Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Noz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2090012#Comment_2090012
This would be incredibly oppressive. Once you put 7 knifes in everyone and injure like 2 people you basically won the game.
he would have unique play-style and actual strength that other range killers would not have access to. Given response to the suggestion, he is in this current spot for this exact reason. He is balanced by survivor mains, that is why it is so easy to escape against him and any change you suggest to improve him is met with "too oppressive". I do not see how 5 seconds of laceration is going achieve anything.
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@Noz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2089893#Comment_2089893
If you m1 a guy he loses 4 laceration, so that would not work.
I am saying if laceration had no timer and no mechanic reduced laceration, he could the 7 blades, leave the survivor, M1 them and than just throw a single knife and down survivor. obviously they'd need to rework those add-on that change the timer. He would have way more strategic depth in his decision making.
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@Witas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2089813#Comment_2089813
I actually disagree, making his laceration not decay or decay after a tremendously long delay would just make him play like Myers or Ghostface where he "99%s" people, Im far more behind the idea of him being a purely chase killer.
It would give him more strategy if laceration did not decrease. he could throw 6-7 knives, leave a survivor than m1 them later and he would only need single knife to down that survivor. Those changes are good but I suspect he will still down too slowly to keep up with the game tempo.
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@Yords said:
We'll make it may not be meta, but comes pretty darn close. It is not just my opinion either, I am going to explain why it is logically the most underrated survivor perk and compare it to other underrated perks.
So for anyone who doesn't know, "We'll make it" is a survivor perk that is not a teachable, meaning it can be found in any bloodweb regardless of level, and it activates when you save someone from a hook (not a cage of atonement). It then increases your healing speed by 100% for a full minute and a half at tier 3.
A minute and a half of having double healing speed is great, it is amazing. If you happen to stumble upon a teammate who is injured, you can heal them in 8 seconds.
It also counters sloppy butcher and is just great when needing to reset your team. Does baby dweet keep taking unnecessary hits? Well, just run this perk and immediately he will be back to healthy in only 8 seconds.
If two survivors or somehow everyone brings this perk, the killer will have a very hard time trying to keep up. Adding WGLF with this also is insane for healing your teammates while slugged. Seriously, it is almost broken how fast these perks heal survivors when in use.
It also has great synergy with empathy and aftercare. You can easily find your teammates and keep tabs on them after healing them up with WMI.
The only reason this perk is a 4/5 is because it only activates after unhooking a survivor, but that should not take away from its utility very much.
Now there are other good underrated perks such as detective's hunch and alert, but I think that WMI is better. WMI is better because it lasts a long time and relieves pressure off of the survivor team quickly. I guarantee you that a killer going against a full squad of WMI users will be in for hell of a ride. Spending much less time healing is very good for survivors because they can make chases last a lot longer.
We'll make it is my favorite perk in the entire game. The issue with that perk is that most killers DO NOT want you survivor teams ever recovery from 4 injury->healthy situation. It makes their chases twice as long from hold W simulator and despite healing being extremely fast, you will pressed to not get interrupted. Its also one of those perks that requires to fish for safe unhooks at correct points in the match which proves to be very difficult for hook-defensive killers. Another trap for people that use we'll make it is that as teammates get hooked, they often feel the need to get EVERY safe unhook because they feel the need to use this perk repetitively. yeah, do not do that, you're team is likely to get no generators done. Its best to use the perk when your team is falling apart at critical moments. Other times you want to use it to stabilize the team and prevent the team from falling apart.
I'd say main benefits of running the perk is to counter sloppy butcher and avoid your teammates from self-caring for 32-40 seconds which is a lot of lost gen time. If everyone ran we'll make it instead of self-care, killers would probably be complaining that healing too fast.
Is the perk * 5 perk? The answer is no but it sure turns your dumb teammates in solo-queue from *1 to *3.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2086767#Comment_2086767
There are definitely a HUGE amount of players that don’t know how to anti loop with Clown properly.
When I play survivor I can only recall one Clown that was actually good, and 4K the team. The rest just spam bottles thoughtlessly and reload at the WORST times possible.
Tonight, apart from 1 bad game, i’ve had nothing but back to back 4k’s against rank 1 and rank 2 survivors. And my build is Agitation, Coulrophobia, Forced Penance, Sloppy Butcher, Party Bottles, and Starling Feather.
Clown is far from terrible. Once learned, survivors go down quick. They cannot escape.
I think survivors go down quickly in general when they're bad at looping regardless of the killer. I escape clowns just fine. Its just another OP post that struggles with clown. Not surprised really at this point. I'll say clown is good when I start losing to him.
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@ClownIsUnderrated said:
So you're gonna tell me Clown who has the power to shutdown looping is worst than the Trickster who has to use eight blades in order to injure you, and can't even use his power at places with high structures. Also compared to Michael, Clown doesn't need to worry early on having to waste time stalking someone to get his power. Trickster is a 110% killer with pretty much no power, while Clown is a 115% killer who makes looping impossible. Also if you're having trouble trying to aim with Clown, charge your bottle and wait for it to shine so it can go farther because trust me it's great with the antidote.
I don't know, I have a fine time looping clowns. I rarely go against clown. Its clearly not impossible. i hope clown gets one small tweak to his yellow bottle delay. It reminds me when clown slowed himself when throwing purple bottles. Myers, Trickster and Clown are all very bottom of the barrel.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2086235#Comment_2086235
"but I think that the best tricksters will master his recoil which is a big part of his skill-cap in my opinion."
Maybe on PC, but on console his recoil is practically impossible to compensate for, because joysticks simply aren't that responsive. If you start trying to adjust for his recoil, you very easily overcompensate and just start throwing knives in random directions.
