Kilmeran
Kilmeran
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- Kilmeran
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@bubbascal Even on paper these design changes make me wonder how much experience whoever did them has with the game. I can't believe some of these made it past the initial brainstorming sessions, to be honest.
I don't know what else to say except that speaking as someone with game design experience, and given so many decisions in the past year or so from the team, that I've pretty much lost all confidence in them as a customer.
I have to honestly consider whether or not I really want to continue investing time in this game. Which is a shame, because it had so much potential.
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@I_am_final said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/423152#Comment_423152
i fell like the deep wound timer in the TR is bad i mean i can understand if he is chasing you
@I_am_final It's especially poor design since they also increased his TR.
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@ricardo said:
Thats why i didnt buy a single dlc after freddy scam. They just want to make every killer a regular,boring m1 killer with crap abilities rather than coming with unuqie ideas that make killers fun to play
@ricardo I just bought Legion about three weeks ago after returning from a hiatus, I can say with confidence that I am extremely unlikely to ever purchase a DLC from Behavior again.
It's one thing when a game like Overwatch or Paladins completely nerfs a character since I get those for free. Nothing spent, nothing lost. But when I spend real money on a character, even had I purchased it back in December, and it's gutted a mere four months later, and this isn't the first time a company has done this is with a real-money DLC character (see: Freddy), I'm done.
Just remember how the saying goes, for those that got hit with both Freddy and Legion: Fool we once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.
And I'd strongly recommend not opening your wallet and giving them a third opportunity.
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@Benjamina That's not always the case. I run top-of-the-line internet (and it's damned expensive), and even when all of my survivors have green ping in the lobby, I still get survivors in some matches that are randomly lagging like hell.
There's definitely something going on, and it certainly isn't always killer-internet sided. I'm wondering if it isn't connected to the game-side DCs people are also suffering, which also seems to affect survivors more than killers.
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The way the company has handled several things lately just made a single portion of the Legion change the last straw. When I had enough of how the Overwatch team was handling that game, I stopped spending money on it over a year ago. Did I still play it? Yes. But I no longer spent money on it.
Behavior has reached that point with me. I can't see myself spending future money on their DLCs. And I don't even care what perks they have. I play casually so already work-around the perks I don't have unlocked. I can continue to do so.
But like with the other game, I no longer have enough confidence in this team to invest additional money into the product. Which is a damned shame.
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@SasukeKun said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422913#Comment_422913
All i read on their forum post just translates to "Make sure to report people playing the character we designed and already put through the PTB and has been on live". Why are we getting punished for bad design?
@SasukeKun Ah, you're referring to the huge red box of text. Don't get me started on that. Any other game studio would have disabled the add-ons until a fix could be implemented. But not Behavior. The exploit was allowed to stay on live, and now they want the players to police it.
No thanks. I refuse to file a report on the matter. They should have handled it correctly. I'm not doing their job for them for free.
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@Ultima said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/422033#Comment_422033
When are you going to stop pandering to streamers who only play survivor? You've removed legions knife and gave him a feather duster to hit survivors with. It's embarassing.
@Ultima Good luck with that. Or haven't you noticed that the so-called Fog Whispers are pretty much the beginning, middle, and end of Dead by Daylight marketing nowadays. And a majority are survivor mains, so of course they need to be kept happy.
It's as bad as it was in Overwatch, and the OWL Pros having way too much say in that game's balance. I swear, between that and the inability to nerf or buff without using a sledgehammer, it's like Activision-Blizzard purchased Behavior or something. That, or maybe they hired a bunch of former Blizzard Devs. Because it's the exact same crap, different game.
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The power depletion on a missed Frenzy attack is the only issue I have, and it's enough that if I could get a refund on this DLC, I would.
First of all, even when all my survivors have green ping in a lobby, I still get survivors lagging, teleporting, and flickering in a match. Issues that make an attack miss. So, thanks to the shoddy tech behind DbD, playing Legion can be impossible.
There have been posts and posts over time about the lag problem, so it isn't as if the team is unaware. And yet, this was the route they chose to go with the power? It destroys any confidence I had left in them.
If that change goes live as-is, Ash will be the final DLC I'd have purchased from Behavior, because at that point their development decisions are no longer something I trust enough to spend additional money on their product.
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Given the lag that plagues DbD, even when my survivors all have green ping in the lobby, the change that a missed hit in Frenzy depletes the power is just a step too far.
