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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744025#Comment_744025
How is it good for the game if there is no viable killer left to deal with SWAT SWFs besides maybe Prayer-Beads-Spirit? (And Prayer Beads is a nonsense add-on, but that's not the topic for this thread.)
That's just your flawed perception. All the killers are viable at high ranks. You can pretend all you want that they aren't, but the game statistics are against you and BHVR knows it, that's why they were confident in doing this nerf.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
Good. Takeover as a Nurse main for the SWF groups. I'm sure they'll need a few replacements. Most of the killers, myself included, are just frankly burned out with the circle jerk. It doesn't matter if she's only a little less or a lot less of her former self.
The constant coddling to the most vocal on the forums has wore thin. Frankly, it's about as amateur of a design decision a company can make, to balance their game based on forum politics. Each and every game that does so fines itself in decline.
Players attuned to it know they have to spend an inordinate amount of time on the forums protecting their preferred playstyle or others who dedicate their lives to helping nerf their competition will in their absence. Time they could be spending in game instead.
So have at it. No matter how one chooses to view it, each time a bold Nurse player took a match with confidence that they knew was SWF in the past can no longer and must now instead consider whether it is any longer feasible or worth the extra energy. One thing we all know is she isn't as good as she was before and that is demoralizing.
Spare me the drama.
Going by your theory that the devs are favoring Survivor Politics, how come Survivors got a boatload of nerfs over the past couple of years? And might I point out there's at least as much Killer Politics complaining about survivors and demanding nerfs on these forums?
If the devs weren't listening to the killer side how come MoM was nerfed? How come Decisive Strike was changed? How come Healing was nerfed across the board? How come Leader was nerfed? How come windows were nerfed? How come Palettes were nerfed? etc. etc.
Even Claudette's clothes were nerfed! You seriously don't have a leg to stand on if you expect us to believe that the devs are favoring survivor politics.
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Base Nurse Kit was fine but it wasn't ideal.
I mean, I can deal with Nurse base kit with difficulty, but I didn't think the game was better for it. And there are Nurses who are good enough that you can't really deal with them. This nerf looks better for the game.
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Well I still don't run Adrenaline, DS, BT or Dead Hard.
They can do whatever changes they want I will always play my way and enjoy the game as I see fit.
Not looking forward to the flood of Spirits incoming but hey what can you do.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743948#Comment_743948
A BnP completes 5% of the total survivor objective. In order to be equivalent it would have to reduce each survivors hook times by 6.25%.
The other thing to note is that Hook Time is not really how we measure a killer's progress.
It's by Hooks, not time on hook.
The actual equivalent of 5% survivor objective is a free hook -- a hook is around 8% of a killer's task each game. Basically a BNP is more comparable to something like an Ivory Mori.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743877#Comment_743877
Both of those and the purple toolbox (Comminus? Whatever) are the ones MOST USED for "gen rushing".
I still think getting 25% of a gen done instantly is a big deal. But it's okay for us to disagree.
25% on a gen is good, but it's not a big deal, and certainly nowhere near as big a deal as most Killer UR addons and offerings, or the syringe.
The BNP is a UR that is nowhere as good as other URs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743889#Comment_743889
25% is huge.
Imagine if it were possible for the killer to be given an ability to instantly remove 25% of a survivor bleed out timer, or the sacrifice timer?
25% wouldn’t seem so small then. There’d be a riot.
Bleedout and Sacrifice aren't equivalent to gen time, though.
Completing a gen doesn't kill the killer.
Bleeding out or getting Sacrificed ends the game for the Survivor.
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@The_Bootie_Gorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743832#Comment_743832
and don't even get me started on the copay...
And if you tell anyone you'll be in violation of HIPAA...
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Meg's always been loud. One of the reason I don't use her.
@Tawnieeee said:
Seems like they keep making survivors louder, which makes being stealthy much more difficult. You'd think that since Meg is an athlete, she'd be able to run ten feet without sounding like she's having an asthma attack...
