Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@DemonDaddy said:
Survivor strength is at a peak right now, failure is a result of mistakes and little else.
Yeah I did not understand the post. The post complains about Hex:Ruin and Hex:Devour hope? Like what, devour hope hasn't change in years ever since it came out and Hex:Ruin has been same for long time. Both of the perks are hex perks which can be removed and taken away from the killer.
"killers keep getting buffed while survivors hardly get any buffs"
"The power creep on killers has been pernicious"
For which killers? Freddy changes? Billy changes? the Stridor nerf directed at Spirit? The trickster changes in which they state they want improve him than end up making the killer worse? The clown changes that effectively are same as old clown.
The only killer that improved significantly were Wraith and Leatherface. Technically Doctor but he got reworked. More killers are becoming worse than becoming better.
Tunneling is countered by being good at the chase as survivor. face camping is countered by being efficicient on generators as the killer is not applying any kill pressure on other survivors and instead afk at the hook.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2404931#Comment_2404931
You can choose to use the best perks every match because they are always going to be much more useful than niche perks, or you can choose to use niche perks like blood pact, resurgence, fast track, just because you want to.
It's all about your mindset. If you don't find the game stale playing with meta perks every match, good for you.
Also, can you propose a rational buff to wake up and vigil without making them overpowered but still worth picking over something like dead hard? I'm very interested.
I would say Vigil is to me sounds like a perk that was designed to make exhaustion perks better and long while back, exhaustion perks used to recover in the chase, so having lower exhaustion time would have impact on your ability to use an exhaustion perk a second time in a chase if you ran killer for long time.
current exhaustion pauses when your running and 40 seconds of exhaustion after using exhaustion perk might as well be forever as you are very unlikely to walk for 40 seconds. 32 seconds just means no difference and any number that is not below 5 seconds probably will not make a difference in most cases.
I think an interesting version of Vigil would be that Vigil ignores one instance of exhaustion every 120 seconds. When it is triggered by using an exhaustion perk, Vigil is greyed out for 120 seconds and the exhaustion perk corresponding would be greyed out. This would promote using multiple exhaustion perks in a single survivor build as there is currently no real reason to run more one exhaustion perk currently. It would avoid the problem of being able to use same exhaustion perk in the same chase. Perhaps It would promote creative combos like dead hard+smash-hit or balance landing+sprint burst, Lithe+SB where both perks could be activate in the same chase if condition are met.
Vigil would be able to ignore one instance of blood echo and exhaustion add-ons like exhaust huntress add-on though the perk would go on 120 second cooldown for ignoring exhaustion. Mindbreaker would counter it though as it applies exhaustion continuously.
good DBD perks tends to be perks that have functional useful effect. Wake up functional effect is opening exit gates faster. Its simply not an important statistic. The aura reading aspect for gate is not important as you get notification when the gate are powered. no real change to it would make it worth running over meta perks like dead hard.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2404931#Comment_2404931
Doing all the gens isnt winning, getting out the gate is winning
It takes 20 seconds to open a gate. I doubt 3 extra seconds is like difference between opening a gate or not opening a gate.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2403941#Comment_2403941
Niche perks are good for the game. If every perk was as influential as decisive strike, then the non-meta slaves would be bored. Besides, there's no reasonable way to make a perk like better together as good as decisive strike, simply because of how differently they are designed. You can only make number buffs and small changes to a niche perk unless you actually want the perk to be meta, which would make most probably be stupidly overpowered.
why? Niche perks are often useless and have little to no impact on gameplay. Wake up! is niche perk. It only works after you have won and it has mediocre bonus of opening an exit gate by 15%. It allows opening an exit gate 3 seconds faster. All of Quentin perks are niche. Vigil reduces exhaustion perks by meaningless value 7-8 seconds and has bunch of other pointless effects like blind, hemorrhage and hindered. Why would anyone use any of Quentin useless perks over dead hard?
I bet when they release boon totems, they'll probably useless perks that nobody uses with mediocre effects. Dead hard and BT is about the impact that a perk should have on survivor gameplay. The standard shouldn't be Vigil-level as most of niche perks might as well be playing perk-less.
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@zanark said:
I've just analyzed your video frame by frame at 60fps, and I can say for sure, you didn't have 50ms latency in both instances.
Keep in mind that your latency in the lobby is usually lower than your latency in-game, you can try a game as a survivor and check multiple times this way, you'll see. Also, latency fluctuates all the time but is more stable with a wired connection, it can help if you're using wifi.
Playing at ~50ms myself (I have 39-42ms in lobby), I got hits that were correctly registered and weren't rejected where the survivor dropped the pallet even earlier than what we see in this clip. I rarely see any of my hits rejected.
Old pallets hit validation was Killer-sided, new pallets hit validation is server-sided (not killer-sided, not survivor-sided). It is the most fair system and has to stay. Also, for the further analysys: A pallet drop doesn't stun instantly, after checking multiple clips, it seems to stun about 5 frames (which is equal to ~0.083s or ~83ms) after the animation start (survivor having his arms on the pallet).
The interesting part, the clip analysis:
Chainsaw Hit @ frame 341 (~5.683s in the video)
Pallet animation start @ frame 341 (~5.683s)
Pallet stun @ frame 346 (~5.767s)
Pallet stun happens 83ms after the Hit on Killer's POV, so in this instance: If Killer < 83ms = hit registered while if Killer > 83ms = hit rejected
then:
M1 hit @ frame 2262 (~37.700s)
Pallet animation start @ frame 2263 (~37.717s)
Pallet stun @ frame 2268 (~37.800s)
Pallet stun happens 100ms after the hit on Killer's POV, so in this instance: If Killer < 100ms = hit registered while if Killer > 100ms = hit rejected.