It would be one thing in a stable game, but DbD is not stable.
The fact that they went that route even when there have been posts and posts about the lag in DbD is just mind-boggling, and destroys my confidence in this team. I'm unable to get a refund on Legion. And I am extremely reluctant to spend further money on DLCs from Behavior. Their understanding of issues with DbD is no longer something I trust.
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@Shad03 The deletion of Frenzy on a missed attack was the only place I drew the line.
As I've said in other threads already, I have top-of-the-line internet. Survivors in my lobbies are generally all green ping. And in the actual matches, I still have some survivors lagging like all hell. I've missed swings that looked like clear hits because of that crap.
And now doing so with Legion screws Feral Frenzy?
I've lost all confidence in this team actually understanding the tech of their own game, even though posts have been made and made about the lag. If I could, I would Steam refund this DLC now. As it stands, I am very reluctant to purchase more from them in the future. I don't care what Perks they include. I already work-around not having all Perks unlocked, I'll keep on doing so.
If this is how the team fails to understand issues in the game, I have zero confidence in the upcoming Freddy rework.
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@Carpemortum There is actually a lot of cross-over between table-top and video game. When I landed my video game industry gig, my table-top design, balance, and writing experience served as the portfolio.
There are actually video game industry Devs that also work in the table-top industry. For example, the owner of Pinnacle Entertainment, which does the award winning table-top RPG called Savage Worlds, was also a Dev on City of Heroes, did early work on Champions Online, and was one of the early Game Producers on Neverwinter.
And there are others. That was actually how I first made my video game industry contacts.
I didn't personally care much for video game work, and finally retired from the table-top industry summer 2018. I went back to what I love: fiction writing.
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@Carpemortum said:
@Kilmeran :O are...are you back?? Or did you just want to see the Legion changes and the responses?
@Carpemortum I decided to come back. Between a couple folks here and some messages at Steam, it seems a select few missed me. Plus, seeing the absolute asinine change to the Feral Frenzy missed swing in a game plagued by lag, it became a point I was going to call Behavior out on.
It is one of the dumbest design choices I have seen in a game that only runs smooth if you pray to the right gods or sacrifice a puppy. And this comes from a Killer host that is on top-of-the-line and expensive internet. And I still have flickering survivors in my matches.
It's becoming clear that the design team doesn't understand their own game in actual, everyday-man play.
That change alone, and the absolute lack of confidence it brings from me in Behavior, is why I will be reluctant to purchase further DLCs from them, since I can't get a Steam refund on this garbage now.
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@not_Queen Given the lag that happens in your game, at what stage is making a missed Feral Frenzy hit deplete the entire power seem like a good idea. It's like the team doesn't even understand what lag issues the regular-Joe player base suffers in your game. And I don't care about dedicated servers. For one, they're months away at best and this is the here and now. For two, the proof will be in the pudding, as they say. It's just as likely for a studio to have weak servers and shoddy netcode that brings its own host of issues as it is to knock it out of the park.
I'm on top-of-the-line internet. And I still have flickering, laggy survivors in my games as a Killer host. Even when they have green ping in the lobby. At this point, I have zero confidence in the team moving forward. It's a shame I can't get a Steam refund on this DLC now. But trust in the fact that I will be very reluctant to purchase any new DLCs moving forward.
If this missed attack depletes Frenzy was the team's idea for how to fix Legion, then I hold absolutely zero hope for the prophesied Freddy rework.
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@Poweas Some killers, like Billy, come down to muscle memory with the sprint, the chainsaw flick, et cetera. After a while of not playing such characters, the muscle memory has to be built again to one degree or another.
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@MystiKasT I would say the devs do care, as do people like Peanits and Not_Queen. But what the Devs handle and work on is determined by their bosses, not them, themselves.
Now, in the case of the Game Director, you have to take Cote with a heavy grain of salt. I have nothing personal against the guy at all, and say this only as a paying customer of the game, but his previous employer years ago was EA, and I think it shows in a lot of ways if you are at all familiar with how EA handles things, or some things they've said to their players over the years.
Again, nothing personal against the guy. But in my customer opinion it's about time for a leadership change.
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@Carpemortum You are absolutely right. There are some streamers I watch purely for the game play. If they switched games, I'd no longer watch them.
