Kilmeran
Kilmeran
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- Kilmeran
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So . . . you complain about New Killers not understanding prestige, then state you're at Rank 3.
Do you even know what you're talking about?
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@tehshadowman33 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/564472#Comment_564472
Pretty much, yeah. Obviously, you need perks like Windows of Opportunity and Deja Vu to introduce new players to the mechanics of the game. But you don't want something like old MoM to creep into the game that mitigates risk (get hit 3× and get 1 free hit) for newcomers but it's insanely overpowered for people who know how to use that 1 free hit to do crazy things like 100% safe unhooks in front of killers face (noobs won't know you could do this).
That said, if map reworks are not good enough, I'll probably just play Deathgarden. There's only so much Nurse I can play before I'm bored of the whole ordeal.
@tehshadowman33 More people should play Deathgarden. 😀
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I can only play solo. None of my family or friends will touch DBD to become new players because of the insane grind.
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@MandyTalk I'm in the U.S., born in 1972, a kid in the 80s, came into adulthood in the 90s, and even before the internet people were toxic. In the 80s, I watched white people (including extended family members) throw around the N-word like it meant nothing, including to black people. In the 90s, I watched people, as the buzzwords today describe it, bully and troll people face to face, particularly with a group of friends backing them up.
The primary difference today is the internet, but not in the way people claim. Back then, you walked away or avoided said people and you could turn some of it off, so to speak. With everyone connected online 24/7 in one form or another, not only is that not as easy to do, but the "social net" is also much, much wider, so it also reels in more of those people as a result.
Being connected to such a wide social net 24/7 skews perceptions that things are suddenly more prevalent today. That isn't necessarily true. Just like the 24/7 media news cycle would have people believe that crime is higher today in the U.S. than in the past, when the FBI crime statistics clearly show otherwise.
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@BadMrFrosty I don't see Jeepers Creepers ever happening. It was mentioned before here at the forums, and there was a significant outcry against it due to the creator's sexual predator history. Hell, that history even got the third film pulled from screenings by theaters.
The fact that given the creator's history, they used a child molestation plot-line in #3 also added fuel to the fire.
I'm not advocating for or against the Jeepers Creepers franchise, as I keep my personal opinions private. I'm just stating what's what with it.
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Never mind
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@BadMrFrosty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/563482#Comment_563482
Even if, say, BVHR decided to scrap the ranking system and use hidden MMR instead.. would that really solve the problem? Even if a game is "just for fun", losing because of reasons outside of your control (bugs, map design, killer design, etc) doesn't exactly make anyone feel good or like they had an enjoyable experience. Whether you brand a game casual or competitive will not impact how people feel if they believe they've been cheated out of a win they deserve, especially if there was legitimately nothing they could do about it.
That's the crux of this game's problem. Killers, on average, are not given adequate tools to do their job and have artificial limitations placed on them that hamper a player's growth (not counting the few exceptions to this rule).
@BadMrFrosty In my opinion, that comes down to business. They need Survivors happier more than Killers, despite many people playing both sides. They seem, at least from my perspective, to worry too much about the 4 players over the 1 player, so to speak.
Again, same thing in Deathgarden has happened. Scavengers hated instant executes when downed. Player numbers plumetted. The latest patch changed it, gave them two lives, and effectively hurt hunters.
And guess what? Their player numbers spiked briefly, and have yet again plummeted down again. And they're even lower now than before the latest patch.
Sometimes I feel like BHVR is reading their player base completely wrong, and Deathgarden is starting to feel like a confirmation on that.
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@Kaelum I thought the only reason the wiggle mechanic existed was to help destroy one's keyboard. 🤣
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@BadMrFrosty I'm going to be honest. I wouldn't play a Behavior asymmetrical game as any type of serious competitive game, any more than I would play Blizzard games as such (despite them trying to make Overwatch into one with the joke of an Overwatch League).
Behavior doesn't balance around that type of serious play, they balance for the casuals. It's the same issue with Deathgarden: Bloodharvest. People cried that the power role, the Hunter, was a power role. Enter the latest patch and the whole "mercy" change to the game and Scavengers getting two lives now.
Now Hunters who post are claiming the change was BS and reduced them to the same role as Killer in DBD: a joke.
Behavior doesn't balance for serious competitive play. The misconception on that is having only a Ranked mode to their games. Something they claim is for matchmaking. Well, that was an asinine decision that causes such an identity crisis. They should have just gone with a hidden MMR matchmaking system.
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@Crazewtboy Add me to the list of not interested in a Stranger Things crossover. I was unimpressed with the show, and I'm even someone who was actually a kid in the 80s, when it takes place (I was born in '72).