I do not play on console, but I have heard that high sensitivity demanding characters such as Nurse, Huntress, Blight etc. are difficult to play on console. Trickster has 60 knives so it is not like there is no margins for error on aiming with his power, even PC killers will miss from time to time, but those that main him like one trick/master him will be deadly. It just means that console will have lower mastery ceiling than PC. I assume its already like that for blight and others.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2084666#Comment_2084666
True, good point. However, if you make his power do something more lethal, eg less blades to get injuries/downs, you end up making his power too boring to vs as survivor. There needs to be a fine-tuning between both roles consideration. Making him 4.6 with the other additional changes I suggested is thinking of that fine tuning between both roles. It would not only make him less frustrating and not a push over, while also keeping survivors interested in vsing him. I would hate for him to be another Plague/Myers type style where his power is dull to vs most of the time.
He needs to be interactive, at least semi-threatening, and fun to play as and vs. I'm bias to my ideas, but I feel the suggestions I made would achieve that
From playing against him 5 times in total, 4 of the 5 times were in the PTB, When trickster raises his knives, he always raises his left knife first, so he has pattern like the following left-right-left-right-left-right, so what I figured out is that you can move right-left-right-left and make a lot of his knives miss but he can also switch pattern by throwing his left knives far right so now you need change your movement rhyme. I think his recoil mechanic is meant to be utilized for survivor to make dodging easier but I think that the best tricksters will master his recoil which is a big part of his skill-cap in my opinion.
Of course, all of this is completely meaningless right now because his power is so weak that you do not even need to learn how to play against his power. the power takes so many hits to down and his knife throwing movement speed is so slow that you can on purpose tank 5-6 hits of knives, slow him down than just use LOS(Line of Sight) and as long he does not hit you within next 15 seconds, all those stacks just disappear. Looping tightly around tall loops completely obliterates his main event and he has almost no control over main event. so until a large majority of his negatives are removed like laceration delay and perhaps rework on both his trash iri's and all add-on associated with that mechanic, he'll be pretty bad. Probably most famous for being a deranking killer. I do not see him as powerhouse any time soon as he is so far away from his ideal spot at the moment.
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I thought Almo on his stream said he needed month and half to figure out if he needed changes. that was a fast month and half.
On serious note. I really hope they improve his throwing mode base movement speed and remove slowdown for throwing multiple knives. It makes trickster feel like he is walking in quicksand.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2082806#Comment_2082806
Just because there's a mold that is used for a select grouping of attributes, doesn't mean it should apply to every killer of that power style. Huntress and Deathslinger are 4.4 because their powers are lethal from long range, Trickster doesn't have that level of threat with his power, therefore he shouldn't be grouped to their attributes.
he is currently not dangerous because he is badly balanced. increases his movement speed from 4.4 to 4.6 is dodging the problem which is that his power is under-performing. The power should be strengthened until it is dangerous enough to warrant 110% just like other 2 ranged killers.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2081382#Comment_2081382
I'd only make Ricochet base-kit if he stays 4.4m/s.
You have to realise though, Injuring a survivor with your blades grants zero cooldown in regaining the ground on the survivor. No other killer can do that. So to make him quicker alone would be miles better and he'd at least feel somewhat more enjoyable because survivors wouldn't be able to loop the shortest object 3 times before you even gain ground on them lol
He is meant to balanced as 4.4. All ranged killers that have reliable ranged attacks are 4.4. 4.6 is lazy fix to a bad power. my responce to recoil is get better at aiming. Iri photocard nerf is strange. throwing speed mode for trickster is 92%. you can't be 4.0 (100%) from throwing knives. that is faster than being initial throwing mode movement speed. Maybe you mean increase base throwing mode movement speed to 100%?
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2079249#Comment_2079249
A. Prove Thyself saves 6 seconds not 7 with two people.
B. At high ranks, grouping up on gens is a liability until the end of the game with the final gen and maybe the penultimate one.
C. Good Killers at Red Ranks usually get a decent amount of hooks unless they’re slugging with Infectious or something, which only happens maybe 1 in 15 games or so (I’m Rank 1 and play SWF a lot. I have a lot of experience with good Killers). The real skill is evenly distributing the hooks so the Killer can’t get an early kill.
My bad, I forgot that its 40.92 instead of 40 since the 10->15% change. Still, the fact that prove thyself can be used multiple times means it can hold more average value in a match.
I do not agree with point B. A lot of the games of survivor are decided by which generator you complete based on the chase time that either you or your teammate produce in a given a match. I think this is common survivor myth that doing generator is about speed which is not true. It is about whether you get interrupt or not. I still think prove thyself is massively under utilized and I believe that it is 3rd best survivor perk in the game.
I have 3 reasons why I believe this:
1) It reduces the survivor's requirement to loop to complete a generator & is excellent catalyst for producing bad early games for killer.
2) It allows survivors to push critical generators that either dangerous by nature of their position or generators that killer often attempt to use for 3 generator strategies.
3) It allows you to break 3 gens more easily if they manifest in the game.
Just to add little bit more to my first point, killers are often forced to hook survivors but what a lot survivors fail realize that hooking survivors is very time consuming. For example, if you have 25 second chase and killer takes 2 second pick a up survivor and they are unlucky to get a far hook, it can take up 10 seconds for killer to hook that survivor. if you add this up, it takes 37 seconds for them to complete their objective in this instance. There is a lot of cases for survivor where a generator is like 80% complete but the survivor who was getting chased went down 10 seconds too early and sometimes, these 6 seconds are difference between the killer getting the hook and pop goes weaseling a generator and a survivor completing the generator. I have feeling that dev know this perk super powerful because it just so happens that it has similar artwork to killer perk BBQ, So I imagine that Prove thyself is BBQ equivalent for survivor unlike popular belief of We're gonna live forever.
I disagree point C) as well. Survivors have all pallet resources in the world and large majority of them are insanely safe beyond belief against M1 killers. One of the reasons why I love Michael Myers as killer is because he is ultimate ######### test for survivors. Good survivors are able to beat Myers 10/10 times because they're good at looping m1 killers and Myer is ultimate M1 killer. Most players that play survivor are terrible at looping which is why they struggle to beat the most basic killers and fail to demolish most of the killer cast with ease.