Well the direction BHVR is taking the game is definitely making survivors less stealthy. Meanwhile killers are being made more stealthy.
It's a very weird direction to take the game to be honest.
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It's really not.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743718#Comment_743718
Right. Killer players need to always be on their toes, while survivors can coast through a match with their M1 key alone.
Clearly we're not playing the same game, if you think Survivors can escape just by pressing M1.
Either that or you have never played Survivor.
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@PickCollins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743718#Comment_743718
They get away now even if you do hit them
Well obviously you need to hit them twice unless they're running No Mither. Not counting stuff like Dead Hard and DS.
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@SaltySwag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743790#Comment_743790
And survivors are always eager to tell Killers just to wait and see.
Yet mention a Survivor nerf? You guys just skip the forum and go straight to review bombing. *remembers the great survivor bombs when Pallets stopped being around every corner, and sucking survivors to safety*
Better than Killers telling Survivors to "Evolve and Adapt" every time.
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@Endstille said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743497#Comment_743497
Aw no you don't understand not even by a longshot.
No I am not one of those people. It is just that Killers when they do not play any of the top 3 they Need to play perfect against survivors that play optimal. I am sorry if you are unable to find 4 People to play optimal but that is just the case and is what makes this game so mindnumbing easy as Survivor. The handholding to bad survivors like you, who cry "no counterplay!" soon spirit will have no counterplay, billy afterwards and there will be another because all that bad survivors like you can do is run bad loops is being lazy and not improving and Escape with a key at best.
No I am no nurse main so spare me your assumptions, i have more than enough Killers to play at r1 due to the fact that most survivors are boosted and bad nowadays. I talk About when survivors do play optimal and Nothing else and know what they do.
Koreans also eat fish that is yet Living so what? In order to play against something you have to understand how it is, how it functions and where the weakspots are. The people that can play the best against nurse are people that also play her and are actually good on her. Base Nurse has enough but since you do not play her, you dont know jack About it. So the streamer is doing the thinking for you? Is it that guy that did the Experiment to proof how op Nurse is when all he did manage to proof was how broken the add ons were? By that time everybody knew that already lol.
Let him do the same experiment, this week, just to see for comparison ok just without any add ons.
Uhm no I dont believe that a killer got bullied because he lost a game. Otz when he is getting bullied also swears on the channel (lol we managed to beat him 3 v 1 due to a disconnect no idea how you see that not as being bullied when he has more than half the game to kill at least one) zubat wrote he got #########.
Ofc it happens to people that they get bullied, not you ofc. Perfect Killer, perfect Survivor yet unable to play against base nurse. Cry more for nerfs with everything that gives you trouble and give yourself to the Illusion that you are good.
The converse is also true.
When a killer plays optimally, survivors need to play optimally or they all die.
Can we please stop with this Killer Victim mentality.
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I personally don't care about the fairness.
I am all for cross platform play and think that it would resolve a lot of queuing issues we have.
By all reports there are too many Survivors playing on PS4, resulting in long Survivor queues, while on PC there are too many Killers playing, resulting in long Killer Queues.
How about we just finally do crossplatform play and combine both populations so we can get better matchmaking.
Of course, this could backfire.... the general feedback I get is that survivor is easier on console and killer is harder, while on PC killer is easier.
It might end with some unexpectedly bad results and console survivors being gutted by PC killers.
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@SaltySwag said:
This is a serious question, not a meme.
DO ANY of the Devs that play Killer Main Nurse? At all?
I personally do not play nurse, but it hurts hearing that one of the best (and MOST SKILL INTENSE) killers in the game is getting a nerf, because Survivors are mad they can't hack it?
Whats next? Is Hag going to have to dip her finger in the mud to replace traps? Will Trapper need to take a few seconds to apply oil to traps that have popped before rearming them? Will Hillybilly and Leatherface need to stop after each chainsaw use and pour some gas into them? Is Myers going to need to blink and rub his eyes for a little bit once he leaves stalk?