I do think the show was over-hyped based purely on that 80s nostalgia factor. All in all, I didn't find the show all that great nor original.
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@Surazaku That has been my impression of Tru3 as well.
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@Surazaku Although I, generally speaking, haven't been watching Twitch much the past month outside of dropping in about Ghostface (I have a new novel due, so have been swamped, also why I haven't been in DBD much), Tru3 is actually the only major Fog Whisperer I enjoy watching. 😉
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@BadMrFrosty I agree. And without any map pressure ability, and the teleport from what I saw today doesn't qualify, he'll just be yet another low-to-mid tier M1 killer.
I.e. it looks like a lateral rework, and doesn't change much about his placement in the game. The PTB will tell for sure, but that's my first-blush opinion so far.
Luckily for me, I play occasionally so will never, ever hit Red ranks. Freddy might be viable where I play at. Hell, I haven't played in a few months and have rank reset back to gray ranks currently. I doubt I will ever get beyond beginning Green Ranks on my play time with monthly resets. DBD isn't my only game, and Overwatch is still my main game three years running now, since that is what I play with the wife (she's zero interest in DBD).
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@BadMrFrosty Certainly not of their vaunted, popular Fog Whisperers that I've been looking into concerning GF. Tuning into their streams is usually against my better judgement, but I held my breath and did it to find out about GF.
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@BadMrFrosty Oh, trust me, I'm not sold on the Freddy rework yet in the slightest. I'm just going to try the PTB before I form a solid opinion.
And depending on when you were typing, I added to my post you quoted. Read the second paragraph. Right now, I'm taking the hit-to-full sleep with a heavy grain of salt.
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@BadMrFrosty Well, after the initial 30 seconds of grace, they'll start to enter partial sleep again. As Peanits stated, if you hit them they are drawn into full sleep. So, it's 90 seconds if you don't hit them. Otherwise, if you find them after that 30 seconds grace, whack them and they're asleep, thus canceling whatever remains of the other 60 seconds.
At least until the hit-to-full sleep is nerfed to hell or never makes it live. Like when Peanits stated that missing an attack with Legion doesn't completely deplete your power bar. Yeah, we see where that ended up. Certainly not in the live build. 😡
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@SenzuDuck Based on the Dev stream and what they revealed, I'm not personally sold on him yet. However, I'm waiting until some hands on time before I form a real opinion.
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@SenzuDuck I also feel like too much emphasis is being placed on Teleport by people. Freddy's core power is going to orbit around his snares (or pallets with the add-on) and the fact that according on Peanits in another thread, hitting a Survivor who is in partial sleep draws them into full sleep. If that remains as he stated, it negates the extra 30 seconds timer on falling asleep after waking up via a Dream Clock. Which can be huge.
He's going to be a chase killer with the ability to drop Snares without even slowing down helping "a little" at loops if done right. The teleport isn't a core part like the chainsaw with Billy or Blinking with Nurse. His overall map pressure is still going to remain low, which apparently how the Devs want him.
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@Peanits Thanks for the response, man. And for noting the general disconnect rate in relation to other killers.
Now, you should probably get some sleep, or go relax and play a game. 😁
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The base cooldown is 45 seconds. It is automatically reduced for every Survivor in full-sleep. There is an add-on that can also reduce it even further.
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@DemonDaddy It is for the first several weeks. It's the exact, same thing we tell people at the Overwatch forums who try to use Pick Rate and Win Rate percentages right after a new hero has been released, major buffs or nerfs take place, or a rework takes place: You have to wait several weeks for the dust to settle and people to get used to the new hero or hero changes.
I'd be much more interested in seeing the data for late July to late August. But only if, as I questioned Peanits above, a kill is counted purely via a third-hook death or a Mori. If their data also includes DCs or hook suicides, then the data is not useful.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/563309#Comment_563309
Many other games use high-level gameplay as a benchmark for balance.
@TAG Many other games, whether it is fighting games, hero-shooters, shooters, et cetera are also symmetrical games and the higher end can more reliably be used for balance. An asymmetrical game is a different beast entirely, and when a voice comm SWF make-up at high ranks can skew the skill level versus straight solo players, it adds another problem to the balance equation.
BHVR shot themselves in the foot on being able to actually balance DBD three years ago. Hell, even their relaunched Deathgarden is suffering the exact, same problems already, and finding it damn near impossible to retain players over there.