As a conclusion, as seen in the clip, the server received the stun before the hit in both actions, which means you had >83ms on the first hit and >100ms on the 2nd hit, and rejected both hits as intended (the server does it's job correctly). It's as simple as that. You were not robbed of any hit. The false Blood VFX animation from Killer's POV is indeed annoying and I hope they will be able to do something about it, but the new pallet hit validation is fair and has to stay or we'll see people abuse their connections forever. I really hope vaults are coming next.
I play both sides but I'm also a Killer main (70%+ of my games) so I understand it can be frustrating sometimes, and for balancing issues and having it more bearable, maybe the devs could make it so the pallet is stunning the killer 1 frame (17ms) later than right now, so the killer has 1 more frame to have his hit validated before being rejected but all of this really has to stay server-side for fairness for both sides. I also feel that adding servers (especially for eastern europe/middle east but also other regions that can't have a decent enough latency because are too far to the current servers) now that the game has a lot more players and crossplay would make the experience just way better for everyone.
It has nothing to do with latency. This video proves it has nothing to do with latency.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ4fUJrYirAIt seems like the game checks if the pallet is 50% down. If yes, reject hit, if no hit the survivor. Its going be new tech that survivor abuse to get free health states. If they wanted buff smack hit exhaustion perk, they could just make it so that pallets that are thrown by smack hit apply the stun Immediately.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2402061#Comment_2402061
Killers should be strong against 4 survivors hence the 4v1 killers being more well liked (Think blight, billy or oni)
These killers can reasonably pressure 4 survivors and can end chases quick but don’t do it in an uninteractive or unfun way
These are not 4vs1 killers. They are 1vs1 killers. These killers have oppressive 1vs1. Oni in his power is one strongest 1vs1 killers in the game. Same as Blight. Billy used to be one of strongest 1vs1 killers with add-ons. He is still 1vs1 killer now. Just worse than what he was before.
Map pressure is not mobility. Map pressure is ability to paralyze multiple survivors at the same time. Pig's reverse bear traps are 4vs1. Why? When pig downs a survivor and someone complete a generator, the objective no longer becomes 3 people rush gens, one person gets chased, It becomes 1 person searching reverse bear traps, 2 people doing gens and one person getting chased. This results in multiple survivors becoming paralyzed from being able to work on generators.
The blight players that run Tinkerer+Pop+Ruin+Corrupt. Hex:Ruin is 4vs1 perk. How is it 4vs1 perk? Suppose one survivor attempts to complete a generator, they complete a generator up to 70%. Blight with his 1vs1 oppressive during this time wins a chase. He puts survivor on a hook and hears Tinkerer proc. He walks/use blight rush to get to 70% generator and pushes survivor off generator. He has paralyzed one survivor from putting them on a hook, Neutralized generator progression using Hex:Ruin and is now chasing another survivor.
In short, generator defense perks that slow gens down or regress generators are 4vs1 perks. Most killers do not have build-in game slowdown and are not rewarded for hooking. hooking without death does bring a survivor closer to their death, however it takes longer for a killer to chase+hook a survivor than it does survivors to do generators(assuming they are not completely terrible at the chase and m1). As far the game is concerned, everyone being on death hook healthy is same position as the start of the game as nobody getting hooked and everyone being healthy. Killers only get game slowdown when they successfully kill a survivor by any means.
I do not want to go into detail with Old and current freddy before his negative changes, but anti-heal perks are also gen defense perks because healing is an opportunity cost to doing a generator, so if healing take longer and most survivor heal, than it is effectively slowing down generators. so killers like Legion who have low opportunity cost to injure but give you a high opportunity cost to heal also have 4vs1 potential. Anti-heal perks and instant downs go hand in hand with slugging, Slugging also 1vs4 strategy. I do not think I need explain why.
Trickster 1vs1 is weaker blight and definitely weaker than Oni in his power. He can down players at low-wall loop that he can throw over. All ranged killers excel at this. He is good downing people out of position as he does not need wipe his blade when throwing knives but just about all instant down killers are good at this. Almost all instant down killers end up being really good at camping for this reason. Better survivors will not loop ranged trickster at low-wall loops as these loops are favorable to trickster and being in dead zone as survivor is just bad survivor play. Trickster 1vs1 is strong vs bad survivors.
It is unfortunate that content creators show case trickster doing well vs bad survivors as it makes dev believe that they perhaps need to weaken trickster even though trickster is not strong. These events end up stunning growth of killers as it lowers the bar to make killers not stronger then trickster.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2401032#Comment_2401032
What if Clown had 1/2 bottles more by default?
I ask you this specifically because I find the power very fun and instresting, but many times I'd like throwing bottles in the open to shorter the distance they can make, I almost always regret that choice because they almost always still reach a nearer loop, even in the open, and I won't have 4 full bottles to have a guaranteed hit at a loop and will have to reload later, maybe in a place where if I reload they can leave the loop again.
Imo 1/2 more bottles would relief a lot of stress for not having to conserve every single bottle like gold
there is add-on for 1/2 bottles extra. one of them is yellow called sticky soda bottle. Cheap gin bottle is purple add-on and it adds +2. The issue is not the number of bottles. Its not being able to time speed boost knowing it would result in a hit. right now its just have large amount of foresight on the survivors movement so much so that it ends up being blind guessing and because its blind guessing, it means that a lot of clown yellow bottles are wasted bottles. This is why he feels like he lacks of ammo when in reality, he does not lack ammo, he lacks reliability and consistently to make accurate decisions with yellow bottle.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
Buff the addons, no rework required
what do you mean, they just weakened his add-on like 1 month ago. He is unlikely to get any changes. He does not get played because he is barely passable as average middle of the road killer. Judging from last 2 killers releases, I think they forgot how to make strong killers.
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@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2400640#Comment_2400640
Action speed debuff. If two people are in swf, those two suffer action speed debuff of 15% on healing and repair. If its 3 or 4 people, than 3 or 4 people suffer the action debuff.
