Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@katoptris said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2144452#Comment_2144452
Everyone has their own way of playing him. As bubba I run brutal,fire up and enduring with STBFL.
Again, all the perks that make little sense. Brutal strength+fire up on the killer that has fastest pallet break in the game. STBFL is a perk that allows you to undermine the sprint burst from taking hits on healthy survivors to get quick 2nd hits but bubba has base-kit instant down. Instant downs already deny sprint bursts from healthy survivors so why do you need a perk for this? Bubba play at pallets already really strong, you can almost always avoid pallets stuns as killer, Enduring is a wasted perk slot.
there is no real alternative playstyle. most killers have 1 strength and single optimized way of playing them. There are some killers that have more than one playstyle, but that alternative playstyle is the result of an add-on. If you want to play "another" playstyle, just play another killer. there is 23 of them, so there is at least 23 other play-styles.
Leatherface is popular killer to face now a days, but I feel like not many people optimized his chainsaw usage to full extent. I was just curious for what goes on in peoples minds when they run some of these perks on these killers. I'd probably suggest for the OP to run BBQ+Bamboozle+Pop goes weasel+Tinkerer and to use award chili+beast marks. If you can't get these add-ons, yellow chili and primer bulb is decent.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2144410#Comment_2144410
The point of the 5% tokens isn't for chainsaw speed, it's for positioning right before starting the chainsaw. IE to catch them out of position and just generally map pressure for that matter.
why would you need positioning with leatherface's chainsaw. this is not billy. just rev from super far back, your increased speed will allow you to eventually catch up next to the survivor after you get 2nd/3rd charge. you need plan ahead as leatherface. not play in the moment. you should be able to look at a survivor from like 15 meter away and understand ahead of time whether you will catch up to the survivor or whether that survivor will make to the window. It reminds me of players who play legion and only feral frenzy when they're pointblank next to a survivor.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2144221#Comment_2144221
Yes but you're rarely getting over 1 stack anyway as that's consecutively getting you downs before they just sit there stacking.
you don't get it. if your at 1 stack and you use chainsaw on first charge, you lose your 5% boost. It consumes a token on chainsaw release and if your telling me that your charge 2-3 tokens with pwyf than using it, well you could lose all 3 tokens in a single rev.
I am just trying understand your leatherface logic for using this perk.
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@Blueberry said:
Curving around objects is all just practice and knowing the object hit boxes. It comes with time.
As for builds I run Nemesis, PWYF, Bamboozle, and Pop. I tell you this build is scary to see as a survivor against a Bubba. You end chases so fast. This build makes it so you never respect any pallet. If they greed it you get a free down with a chainsaw in the back and if they throw it you just break the pallet, get your free PWYF stack, and drop chase.
Now I don't run a tracking perk as I find it unnecessary as I can generally gauge survivor location simply through experience but I understand most people will want to run BBQ, Discordance, or whatever your tracking perk preference is. If I was dropping one I'd take the Bamboozle off.
You do realize that each token consumed removes a pwyf stack. Like suppose you have 3 tokens, if you use his chainsaw, it will go 2-1-0 in single chainsaw sprint. If your at PWYF stack 1 and you activate chainsaw, you will be at base speed. Unless your using his iri add-on(Carburetor tuning guide) to convert his chainsaw into 1 sprint, Nemesis+PWYF is not worth it. leatherface's iri add-on are terrible. they reduce your base movement speed in his chainsaw and remove control over when your chainsaw ends.
I have seen bubba run this as survivor and I do not understand logic, can you enlighten me?
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@GodLikeTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2143358#Comment_2143358
He does have a high difficulty, because the vast majority of people that attempt to play him don't even know how to run tiles with his knives, and when to get the knives into people. Also people don't know that he is meant to be played as a killer that excels in finding people out of position, and push them to weak tiles or into a bad spot. If someone is in a bad zone they won't have a chance. Also a lot of bad Tricksters run STBFL on him even though it's the biggest waste of a perk slot on him. He has an incredibly high skill cap, but is dragged down a bit by the fact that his recoil still exists when it shouldn't even be there in the first place. I've yet to play against a moderately decent Trickster. I play him on PC too. In fact if we go off actual stats I have 6.2k full laceration damage on him, and am #4 global with him. So I have sunk a lot of time into him a little too much infact. He's not an easy pickup, because there is very few people who actually know how to run tiles with him in the first place. If people did maybe we wouldn't be in the position where people call him a terrible killer when he isn't. I still think he needs at least to be put up to 115%, and he would be fine, but even then he still isn't an easy pick up, because most people just don't have the mechanical skill to even play him properly to begin with.
I completely agree with assessment. The fact of the matter though is that the killer IS BAD and overall WEAK. Despite his overall skill-cap being through roof, the rewards for using his power are not good and for average player, they will have absolutely miserable experience playing him. this is why you will continue to see forum posts like this one every day or even every week about him being a very underwhelming killer until they improve him.
people were using stbfl on him in early stages because they were trying to figure out the best perks for him. now a days, I never thought i'd say this, but i am using Iron maiden on him. m&a,Iron will maiden, ruin, pop goes weasel is what i use and he still struggles even with most meta gen slowdown perks. The fact you admit that you need "leave" loops with chasing-oriented power killer is testament to his power being too weak at high-wall loops. The reason why Huntress and Deathslinger work at these loops is because they inflict full health state of damage, so they need very short window of opportunity of line of sight on the survivor to potential land a hit. Trickster needs to land many knives and the slowdown that he has when holding a knife really hurts his ability to chase around those loops when survivors tightly loop the corners.
The idea of abandon chases for split injure pressure is detrimental with laceration mechanic. He is still the only killer that does not control his power-up ability in main event. All the other killers are able to fully control when they active their power except trickster.
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@Dennis_van_eijk said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/245602/trickster-should-be-115-and-heres-why
Tru3 had a hood buff to him while keeping him 110%.
I don't know exactly all the points but 2 of then are a survivor being hit by knives but not downed have to option to take out the knives or keep them in.
