DodoSwarm
DodoSwarm
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@chipsbone said:
I don't understand why the developers would announce that something is a gameplay experience issue that they intend to address, and then ignore it. Do they think it stopped being an issue? Is the huge difference in killer and survivor queue times not an indication that something needs to be materially done to address the survivor experience, of which they've repeatedly said tunneling is one of the foremost reasons people uninstall?
A chat wheel isn't going to protect me or my teammates from these things. Why should survivors be expected to have the coordination of a competitive level discord channel just to be able to actually play the game? It's just going to be another excuse to blame survivors for not playing perfectly instead of giving them the opportunity to even play at all.
IDK how it isnt a gameplay experience problem for killers too… I play 80/20 mostly survivor and man… when I play killer I do NOT want to tunnel, its so insanely boring… I want to play the game not follow one guy around.. it kills the interaction for me totally and the match is boring from a killer standpoint too… seems insanely unhealthy in general. on one hand you have survivors who are forced to not play the game and its called a "Skill Issue" and people say its their own fault they arent good enough, and on the other hand you have the killers who are not interacting with 3 of 4 survivors for most of the game except moving around them to get the other survivor.
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@esarraf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4112055#Comment_4112055
Yeah rat behavior stems from the simple fact that there's no catch up mechanics for survivors so once a game starts to go badly it's next to impossible to recover so if you only care about surviving the only logical play is to go for hatch and do nothing but rat. This can be easily solved by removing hatch and balancing it that for each dead survivor generators require dramatically less progress to finish to make it so there's still hope if someone gets tunneled out early or if the killer is just stomping while also encouraging spreading hooks and eliminating the reason for ratting which is the hatch.
And yeah like you said if people are going to rat they are going to rat anyway. Changing perks like distortion or anything really cannot change the fact that you can't force people to not rat. Honestly that's one of the main reasons I hated the distortion change since it meant that rat players are even less useful since they are just hiding in lockers more often rather than being on generators or being useful.
I mean part of what you said is true about it being very hard for survivors to turn a game around but Rat behavior is most definitely a playstyle, I see it in solo queue semi often, definitely not every other game but there are games where you're in like the first chase and theres a Nea behind a rock in the corner for 2 minutes… I went against Judgement yesterday and had a steve perpetually in a locker, the killer response to the crows is oftentimes knowing that that person isn't participating very much (obviously) so they just leave them until last.
Overall I think the biggest issues in this game right now come from balancing the game around perks and not around gameplay… that's why tunneling is still highly viable, because the perks and buff/debuff changes don't change the fact that the killers objective is to put people on hooks and they can kill two birds with one stone when they proxy camp and tunnel because it forces survivors away from their objective to make coordinated saves and that is entirely a benefit to the killer from the beginning, even if it goes badly and the hooked person gets away, the killer got a win because they forced people off of gens. its also why SWF bully squads are so annoying, when the game is so linear then its easy to abuse. there's not many real moving parts in DBD its mostly RNG but once the RNG is over with its 4 survivors with perks that may or may not match up well against one killer who's perks may or may not match up well in a map that people know from the outset is neutral/killer sided/surv sided… the playing part of the game is just hooks, gens, and lit totems and a consolation hatch. it's been that way for a decade… -
I just think people are still playing her wrong. the more obviously decent judgement players I have gone against who are still slinging beams at a 3gen aren't getting kills but people who seem to realize that and are using her Movement Speed Addon while charging power and then closing distance and changing its direction to hit someone other than she's chasing last second have been pretty easily killing people… I will say she is this unique case of all or nothing where se is either snowballing or floundering and sometimes the "snowballing" can happen too late to matter
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@OrionQc24 said:
I really hope some buffs are in workshop bc it is a ridiculously weak killer. I like the design but the light is so small as a survivor I have no trouble evading it, it's much easier than Henry and as a killer you have to gimmick it to even get a hit. And all that to have one statue bring everyone back meaning your pressure is entirely gone.
I think you might be going against people who are still learning it, I have had games where i felt like I could always Dodge it, and then games where I was getting blasted 24/7 its a killer with a very steep learning curve and people are still learning counterplay so we'll see where it shakes out ig
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I feel like something designed to be difficult to be good at but rewarding when you are is exactly the kind of thing that the dedicated community would come up with
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sure wish vigil wasn't getting gutted so it would be useful to deal with this… I would rather Vigil get split into two perks than lose the value of helping to get rid of debuffs.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
I really hope the communication wheel will alleviate some of this frustration
I'm not very hopeful… It just doesnt provide the same level of communication required of survivors… It can't. a 4man SWF has so many advantages just by Voice comms that will never be possible to give Solo Queue
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I actually agree… I do hate her hex, as I made clear on here earlier but apparently thats just a me problem, many such cases. I was worried a killer built around sniping was not a good idea but so far its been fine, the 3 gens aren't that bad either…
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It is not balanceable with perks, no. if they went the route of balancing by killer rather than by perk meta maybe(?) but its going to always be impossible, that doesn't mean they cant make some things less insane though.
