DodoSwarm
DodoSwarm
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118229#Comment_4118229
they didnt touch lightfooted, lightweight, lucky break, deception, iron will just to name a few stealth perks that are quite useful.
The dbd community has a really big issue with exaggerating what the devs or human behavior within the game are doing
you can't even reasonably categorize these the same way as the perks he's talking about. these are all examples of perks used within chases to confuse or disorient a killer, that's not stealth as in "avoiding the killers notice" its Evasion amidst chase.
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@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118197#Comment_4118197
It can block totems, but survivors can now break totems from like 10%-100% faster while also avoiding being able to scream. Thoth will now entirely depend on how often you can hook. Rather than protecting the totems manually like jason or judgement. So theres ways to keep people away from totems but once they touch them they get deleted in seconds.
For examples 'better than new' makes survivors break totems 50% faster, calm spirit 10% faster while immune to scream, 'flow state' 15% per stack up to 5 (75%)
What made totems hard to break was constant interuption while the totems took so long to break. Now you have a very short window to stop them by catching and hooking someone.
this entirely depends on perks survivors bring. no perk should be able to control a game because someone didn't bring something. there's no reasonable communication or way to see what allies bring in pre-game lobby. load into a game against a Jason or Judgement with a Hex defense build but you don't have anti Hex perks? game over.
The entirety of the Hex system needs fixing, Its another example of why BHVR continues to miss the mark by not actually fixing core gameplay problems and instead just rebalancing perks. -
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
The totem meta is gone now. Infact its easier to delete totems faster than ever.
it's not. TOTH is still a problem, maybe a worse problem for certain killers, very bizarre rework.
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@Ederson2002 said:
Western religion demon and not some folklore Yokai from Asia.
I want some typical Diablo stuff like Lilith
Bald Spirit is already in the game.
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@ForTheEntity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118156#Comment_4118156
I am not sure how to reply to this. We're not disagreeing.
it was more of a continuation than a counter point, sorry if it was worded badly.
The point was kind of "yeah I get what you mean, here's more" I guess "but overall" does sound like I was making a counter point in hindsight -
@ForTheEntity said:
The 6.1.0 patch actually was a major meta shake up because they nuked the meta at the time on both sides. Not just perks but with basekit changes to the game we've all been enjoying for 4 years on now. Looking at the list of changes they made in 6.1.0 is insane now. What a game changer it was.
10.2.0 is just a bunch of tweaks to mostly mid-range perks and the meta is practically untouched. The most used meta survivor perk, Lithe, got indirectly buffed now that Windows of Opportunity and Spine Chill both will buff vault speed.
I get what you're saying but overall the game hasn't changed. there's been QOL stuff for sure, and I am not trying to pretend like BHVR does nothing at all, I remember a lot of fixes that moved the game in the right direction from accessibility changes to important gameplay changes BUT the actual core game design is unchanged, entirely so. 8 generators, 12 hook states. nothing new to interact with, pallets/lockers/vaults/chests. no new meaningful objective for either side or game twists. it will take something like that to shift the meta.
If anything it's actually changed for the worse in a lot of ways regarding the overall state of gameplay. DBD has totally lost its horror game feel in favor of a pure game of cat and mouse, the few characters left that do provide a sense of horror do so through gimmicks like scratched mirror Myers (which people have just started to abuse for free mid MMR Solo Queue wins TBH) or the ever rare and once beloved Insidious Bubba.
People have learned what's most efficient to win in the current state of the game, changing perks won't change the practice. -
@100PercentBPMain said:
Overbrine didn't take over the game in the first week of 6.1 so let's just give things time to settle.
It's not a matter of waiting for things to settle though, is it? Things are going to stay the same, if anything the state of the game is going to get worse… a great many of the survivor perks which are being nerfed + the recent -5s of BT just make the established meta even more obvious for killer. Likewise if I can't be altruistic in any cool ways besides just directly healing a teammate, I am going to start genrushing, Tunneling is best countered by sitting on gens after all.
I'll restate it: The horrible and long standing meta of DBD will not change because BHVR has given zero reason for either side to change their playstyle, in order to get people to consider other perks and build ideas more consistently the game itself has to change to encourage that, not perk stats. -
yeah lets just go ahead and totally murder survivor altruism. StB? Gone, BT? Gone, Vigil? Gone, CoH? Gone, Styptic Agent? Gone, Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe? Gone.
We're in an Aura reading meta too. Nurses Calling is played in 12% of games. Sloppy Butcher is played in 6% of games. Vigil doesn't affect Broken/Mangled anymore either.
There's actually no way you believe survivor healing is too strong right now. -
@ForTheEntity said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HWV43RF8WUPF/pharmacy.png
I tested Pharmacy with Keys and Coins on the PTB and by the Entity this combo generates an absurd amount of items and far too many medkits. I could unlock the chest with the Key and get a rare medkit, rummage for another item and another survivor could still rummage yet again for another item.
I think Pharmacy should be:
Pharmacy
- The first 3 times you unlock a Chest, it will contain a rare Med-Kit.
- You unlock and rummage Chests 75/100/125% faster. (was only unlock) (stays on regardless of charges)
- You can rummage each Chest 1 time, up to 3 chests. (NEW)
- The range at which the Killer hears you unlocking Chests is 12m shorter. (stays on regardless of charges)
I think there should be a limit to how many medkits/items Pharmacy will generate. As it is currently on the PTB Pharmacy has the potential to provide what Boon: Circle of Healing used to, the ability for any survivor to go and heal themselves while the rest of the team is free to work on generators if they're not being pressured by the killer. Possibly even worse as there is no boon to stomp out, no way to drain items and multiple locations.
This would still be an absurdly good perk with 3 medkits/3 rummages as that is still at least 3 medkits. It just would have diminishing returns when paired with coins or, Entity forbid, the killer brings Hoarder.
there's definitely a ton of counterplay for items and chests in general… and regardless… if a survivor is running to a chest location to self heal they're not doing their primary objective.
A high percentage of Killers run Nurses Calling anyway (NiteLite shows around a 12% pick rate) and other kinds of aura reading are at an alltime high, not to mention Sloppy Butcher is still decently popular.
If this perk in its new state becomes popular why not just run Franklins + Weave Attunement. most people who run it go to the basement for a guaranteed chest anyway, so when you see them drop an item to rummage another one just go get a free down in the basement… -
@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118026#Comment_4118026
- For Bubba: If you vault the window and begin pre-revving your chainsaw, the survivor is going to vault back into shack and keep moving. Even with Bubba's fast pallet break I think the survivor gets enough distance to reach something else due to the density of pallets these days. Also I don't think the perk is very good on him in general (despite it being his perk) as he is so good at sawing through pallets that taking it specifically to try to outplay one specific tile which may not be in the map just isn't a good idea.
- For Myers: You're dead after dropping shack pallet in most circumstances anyway. A lot of shacks are pushed up against the corners of the map with the pallet side facing towards the edge map. If you reach the pallet Myers will try to charge Slaughtering Strike, break it, and then run you down and kill you, all of these shenanigans with Bamboozle and Knock Out are pointless. Myers is a 1v1 beast and it's why playing against him is so unpleasant these days.