Every single knives has to taken out separately.
So they can choose to just do a gen but having the risk to (when they have for example 7 knives in them) to be downed quickly.
So high risk, high reward.
Also whenever a survivor is hooked the others with knives in them won't loose them like it is now.
Ok a think i remember 3 of them I think 😬
The other one is for his main event.
During main even you get 1 knives to throw.
But that 1 knives will take away 1 health state, or insta down a survivor, don't know exactly which of the 2.
But personally I have no issue with either one of them.
This will make him a lot stronger and more viable.
The issue with tru3 idea of takes out knives is what number do you set per each knife to be taken out. If you take a low number like 2.5 second per knife. with 6 knives, it would 15 seconds to mend. Legion used to take 15 seconds to mend, it takes 12 seconds now. With such short-time frame, Almost everyone will pull the knives out. If you take a ridiculous number like 10 seconds, 6 knives would be 60 seconds, nobody will pull knives out because it takes too long and if you take an average number like 5 seconds, than hitting 6 knives is 30 seconds. that is almost as long as self-care.
Sure, the survivors that run self-care might be fine with it, but I have feeling that many wouldn't like facing a literal mending-simulator killer. None of the other killers allow you to heal their damage so I am not sure why he should allow a healing of his damage.
main event being a huntress hatchet might be boring. you'd have to make it like the knife can't directly strike hit the survivor, but you need to bounce it off an object to land it, you know... like a trickster..... maybe it has like homing-type ability with like special sound effects. I'd say it would take a lot of work. I think current version is closer to encore ability. Its simpler but its not very flashy.
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@Phasmamain said:
His 1v1 potential is kinda insane. Sure it takes time to down someone but you’re guaranteed a down in an okay amount of time due to how many blades he has.
When does good huntress player ever miss all 5(8) hatchets and not get a down? All the killers will get down eventually if they chase long enough, often from bloodlust. His 1vs1 is average at best.
His issues is that wallblocker loops LOS him too hard and he does not get enough time to inflict health states because his throwing mode is still too slow m/s to be used in those loops. laceration mechanic is still just free anti hemorrhagic syringe for any survivor that he abandon chase/escapes the chase, so no split pressure and his main event still cannot be activated on command like Oni.
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@Bard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139315#Comment_2139315
Piss bottles aren't useless.
Clown moves at 5.06 m/s under the effects of a piss bottle, and the effect has a minimum duration of 5 seconds after you leave the cloud.
This means that over that 5 second duration, you close a distance of 5.3 meters, when you would normally only close 3 meters.
So, at base, you can secure yourself a bonus 2.3 meters per piss bottle.
By this metric, the a bottle of piss is actually slightly better than a tonic bottle. Those have a 2.5 second minimum duration, which I'll bump up to three since the survivor is gonna spend at least some time in the Cloud.
A slowed survivor moves at 3.4 m/s, meaning you close a distance of 3.6 meters over those three seconds, which is 1.8 meters more than normal.
So... yeah. Measured per-bottle, Piss is 27.78% more effective at closing distances. Now, they're worse when measured per second, but that's the trade off you make.
When you take into account how you can use both of these effects at once (Feather add-ons are just the best), it's great.
Also, piss bottles are MUCH better than tonic bottles for visual obstruction. VHS Porn seems like a meme add-on, but the yellow gas being nearly opaque makes it incredibly useful with that add-on.
I think when people say that, they mean that when you run flask of bleach+either15%, a slowed survivor moves at 3.2 m/s for 4 seconds, 1 second off from yellow bottle. The true strength of yellow bottle is being able to combine with purple bottle.
2 problems:
1) ammo 4 bottles.
2) speed is hard to time precisely.
In the end, rarity do not matter too much. Its more if the effect is fair or not. I think old intention for rarity was to make it that players grind endlessly their web to get a super powerful item to use. Suppose rarity of an ultra-rare item was like 0.001% and you need spend like 30 million bloodpoints to get like an add-on for flashlight and what it does is instantly blinds the killer. Maybe you get 1 of these add-on after a rank reset as a reward. Now a days, Ultra-rares might as well be "Common" and their power-level might as well be worse than a brown add-on for all intensive purposes.
A lot of them are that. An example? Oni has an add-on called Iridescent Family Crest, epic name, Its more useless than the perk called infectious fright. go figure.
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@Bard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139250#Comment_2139250
I like bing bong boi.
There's nothing wrong with anything that's there, it's just that he feels too simplified.
If he could tap into his uncloak haste more easily in chases, he'd probably be third or fourth.
that killer name is Spirit. Its hard to say difference between design and current power-level of what they could be. I mean I love ghostface's concept, Stealth+1 shot. Problem? Everyone breaks him out instantly and often the reward for stalking disappears from you having to M1 them from a failed stalk.
I like killers that are based off prediction rather than reaction. I'd say Spirit is my favorite designed killer. Pig probably being my least, rng mori's are not very fun.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2139065#Comment_2139065
I suppose I'm in the minority but I thought Ruin/Undying's previous iteration was a much healthier meta as survivors actually had a secondary objective and it slowed the game to the duration it should've been at base without having to use perks. Everyone's now back to ignoring totems as they're irrelevant. As you mentioned survivors can afford to make a lot of mistakes and still win. Killer gets about 1 hard mistake and it costs him the game.
The only bad part about it was that every killer had 2 perk slots and eventually would have 2 perks slots for entire game, though corrupt intervention is used almost every killer, so they're playing with 3 perks slots anyhow as corrupt is like survivor's old sabotage. It takes away from survivor objective(gens) similar to how old sabotage would take away hooks from the killer. I guess analogy is like if you took away the net in soccer from one team. Overall, the perk slows generators by about ~100 seconds and how impactful 100 seconds depends how long your match is. If your match suppose to be 6 minutes long, 100 seconds is like 1/3 of the game. if it takes 11 minutes to gens, than it is like 1/10th of the game which is not impactful. Its the perk that gives biggest bang for the perk slot.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2138295#Comment_2138295
I'd prefer if they balanced the game better to where it wasn't necessary.