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IDK yet, my games have been all over the place
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111837#Comment_4111837
That's definitely wrong, there's a huge swath of completely viable perks that are overlooked for a variety of different reasons.
You don't actually need Exhaustion perks, strictly speaking, they're just very useful and aren't really challenged by very much. You could, right now, opt to use all kinds of different perks and builds for the same purpose, similar purposes, or completely different playstyles altogether, there just isn't much pushing any given player to do that.
Also, again, this is really important, Under Your Thumb isn't making Exhaustion perks non-viable, that really matters here.
aren't really challenged by very much
okay man we'll just ignore the fact that even without a slowdown that high mobility killers barely lose distance on you I guess. They are the "challenge" to something that needs to be countered. now they are providing a counter to a counter against already strong killers.
Also, again, this is really important, Under Your Thumb isn't making Exhaustion perks non-viable, that really matters here.
If you mean in the sense that Under Your Thumb won't be in every game then yeah, you're right. but that's not a good counterargument. this is, again, why I brought up vigil. "nerfed because too consistent of a counter against too many status effects" survivor doesn't have very many negative effects that they cause for the killer, but they do have a very consistent couple of status effects, Haste is the top among them. UYT will do the exact same thing to survivor gameplay that Vigil does to negative status effects except it is stronger because it isn't reducing the timers it's reducing the actual effect. "It can be broken" okay and old Circle of Healing could be exploited and Snuffed. it is punishing survivors for using their kits well. high tier killers have the benefit of the pallet density update being relatively meaningless already, as well as the all too common gens around relative deadzones, Exhaustion Haste perks are the counterplay to this.
And, the sidepoint still is that this game continues to add things that do not feel like being beaten by skill on the survivor end but rather being forced to lose by playing the right way, we are supposed to evade the killer, we bring perks to better do that, we have a gameplan to escape or prolong a chase in an optimal point of the map where something like Balanced Landing shines, we make it all the way there by playing well and then get killed not because the killer is better or outplays us with power but because we're forced to have almost no perk value from an external source. Perks and Powers should not have this effect, though that is a different conversation. -
@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111819#Comment_4111819
High mobility killers like Ghoul or Blight won't care about a Sprint Burst, they catch up in 2 nanoseconds. The new hex perk is not even remotely as strong as something like Blood Favor
Lithe initiates by jumping over a physical barrier, and then creating space between you and the killer, That is still useful against Kaneki and The Blight. very much so, as is Balanced Landing. and as stated by you in this thread, Killers KNOW what they are running before a match and what it counters, Survivors Hope. I have already experienced killers yesterday that knew this. this perk makes using haste perks to get between a proxy camper and a hook unviable as well, they get a notification when you use haste perks. this will turn many "might have to be a trade" situations into a definite hook trade or worse.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111828#Comment_4111828
That's exactly what this is doing, though.
Exhaustion perks aren't being removed or weakened, they are exactly as strong in their own right as they were, minus SB's nerf this patch of course.
However, if this perk gets popular, when equipping an Exhaustion perk you may pause and consider how you want to account for that.No matter what decision is made (outside of just ignoring UYT existing, I guess) it will add more variety. Non-Exhaustion chase perks look better in comparison, and totem-related perks also look better in comparison.
The survivor meta is currently fairly narrow (though not nearly as bad as it used to be) primarily because a lot of the best stuff doesn't really get challenged very easily, not because most other tools are flat out non-viable. Additions like this could, in theory, do more for diversifying the meta than a handful of small buffs could.
you're arguing Variety by removal of Viability. Exhaustion perks are specifically used right now because of how overbearing the killer meta is, and there is very little that isn't niche that is consistently viable for especially solo queue.
Variety needs to be brought about by Increasing the variety of Viability, not by making things unviable to the point where the choice doesn't matter. -
@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111764#Comment_4111764
And they block aura reading. To quickly shroud your aura from BBQ they're great.
they also make a gigantic "i am over here" bubble around you… just get in a locker
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111821#Comment_4111821
Exhaustion perks being mainstay perks is why I say it could be healthy for the overall meta.
A perk like this being strong puts pressure on survivors to potentially change their builds without actually needing to nerf any of the popular perks or classes of perks. If you run a lot of Exhaustion perks, this perk being strong and popular could push you towards considering other kinds of chase perks, or maybe shifting to a different playstyle entirely.
Or, if you really like your Exhaustion perks and just want to keep using them, then the pressure might push you to sub out one of your other perks and replace it with something like Detective's Hunch to find totems, or Counterforce to cleanse them faster, or Overzealous to benefit more from the cleanse, etcetera.