- For Blight and Ghoul: If you're trying to play for distance versus these two then you're playing wrong anyway. Even without Knock Out you have to stay at whatever pallet you just dropped until the killer breaks it because you will not make it to a different tile without the killer breaking the pallet to put their power on cooldown. Even then there has to be something else within a few feet or they'll catch up with power and hit you. I do not see Blight especially ever running this perk.
- You don't play pallets versus Nurse except out of desperation, you try to break LoS and confuse her. If you ever drop a pallet versus Nurse it's because you have literally no other option and you're trying to stun her to buy a couple more seconds. Once she recovers from the stun she hits you regardless. No Nurse is ever going to run a perk which triggers off of survivors dropping pallets because it's completely pointless.
Out of all of the killers you just mentioned, the only one who is likely to run it is Ghoul, as they can use their vaulting power to outplay god pallets like the one in Garden of Joy's house, for example.
For Bubba: If you vault the window and begin pre-revving your chainsaw, the survivor is going to vault back into shack and keep moving. Even with Bubba's fast pallet break I think the survivor gets enough distance to reach something else due to the density of pallets these days. Also I don't think the perk is very good on him in general (despite it being his perk) as he is so good at sawing through pallets that taking it specifically to try to outplay one specific tile which may not be in the map just isn't a good idea.
The fact that Bubba IS good at sawing through pallets is what I am talking about, you have to understand that when you're playing in anything other than brand new player MMR everyone knows Bubba chews up pallets, that's why people are so inclined to drop them and… leave if they do that, they are immediately caught with the new knockout. it removes the entire point of smaller pallets being a mindgame.
For Myers: You're dead after dropping shack pallet in most circumstances anyway. A lot of shacks are pushed up against the corners of the map with the pallet side facing towards the edge map. If you reach the pallet Myers will try to charge Slaughtering Strike, break it, and then run you down and kill you, all of these shenanigans with Bamboozle and Knock Out are pointless. Myers is a 1v1 beast and it's why playing against him is so unpleasant these days.
That's even more of a reason that this perk change is a problem. if you're usually dead, with new Knockout you're definitely dead. and if you DO get the stun on him, you are even less rewarded on distance which is extremely important. Holding W is a practice BHVR created with their own Map and Killer Design, KO will turn hold W situations into Lose Lose situations for survivors. it's damned if I do and damned if I don't around like the most central PvP element in the game. "if I stay at this pallet I am definitely getting hit around it so I have to leave" is met with [20% hindered] for FIVE SECONDS Sprint burst is only 2 seconds. and even when it was properly balanced at 3 seconds a 20% Hinder will be present for nearly twice as long. this also greatly diminishes Smash Hit and Lithe as options for making distance on the other side of a pallet.
For Blight and Ghoul: If you're trying to play for distance versus these two then you're playing wrong anyway. Even without Knock Out you have to stay at whatever pallet you just dropped until the killer breaks it because you will not make it to a different tile without the killer breaking the pallet to put their power on cooldown. Even then there has to be something else within a few feet or they'll catch up with power and hit you. I do not see Blight especially ever running this perk.
gaining distance to get to the next loop/pallet is the core gameplay in DBD, you're not playing wrong for seeking that out lol that's ridiculous. I am talking specifically about unsafe pallets, of which there are a LOT. if you drop some of them without 5 moves ahead, it's entirely possible to get hit by the killer before you can even move again, and if not then, immediately afterwards, if you then run away from the pallet towards the next one, you will get 20% hindered for 5 seconds which is outrageous.
You don't play pallets versus Nurse except out of desperation, you try to break LoS and confuse her. If you ever drop a pallet versus Nurse it's because you have literally no other option and you're trying to stun her to buy a couple more seconds. Once she recovers from the stun she hits you regardless. No Nurse is ever going to run a perk which triggers off of survivors dropping pallets because it's completely pointless.
in high MMR? no… they aren't going to drop pallets to get away from a nurse, in Medium and low MMR? they absolutely are, I play the Nurse in 2v8 and people will genuinely drop a pallet for anything (I Know 2v8 is not a fair estimation of how 1v4 games play out, the point is that 2v8 has no MMR and lower MMR survs will drop pallets right away) so that's another problem of its own… disproportionately effecting mid-low MMR. Ranged killers fall into this same category.
there are other things that weren't clarified that could be extremely problematic as well KO + Spirit Fury / Dissolution come to mind first. AFAIK Dissolution did not work with KO but I am unsure about Spirit Fury, and even if they don't either of those two perks together totally counters looping pallets. if you try to stun the killer you get the eventual spirit fury, if you try to pre drop and stay at the pallet because of KO, there's a likely Dissolution in your future. -
@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4118029#Comment_4118029
Anti-camp exists, it probably will get nerfed by a bit anyway, but the just the vaulting speed is not a good enough bonus for the longer stun duration, it definitely needed a buff.
it's extremely common for killers to proxy camp, and especially prevalent for them to return to a hook when they know the stage timer is low, at that point anticamp doesn't matter, you are getting double tapped trying to unhook. a killer running this build would be aware they could do that too.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117940#Comment_4117940
Why wouldn't the survivor just vault the pallet back into shack if they see you vault the window?
You gotta read what I say before replying…
"it takes very little time to chainsaw a pallet" you already don't want to drop a pallet and be on the inside of shack most of the time because rather than trapping the killer in, you're trapping yourself in. if the window is bamboozled, and I chainsaw the pallet, you won't be out of the door before I am behind you. and remember this is the Strongest example. Knockout doesn't even help the killer on true god pallets, it makes already weak pallets outright unplayable…
I'm using Bubba in examples because I play him and Know I could easily get a free kill at shack with KO + Bamboozle but what about myers? it takes him even less time to shred that pallet, if you get trapped in shack with a bamboozled window because you're trying to avoid Knockout you're dead…
What about The Blight? the point of specifically trapping blight in the shack is because it's hard for blight players to gain on you without breaking the pallet but by that time you have time to run away from shack and get to a resource, in the case of Knockout you can't leave shack. or the worse scenario, what about blight on a filler pallet? you already have to leave because if the blight hits you around the filler pallet and then uses their power they can run you down even in your movement speed boosted state.
The Nurse? 20% slower movement because you did what you literally have to do and hold W away?
The Ghoul? you pre drop the pallet, they play around it, get their first free hit which is built into their kit, and you run away from the pallet and get a 20% hinder???
By the way the only deactivation constraint is "if you break the pallet" so if you het a survivor who is vaulting as its extremely easy to do on filler pallets, and they do the objectively right thing and use the speed boost for distance they then get 20% hindred for 5 entire seconds? absolutely ridiculous. -
@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117951#Comment_4117951
”Killers tend to be playing to win however possible, Survivors tend to be playing for fun”
This seems like a very biased comment. You have no way of objectively measuring this across the entire player base. Anyone could say the opposite (killers tend to be playing for fun and survivors tend to be playing to win however possible) without any evidence to back it up, and that would be equally valid to your argument because both arguments are subjective and based on no actual data.
It's pretty easy to gauge the overall sentiments of the communities respectively.
there's been an extremely consistent outcry from survivor players for a long time about the degradation of an enjoyable experience for the survivor side.