They did balance it at one point. The survivors had this called a secondary objective and its name was Undying+Ruin. Survivors complained about it and so it got gutted.
Hopefully video showcases two very important points. The first is that deathslinger is nowhere near viable vs top-level, he has too many high pressure shot moments all of which if he misses are instant loss for him and his downs are simply too slow, just not enough reward for each shot. I've always wondered what would happen if hitting a harpoon shot would inflict 5% hindered effect instead of deep wound, Would it be more realistic for him to land every shot if his target was slightly slower to give him a chance to win. No clue really.
The other point is that game should showcases many moments for why you need drop the pallet when injured right away. There are many cases where you can shoot when a survivor drops a pallet during animation lock and hit you. Don't drop them when healthy as deathslinger can easily fire and break chain to injure you, in that sense, he's pseudo legion when your healthy. In the end, even with the chases being not as great as they could be, the survivor still triumphs which I have always said that survivors do not need to play perfectly to win. they can afford to 5-6 hooks states and still come out on top.
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@BananaBlooD95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2136876#Comment_2136876
He would have much better result but wouldn't he be too oppressive with his mobility, 1hit factor and fast way to deal with pallet?
Thing is Burrow Time doesn't give you enough distance if you're close enough with 3 stacks on Bubba. Make the survivor goes stage 2, wait for the rescuer get both of them or the guy on stage 2 to kill him. 3survivor with 2 gens left to do vs Bubba with a bunch of broken pallet then you can play relax for the rest of the match.
It's oppressive but it's the only way to reliably put pressure on survivor and if the survivor left are half decent and still have some decent pallet they can make me loop for long enough and get 1 or 2 person out.
I wish I could go for a 12hooks and have more fun but if survivor hammer gen and the first 2 survivor you find are half decent then you can either get an M1 or a bunch of pallet and I prefer getting a bunch of pallet.
I mean survivors said he said that old billy was oppressive, so he got changed.
I wish I could go on 12 hooks with Bubba as well, too bad for gen speed stuff. Its too bad Otz did not tell the bubba player to go for chases until he loses. From personal experience, The Bubba would lose at 6-8 hooks and 2-3 people would escape. you would see some very impressive chainsaw plays. Bubba is really fun to play when your good at him and absolute terrifying with award chili+beast marks. People say clown's strong in 1vs1 with short chases. wait they face bubba who knows his chainsaw inside out, than you'll see what short chases look like. He is like my 3rd most feared 1vs1 killer to go against. any slight misjudgement of distance will result in a swift death.
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@BananaBlooD95 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2136832#Comment_2136832
I Bubba get a hook between 3 gen then he pretty much win the game by camping. Sadly on big map that's what you have to do on many maps since you can't pressure gen that much.
Yep, I mentioned this long time ago that bubba facecamp gameplay when used smartly is very oppressive. If only there was this really good perk called borrow time that helped in this situation. Billy used to do this a lot with his chainsaw where he would use his mobility to rush unhooked players kinda how hag often puts like 10 traps around hooks. Billy got nerfed, Bubba got glorified. Its been like that for 1 year+, funny enough, All tier list still say "Billy A-tier" just like all tier will still say Freddy A-tier after his change goes through.
You will see that match would very different if Billy was allowed to use Tuned Carburetor and Mother Helper which used to be called Spark plug without pallet stun drawback or 110% drawback of Tuned Carburetor. Billy would had much better results.
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Billy in video never overheated. Overheat is not issue. Its inability to use double charge time add-on that makes him unviable vs good players. He's very anti-fun because you can't use your chainsaw to earn hits at loops.
The removal capacity for billy to mindgame loops with his chainsaw vs good players. The only time you'll get hits with current chainsaw if survivor are out of position or they over-greed loop and billy capitalizes on the mistake.
Bubba is fun because he can use his chainsaw at loops and outplay the survivor, hence he is better.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2134609#Comment_2134609
the difference is that Oni has a clear restriction to his movement during demon dash, while Victor has full controll.
those two are hardly, if at all, comparable.
Restrictions that good Oni Usurp with skill.
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@Kebek said:
As great of a killer new bubba is, a few matches are hardly enough to make a decent comparison, that much less one.
I mean Billy couldn't even win on his best maps that he hand selected. According to Otz tier-list on maps, Bubba was playing Gas heaven which is one of the S-tier survivor maps and Badham which is another S-tier survivor sided map where most killers would dream to get a single hook before 5 gens pop. Bubba also won chases a lot more convincingly where as Billy struggled in most chases.
Just maybe Billy being A-tier is a bit overrated and Bubba being B-tier is a bit underrated. Maybe their position should switch.
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@Mister_xD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2134447#Comment_2134447
Victor moves at a constant basespeed of 150% mms (equal to a sprintbursting Survivor) and has about the hitbox of a minivan when pouncing.
if a Victor misses, thats entirely up to the player playing him.
any good Twins player will be able to hit with Victor consistantly.
Oni in demon form moves at 195%. This is like saying an any good Oni will always down a survivor in demon form. oh and his power instant downs. I have looped Oni in demon form. Its super hard but it is doable to some extent. Victor is loopable and you can waste a lot of Twins time.
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Lucky break change is the first steps to nerfing spirit. Survivors will still complain she is braindead easy mode auto win. so they'll probably nerf her add-ons like mother daugher ring, father glasses and Dirty Uwabaki and than finally they'll gut her like they did with freddy and billy. Most likely reduced speed in phase walk, increased cooldown on ability and indications of where she is moving in/out of phase.
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@OopsAllHexes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2133832#Comment_2133832
Any gen pressure they apply is meaningless unless they sit there and camp the gen as Victor. Even if they succeed or miss a pounce, it doesn't matter, the Survivor will be right back on the gen in 10 seconds.
