Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2277996#Comment_2277996
Spawns should be dictated first, then everything else around that. All survivors should spawn next to each other, next to a gen that only 1 person can repair. HEX totems should spawn away from the survivor spawn. Killer should always spawn on other side of the map.
almost all gens in the game are 2-3 man generators. just look a map like gas heaven. your requesting survivors to spawn on 1 man generator when zero generators are 1 man generator on gas heaven and its like that for like 90% of the maps. survivor spawning on totems is terrible though. its almost like haunted ground is reliable hex perk than actual hex perks......
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@MadLordJack said:
Nemesis is fine. His ranged attack is essentially short-range Deathslinger and impossible to dodge if the killer is good, you actually want survivors to cleanse becuase infecting survivors gives you a massive mutation boost and it also wastes much more of their time than yours.
no, you do not want survivors to cleanse because extra speed boost is just added chase time. The short-range ability is so short that its probably worse then a lunge attack at base distance-wise and the same as lunge attack at tier 3(have not tested this). Bards whole point is that he is explaining that nemesis entire kit is full unnecessary complications that are just drawbacks without any real tangible benefits.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2275238#Comment_2275238
You're missing the point man. All-seeing and windstorm was possible before, yes, but this meant you couldn't run a bell add-on or one of his other good add-ons alongside the good movement speed and all-seeing. But now, you can. 150% m/s, all-seeing and a silent/global bell or the sloppy butcher add-on, or purple swift hunt is very strong, and it's a little too much.
Bell add-on are overrated. realistically speaking, if your on a open generator, you will see wraith's shimmer if your even remotely attentive and if its generator that is dead angle, the ability to hear noise or suppress noise of his bell 9/10 has little impact of whether you will get a first hit or not. Very few survivors will be able to react to his lunge from the bell noise. If they're countering your stealth, a lot of the time, Its either they're swf, they're using spine chill(you can play around this as killer) or they hear your growling noise.
The sloppy butcher add-on is..... just equip sloppy butcher. yes you can play 5 perk wraith.... just like you can play 6 perk nurse with nurse calling and stridor add-on or 5 perk clown, 5 perk deathslinger, legion and so on. Many killers have mangled add-on. Swift hunt and these uncloaking add-on have a very minimal effect to decloaking, I never used these on old wraith and frankly they're not very good. they change his uncloaking time... by whooping 0.3 seconds. A wraith that is played well will often bodyblock survivors in front of them and if successful, wraith's speed-boost post cloak gives him just enough distance to land a hit. Moral of the story, you don't need swift-hunt to play wraith.
so even though wraith has more add-on choices..... his classical old set is ..... still objectively his better set both pre and post change which is why you see wraith's use this add-on a lot. its just really good add-on for information and getting into chase quickly. The other common set you will see is serpent+shadow dance.. but if they're running that, they're not running all-seeing blood so that is mood point.
Wraith is... still just Wraith at the end of the day.
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@Kebek I was using this mechanic day 1 in the PTB. The ability to slide the hitbox defeats purpose of having making a skillshot that is suppose to be possible to dodge. so Its kinda unfair towards the ability. It just makes ability not really a skillshot and more of alternative lunge attack that has 100% chance to hit if you have the most basic tracking skill.
problem is that nemesis is kinda weak and has no real selling points beyond this. I mean his add-on list is effective blank with only good add-on being that undetectable add-on for killing zombies. He has 2 zombies that frankly don't do much. The infection mechanic just a hindrance to require 3 hits to down and tiers are mediocre bonuses that realistically could just be base-kit.
so Nemesis is just a killer with m2-like lunge that hits through pallets and often abuses animation lock creating lose/lose situations. Its why some people refer to nemesis as pyramid head 2.0 referencing old pyramid head mechanics.
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@ALostPuppy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2275101#Comment_2275101
It's a purple add-on, not an iri, and it's 12m of wallhacks on a killer that moves at 150% speed AND has the option of bringing a silent bell add-on, or a sloppy butcher add-on too on top of it all. The iri version lets you see gen progress which is strong and deserves being a red.
The add-on was ok before the nerf, but now with Wraith's new buffs it makes him a bit too overbearing.
what are you talking about. old wraith could run purple windstorm and all-seeing. statistically wraith's changes were that if you ran this exact same combination. he got an increase of... 8% speed, a 0.25 second longer speed boost and a lower shimmer. Its funny how dev suddenly got this idea that demo is suddenly "too strong" and how people someone got this idea that "All-seeing wraith" is this new concept that they never heard of.
All-seeing wraith has been in the game.... for like 2 years and nobody complained about him because he was rarely ever played and seen as not a remarkable killer. he has barely changed. his biggest changes is better add-on flexibility and a better lunge post-uncloaking making him significantly better at loops. Wraith players ran all-seeing+windstorm in the past... and I still run it even now.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2272654#Comment_2272654
Demogorgon, unlike those two, also gets free zoning and an instant ranged attack. What that means is that he constantly charges his power with no downside because the slowness doesn't kick in til he's ready to shred, then when someone is at a pallet he shreds and either hits the survivor because they didn't throw the pallet and they have no time to dodge, or breaks the pallet insanely quickly and leaves them no time to get to another tile and loop it, forcing them to once again either instantly throw the pallet or take a hit.
I've been playing a lot of demogorgon recently, that really is his playstyle with Barbs Glasses.
Edit: Also, I do not struggle against good teams as Demo, but I also never bought in to the Cult of STBFL.
I understand his playstyle. I've been playing him ever since his change everyday. he is super fun to play now. I'll still probably be playing him. Barbed glasses will still be used. Its just that demo became worse for no apparent reason. in fact I haven't seen a single survivor thread complain about him. not even Sluzzy. Its just making the killer worse when nobody asked for it.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2272295#Comment_2272295
Barbs Glasses wasn't QoL, it was (and still is) the fastest a killer can force pallets down and absolutely tear through them. Those add-ons feel good because they are good, Barbs Glasses especially.
billy and leathrface are both 1 second breaks. demo is 2 seconds. with barbed glases, it was 1.6. now its 1.7 seconds. the add-on just made him more tolerable to play. they weren't game-breaking. why hurt killer where nothing was wrong with him. demo will still struggle vs good survior teams.