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@Peanits said:
In the past week alone, Ghost Face has maintained a very high kill rate at rank 1 (above 70%). The changes made during the first hotfix were, as mentioned, very minor and did not have a notable impact on his kill rate. We're still keeping an eye on him, but between looking at the stats and watching experienced players, he's anything but weak right now.
@Peanits But how does your internal data categorize a kill? Is it the actual third-hook death or a Mori? Or does it also count irate Survivors suiciding on the hook early, or DCing, as kills? Because if it isn't just a third-hook death or a Mori, then the data is skewed.
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@ItsYourBoyGuzma The issue is that Dead by Daylight suffers from the same thing Overwatch does: lack of competition (and Paladins isn't even close to competition against Overwatch).
Friday the 13th failed. Last Year:The Nightmare committed suicide via the Discord store exclusive. DBD has no other game to worry about, so they can afford to remain on the track they're currently on. They won't die, because the people who love this style of game have nowhere else to really go.
Now, if the genre would get something meaty and new released into it, something that isn't the clustered mess that F13 and Last Year were, then they might be in danger. But until that time, their numbers generally hold steady and they've no reason to try harder. Obviously, what they're doing now is working for them from a business perspective.
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@Peanits If that's the case about the cancellation cooldown, your Stream devs did a piss-poor job of conveying information.
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@AStupidMonkeyy The snares, too. From what the video showed and talked about, he's not even a poor-man's Hag. I can't imagine them doing squat against knowledgeable Survivors. You'd need the Survivor to loop stupidly.
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@AStupidMonkeyy From what I saw today, I have several problems. On paper it looks like a lateral rework: nothing truly changes and he'll still be bottom tier.
Granted, like you, I'm going to wait until some hands on experience to draw a solid conclusion; but as of right now, I'm not that enthused.
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As @BadMrFrosty stated, they very likely do care, but they balance in ways they prefer, which seems to be around the low half of the ranks (20-10) and have stated they look more at what's fun.
The main issue, I feel, is that Dead by Daylight is an obvious casual game with only a ranked mode. It therefore suffers an identity crisis between the developers and some of the player base. If they want to balance around less skilled players and for fun, then drop the ranked system and just use a hidden MMR system.
Right now, with only a Ranked mode, they made the game appear competitive but balance otherwise. Just drop the appearance of competitive.
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@AStupidMonkeyy Well, it's a base 45 second cooldown, reduced for every survivor currently in full sleep, and can be reduced further with specific add-ons. Meaning that as he sacrifices survivors, he'll get less of a full sleep cooldown reduction. So, effectively his power becomes less useful the more successful he is.
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@NuclearBurrito Thanks for the notes. I'm skimming the YouTube video right now (skipping through the useless Dev chatter with each other) and so far . . . he seems reworked but just as weak.
I'll try the PTB next week to see how it feels hands on, but on "paper," at least, I think he'll still be low-tier.
But like I said, I need some hands on to really make an opinion.
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It's 4th of July here in the U.S., so I missed the stream. Anyone have cliff notes on Freddy?
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@gambit92 See, that's the thing. It's obvious Ghostface has counter-play. Yes, it might take some practice and skill-development, but it is there. I don't own him, and haven't been able to have time to play since before the Double BP event (I plan to start again tonight or this weekend), but just from a myriad of posts, it shows that counter-play exists.
Unfortunately, such complaints are too common in games nowadays. Hell, I'm primarily an Overwatch player and have been since its beta. And people still complaint about Brigitte and Doomfist, or about the new hero, Baptiste, and his Immortality Field.
Yet, all of them have counter-play. Except in Overwatch, certain heroes are better counters to other heroes. You need to switch. People won't. They just ######### for nerfs.
I hate to say it, but people just need to learn to play more. And this is coming from a 46-year-old man past his gaming prime who was never, at any point in his life, even close to being a top player.
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@jackkn12 I'd also wait to see how well the dedicated servers function. It isn't just about the servers themselves, but also about how well BHVR can do the netcode for the DBD servers.
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@Entità Yeah, but that is why the rank system is extremely poorly designed, which a separate issue entirely.
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Not until September. They're releasing at the very end of summer, which technically ends around September 21st or so.
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It won't change anything. The issue is that a majority of the player base doesn't participate in the testing. Consoles can't, and as a PC player I don't as far as DBD is concerned. Why? Because the asinine method Steam uses to allow me onto the PTB is cumbersome and I don't care to use it. Now, if they had a PTB set-up like most other games do, where I can easily leap between playing on the PTB or Live Servers, it would be different. But they don't.
So, with a majority not testing, and consoles unable to test, not even a three-step system like that would prevent the cries when the killer hit live, and BHVR knee-jerk reacting post-launch as they do now.