As for your nerfs:
- Absolutely unneeded, and Survivors will abuse the hell out of this. Why does this not JUST affect Twins, but Trapper and Hag? This is so unnecessary and hurts several Killers.
- It makes sense that you don't play Twins, given what you're suggesting. You want Charlotte, a M1 Killer, to have to do the downing herself so you can loop the Killer for several gens, I suppose. Which makes sense, M1 Killers are the most fun for Survivor players... meanwhile you want what Victor can already do at his base to be... basekit...? Victor already reveals his aura to Charlotte at all times AND does all of that. Victor needs to prevent Survivors from vaulting or throwing down pallets if you want to make him unable to down, because you're suggesting that a Killer loses their only downing potential AND actual threat to the Survivors in favor of things that are already basekit. Tip: Tracking is absolutely useless if you can't get anything off of it. Legion proves this nicely at times.
Its always remarkable how all the suggestions are literally make victor useless or make Charlotte M1 killer.
When hag, trapper and Leatherface camp the entire game and win, "No problem".
When twin does it? wow unfair reeeee
When Oni and Nurse slug 24/7, Balanced killer.
When twins does it? reeee
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@Lord_Tony said:
nurse and spirit ain't getting nerfed till SWF gets nerfed
Spirit and Freddy were most complained about killers, they got freddy, Spirit's likely to be next on chopping block. You'll see, just wait 6-8 months. You think survivors stop when they got billy weakened? hell, no, they'll look for the next target, she is so obviously next target.
Why do you think they're buffing lucky break, its not just random change, Lucky break is very specific perk for... a very specific killer.
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Myers fracture cowshed, ouch. Otz is lucky that 2 of the survivors were not playing to their best of their ability.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2129523#Comment_2129523
"This is not how it works. when you weaken a survivor or killer perk, it does not create diversification, it just removes the perk from pool of perks that people would choose from. Take Undying+Ruin for example."
That is how it works. Lowering certain perks brings other perks into the meta.
"If you weaken all of the survivor perk or all of killer perks that are meta, you are effectively weakening that side as whole and will create a perk imbalance for one side."
Because that side does effectively need weakening, that's part of the point. Survivors already have a perk imbalance that we're trying to correct here.
"At the end of the day, a perk either
A) impact play
B) has no effect on the game"
This is quite a superfluous statement. "perks do something or they don't" Kinda silly right?
"so for example, new lucky break perk, its either a good perk or its not good perk. there's nothing in the middle when it comes to DBD."
That's just not true. It's a sliding scale of power, not a yes or no.
"easy example of that is ruin vs devour hope, devour hope has a potentially strong effect, but your more likely to face Ruin than devour hope because Devour hope effect is not "wanted" as much as Ruin effect is."
That is not why you see Ruin instead of Devour. You see Ruin instead of Devour because the likely hood of you losing Devour before getting value out of it is very high. You'll at least get some value out of Ruin even if it is cleanses in 1 minute. People would much rather have Devours effect.
Survivors definitely need weakening but perks is not one of those places. Most of survivor imbalances are more related to structure of the game, such as god pallet, ultra-safe loop design, non-impactful killer powers, gen speed.
The statement is not superfluous, the perks that get used are often... objectively the best perks for each side. This is where statistics is really good. There is zero ambiguity. period. what decides what get used and what does not get used the purpose of the perk and its scale of power, but often, the scale of power is like.... a true or false question. Take Iron will for example. The strength of iron will lies in its ability to make a survivor completely silent often used to juke killers at wallblocker loops(to hold W against them & waste time). Anything that is not silent for example Tier 1 Iron will will have no effect on gameplay because anything that is not perfectly silent will allow killers to track them despite equipping of a perk. even Tier 3 version of Iron will that is 90% sound reduction will have the effect of tier 1 Iron will.
There's load of things in DBD that are like that. Instant downs, you can't scale instant downs, they either instant down or do not instant down. there is nothing in between. Dead hard for distance, i mean you can scale the dash but at the end of the day, the question becomes "Does this dash save me" yes/no and if yes, the perk fulfill its effectiveness and if it does not, it will not get used.
Some things do scale numerically, like Surge vs Pop goes weasel but its again always going come down to the question of whether this perk slowdown the game enough where you notice a boost your performance/chances of winning and whether its worth the perk slot of something else.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2128152#Comment_2128152
"Most of the meta perks for survivors are fine"
Most the survivor meta perks are very unhealthy design.
"More stuff like Soul Guard, For The People, Fast Track, and Smash Hit are what survivors need for the meta to be shaken up."
These are the complete opposite of what we need.
You're wanting new perks to be brought to the level of perks that are too high to shake up the meta when what we need is those top perks brought down to shake up the meta.
This is not how it works. when you weaken a survivor or killer perk, it does not create diversification, it just removes the perk from pool of perks that people would choose from. Take Undying+Ruin for example.
When Undying got nerfed, it didn't "shake" killer meta, it just made that perk not get used. so when you have roughly 4 choices for slowing the game down(Ruin,Pop,Sloppy,Corrupt), Undying become unconsidered
Its same for survivor perks. When Mettle of Man or for example balance landing got nerfed, the perk did not "shake" the survivor meta. It simply died out. The choice between using Dead Hard and using Balance Landing is not a question of which exhaust is better, it's other one is superior and other is pointless to run. Balance landing rarely gets used (In comparison to dead hard). Weakening MoM did not make other survivor perks get used more, It just made MoM never get used because it was over-nerfed to being complete worthless.
If you weaken all of the survivor perk or all of killer perks that are meta, you are effectively weakening that side as whole and will create a perk imbalance for one side.
At the end of the day, a perk either
A) impact play
B) has no effect on the game
so for example, new lucky break perk, its either a good perk or its not good perk. there's nothing in the middle when it comes to DBD. Its either want this effect in their build or do not want this effect in their build. Many of the perks that are bad are structurally bad. What they give is unwanted and even if this effect was tuned to be slightly bit impactful, Its not going change the meta because its simply not wanted. easy example of that is ruin vs devour hope, devour hope has a potentially strong effect, but your more likely to face Ruin than devour hope because Devour hope effect is not "wanted" as much as Ruin effect is. Instant downs are great and all, but slow down generator is more competitive strategy.