Further proof is that killers still most frequently and consistently tunnel at 5, I see that in more of my games than anything else, and the recurrent justification is "that it's efficient, and part of the game". as a matter of fact verifiably toxic mechanics like Slugging for a 4k (Twins Special) and Hard Tunneling are openly endorsed by both BHVR and killer mains as "a valid way to win" without considering or even admitting that it isn't fun for anyone else in the game and if there was a "Forefeit" option the killer would be left alone in 90% of the lobbies that they try to do that in because the burden of interaction lies with the killer, and choosing to tunnel at 5 is the most efficient way to curb stomp most middle MMR and low MMR lobbies, it's also extremely uninteractive… 3 people just sit on gens while the killer proxies and waits for them to come back to the hook over and over, it's predictable and boring. that proves killer intent to "win at all costs" VS "have an engaging game" and it's such a prevalent sentiment that it occupies the most heated discussions on the forums all the time. and it's even reinforced by the complaints that survivors are bodyblocking off of hook, which led to the nerf of BT on hook. they don't want to interact or chase, they want to win ASAP in a great majority of the games I am in.
Technically speaking its most efficient for survivors to sit on gens no matter what and just crank them out to rush to the escape gates as soon as possible but you really don't see that very much in regular games, it's another long time gripe of solo queue players that teammates are up to some nonsense while other things are going on… that's because the stripped down gameplay objective for survivor is boring and so people want to engage with the killer, the only way to do that is to practically make the killer engage with you anymore, they'll run past you to continue to tunnel, they'll run Lightborn so you can't even try to save other survs with flashlights, they'll run back into the hook as soon as they know you're headed for it because then its free hits and often a hook trade. that's what the mid MMR solo queue experience is like.
That is why I went the route of mentioning Content Creators, because everyone knows that Tutorial content in DBD is extremely lacking and that it has a very high percentage of players with 1000s of hours. people go to content creators for game information, that much is a fact.
Killer CCs are almost always entirely focused on winning however possible, the videos are marketed that way. it's either "So and so wannabe SWF rages after I kill them" or "This new build for the -insert killer- is PURE EVIL". meanwhile survivor videos are "DBD Late at Night" "Running this Meme Build" with the occasional "Run these perks to last longer in chase". if you are a new player and you look up DBD content for killer there is an excess of tutorial content from other players, for survivor it really comes down to watching someone who is very good at the game clown around for 10-20 minutes.
And I can speak to my own sentiment as well. I play 80/20 (survivor main) and the only reason I don't play killer is because it's uncompelling from a fun standpoint… killers are bland and interaction with survivors is very much limited from years of core gameplay that encourages people to hold W and avoid a chase while completing gens. you can play survivor with friends and just have a generally good time. Solo Queue is borderline unplayable these days, most games decided in the first few minutes and very few outlets for survivors to do anything about it. -
@Carth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117977#Comment_4117977
I agree aura reading is too prevalent now and should be nerfed/a base system change to prevent multiple aura reading from killer rolling out. It's as you say, you don't need to really use your eyes. The perks literally point you where to go
I'm not a fan of either personally because I think they're major contributing factors to the erosion of the horror aspects of DBD but because of the forced comp style match gameplay both have to stay, and it's extremely weird that BHVR is massively increasing killer aura reading options while massively decreasing survivor counters to it and now even decreasing survivors own capability to aura read.
If the Killer can see me even if I am hiding then it is a crutch, but because they can, I should be able to see where to go if I need to go somewhere. -
@Mortimer said:
Of course it won't change.
Tunneling and gen-regression have been buffed once again while on the other side they keep nerfing the few things that are actually useful for countering them.
They’ve even gone so far as to criticise the way survivors have to loop, punishing them for their optimal choice (check out the dev notes for the 200% buffed Knock-Out, lmao).
All the anti-tunnelling-camping-slugging measures have been torn to shreds because of all the tears, and we’re always back to square one; nothing will ever change.Yeah one of the killers I do play more often than not is Bubba, never with an optimal build, I prefer having fun and chasing everyone personally rather than making the game hell for everyone, myself included.
However, Bamboozle and Knockout are both in that build… I use Knockout because the counterplay for the pallet shredder killers on the extremely unsafe pallets is… pre drop and run… but if you think at all as the killer player… you just don't shred the pallet and go straight for the survivor instead… this leads to very easy and consistent insta downs with chainsaw on Bubba with the current knockout… the buff is a 400% buff on the hindered by the way (from 5% to 20%), if someone runs from the pallet they're absolutely getting instadowned now… and if they try to stay and play the pallet they're also getting instadowned… it's just a lose - lose for survivors and punishing a gameplay element that BHVR themselves created by adding a ton of filler pallets.
Again, this is why the Meta will not change without an actual content change. I am pretty annoyed that they specifically put the blame for the knockout changes on the survivors… weird choice. -
@chipsbone said:
There won't be a meta shakeup because the meta killers are untouched, the meta killer perks are untouched, and the meta killer strategies are, if anything, buffed by even more anti-tunnel perks being eviscerated.
This is part of it, but it's kind of included in what I mean… DBD totally lacks any real content switchups and then people act like changing the perk stats is going to fix the "Meta" when the Meta is enforced by the actual mainstay content / gameplay loop. Tunneling/Proxy Camping has been the most common and unchanged killer playstyle since I started playing 6 years ago, and survivor's "meta" has only changed in the way of making the game feel entirely worse to play, nothing new has been given to them just the next perks while old ones get nerfed one by one into being unusable, no content shakeup or change… literally just Fog Vials which are horrible. no core gameplay change, no other thing to do that actually benefits the match… nothing… so no matter how much the devs change perk stats, the favored perks aren't going to change because the alternatives are niche perks that don't have good value consistency. "balance" has just been making viable options unviable and keeping unviable options unviable also.
The same is true for killer… the game favors a boring playstyle that doesn't change, it's better to tunnel someone and defend hooks by proxy camping in 95% of games if I want a 4k… I don't want to play that way. I want the game to be engaging and interactive with Survivors, but the survivors gameplay has been so unchanged that people have just found better and better ways to avoid the killer and do gens with little interaction. -
@Carth said:
"beginner friendly" but its the most used survior perk after several years and allows you to auto pilot to yellow. (I think pain res should be nerfed for the exact same reason as I would point to most of the killer popular perks)
Okay? and the extreme increase in killer aura reading has made it just "auto pilot to ambient occlusion survivor spectre". that oversimplification means nothing, just because you can more efficiently path to a resource doesn't mean you are going to use it efficiently, just like Killer Aura Reading doesn't mean you're getting a free hit.
The new windows literally just changes it to make it entirely more useful for longtime players and heavily nerfs it for new players. removes most of its information ability but gives a 10% vault bonus lol… here comes Lithe + Windows on everybody. -
@Elan said:
Huntress and her p2w skins. :D After Were-elk they coudlve pay more attention.
Were Elk isn't really P2W he's really easy to loop because of his antlers, I get that he's quiet but Facemelter Eddie can be like 10ft away from you when you start hearing his terror radius
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117789#Comment_4117789
And now that you have to use 2/4 perks to replicate the same effect you have more incentive to take them off so you can try other perks and builds as you learn more.
I get people don't like change but I genuinely believe this is healthier in the long run. Windows is not as "necessary to play the game with" as others have made it out to be.