Introducing strong perks like this is a healthier and more organic way of slowly changing the meta than just doing a full meta shakeup patch and nerfing everything. Because this perk can be dealt with from so many angles, it's probably pretty good for the game that it's strong.
The way to change an already relatively narrow survivor meta is not to make the meta unviable its to make the other survivor perks more usable and more consistent. The Judgement herself outright destroys a ton of perk value and even game interaction like flashlight saves, it can't be both ways so on one end, people are going to be taking those things out of their builds, and on the other hand… ironically among the best perks to counter judgement, movement perks… are being flatlined by a totem which judgement can repeatedly interrupt and other killers who are more oppressive in chase can use to 100% ensure downs. awesome.
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@StickyRice said:
Perhaps it would be helpful to introduce a beginner mode. This could include easy‑to‑play killers equipped with the four most beginner‑friendly or commonly used meta perks — and the same for survivors. These perks shouldn’t require unlocking. Additionally, each character could have a short bio explaining their four perks. For both survivors and killers, the game could also provide a brief explanation of their core mechanics. Something simple that helps new players avoid feeling overwhelmed and gives them a clear understanding: “Ah, that’s how I’m supposed to play this.”
wouldn't work, its just free wins for people who are very good already going into a mode with a greatly diminished amount of things to worry about, and It wouldn't remain populated enough for purely beginners if it was locked after X amount of hours or after X amount of plays
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111811#Comment_4111811
The sticking point for me here is that I don't see how Under Your Thumb contributes to any of these things specifically because it's a hex, and it's not a weird or funky hex that relights or targets specific survivors or anything.
It's just a hex, and it'll be the same as other strong hexes; it might mess you up in one or two chases, but once you know it's in play, it can be removed. Same as something like Blood Favour or Devour Hope, it might be obnoxious in full totem defence builds, but that's not any different to the current staples and those builds are getting a key component dismantled (at least hopefully) next patch.This is kind of the ideal perk to be strong, as far as I'm concerned. It's strong, but only because it counters the current meta, and it's also strong in ways that can be worked around or negated entirely depending on your loadout choices and gameplay.
If multiple survivors across the board choose off-meta tools to respond to seeing Under Your Thumb often, especially the ones that are useful when the killer doesn't have this perk, that's a good thing. That broadens the meta and brings in more variety.
its different because one effects survivors movement and perk choices directly, not as the result of a killers power but as a result of a perk. and when paired with the others makes it unreasonable. this post wouldnt be made if it was decreasing haste by 15%, that's still strong. 35% basically eliminates the effect of again, the most mainstay and common survivor perks especially in the current gamestate. its not like its a niche counter to a perk you don't see often… when I do play killer I see Lithe specifically all the time, if I am playing Leatherface, as I do and I have bamboozle and Under Your Thumb you are dying at shack and going into the basement and your game is over because you aren't making distance with lithe and if you don't have lithe and you are just looping the shack I will just bamboozle it and get you anyway… and if we're being realistic Leatherface SUCKS compared to high tiered killer, I just play him to meme around on. no distance against Kaneki and Myers is outright terrible, sure blood favor is strong and it blocks pallets, it doesn't physically change my survivors ability to move around. filler pallets are useless against mobility killers anyway, so you use an exhaustion perk. but, if they have both then you're just outright dead, no distance no pallet, nothing…time to get camped and tunneled…
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@MiseryandCompany said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111795#Comment_4111795
the perks is weak enough that people dont run it, wdym. Why would anyone waste a perk slot on a destroyable hex that reduces 4 perks in the game, when instead they can just run a perk that causes exhaustion?
Causing Exhaustion makes no sense when you can just prevent distance entirely. though, I will admit, vigil being gutted makes running perks to cause exhaustion way more viable, though that isn't a good thing it just makes exhaustion perks not viable… they're like a major part of a lot of peoples gameplay especially into killers like myers who you want as much distance as possible from to outlast his power. this will, again, disproportionately be excellent on high mobility high impact killers and just not that good on M1 killers… Ghostface will not benefit from this very much but Myers and Wesker, and The Ghoul, etc will.
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totem doesn't spawn at the start of a trial.
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@JordaJ6 said:
Gotta say, most unexpected crashout I’ve ever seen. Bros feeling so griefed by a perk that can be turned off. I’m a 50/50 player before he goes on his “killer main bias” tangent.
Hexes should be strong because they can be turned off and one person running counterforce is enough to invalidate an entire build.