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@GodLikeTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2129162#Comment_2129162
Bubba isn't that hard to counter even with bamboozle. Clown is totally the opposite since he is so oppressive on every single tile in the game. The only tile I think clown struggles with is myers house and groaning storehouse main building.
I don't find clown oppressive at any safe tile. Bubba is not oppressive at any tile but a strong bubba player breaks pallet so quickly that you will create massive dead zones with Bubba and he's instant down killer meaning that if your out-position, your going down mate. This with extremely fast pallet breaks creates great zoning capacity to down survivors that have cornered themselves in the map. Also most Bubba players tend to use the perk "Tinkerer" which is very deadly perk that you need to pay attention as survivor.
With clown, he is actually very slow at brute forcing pallets and he has no innate instant down capacity meaning that even if your out of position, your still have opportunity to loop clown for awhile. He will down you eventually but he's probably lost entire game from holding W and breaking a lot of pallets. The slugging aspect does not exist with clown because clown is in fact terrible at snowballing vs solid loopers and offers no capacity to pressure split generator pressure around the map nor knock-off many health states quickly(like Bubba can).
I still think that if clown's yellow bottles had no activation delay, he could be a difficulty killer to beat because he would potential blight-level speed between loops and he could probably play most safe pallets even when dropped.
The speed-up and slowdowns would very unpredictable to play around. Doubt they'll ever make clown a force reckon though.
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Yes, its that easy. by the way Freddy op /s
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2128134#Comment_2128134
No when I play trapper I don't get into chases, I usually three gen them and set up may traps around the gens, and ruin. And I get a lot more wins with trapper in red ranks. It's not annoying since I don't loop. Or with trapper loops pretty much get such down. And same I hope that they buff him before this new chapter comes out. Or as you say, he may never get buffed, or it may take a year till he gets buffed. it's a shame since I think he is unique and cool, how he can talk, and he is also fun to play but not in red ranks.
I agree. whoever did voice acting on him and his character did a really good job and he is super fun to play but super fun while not being effective kinda sucks. that is my trapper play-style too. I used to chase with trapper, but whenever you'd face good team, there would be an object of obsession that just makes placing traps nearly impossible. Its either that or swf would manually follow you entire game calling your traps making your ability useless.
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@Trickstaaaaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2126922#Comment_2126922
I mean that is my point even with people with Trapper in red ranks I get more wins than with this guy, and supposedly Trapper is useless. And why is the trickster even "easy" to use, when he should be hard. And you do realized that the guy Dowsey, I think. He is probably in the top 1 percent of the killer base. I mean you are showing one of the best users, that dude got a 200+ kill streak with the twins. That shows you how extreme he is.
Yeah, that is my entire point. you'll same results playing trapper as you would playing trickster, except you work way harder for your downs. Its not that he is unplayable, its that its extremely unrewarding to play him even when your good at him.
I mean take this laceration mechanic that trickster has that forces him take every chase no matter how good or bad it is. The fact that survivors heal his damage over time automatically is reminiscent of one of the survivor's add-on for med kits.
Red Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe anyone? Every time the survivor escapes a chase with 1-2 hits remaining, they get an automatic red Syringe for free if the killer does not pursue them to the end. Imagine when the killers mechanics gives everyone iridescent add-on for free in the lobby just for selecting him.
The movement speed changes are great, but its still very sloppy to chase people around wall-blocker loops. He is still too slow I'd say. Main event is still very lackluster because of this and for some reason, you still have no control(apart from 99ing) over its activation. I got no clue, hopefully they improve him in a month. With announcement of RE coming to DBD, its likely that everyone will forget he exists after new chapter comes out and he will be another killer in dust bin.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKk1Ny80Vzg@Trickstaaaaa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2126824#Comment_2126824
He is the weakest killer in the game. In red ranks he is unusable in most matches. Even with trapper you can play him in red ranks, and not lose as much as with this guy. Playing the trickster in a loop, is like playing a huntress without hatchets. He is 110, if a looper can avoid your knifes, you can expect to get looped for a couple of minutes. And with it's loss after loss in the red ranks. As zozzy said even de-ranking is hard, so I'm stuck in rank 4, since I keep using him. It's not even fun to see the same game style, getting looped in shack for infinity, or all you have to do in some cases is hold shift-w and run far away. He is usable in lower ranks, purple, and green, but for the most part in red ranks forget about it.
Here's good sample of the level you need to be at it to play him at red ranks.
He has genuinely extremely high skill-cap that probably rivals nurse. I wouldn't be surprised if his kill stats were worse than Nurse at red ranks. he is genuinely really hard to play and offers little reward for effort it takes to land every single knife. 1000 hours simply isn't going to cut it mate. That is practically brand new. you'll need about 3000 hours before you can play this guy to a good-level and very strong fps fundamentals+killer fundamentals. he has the reward-level of an average middle of the road B-tier killer with skill-cap of like nurse. Even if they improved him massively, I'd imagine that majority of killer-base would still probably lose with him.
Personally I do fine with him after his changes, but for average Joe killer 1000 hr player, they don't got a flying chance to play him at red ranks.
Is it possible to play him at red ranks? Yes.
Is it rewarding? No.
Your better off just playing Huntress with fridge-size hatchet hitboxs. Even deathslinger is single shot is probably easier than 16 knives for average Joe.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2123473#Comment_2123473
Come on, don't lose hope like that. This thread proves that an option to play as Old Freddy is a highly requested thing.
Maybe the devs will listen to us.
Still don't see it.
- It costs money to reprogram old freddy+add-ons
- It wastes resources because old freddy was reworked with his new tools like generator TP and fake pallets/snare graphics
- It is not profitable because everyone already bought Freddy for when he was "good".
