Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2503415#Comment_2503415
I personally think legion's smiley pin is bad because it results in the survivors not wanting to heal. That's bad because they will just play injured and probably have dead hard. His duration add-ons are generally not needed.
Freddy has nancy's masterpiece/sketch which i personally think is really good and punishes survivor for being in the dream world. I like pill bottle too.
So i think their add-ons are equally as bad, and i think it comes down to their power being fine as is. I think more play legion also because people like the character, and apparently no one wanted the remake freddy.
legion's entire benefit is based off the entire idea of not healing because by not healing, you are exposed for entire match. This really helps his time efficiency as he only needs to land a single M1 hit compare 2 hits. This also makes hook-saving a complete pain as your best case scenario becomes hook-trading unless you heal which becomes waste of time because if legion finds you, you'll be injured quickly again.
Mural sketch book is very important add-on for Legion because it allows Legion to fish out the weak links of the team. Legion is very good at finding figuring out who the bad looper on the teams are very quickly because he can easily bounce from one survivor to next. He is also very good at tunneling because for example,
If survivor 1,2,3 have not been hooked but survivor 4 is on 2nd hook, typically survivors that are on 2nd hook tend to hide away from action and do safe generators. Legion can hit one person and just scan entire map for the person 2nd hook, than chase them which allows him to easily get quick eliminating kills further slowing down the game.
Freddy's sketch books are waste. The TP base-kit cooldown is good enough to do all the basic functions between fake TPing & elb flowing from hook->chase. there isn't any benefits for hitting mutiple survivors into dream world because he no longer has any add-on that promote keeping multiple survivors in dream world. Black pill bottle revolves on survivors staying awake and the survivor not paying attention to spirit-phase walk freddy. He also has normal TR when awake so its unlikely you will ever stealth with it. Your best bet is to utilize the perk "Monitor&Abuse" to lower your TR to 24, however the perk has no effect in dream world from Lullaby effect. Overall, Freddy dreamworld has no threat-level so there isn't much reason to wake up in current iteration of his power as they completely gutted his 4vs1(slowdown add-ons) and his 1vs1(snare nerf).
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@[Deleted User] said:
Freddy isn't the only one with bad add ons though. Most of legion's are not good and they are original.
Legion has mural sketch book and smiley pin that gives him free mangled and free injure pressure. Freddy are add-on are legit irrelevant. he has red paint brush but he has no real add-on that punish survivor for being in the dream world coupled with the fact both his snares and pallets are worse. He doesn't need lower teleport cooldown. It is already good enough in base-kit and remaining add-on are meme add-ons like black pill bottle and green/yellow dresses.
Freddy is near extinct killer these days. even Legion is more popular.
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@MadLordJack said:
I think that would end up having the same problem as old Undying.
Edit: As in, forcing people to do far more than reasonably necessary in order to progress the game.
but you do not need cleanse totem to progress generators. The current aura reading from this perk on totems is stronger than all survivor perks for cleansing totems.
Seriously, if they invented perk that gives me 16 meters aura reading for totems, I might actually equip this into my survivor load-out permanently. Its also for some reason stronger than survivor items(Maps) which is an item that is suppose to be specialized in destroying totems.
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I love design of this perk. this is everything totem perks should be in term of effects. you hook a survivor, you spawn a totem and the survivor gets option to cleanse the totem as secondary objective to remove its effect or ignore its effects in hopes that it does not impact the match outcome. Its just that currently, its far too easy to disable the totem to render the effect worthless. survivors should need equip a perk slot or use Map item if they want this easy-level of cleansing, not get it for free. I also think that blocking of the totem is not very good mechanic because I think hex perks should be a team effort to remove.
I kinda wish the other hex perks like Hex:Lullaby, Hex:Ruin, Devour hope, Third seal, NOED, Blood favor and Hex:crowd control used same system for hex. I think it would help balance out perks like Hex:Ruin & NOED that give too much free value for low-killer commitment and help buff lesser used hexes to last longer
Here a few examples of how the hex perk could use hex:plaything system
Hex:Ruin: Every time a survivor is hooked, A generator will begin regressing up to 100/150/200% speed up to a total of 5 generators until corresponding hex totem is cleansed.
NOED: Every time a unique survivor is hooked, Gain a token up to 2/3/4. When exit gates are powered, Survivors suffer from exposed status effect until corresponding totem is cleansed up to the tokens number of token required(4 totems. For every hex totem standing, the killer movement speed is increased by 1%(4% in total if all 4 hexes are alive).
Hex:Devour hope: Every time a survivor is hooked, Survivors suffer exposed status effect until corresponding hex totem is cleansed.
Hex:Huntress Lullaby: Every time a survivor is hooked, Survivors lose notification of skillchecks and failed skill-check regression is increased by 2/4/6% until the corresponding hex totem is cleansed.
This is more of brainstorm idea so I doubt an idea like this would ever be implemented. It is probably way too much of extensive rework for hex totems for devs though it would be cool to see all hex perks get used.
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@landromat said:
Trickster is going to be bad no matter what changes they do because he can't deal with long wall loops. They can make him devastating in the open But one game of being looped for 5 gens in cowshed and you'll never play him again
Untrue. if his movement in throwing mode was faster like 105%. he could just follow the survivor while holding his knife up. Long walls wouldn't be nearly as effective.
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@Ssajbambusa said:
Me and other people already made countless topics about it... :(.
It's good that devs buffed Trickster, he needed it... but it's sad that the buffs went into completely opposite direction everyone who plays the game for some time suggested.
He didn't need to be stronger during chases, he was decent enough. He needs map pressure. How to easily fix him:
Make knives never fade away, instead make it possible to be mended away. This way Trickster's time and knives are not wasted when he decided to switch targets or after long range throwing (he pretty much has to tunnel now, because all the knives will simply go away when switching targers). Survivors now have interesting choice: Rush the objective, but stay more vulnerable or mend themself to be safer, but pause doing objective for couple of seconds. It's not deep wound, they won't go down if not mended.