But maybe my view is biased by the amount of time I've put into the game. Or maybe I'm overestimating the number of people who care to get better. If I'm wrong I look forward to seeing 2 or 3 people running Windows + 5MA every game and gladly change my mind.
okay but Windows was a comfort perk, there's actually nothing wrong/op/unfair about it at all, the entire rework stems from the fact it's "used a lot" which is a blatantly terrible reason to change something. now survivors have to run two separate perks in place of a perk that formerly provided map knowledge for less experienced or less dedicated players, two perks means that the accessibility is further limited for new players rather than long time players because it's an extra survivor prestige requirement. yet another harm to new players rather than the people who do use it for a comfort perk.
if a survivor was using Windows to reach resources that has no negative effect on the killer, because there was no other bonus besides knowing where it is. it didn't help them reach it faster than they could if they didn't have it.
if anything it functionally helped killers, because it required a perk slot, which turned survivor perk builds into 3 perk builds rather than 4.
If anything this change disproportionately effects new players twice over because long time players will likely know where resources are and they'll know how much 10% vault speed changes things when choosing to vault a window.
It does nothing to "shake up the meta" either. Lithe is already the most favored Survivor Exhaustion perk especially now that SB got destroyed. Lithe + a 10% Vault bonus and knowing where the good windows are, throw in Dance With Me for a combo that disproportionately affects newer killers negatively. -
@T1MEXII said:
Not bad idea. I also think it could be like an Invocation where you are permanently broken after using it. That way all 4 survivors can use it and it has a massive downside. Could also add de-buffs for using it for a set amount of time like healing 15% slower or something like that.
The entire Invocation Mechanic is just outright trolling, there's no reason to ever use them and there shouldn't be more until BHVR fixes that design.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117817#Comment_4117817
You’re not regularly getting matched against killers on 500+ winstreaks. This is the same as the myth that killers go up against 4-man SWF comp squads every match.
But you go against a thousand copycats.
That's one of the long running problems between general survivor gameplay intentions and general killer gameplay intentions.
Killers tend to be playing to win however possible, Survivors tend to be playing for fun
when you are new to DBD it's much easier to pick up killer than survivor, however when you start running into survivors that have game knowledge then you have trouble as Killer… so tons of killers go to Killer main CCs where people who have tens of thousands of hours on DBD put out builds that are utterly abysmal for survivors to deal with on a regular basis. on the flipside survivor content creators are usually straight up clowning around and oftentimes losing while doing so. JRM is probably the biggest and most consistent example, and one of the first names you'll see if you look up survivor videos, maybe Skerms and Ayrun, Slate, even lesser known clip based survivor creators like Wheelman or Socks and 9/10 times you're tuning in to straight up nonsense like a bubba getting dropped in a hole with a toilet flush sound… I mean in most of those videos I watch the survivor players are dying more than they're living… and they're undeniably very good at the game.
So at "middle MMR" the survivors in games look like a mix of people playing casually, people who just aren't that good but are still trying "meta" builds, and people who are copycatting clown behavior… these are contributing factors to why it feels like people are constantly going against "tryhard" or "sweaty" killers.. -
@Zakon05 said:
You have a misunderstanding of the new design.
You have to move away from the pallet within 6 seconds to get the 20% hinder.
The killer cannot bloodlust you down during that time, as it takes 15 seconds for them to gain bloodlust 1. Additionally, if the killer is having to bloodlust you down, you're winning the chase regardless. Remember that you're trying to waste the killer's time, not necessarily actually escape the chase.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117788#Comment_4117788
You also have a misunderstanding of the perk's design. If the killer breaks the pallet, the hinder doesn't trigger. In the Bubba shack situation, the Bubba has to destroy the pallet to resume the chase, thus it will not trigger Knock Out.
I Didn't misunderstand anything.
Pallet Density is Unsafe Pallets, pallets where when you consider ping and various different killer abilities, you pre drop them and run to the next thing ASAP if you don't get the stun. If I am playing Bubba, or Hillbilly I am not breaking that pallet, I am chasing you and you're getting caught. if BHVR wants people to play pallets then they need to stop adding pallets with no room for mindgames or playing potential.
I Specifically used Bamboozle + Knockout in my example for shack, the reason for this is because if you drop it, I will go through the window and keep you at shack, you will run around shack and re-vault the pallet which puts you inside shack with a bamboozled window where Bubba can catch you almost immediately as it takes very little time to chainsaw a pallet, OR you run away from shack and I just vault the window and catch you because 20% hinder is ridiculous.
The entire redesign is just senselessly removing an aspect of counterplay, holding W from a pallet IS valid counterplay and it's reinforced by the amount of killers that have almost guaranteed hits around a lot of these pallets. if BHVR doesn't want people to hold W they need to stop releasing killer powers that encourage people to hold W and fix pallet density so that it provides less pallets overall but more reasonable pallets. why do you think 5 moves ahead is so popular? it's because dropping a pallet without being able to move can outright get you hit around it on a lot of these pallet spawns.
BHVR has to stop punishing players with perk redesigns to make up for their poor game design, that's not how you balance a game.
It's evident in the actual patch notes too, I am not just imagining their sentiment:Dev Note: We want Knock Out to feel impactful in those cases where Survivors don't loop around pallets.
??? Survivors arent looping around pallets because the pallets in question suck. fix the actual game, stop tweaking perks and making the game hell for people trying to play with the nightmare design that already exists.
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Not that much is going to change. a "meta" shakeup will really happen when BHVR actually does something interesting to the core gameplay loop that requires a rethink and allows players for both killers and survivors to formulate new ways to play around it, stomping popular perks into the ground just because they're popular rather than addressing the gameplay reasons around why they are popular isn't even a valid way to balance let alone shake up a meta.
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@AGM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117744#Comment_4117744
There is no such thing as a perfectly balanced game. Imo, I wouldn't expect Windows to have such sustained use over time if it was just used as training wheels for survivors. While I agree with you that old Windows helps newer players do better, I also believe that at this point many use it as an excuse to not get better at the game. I agree with the devs' decision to split seeing auras of pallets and windows between two perks.
there's nothing wrong with people not knowing every facet of every map btw… it's totally unreasonable to call a perk a "crutch" for people who "don't want to get better at the game" when at this point DBD has maybe even a higher game knowledge learning curve than games like LoL or DOTA…
There's also absolutely nothing wrong with people playing this game casually, I think there's a significant portion of the playerbase who would rather play the game casually as opposed to min/max run the best everything and coordinate with a SWF to win all of the time. -
yeah, and the pallet density update literally encourages pre-dropping, on many maps there's a large percentage of pallets that are totally unsafe and with ping always a question + certain killers requiring pre drop anyway BHVR created that practice… even worse the patch notes seem to blame players for the choice to leave pallets after dropping them.
I play Leatherface, I choose to play him without tunneling or camping but it's a fact he's built around tunneling and camping and even though he's one of the lower tier killers if you drop an unsafe pallet against Bubba early and he has Knockout you're dead now, it's just over… it was honestly not hard to catch people with knockout beforehand… it's currently in my perk setup for him… and Bubba is a weaker example. Hillbilly will absolutely catch you and it's not a debate.