That will also affect solo survivors who happen to be in a lobby with SWF.
obviously. it is swf game/lobby. don't worry, this was not interesting. Nerf freddy was more important.
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@MeltingPenguins said:
How WOULD you 'nerf' swfs to make things 'fair'?
Because you can't know if people are actually on call. BHVR has no way of actually checking if a call is active AND who is in it.
Action speed debuff. If two people are in swf, those two suffer action speed debuff of 15% on healing and repair. If its 3 or 4 people, than 3 or 4 people suffer the action debuff.
The biggest issue with swf is that they complete objective way faster than solo because they get many information perks for free to optimize healing & repair. The chases are about the same and rely on individual skill-level. In the end, SWF is just power-trip for survivor. A power-trip that is forbidden to talk about and that killers just have to get good.
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I think Almo at one point was facing hex:lullaby Doctor and the skill-checks were way hard for him so he weaken lullaby so it does not work with snap out. I did challenge yesterday and 2nd game was doctor, so i had to do the glyph in madness 2. I did both of them in 1 shot, so it was easy.
Its probably too hard for him and new players like rank 15-20 will find challenge near impossible. So no, I do not think these skill-checks should be added to the base game especially on doctor. It would be nice if skill-check got harder the higher rank you are. rank 1 survivor should be able to easily do these skill-checks flawlessly. The basic skill-checks are really made for rank 5-20 and they should remain that way. it would be nice if rank 1 survivors had to do these harder skill checks for generators for some actual challenge.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2396672#Comment_2396672
Ugh... you really don’t get it at all do you...
Fine.. let everything be killer sided, screw balance, let’s not bother learning how to properly, and skillfully use a killer’s power.
I’m over this conversation. Clown is balanced and fair in his current state, and it’s easy to get great value out of his Antidote when it’s used PROPERLY. My mind can’t be changed on this.
"Just throw a bottle at a survivor and it'll be yellow by the time you get there, then stab em up"
"That's not going to work due to 2 likely outcomes:
- The survivor is too close for you to get off the timing of the gas activation, you'll only score a regular hit.
- The survivor has taken a whole different path after you've forced yourself to walk into your own gas-cloud while struggling to catch up just for the effect wear off."
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perhaps if you can give an example for how you avoid these two particular problems within clown's yellow bottle than I will agree clown's yellow bottle is skillful to use. Skillful powers occur when the killer has control of his own power and the survivor has meaningful right/wrong options in a chase. Currently clown lacks control over when he gets his speed-up because he has to throw it so far away that it gives survivor plenty of time to keep running forwards because speed-up is not significant enough to matter or to change routing to make it not matter. How could this bottle be skillful to use if its entirely on survivor to have bad routing for its effects to be effective?
Try to provide counter-example to both of these problems that would resolve in clown gaining an advantage that does not revolve around survivor making a routing error.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2396492#Comment_2396492
How can you, with a Clown profile picture, really not see how unbalanced it would be if Clown had free reign to combine Invigorated & Intoxicated because Clown if doesn’t need to worry about giving any benefit to survivors?!
reverse question: how would you feel if purple gas also affected clown and slowed him down when he walks through it. This is kinda what yellow gas is right now. it hurts more than helps. bad design.
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I would say that a strong killer is fun to play against IF you accept/enjoy losing to the killer as survivor.
Survivors genuinely hate losing and strong killers prove to be a challenge to defeat which embolden their hatred towards that killer.
I think I would say same for killer, you will find losing less painful if you believe that the reason you lost was because you played bad.
This is often not the case...... for weaker killers because a lot of the time, the classic pre-drop pallets, hold W and dead hard in loops is often not counterable for large majority of the cast, fast gens end up being out of your control.
these days though, I'd say you end up fighting against your own killer power more so than survivors. stuff like billy overheat, nemesis infection system, no sound/footsteps spirit vs Iron will, clown yellow bottles and so on.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2396350#Comment_2396350
All this shows is how extremely inefficient yellow bottles are compared to regular purple ones which work immediately and are far more practical to use. Yellow bottles are borderline unusable in their current state and require extreme foresight AND survivor incompetence to get their effect off in a meaningful way.
I would say from practical perceptive, yellow gas is only really reliable in two instances. If survivor do not drop pallet, you can yellow gas one side and purple gas other side and when your breaking a pallet, the delay of breaking pallet lines up with delay of the gas.
I mean there is no point arguing. I think Almo said intentional use of these bottles was something like to throw it next to the survivor and make them change their routing so you can hit them? Something like that. I have not seen anyone do that. The yellow bottles being borderline not usable is killer problem and nobody cares about killer problems.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2395858#Comment_2395858
I’ve mained Clown a long time. It’s necessary for the Antidote to have a risk because if Clown invigorates himself and quickly intoxicates a survivor, it’s incredibly strong. If the Antidote didn’t have a risk in using it (curing survivors of intoxication and buffing then with invigorated), Clown would be a broken overpowered mess.
well seems like 28 players agree with OP thread. Its still pretty hilarious as survivor getting free speed ups while playing vs clown.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2394240#Comment_2394240
He has a 3 second reload and a potential 7 bottles. If you ran both capacity add ons he would mindlessly do the same thing every loops and would get a guaranteed hit at all but the most safe tiles.
Once you learn when to use them they become very useful and a big part of his kit
He is suppose to be strong at the chase. I do actually use yellow bottles and I actually do use ammo capacity add-ons, I am just saying that they're ineffective vs strong survivors and safe loops. Instant activation is exactly what it needs to be universal useful, right now its just random whether the survivor goes what you want him to go to take advantage of the effect or not.