The game has 23 killers, but you can accept that billy & freddy are -2 because survivors said that both of these killers were label as "unfun". maybe one day billy will gets his instantsaw back and freddy will return his glory but for now you can just accept that those 2 killers will be dead. Funny enough, I predict freddy will still have 70% killrate but most likely will have like a 1% play rate or something.
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@Blueberry said:
Honestly +1
Old Freddy from long ago was so much more unique and fun to play than what we have now. Bring him back and revert the original nerfs.
I think we should accept that old freddy is never coming back and modern freddy will be Billy-level gutted probably for the rest of the games lifespan. The only chance he has of coming back is if they release new killer with that has wallhack/aura reading as their power and low tr/undetectable.
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@MrDardon said:
In my opinion, it's a bit overrated. Sure it slows down the game a bit by extending healing times but it's not that much actually.
20 % of 16 seconds isn't even 4 seconds, it extends healing time by 3.2 seconds and 6.4 seconds when healing with Self Care, which you'll have to be an idiot to heal with SC trough Sloppy Butcher every time you get hit.
Good Survivors won't heal for no reason regardless of Sloppy being in play or not. On my part, I started using Iron Will and I almost never heal anymore, practically it's almost like No Mither at that point. I just don't see a reason to heal if you are a good looper and semi decent at the game. Sloppy only works because of the bad Survivors who heal no matter what. Sloppy is a wasted Perk slot against semi decent Survivors and that's why I think it's overrated.
If Bloodhound and SB were merged into one Perk, it would actually be a decent tracking Perk. I like Bloodhound but on it's own it's a bit weak. If SB and BH were merged, it would probably be my favourite tracking Perk on top of the little slowdown you get from it.
But Sloppy Butcher is a bit underwhelming in my opinion and every player with game sense would say the same. Only bad Survivors would call SB op or unfair.
I think this is good concise for better survivors. The better you get at looping killers, the less you take hits, the less you get affected by the perk. worse case scenario, you are running iron will and want to stay injured to do gens. I kinda wish there was a perk to extend sloppy butcher mangled effect per person injured so that we could use thanotophobia to get some gen defense from injury survivors. Bloodhound is not particularly useful for killer as default tracking is good enough.
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@Kirkylad said:
I thought he was but dowsey said he's more lethal than deathslinger so he can't be..... right? 😂😂
He has no issues with chases anymore, those were problems pre-change trickster. His current issues is the inability to juggle survivors and spread damage efficiently due to his laceration meter decay. It makes him lose a lot of injure pressure if he does not successfully land 8(7) knives on a survivor, so he loses a lot of potential generator slowdown from healing.
He is good at 1vs1, but he's lacking 1vs4 now. I think the post that talks about having 50% laceration meter stay on the survivor is perhaps only change that is missing in current trickster. Other than that, he is perfect where he is at.
People struggle to down survivors just do not have tracking skill necessary to play him. You can play Huntress or Deathslinger, those two are more for players that are better at flick-shots.
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PC players manipulate recoil so that it has little to no impact on our aim. It is only noticeable at very far ranges.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjaKeGYNbas
I saw this on my youtube feed like 2 weeks ago and i was like, "that can't be real" and... well I think its safe to say that its probably going to be MR X and Chris though I imagine that graphics will be much more polished and it will be its own BVHR touch.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2112923#Comment_2112923
Then make it harder to hit with the lunge because he is a bloody magnet right now. On the rare event you do make him miss by using the terrain or somehow managing to avoid the hitbox, he shows up again before you can heal / be healed.
Are people really asking Twins to be M1 killer longer? As Blueberry stated, the cooldown of victor is deceptively longer than what it appears to be and victor does have counter-play which Blueberry explains for how victor cannot break pallets nor force window to block because your not in a chase according to the game. This again developer needs to address their emblem system for survivor within boldness category. Kicking victor should give survivor like 1/10 of iri boldness emblem or something.
Victor still needs to be able to down people at pallets and windows, otherwise the killer would have no counter-play to survivor's gameplay which is what a lot of M1 killers suffer from. The twins need to slug vs good players because asking a killer to not slug is asking them to do 9-12 hooks and Twins have a lot of time inefficiency in their gameplay, so they cut the hook count short to about 6 hooks as gens do not really allow much more than that.
Bare in mind, you can 12 hooks with twins, but you need to be facing some chiller survivors.
@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2112896#Comment_2112896
Which is exactly why it didn't need to be changed. It is her only viable play style that also already has tons of counter play available.
If you also saw my other post I already proposed a change for removing her hook camping which is her only real issue.
They already address this. Borrow time now works globally so no more Victor slugs at hooks.
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2113194#Comment_2113194
Do you only M1 when they are close to a loop?
My problem with Trickzy is that I cannot play around jungle gyms and high loops.
Yes, I want you to teach me because I have been having rough games and I really like this Killer.
Its hard but one of good aspects of trickster is that worse survivors will often frequently animation lock themselves for you to throw many knives at them. Like they'll drop pallet and you can just go chip chip chip chip. they vault a window, chip chip chip, re-vault back, chip chip chip. Its that better survivor players do not really do that, they just abuse fact he moves at 96%(previously 92%) and if its like jungle gym, you can just loop him 5-6 times and he can't really throw any knives. when you do throw pallet, he hits with few knives, but you can run forward and by the time he catches up. your laceration meter will deplete.
I'd say choice between M1 and not M1 is whether you want spend 8-20 knives, survivor gains less distance but you reload more at lockers.
Dowsey is pretty good Trickster. you can watch 1 hour of his gameplay here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKk1Ny80Vzg
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@Blueberry said:
I really hope this patch was not one of those "hyped updates" he referenced because bar a couple good changes this update is mostly awful.
I think the reason why he is saying that is that they just gutted one of most played killers(Freddy) and one of the most famous horror icons. DBD has always has this stigma of hurting one side really badly, but than compensating it later down the line. Like for example they over-change decisive strike but add new lucky break. I wonder what they will change for killer for this freddy change in next 3-6 months.