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@Crowman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2272282#Comment_2272282
Vermillion Webcap also got buffed. Increases undetectable duration by 3 seconds from 1 second.
yeah its pointless. you hear his footsteps when undetectable and he makes a sound when using portals. if you want stealth add-on, use his iri one that make it silent. I was using the lifeguard whistle for info and barbed glasses. both got weaker. apparently overperforming i guess... even though I don't think i'd win any strong team with him. just anti-fun changes.
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@Mooks said:
They didn’t just nerf Demos addons, there are also some buffs to other addons..
Only 1 add-on got buffed and its pointless one. Rat tail used to be 50% before it got nerfed to 25%. I am only sad for his barbed glasses change. it was my favorite add-on him :(
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Bad idea. whenever survivor is affected by tonic, they scream. Stealth concepts like.. oblivious do not work with killers that constantly reveal the position of a killer. Clown does that. Antidote already gives clown utility(speed). Its just too situational to use due to activation time. Reload 3->2 is a yellow add-on called Thick Cork Stopper. None of these change proposed affect generator progression or Tracking.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2268275#Comment_2268275
this just isn't true.
repairing 4 seperate generators at the start of the game, meaning 3 gens will be done by the first hook with another at around 40% progression, is the broken aspect of generators. unless prove thyself comes into play, seeing multiple survivors on a generator is a blessing (even with PT it's a blessing because you can then pressure 2 people at a time instead of 1).
what prove thyself does is it removes penalties for grouping up together. You have to realize that 2 survivors working together receive 3 STACKS of thanophobia each. With two people on generator, there's less chance you get to interrupt 2 people doing a generator than one person because you have less time to gen pressure. Co-op has risk vs reward element to it. Another way to think of prove thyself is that the perk gives you a permanent Old Commodus toolbox for the entire game. Its kinda why prove thyself is a lot stronger than people think it is.
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@TheBus4K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2266143#Comment_2266143
And simply by nerfing his addons and adding an overheat mechanic to his base kit he went from being one of the best killers to a Tier C killer? Tier C killer is basically being one of the worst killers. I just don't understand how that can happen.
The problem is that even Hillbilly without the instasaw addons was incredible, for its infinite mobility, infinite oneshot ability, fast turns on loops, etc.
he didn't go from S-tier to C-tier because of overheat. he went to S-tier to C-tier because he can't beat good players without instantsaw. he used those add-on to curve good players.
Infinity instant down is worthless if you can't hit anyone. Infinity mobility is worthless if your not converting downs quickly to move from one chase to another in rapid succession.
Its same Freddy and his slowdown add-on+Snare anti-loop. This game is balanced around generator regression/slowdown perks for killer and anti-loop because good survivors are able to complete in optimized time frame that makes nearly impossible for killers to ever have a chance to win. His add-on balanced the game-speed and most loops for killers are extremely unfair that killers need methods to cut a chase time of 2 minutes into something more manageable like 60 seconds.
Negative killer changes only hurt good killer players because they siphon and heavily limit the killer's skill expression with that character. People that do not optimize their play with that killer will lose regardless of how powerful that character is because they were not using that character's kit to their full potential. DBD is the type of game where both sides rely on both sides to make mistakes but the faction that makes least to come out on top.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2265192#Comment_2265192
Nah im sayin its fairly boring thats the style most people use. Since its not fairly rewarding in any other way. So going for a range requirement woulda been more rewarding and you wouldn't have felt robbed if a huntress sniped you with a insta down from 20 meters away. Also woulda made the addon worth it of iri rarity since good huntresses would run it because they could easily snipe. Now its fairly boring for both sides. No good huntress will run it because you have 1 hatchet. And bad hunteesses will only use it like a worser saw.
Not really. Deathslinger has an iri add-on that instant downs at 16 meters and nobody uses it. I have never seen deathslinger use iri-coin. Range and putting implicit drawbacks is to remove add-on from its use. A lot of killers have that because they like the idea of the add-on that makes killer super powerful (as challenge) but these add-on wouldn't work in current casual mode of the game. Powerful add-on tend to just lead into stomps for killer side and survivors giving up/suiciding. I don't mind going against these add-ons if there was like proper MMR system where you get really good teammates that handle playing vs this, but playing vs iri head huntress is like playing No mither survivor. its like ultra-hard mode. from looking at the teams i get in soloqueue sometimes, I am not sure they'd be able to play No mither-mode.
there are so many killers that have this, Billy tuned carburetor & iri add-on, Nurse iri-add-ons, Huntress iri add-on, Blight's iridescent Tag, Deathslinger iri-coin, Trickster's Death throes complication.
Other killers they didn't make good iri add-on like pyramid head or Oni probably because in their development, they couldn't come up with an add-on that would make them powerful. perhaps intentionally they felt powerful enough without the creation of the idea of one.
after that you have killers like Pig's Amanda letter, Plague's iridescent Seal, Ghostface's caught on tape, Cannibal tuning guide which just have weirdest drawbacks ever. they wouldn't as powerful as premium iri add-ons even if they had no drawback. Rule set.2 feels like it is suppose to read that it makes all survivors blind regardless whether trap is active or not but seems purposely weakened in fear of it being too powerful(?).
iri add-on balance for killers is really weird. Always has been.
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MMR works for some people and doesn't work for others. it didn't work for me. all my killers games were... beyond easy and half of my survivor games were new killers, the other half were teammates going into lockers after winning a lot. Guess otz got the same side as me.