Breathe bro, it’s going to be okay.
perk doesn't appear until after someone is hooked. using counterforce to break dull totems preemptively is griefing your own team, Devour Hope can be turned off, it doesn't make it any less of an S tier perk against most people, why run devour hope on myers when you already have a dash + Pallet break + Exposed + survivors cannot make distance anymore? The same logic was just used on vigil, its too strong when synergizing with other things, its too generalized, but its going to be overlooked for a perk that has the same generalized capabilities?
everyone's response has been to treat this perk like its the standalone objective. "its not that big of a deal just break it" that's, from the outset a bias, I didn't say that just for the sake of calling someone a killer main. Solo queue revolves around dealing with tunnels, more tools to that end feel bad to deal with, you get ONE use of a distance making perk most of the time if you are tunneled off of hook and its meaningless if they have Under Your Thumb, that's all it takes, you drop one pallet, get no distance, back on second hook and your team is forced off of gens to come help you, game's getting snowballed, totem is not a priority at that point. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111797#Comment_4111797
I don't really see the connection between Vigil and this perk. Five other perks were nerfed this patch too, that's just something that happens alongside new perks, even strong ones.
As for it being too strong, it is a hex, isn't it meant to be strong? It should be an effect that makes you want to go out and cleanse the totem to stop being affected by it, that's kinda the whole point.
I'm sympathetic to TOTH making it a problem, but that perk's getting reworked next patch, so like I said: worst case scenario, swap off Exhaustion until then.
Vigil is relevant because it shows a pretty obvious disregard for survivor in my opinion, Vigil is being nerfed extremely hard and even so much that it effects exhaustion less than it did before. at the same time there's another hex totem that totally destroys mainstay distance perks like SB, Lithe, and Balanced.
Effectively this perk, plus BHVRs Vigil Nerf is gutting every exhaustion perk in every match where its active. it's not a matter of "It won't be in every match" yeah no kidding, but you think the already bad game experience against killers you have to hold W against like artist and knight, or already extremely easy to play movement killers like the Ghoul is going to feel anything less than TERRIBLE when this perk is around? the counterplay to the knight is to make distance with something like lithe and outlast the guard as picking the banner is not often viable, now no distance. the counterplay against artist is to hold W, against myers its often hold W to a stronger area… that's what exhaustion haste perks are for specifically… "oh shoot, holding W is the best viable counterplay for me? Sick i'll just negate all haste perks that are used to make distance. already strong killers are going to disproportionately benefit from this much more than M1 killers are, that's a recurring problem of its own…
already a ton of saves against camping and tunneling killers are bad in solo queue, usually it ends up with a hook trade one way or another. its extremely common for killers to camp and tunnel at 5 as well, and if you're relying on an exhaustion perk to get past a proxy camping killer while they are distracted they get a notification you tried and you also get no distance and it goes from maybe a hook trade to definitely a hook trade, that's stronger value than Blood Favor, which is an insanely strong hex. and, mind you… Saving a camped, tunneled person from a high mobility killer, or even a damn bubba requires a whole team. nobody is cleansing that totem because they are trying to get their teammate off of a hook.
There are different Tiers of Hex totems, some that are powerful but more in a manageable and not as upfront threatening way (Ruin), some that suck apart from other perks or specific builds (Shoutout Huntress Lullaby), and some that are extremely dangerous and have to be dealt with right way and encourage a "Drop what you're doing and get rid of the totem attitude" (Devour Hope, Blood Favor) as we all know hex totems are RNG, that means that RNG can be very good as well.
Particularly problematic is the fact that this perk is not able to be cleansed until after someone is hooked. this is just digging the survivor experience further into a hole, it falls into a bit of its own category too as a hex that outright punishes you for using a perk you brought. like I said, balanced landing actually gets you no distance at all. -
@jesterkind said:
I'll admit to not having played on this patch just yet (hopping on later tonight), but surely this being a hex means you can play around it?
You could bring anti-hex perks like Counterforce, use more active totem perks like Overzealous, or swap from Haste to some other kind of build. Worst case scenario is you swap off Exhaustion perks until next patch when TOTH is reworked, and while that's annoying I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Personally I suspect it'll probably be popular so I'll likely sub in a map with the totem-finding addon for some of my builds, that should probably do it. Failing that, something without Exhaustion or a full totem build should do nicely against this.
The Look is part of the problem. Already Vigil being nerfed has been extremely controversial, and even people who think it needed a bit of a nerf tend to disagree with the fact it is getting totally gutted, at the same time there is an uproar over a projected nerf to The Judgement pre-release (And after playing against the Judgement I do understand why people were upset, I don't think the nerf was necessary, especially not if they had added the visual effect as a warning) and the Devs clearly listen to the player outrage about the Judgements Nerfs but totally ignore the outrage regarding vigil and a continued worsened state of playing Survivor.
Mind you The Judgement totally renders dozens of perks unusable because she doesn't hook people very often, so you have an update that essentially blows up a good generalized survivor perk (Granted it was pushed back until an upcoming patch), releases a killer that with time will be insanely rough to deal with, and adds a perk that stomps vigil even farther into the ground as well as nerfing off-hook endurance pretty significantly.