Weak killers are not suppose to many hooks, no matter how skilled they are. Good survivors will not allow it, They make way too few loop errors for anything less than 3 gen loss start on a first chase and loops too favorable for survivor. Its not to say that survivors are meant to be flawless at loops, they will make some mistakes and end up getting hooked but not very much. Less than 6 hooks should global average in current balance of DBD for high-MMR for survivor-play and anything more than that is just bad survivor looping mixed with bad gen efficiency.
I do dream of DBD that is more balanced for all killers at high-level but its not there yet.
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@gatsby said:
A Commodious Toolbox saves 10.7 seconds of repair time, which is the most of any of the toolboxes.
Fast Track saves 12 seconds of repair time with five teammate hooks, which is the realistic average amount of value you will get from it during a match, even though its technically possible to get nine teammate hooks and save 21.6 seconds.
So yeah, Fast Track might seem sort of underpowered or overpowered depending on how you felt when you first read the perk description. But its mostly just trading a perk slot for a free commodious toolbox, which is pretty good but balanced in my eyes.
Its trash perk. a single co-op of a generator from prove thyself saves 7 seconds. a 3 man generator saves 9 seconds, it alone already beats Fast Track on single generator and it can be used multiple times. Also in my opinion, survivors that let killers get more than <5 hooks are bad considering the game lasts about 5-6 minutes at red ranks.
Most of the killers that I face if i have even a semi-competent solo-queue team lose in <6 hooks unless they're playing absolute best killers. The only time this is not the case is when some dude decides that he hates X killer(I.E Spirit) and disconnects early. those games are either over instantly from chain disconnects or are black pip survivor games.
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@Imjesus101 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2076293#Comment_2076293
Bloodrush is meant to be used with stbfl so that you can catch up within a few seconds after a hit, the gen speed is to give this perk some risk/reward because if you don't make use of that speed and down the survivor quickly you will be punished, I honestly thing 5% is really not a lot of gen speed but they can definitely make some changes.
Edit: The whole point of corrupted perks is to give the killer a risk/reward factor. If they use and play around the perk well, they get rewarded but if they play like normally they get punished severely. And if survivors know about the perk they can use that information to their advantage, like for Bloodrush they would have every survivor working on generators when that specific survivor is in chase. Or for No stopping now they would be forced to try and conserve pallets for as long as possible instead of playing it safe and just throwing them carelessly (especially on maps like The game where there is a plethora of safe pallets)
they tried this once but it was with a survivor perk. Its bad idea. They tried this with self-care.
One of experimental versions of self-care was you can heal yourself, but all healing action are reduced by 25% instead of 50% when self-caring. the result was that everyone needed to run self-care because everyone else who was running self-care was 25% worse at healing you and in order to heal, you needed self-care for yourself.
general problem with these type of perks is either
A) the perk benefit need outweigh negative so much that negative aspect is irrelevant
B) The negative benefit has little to no effect on gameplay that the player only reaps its rewards.
What do these perks sound like? They sound like Hex perks and Obsession perks. Hex:Ruin has massive negative that survivors are able to disable the perk easily by removing a single lit totem that is fairly easy to find after enough playtime and yet. the meta of killer is pop goes weasel+Hex:Ruin, The reward hex:ruin is just so high for it staying up that benefit outweighs negative. Every other hex perk that is not Hex:Ruin has too much risk for not enough reward.
SBTFL is example of perk B. Its negative for losing stacks on hitting obsession has very little impact of its effectiveness and the perk with smart killer play only reaps its rewards. Every other obsession perk e.g.. Furtive chase, Remember Me has similar risks of needing to find/avoid obsession but the rewards are garbage, so nobody uses them.
So whenever BVHR releases new hex perks or obsession perks, The reason nobody even talks about them anymore is because the risk these perks is insanely high for failure and reward is completely non-existent.
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@nursewannabe said:
You don't need to buff single killers directly to make them stronger what you can do is nerf the opposing side.
Are you going to ignore all the map reworks that made most of them full of deadzomes (except maybe the game only?), the removal of infinites, or just blankly the ds nerf that finally arrived?
Blight is one of the strongest killers out there, and one doesn't need exploits to make him stronger. I just hope this bullshit will be fixed soon so people will shut the ######### up about it
which one? none of the reworks changed anything. Badham is still badham. It has many god pallets, many safe pallets and around 4 or so unsafe pallets. Ormond lost few jungle gyms but is still strong. The MacMillan Estate is still same, It got few breakable walls that create god loops, so slight buff. "The game" got few more god pallets, so straight buff. Crotus asylum added breakable walls to remove god windows in main building. Both Father chapel and Crotus are fairly unchanged. Azeroth maps are largely the same as well. Lery became bigger, added some more pallets. slightly less of a maze, so it got buffed for survivor a bit.
Nobody ignoring, they just have not changed much beyond replace windows with predrop pallets(breakable walls). those maps remain a problem until they start balancing actual tilesets with pallets such as jungle gyms, long-wall-short wall, fun bus, house of pain, cow loop, shack etc.
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I think they should just increase angle of lunge by a little bit and remove the exploit. you shouldn't need 4000+ DPI macro to hit survivors that hide near a rock. I think Scottjund is missing the point that these objects are often connected to a loop after you go in fatique. It is basic reason why Blight is not top-tier. If blight could hit survivors from every angle with correct bounces, He would be top-tier. The 3rd best killer in the game.
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@TAG said:
Did you make him work, or is the average DBD player just not good?
No i use same build on him. Monitor +STBFL is only way to play him. If discordance is not on, you should commit to chases, If discordance procs and your in a bad loop, you can make the decision to break off chase. I like using sloppy over meta pop goes weasel+corrupt/ruin perk, I just dislike kicking generators in general and whole 3 gen strat gameplay those perks encourage.
