors.
Sorry for that then, but your original message stated it was something that the "Killer" player base was trying to get rid of, so it sounded like you were assuming on my end.
Regardless though it's a clear exploit because not only is it not intended at all, but there is no counterplay to it if it happens. Anyone who watches the vid I posted understands the hitboxes and how flawed they are. BHVR built the game off of mostly flat terrain and centered the Killers around it so now that maps are getting more detailed exploitable flaws popped up as a result of them not taking precautions for the Killers I mentioned making using them way more difficult for no good reason.
And don't bring up Huntresses hatchet hitboxes, that has already been addressed by the devs many, many times. It looks very unfair and can feel unfair but the devs have already put their foot down on it. Plus it's mostly a latency issue, not a hitbox issue.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
i want to be honest, i love techs in this game and i think crouch tech is one thing that should also stay in the game.
I was always against removing killer techs because they add more skill expression and increase the skill ceiling of a specific killer. Same with survivors, they also have techs and i think crouch tech should be removed only if e.g. Blight's hugtech truly gets removed.
Well, the difference between a tech that should stay and a tech that should go is how effective it is. The window tech was something I was really fond of, and so were a lot of other players because sure, it could help out a ton if the Killer didn't know about it but there was counterplay to it. If the Killer knew you were going to do it then you would instantly get hit and lose a ton of distance.
In comparison, the crouch tech has no counterplay to it and it takes no skill to us
ewhatsoever. The moment you see Demo, Billy, or Blight charge up an attack you can completely negate it with a button press. That's not tech, that's abusing a clear flaw in the game. Theres also the fact that it only specifically counters those Killers and a few others, not the entire cast making it even more unfair. -
@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700540#Comment_3700540
Just something killer playerbase need a tit for tat for now that hug tech is gone despite locker tech getting removed first.
Already assuming I'm a Killer main huh? You could at least bother to check my posts and easily see that I'm not one, but alright. This "tech" has been complained about for a while, this isn't some knee jerk reaction to hug tech being removed. You can see that the video above is more than year old. If you're going to defend this tech then by all means, please tell me why it's fair? Genuinely curious as to what your argument is.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwF8OY5Ff9s -
@hermitkermit said:
Sorry, I find this surprising, is crouching to dodge attacks not a way to counter? Is it considered an exploit by the community? It's the first im hearing of this and I'm genuinely curious.
That's not what crouch teching is. Crouch teching is abusing the fact that the hitboxes in DBD are badly designed and in return your able to completely avoid a hit just by crouching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQnzET5nL_Q -
@KeefCheif said:
This would honestly be so much fun. The more customization the better. I could easily see a lot of awesome content coming out of youtube, twitch, and other platforms if this happened.
Exactly, I feel like it'd be a great investment as it'd just bring so many more players onto DBD. Not only would it be great for casual players who'd just wanna have some goofy games but I'd be great for the comp scene as well. Imagining the games that would come out of this would be great, like a Demogorgon who's shred goes across the entire map or a Nemesis with 20 zombies.
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I feel ya on all of this. Years ago when I first started playing DBD in 2019 I had such a blast playing it as a Survivor main. Then after around 40 hours, I decided I wanted to try learning Killer too, which was also a blast. It wasn't perfect by any means and given how bad the balance was for a while there were definitely moments of frustration, but it really had a different vibe to it back then.
It's hard to pinpoint exactly where it happened but I honestly wanna say it was around Sadako's chapter that things really took a turn for the worse. DBD has never been exempt from people who play meta, and the days when Dead Hard, Rundying, and those other meta perks ran rampant felt beyond grating playing against them but now more than ever I find myself having the least amount of fun with the game despite the fact that its arguably in its most balanced state, and I feel like it's just how the devs and much more specifically the player base has changed.
As you said, the whole point of Survivor for me is that I really love having games that are both intense yet also feel like they're winnable. I've always enjoyed using lots of different perks but nowadays it feels like I just can't do that because of how much of a sweatfest games are now. I hate using gen rush perks since holding M1 is just about the most boring thing I can do but it really feels like if I don't bring Hyperfocus/Stake and focus on nothing but gens then I'm going to lose. It is so unbelievably common for me and my teammates to die at around two to three gens remaining because of the perks the killer brings, the playstyle of the Killer, and the usual solo Queue unreliability.
Pain Res, Pop, and other gen regression perks combined with the fact that the Killer is either proxy camping, slugging a lot, and or hard-focusing a survivor makes playing Survivor just miserable. When I bring off meta perks like Second Wind, Flashbang, Leader, or anything else that isn't meta I will almost always consistently get a game where if I had just simply brought meta I could've turned the whole game around, or I'll just get tunneled/camped/slugged. If I bring an anti-tunnel perk, then I'll get slugged, if I bring an anti-slug perk, I'll get tunneled, and if I bring an anti-camp perk then I'll get slugged. It really feels like if you don't stack anti-meta the game will somehow always magically pair you with a Killer who will screw you over by doing something you didn't have a perk for. Regardless though, even if you bring full meta as survivor it doesn't mean anything if your teammates just aren't that good at the game. Nothing hurts more than looping the Killer for ages only to see your teammates doing absolutely nothing or doing a gen only to see your teammate go down in less than 10 seconds.