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@Angelicus23 24-32 Lullaby does not exist. It is 32 or 24. The game says its 24 but your video states 32. Lullaby not modified by undetectable/oblivious nor TR perks. wiki going need to update it after they fix it in nemesis 5.0.0 patch on 15th next Tuesday. its really buggy
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2260176#Comment_2260176
On the dbd wiki hes listed as a killer with a lullaby but thats obviously not offical so idrk.
see I feel like its bug because with huntress. if you read her Bio, her terror radius is written as "20". it gives indication that she is outlier for what her true terror radius is. everyone knows it is like lullaby of 40 meters(I think). With trickster, it says its 24 but from that video, its showcase 32. I think freddy is 32 tr/32 lullaby. Lullaby are intentional not modified by TR perks so the fact he is getting modifications says that he was intentionally meant to have 24 TR but maybe in the code, someone miswrote a variable that changes terror radius to lullaby radius by accident.
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2258870#Comment_2258870
actual reason why I made this video is because I saw him using it
almost convinced they were drunk when making trickster. It doesn't even sound like lullaby. it looks like custom TR that is bugged with undetectable status effect and terror radius modifying perks. Guess we'll find out on patch 5.0 where they state to "fix" the problem.
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@odra said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2255463#Comment_2255463
With Freddy ? Freddy changes basically nothing with his power, they only touch forever freddy which is good enough for me, you're only true about billy, but what with other recent buff as wraith ?
when they do touch spirit then all spirit mains who get carried to red ranks will cry, thats for sure maybe they will try learn other strong killer like Nurse, Oni, etc but wont get carried with spirit
Billy's skills were oriented around chainsaw feathering, backreving and curving dynamically around a loop. these skills existed because of charge-time oriented add-ons. Basically, Billy chainsaw was so fast that him reving at a pallet would force survivors to make decisions for whether they wish to attempt to dodge curves or put down pallets. Billy breaks pallets very rapidly so a eventually, you'll have no pallets and many deadzones vs a killer that instant downs. now a days, Billy cannot curve good survivors because his chainsaw is too slow and survivors usually able to make the corner around most pallets before billy can land curves. Even than, curves can be side-stepped/avoided through reaction. This is why you no longer see much billy play.
Freddy's skills were oriented around using his snares effectively and his macro management of survivors. Typically, when your in dream world as survivor, most filler pallets have to be instantly dropped because can place a snare to left, a snare to the right and than he will push you into both snares allowing him to lunge at you and hit you before you can put down the pallet. For this reason, everyone is suppose to instant drop pallets vs freddy... however Freddy still makes these pallets unsafe because he could place snare around loops to artificial shrink length of a loop through his hindered effect. The problem now a days is that you get slowed for placing snares, so your hindered effect does nothing around pre-drop pallets so your forced to break them in which survivors will simply shift+W to next pallet and repeat same process until you break virtually every pallet on the map or abandon the chase. Some of the pallets are so safe to the point that survivor never needs to rotate them and can camp them but that's another matter entirely. His generator teleport was great way to elb-flow from chase to chase and micro manage survivors by keeping them in the dream world. As for micro managing survivors, Well there is no reward to it as you are not rewarded for keeping survivors in the dream nor is there any punishment/effect for being in dream world. Like billy, Freddy was able to prologue the game for long time so wasting pallets could lead to no pallets remaining in the map from a long game
Long story short, Billy doesn't get rewarded for being good at curving(Good usage of his chainsaw) and Freddy doesn't get rewarded for using his snares or keeping survivors in the dream world. so yes, for people that weren't really using these killers full-kit to their max potencial, the changes didn't really impact them but for Masterful billy and Freddy. The changes were impactful.
Now survivors are lazy to make reads against Spirit phase-walk so obvious solution is to make phase-walk unrewarding so you do not learn to play against spirit properly. easy way to accomplish this? Weaken add-on, weaken phase-walk, very simple.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2252698#Comment_2252698
The thing is, when Spirit first got nerfed, only the most broken things were nerfed:
- Prayer Beads
- the Amulet which was basically Tuning Guide on crack
- Lunge Add Ons which allowed to be on the wrong side of a Loop and still get a Hit in
- missing Vault Animation (which was probably the biggest nonsense ever)
- collision while phasing
And people said that Spirit would be dead after those Changes, and look where she is now - still the second-strongest Killer and still one of the most hated ones due to her lack of Counterplay.
I survived against a Spirit yesterday, because she did not have Stridor and her Perks indicated that she did not put that much time into Spirit. Still she got a 2K. And I know that some Content Creators even think that going against an inexperienced player is Counterplay (at least this what I took from one of the latest videos of one of those Content Creators..).
When it comes to her Add Ons, the big thing is that they are almost all good. Like, you dont have any Add Ons which have really many disadvantages, she has so many strong Add Ons. And I never thought about it that way, but they make her even more unpredictable.
In general, what you wrote "rough idea where she is during phasing"... This is the important part, a ROUGH idea. And this is what many people who are against a Spirit-Nerf dont understand, she should not be destroyed. But currently she gets all the information:
- With Stridor sound-->While not making any sound while phasing (not even Footsteps anymore, or at least not really audible)
- Moving grass-->While she does not move grass while phasing
- Faking her power is a win-win ---> Either she fakes it and the Survivor makes the wrong read, or they make the right read and she can start phasing from this point. And again, there is exactly no indication when she starts phasing, yes, there might be an animation, but all videos I have seen showed this under lab conditions - a Survivor staring at a Spirit. No way to tell this reliable in a chase in a public game.
I really, really hope they make changes to Spirit and I am pretty sure that she still will be strong. But I hope they do it right this time and not another half-hearted Nerf which does not change any of the Key problems.
I feel like chases for me as survivor are very hit or miss as spirit. some chases are short due to couple bad reads in a row, others can be very long due to some very imbalanced loops and structures with like 1:30-2 minute chase. survivor's won't be happy with spirit until they can consistently do 2 minute chases vs spirit like they do with every other m1 killer with limited power intervention. Most of the time, when they weaken killers, their changes are overly impactful so much so that they make the killer almost unplayable vs good survivors and than you usually get watered down matchmaking for the killers to compensate the killer being... not amazing. Its usually to target their skill expression so that their skill has no real impact on the match. they did that with Freddy and with Billy.