He is still weak even with good perks. I find it hilarious that survivors are losing to 110% m1 killer.
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Its called census tier-list. Its tier-list based off popular vote instead of single individual experience. Guess a lot of players are not successful with him. Figured as much. I find him really fun to play. Shame he is not rewarding. I guess we'll wait on Almo in 2 months for changes.
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@TheBus4K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073749#Comment_2073749
So if I understood your comment correctly, currently regression only works when you have 3 gens together? And how exactly does that work? Because if I put a gen in regression, they are going to put it in another generator, and if I put that other generator in regression, they will try to repair another, and taking into account that the regression speed is a joke and the repair speed, in comparison, it is much higher, there will come a time that they will be able to repair one of the generators, especially if you are a killer with low mobility.
Whether the regression is to hold three generators or simply to reduce the progression of random generators, its current state is abnormally low, and I don't think it works in any case, simply it doesn't apply any type of pressure.
Its not suppose apply any pressure. Pressure is putting survivors on hooks and getting survivors onto their 3rd hook state. you cannot do generators if your dead.
@dezzmont said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2073749#Comment_2073749
I agree with all of this, but I still think the fundemental chase/gen math is off.
We REALLY don't want 'sustained' regression to be strong in the basekit, because then tri-gens would be comical, but I can't help but feel like maybe there should be a 'basekit pop' that can be banked up, with the perk upgrading it, to reward killers for winning chases more with anti-tempo.
Fundamental chase time/gen time is off because of safe loop design. The fact that over 60% of the pallets when dropped by the survivor are forced breaks when survivor properly plays them and sheer abundance of them is what make chases last so long. You could argue that killers power are suppose give killers an unfair advantage to mitigate these problems, You can see how this goes very wrong with killers when they are poorly balanced such as Current Trickster, so while Killers like Spirit have a fair game, other killers with lesser effective powers struggle. Luckily, few survivors are able to utilize loops effective so the problem is not often showcased very much or at all.
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Base regression is the way it is to prevent killers from taking the game hostage in 3 gen situations. Survivors should always be faster at progressing the objective than the killer is at regressing it as long as all of the team is alive.
Killers are suppose to gain pressure by downing survivors quickly. Not by regressing the objective indefinitely. The perks that regress generator by large amount have heavy restrictions such as Pop(11max total hooks) and Hex:ruin being a hex. Maybe they'll release a perk like pop goes weasel that works off hooks with functionality to increase base passive regression speed on the next gen(s) regressed but it should not be default.
far too much chance for holding game hostage otherwise.
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@Reinami said:
High MMR will only have nurse and spirit as they are the truly the only viable killers at high level play. Either this will kill the game, or save it.
If the devs ignore the data and don't finally fix this ######### game, then it will kill the game. All the survivors in high MMR will get tired of playing against the same 2 killers over and over again and will start to quit, then the killers will quit, then it will blow up and be bad publicity.
If the devs look at the data and use it to fix the game, then it will actually save this game.
I mean, they do look at the data, They look at the data and go like "Freddy is best killer in the game". Its why the game is balanced the way it is. MMR will not change too much. It will improve survivor queues as you will get teammates of equal skill-level and it will make killers have tougher matches as they will face opponent of equal/higher skill level on average assuming that the system can understand what good and bad survivor skill-level is.
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The video is wrong, they change killers based off stats. so they changed nurse because her stats were high which did not take a genus to figure out with 5 blinks/omega blink. They will change trickster when they find out his stats are abysmal 2 months later. Its how BVHR works. I do not agree with balancing by stats but that is just direction they choose to go.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2069085#Comment_2069085
Your reading comprehension is failing again. Not once did I ever say 110% was good. Nowhere in my post did I even mention it. In fact I even said "all of your other points are good".
It is possible to isolate different elements of something and address them individually.
I am reading your post as "This add-on is good, Needs no changes" and I am explaining that this add-on is not good and does need changes if it is to be used. My proposed change allows add-on to deny dead hard and sprint bursts from health states without making the power worse.
I could easily come up with better add-ons than what they create. All these laceration decay add-ons have no creativity and exclusively filler add-ons. They could easily be replaced with add-on that reduce fatigue duration after main event or add-on that make charging main event faster.
Heck I would even consider working at Bvhr studio, too bad Cov-19 would make very difficult to get in at this time.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2068989#Comment_2068989
But when you injure a survivor:
- They get a sprint burst (which Trickster can't catch up to)
- They can use perks like Dead Hard, It's not Happening, etc.
This negates all of that.
Like I said, you're playing M1 anyway because Trickster's power sucks. You can't reliably down someone with knives, And doing so would take 16 knives in total. This only requires 8 knives in total (you don't need to worry about laceration drop off after those first 8) and one M1.
It requires a certain strategy to pull off, but the very fact that you disable their sprint burst and dead hard is a huge bonus. That sprint burst when injuring, and any additional distance gained from Dead Hard, are both massive blows to the Trickster.
Sure, it's no Iridescent Head, but then what is?
I will never agree that a 110% M1 killer with or without instant down is good or even remotely strong. I thought this was common knowledge that 110% M1 is bad. I was wrong...
I have no trouble hitting knives accurately when given opportunity to fire, a lot of players complain about recoil but you can easily move your mouse down to control recoil as you fire. I think recoil problem is console issue, they often get affected by recoil more severely and other aim intensive mechanics like Huntress, Nurse etc. you can reliably down people with knives, It is just not very rewarding.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2067407#Comment_2067407
...did you read my post? Or did you mean to quote someone else?
I'm saying that this "one thing" isn't as bad as you claimed. That doesn't mean everything else about him is great.