Apart from that this is something more personal but I really just hate going up against most of the Killers in this game despite having the opposite philosophy as Killer and actually enjoy playing most of them. Unironically the only Killers I can even say I enjoy going up against are Hillbilly, Oni, and Blight. Every other Killer I just can't find myself having any fun whatsoever regardless of how long I manage to loop them.
Killer is much better for me, but man it is so, so far from being a perfect experience. On one hand, it is a lot more consistent than Survivor as I don't have to rely on teammate RNG and I tend to play pretty good Killers, but it comes with the side effect of being so much more stressful/frustrating than Survivor. Nothing is worse than playing Killer and screwing up two or three times and then having to consequentially play a lot more sweaty to gain back any amount of pressure you lost. I hate having to defend 3 gens, but I can't do much if I'm playing a Killer like Knight who has no mobility against Survivors who play very safe, and most importantly efficiently on gens. Plus map RNG can feel so extremely terrible if you get unlucky with the Killer your playing, like Hillbilly on RPD, Huntress/Trickster on Lerys, or playing an M1 Killer and having to deal with a map with way too many pallets.
The point is playing Killer feels so much more stressful/frustrating nowadays and Survivor feels miserable and hopeless most of the time, and unfortunately I just don't see that changing. Sure new perks or new Killers can rejuvenate the game's fun for a bit or sometimes even a while but the game just isn't what it used to be despite being a much more balanced game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
A game-changing perk is unlikely to be balanced because it can change outcome of a match.
I changed the title to be a little more accurate. Apart from the portal one I feel as if most of these aren't exactly game changing, just really powerful.
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@Cypherius said:
Too early to tell but to me he seems to be like Singularity. Really good in the hands of a dedicated player. But average for most.
Ranged attack (that damages over walls) + quick teleport with no stagger gives him map pressure and strong anti loop while also being good at playing in a territorial manner. His projectile is also very effective when proxy camping.
Cleansing the weaken is fast but he can counter that by breaking LOS. Perfectly doable in most maps.
Seems like an A tier killer to me.
-Damaging over and or through walls is extremely rare, and very, very map dependant.
-His teleport has a large amount of stagger making using it for anti loop very difficult unless you have his brown addon, making him somewhat addon dependant like Knight.
-His teleports can be removed very quickly by survivors
-His projectile really isn't good when it comes to proxy camping. If your proxy camping ans you hit someone with it they can just hold W and out range you, looking at you behind a wall. Either that or even if you do hit then then they can still go for a hook trade while your power is on cooldown. Trickster is an infinitely better proxy camper and so is huntress because they can combo hits extremely quickly, Unknown can't.
-Losing LOS is extremely risky as Unknown and not really a good strategy most of the time. Losing LOS means potentially giving survivors more distance and time to hold W, and plus the reveal mechanic is *extremely* forgiving with how it works. Unlike ghostface, as long as the unknown has any small part of his hit box or body outside, you can get rid of your weakness easily. Plus, his reveal has a mechanic where if the survivor is looking at you but suddenly loses LOS the weakness will still go down for an extra 2 seconds despite the fact that the survivor isn't looking at you.
-Like I said earlier, he is extremely map dependant. Loops that are too big to shoot over or hit survivors through make him awful. Open maps make revealing him a breeze, and indoor maps make hitting your power very inconsistent.
He's A tier on paper but in practice the moment you start going up against good survivors who know how to counter his power he falls apart quickly.
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@IronKnight55 said:
I decided to get him because he does look pretty cool but he is extremely boring to play. His power isn’t really fun.
I'm having some fun with him, but not as much as I thought I would. Not sure about anybody else but it really feels like his main power is his teleportation and not his ranged attack which feels really...bad.
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@Crazewtboy said:
I've seen a few people say you can place his teleport, but the power description said it happened passively, and since there is no button prompt I assumed it was random. How are people placing hallucinations where they want?
And I agree. He can feel strong in some aspects, and really weak in others. Good survivors aren't gonna give you a lot of opportunity to use UVX, so every shot you take has to be right on the money. I agree the bouncing of the projectile can feel really weird, and I'd have preferred if it just exploded on impact with walls as well. Once survivors learn how to play against him he'll probably end up shoved around high C tier if I had to guess
I'm pretty sure if you hold out your power as your hallucination is about to come out it'll stop the timer, then once you release the power button it'll continue the hallucination timer. It's pretty useful to do if you wanna guard a certain gen or place it around a corner in a loop or something.
And yeah, I gotta agree with you. Even now when he's just come out survivors are still able to counter his power decently, which means after a week or two once everyone really learns how to go against this Killer I don't think he'll be that good anymore.
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This would unironically be awesome to have, unfortunately, DBD is already apparently an extremely "frail" game to the point where the game somehow couldn't handle Nemesis having a third zombie so it'd probably never even be able to happen unfortunately.