If you don't play nurse I find it funny that you are accusing the devs of not playing nurse.
Not exactly convincing, for sure. Sounds like you are just playing bipartisan survivor/killer tribal politics.
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"WHY EVERY Nurse Main IS PISSED AT NURSE BASE KIT CHANGES"
Fixed that for you.
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I have maybe 100 of them across all my survivors. I don't really use them unless I'm about to prestige and just hoard them up when they're P3.
That said, SleepyWillo is correct. If they nerf instaheals, there needs to be a corresponding rework of Moris and/or Instadowns.
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Nurse players need to get even better then. It's a nerf that ensures skilled players get their man, while those who aren't as skilled need to git gud.
In other words, hit your strikes after the blink. If you can't, survivor gets away. Sounds good to me.
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@joshuashep22 said:
This way we can finally delete tunneling and make decisive strike more impactful to those who tunnel rather than a one time minor inconvenience
No.
DS should not be made more powerful. It is already a meta perk and a must-have for any survivor.
Game design problems should not be addressed with perks. The devs should make changes to the baseline game mechanics to address tunneling, not using perks as bandaid fixes.
Same with killer perks like Ruin.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
I'm half hoping it's a nerf to insta heals so we get another round of the forum exploding.
Personally I don't mind removing instaheals. Like 99% of my games are without instaheals.
Instaheals don't exactly grow on trees so I don't exactly use or rely on them.
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@Auron471 said:
Did they happen to announce what kind of changes that were going to be made? and what do you hope will be done to medkits with the change? I personally hope that they are taking steps to reduce the M1 to win gameplay of survivors, starting with medkits.
What does "M1 to Win" have to do with medikits?
If you are proposing adding minigames to medikits and gen repair, please no. I don't need nonsense like that in my hide and seek/tag game.
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Frankly I think Hag is a really strong killer.
And she's a cerebral killer and not just a twitch killer. People seem to downplay her and pretend she's just a useless M1 killer, which is nonsense. Her power can close loops. And if she uses her brains properly ahead of time she can catch you easily by properly herding you. And her teleport gives her good mobility to cover the map.
She is perfectly viable at red ranks.
When fighting Hag I prefer to stealth because getting in a chase with her is a headache.
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@Sn0wJob said:
Her base movespeed should definitely be %100 survivor movespeed at the very least
Yeah that's what I'm thinking. I think it's a fair trade off considering the cooldown.
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LOL would actually like to see this over Spirit.
But to be honest I hate fighting hag unless I'm packing Urban.
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Not me, gonna suck to be honest. I hate fighting spirit and rather fight nurse.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/739125#Comment_739125
This is not even an answer. No one should be forced too play a certain way just because of an unfair mechanic in the game. The devs simply need too add hatch grabs back, and keys won't be so overwhelming. Anytime I see a survivor with a key I always tunnel them so I don't have too worry about someone escaping for free when they did nothing (happens a lot).
That's rich.
You are saying nobody should be forced to play a certain way, but there's a lot of mechanics on both ends that force people to play in certain ways.
Survivors for instance are inconvenienced by simple perks (not even add-ons) so they're forced to cleanse totems, hide in lockers, etc. if they don't want to suffer at end game or be found by the killer. Killers need to slug when tunneling so they don't get hit by DS. Etc.
Keys aren't even overwhelming.
How many times have you had players escape with a key exactly? I sometimes build for key escapes and even then my key escape rate isn't greater than 1/5 games (that's specifically going for key hatch escapes).
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/739125#Comment_739125
At least one of it gets fixed soon. And you know what the difference between moris and keys is? Keys benefit the user, Moris punish the user.
If that were true people wouldn't be using Moris.
Moris benefit the killer a lot. Most killers are happier to get 4K than to pip.