Here's an example of a problem though: Almost everyone playing Bubba runs bamboozle… Shack is all of the sudden a "you're going to die and there's nothing you can do about it" loop when a bubba has Knockout + Bamboozle and oftentimes that's where the basement is…
It's just needlessly turning what little of a mindgame there was around filler pallets into a lose lose-lose situation for survivor against just about any killer… of course low tier killers will benefit from it but the killers that will benefit the absolute most will be the already movement and map control capable killers
Regardless of any of that a 400% buff on literally anything is outrageous… why would they go straight for 400% not even just double the previous number… -
Killer:
KIller has never felt particularly good to play, not because I can't get kills or because it's too easy or anything prideful and crazy, balance of perks for killer doesn't matter to me either, my issues is that they don't feel unique almost ever. it's kinda just a lame way to make a game about killers for me… and the fact the game has gone more and more in the direction of making sure peoples ego's are in tact and nothing can be too much of an inconvenience just serves as more of a reason not to play killer. if I am going to play a killer I want them to be unique and compelling… not "fat bottle guy" or "bear trap man", or even worse… what they've done to licensed killers. the one killer I did enjoy when I came to DBD was myers, and I'm not talking about perma T3 insta mori myers which nobody liked, I mean myers that wasn't a dash slop merchant and a soulless design in a husk of myers likeness. Freddys dreamstate has always been extremely lacking, and even now when I do play killer I play Unknown or Bubba respectively because The Unknown has a level of individuality in being rooted in uncanny horror, and Bubba because he's a meme. in short, I really dislike that DBD strives to bend killers around the game, I think a Horror Asym should bend the game around the killer… I think the killer themselves should propose a different game, not different stats to run around a pallet…
Survivor:
So I played mostly survivor… which is just getting unfathomably worse, like incomprehensibly worse… The Devs do nothing at all to deal with mainstay survivor problems, everyone hates tunneling, it immediately removes the entire fun of playing a match when someone is getting hard tunneled, BHVR normalizing mechanics that are entirely BM, no matter what people say about them, is horrible Design. I understand in the current state of the game killers need to tunnel sometimes, and also slug sometimes, that doesn't make either thing good for the game.. not even remotely. The game has a huge toxicity problem already, I don't know why anyone would be surprised that toxicity is at an alltime high when valid killer strategies include singling someone out and making sure they can't play the game or keeping as many people possible laying on their face until they either bleed out or all go down and DC… Even if those things aren't at all personal for the killer player, literally nobody wants to deal with that ever, it's abysmal game design and the fact that BHVR doesn't seem keen on doing anything about it, and has recently made it even more viable alongside making other incomprehensible changes to perks that were fine for survivor just makes me want to move on and never touch this game again.
Other:
Halloween: The Game has reminded me in a huge way of what Asymm horror is about… it's about horror, and there's major parts of gameplay DBD is missing out on, DBD isn't a comp game, it just can't be… the framework of the game isn't capable of it… there's way too many inconsistent features to ever reach true competitive balance but the fact that that BHVR seems to be pushing it to that while denying fundamental necessities for games like that is a bad look. Halloween is insanely unbalanced and also extremely broken and buggy but what shines through it is that the game feels like you're really trying to escape a slasher, and the stakes feel high without being annoying by design. I understand the concepts of DBD and Halloween are way too different to compare one to one BUT what I am getting at is that if everything is broken in Halloween, it still feels like an engaging Horror Asymm where you can talk to people and have tons of fun because of the setting itself rather than feeling like an unnecessarily high stakes comp environment despite having no ranked mode or barebones features required of a game like that.
TLDR: Killers are lame and way too linear in a way that's often entirely unfun to play against and equally uncompelling to play as, a handful of the killers even have designs that are outright toxic inherently, regardless of the intent of the killer player themselves (Twins, Plague, Ghoul, Knight, Etc) and this happens because they're given no room to be able to express their personality as killer… its how well they can patrol gens, how fast they can patrol the map, how well they can outplay mindgames and structure loops… that's kind of it… and that leads to designs that feel bad, because despite a non-linear game featuring 40+ individual killers the gameplay is extremely linear.
Survivor was fun for a long while but as about 75% of my hours are from solo queue, playing this game over the last 6 years and seeing Behaviour do basically nothing at all to solve core problems with the survivor experience while also releasing power creeped killers who excel even more at contributing to aspects of the game people hate finally reached the boiling point for me in these last few updates, too many absolutely unnecessary nerfs and nothing in return for survivor. the sentiment has just been "deal with it" and i'm just done dealing with it.
I would love to see the game change for the better, that's why I am still active on the forums, but until then I'm not playing. -
@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117637#Comment_4117637
I'm talking about recent perks but three of the killers you listed are still the top 10 if not top 5 strongest killers in the game. And the last thing to happen to Dracula was Warg's Fang becoming outrageously strong. Good Trickster players who hit their shots don't seem to consider the Trickster changes a nerf and the decay takes forever now.
Don't know if I would call Dissolution meta. Blood Favor is debatable too. DMS just lost a synergy. It still does the same thing. Nowhere to Hide is probably the only meta one to get a proper nerf. SB, Vigil, Deli, Windows, Five Moves were all hard meta. Vigil is dead and SB has almost disappeared from my matches. Windows is cooked. Killers also haven't lost anything basekit, unlike survivors.
Thrill doesn't look like a nerf to me at all. The rework will block totems from being cleansed repeatedly. It's a side grade if anything. It just isn't free value anymore. It's also technically a niche build perk. Did Pain Res, Pop, Grim, TBtC, Corrupt, Lethal or BBQ get nerfed? Nope. Nurse's is meta ans it got buffed for some reason.
It's becoming kind of obvious what it is, any survivor perks that have a real impact, like a tangibly helpful effect outside of stats or situational effects is being systematically gutted, I went over this with vigil with several people: Vigil did not "do too much" it was generalized on purpose, and It should have remained generalized "omg VIgil affects so many different things that's just too much" but in reality it didn't because no killer was causing nearly all of these effects in a game, it was a general option to help relieve status effects. a proper nerf would to be simply reduce the percentage, but no, zero effect to negative status effects and a flat 30% effect to exhaustion" abysmal.
Its even more insane that they dumpstered Vigil and then also dumpstered sprint burst immediately after… unreasonable nerf too 1/3 of its effectiveness gone. that means if you accidentally collide with the extremely janky terrain for a brief moment, or fall from a small height you will get almost zero distance at all, it's actually a joke to bring SB against any killer who has any kind of movement ability now.
Perks SHOULD have an effect, that's why people run them, and apparently it's inconceivable to BHVR that a survivor perk should actually consistently benefit a survivor.
StB? Noticeable effect, has to go right now
and the Windows / 5 Moves being split up is just a setup, people have already been talking about the fact Lithe is a very likely nerf in the future, I would place a bet that before long "Lithe + WoO is too strong! the extra Vault boost should be a different perk because the survivors get too much value!"
Meanwhile killers are being powercreeped… and at the same time the older less powercreeped killers are being used as excuses for why survivor perks need to be nerfed (like Clown and Freddy kept being brought up for Vigil) or the classic "what about the poor M1 Killers!!!" I don't even have a personal problem with the Judgement but she totally negates dozens of survivor perks… like okay… not to mention the fact that Killers have single perks that remove entire facets of survivor counterplay and its totally fine but man if there's a chance a survivor perk is able to really inconvenience a killer it's a travesty…
There was genuinely no reason to even change BT but ofc they went ahead and did it, and they killed Self Preservation too, kind of unbelievable IMO
there are so many aura reading perks in the game right now and limited options for survivors to effectively counter them… largely because Distortion was totally gutted because… it had an effect on games (oh no!) -
If a killer wants to confirm the kill since you let the person hit second you can just crank out gens for nearly 140 seconds, rip off hook and transfer the hook stage to yourself so the killer is in a lose-lose situation they can do nothing about.