It makes knives unable to down you which taking away is only strength of being able to down survivors at loops in which you can throw over. granted it take twice as long as Deathslinger and Huntress but at least it works. I used this add-on in PTB, It makes you a 110% m1 killer with instant down. 110% m1 killers are.... really bad at loops regardless of instant down. I have no clue why you believe this add-on is good. Easily one of the top 5 worst Iri add-ons for killer.
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@Seraphor said:
His Iridescent Photocard is actually a pretty neat buff.
The Exposed status from this lasts a LONG time. I think it's until ALL lacerations have dropped off. You might not be able to down with it, but the Exposed from this is better than an injury. It doesn't give them a sprint boost, it negates Dead Hard and any other injury procced perks.
You're likely playing him as a M1 anyway because his knives are so unreliable, so why not capitalise on it? Chase them and try to Expose them while you can, then come in for the M1 knockout without any risk of Dead Hard or letting them get an injury sprint.
It's probably not quite good enough for a Pink add-on, but it's definitely a net gain.
The rest are all very good points though.
I am not sure how being 110% M1 killer is suppose to be good. At best case scenerio, this is like 110% movement speed ghostface that needs to land knives instead of stalk. that is atrocious.
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@Danoobiel said:
Yeah, the iri addons are pretty bad.
No clue what they were thinking with those.
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@Irisora said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061717#Comment_2061717
You must be the only person in the world that would say that lol. The Trickster is bad and a failure as a killer, he's just all looks and lacks real power.
Go and play him all day and you will see. Oh nevermind... you don't play killer. My bad.
Maybe he just struggles playing survivor. Trickster escaping the trickster might be too hard for him. Lost cause.
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@HealsBadMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061349#Comment_2061349
I don't think you understood my comment.
Skill floor refers to how hard it is to use- how hard is it to throw knives?
Skill ceiling refers to how good the best players are- what can the best Trickster do? More specifically, what can the best Trickster do better than any other Killer with a similar amount of skill?
Show a player that 100% hits every single deathslinger harpoon. you will not find one. How hard is it to throw knives and be very accurate? Pretty hard. Pretty sure most of playerbase will not be able to play Trickster. He has high skill-floor as well, he moves at 110% so you cannot not throw knives and play as M1, you need to be good at using his power to play trickster well. so yeah, high skill floor, high skill-ceiling. Bare in mind, this does not attribute to how effective/strong a killer is. The killer can be extremely hard to play and be very unrewarding even when played perfectly.
Skill refers to what an individual is able to do mechanically compare to another human being. Keyword: Mechanically, NOT KNOWLEDGE
Knowledge is not skill, I can know every single card in Yugioh but not know how to play Yugioh or card games.
Floor and Cieling refers to lowest limit to play a killer well(the word well depends on individual and is completely subjective)
Cieling refers to highest limit needed to play a killer well(This is not subjective).
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@HealsBadMan said:
Easy refers to his skill floor- how hard it is to learn how to use his power most effectively.
What the devs made FUBAR was his skill ceiling- the most you can do with his power once you have 'mastered' him.
This killer is NOT easy at all. this guy has an insane skill-floor and skill-cieling. The dev got no clue what the heck is hard or easy. All skillshot oriented killers nearly always the hardest to master and play. To give you a clue, they say MYERS is hard. Wow, Staring at survivors is so hard. they rate Ghostface as hard, Blight as hard when he is at best intermediate. Freddy is apparently hard....
Trickster is very difficult, the tag easy is completely wrong. If everyone was good at trickster, every person that picks up CSGO would instantly be Global Elite rank in CSGO with expert tracking skills.
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I have 5 killstreak, my previous one was at 6 but I lost it to due to stupid key hatch escape. Man, keys suck so much. You cannot make Tiers on day 1 playing the killer. Even though I am 4king every single game with him. I still think he needs many buffs and improvements. Tiers are made after 4 weeks of consistent gameplay with the killer. I find him to be extremely hard to play. He has an insane skill-cap. I love his skill-cieling.
I just feel that If i am working so hard to get 4k streaks in a row, I have feeling that other players are not even able to play him. This is just my intuition. I could be wrong though.......
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@gibblywibblywoo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2060246#Comment_2060246
that main event is so laughable, activates (on its own) and they run behind something, so you cancel it and get slowed...
Main event was worse in PTB, In PTB, you could not cancel it, so you could loop a rock and he was forced to stay in it. Trickster is weakest killer in history of DBD. He is like perfect April fools joke by the devs. So many variables need changing for him, so much so that he almost needs rework for how many changes he needs.
- Knife damage is too low, takes too many hits to down.
- He spends too long in throwing form because it takes so many knives to down.
- He has to use main event or lose it. Fomo - the idea of missing out on something
- Every blade that is not the 8th blade has no impact - Sunken cost fallacy
Until all those problems are solved, he will remain a joke. If I had to make a changes to improve him. I'd do following
- Reduce blade count from 8->6 needed to injure
- Increase his movement speed from 92% in throw mode to 105% and remove slowdown from throwing knives consecutively
- Remove the timer for activating main event. Main event can be activated by pressing secondary power when fully charged.
- Remove Laceration decay timer, Laceration reduction on M1 and Laceration reset on other survivors when hooking a survivor.
that is just scratching surface of his problems. He also has some joke add-ons, like his irisdecent Photo Card makes his knifes unable to down you and turns you into a 110% Instant down killer. Like do they not know that M1 killers are a joke? 110% even more so.
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I think they genuinely believe he is like S-tier strong, that is why they nerfed him after PTB by giving a cooldown after main event... and weakening add-ons... but please improve in relevant way. Playing Trickster is morally depressing right now.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2055624#Comment_2055624
There is not only SWF teams you know? Buffing all killers will make game imposible for solo survivors. You really thinking that will solve all problems?
No, It will just make survivor take more skill against the buffed M1 killers.