Also using keys is a huge double-edged sword. Bringing a key into a match considerably increases the chance of either a Franklin's Demise or you get tunneled and killed first, unless the killer isn't paying attention or doesn't care.
@MemberBerry said:
Basically the argument for why keys are fine is "hurrlul mori hurrlul iri hatchets" 🙄. They had no problem with nerfing BNP and Instablinds, idk why not nerf keys.
Keys aren't as big a deal. Especially since you still need to work to get the key to work. The hatch doesn't spawn immediately, and the killer can easily take steps to counter the use of the key.
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The changes look good to me to be honest.
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@Yamaoka said:
Played multiple high rank survivor games today (obviously as Claudette). Got facecamped/1-hooked every game for no reason except for the few games where I managed to win all chases by losing the killer 100% of the entire trial.
And Claudettes are the evil ones? I really wonder why people even bother playing solo survivor at this point when all killers act like every solo survivor was a "toxic tbagging SWF player with flashlights, keys, brand new parts, spamming vault noise etc".
Honestly DBD is unplayable for solo players in my opinion. Obviously other people will have other experienced but these are mine. At least I ran all of these noobs for minutes and used every second on the hook to keep them busy. No 4k for bad killers on my watch.
Well, time to play killer again I guess since that's all DBD is good for these days unless you got a solid SWF team to play survivor with.
This is unfortunately true. I stopped playing Claudette because I noticed playing Claudette is like an 80% chance of getting tunneled.
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Nea.
Though I am speaking as a Survivor.
Nea mains tend to be the worst teammates and will happily skulk in a corner while you die on hook.
As a killer I don't really have a problem with any particular survivor, since I play in yellow ranks nobody really stands out.
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@vampire_toothy said:
Possibly, however I believe that we should try out the changes first before going forward with such an idea as movement speed is still a pretty big deal.
Well, I can't argue with that. But I think it's something that should be put on the table now that a cooldown is being introduced. A 4m/s move speed seems fair in my book so that Nurse still needs to rely on her blinks to win chases instead of just walking, but at the same time helps compensate for the downtime of the power.
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The nerf is definitely something to help people play survivor. Nurse is a big turnoff for survivors. This nerf has been in the cards for a long time. Spirit is probably next on the chopping block, but that change won't happen probably until next year.
Personally I think BHVR isn't doing enough fast enough to change the game fro the better, I'd like to see more updates more frequently. The game still needs a lot of balancing fixes done on both sides.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743373#Comment_743373
What about killers? You can't have this game if one side just gives up at high level because there's no solid counters anymore. When killers leave, what happens to those 'happy' survivors? Either they switch to killer, become unhappy, and leave, or they leave anyway because there's no challenge.
Killers drop money as well, ya know. But seeing as killers are boxed into three characters already if they want to be viable at high rank, that's a thin line to balance. This game isn't just survivor sided.
What about killers?
Let's not act like BHVR has been doing nothing but nerf killers left and right.
Killers aren't leaving, if anything the game has more killers than it's ever had. Historically speaking Survivors have borne the brunt of the nerfs for the past couple of years (which makes sense because Survivors were too strong at launch).
Two years ago Survivor lobbies took forever because there were too many survivors and not enough killers. The opposite is true today -- killer lobbies take forever while survivor lobbies are instant. It's because there are more killers playing today comparatively to survivors than it was in the past.
There've been tons of improvements to the killer side of things. From changes to lighting so killers don't have to squint all day long at dark corners, lighter clothing nerfs, hiding the killer build in the results screen, nerfing healing all around, nerfing palettes, nerfing windows, nerfing MoM, nerfing DS, etc. And that's not even talking about actual killer-specific buffs.
Killers aren't being neglected.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743229#Comment_743229
The taste makers have spoken. Honestly, I don't like this game. I find it not fun and boring. Blew a bunch of money on it and it's DLC so I feel kind of obligated to try to like it every once in a while. But, I find complaining about it the forums to be more engaging than actually playing it most of the times. It's like a case study of the psychology of an extremely broken game.