And What about killers that are both very oppressive and can defend totems? it just seems shortsighted. It would be different if we were talking about a 15% nerf to haste but its an insane 35% speed nerf from Haste Exhaustion Perks. as i mentioned pair that with hindered from Wesker, or just the general movement ability of The Ghoul or Blight. Balanced Landing makes no distance at all anymore under that. The perk is way too strong, if it was a 15% nerf it was very strong just like Blood Favor is very strong. it will further encourage people to get off of gens and look for the totem immediately too which is a pretty bad recurrent stall in solo queue. -
More people need to be aware of how oppressive The Judgements "Hex: Under Your Thumb" Perk is too, nerfing vigil and then adding a hex that causes haste to be limited to 115% is an insane move.
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@NeverSolus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111787#Comment_4111787
Devour hope is an instant one shot that gives haste. You know the counter? You break the totem. If it glows, it goes.
And this is the totem you take exception with? I'm so confused.Devour is a power creep perk, it does not immediately give the killer an incredible advantage and gives survivors plenty of time to find it. and, might i add, you can run them both. all of the sudden you're permanently exposed AND exhaustion perks don't work. and you have to cleanse TOTH + Devour + Under Your Thumb.
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@NeverSolus said:
… Ah we for real right now? Just break the totem. It's not even that good of a perk.
Oh yeah man Vigil is unfairly OP because it helps you recover from statuses faster so we have to gut it to only having a 30% effect on Exhaustion recovery and also remove everything else from it but lets throw in a hex totem that starts the game unlit which deletes Distance Making perks. "Just break the totem" when in Solo Queue totems go the whole match without even being found.
We are for real in a state of
"If you don't like being tunneled bring anti tunnel"
"If you don't like hexes bring an anti hex build"
"Just run Kindred its solo queue"
yeah sure bro I'll get right on filling up all 24 of my own personal perk slots up with these counters.
They just added a tunnel affirming Hex totem which works insanely well with restrictive perks and negative status effects and its a "just break the totem" problem for you?
If Vigil is a problem just catch the survivor. if old DH was a problem just catch the survivor, if Circle of Healing was a problem just stomp the totem. -
@terumisan said:
it's a hex break it. if it's that prevalant use counterforce
classic killer main "skill issue" response.
We are getting a hex to absolutely murder Exhaustion Perks at the same time vigil is going to be reworked to only affect exhaustion perks, and Tunneling has just been buffed and Hex totems are totally unstable.
TOTH makes this perk unfathomably overkill. a 15% nerf to haste is strong, this takes SB, Lithe, Breakout, Balanced from 150% to 115% Movement Speed WITH AN AURA READ. suddenly viable distance needed to survive a chase is entirely gone and the hex totem starts the match without being ignited so nobody knows it's in play. acting like this isn't ridiculously strong when paired with certain killers and perks is unbelievable. -
@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111762#Comment_4111762
I'd like to see that too, I'd love to see how any of the MMR functions, but I guess doing that would make it feel like a ranked mode and BHVR can't make up their mind if this is a casual or competitive game
yeah the Asymm game genre needs consistent competition, I fear DBD is getting to be where as much as I love the Asymm horror elements, the unreasonable amount of painful gameplay choices are going to drive me out. I dont want to play another comp game, if DBD becomes much more competitively charged, especially without literally any proper backbone for a comp game I'm out
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111598#Comment_4111598
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111637#Comment_4111637
The new system already collected data. So it is highly unlikely that they are really baby Survivors.
@Topic:
Based on that clip I would rather blame it as inexperience against The Judgment. Because they apparently did not realize that trying to pick the Survivors on the ground up will not really work out. (Or they have given up at this point)
But personally, I can see the Killer being very oppressive when Killer players learned her. And to be honest, yesterday I ended playing DBD rather quickly, because going against Judgment has to be one of my least enjoyable experiences ever in this game. I dont think I ever had less fun playing DBD and this includes things like OG Legion. I am dreading the day Killer players become really good with her, but I also hope that many just give up. That a bunch of Survivor Perks dont work against her (especially those of the few good ones) does not make it better.
And it was not really on results, I escaped most of the games, but the experience was just miserable.
The new system already collected date. So it is highly unlikely that they are really baby survivors
I have seen this being said but my experience over about 20 games entirely on survivor yesterday was that I went against a significant portion of killers who were absolutely new to the game (probably 8 or 9, none of which were using DLC characters) and then a few that curb stomped the lobby badly with P100, MMR is absolutely shaken up, there are other posts about it too… I am definitely NOT in the highest MMR bracket but the survivors and killers I was with on occasion were definitely in the lowest.