MMR will not change very much. Suppose MMR has goes from 0 to 100 where 0 is lowest and 100 is highest. All that MMR will do is prevent you from facing low MMR survivors/killers compare to yourself. Survivors that play the game well will have high MMR and those that do not will be low MMR. They'll still face every killer. Its just that weaker killers will never hit highest MMR because they will hit a skill-floor. Like for example, suppose your best Legion player in the world, your at 60 MMR, you beat 5 teams, the MMR goes up to 80. Now you start face 80-100 MMR teams, Suddenly you start face people that extremely good at looping M1 killers, much faster gen efficiency etc.. Suddenly you killer cannot keep up so you lose next 5 games and you will keep going 60 to 80 like seesaw up and down because your killer does not allow you to go past a certain point. Higher tier killers like Nurse will be top MMR and will stay there if they are skilled enough at that killer.
Moral of the story, High MMR survivors will still face weaker killers and decimate them because MMR will over judge their skill from facing bad survivors. From system stand-point, they are not "skilled" enough to play vs that level. From player stand-point, their killer is too weak to compete. The only time you will not be matched of equal skill-level is if there is imbalance of killer to survivor player ratio than it is possible for like 10 MMR survivor to face 50 MMR one for example.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2054293#Comment_2054293
Yeah i did as well but i have changed it a lot since then so i decided to post this current version which i think is the best it can get.
As for that idea i think info is good but i don't think it would help him enough as he needs stalling more so than info, not bad tho but i think the same thing can be done with just bbq which is very common on him.
I mean, the reason why he isn't stopping generators is because the yellow bottle is not impactful enough and his chases are still too long vs good players. When his yellow bottle becomes good and he starts to end chases quickly enough, He will not need that ability. I still think his yellow bottle should have instant activation time like purple bottle then his chase potential will be strong enough to challenge gens if he uses them at the correct time.
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@DawnMad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053227#Comment_2053227
Don't get me wrong, I don't think the perk would be overpowered on its own with this change. We would have to test it to see it. But an effect like this needs many restrictions because of how easy they are to synergize. If this perk was meta on its own, it would be game breaking with other perks like MYC, Dragon's Grip, NOED etc. Or combining it with the lunge of Spirit/Nurse/Wraith/Myers etc. Think of Save The Best for Last, it has a nearly as strong of a mid-late game effect with the drawback of not being able to hit a survivor the whole game to keep it.
Also this would do a similar thing with Dead Hard where the killer can get easy hits in places he made a mistake and should not, I don't think that's good design. Lastly, with a change like this we would not get any other perk to increase lunge distance or combining these could get broken very easily, but we still probably won't, I just thought I should mention this.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053228#Comment_2053228
I also don't think nerfing Dead Hard will suddenly make the game balanced, but I still don't find it very fair. This needs its own post though, here isn't the place to discuss it.
Have you ever wondered why STBFL has strong mid-late game effect? I wonder what killer mechanic in the game removes Sprint burst on healthy survivors.... ahhh that's right... exposed! STBFL scales the effectiveness of sprint burst by reducing recovery speed of killers. Its gradation of the exposed status effect. Most perks that are meta are strong as stand-alone and often these perks fix a particular problem in the game. So its no surprise that Coup the grace could be a very impactful perk.
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@DawnMad said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053210#Comment_2053210
To be clear, I'm on the side of Dead Hard getting nerfed. A killer can do the mindgame of the century and you can erase all of that with the click of a button, it's not a fair perk. But this thread isn't about it.
Also it is pretty scummy that you are defending this Coup De Grace change with the existence of Dead Hard. From this comment you obviously also find it an unfair perk and your solution is to add an unfair perk to the killers too? Why not instead try to make the game better for both sides and everyone will be happy.
I got no problems greeding every loop with Dead hard. If you get a big enough ego with some of developer's loop designs, you'll eventually start T-bag every game at the exit gate.
Weakening dead hard will not fix safe loop design. Looping will still be strong with or without existence of Dead hard.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2053078#Comment_2053078
defiantly don't remove the token system if it was unlimited it would be op, they could do as the name suggest and increase your lunge,when chasing an injured survivor
So then it only allows you to mindgame the loop half the time instead of all the time? Is it really far fetched for killers to be able to mindgame every loop with skill? Killers like Legion would be able to have the perk permanently active with injure condition. Is M1 legion suddenly unfair?
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@ALostPuppy said:
Not a fan of this. Permanently increasing something like lunge distance, movement speed etc would be really bad imo. Good survivor play when in a chase is the ability to judge how far a killer is from a pallet, will a lunge connect through the pallet or can they run and get another loop out of it and be rewarded in that way etc.
This would just throw all that out the window, and judging distance from the killer when going for window vaults etc would be much harder to the point where it wouldn't be worth actually playing the game well so they'll resort to dropping pallets early and holding W, the pinnacle of interactive survivor gameplay.
but survivors do that anyway while greeding every single loop to the max to maximize the waste time from the killer.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2051564#Comment_2051564
It literally gives the killer a lot of extra distance that's... Well, it's pretty much only good for punishing a survivor for trying to loop. The only reason it's not absolutely despised is because it can only have a maximum of 5 tokens which you get for letting the survivors do their objective. Which is bad. And this means that, even though a good killer can make every stack count, it's just not worth it.
But if it was easier to get stacks, Coup would be run more. And more and more survivors would realise that perks that directly mess with chases is a pretty big deal and honestly isn't fun.
The perk makes every loop nearly in the game have a mindgame and turns every loop into unsafe loop which one of biggest reasons why the game is extremely survivor sided at top-level because too many loops in the game lack mindgames when skilled survivors understand vantage points and have reactions to play the loops. Its why a large majority of killer player tend to break like 80% of the pallets when they've been dropped because its faster to break pallets than it is to play them.