When they do touch spirit, they won't just change her a "little bit", survivors won't be happy with a "little bit". they'll weaken everything. about her they'll gut her mother daughter ring, her amulet, her father glasses, her green shoes, her base movement speed in phase walk and give a visual/sound cues for when she is phasing. If its not auto-win pilot mode for survivor, than its unfair. Its why killers don't necessary enjoy these "killer changes" even though they're basically inevitable.
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I would say Trapper,Wraith,Hillbilly,Shape,hag,Doctor,Nightmare,Pig,Legion,Ghostface,leatherface are easy.
Huntress,Twins,Blight, Executioner, Clown,Demogorgon, Oni, Spirit, Plague, trickster, Deathslinger are intermediate.
Nurse is hard.
I would say easier killer are knowledge based. Intermediate killers skillshot/hybrid power dependent. hard killers are entirely power reliant and you will not be able to play them at all without optimal mastery of their power.
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I mean its not really surprising that after Freddy that Spirit would be next target. i wonder how much survivors will need to complain about spirit until the next "spirit rework", gutting happens.
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Nothing plays like nurse in DBD.
If there any killer power that is similar to blights, it would be Spirit in the sense that they both get big speed-boosts for short period of time but they do not play the same way nor is their counter-play remotely the same.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YJPOW7bwgs
Ohtofu made a video regarding the problem. its been problem forever in DBD.
The basic problem is that survivor ranking system from rank 2-20 is bronze-silver in skill-level and rank 1 is like gold-challenger level in league of legends. It has never been that killers are too strong or anything like sluzzy suggests, it is that survivors could be like gold-platinum skill level facing a challenger-level killer where there is huge skill discrepancy. It can happen with killer if a player moves to a new killer but usually many killer skills are often shared between killers so its less of a problem as killer ranking system is far more strict.
Remember they use this broken matchmaking and rank system for statistics in balancing(like Freddy/Billy), but how could statistics be creditable when there is such huge variety of survivor skill-levels at red ranks. Its why the game desperately needs MMR and needs to stop using ranks. Ideally they'd need to rework emblem system in relation to the MMR so the player gets some feedback for how well/bad they're doing.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/255132/for-the-love-of-god-buff-clown-please
Legion is worse. But clown is pretty bad.
I feel like I face more legions than I face clowns, it seems nobody plays clown or clown is just really ultra-rare and of the clowns that I have seen, nobody even uses his antidotes, so for a killer that supposedly got a new power, its almost like he never got reworked.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2242520#Comment_2242520
So 36 wins from otz doesn't show he's very usable ? Alrighty then...You realize your argument applies to every character but spirit, nurse, and blight mostly right..?
Is oni strong ? Yeap..But against good teams that deny his first hit for a long time ? Nope...
Is huntress strong ? Yeap..But against good teams that can juke hatchets well..? Nope.
Is deathslinger strong ? Yeap..But against good teams that can break LOS enough to deny hits as long as possible..? Nope.
Is blight strong ? Yes...But against good teams that can juke you and put objects in between you...? Nope
I can go on and on..There's literally only 2 characters that can get their hits at will against GOOD teams. That's spirit and nurse. Blight to an extent but he can be juked and can have objects survivors go around cuck him.
I never said he was not usable. I said he is weak and only beats weak survivor teams. Other killers have ways to mitigate their weaknesses, like yes, an Oni that just chases safe loops will be unable to land a first hit, but he can use perks to mitigate his weakness or understand loop strength from weaker non-chase m1 killers(Like Legion) to earn his first hit. So while Oni has weak early game, he isn't powerless and that goes for all the killers you named.
Trickster really is weak, he does very little damage(16 knives), he is pretty slow movement in throwing mode(this allows you to LOS him easily), survivors have free healing Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe against his power and freely heal over-time passively for any chase that he does not finish with 8 or 16 knives. He has little control very little control over main event, his main event slow hims and he gets self-stun after it is over. Its like some survivor main balanced the killer. He probably has the worst iri add-on ever(Death Throes Compilation ) aka speed limiter for Trickster. Just a mess for a killer.
Its no wonder why playing survivor vs him is laughable.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2242450#Comment_2242450
It was literally the first match I recorded. I can do 100 other games with the same result.
It is bogus stuff. i mean there is people that have like 6000 hours like otz, he tried to do a 50 winstreak and he landed on 36. Not that this means anything because like I said, red ranks are so watered down now and any killer is good when their opponents are not impressive to say the least. Even looking at his kit on paper, He is not very strong and needs some improvements. Its kinda funny how survivor mains think the post is a joke post when Trickster really is that bad vs good teams. good thing there is a lot of survivor players that make him look good.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2241653#Comment_2241653
That's such an easy argument to make. "Oh ThEy WeRe BaD. It PrOvEs NoThInG" I 4k with him WAY more then I have escapes. So you're telling me out of all my matchs. Out of ALL of the red ranks I face. EVERY single one of them is bad ? Ok then. I can literally pin point several spots that match. Where even the best survivors are ######### in that match.
i mean, your face camping hooks and these survivors have finished a total of 1 gen.... in 8 minutes. at the rate that they're going, they'll need about 45 minutes to finish the game and your using this game to prove that trickster is good killer? I am not sure why they balance killers for this level but whatever.
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showing a video of facing bad survivors isn't anything to do with trickster. The average skill-level of Tricksters is like playing vs rank 20 baby nurses in some matches in terms of difficulty in escaping. Winning as trickster relies on facing some really bad survivors in at the chase and at gens. he is weak but no killer is really non-viable with this matchmaking.