Also, so far the judgement has been okay but her perk Hex: Under Your Thumb is ABYSMAL, how are they gutting vigil because of too much value across the board and then adding this to the game… 15%…? Balanced Landing doesn't even work with this Hex active you still get briefly slowed from falling and then only get 115% movement speed… you gain almost no distance which is TERRIBLE against movement killers, its like unplayable how bad that is, combine that with hindered from wesker, or trying to evade a myers dash, or anything that would see maximum value from an exhaustion perk. TOTH still exists right now, even though it is getting reworked. this perk is actually Horrible, worst single perk experience in recent memory. -
@Oputeev_Stas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111691#Comment_4111691
same boring power as Vecna, I didn't come to a casino or a shooter like pubg to endlessly strafe, endurance nerf is a mistake lol you act like every person bodyblocks killer and even if they bodyblock most of just play fast killers so not an issue to chase them after, they can punish bodyblocks by removing haste from that survivor but that's it plus how game detect that it was a bodyblock sometimes killers can hit them by mistake again
you think so? I was extremely worried about Judgement because her kit designed screamed of horrible to me, i was surprised not many people were talking about how obscene it is to design a killer to be at their strongest when sniping people they aren't even directly interacting with but… so far I have seen them about 10 times and it hasn't been nearly as bad as I thought… I HATE Vecna (The First) though, unbelievably unfun experience but Judgement has been cool… maybe thats just because people haven't figured out how to play them decently across the board but at the very least theres some cool survivor end stuff going on with The Judgement where Vecna is just get hit through the wall while an insanely loud clock ticks.. Vecna has no reason to have the map traversal either, he's already a stronger huntress…
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I still think that tunneling is happening, and has been happening widely because it is a Net positive for a killer in a way survivors cannot counter for the outcome to be positive for them.
What I mean is that the entire survivor win objective is Gens, if they don't do the gens then they don't get out. but Tunneling, regardless of what killer is doing it and how well they can hold it down forces survivors off of gens and into the hook of the tunneled person which is a lose lose scenario for survivors, because if survivors were playing right from the outset and especially with solo queue in mind, the people on gens are far from whoever was running the killer which is why Pain Res, Corrupt Intervention, and DMS are still so popular because the killer can force the survivors into a side of the map (unless they wait out corrupt and waste a bunch of time), hook a survivor, get gen pressure on the most progressed gen without physically going there and kicking it, and then forcing the survivors off of it with DMS. that encourages survivors to leave the gen and come to the hook, depending on the killer that's just game over in most solo queue lobbies. but if the survivors don't come to hook, they are trolling their teammate and if they do come to hook they are running into the killer who will most likely get another down from it and start the cycle of resets and diving the hook.
This is Damned if I do and Damned if I don't for survivor because "leave them on the hook until the end of hook state" is not viable, the killer will return and defend the hook at that point almost always. this is again, because tunneling shifts the play area to around a hook, something survivors cannot win from.
I think tunneling is mainly only possible because of how narrow the objective is, widen the objective and tunneling goes away as viable. How long someone does or doesn't have endurance/elusive isn't going to change that meta unless its an obviously ridiculous number like 60s of Endurance, Elusive isn't even helping at all on open maps. so expand the objectives for both sides. Killer doesn't just need hooks for a total win and survivors don't just need gens, then it becomes another playing field to be balanced around but it is much harder to tunnel vision a single objective when there are multiple objectives for you. -
@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111237#Comment_4111237
Thats why good players need to take agression. It's not a guarantee, but even if the two uses if distortion are not sufficient you can opt for fart clouds if the killer is far away.
which makes Distortion really not a great stealth perk anymore… hence why they shouldn't be using it. also, Smoke Bombs are horrible. the only routine use that i get from them is to obscure ranged killers vision briefly, almost never are decent killers thrown off by them.
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@Arcturus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111461#Comment_4111461
I think they asked similar questions in a recent player feedback form from after the anniversary, but we never get to see the results. Personally I'd love to see the results of an in-game poll like this
ah, I am always busy with work when the DBD Anniversary stuff comes around, but yeah I wish a lot more information about the surveys they do is public, and hopefully sometime after the new MMR settles they make full stat breakdowns per MMR level available, I want to see how well perks and killers are doing per MMR bracket
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I think the killer and survivor are fine, at least right now… I think the game is just in a stale state, MMR Rework might be cool we'll see in a week or so, I will be excited to see actual content beyond the status quo "here comes another guy" updates. I think the base game needs some shaking up
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this is how trapper and wraith players felt when Artist and others like her came out btw, there's nothing wrong with killers that are different tiers of impact and complexity.
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The only one that I thought was a positive was the hook states when in game, otherwise I think they all look bad
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@100PercentBPMain said:
every time I took no mither+ plot twist I'd go the whole day without seeing Corrupt.