Just give sample how this perk makes every non-god window/pallet unsafe. Suppose you are playing Cow loop on Coldwind farm, When you are near pallet and the survivor at the vault. they can medium vault on reaction and unless you double back very early, you will not be able to capitalize on their bad read even when you predict the vault because you lack the ability to reach them. they can medium vault back even on bad reads. Sometimes you can hit them because survivors are usually lazy and auto-pilot every loop in the game because of how safe they are, but after you do hit them, they'll pay attention and not pre-vault when your clearly out of range. With this perk, you will hit them. This logic would nearly apply to vast majority of safe loops.
If they just removed the whole token system and just made it increase lunge distance by flat amount(60%). I think it would be most meta killer chase perk and devs would not never need to balance loop design because you can just use this perk to make every loop unsafe. The only bad thing is that the perk also stacks with killer powers that have anti-loop and makes them stronger.
E.G You know how Nurse has average 60% winrate? Yeah that winrate is going to 75% because with this perk, you do not need blink as precisely from larger reach. Massively lowered skill-cap
Spirit Old lunge? Its back
Freddy snares increase his lunge speed from survivors slowing down, Freddy has even bigger lunge now.
Deathslinger? Yeah he can reel almost any shot with this.
All killers have now acquired a Dead-hard power-level perk. Skilled Killers would truly be scary in a 1vs1.
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@Blueberry said:
Really hope this extra time is giving him some significant buffs because this is looking like Twins 2.0.
I imagine it being bug-fixes. Normally they just release bugged chapter and than hotfix it later. I think the major change in chapter is literally the decisive strike change.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045918#Comment_2045918
because the 200 wins were against not very good survivors they were ######### I’m talking high level play 4 man death squads. In that match he hooked his first survivor at one Gen left he got his ass whooped. Twins are not good at high level play like nurse or spirit hell even Oni and blight
But they're balanced for 99%. They just don't work for very 1% because of its easy to heal, take victor hostage and spam lockers when Twins are 40 meter away from victor.
All they really need is ability to recall victor instantly, longer locker holding and mangled status effect upon hitting a pounce on victor so healing is not as easy, than Twins would be another Nurse/Spirit-level killer when using Toy Sword add-on+Forest stew potentially.
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@MadLordJack Its kinda what i mean, 1vs1'ing a survivor is poor map pressure, you need multiple people paralyzed at a consistent rate. Good killers do not rely on survivor's looping skills, they play their own game. Spirit does not play survivor's looping game. She plays her own Phase walk game and survivors need to play HER phase-walk game, Not the other way around. Nurse does not rely on it either, she plays the blink game. They can generate map pressure on their own accord and when they do, a vast majority of the survivor team is often paralyzed from doing gens. Map mobility is only good because perks like Ruin and Pop goes weasel generate gen pressure which becomes map pressure, but map mobility is not map pressure. If it was, Billy and Demogorgon would be triple S-tier.
Legion has map mobility, It does not mean he has good map pressure. Why? He has to play looping game. The looping game is god pallets. The looping game is holding W after pallet breaks. The looping game is safe loop design. safe pallet design. The looping game is safe window design with safe vantage points. What does all this stuff do? It wastes time. its poor map pressure. For m1 killers, they rely on survivor mistakes because killers can physically not hit them if the survivor rejects getting hit. For those killers to have good map pressure, they need to look at the foundation and look into making tilesets unsafe so that killers more opportunity to mindgame survivors which gives them more opportunity to get hits to generate map pressure. So when they rework all the maps and put breakable walls & remove god windows, map will still be imbalanced until they work on balancing actual tilesets like jungle gyms etc. and if you do not want to weaken tilesets, than you need to make killer powers super strong with really powerful perks to compensate imbalances in the game i.e More Stridor-Spirit killers. Buff Freddy etc.
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@TruEternity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2045789#Comment_2045789
It’s just the shape of the map, since it’s an I and has two distinct structures at either end of the map (shack and shop). The same concept applies to all maps, Azarov’s was just the map I used.
So let’s take cowshed, then. You hook a survivor by the barn, and start a chase with a survivor at slaughter tree. Then let’s say the other two survivors were at killer shack, one now has to leave and get the save, or the hooked player will lose a hook state. See, works the same, map doesn’t matter at all.
It doesn’t matter what map you’re on, creating pressure doesn’t change. How you position, and how difficult it is to get pressure is what’s affected by map/tile layout.
I agree with the post. Map pressure is not mobility. Map pressure is the ability to paralyze team members at once with killer. It is the ratio and uptime that survivors are allowed to work on generators. A great example of this is Oni. Oni at the start of the game finds one survivor, he is 1vs1'ing one survivor meaning his map pressure is 3 to 1. When Oni downs the survivor and put them on a hook and he finds another survivor, he is now 2 to 2. When survivor unhooks other survivor as another is getting chased and heals them, for 16 seconds, he is 1 to 3 and when the heal completes, it will revert to start of the game which is 3 to 1. When Oni activates his power and let say down 3 people with his power. When 3 people are slugged, he at 4 to 0. He has successfully paralyzed entire team therefore his map pressure is at his maximum until survivors pick themselves up. Map pressure is game-state. Bare in mind, survivors do not need to heal to push generator so just because your injured does not mean the killer has map pressure. Survivors decide that. Being injured just means everyone is globally exposed in the map which is either amazing or completely pointless depending how each side plays it.
How good a killer is at paralyzing the team how quickly they get hits. How quickly they get hits is depended on the killer ability to outplay survivors at loops. So when people say Spirit has good map pressure. What they mean is that spirit can get hits quickly because she can outplay survivors at the vast majority of loops in the game thus getting many downs in quick succession which translates into paralyzing the team from doing generators. When people say Clown or Deathslinger or say new Trickster killer will have poor map pressure, they mean that the killer is only capable of 1vs1'ing a single survivor at a time and their 1vs1 is very long producing high generator-uptime I.e, they're easy gen-rush. They just physically can't down survivors when jungle gym pallet is thrown etc. It just wastes their time. wasting time = fast gens.