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@Lochnload_exe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/242748/trickster-still-f-tier
I really dont understand why people say 115% would help the killer lmao. It would just make him a better m1 killer, but it wouldnt fit why he is bad. Its like saying trapper needs a buff, make him 120%. It would help him but doesnt actually buff him where it needs. These buffs for the trickster are welcome additions and im excited for what else they have planned for him.
Yeah I do not get it either. most of his changes had no impact on gameplay. Reduced recoil did nothing, increased laceration by 5 did nothing and decreased wind-up also did nothing. All the problems that were there before remain same.
- He is gets countered by high wall loops, the keep-up is still slower than survivors.
- He still does no damage. 8 hits per injury, 16 for a down on a healthy survivor
- Survivors still heal his damage over-time.
- He still has no control over his main event.
Until they fix these points, his power will ineffective regardless of what movement speed goes.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2107051#Comment_2107051
I find that doubtful. This is the kind of bug that is 100% game breaking. Making it possible for all 4 survivors to see the killer within a potential range of 80m without the killer having any clue how/why will get fixed very promptly.
no that is 32 meters. Its killer TR. Killer TR is pretty big. 80 meters is like from one side of red forest to another. Its nearly the size of Empathy. Kindred+Open handed is working as intended.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2106913#Comment_2106913
You’re completely ignoring the point.
If MoM gave endurance EVERY TIME a survivor was injured andonce per chase, without needing to gain protection hits first, wouldn’t that be a problem?!
MoM was that. it used to give you a free dead hard every 3rd basic attack. It was wonderful time to play killer, Dead hard+Borrow time+MoM+Decisive strike with med kit+old instant heals. Thank goodness Nurse omega blink and 5 blink nurse was in the game, hitting a survivor 5 times per chase was really something. It was pretty common to see this x4 in every lobby.
I think its matter of tolerance level. Dead hard makes every survivor have 3 health states, but one of them is positional health state. I think it would be better if it was more situational than guaranteed distance gain into ultra safe pallet/windows. If the perk was "Gain Endurance for 2 seconds" with no deep wound, it would fix issue of latency messing up the dead hard dash because it would work like status effects like debuff which I think are client sided based instead of server sided and those are applied instantly. you can't have a "delayed" borrowed time on the floor if you know what I am getting at. It would also increase variance of the perk whether a skilled looper would get value out of the perk instead of producing guaranteed value(for skilled loopers).
Still solution wouldn't be perfect. You would be able to press dead hard and run in straight line for 2 seconds to a pallet/window zero risk of getting downed but you would not benefit from sprint burst as you would be locked into animation of vaulting/throwing down pallets but I guess that is just nature of this perk. It is not S-tier for no reason.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2103788#Comment_2103788
As for the movie, I agree with everything you've said, especially with number 1. Making him an innocent man would be such a good twist for the story, and it would give him a very powerful desire for revenge, which could be explored in many different ways. And I was pissed that they removed his daughter from the story. I just really like Katherine Krueger.
Back to DBD, take a look at his first nerf:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/YZ8KLZPB55Q3/image.png
And I agree, all he needed were a few buffs and QoL changes, not a full rework. Maybe one day we will have the opportunity to play as Old Freddy again. That is what I truly want.
Yeah, Survivors couldn't stand the idea of facing a killer that has wallhack on them at loops so he got gutted. he still had a unique stealth play-style with monitor&abuse+very specific add-on(i think it was cat block+some other add-on that made it so that skill-check chance is reduced significantly). Other combination was pill bottle+class photocard. He wasn't that bad but he had no way to outplay survivors at loops and chasing with him as M1 killer was more detrimental than usual, so people classed him as bad killer which he was, but he wasn't as bad like current Trickster level. Freddy can now join his buddy Billy at the bar and talk about their journey for how they were once feared killers.
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It is not what is written
"We’re back with another Developer Update, a series of posts going over the biggest changes coming to Dead by Daylight. This time around, we’ll cover a long list of Killer, perk, and quality of life updates that’ll appear in the upcoming Player Test Build (PTB).
Killer Updates
The Nightmare
For some time, The Nightmare has stood out from the crowd with a particularly high kill rate, averaging roughly 3 kills per match. With that in mind, we’ve made some slight tweaks to bring him closer in line with the rest of the roster."
I mean your either balancing off kill rate or NOT balancing off kill rate. I wonder what patch Nurse will receive 3 blinks base-kit. She only has 40% killrate, right devs? wink wink
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@Kebek said:
Lucky break was always perk that was supposed to be focused around blood pool and imo it should stay like that.
I don't get why we can't get pernament removal of blood pools for lucky break and give the new no scratch marks for X duration to perks like lightweight that fit that flavor much more.
They should make blood marks disappear permanently and keep scratch marks on 90 second timer.
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@Zucker_Schock said:
Borrowed Time change:
The thing with this change is, it promotes bad gameplay with unsafe unhooks behind the killers back and hook farming. That already was the case before the change but it will not make it better. Basically you can unhook everytime, without consequences. So strap on BT and shut off your head while unhooking. Its also a nerf for stealth killers, which already arent in a good spot. I dont like the concept of strong perks having no counter play at all, giving a free hit every time.
that is what the developer promote in survivor gameplay. Press E to outplay. free unhooking, free god pallets, free wins. I mean remember, Borrow time was invented to be a perk to counter camping, specifically facecamping like Leatherface. Instead what the gets used for is hook bombing and rushing generators vs killers that have natural defensive gameplay style in locking down areas like Hag. Thanks for buffing the most braindead survivor perk of all the time.
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@Blueberry said:
Absolutely terrible Twins change.
They heavily nerfed her only viable strategy without actually buffing her in other areas to make those more viable.
They're really trying to kill off the only 3 people that play them. As if we don't already never see them.
So disconnected with the game.
That change is probably going to make me give up on Twins. R.I.P. Imagine weakening only thing they're good at. slugging.