I mean come on… how is this even a talking point, the Killer could also be… pressuring the map and gens for 140 seconds. the killer is out nothing for that, actually. it's a strategic move by the survivors that costs them one active survivor on the map for 140 seconds. if you're playing a mobile killer like Blight (ironically your PfP) you should have ZERO problem keeping chase and gen pressure against 3 people in that span of over 2 minutes.
if the killer plays poorly in that entire span and then wants to return to hook for a freebie kill but can't get it because someone transfered the hook state that is happening because the killer played poorly and the survivors played well. that's how PvP games are supposed to work. and they CAN do something about it. if you don't want 3 survivors to crank gens for 140 seconds then put them on hooks also. if you can't then its an issue of you not playing well enough, or having to admit that maybe you're not the greatest player in the entire world and sometimes survivors outclass you.
"lose lose situation you can do nothing about" in an asym game where the killer holds all of the power to… kill is crazy btw.
you can call me simple minded but that's literally what it did. how you choose to respond to a hook state being moved is up to you, but maybe if you're resting on being able to tunnel someone out and you lose because they stop you from doing that, you are to blame because you went into a game expecting to tunnel someone to win and they prevented it. -
@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117295#Comment_4117295
STB has been the strongest perk in the game since it was added with Taurie. Sprint burst WAS the strongest EXHAUSTION perk. Not the strongest perk in general.
STB doesn't affect a grand majority of games btw, Interestingly enough… it's also an anti tunnel perk… -5s of BT, STB Obliterated, SB Obliterated… Tunneling is STILL the number one most loathed aspect of DBD and it doesn't really have a close second, and BHVR continues to endorse it.
STB has a less than 3% pickrate and it doesn't set the killer back directly at all, it just moves a hook state. so destroying it yet again disproportionately affects solo queue by closing out another avenue of altruism build and destroying a perk that actually had value that made people want to bring it…
Which is another extremely bizarre design choice by the way, it's like BHVR thinks survivor perks that have a noticeable effect on a game are a bad thing. people want to bring perks that are going to have an effect, survivor players are getting increasingly angry because perks that do have an effect and can lead to memorable moments in the game or game saving plays are getting stripped away.
SB gets guaranteed value every game it's brought even though that value varies (now the perk sucks so it's debatable), but for nearly 10 years It could get you out of a deadzone and to a pallet or vault, now it really can't especially not against high movement killers. STB has no value if you are tunneled directly, and it only gets real value when someone is getting tunneled besides yourself. It's banned in COMP because when the very very top players in the game use it, it can be broken when going against some killers, just like there are perk builds for killer that are banned in COMP.
And i'll remind you BHVR almost never does anything to make up for nerfs on survivor side, it's just a trend of everything getting worse… what's most baffling is that it's also not even a reasonable nerf, like ever… they take good perks and turn them into abysmal perks because they just totally thrash every aspect of them. Vigil is a waste now, SB is a waste now, Distortion is a waste now, STB is a waste now, even perks like Dead Hard are extremely easy to wait out as killer now and killer power creep is making more and more things weak anyways. -
@bingbongboi90 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4117253#Comment_4117253
Hex thrill of the hunt is litterly nerfed harder then shoulder the burden. Thrill is basically shot at the knees
TOTH is a unique problem though, the perk itself is defining how viable / unviable hexes as a whole are, that's entirely bad design for the sake of the game. STB does not share this problem in the slightest, and there's no justifiable reason to nerf it even nearly as significantly as they did.
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@Brimp said:
No reason? This perk was considered by many to be the strongest survivor perk in the game. Preventing a kill for the low cost of taking that persons hook state and 40 seconds of exposed. It still provides that same super strong effect with harsher downsides. Almost anyone would agree that having four survivors up with one hook stage on two of them is WAY stronger than one dead survivor and three with no hook stages.
It's FAR from gutted.this seems to be the repeated talking point lol… Vigil and SB just got thrashed as well, yeah of course the next best thing is going to be the strongest if everything in front of it is nerfed and barely anything is ever restored for survivor anymore. and what's worse is BHVR almost NEVER regularly nerfs anything, it's always a curb stomp that feels unnecessarily bad.
What's next? Lithe is the strongest perk and it's always run so it needs to be nerfed? it's just a slow erosion of survivor perks which disproportionately affects the regular players. -
yeah, I'm just tired of it, I'm not playing anymore… The fact that they announced it and made a big deal of it and then entirely walked it back without talking really any more about it, and also went on to buff tunneling and nerf multiple longtime mainstay survivor perks into the ground right after too, I'll just play something fun.
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@Arcturus said:
I haven't experienced it to that extent but it does seem like people don't like Scratched Mirror anymore. Maybe because now you can just make yourself 4.4? Not really sure, I used to play Scratched Mirror and bring people to Midwich, Lerry's or Hawkins and just mess with them all game, then let them all go and moonwalk at the exit gate for fun, got some great reactions. Nowadays people seem to not enjoy it as much, and I will say a lot of Scratched Mirror Myers that I've run into have hard tunneled as well, which is like, if you feel the need to do that on Scratched Mirror why are you using the addon lol
also, in a handful of the more recent scratched mirror myers players I have gone against have realized they can very easily hard camp a hook, which adds to the tedious nature of the addon, its one of those things that I think was made and originally used mostly for fun but as time has gone on it has been used more to be annoying.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
The biggest reason that this happens is that BHVR doesn’t take this kind of harassment seriously. People say stuff like that because they know they won’t get banned for it. I’ve reported many people for similar hateful stuff and most of my reports never get responses.
I do wonder if this is for the same reason that they don't make their MMR public or do anything real to combat the most toxic practices in this game, which is that it's so overwhelmingly prevalent that if they crack down on it for real, a very large chunk of the player base will get banned/stop playing… I think the new MMR is no less suspicious than the old MMR for backfilling players into lobbies regardless of their MMR… its suspected they do this because of queue times, likewise they don't take nearly any action for toxicity, I wonder if it's for queue times…
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@HexSlugged said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115933#Comment_4115933
I dont think halloween has a future unless they make some major major changes to how the game works. I expect its going to drop off quite quick. when you take away the gimmick of people screaming at each other in prox chat and blaring their music over the mic, as people are figuring out the game and how it works are are already starting to optimise what to do, if there arent major balance and mechanical changes, the game will be dead, as right now while people dont know what theya re doing yet it gives it more life, this game has some extreme holes already showing by people who start to understand the game.
I think what goes beyond a gimmick is that they actually did great justice to a horror Icon. Playing Myers feels like it should overall, and playing against myers often provides similar encounters to the common ones from the movies.