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@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2234255#Comment_2234255
What do your 3 teammates have to do with you making decisions to counter a Spirit while she's chasing you? Its not about winning, losing, or even how long you last, its about whether or not your skill as a survivor matters whatsoever.
i think its about how much your skill matters. if one person has 30 second chases vs spirit and another person has 80 second chases vs spirit. clearly the difference between 30 and 80 is 50 seconds in skill. I am not sure how to put it, but survivors have a lot of control vs M1 killers like Legion, Myers etc. and less control vs spirit, deathslinger etc. I think it has to do with the fact that killers that have anti-loop type mechanics create unsafe situations more frequently and these unsafe situations lead to needing to make more reads per match thus you have more room to make an outplay against a survivor and they have more chances to make mistakes which results in hits and eventually downs/hooks.
Its why you can have such long chases on fracture cowshed for example because the average M1 killer doesn't get to use his skill at most loops so their only skill revolves around pressing spacebar to break pallets and holding shift+w in a chase. so In some sense, perfectly safe loops and god pallets/god windows take away the skill from killer where as anti-loop mechanics diminish the skill of survivor. they don't necessary take it away but they weaken it severely. if its perfect anti-loop mechanic like legion's feral frenzy than they completely take away the skill of the survivor instead of diminishing it.
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I had nurse, blight, huntress, spirit, twins, it got first 4 right. Its funny that next killer was Twins because I used to play them but I don't play them anymore since the 5 second decisive strike change for successful power use.
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@GoshJosh said:
I think they should lower the invigorated bottle activation time by half a second, it’s silly when you throw it as far as you can yet don’t get hit by it by the time you go all the way through it.
I mean activation delay should just be removed from yellow bottle. Imagine if purple bottle had activation delay. he does not need rework though. just less of drawback for his new tool.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2229173#Comment_2229173
who says you need to throw knives during the time the survivor is going to that long wall loop? Close the gap as much as possible and start throwing knives when the survivor is at the long part of the loop, and if there's multiple long parts then that just makes things easier.
Don't be scared to abandon chases either, Trickster excels at catching survivors off guard. Its why Monitor is an amazing perk on him, he plays like a sudo stealth killer with it but with a ranged ability. "Well can't you say the same for Deathslinger?" Yes you can, and THATS the issue I have with Trickster at the moment, Deathslinger just out shines Trickster in almost every way while using this play style. But just because he's the worst ranged killer doesn't mean he's the worst killer over all
I mean he moves at 110%, so going around long-wall object is very time consuming. If survivors didn't heal after you threw many blades into them, he would have the ability to stagger health states with his laceration mechanic. something that Deathslinger wouldn't be able to do. He is one of the weaker killers despite being fun to play.
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Its not worth perk slot unless duration is 90 seconds. If you cannot produce long chase, than lose the killer, than it is not worth the perk slot.
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2226754#Comment_2226754
All 4 survivors spawn on seperate gens. We know each gen will take 80 seconds to complete. Killer takes 30 seconds cross mapping and gets in chase. 40 seconds to down since holding w alone adds 20 seconds. 10 seconds to hook. 80 seconds and 3 gens pop. And ya got 1 hook GJ.
I think it depends what generators survivors are working on and what perks the killer has. With ruin, you definitely want survivors spread out and you want regress many generators at the same time. Like the dream scenario is 3 generators 50% being regressed by ruin. Its why Tinkerer+Ruin+Undying was consider very good on Blight. With pop goes weasel, you want survivors to tunnel on a generator so that you can keep pop goes weaseling the same generator. Overall I'd say on weaker teams, you need produce like 6 minute chases which is like 3 long chases, on medium teams, you need to do 2 good chases(usually 1 strong one at the start and one in the middle) and if your team super strong, it is possible to win in a single very long chase assuming the killer plays very badly. I'd say the average is around 2 good chases. you can win the game with like a lot of.... semi-weak chases like 40 second chases if the killer hooks each survivor twice before killing someone but I wouldn't rely on the killer play to win the game.
Its just not very hard to do long chases in most maps with all pallet resources and tiles available with 80 sec gens. Lethal pursuer is for corrupt intervention. a big argument that people say against CI is that you can just hide it out. with this perk, you cannot hide it out but the killer loses 2 perk slots permanently. I just think Whispers is probably a better early game tracking perk than this perk is. It doesn't give as precise information but it stays active for the entire match.
Obviously they'd weaken gen defense perks if they made gens longer. Pop would be like surge with 8%. CI would be like 1 gen blocked or something. Ruin would be like 100%. you wouldn't need to run the same old boring perks every match with killer.
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how fast generators go is dictated by the survivor's skill in a chase and their teamwork and generator optimization. not by where they spawn. I am certain you can have a equally as fast game with every survivor spread out as you can have equally slow game. I have had games where the first 2 gens were prove thyself and someone did a gen solo by the first hook and I have had games where 3 generator pop separately. If someone can find a counter-argument than the theory is already disapproved.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2224265#Comment_2224265
"Like for example, if they say "We will rework backwater swamp art" in august, than it might give perception to the player that it becomes a promise, whereas if they're vague and say "we're working on finishing all map redesigns with no specific dates", than there is no expectation other than it will be finished at some point."
That's why I referenced something like "fall" or "winter" and not a month of the year. IE room for wiggle.
well you should understand their major updates are quarterly and they have 1 minor update between major ones.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2224100#Comment_2224100
Yes I know there was explanations attached with the images in the stream. I was referencing how they were still quite vague and didn't really tell us much or have a timeline for accountability.
In reference to keys we might as well not work on ideas for them as they plan to implement them in an entirely different way of the base game anyway. Unless of course we want to think of ideas for that base game implementation, but I'd say that's not really the topic here so that would probably be a new post to make.
I don't remember them saying anything about the key being in the base game. I am fairly certain the base game was related to Mori. i just remember them saying a small change to keys. i just posted my ideas for what i think would be a good key change. less power in opening the hatch(ending the game early), more power in holding the key. I think they were specific but did not want to write it out in timeline format. I think it has to do with uncertainty in being able to deliver on each change. Like for example, if they say "We will rework backwater swamp art" in august, than it might give perception to the player that it becomes a promise, whereas if they're vague and say "we're working on finishing all map redesigns with no specific dates", than there is no expectation other than it will be finished at some point.