Some say that these bottles should have seperate ammo capacitiy, but a better solution would be to remove yellow bottle and just make it so that clown gains speed when walking through purple gas and survivor is hindered when they touch the purple gas, though in my opinion, this would actually make the ability braindead to use and I kinda like the timing and ammo management to his power(even though this would effectively remove this aspect altogether) for what some people are asking with separate ammo change.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2394240#Comment_2394240
I’ve played Clown since his release, and extensively since the addition of The Antidote. I know what I’m talking about. Successfully setting up Clown being invigorated and then quickly intoxicating a survivor pretty much guaranteed there’s little the survivor can do (or reach) in time to avoid being hit. Survivors can’t even DH away from Clown in time before either effect wears off.
The activation delay helps balance around the need to properly plan/set this up so that Clown can’t just do this brainlessly whenever he wants.
well it didn't look 100% hit from survivor side of gameplay though i hardly face clown.... until now. you can dead hard away, you dead hard before purple bottle lands on floor and explodes. Its not brainless to time abilities and measure distances....
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2392246#Comment_2392246
Sure there is: balance. As it stands Invigorating yourself, switching bottles, and THEN almost immediately Intoxicating a survivor is extremely powerful in a chase. It’s pretty much a 100% guaranteed hit or guaranteed down.
Therefore, for the sake of balance, there needs to be a preventative measure to not have Clown spam this set up in every conceivable circumstance by creating some risk: Survivors can ALSO Invigorate themselves, and cure themselves of intoxication.
With this in mind, keeping things balanced to ensure that Clown has to PLAN how to Invigorate himself before Intoxicating a survivor (or vice versa), conversely The Afterpiece Antidote is further balanced to ensure Clown players aren’t needlessly, and frustratingly accidentally invigorating survivors by adding in an activation delay.
It’s imperative to change ones thinking in order to take advantage of the Antidote. You can’t use them the same as Tonics. They’re to be placed ahead of Clown so that he doesn’t accidentally Invigorate survivors, and so they’re active by the time Clown reaches them.
OR... the 2.5 seconds can be used to switch to the Tonic and plan where THAT will be thrown, rather than wasting some of the Invigorated effect trying to do this with Tonics.
Its not 100% hit. the clown requires timing and precision to utilize both bottles effectively. I have been getting a lot of clowns recently and I have honestly never seen clowns use yellow bottles until now.
The prevent measure for spamming bottles is reloading and limited bottle count as it has opportunity cost from purple bottles.
If the goal of current yellow bottles was to never see the ability get used... than its right on mark in its current iteration. we're only seeing a post like this purely because of archives.... challenges.
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@Northener1907 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2392439#Comment_2392439
Because they all are weak killers? They deserves buffs.
trickster already got his changes... its just sad that to get 2 buffs, he had to receive.... like 3 major nerfs. I have same experience as you vising him. BVHR is afraid of strong killers. it is what it is.
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Maybe its addressing systemic consistency? whatever that means.
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@gatsby said:
It’s also the handedness of his throws. He never throws directly in the center its either slightly right or slightly left... which gets worse and worse the farther the Survivor gets.
than you have some saying "Yeah just get better at aiming" you should land 44/44 knives with no error. right....
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2392469#Comment_2392469
"when has animation locking yourself.... i.e standing still ever been a good strategy for facing ranged killers."
Going through a window or over a pallet to increase distance can be the difference between a 20 second chase and a 100 second chase. So yeah, good strategy.
"What do you mean he is different killer?"
He's no longer mainly spam. He has access to spam when he needs it, but you're highly underestimating him if you're using him to consistently spam. That's like playing T1 Myers and committing to chases. They have the same basekit, but they play differently.
"your even suggesting to run add-ons that increase his ammo capacity which showcases a problem in his base-kit"
Newsflash: Killer basekits are balanced around addons, addons arent balanced around the basekit.
"as for suggesting of running arguably one of the worst killer perks in distressing"
Distressing is quite good in combination with infectious, especially with ranged killers if you decide to run Infectious. Trickster already has a very soft TR, players dont realize they are inside the TR. Since Trickster's Main Event works best with as many known survivor locations that are close, IF makes sense, since you can down people outside of chase with Trickster, Distressing compliments the perk.
"if all survivor are skilled at the chase and understand how to play around his power, slugging with him shouldn't really be effective with infectious fright."
Only if you're bad and dedicate to a chase when you know someone is going for a pick-up. Trickster is better at punishing a pick up than Huntress is.
"hopefully BVHR one day is not so scared to release good killers with solid base-kit with add-ons that only add to killer experience."
Again, they wont, because they design basekits around addons. Addons are part of the game. There is a reason why addonless killers have been a thing of the past or the extremely skilled.
"Going through a window or over a pallet to increase distance can be the difference between a 20 second chase and a 100 second chase. So yeah, good strategy."
Very much... no. If you ask killers that play ranged killers the question: What are easiest shots to hit? Their likely reply is survivors animation lock themselves. The second answer being survivors that run in perfect straight line. Why? Its because vaulting windows and dropping pallets is literally standing-still for survivor. Its really easy for ranged killer to capitalize on this stuff.
I am not saying that you should never vault windows or drop pallets but a lot of weight of these killers revolves juking their ranged attack and holding W, putting objectives between you in the killer(otherwise you'll have to be making reads every 5 seconds).
Just to illustrate how strong holding W is vs these slow killers and how much they rely on their ranged ability. Have you ever played Midwitch elementary school where your ahead of the huntress player 25 meters on other side of hallway and she choose to follow you? It will take her like 6 loops or something for her to catch up to you because of how slow she is and that apply to all of those slow killers that ability reliant. Its also no surprise that hardest shots for these ranged killers are... long distance shots.
"He's no longer mainly spam. He has access to spam when he needs it"
Yeah what kind of broken logic is this? Killers already have time trouble issues vs very optimized generators and last thing they need is "restraints" and build in slowdown to their own gameplay. Its funny because this comment is very reminiscent to how survivors always say to killers "Your making too many mistakes, your chases are too long, bad gen pressure etc.". Well having limited amount of knives certainly anyone's gen pressure.
"Newsflash: Killer basekits are balanced around addons, addons arent balanced around the basekit."