DBDs style prevents them from making any one character truly themselves because there are too many boundaries to the core game to allow it. nevermind how atrocious the myers rework was even within the games boundaries…
Because DBD is competitively focused it forgoes the possibility of some of the coolest types of experiences in Halloween like fleeing a house as Michael kills someone and locking the door to the house across the street only for you to turn around and find that he's already there.
there will never be an audience for the game as large as DBD of course, because ultimately even if he is one of the pinnacle horror Icons, Myers is one playable character, but I think Halloween can definitely live with its current gameplay loop (so long as the various major bugs and gameplay issues are resolved) -
@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4115347#Comment_4115347
there was cupboard sex min game thing but I heard there is like a 60 yo character that was able to do it with the 17 yo chacters so they patched it out (i cant play either in Australian )
it wasn't quietly removed, they confirmed the Loomis thing was a bug and the feature was temporarily removed because of this. NGL though the fact Loomis and the Cops could show up, get crossfaded (which you still can do), and then do it in the closet and not help kill myers at all was absolutely wild… one of the more insane bugs I have seen in a game ever.
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@Linkdouken said:
I'd like to try the Halloween game but quite frankly, I don't see it worth spending money on from what I've seen.
It looks extremely similar to Friday 13th game and I gave up on that due to bugs (such as getting stuck in a hiding place until getting killed) that makes it unplayable.
What are your thoughts? Have you played it are you going to?
game is awesome! it's so unserious and it's been super refreshing to encounter very little toxicity in general even in a game with Voice Chat.
However it is super buggy right now, I have about 30hr in it and the atmosphere of the game is great but I believe when the major gameplay bugs are resolved the game will be worth getting.
Myers really feels like himself, and his design enforces that he plays that way, the ever walking boogeyman that somehow catches you around the corner. main complaint from me is the NPCs general awareness and pathing is ridiculously bad right now, we will see what the day 1 patch looks like. -
genuinely how can the answer be anything but Fallen Refuge, that map is abhorrent for everyone… it's like half of a map with a terrible greyscale filter, it barely even has a main building.
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@RedCentipede said:
I do same thing with Legion does mean it's survivor sided? Yes it is absolutely survivor sided. How many games are we seeing survivors give up and throw which means auto win for the killer?
that's not a good thing, you're just pointing out another long unresolved problem in DBD which is that the survivor experience often sucks to the point of people just outright quitting over a lot of things… (not justifying quitting, I am just saying it happens in DBD more than anything)
People are probably DCing against legion because the counterplay is abysmal and the builds people run on legion suck to deal with at all… it's just tedious. -
@lovlor said:
if BHVR decides to nerf the universally usable perks to conditionally usable perks, then they need to let survivors know which killer they are up against before match starts.
this exactly. Vigil could have just had its percentages nerfed and otherwise stayed the same. just removing hindered would have been a rather big nerf on its own.
Vigil didn't do "too much" it did something against a number of negative status effects, rarely more than two of which were ever present in a single game.
there are way too many perks in DBD that are conditional and the conditions in question are entirely dependent on what the killer (or even the map sometimes) is, but those are unknowns. -
@AshleyWB said:
Don't really know where the best place is where I can post my thoughts on Halloween the Game but from what I've seen so far it's another game competitor to dbd that I'm having a hard time thinking it'll be successful a few months after launch.
Dbd even with it's issues is head and shoulders above anything else and it just seems like it'll remain the case for a while 😅
I'm so confused in the copium and hopium of people who want new asymmetric games to do well solely because they bought them so it must deserve a chance when it's clearly a downgrade from F13😄
Omg I hope I'm wrong but credit to dbd Devs and the player base for being being determined to improve and vocal when something is obviously trash.
(Best place would have been to create a new conversation)
But IDK, I think Halloween will do fine, to bring it back to the topic of this thread, A LOT of people are fed up with hard tunneling right now, and one of the things Halloween will offer is the opportunity to interact and even come back as another character after being killed. it will also have the VC people have requested for years and years, unlike DBD, and I love the depth put into bringing Michael to life…
However, there's just no way it will compete player for player against DBD, it's just not realistic… but I bet it will survive pretty handily for a decent amount of time and at least give BHVR some things to think about.
and most of all: the feel of a real slasher again! that's why I originally even picked up DBD… I love Halloween, Scream, Nightmare on Elm Street, ETC and have been upset that a lot of these horror icons feel poorly made or even worse, poorly remade in the case of Myers in DBD… hopefully DBD will see the positive response to an asymm game that favors horror and setting over perfect competitive gameplay (which DBD will never have anyway, no matter how hard people try to make it happen) I can't wait to feel like i am involved in a slasher and not "loop the knife guy" at least for a while. -
@Mushwin said:
Just wondering, growing up and you saw scary horror movies, what terrified you? like made you near well, shart ones pants? but then today if you watched it be like, why was I scared? Okay reason I saw older viewers as back in my day movies were scary esp at a young age where no one really cared what you saw lol. So here are mine, Childs Play, Kolobos, Dolly Dearest, (Also not horror but a scene in Jaws where Quinn gets bitten in half and blood comes up and also from Willow with the witch waking up at the end lol)
More ambient stuff that's closer to something that feels like it "could" happen… Jump Scares are forgettable and common most of the time unless done really well… I still think about the more uncanny movies I have seen: Lake Mungo, Noroi, Blair Witch, and generally just the films that give a long and lasting sense of wrongness… Noroi actually kind of felt more or less real with the particular found footage style and there's a couple of scenes I will never forget.
Honorable Mention: Specifically the Fourth Kinds theater trailer… I didn't find the movie to be very good at all but the trailer still creeps me out.@Wezqu said:
The funny thing that the scariest thing for me that I sometimes still think of was not a horror movie but the first episode of the Moomin (1990) animated series. The scene where Moomintroll hid in the magicians hat and it changed him to look like a real troll. When I saw that as a kid it was the scariest thing for me. Nothing else in the series really ever made me scared but that scene where he gets changed and nobody believes him to be Moomintroll until Moominmamma finally walks in and reassures Moomintroll that she of course regonizes her own son. Maybe you could say I have minor athazagoraphobia that I myself realized having because of that scene in kids show.
I also did not like to watch the X-Files tittle sequence. Mainly because of the music made it eyrie and specifically the spot where the human siluette falls into the hand print something in that just made me feel uneasy.
Like I never had big problems of watching horror or scarymovies myself.
I also did not like to watch the X-Files tittle sequence. Mainly because of the music made it eyrie and specifically the spot where the human siluette falls into the hand print something in that just made me feel uneasy.
W Mention! I feel like The X Files still hold up, and even surpass more modern Extraterrestrial horror, it's just extremely good at being uncanny to the point of actually making me uncomfortable.
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@MeepLord1576 said:
none of these. none really seem like they'd be good additions. I'd say the ones I want most are Pennywise (it) and Roy (DHMIS). Blair Witch would fit too.
how would you put blair witch into a game when The Blair Witch in question isn't even directly a part of the movies? not hating just curious how you think that could come about
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I don't think The Knight is an example of a killer who is hard to play at all… the problem is that his primary counterplay is to hold W, so making pallets consistently interact with the guards means survivors have another form of counterplay and also will be more likely to throw otherwise very good pallets to avoid guards which can be to the detriment of survivors in the long run.