I would love it if this game was a lot more like a slasher movie; like Friday the 13Th. That game is everything this game isn't. If that game was programmed better and still getting updates; I'd be playing it instead of this. But, I have a friend who keeps dragging me back to this game because he wants to play it.
Survivors attacked and limping should move slower because, they're limping and that's what a human body does when it's limping. It doesn't burst across the stage and then move the same speed as normal after. There should be stamina to cut down the looping. People get tired. There is no reason loops should last forever. If you run three circles, you should be winded and not able to run without standing still to recharge. The entire hook thing is a joke. These are slasher characters. They should be able to skip the giant get out of jail free card and just be able to slash the Survivors to death like Jason does in Friday the 13Th.
The game should be hide and seek, not freeze tag. Friday the 13Th nailed that, and balanced for voice chat. This game is not balanced for voice chat and the hook system and loops feel more like freeze tag than hide and seek.
I don't understand why this game is so popular. But, I keep meeting friends and they keep wanting to play this because it is popular.
I think part of its popularity is that it hand-holds and babies the Survivors. Surviviors want hallow victories to feel good about. Not well fought for victories. DBD Survivors are the people who played Friday the 13Th for 5 matches, got their asses handed to them in the first three minutes of every game, and then wrote a bad review.
Friday the 13Th gives Jason and the Campers a way to counter everything the other can do to the other. So whatever side wins did so by fighting for it with skill. DBD is an M1 Survivor that doesn't even switch up skill check buttons and the entire defense stratedgy is to run in literal circles while other players hold M1 to finish the 1 main objective. (Hatch being a secondary last resort escape option.)
Wow, your really do drink the YouTube Kool Aid like no tomorrow.
Everything you said about this game is just regurgitated tripe from Streamers.
And it's hilarious because you don't even like this game, yet still play it like a sheep drinking Kool Aid! The game is popular only because the developers are survivor-sided? Give me a break. Anyone who looks at the patch note history can tell you there's been a ton of survivor nerfs in the past three years, far more than killer nerfs.
I give you props at least for talking about Friday the 13th.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743200#Comment_743200
Tier lists, not single. I've watched many and while slots do move around the three at the top are always at the top. So, it makes sense to have this idea when everyone who makes Killer content for Youtube says so. They're ranked higher than me and are far better at the game than I will ever care to be. Why wouldn't I take their word for it?
Because they aren't you.
Don't live by someone else's truth.
You even acknowledge that you can't play Nurse. It's hilarious how beholden you are to some YouTube personalities that even based on your personal experience you still want to live by their standards and not your own.
Nobody is denying the Big Three are the strongest killers right now, but to believe that no other killers are viable at Rank 1 is ridiculous.
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@Tucking_Friggered said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/742890#Comment_742890
Killers are going to get the last laugh. Most of the people willing to play SWF or groups that even look partially prepared are nurse mains. Once that option goes bye-bye the dodging will continue until moral improves.
Hardly sounds like a win for killers.
Sounds like a lose-lose for everyone.
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Nurse is not a "solid counter" to SWF.
Strong nurse is a bad bandaid fix to SWF at best.
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Not sure how the changes will play out.
But the devs should address Haddonfield loop by changing Haddonfield, not changing killers.
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Dailies? Those exist?
I have like gotten nothing but Killer dailies for the last two months. In two months I, a Survivor Main who mainly plays Survivor, have only gotten like 5 survivor dailies. And each one of those five gets replaced by a killer daily after one match because of some stupid bug.
I haven't bothered with dailies in months.
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You can punish DCs, but that won't fix the fundamental flaws in the game's design.
People DC for a reason: frustration.
The game has an unusually high level of frustration for a lot of people on both sides. To fix DCs, these design flaws need to be addressed, rather than just using a bandaid fix which is "ban the DCers."