Add-on are.... suppose to add the killer strength, the killer should function and be somewhat effective in their base-kit. Blight doesn't need add-ons to properly use his blight rush, Blight rush is good without add-on and add-on add to his strength. Your previous comment is like saying blight should have 25 second cooldown his rush and I go in say "Blight is different killer now, he is no longer based on spamming charge, he has his charge/speed when he needs it', "Just run add-on that reduces cooldown to back to 10 seconds. I think you should see the point for why previous argument and needing add-on to mitigate drawbacks is stupid. It destroys point of having add-ons in the first place.
"Distressing is quite good":
Distressing is never a good perk. It just gives survivor more time to shift+W in most situations. Monitor is superior choice to combine with infectious however Trickster TR has been nerfed to be a lullaby so he does not get benefits from having lower TR, Only higher TR for Infectious which given his lower m/s is fine without extension.
"Only if you're bad and dedicate to a chase when you know someone is going for a pick-up. Trickster is better at punishing a pick up than Huntress is."
Do not agree, I think both of them have merits to slugging and can be good at it, Huntress being a little bit better at it in my opinion. This isn't about being bad, Its about stating that killers success revolves around survivor mistakes excluding some exceptional killers(Nurse)
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2391811#Comment_2391811
I mean, I really disagree, having to hit 6 knives only with being able to hit 4 knives during a vault(5 if you're at full speed) is quite nutty. Sure, you'd still have to hit 2 more knives than a huntress hatchet, but you can also deal the injuring knive at the start of the vault, meaning you only need 3 more for a down. That's when you start spamming knives.
And no, Trickster isnt a spam based killer anymore. Too few knives. If he was spam based, his spread would widen the faster he goes, which isnt the case.
And yeah, if you play any killer badly, you can be looped for 5 gens unless you brute force m1 mode. He has a higher skill floor than huntress, but he also has a wider skill ceiling, where he shares skills with deathslinger and huntress.
People need to realize Trickster is now a different type of killer. If you still assume he's played like his old version, you're going to have a bad time as you're missing 3 knives per inventory. Slap on Death Throes and Bloody Boa with Infectious Fright and Distressing, then you'll see why he has been changed from the PTB.
when has animation locking yourself.... i.e standing still ever been a good strategy for facing ranged killers.
Is it good pyramid? no, Deathslinger? nope, huntress? no..so why in the world would this be a good idea vs trickster. survivor get away with a lot of bad plays and this is one of them.
What do you mean he is different killer? he just has old base-kit melodious murder add-on for free in exchange.... for virtually almost every other aspect of his kit being worse. What exactly are you doing with his knives, throwing 1 knife and pausing? he is still spam based, your even suggesting to run add-ons that increase his ammo capacity which showcases a problem in his base-kit. As for suggesting of running arguably one of the worst killer perks in distressing, I think I will pass. if all survivor are skilled at the chase and understand how to play around his power, slugging with him shouldn't really be effective with infectious fright.
oh well, lost cause. hopefully BVHR one day is not so scared to release good killers with solid base-kit with add-ons that only add to killer experience.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2391677#Comment_2391677
Before his buff, yeah, he needed much more time than huntress. After his buff? He can literally down 2 people before Huntress can down 1.
People spamming too much with his blades are people who dont understand his power. You can throw knives where other killers have to mindgame. You can deal damage states where no other killer could. People not using Trickster's power to their advantage and calling him too weak, is like people playing Nurse who dont blink untill they see a survivor and then complain Nurse is too slow.
Trickster isnt the strongest killer, but he is more than viable enough to carry his own ass.
sure, if the survivors are like hugging each other. that is like saying leatherface can down entire team in one chainsaw. The survivor have to be severely outposition to let this occur and make some pretty poor gameplay decisions.
I cannot say I really agree with this statement as a huntress has fairly short cooldown between m2->1 and it is almost an instant down. Moral of story is that many killers thrive on survivor being out of position and this has almost nothing to do with killer gameplay and everything to do survivor.
In accordance to @gatsby post, Trickster is still very much spam based more align with plague rather the more precise Deathslinger/Huntress. He will never be a very precise killer and he was never really designed to be precise. He is simply worse at his spam than he was previously. It seems more like he get punished regardless if the player is playing him well or not. If your playing him badly, he's legit possible to 5 gen chase with laceration mechanics and constant reloading(Solo-queue survivor experience). If your playing him well, you'll get 1 down per locker reload and lose to gen speed/poor map pressure vs strong survivor team(This is my experience from playing him).
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Been saying that for clown ever since he got his rework. activation delay makes those yellow bottles worthless ability for clown.
I got on first game with clown. you'll get it eventually.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2388690#Comment_2388690
If he was a free escape, you werent good enough at playing him. A huntress constantly having her hatchet raised all match will be a free escape too. So will a Trickster who keeps his knives raised too long. I'd agree with you that he wasnt consistent at 4k's, but 1 person escaping isnt a free escape. A killer being a free escape is all 4 survivors escaping, consistently.
Most of the games that I've played as survivor vs Trickster have not been close games. they've been typical 3 man escapes /4 man escapes and some of tricksters have been.... red rank. personally I feel like you can 1vs1 trickster fairly easily. Most of them seem to run out of blades mid-chase giving you big distance in chases. its fairly easy to heal with laceration meter in combination of tall loops and Los breaks.
I am not sure what your trying to say in regard huntress vs trickster comparison however trickster does on average need more time to deal health state of damage and therefore will have his blades held up longer where as huntress just needs razor thin windows of opportunity to throw and land full health state of damage with very fair ease of use. strong huntress players are pretty challenging to go against.... trickster... not so much.
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@Mulrian said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2391229#Comment_2391229
- Huntress hatchets are much easier to land because you're throwing bathtubs with a lot of time to aim each one. Trickster is throwing needles in rapid succession with recoil and alternating side offsets. He's going to miss a lot.