Then there are streamers that I gladly subscribe to, like Krippler and Gentle_Giant over in Realm Royale. I happened to discover them via R.R., but subscribe to them because they're good people that run a good stream. Gentle_Giant is just a chill guy. Krippler is an injured New York police officer that is currently on medical leave (he starts back in several weeks, just had back surgery).
If those two switched games, I'd still watch them and hang with them when I have the time. That's why I subscribe to them: because of them, not the game. Most people I've met on Twitch who financially support a streamer are the same way.
And yet, there is not a single DbD streamer that I've felt any desire to financially support. Looking around, though, not shocking.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/418679#Comment_418679
Yet you still know about the mend bug...
Also I'm talking about the friends you make playing the game, not the people you already know. None of my IRL friends and family play DBD, or any video game, but I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about the 100+ people I know from just playing the game a lot, of which a good chunk are on my friend's list.
It's good that you play that way. I stopped letting people I meet in a game onto my friends list many years ago. I play many games at once. Right now it's Overwatch, Paladins, WoW, DbD, and Realm Royale. I can go weeks or months without launching any particular game as one or more on that list command my attention and interest.
So, I don't deal with in-game friends anymore. I've no need to. Hell, the only three games I even own on Steam are Borderlands 2, Dead by Daylight, and Realm Royale. That's the extent of my Steam library.
I would say my largest library is the Bnet launcher, where I have WoW, Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm, Hearthstone, Starcraft 2, and Diablo 3 installed. And I don't need in-game friends there, because pretty much all of my friends and family are also long-time Blizzard players. We already have our groups and teams pre-made.
So, no, we don't do the random in-game friends thing. Haven't in several years.
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@thesuicidefox I know about it because I come to the forums. I'm in the minority.
Now, do you think I know about bugs or exploits in WoW or Overwatch or Paladins? I don't. Because I no longer go to those forums or reddits, and when I play those games I am only playing with real life friends and family who don't go to those sites either. We don't friend people in those games, we've no interest in it, and play only in our chill, closed circle.
I couldn't even tell you what is on PTB in those games, because until the patch notes go on the launcher on release day, we don't follow the game's news. We just login and play, then logout and go about real life.
Once I quit these forums, guess what? It will be the same situation for me and DbD. I won't know what's broken or what's coming until the patches go live and leap onto my screen at login.
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@thesuicidefox You doubt that someone that plays this game doesn't have friends who play this game?
I have zero friends who play this game. Not a one. They've zero interest in the new-player grind in DbD, and even less interest in a hide-and-seek asymmetrical game. Not one friend or family member even owns a copy of DbD. They're happy in their MMOs and team-shooters.
If I wasn't stupid enough to come to the forums, I wouldn't know jack about DbD news.
Even my Steam friends list is only real life friends and family.
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@Zagrid But that's the risk you take when you stream a game, and it's true of a majority of high ranks in games. Hell, I also play Overwatch and Paladins, and I watch high-ranked streamers in both those games. And Overwatch has a player base that absolutely dwarfs this one.
And in the high-ranks, they can be in queue for an easy 30-40 minutes. High ranks are always a low population.
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@brokedownpalace It's not just you. I played DbD for 3 hours last night, and I am not exaggerating when I say that a majority of my games took forever to load in, and when they did had only three survivors.
Then from there, many more had at least one survivor that was obviously lagging like hell, and would just DC from the match. Which I can't blame them for.
I play killer and have top, expensive as hell internet due to my job, so it isn't on my end as host. There is something going on here, especially when all four survivors always showed green ping in every lobby.
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@thesuicidefox That's complete BS.
My wife, several friends (we're in our 40s) and even my 25 year old son game regularly. And guess what? Not a single one of them ever hit a game's forums or reddit. Never. Not once. They only know about changes when the patch notes appear on a game's launcher on at the load in screen (like DbD does).
None of them hear any "gaming news" that so-called "travels fast in gaming communities." And do you know why? Because like a lot of players out there, they don't become members of any gaming community. They login, play a game, logout, go about life. They don't join clans or guilds or any of that. They play whatever game together, and that's the extent of the community: a closed circle of real life friends and family.
I'm the only one that hits forums, and outside of being here at DbD, I rarely do that anymore. I no longer hit forums or reddit for Overwatch or Paladins or any of the other games we play. Why? Because I got sick and tired of the self-serving juvenile mentality of the so-called "gaming community." The DbD "community" is wearing thin as well.