Freddy changes are more detached from high-level. That's another killer that I am probably never touching ever again. Whats the point of becoming good at any killer if all your efforts become meaningless in the end.
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@kyogul said:
The issue I found in SBMM were generator speeds. Unless you're Blight, Nurse, or Spirit, you do not have the potential to traverse a large map and down someone fast at the same time if they are competent. It does not take long for 3 generators to go by if all of the survivors are split up.
I tried playing wholesome builds in SBMM like not using any slowdown perks on Freddy. Games ended in order 8 minutes. I was forced to use ruin undying pop to have a chance against the survivors who were all running meta perk builds
Gen speed is biggest indicator of stronger survivor teams, so it is no surprise. Freddy can't compete vs good teams, he is only strong when he uses regression/gen perks, too bad devs are smoking weed and will still gut Freddy. I do not think that you will get balance changes from SBMM. I think you will only get objectively better matchmaking for survivor. Killers will lose more because they're facing survivors of their skill-level more often. Killers can stop bragging about how good they are at killing bad survivors from bad matchmaking.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096265#Comment_2096265
That wouldn't work actually. The perk is only active when you're within 12m of a hooked Survivor so you lose the Endurance the second the unhook happens. So trying to use the perk while healthy wouldn't do anything? Because you take the hit. Get the save and now you're injured with no Endurance. So you just did a normal hook bomb trade...
It's nothing like old borrowed time because its impossible for both teammates the have the Endurance at the same time. One is only while someone is hooked the other is only after being unhooked.
Its too strong. a killer can hook someone near a strong loop, like jungle gym or even lesser safe loops like T-L and there would be no risk of going down. It turns every hook into old MoM area. Even when the killer gets a hit, the recovery frame+speed boost will allow any survivor to always get an unhook from BT which either leads to BT bodyblocking or a guaranteed hook trade. Normally its discouraged to ever loop around a hooked survivor but this perk specifically encourages this gameplay, ironically making it super rewarding.
The exhaustion perk compounds the major problem of Shift+W from health states that honestly give way too much distance in current iteration of the game and the perk is almost better than Sprint burst with one exception that instant downs counter it its effect.
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survivors hate mending in general. Its just boring gameplay. they'll never implement mending gameplay to trickster. Just laceration not going down from M1's would make him a lot more lethal. if it did not go down in general, his mechanic of laceration would in fact be huge advantage over other ranged killers instead of major hindrance.
Maybe they'll improve him further but I have feeling that after his changes go through, most killers will be happy where he's at so he probably will not receive any further changes even if he could be made stronger.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2096204#Comment_2096204
S tier is viable against equally good survivors. Oni and Blight are not S tier. A tier requires at least some survivors mistakes to capitalize on. To beat an efficient team with either of them you will be slugging and that team will have 4 Unbreakables and probably at least 1 WGLF. IE you will be forced to be one hooking each of them one by one. Playing that way is literally unviable when you add up the time for your objective compared to theirs.
so you mean to tell me that you have never been hit with an M1 from Oni? I am not quite sure if I believe that. that does not sound likely nor realistic to normal gameplay. I also think that Unbreakable and specifically 4 unbreakable is SUPER unrealistic. Its probably one of the most overrated survivors perk in the game. The reason why its not amazing is because it only works when your at brink of defeat as survivor and that is simply not when survivors are at their strongest.
The reason why the perk got such big hype for being a good perk was because the perk decisive strike was so strong for long because survivors used DS+Unbreakable to rush generators which does not exist anymore. WGLF is not worth going into either, its obviously a BP farm perk. It can make plays in very specific situations but its definitely not a perk you will see at top-level.
The contradiction of saying that the killer relies on survivor mistakes and than mentioning perks that rely on survivor mistakes to activate is a self-defeating argument. I assure that if there was a steam achievement where you need escape as the team without taking single hit as team, that would be one of hardest achievements to ever acquire so much so that it will never happen vs any good killer player.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2094215#Comment_2094215
How much genuine, serious time have you invested into Clown?
Really?
You kinda leave the impression that no killer is strong enough until the game is completely unplayable Survivor. I don’t know if that is or isn’t in fact your intention, but it is the impression you leave a lot of the time.
I'd say i've played around maybe 300 games on clown? so I'd say that is about 100 hours of nothing but clown. Maybe I am undershooting, it could be something more like 500 games or so but I never manually counted it. Its just approximation. maybe its something like 250 hours of clown.
one of major strengths stronger killers is that they often have unpredictable catch-up/measurement of distance. let me give few examples. Nurse charges blinks, there is no detell sign for where nurse will precisely blink, the survivor needs makes predictions for where she will blink in order attempt to counter-play the nurse. The spirit is another killer where survivors are unable to predict where her phase will start and where it will end. survivor's best attempt to counter-play spirit is to use barriers and manipulate sound against her. One of the major complaints about Freddy is that Freddy short height makes his lunge deceptively long and hard to read for survivors. This plays really well into his strengths because survivors unable to gauge whether they're safe or not a lot of the time.
You would think that Clown shares this strength with his speed bottles where it would be tricky to gauge how close/how far he is towards the survivor in open field and at pallet loops. Well, that simply is not the case. The activation delay for his yellow bottles means that he always has to throw X distance away to gain benefits from his speed-up so he always has consistently, the same catch-up every single time. Not only that, at loops, he has almost no dynamic bottle tossing. Its always nearly exact same yellow bottle placement every single time because he needs account his delay in getting his speed up and he cannot allow the survivor to make the loop otherwise they gain his speed up which cancels his own bottle effect on himself. It also leads to some awkward pauses at loops at times. If his yellow bottle was instant, he could better use his speed-up more dynamically to get hits. this would comparable to how survivors dynamically use dead hard for distance to change what would be a hit into safe play. moral of the story, he is far too predictable in current approach of the game and strong killers are UNPREDICTABLE and the purple bottle does not have enough oof on its own to make big difference in loops which is why his chases are comparatively as long as most M1 killers.
This is why he hasn't improved very much because his gameplay is not dynamic enough.