As sad as it may sound, In order for killer to be strong, their ability has to be very reliable, have almost no weakness and be very quick at downing survivors. All this translates into having low interactivity for survivor which survivors refer as "Boring" or buzz words like "Lack of counter-play", "Unfun".
TL:DR Anti-loop is best map pressure for killer.
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A large reason why killers used Ruin+Undying+Tinkerer is because when you finish a gen up to 60 seconds and killer pushes you away. If the generator fully regresses, It is as if the survivor was AFK(Away from Keyboard/Not playing the game) so perks that slow the game down artificially empower the killer's map pressure. This is why they're used so much, so that 3 to 1 with Ruin is like 2:2 or even 1:3, So even when killers has bad pressure, Ruin, Pop goes weasel, Corrupt intervention makes the killers map pressure look "good" as those perks artificially drop survivor's generator up-time/reduce effectiveness of survivors gen pressure(a form of map pressure).
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@Yords said:
I'm sure any person who plays a healthy (maybe even an unhealthy) amount of Oni knows that there is one thing you can do that just completely screws him over. That weakness is delaying the first hit by playing really safe i.e dropping pallets early.
It can be pretty lame to go against as Oni because there is quite literally, NOTHING you can do but mindgame if you are even able to before they just run away.
It doesn't always happen, but it is definitely a problem because it just makes the Oni look like a joke.
But of course making it easier to get blood fury would buff the Oni when he is already strong enough most of the time. So, should it be fixed or just left alone?
If your having trouble landing firsts, run chase perks like bamboozle and brutal strength on him. I think his biggest problem is that it takes longer to get into his power than it does to spend his power. The reason is because his power only lasts 45 seconds, -7 second per down reducing its duration to 38 base and when you are in demon form, survivors do not drop blood orbs which increases his down-time.
If his power was 60 seconds and did not penalize him for downing survivors while survivors still drop blood orbs when he is in demon form, he would be contender for one strongest DBD killers. Survivors would complain that he is S-tier. The fact you need to use Lion Fang to make remotely playable slugger showcases his poor variable balance. I think its strongest add-on as well. I guess PTB Oni was too scary for survivor mains.
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@ClownIsUnderrated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041434#Comment_2041434
I'd say Clown was probably the hardest 50 win streak that Otz has done so far, and I'm very impressed as well. Can't wait to see the Wraith one, since it should be hopefully better for him with the Wraith buff coming next chapter. Although he'll have to do as best as he can with Wraith since he's just a M1 killer
Yeah he's one of worst killers. I think Wraith will be much easier. He is already done ghostface. Wraith is similar to him. They're very average. I think the hardest for him to try achieve will be Micheal Myers. Myers has really slow start and you can't even use his power properly without J.Myers Memorial, so I think what he will do is subtract one perk for the add-on. He's like trapper. Trickster will whole new level of hard as well.
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@CyperX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2037761#Comment_2037761
Damn that sucks !!! He wins either way in my book ..he fails and tries again...more views more $$
he got his 50 wins in a row after many failed attempts, he managed to triumph and outperform the activation delay of yellow bottles, though from watching his video, so many survivors do not drop pallets early vs clown. It allowed him to get so many hits. I wonder if he will be able to continue his streaks when MMR is finally implemented and killers start facing survivors of their own skill-level. That temple of purgation match will be every match for clown for high mmr. In the end, you still have to give him credit, winning with clown even in this random matchmaking is still an achievement that not many can brag about. I could feel pain in playing clown half of those matches.
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@Blueberry said:
I agree it needs buffs, it's pretty bad. That's saying a lot especially seeing as we're in a meta where you can literally guarantee everyone will be running an Exhaustion perk and it's still not worth running in its best scenario.
However I'd rather keep it focused on the injured survivors as that's supposed to be its niche.
First remove the cooldown. It's just flat out unnecessary. The perk already has its counter of healing and requirement of getting downs.
Second apply the Bloodhound effect to the Hemorrhage effect.
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Now the perk has counter play of healing and is only applying its effect if the killer is successfully getting consecutive downs while still maintaining map pressure (keeping people injured).
Now it's decent with a skill requirement.
I'd say lower cooldown to 60/50/40 from 80/70/60 and apply mangled instead of hemorrhage would help. current issue with the perk is that most of the killer are not able to apply injure pressure quickly enough so at most, only 2 survivors really end up getting exhausted if survivors actively heal. Legion and Plague which have good injure pressure have a weak m1 chase, so the exhaustion is last of their concerns.
With lower cooldown and applying mangled when injured, it could serve as non-basic attack variant of sloppy butcher when hooking when the other survivors are injured with exhaust bonus. The high cooldown is counter-productive to its goal of keeping survivors exhausted. I think the cooldown is there for tier 1-3 perk. I do not think they will remove that.
Its strange, I think i remember them saying something about changing blood echo, still no changes.
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@CyperX said:
OTZ is doin 50 kill without losing with clown
He failed at 43. If clown antidote was instant activation like his purple bottle was, I reckon he would already succeeding his 50 killstreak. I think antidote has potential to be strong. Its just not quite there.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2034989#Comment_2034989
...they cant...not at the top 1% dowsey used twins and got destroyed.
and any killer from the top 1% can tell you that only nurse and spirit are good against the top swf. Stop with your survivor bias and actually realize the problem with this game. If you need more proof watch the tourneys where any killer but nurse and spirit lose immediately.
Dowsey did do 200+ 4ks though with Twins. Its just that Twins as he explains have these really bad hard-counter that very hard to outplay as killer which are related to people kidnapping her power for 45 seconds, med-kits/fast healing and lockers. that game was inhouse so they knew they were going against Twins. Pretty sad that Twins can't compete even though it is pretty close. I doubt everyone will get to the highest MMR though.