I think that is totally a find approach. I imagine for them, they have a lot on their plate that they want in the game but they cannot do everything, they have to pick and choose what they want to work on. that is just how life works. I personally think they do fantastic job.
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looking at image does not tell you anything. Its because they say it individually what they're working on
Small recap on stream.
They said that newer players struggle with the base starting point of the game so they want revise tutorials and create bot matches. -> First step in the fog.
Game health refers to bugs and existing gameplay updates. Within first years of DBD, they said they focused more on creating content because the goal was to create a rich experience for the player. Now a days, there is a lot of content in the game so they want to improve existing content.
The realm beyond is referencing Visual updates for survivors(We already saw them update Dwight, Meg, Claudette models) and all the maps. There's only few maps remaining so they're almost done with this.
Live design is referencing keys and Mori and new survivor-type of perk(Boon totems). From what i remember on stream, They said they want remove killer offering for Moris and integrate to the base game. They do not want moris to be seen as toxic. Boon perks, they said very little about other than you will see first boon perk next chapter.... which is in 6 months from now? November I think. They also said they want to do small update to the key item in the game. They also recap saying that they will continue to look at existing killer powers and adjust where necessary every few months for new killer/recent killer releases.
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I think keys are ok, I think only problem i have with them currently is survivors opening the hatch before they complete all generators. it can end game prematurely sometimes kinda like old mori. At the same time, the key does not do much beyond opening the hatch and their add-on are kinda tricky to use as the key item has little charges with not many particular great effects for channeling the key. the 3 add-on that you can channel are Blood ember which reveals killer aura in 32 meters, Gold Token which gives 48 meters of Bond(Perk) when channeling the key and Erode token which gives 24 meters of Bond(Perk). The blood ember has a strong effect but you need channel the key to use it in a chase and it is not very intuitive for the player. It also doubles consumption of the key further limits its use. I haven't seen survivors really use tokens purely because if they need aura reading, they'll just run aura reading perks instead.
I think weeding ring has better implementation where you just equip add-on and the effect persists permanently. perhaps they should do that for blood amber, gold token and erode token where you can no longer channel the key but the effects of the add-on for holding the key activate the effects although maybe blood amber would need a lower aura-reading range(like 12 or 16 meters). Maybe they could add other add-ons for the key that give you passive bonus for holding the key. I am not sure... maybe holding the key adds 7% haste effect like the survivor Hope perk. Either way, Keys rarely get used for anything beyond opening the hatch to end the game early when the killer wins convincingly. Less power in opening the hatch and more power on holding the key might a better design direction for the key.
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Holding W in a chase is symptom of two other problems.
1) Safe pallets
2) Health states
I mean one way to fix it is to makes pallets unsafe so killers are not force to break pallets although that's a lot harder when your looking at pallets like shack pallet. Another way is to increase base-pallet breaking speed so its less damaging but there is brutal strength and fire-up...
One of the reason why killers often camp when exit gates are open and 4 survivors are alive is that if a killer hits a healthy survivor, they suffer huge cooldown and survivor gets huge speed boost. its so large that you can go from one side of the map to another. Awhile back, they reduced the speed of healing to weaken self-care, but self-caring was never the problem, it was how powerful speed-boost-slowdown is and how much it wastes time. now a day's healing is very time consuming but is very rewarding. Maybe it would be better if it was less of speed boost but faster healing? not sure.
Either way you can play stronger killers like Spirit or Blight to band aid fix that.
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@Blueberry said:
We basically got told nothing other than their name so we don't really know anything.
boon means advantage. they said its apparently a survivor mechanic instead of a killer mechanic like hex totems and obsession perks. My imagination is that its a perk that a survivor brings and it gives them a bonus if they cleanse it. I am not sure what kind of bonus these are but it could be something like, if you cleanse this "green lit totem", it gives you some kind of advantage like healing speed. They also imply that the perk can have negative disadvantage for not cleansing it, so for example while the totem is not cleansed, survivors who brought the perk is affected by slower healing speeds. I am personally scared of these types of perks because you can create extremely high risk/high reward perks like "grants endurence status effect" but while not cleansed, you are exposed the entire match or "Increases chance to gain skillchecks and add bonus progresssion on generators for skillchecks but while the totem is not cleansed, you are affected by old Hex:Ruin for generators.
I am just curious how these perks will work when killers bring 5 hex perks in a game. there's only 5 totems or will boon totems have separate type of totem spawn for each survivor.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2206947#Comment_2206947
"The loop i am describing is 3:00. I don't know what to really say. its just one those 5 gen chase maps for survivor if you understand how each of the loops connects to one another. he used the pallets in the inverse order."
Yes, and that only sucks if all the survivors are at equal skill. Being able to connect loops near perfectly is tough, especially if the survivor is not already in a chase. What Bubba should have done was leave the chase. As Tru3 himself loves to say "its a 1v4, not a 1v1". That goes both ways. Ignoring 3 survivors, means those survivors will do gens. The killer should have realized Tru3 was injured and not close to a generator, while other survivors were working on gens. He could leave Tru3 and bully someone else instead, yet he didnt.
Being a killer isnt about mindlessly chasing 1 survivor untill they are down, its about micromanaging. Survivors dont have to really deal with micromanaging, instead survivors have to bruteforce their objective.
Again, I agree with Haddonfield needing a change, especially the house of pain, but in 99% of the claims that it needs a full rework, I get footage of killers just having a tunnelvision on a 1v1 and forgetting its a 1v4.