Nic Cage is too funny for dbd and it's not even the first time as he got Steve nerfed :P
Nicks perks are exactly why he was my first P100, that kinda stuff is my favorite in this game, like Adam Francis Pebble or Deception too but Nicks perks are a tier up, I hope when they add Art The Clown he brings some ridiculously funny killer perks to the game, idk who else could
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I have experienced this as well already, It was annoying but not unbeatable, It was definitely one of my concerns for this killer ever since its power was chosen, but honestly compared to the skull merchant on release, the 3gen capabilities seem… not nearly that strong…
Idk its still day one so once more people are better at playing and countering it we'll see for sure… IMO The killer is much stronger when they aren't defending a 3gen currently because it takes a different level of not committing to continue to bomb gens with their power, the ones that stomped my lobbies were using aura reading to trick people, for example Nurses calling and chasing someone nearby and then blasting the healing survivors and since you can kind of see the beam most of the time it looked like it was headed for someone and then they changed its direction and it came for someone else. -
@Slurp_Ramen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111462#Comment_4111462
vigil was nerfed
To 40% the other nerfed is coming in a bug fix later
yeah I just meant it wasn't Nerfed in the sense of what was being talked about on here all week yet. The hindered is what effects clown and freddy not the Exhaust recover
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
That kinda sentiment or other similar statements is something I’ve been seeing quite a lot of seen vigils nerfs were announced and which I never understood; because why wouldn’t affect their play rates?
And I don’t know if I’m just superbly lucky but my literal first game on the new update was against a Freddy not even a judgement, which I found quite comical.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/P5BJ8ZU32P6Z/img-2699.png
It make just be a one off case of luck, but I just wanted to document it.
Vigil hasn't been nerfed yet so I don't think it matters who you saw after the judgement update. It will definitely see a few more people playing clown but ultimately clowns power still sucks, vigil being gutted won't change that. freddy is still pretty bad, Vigil being gutted won't change that. and you'll note Ghostface is also pretty bad but a lot of people play him in comparison because Scream is a beloved IP and ghostface has draw for that reason. Freddy is based off of the newer Nightmare on Elm Street remake and not the originals so he lacks the same level of a cult following and is canonically a child molester. his kit is mediocre at best, and The Clown is a non IP Obese Ugly guy that laughs way too much and has one of the worst powers in the game, ultimately those are going to influence how many people play them considerably more than a perk nerf.
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It would be interesting if DBD put this poll on the homescreen when you log in
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111187#Comment_4111187
I mean I agree about the horrid state of solo queue but I still don't think a forfeit system is the way to solve that. If you give players an easy way out without penaltys they will use it every time a match doesn't go their way. And if a match goes their way the other side will forfeit. Most of ur matches could literary be u spawn in, sit on a gen for 50 secs, killer insta forfeits and you go back to queue and repeat this cycle. Like yeah you won but basically didn't play. Same goes the other way, if you give survivors an easy way out they will use it whenever they can. Would be like in the old days without dc penalty where most of the matches had either the survs or the killer dc in the first minute cause it looks like they won't win.
We already have an abandon system that makes sure u can leave when there's truly no more chance of winning. That's honestly enough.
ultimately the best option would be to permanently destroy insanely consistent strategies that make the game feel hopeless, but since they don't seem like they will do that, a Forefeit is a compromise.
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111336#Comment_4111336
recovering from status effects 40% faster is not at all equivalent to dealing negative status effects out and then being able to make them last 40% longer.
Tell me how how is it not the exact same thing, killers do complain about vigil a lot but hypothetically if killers had a perk like this without vigil existing then survivors would complain about it too.
Killers already have a perk, (actually a lot of perks) limiting negative status effects towards themselves and causing a negative status effect to survivors in return, Hex: Two Can Play. they have a perk to void all kinds of blindness from any source, Lightborn, they have Enduring, Spirit Fury, Etc. the difference is that survivors are always the same. Killers are not, survivors are picking a perk which counters parts of various killers game, but isn't countering 8 things in one game like people are making it out to. if you want some reprieve from status effects as a survivor you shouldn't have to guess which negative status effect you might encounter.
Why A "Vigil" for killers would be so much more Oppressive: Killer Perks, and more importantly their kits are designed on purpose to be able to catch people, that's why they are tuned the way they are, hence the debuffs we are talking about regarding Vigil: Exposed, Hemorrhage, Blind, Exhausted, ETC Lengthening them is an entirely different deal than shortening them, because you have to consider the vast amount of survivors who do not have Vigil VS Status Effect Killers who absolutely would run it almost always. 40% longer exposed status from perks that cause exposed? free.
You also have to remember killers have an avenue for expression that Survivors do not have which is killer Addons, that is where anything affecting a killers power or effects caused by it should be. items causing negative effects on other people are fundamentally different than items that remove them, by extension objects that extend negative effects are fundamentally different than ones that shorten them. because Items that remove effects are counterplay, items that add to them are empowerment without a guaranteed counter. -
@Craftlori said:
Survivors in your terrorradius are 40% longer affected by negativ status effect like hinder, exhausted, exposed mangled and so on. The effect lingers for 15 seconds after they leave your terrorradius.
Doesn't that sound like a balanced and fair perk?
I love the trolling from the Killer POV because its so extremely easy to point out how recovering from status effects 40% faster is not at all equivalent to dealing negative status effects out and then being able to make them last 40% longer.