- Huntress hatchets are just stronger because they actually do damage. She finds two good angles in a chase and she wins it. Trickster can get an angle five times and still not do damage because of how abysmal laceration decay is right now.
Too bad nobody understand this.
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@OtzEnjoyer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2391123#Comment_2391123
You can still just aim normally too and if you really wanna be a sweaty, it's great for camping/tunneling.
I mean whole point of the add-on is to hit a knives, have it go through survivor and than hit floor for 150% damage. He had add-on in beta version called trick blades where you could throw knives on floor to bounce off into the survivor for 2x damage and he was still rubbish even with that. Not aiming at floor with those add-on is waste of add-on slots. Its just gimmick stuff for PTB-trash survivors that run in straight line to make trickster look like he is instantly downing survivors.
Besides, instant downs killers such as Leatherface, Billy, infinity EV3 myers so on are better at camping than he is and main event gives you all firepower you need to ever camp without ever really needing add-ons.
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@chapizwow said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2386822#Comment_2386822
it's not just with iron will... while phasing you can't hear footsteps from anyone. This wasn't in the patch and as a "bug" that already existed during PTB, BHVR knew about it... which makes me wonder, wether was implemented as a silent nerf, a test nerf or is just a bug and will fixed in like 1-2 months and we'll have to deal with it meanwhile.
Its probably part of spirit's new balance along with Stridor with sound adjustments. I like how freddy snare nerfs are labelled as bug fixes.
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@OtzEnjoyer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2390983#Comment_2390983
Maybe in a year he'll get changed...but the devs listened to timmys and streamers who cried because they saw other timmys eat ######### on the ptb.
Also amazes me that Cut thru you and the album purple add-ons where left unchanged. That combo might as well be his rat liver now.
I think its overrated add-on combination because you need aim at the feet. It is only plausible when your pointblank near survivor. I think the way to play trickster is to just run iri photocard . He is just so unfun to play now that I think rather just drop him until he goes back to his PTB form.
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@OtzEnjoyer said:
He's definitely more unfun since the "buff".
PTB trickster was fine and I wish they let that version be tested on live, instead of just catering to streamers and others crying about how "op" he was.
The biggest thing that hurts him is the laceration change, good survivors will just make use of LOS and then you get to watch all the work you did disappear.
PTB version of trickster was really good. their last minute changes to throwing rate and reduction of knives pretty much destroyed character. he feels like worse smg that get punished for playing the game because of lack of ammo.
Its sad, everyone overreacted to his changes as he was going to be decent killer, not too strong or under-powered, just right on the marker. they had to mess it up. classic. Hopefully it get reverted... some day...
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2388734#Comment_2388734
I mean, you COULD use it to your advantage, but not in the way you think.
Daddy Otz did something like this in the beginning of this video:
The post is not talking about scoot surfing which is what Otz is showing. OP is talking about sliding when you are looking straight into an object. Its super annoying, I've actually slide off an entire loop while just trying bump once to break a pallet.....
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@Pulsar said:
I've found that it is exceedingly difficult as well.
Barrel-stuffing them seems to work decently well. Also, whenever they are locked into an animation.
What do you mean, he is like old legion you said. he has no counter-play and should be 100% auto winning every chase without any effort with an easy 4k.
Oh right, the controller guy that has barely/never trickster with comments on trickster balance. of course
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2386793#Comment_2386793
Trickster was never a free escape though. Not in solo queue.
even in solo-queue he was free escape. He is arguably still free escape for different reasons now.
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@gatsby said:
Honestly, I'd be happy with a revert and blades no longer decaying in chase at this point.
I mean there is add-on called ripper brace that increases decay meter..... my problem is with these 44 knives.....even using both add-on does not get you back to old 60. Even Dowsey agrees that this ammo change is really bad and he was running out of knives in mid chase.
I do not think I have ever been hurt by decay meter but this ammo problem so problematic. please revert base-kit ammo changes : (
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2388170#Comment_2388170
It’s most definitely not intentional. No one killer is exempt from hearing standard and expected survivor sounds. It would be in the patch notes AND updated in Yamaoka Haunting’s tool tip.
It is definitely intentional as footstep sounds are normal outside phase walk just like Stridor changes are intentional spirit nerf. Let's be realistic, Stridor isn't a meta perk for killer and was only used on Spirit. It was like that in PTB as well.
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@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2387026#Comment_2387026
Yup, you hit the nail on the head. You could loop him for a while but no matter what you did he would eventually down you.
There is nothing even remotely close between Trickster and Legion. I have looped trickster for 5 generators. There is nothing even remotely similar towards their powers. Legion feral frenzy is moves extremely fast, vaults extremely fast and uses M1(an Unavoidable attack) to apply deep wound in which he moon walked to get unavoidable downs. Legion to this day in feral frenzy still has no counter-play for injuries, He just cannot down players which is why he is not complained about.
Trickster never uses m1, moves extremely slow and his method of attacking is using projectile weapon which you can realistically juke/dodge knives. you just suck at looping and the chase. Projectile killers are among the most healthy designs in DBD.
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@gatsby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2387001#Comment_2387001
Not quite. On Trickster's best maps, the extra blade is almost irrelevant cause the Survivor was going down regardless it maybe just saves a few seconds. On Trickster's worst maps, the laceration decay is so bad there's no point in attempting his power anymore.
throwing speed is counter-intuitive change to less blades to down. so in the end, he became worse. Not to mention that now he has to reload..... every single time he downs a single person.
So in the end, they manage to.... nerf spirit to ground like survivor bias main asked for and not even make trickster average....