Forums and reddit are a minority of any player base. Most people just play solo, or with their own friends, and ignore a "community." That's been known for years, and has even been stated at E3 and other conventions by developers over the past 8 years or so.
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@Jimsalabim Same thing has happened to me multiple times.
Sometimes, as well, in the post-match screen where it lists all the players, ranks, loadouts, and BP earned, it shows my rank as being one or two ranks higher than it actually is.
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@PhantomMask20763 Legion is absolutely fun. As for people complaining about him (exploit using aside), they're a dime-a-dozen. Pick a game, and people will complain that a character is OP. Brigitte, Mei, and Doomfist (post-buffs) in Overwatch; Lian and Dredge in Paladins; for a time it was Garrosh, Samuro, and Sylvanas in Heroes of the Storm; Vengeance Demon Hunter in WoW PvP; back in the day it was Ice Tanks in DCUO PvP; and the list goes on.
Gamers, when they play a PvP game long enough, get into a set-pattern of play style. And when characters come along that disrupt that, I've found that people tend to cry OP and nerf instead of adapting their play style. The problem is that a lot of gamers expect a one-size-fits-all play style, and that's not how PvP games work when you're dealing with characters and kits.
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@MystiKasT You are absolutely correct. This is one of the absolute worst gaming communities I have encountered in all my years of online gaming. I mean, Overwatch and LoL have a reputation for toxicity. I've played Overwatch for three years, and the DbD community is worse by a New York mile.
I have match chat permanently closed. Damned shame that has to be done. Now, for the record, I don't get offended by them. I have a very thick skin. You have to in my career, anyway. But after a bit, it just detracts from the fun of playing DbD. It's like playing with a bunch of edgy children.
It's the same with these forums. This is likely my last post. I already said my farewells to a few people privately about an hour ago. This isn't a game forum. It's an Us vs Them cesspool of negativity and self-serving interests. If I was a mod or community manager for this forum, I'd be embarrassed to wear the title. And I've done forum moderation before. I wouldn't touch the position for these forums for any amount of pay.
Anyway, I'd keep match chat closed, delete the forum ULR from your memory or block it in Chrome, and just forget about interacting with anyone except friends you might SWF with. It's really the only sane way to try to enjoy DbD.
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@Detective_Jonathan Oh, and as far as the exploit question: in my opinion, it is a yes and no answer.
If you are someone who visits the forums or reddit or wherever, and are aware that it is a bug, then using it is an exploit because you are clearly using the bug to your distinct game advantage.
If you are just a player who logs in, reads the descriptions, thinks it will help as written, and are not aware it's a bug, then technically you are exploiting, but you aren't conscious of the fact.
The first deserves a ban. The second does not. And since it is impossible to tell which type the player is, that's likely why no one has been banned for it that we know of.
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@DetectiveCookieh Lucky for you, I play Freddy and Doc a hell of a lot more than Legion. Now, don't get me wrong, I personally like Legion. I just like Freddy and Doc more.
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Never mind. Post withdrawn. I'm wasting my time explaining stuff to people with zero internal knowledge of the game industry.
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Well, you lost me at the Legion sucks. Now, you'll have to excuse me. I'm going to go run around and stab a bunch of people for revenge. I'm even going to tunnel someone in your name. 🤣
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@PigNRun You do know what sarcasm is, right? Or that the Asian grinder portion of my post was obviously tongue-in-cheek about the DbD grind?
Amazing, that that was your big take away. No wonder I'm about to give up coming to these forums.
And for the record, when you only have a few hours a week at the most to play DbD, no, you cannot get all perks on a single character in a reasonable amount of time, considering first you have to unlock all the god-damned teachables. For those of you who play several hours a day, or play it as your career as a streamer, it's different. But that's true of any game on the western market for those people.
The average gamer doesn't play several hours a day.
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The problem is that for some mind-boggling reason, they decided that DbD should only have a single game mode: Ranked. So, what we now have is an obvious casual-competitive hybrid instead of a true ranked mode.
There is a very good reason why pretty much every other game with a ranked mode has a separate Quick Play (casual) mode. Ranked is for the serious players that want to try hard in matches, utilize mostly meta-builds, and grind up the rank ladder. Quick Play is for those who just want to get in, mess around, try some off-the-wall builds, and just chill as they play. Sometimes, the two modes even have slightly different rule sets to handle the two different play styles as well.