It's just acting like the killer and survivor are supposed to be on equal ground in an asymm game… since the plague exists and causes survivors to be devoid of altruism perks all game then survivors should get the ability to make the killer unable to take away both health states all game… that's how blatantly ridiculous it sounds. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111305#Comment_4111305
I mean, overall it is good that abandoning is possible. Because otherwise you lie on the ground for 4 minutes. But this does not solve the issue that slugging is too strong, especially on the strong Killers. And as I said before, the Killer in my screenshot decided to not even down me for a bit. So the other two Survivors and myself could not even abandon, because the Killer was prolonging the game. (Only Renato got to abandon because he got slugged that often)
When it comes to the 2v1, I still think that the Survivor on the ground should be able to abandon. Which would then trigger the remaining Survivor to be able to abandon. And at this point the Killer can still go for their 4K, they are just only wasting their own time. Because slugging for the 4K is really only prolonging a game the Killer already won. And for the standing Survivor it is also not really fun, because their best way to play the game in this situation is to be the Antimate.
right, Abandon only appears under a few circumstances though, I think there's a significant portion of people who do not want to experience being slugged to a 4k all game with the loop of someone running around, picking one person up just for them to go down again, rinse and repeat…but its not abandonable until everyone is down usually. Iikewise everyone should have the option to abandon if someone else has already DC'd (With Penalty) if I load into a game and a survivor instantly DCs I am still stuck there… why? if the killer DCs the game stops… I think it should be an option to leave if people quit before it is reasonable to, because that disproportionately affects the other survivors who didn't do anything wrong but are stuck in a losing game with a bot that prioritizes its own health over winning the game.
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It would be good for them to listen. The whole point of a perk is for it to have an effect. if Vigil was affecting 8 different things in one game that would be a different story, but it isn't and its more of a counter to killer perks than killers directly. they can just remove its interaction with hindered.
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@Piruluk said:
There arent enough players to have 2 permanent mode.
Its even admitted that playerbase so small that mmr often ignored just to give fast enough matchmaking.
Which is INSANE considering DBD Pulls a LOT of players, way more than a lot of PvP games do. steam numbers are consistently high and 2 months ago they eclipsed games like DOTA in active player count for a little while so to pretend like they can't split queues for ranked or make them longer for proper MMR is just not even true…
@Craftlori said:
2v8 is survivor sided. That is not a opinion, it is a fact. For the normal mode it's unclear because both sides have unfair things to abuse but since there are no addons, perks or offerings in 2v8 it's pretty obvious which side has the advantages.
Since 2v8 will return in September and leakers already discovered that not only every class will have a item next time but also get a new item that unlocks the second ability faster and give a speedboost it will become even more survivor sided and the sad thing is it will change absolutely nothing about the queue times.
You could give Survivors in that mode a minigun that allows them to kill the killers and the Killer queue time would still be 30-45+ Minutes because it is the only mode where you can play with a friend on the killer side.
Yeah 2v8 is already in the game a bit but since it's limited it will never get normal queue times.
2v8 is arcade mode oriented, it should stay that way, its not a big deal if you don't win every game as a killer, I have fun playing with my friends as killer when it comes out, BUT that last point is what BHVR needs to note, they can make Surv twice as strong and everyone is still going to queue for killer because of the unique gameplay element, they need to provide something unique but not broken to survivors that they can't do in regular games to balance queue times, not just buff abilities and items.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
games always fun to Me after a break. this game is best enjoyed casually. I've been casually grinding for Judgment and my games have been pretty chill, but I know that's just luck.
part of its maybe because I scheme up flavour builds and get into some funky shenanigans. People can yell at me and say things like "you can't do springtrap doors! they are inefficient bro! you're sandbagging us bro!" but it's because of what I do that Springtraps end up getting a little quirky and I get some funny matches.
"A Little Quirky"
Ball Knower?
FR though this game is very fun for me when I play to have fun over winning for both killer and survivor, that's the primary complaint right now for survivor especially right now, the game is forcing us to be in matches with people who are Comp minded when we are just trying to have a good overall experience win or lose. -
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111108#Comment_4111108
If killer keeps slugging you can abandon.
"Hey, if the Killer is making it unable for you to play the game, how about you just leave the game?"
And I started a post about this yesterday, naturally it got crazy downvoted, you get in trouble for doing that…. there is no honorable forfeit function, you are literally just stuck in games like this and the killer can absolutely draw it out without it being considered griefing, if they want their 4k so badly, and they want to do something like slugging for a 4k to do it, they can have it. let me go to the next game where I can actually engage in the game instead of laying on the ground for 4 minutes until I Bleed to Death.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111151#Comment_4111151
I can't nod with Executioner :( it makes him feel like a robot to face always so cold and unfeeling...except the ones that draw hearts and suspicious imagery
his head is nodding inside the pyramid