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@MeepLord1576 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114315#Comment_4114315
Really? I like Unknown and some of the killers after him are fun as hell (my main is the lich)
I just meant that Fiddlesticks gameplay design in motion is similar to The Unknown's idea of leaving body doubles around (though Fiddlesticks leaves scarecrows)
https://youtu.be/tq9bB6QPAdA?list=RDtq9bB6QPAdA
There's always just been an excellent horror footprint around Fiddlesticks: Older than time, demonic embodiment of fear, has no voice of his own, only cruel imitations of the one's he's killed, uncanny and uncertain visage, no reason to become some existential threat to the world itself but instead chooses to lurk the countryside and pass by as a legend, although being very real.
his rework Character Theme is also one of the more bizarre and actually chilling themes for a character in any game IMO: -
the nails were put in this coffin when the Unknown came out IMO but I (thankfully) quit League of Legends years ago and still think about the generally awesome horror design behind Fiddlesticks, one of the cooler horror designs from an otherwise non-horror game I have ever seen
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
Plague can infect anything and everything that is interactable on the maps, and can keep people broken, even if that means she's an m1 killer, being broken permanently is a pain and always a death sentence, specially for solo que survivors, and if they and the only way to counter that is to max all the pools to reset them all? Not only that, but her m2 has insane range and can 2 tap people, and after that, she goes back to infecting everything, and keeps this frustrating loop in motion, which I'd a bad design, when wesker and krasue were released, they were broken, but now, they are balanced, however. The BIG DIFFERENCE is that their infections rarely and almost NEVER get to 100% bc they reset or disappear easily either by hook or the built in counter, while Plague doesn't have this issue due to how easy it is to infect everything, unlike the other 2, not only this, but the 1 gen lock down, regardless of build, is very annoying, bc she can infect everything, it literally depends on the generator distance and rng of the map, while yes, she is an older killers, but I think something needs to be done for the Plague to prevent this massive macro 1 gen pressure that seems impossible to win against, but then again... I could be wrong on this and be stupid because I don't go against her enough, but as a killer and survivor player, from both perspectives? It just seems like she needs to be looked at when compared to other infection killers and have severe limits on their infections, like losing it when hooked or the infection getting reset on hook
The problem with The Plague is that she is simultaneously very weak, and very oppressive. her actual status as a killer compared to other ones lands her pretty low already on the tierlist BUT her entire playstyle and design is a very bad game design that feels oppressive to deal with.
DBD is marketed as a 1v4 but dominated by solo queue which is more realistically a free for all… even in higher MMR people prioritize their own escape over the team on a regular basis. plague offers two things: A complete and total shutdown of dozens of survivor builds and ideas, just no altruism in general, and also a Counter Play mechanic that often outright griefs the other survivors.
However SWFs can shut down The Plague pretty easily.
She also falls into the category of killers who immediately cause people to give up semi-often because her design is so annoying and tedious to deal with. if DBD did have a ban feature I guarantee The Plague would be banned by a good amount of people just because her entire design is at no point engaging or interesting… very few people like spending a match permanently broken and throwing up violently every few seconds.
The Plague cannot really be "nerfed" though, she'll be unplayable if that happens, she really needs to be totally redesigned but I highly doubt BHVR will do that, at least not for a long while as she's rarely played and fairly hated by survivors. -
@Angy_Quentin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113970#Comment_4113970
It's not about nerfing vigil. It's about reworking it.
And you've only made a comparison, you didn't adress any of the concerns or solutions i've presented.
The reality is that Vigil was nerfed, though. it wasn't reworked, it just straight up lost 80% of the perks value. that is again, why I brought up the inconsistency of game design.
I Don't really have a reason to address your concerns or solutions because I don't really have an issue with them, the entire reason I initially replied was not related to your solutions for the perk, it was just to point out exactly what I already have.
IF we're nerfing things because they "affect too many things" then the plague had better be next, and then the Judgement right afterwards since they void so many builds and perks just by existing.
I don't think those things should be nerfed or gutted btw, I am using them as an example to show how poor the justification for nerfing Vigil was. I do not like the idea that survivors aren't supposed to have generalized perks but the killers are, especially when the killers are at the end of the day facing four of the same thing (save for perk slots) and survivors are facing 40+ killers all with different playstyles and builds. -
I think I am just starting to notice a change on survivor, I play killer less but I have played 10 or so bubba games and those ones are still all over the place between high MMR and the lowest MMR possible…
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@NotJared said:
I feel my point is being intentionally misconstrued to align with the initial social media vitriol felt towards this feature's announce before it was even tried in-game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113901#Comment_4113901
Judgment is a very unique character in the DBD roster in that they're the only character that can instantly injure just about anybody on the map, anywhere, any time.
If adding an accessibility feature would kill the Killer because the only way they are able to get downs is by hitting people nowhere near the Killer who are focusing on objectives and have no idea where they're about to get hit from, then something is seriously wrong with the Killer's design.
The Killer needs to be viable in chase. If a Killer's only viability is by attacking players who are both not currently engaged in chase or expecting to be attacked, that is a design failure.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4114028#Comment_4114028
You've taken my comment out of context to passively insult me, which is not very kind nor productive. Please keep conversations respectful on here.
When players are healing or doing gens, with no terror radius in sight, they may reasonably not be expecting to be attacked and have no idea where the beam is coming from. Often times, by the time Survivors realize a beam is coming, they can't react quick enough.
I'm not having a bad time playing against this, but I'm advocating for the average casual DBD player. Many, many players are clearly not enjoying this chapter and are struggling against this Killer because they can't react in time to getting shot from an unexpected direction.
I can't get through a single Judgment game without players insta-DC'ing after getting sniped or insta-giving up or going next. While you and I more hardcore gamers may not necessarily think they're OP, I think this should say something about the broader player experience.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4113899#Comment_4113899
An additional consideration, as the devs explained, is accessibility concerns. I know you can hear the beam coming. Of course you can pay attention to that if you can hear it. It's very clear that you can hear the Beam coming. If you can hear the Beam coming, then even if you're not looking at it, you should know it could be coming your way and to move.
But what about Deaf and Hard of Hearing players who can't hear it coming?
If a visual VFX were added, that wouldn't kill Judgment any more than a global SFX, which already exists. It's just another feature that would help people react and would be great Deaf/HoH accessibility.
DBD players have been arguing and fighting against Deaf and Hard of Hearing accessibility features in this game since day one. This game has been infamously inaccessible since its inception. It took us six years of us fighting AGAINST accessibility before they decided to add the visual heartbeat, and now it's one of the more beloved features in the game. It took us almost a decade before simple colorblindness accessibility features were added.
I'm not clear on why everyone hates the idea of a non-directional VFX even for accessibility concerns when there's already a global directional SFX. A screen VFX wouldn't give you any more information that you can't already hear - as a matter of fact, it would give you less information since it doesn't tell you where it's coming from or how close it is.
I'm earnestly asking, what is the concern with adding a Screen "Beam is heading your way" VFX? Would it ruin your ability to hit players who have no idea where they're about to get sniped from? That it would tell players who can already hear that a beam is nearby thanks to the global directional SFX that a beam is nearby?
Everyone keeps pointing out that you can hear it, so genuinely, what difference would a non-directional VFX make if it's supposedly easy enough to sidestep it from directional SFX alone?
I mean I know what you're saying but people who main killer wanted something different and judgement is definitely that… as a survivor player I think she can be decently fun to go against even if she's got a strong snowball potential she also has a strong flop potential… Judgement is just nowhere near the top of my "least favorite killer" list…