As long as their Ranked mode has to appeal to both the competitive players and the casual players at the same time, it will always be a hot mess. This is especially true for the survivor side of the game, where you can have competitive and casual players on the same team, and the casual way of playing cost the competitive player pips.
And while, yes, that can happen in a Ranked mode even with a casual mode available, right now there is absolutely no other option for the casual player. So, it's going to screw over the competitive player more frequently.
Therefore, Rank reset is just another carrot on the stick DbD grind to keep people playing and/or coming back for that week or two.
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Until about a year ago when I stopped playing the genre, I played MMOs since 1999 when EQ1 came out. Let me tell you, I've played some grindy games in my time.
Dead by Daylight, at this point in time, would make an Asian grinder throw up their hands and walk away. Something needs to be done. On top of that, it's not just a grind, but a grind completely governed by RNG. It's asinine, especially with DLCs being released so often.
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Behavior nerf Mettle of Man?
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@Detective_Jonathan I assume you mean in the game (since he's moving normally to me in the gif). In which case, I agree.
Hell, I would have absolutely loved for him to have some voice lines during a chase, too.
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Silence Ash? Never. He needs more lines.
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@littlejohnny said:
They are going to give Ash a chainsaw and Laurie a shotgun, so they can stun killers with something besides a wooden pallet. They are going to give killers a padlock for the hatch that needs to be opened with a crowbar, to get rid of a cheesy escape.
Ash a chainsaw? I say . . .
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@PhantomMask20763 Over-powered. Yeah, ignorance is bliss. I remember over-powered. I remember March 20, 2018 and Brigitte at launch in Overwatch. That was over-powered. 🤣
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@Poweas I have to agree. Hag is one of the killers I don't have the teachables unlocked for yet, and I'm not even putting the 1+ million BP into her for them. Until such time, maybe one day in the far distant future, when Hex perks aren't so easy to get rid of and last for more than 60-90 seconds in a game, there are far better Perks to use.
I see zero point in running Ruin with how things are for Hex perks. It's like purposefully gimping yourself and only running a three Perk loadout.
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@Turtlesrock Yeah, well, it is far from the first or the only one. I play online games that have been out since 2011 and 2012 and bugs still persist.
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I stopped reading as soon as I saw Killers are OP in the first sentence. Thank goodness they stated it so early. Saved my eyes from running into that obscene wall of text.
Apparently, the concept of when a paragraph break should happen is as foreign to them as how to play against killers.
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@Th3Nightmare Well, given that they specifically said the reveal would be in May, it's fairly safe to assume that they are firm on the May timetable for whatever internal reasons.
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@Detective_Jonathan I just wanted to clarify, because for the console players here at the forums, they don't have access to PTB. So for them the only release is the live release.
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@jackkn12 No one knows yet. Info will be revealed next week.
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@BottledWater Yeah, I don't understand it. Are some folks new to online gaming? Developers mention things coming, sometimes even the dates they expected it, and things get delayed. Happens a lot in pretty much every game I've played over the past 20 years of online gaming.
But then we get players posting like that over and over again, and people wonder why developers stop leaking upcoming features.
It's just as bad with gaming news sites, as a developer for another company mentioned recently. The moment a developer says they would love to have X-feature in the game at some point, there go the articles and videos proclaiming that "X is coming to game Y!"
And the guy isn't wrong.
The whole thing has gotten asinine, and I don't blame developers anymore for keeping quiet on things.
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@Slayer: Bring it. But always remember, a killer needs no excuse to Mori. Just end their little lives.
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@Detective_Jonathan I seriously doubt it will be the week of the 23rd since it has to go to PTB first. And especially since they'll want the End Game and Legion changes tested.
More than likely the release will be sometime in May.
Unless you meant PTB that week, but I think the OP was asking about the actual release.
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@Dwight_Fairfield In the announcement: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/57097/developer-update-april-2019#latest
Go to Updates, Legion is the second. He is slated as an update. Then, read further down the post, and you'll see that Freddy is a full-on rework.
There's a difference. Folks who think Legion is getting reworked are in for a disappointment.
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@PhantomMask20763 Don't worry bud, I'm in the same boat but for a different reason. I'm still a baby killer and ranked up way too fast during the free weekend. Then I started jumping through the yellow ranks and toward green. And doing so with barely any perks unlocked on all but one killer.
Now that rank reset happened and I dropped back down, I need to avoid pips while I farm BP and get crap unlocked so I can have some perks before I rise again.