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/268445/do-you-have-your-nerf-trickster-post-ready
he downs people props the quickest ive seen other than with save the best for last, the taking 2 less blades part is kinda busted, the rest of his buffs are better, instead they should of buffed his 1v4 not his 1v1 hes now the most annoying killer to go against
1vs4 buffs do not really exist with killers though. 1vs4 is like freddy old swing chain add-on, it means you get stronger, the more survivors are alive which is kinda what thanatophobia and no... mobility is not 4vs1 potential, spirit & blight have mobility with phase walk/rush but its still 1vs1 centered.
Conclusively speaking, every killer is 1vs1 oriented and trickster 1vs1 is depends on tricksters aim and survivors movement in combination with blocking LOS so he has less chances to throw. He can be looped/1vs1 and was never like old legion.
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@DemonDaddy said:
Killer emblems practically force you into higher ranks as long as you do more than stand still( I reached 9 without using hooks). Other than that a lot of players switch to survivor once they leave the stress free matching.
Haven't seen a killer lower than purple in a long time, though I enjoy facing the high ranks more anyway. The game feels better when you know gimmicks are not an option.
haha, me too. the survivor games super interesting now though my killer games have been some of toughest games to win in long while, often getting 6-7 hooks and losing or barely winning at 0/1 gen with near perfect play. I wonder if MMR is on or something. If it is. its certainly very... accurate.
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@Lordofweed said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2383717#Comment_2383717
Please read the whole Text. Please look closer at the example of the Matchmaking:
Survivor A : 976
Survivor B: 1100
Survior C: 734
Survivor D: 1490
Killer: 1075
The Killer has 1075 MMR so this represents his Skill level. Survivor D has a MMR of 1490 which is a massive difference in Game knowledge, experience and Skill Level! A Survivor with its strength, can make the difference, even though the Survivor Team is seen as Balanced for the Matchmaker. In fact it is not balanced at all. The Killer cant know which Survivor is good or not and Time is everything in DBD. Also Survivor C will get heavily overwhealmed by the experience of the Killer. This will lead to a total chaotic Match if this example Match goes live.
No it is not really chaotic match. it would be a killer sided match
A team with:
Survivor A: 976
Survivor B: 1100
Survivor C: 734
Survivor D: 1490
Because DBD is team based game., this does not equal 1075 MMR team. This 734 MMR team. The reason being is that killer will chase survivors and realize that survivor D is far stronger then rest and Survivor C is 734 so he will just target 734 player because survivor C probably doesn't know where pallets are in a chase and will be easy to defeat in a chase. so player C and A will just die fast and survivor D/B will be playing 2 vs 1 in ~4 minutes
When they create MMR for survivor, the team members need have same number. if killer has like 1000 MMR, survivors need be between 900-1100 MMR. Ignoring SWF that can usually organize in such a way that stronger player always goes first.
It is extremely rare that a high mmr player can solo carry a team. It can happen on very strong maps vs weaker killers because... take for example haddonfield, if killer finds survivor D right away but does not find out about survivor C and A that they're weak players(he does not find in the match) than player D can solo carry match if the killer is very weak and decides to chase survivor D in the for the entire match as survivor C/A do generators.
The other important note is that if a killer skill-level reaches certain threshold on a powerful killer like killer MMR is 1300. If that player plays Nurse or Spirit at 1300 MMR level, he will not notice skill-difference between survivors in a chase because both the 1490 player and 1100 can go down in 30 seconds just as fast as 734 & 978 player would. so from killer perceptive, if the killer is strong, he cannot really tell difference individual in chase between strong player and weaker player. The only aspect he can tell is if the team is fast at generator or slow at generators in term of overall team strength.
problem 2 and problem 3 seem like excuses. deranking/purposely playing weak killers will just result in you losing. its almost practical waste of time because you'll just go back to high MMR very rapidly in like 3 matches when you pick up your game. The whole point of ranking systems is to have equally skilled matches so if your good than you will have sweaty matches. Part of gratitude of playing DBD is ecaping the impossible(as survivor) and beating strong teams as killer. The irony behind killer is.... that 80% of killers have no chance to win due to being weak and irony behind survivor is that many of killers are auto-wins when your team is equally skilled(no challenge). so survivor end up being a relaxing experience.... where as killer end up being frustrating/defeated experience due to lack of possiability to win certain teams.
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your playing him alright. he is not very strong. pallet break on shred is too slow even with the add-on. I just run classic build when the killer is weak. BBQ/Ruin/Noed/STBFL. Hope that either Ruin or NOED or 8 stacks of STBFL carry you.
He doesn't need chase perks really as shred already breaks pallets and his shred plays windows for you. Information is rarely needed on him as portals tell you where survivors are +general game-sense. Stealth perks aren't useful as demo is super loud. and constantly gives information of his location throughout entire match.
Nobody really play demo. he's probably as rare as facing plague/hag/clown.
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@WexlerWendigo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2377523#Comment_2377523
Smash hit will make killers give up on you more than any other exhaustion perk. Just need practise at stunning, faking dropping the pallet helps a lot.
good luck doing that vs many of popular selected killers.
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@WexlerWendigo Why is smack down underrated? I tried using it and than realize... that half killers are in fact really hard to stun. I just kept facing Nurse, Spirit, Deathslinger, Huntress,Doctor and a lot of finicky killers like Bubba... Blight.... Pyramid head and its like.... man how do I will ever stun any of these guys.
sure eventually you'll get an m1 killer like trapper, billy, myers legion but its like..... you never needed smack down to beat these killers. I would say its win-more exhaustion perk from my experience of using it for like 30 games.
I'd say underrated exhaustion perk is probably head on+quick quiet. I think its good perk combination because you do normal window looping until the killer gets like bloodlust 1 and than if you turn a corner where the killer loses line of sight, you can jump into a locker and often killers do this really strange behavior where they tend to walk past locker for like 2 seconds, than turn back realizing your in locker and than you just head on them. The stun+loss of sight makes killer lose bloodlust and sometimes, you end up preserving strong pallets.
I think its under utilized... but its not hard to see why when you have options like Dead Hard...