You will soon run out of people playing this game if that is your only solution.
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@PoisonN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743140#Comment_743140
The Spirit will get destroyed after The Nurse, why people are pretend that won't happen soon?
Not pretending. I'm pretty sure Spirit is next on the chopping block.
That doesn't mean that we won't be spending a few months minimum playing against tons of spirits.
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@Aikanaro said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743140#Comment_743140
I must disagree, at least with Spirit you can try to mindgame a little and counter, Nurse is so broken that goes thru walls and ceilings like nothing.
Basically a god mode.
I'm going by the numbers, and you can feel it in the community.
A lot of posts here on this board and on the steam discussion board today are people complaining about Spirit, not Nurse. The poll we had a few weeks back voted Spirit as the most hated killer, not Nurse.
Yes, there are people who complain about Nurse, but there are a lot more people complaining about Spirit these days than Nurse.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743140#Comment_743140
I like facing spirit :P
There will always be exceptions! But as you recall from the unofficial community poll we had a few weeks back, Spirit dominated as the "Killer I hate playing against the most" while Nurse was surprisingly well-loved.
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Pretty sure Spirit will be next on the chopping block.
"Just as planned."
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@CrowFoxy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743111#Comment_743111
Ok but neither is keys, insta heals, or even swf. Swf is healthy for cosmetics and gameplay times, but knowing where killer is 24/7 so your squad can eat gens isn't.
And I agree with you. Keys, Instahells, Moris and Instadowns should all be removed from the game.
SWF? SWF is fine. SWF if removed from the game will probably kill the game -- not from a mechanical point of view, but from a customer point of view. A lot of people are going to stop playing a co-op game when they can't play with their friends.
That doesn't mean SWF shouldn't be addressed. Both Survivors and Killers have been suggesting changes to bridge the power gap between SWF and Solo Queue for ages, so that killers can then be adjusted to compensate. BHVR refuses to act on these suggestions, many of which are very good suggestions.
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@PoisonN said:
Dark age? Not for the survivors
I know right? The game has been excessively bright since November last year. There is no Dark Age, this is the Bright Age. Dead in Daylight.
Also, contrary to the popular narrative, a nurse nerf is actually bad for survivors, for reasons the OP stated. This means we'll be seeing even more Spirits.
Spirit is actually the #1 killer survivors hate playing against, not Nurse.
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@altruistic said:
All these tears. What happened to the adapt and overcome mentality?
Only applies to survivors, not killers. What, didn't you read the Killer's Rulebook™?
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@beatddb said:
If these Nurses changes go through, all people will see at red ranks will be Spirit, which means she will eventually get a """slight change""". SWF will dominate red ranks and killers playing something else instead of Spirit will get destroyed.
If this happens but Spirit does not get her """slight change""" like the nurse, people will start using the anti spirit build (Iron will, spine chill, etc) making her a little girl with a shiny stick.
And thats how you nerf the two reliable killers in one change. Good luck killing someone at red ranks
Just so you know, Iron Will and Spine Chill are strong perks to use against Nurse.
This Nurse Nerf will change nothing in the builds used in high ranks.
You are still going to see a ton of Adrenaline/BT/DS/DH builds.
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@AkiTheKitten said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743039#Comment_743039
Yet she's the only Killer that can deal with a 4 swf with BT, DS, Adrenaline and insta heals. We should buff weaker killers instead. The Nurse is just a symptom of a bigger problem: weak killers
You're measuring killers against the best possible survivor loadout with items and addons. Survivor items and add-ons aren't even as easy to come across as killer addons, because survivors don't make as much BP per match as a killer.
Let's not pretend that every match a killer gets into has insta-heals.
That's even worse than pretending every survivor game is against an Ebony Mori.
If Survivors need to use all the best perks and add-ons to be competitive with a Nurse, what does that tell you about how powerful she is?
A change to nurse is necessary. She isn't healthy for the game.