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Plays a PvP game, complains about toxic players. So, what exactly do you expect to experience in the genre? It isn't like this type of thing in a PvP game is new, or is going to change any time soon. It's akin to getting on the internet, and then complaining that some people on it are #########.
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@Leatherbilly said:
I know they hate to hear this suggestion but they need to just delete it and accept it was a bad idea to even attempt.
@Leatherbilly The problem is, they need something in place, or else DBD matches become the absolute free-for-all that a majority of Battle Royale games suffer: new players tossed in against long-term Vets. Which works in those games well enough because you're talking 50-100 players in a match. In a 4v1 like DBD, not so much.
Then again, thanks to how one can abuse the rank system by SWF rank disparity and de-ranking, it isn't doing its job any better than a Battle Royale as it is.
I would have suggest they drop rank and use a hidden MMR system for DBD, much like other PvP games use for their non-ranked modes. But that requires BHVR to be able to design and code such a system, and after seeing their attempts at the "rank system," I'm not confident they can. I don't know the people on the Dev team, but from the outside it feels like they need to hire some people with experience in rank and MMR systems.
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As a player that hasn't sunk hundreds of hours into DBD yet, the issue with the release schedule is the Perk grind. It is completely asinine at this stage. It's the absolute primary reason my wife, other family, and friends, won't touch DBD after trying the free weekends. There are far too many Perks to grind, never mind the grind being RNG on top of it, for them to bother with the game. Especially when the rank brackets mean next to nothing, so you'll be going up against Vet players with full builds before you even get a decent 2-Perk build, never mind a full build.
As far as the number of characters, it's what generates their revenue. But just like in Overwatch, there is a decent roster but I only play 3 or 4 of the characters. The others just don't appeal to my play style.
(Disclaimer: I play more than 3-4 in Overwatch, I play about that many from each category, but it also has more characters as well.)
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@Heroiq Having mostly played Killer, I focused more on Myers than anyone. So, pretty much an M1 killer. 😄
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@DocOctober and @Larcz I'll be honest, since I came back for however long this time, I've been hesitant to buy Ghostface, despite it being the only character DLC I don't yet own. Plague felt like a waste of money. I bought Legion a whopping three weeks before they announced they were gutting him (and original Legion was fun). And though I wasn't here back then, like everyone else I am well aware of the Freddy fiasco.
Hell, despite the fact that it needed it, MoM, a pay-to-play, perk was nerfed. What bothers me is that it was nerfed several months later, at about the time the shelf life for a DLC would be diminishing because the initial player base run of spending money on it was already done.
I have an issue trusting BHVR on DLCs at this point. It's the same issue I ran into with Heroes of the Storm and Blizzard: A new hero would release, would generally be OP, and after the sales run would have died down, they nerfed them to hell.
At this point, Ghostface might only be worth it because with my limited play time and rank resets, I will never get past the very beginning of green ranks, so what's high-tier doesn't apply to me. Hell, for not playing for a few months, I'm already "rank reset" back into the gray ranks as it is. So, the fact that I am generally always low ranked might be the only thing to make Ghostface worth buying.
Now, if the creature from Stranger Things is a planned DLC, that might be the first one that I hard-skip. Nice show, but I have zero interest in playing it as a DBD killer. None whatsoever.
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@blue4zion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/561714#Comment_561714
To survivor mains maybe
@blue4zion Usually ends-up that way. 🤣
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@Okapi It's a cool game, warts and all.
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@Warlock_2020 said:
I chase survivors in loops and get hit with pallets. Then I smack em real hard and throw them on a hook. Then other rude survivors come alone and pull my prize off the hook and I have to start all over again.
But, sometimes, I play survivor, and I forget what I'm doing and I chase other survivors in loops. It does not work out so well.
@Warlock_2020 OMFG, that was hilarious.
@Elk I tried a wheel once. It kept coming up: Pleb. Yep, that's been my play style. 😀
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@NMCKE Because it's Microsoft?
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@xP3nnyWize What's really queer is that not only are Killer queues near instant here according to you guys (I haven't logged on for the night yet) after the patch, but after Tuesday's patch in Overwatch competitive players over there were reporting suddenly near-instant queues.
Both games?
Was there some sort of planetary alignment this week or something?
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@Talmeer Yeah, I was less than thrilled about the Legion rework myself.
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@Condorloco_26 and @ygnea Thanks for the tips.
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@Ember_Hunter Hey, it was a good read!
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@Carpemortum About the same mentality I try to have when playing.
@TheShape78 Good to see a like mind! 😁