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2375733#Comment_2375733
Deal with it how? Nothing can be done against survivors that can’t be hit for extended periods of time.
I enjoy playing vs good survivors. Its good challenge. The only aspect that isn't too thrilling is that you'll never pip vs them, only black pip assuming your playing above average killers. if anything, it would be nice if all matches were worthy opponents. Most of the time as killer, you tend to face a bunch of purple ranks that struggle with base killers or like 1-2 good survivors with rest being weak links.
your just finding the matches impossible because you decided to main worst killer in the game in clown.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2371280#Comment_2371280
Oh, yeah I'd actually classify those Badham Pallets as Breakable "Walls", Survivors can LoS around corners with their 3rd person camera and get enough info for no mind-games and it's literally a corridor, but I'd classify Shack/classic Jungle-gyms as Mind-game pallets. Safe if you don't know how to mind-game (Added difficulty with their Windows).
With the current speeds it's entirely possible to chain loops infinitely with the inclusion of mind-games (Feels great if you pull it off), which is kind of why there's bloodlust for Killers if the Survivors leave loops from a successful mind-game instead of using up the resources there.
what.. the car loops outside of badham are unsafe. No clue what your talking about with breakable walls. The regular jungle gyms and shack pallet are not possible to mindgame with traditional 115% m/s killers I.e you will not get hits at these pallets vs any survivor that has basic understanding of looping when the pallet is dropped.
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@[Deleted User] said:
The hell is a safe and an unsafe pallet nowadays?
For me (Assuming pure M1 Killer)
Safe Pallet: No matter which way you loop it, the Killer has to hold W until the Survivor drops it (EG: Some Coal Tower Loops) and the Survivor has full visibility of the Killer. This can be for multiple loops based on the maximum distance from the farthest edge of the longest loop to the pallet point and the distance gained from the Survivor due to their smaller hitbox while hugging the loop.
Safe/Unsafe Pallet = Killer has to Hold W till the Survivor drops it if the Survivor is running the safe edge (EG: Badham Car+Cinderblock, Car side). But depending on angle of approach the loop is either safe or unsafe (Cinderblock side)
Unsafe Pallet = It will take the Killer only about 1-loop on either side to catch the Survivor regardless of angle of approach. If the Killer is too close you need to pre-drop it or get hit. (See some of the Suffocation pit loops)
Mind-game Pallet = Killer has to mind-game/Moonwalk around a Tall object that does not allow LoS which can force the Survivor to drop the pallet early if they didn't make the call correctly, or get hit. typical of most jungle gyms. (and see Midwich's Library loops)
Trash Pallet = total visibility of each Player, all loops around the Pallet are unsafe and the Killer can use the Momentum and reach of a Lunge to "moon-dash" back to the correct side based on angle of approach. Even if you pre-drop these you're going to get hit, need to stun the Killer.
Edit:
Oh right, I forgot: Breakable Walls v0.1
A Pallet that exists in the middle of a corridor. It must be Broken, but only after a Survivor drops it.
a safe pallet is pallet that survivor can camp and that killer is never in distance to lunge to get a hit and if the killer rotates the pallet, they tend to be bloodlust 3 infinity. examples..... Badham pallet underneath, Shack, single Long-wall short wall Pallets, classic jungle gyms. Basically if you can camp it and react to killer going on either side than its safe pallet. I tend to just draw an invisible red line in my head on the floor and if the killer crosses it, you vault.
filler pallets can also be safe pallets such as azeroth resting place with double truck loops, the crane pallet on ormond/azeroth, the huge hay stack loops in coldwind farm on edge of the map and many others. its like 60%-70% of DBD.
Unsafe pallet is pallet where the survivor has to rotate a pallet where survivor has to guess to fake vault or vault pallet and the killer options are to keep walking forward or double back on each corner. Badham car pallets outside of the school are like this. most of midwitch elementary school pallets in classrooms, dead dog saloon pallets. the main problem with them though is that if you do outplay the killer for a prologue period of time, they end up getting blood lust in which they get a hit by force.
its strange how the survivor side can 1vs1 better most of the time than killer side in asymmetric game.
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@DelsKibara said:
Depends.
If it's Shack Pallet, sure. Since while it's one of the safest pallets in the game, there is stilll potential of getting hits from it before it gets dropped.
But stuff like the pallets near Gideon's Basement, or the SEVERAL god pallets in RCPD.... No... Just no. It's just free distance for the survivors.
you realize that indoor maps like Gideon do not have a shack or "safe version" jungle gym pallets, same for every other indoor map. those safe pallets/god pallets are replacing those tiles. are any of them good design?
In my opinion, no because just make generators artificially shorter as they extend chase with practically very little effort or skill. they're basically bad design. those pallets are basic reason why tiers of killers are so severe in DBD. It comes down to "Does the killer counter hold W strats from breaking these pallets?" and "can the killer gets hit at tile sets when played safely?". If the answer is yes to both, they end up being S-tier. If its only one of them, they end up being A-tier and if its none of them, they end up being B or lower C-D(If people hate playing these killers).
as long as those pallets exist and there are more then 2 of them on each map, the only other way for killers to scapegoat this pallet design is 1 second or less pallet break if their power has no hold-W counter or tile set play.
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@TheClownIsKing said:
Most survivors hate it. But yeah like you said, it’s not seen often because Clown isn’t used often. This, and also most Clown’s just spam bottles and don’t get accurate hits.
Its funny because i have faced clowns using this add-on and most of the time, they either lost or got barely 2 kills with it vs solo-queue survivors...
from facing its overrated add-on, perhaps even weak. reason being is that the instant down requires setup(you pre throw bottle than get direct hit on hindered survivor making it trash at loops) and it changes your mindset to conserve bottles only for instant downs and to never use your bottles for actual hindered ability.
if your losing to this add-on you need improve your looping skills on survivor in my opinion as the counter it is just... not being out of position and sticking to loops.