Bubba got a relatively strong pallet, but that pallet is no different from the double car pallets on Autohaven, no different from a T wall with a breakable window. That area is now unsafe, its time to bully other survivors and trick them into going to an unsafe area. Haddonfield isnt as terrible as killermains tend to cry about. It's very powerful and it has its issues, it really punishes killers mistakes while barely punishing survivor mistakes. But I have to repeat again, there are maps that barely punish killer mistakes and heavily punish survivor mistakes aswell. All it means is that a killer has less room for mistakes. Which sucks, sure, but its only 1 out of 2 maps that forces killers to think more about their actions.
Which kinda is an argument of "git gud" I guess, but the same can be said towards survivors who complain about Hawkins.
Because, unless its 1 survivor vs 1 killer, there are still other survivors available. You never, ever, want to chase the strongest survivor first. Nor do you want to ever keep chasing a survivor when gens start flying. These games happen as rarely as 5 gen 4k's happen, and have just as much reason to exist in the game. If 4 survivors die with 5 gens left, survivors screwed up massively. If 0 survivors are hooked with 5 gens done, the killer screwed up massively. Regardless of maps, perks, items or addons being used.
"Yes, and that only sucks if all the survivors are at equal skill. Being able to connect loops near perfectly is tough". Speak for yourself, in my opinion, it is basic survivor skill to be able to connect one loop to another. especially safe loops.
"Being a killer isnt about mindlessly chasing 1 survivor untill they are down, its about micromanaging. Survivors dont have to really deal with micromanaging, instead survivors have to bruteforce their objective."
I understand this, but Haddonfield has many floors, many back alley ways and is quite deceptively large from one side to another. Micro managing many survivors is very difficult when survivors are spilt up. you should try micro managing Haddonfield with bubba or vast majority of killers. I think you'll find it quite challenging. Haddonfield is one of those maps is more in survivor control to lose rather than it is for killer to "out skill".
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I am all for reporting cheaters that use lag switching with No Mither/Soulguard or abnormal killer behavior.
This is game 4vs1 though, If a killer reports 1 survivor, it won't do much where as survivors can report the killer 4 times.
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@Toblerone007 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213254#Comment_2213254
I'd be flaming the hell out of the person that has predropped every good pallet in the map.
The fact a pallet is up makes a killer play a tile differently. It's a swing of pressure when the pallet is down.
I can agree with you that Billy didn't need a nerf (he is still just as powerful just has no instasaw and power management) but I'm sorry it takes zero micromanagement to play Freddy and place traps without any movement penalty. His nerf was coming.
You realise if every killer was spirit level of power. Nobody would play right? Like survivors don't queue up and say to themselves I want to verse Spirit.
Preserving and greeding pallets is something you do against WEAK killers because you can push an advantage against them. Stronger killers force you to use pallets as resource to survive in a chase. They're usually able to hit survivors even when a pallet is down. I disagree that predropping pallets can hurt you. You can test it on maps like "The game" vs like a legion or any M1 killer. I assure you, that the Legion player will never end up breaking every single pallet on the map. Even on lesser dense pallet maps, Its very unlikely to occur unless your team is notoriously slow at doing generators.
As for killers, I used to face freddy everyday or every second day when playing survivor, now I rarely see him. Its same with Billy. Used to face him every 2nd-3rd day, now I rarely see Billy.
I could play devil advocate and say same regards to killer, Killers wouldn't want to play matches knowing they instant lose whenever they face a remotely decent survivor team and yet that is the case for every killer below A-tier. I liked facing old billy, pre-nerf freddy, spirit etc. because those killers punish you for making bad reads/bad plays where as other killers either punish you very slow or cannot punish you because too many of the loops are too safe for you to make any mistakes. It makes the game more interesting. It makes you feel like you earned the escape more.
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@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2213205#Comment_2213205
I’m talking about the video. The dropped pallets in the video were a 50/50 at best. Scott didn’t have better add ons. Why are you talking about hypotheticals? Which leads to my second point:
58 seconds average chase for a strong chasing killer vs a survivor who’s above the top 1% of all players, whilst having several unrealistic artificial advantages in his favour including map selection, limited ad on usage and no perks for the killer, starting at the strongest possible position on the pre-selected map, is not very long at all. And that’s just the average.
Even with these incredibly unrealistic concessions vs. such a high calibre player, several chases were significantly shorter, in fact just as short as they’d be vs. a bad survivor.
Not to mention the fact that dropping so many pallets to extend one chase to a mere 58 seconds is actually countering your own team and losing the game outright, and therefore doesn’t counter Spirit in the slightest of ways, which is what the entire debate is about, not chase time.
How many gems typically get done by the 58 second mark in your games, and do you honestly think you’re going to win from that point with no pallets left?
Killers need to land hits in intervals of 30 seconds to be strong in the first place. A lot of the reason why the game balance breaks for killer at top-level is that most killers are not landing 30 second interval chases because of a lot imbalance loops(like god pallets, safe loops etc.). To put it bluntly, your skill as killer matters very little when your playing weaker killers like legion, clown, trickster(?) etc. you simply don't get the opportunity to mindgame the survivor because the loop has little to no mindgame when survivors plays safe loops perfectly. Its why changes like Billy and Freddy are very much in the wrong direction for when they're doing changes that remove skill-expression from those killers. Killers should strive to be closer to around spirit-level in power. Between the finding survivors, chasing the survivor for 58 seconds and hooking them, its easily around 80 seconds to complete 3 gens. Those pallets are there to get used. The biggest wasted pallet is the pallet that doesn't get used when you walk outside of an exit gate. There is enough pallets on the vast majority of maps that you will never really run out if you use them intelligently.
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@Ghost_Face_Main said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2210988#Comment_2210988
Yeah, it might just be me then. There are the more obvious "less picked" killers that you won't see often, but in my case, Ghost Face is starting to creep into that category.
All I ever see is HuntressSpiritHuntressSpiritHuntressSpi-
I do not like playing him because his stalking is very situational and he get punished very heavily for failing stalks. The ability to stalk is far too opportunistic so much so that a lot of the time, it is better to just hit survivors then stalk them. It makes you feel like your power is only good for 0 TR and not good for his intended instant down mechanic. Hitting survivors in which you failed to completely stalk resets the stalk meter making you lose all your progress and effort into stalking. I'd play more Ghostface if that mechanic if stalking did not reset upon hitting a survivor.
Ghostface in his current form feels too much like M1 killer with water-down power where survivors have too much control and you have very little. Its not very fun so I don't really play him very much. He's like one of my least played killer. I assume others don't find him very fun either. Killers do not like when their power get hard-countered by looking at them with 3rd person camera hence you see very little ghostface.
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well i mean in many chases, he just walked into spirit with no power, like at the shack and he reversed drop pallets when she was not even in phase. maybe he should do what otz did and see if anyone nails a long chase vs her.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2198645#Comment_2198645
"a rng window spawns on top floor and the window does not have a balcony to the side so basically the strategy is to camp the window until the killer goes about 4/5th of staircase up than you just vault the window."
Except that its not really a loop. It's a safe escape at best. But I am guessing you mean the one where the window is opposite to the staircase? That's actually a free hit unless survivors have Balanced Landing.
"garage loop which you tend to predrop the safe pallet on corner, make 2 turns for killer to attain bloodlust 1-2 than you just drop the garage pallet and hard camp pallet."
Ah yes, but this one, you need to actually go for the opposite side of the car, where the wall is small, then all you have to do is show your red light to cause the survivor to vault and quickly turn to get a hit before they can vault back. If you get stuck on one way, you can quickly go back on their second vault to get a hit inside. There is plenty you can do there. A smart survivor would drop the pallet and leave the area, not camp it, because they know killers can get a hit there.
"Its infinity, even at bloodlust 3, you need to break it."
Even ignoring the previous statement and assuming it does need breaking. That doesnt mean that it's an infinite though, like you said, you can break it. If YOU as a killer can do something to reduce looptime, its not an infinite. Some pallets need to be broken, those are what we call safe pallets, but the loop itself isnt that safe untill after the pallet is dropped, survivors still can be hit as long as that pallet isnt dropped. Some pallets wont need to be broken, those are unsafe pallets. Then there are some pallets that are already part of a really strong loop and you want them to be dropped as early on as possible, like Shack pallet. Those pallet, we refer to as god pallets. Are they infinites? No.
"survivors historically always had busted loops on most maps so you just need to get used to it."
I mean, you do realize that it needs to be possible for all 4 survivors to escape, right? If all loops were weak, survivors have no chance on a 4 man escape. Survivors deserve the chance on a 4 man escape as much as killers deserve the chance on an early 4k.
I would considering on drawing these loops in MS paint but i decided against it. there are 6 houses in haddonfield not including Myers house which are completed random in placement. one of the houses is famous house of pain. It usually spawns on top-right corner of the map or middle-left corner of Myers house. 2 of houses feature a unsafe pallet on north side of the house and a closed garage with white walls and a car connected to a wall with a safe pallet. The other 3 houses you can enter. I am not going go in detail on each of these individual houses, but on top floor, there are 8 windows and 4 of them are always open. staircase facing window is one of the windows, its strong window but its weaker one of the two. The window i am thinking of is a window that does not have adjacent balcony and just spawns in the center with no other direction or drop-off point. for the ranged killers, those windows can be infinities if they do not get bloodlust. Those windows are so strong to the point they even counter spirit's phase walk.
The unsafe pallet connected to the houses with a car in one-direction was not the pallet i was describing. I was describing the pallet in the houses you cannot enter. as mentioned at the top, its kinda like a hawkin-type loop where you drop north pallet first, get the killer to bloodlust 1-2 than drop ultra-safe pallet and camp it when the killer is in bloodlust 1-3.
in case you don't understand what i am talking about. i went to find a video of haddonfield.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAgkLqs9Ct0The loop i am describing is 3:00. I don't know what to really say. its just one those 5 gen chase maps for survivor if you understand how each of the loops connects to one another. he used the pallets in the inverse order.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2201613#Comment_2201613
Everyone is saying that he's a Trapper because he is the worst Killer in the game, combine that with the fact that he wasn't allowed to use his power and had literally no perks on which shows that this video is a stupid example to show how survivors are "op." This is also a 1v1 meaning that it's not representative of what would actually happen in a real game. In a real game, survivors aren't gonna drop every single pallet early because that'll just create massive deadzones and set up 3 gens for Killers. This is also on one of the strongest survivor maps in the game but if Otz did a 1v1 on Hawkins or suffocation pit the chase times would be way less. Does that mean Killers are op? No.
i mean its not just trapper. a lot of killers have very limited chases. pig, ghostface, wraith, myers(fast vaulting is not helpful vs these pallets), new weaker freddy, clown, plague without corrupt puke, Oni without demon form, Trickster to some extent, Legion. all these killers towards safe pallets all have to break safe pallets and watch as survivor just runs forward. its like nearly half the cast. whats ironic is that all the most of these killers i just listed are also all the killers that otz ranked between C-D in his tier-list. coincidence? I think not. safe loops are pretty bad design and their remedy which is bloodlust is not very good solution.
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Its strange otz feels like all chases are longer than they are. I guess i exaggerated when i said the chases 5 minutes long but it truly feels like it when your playing killer. I think the aspect to keep in mind is that otz is blood-lusting loops and typically in real games, killers don't go out of their way to bloodlust every chance they get to win a 1vs1, so it ends up being that survivors can more easily preserve loops and distribute hook states to produce many 1-2 minute chases and although the killer is getting hooks, if every chase is 1-2 minutes long, that's between 5-10 minutes to do gens.
i am really curious to what average hawkin chase times would be. i wonder how much average chase time affects survivor escape rate as hawkins had highest kill rate according to stats.
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there is add-on called Diamond Cufflinks, it reveals aura of a survivor when their meter is 1 off from being injured. it can count the hits for you or just do it manually. It wasn't worth add-on slot before and it isn't worth add-on slot now. M1 with 110% was never really worth it. if you succeed, the survivor just messed up.