Boom, it's that simple. Also I would like him to be able to store main event like Oni can, at the cost of it taking twice as long to build up and not get removed when M1ing.
Did you read his post? he is complaining about trickster's 1vs1 being weak. not his 4vs1.
His first major point is that trickster is required to be pointblank to be effective which defeats the purpose of being a ranged killer.
his second complaint is that trickster has poor anti-loop.
his third complaint is that his power hurts him more than help him because of constant locker reloading.
OP post is what I said about trickster like 5 months ago and I mostly agree with his post. I know they buffed his movement to be 96.5% but it still feels like too slow. as OP says, you still need pointblank to use his power. Its because missing feels like "double losing". I believe I recommended that his movement speed would be 105% in throwing mode so he does not feel like he is double losing distance. He just spends too much time in throwing mode compare to other killers.
His anti-loop being bad is again reflection of his movement speed in throwing mode and reflection of needing to throw many knives to damage full health state. It just takes more time to throw 15 knives than it takes to throw 1 hatchet. Its combination of having few windows of opportunity to fire while not having long enough windows of opportunity to damage a health state.
Locker reloading is result of their nerfs to trickster. he had no problems with that before.
Don't think he needs rework. probably just more adjustments to his movement speed in throwing mode and revert of ammo change.
I think they need work on making his 1vs1 good before they go on making his 4vs1 good which is what your post is all about, but I have feeling that him having strong 4vs1 could make him unfair to face.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2493342#Comment_2493342
Good for you that you play on low sbmm.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2492981#Comment_2492981
Pinhead is not weak at all. Why is every killer who is not Nurse Spirit or Blight automatically a joke?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2492923#Comment_2492923
His gateway harpoon has a lot of counter-play. for one, Flashlights are super strong vs Cenobites power. When Cenobite is slowed during opening of his gateway, you can flashlight him and the flashlight blind carries over into his gateway.
An item is not counterplay. Neither is a perk or anything beside base kit.
If you can predict where he will place his gateway, another strategy is to enter his gateway and crouch below it. you can also try to spin near gateway. It makes very hard to land his harpoon. This conditions cenobite player to not place his gateway pointblank.
Every above par Pinhead casts and shoots right away, you dont have time to react to that.
If your in a tile set with many corners, Line of sight blockers does work against it if placed in poor position.
Same as above.
His gateway harpoon is not confirmed sure-hit. it is skillshot.
Hoping that the killer misses is not counterplay.
Secondly, The add-on cannot down you and even if this ability hypothetically was impossible to dodge(i.e a player could hit ability 30/30 times), how would this be any different from Legion? Is legion overpowered for you?
Legion has a completly different kit. While Legion is a chase oriented killer with just a little bit slowdown, Pinheads power is basicly the best game stalling mechanic we have to date. On top of that - compared to Legion, he still has his chains while Legion become just a regular Killer with no power. Your comparison is not valid at all.
thirdly, The add-on does have downside. It may not be very clear, but what it downside does is make your cooldown after hitting a healthy survivor longer. It means they get more of sprint burst making Shift+W stronger on bigger maps like Mother Dwelling.
The downside is absurdly weak compared to the effect.
lastly, otz made that tier-list when pinhead just came out in PTB which is bound to some bias. I am not sure if I agree with many his placements either. For example, Pinky finger and Tusk of hair give Clown and Myers permanent instant downs(Devour hope 3) without the ability for it to be disabled. that is much stronger than this add-on for example. Blight's compound 33 add-on is borderline mother daughter ring-level power. it gives blight enduring spirit fury base-kit+clown pink bottles as base-kit per bounce on killer that is arguably among strongest in the game.
Otz made that video when he was on PTB and Pinhead was less powerful. The only thing that really changed is that Pinhead got buffed and the addon is the same.
The add-on does not need to be weaker. if anything, the add-on is not worth its iri add-on status in term of power. I kinda wish the add-on allowed you to down injured survivors but reduced your base killer movement speed to 100%. It would give pinhead a completely new playstyle when using this add-on.
Yea, it would make Pinhead a Nurse on steroid. Ballanced!
"Every above par Pinhead casts and shoots right away, you dont have time to react to that."
yes but if gateway is placed pointblank, you can run into gateway. you can't shoot for something you cannot see.
This is why my follow-up comment was that if you try place your gateway like 3 meter away from the survivor, than they can just run forward as you place gateway, so now you have to hit a shot that is ~5 meters away on projectile that you have to commit in one direction(base-kit).
You may ask how would play figure out that where pinhead places his gateway?
By looking behind you as survivor. Pinhead raises his hand and the gateway moves at 8 meters per second. His facing angle can sometimes signal pinheads intention. if he is looking at you, he is trying place it on top of you than fire. if he is looking on the side, he is trying place to it on the side.
at very high-level, pinhead will likely try hide their intention to create mindgame, however I haven't seen any good pinheads yet when playing survivor. most of pinheads that I have faced have been very abysmal, often ending the game in 2-3 hooks.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2491614#Comment_2491614
Its a free hit without any counterplay for survivors. No LOS, no Pallet, no window - nothing can safe you from this free hit beside lucky that the killer is missing. The downside of the addon is compared to the effect meaningless.
Either they rework the effect completly or give serious downside to this addon.
His gateway harpoon has a lot of counter-play. for one, Flashlights are super strong vs Cenobites power. When Cenobite is slowed during opening of his gateway, you can flashlight him and the flashlight blind carries over into his gateway.
If you can predict where he will place his gateway, another strategy is to enter his gateway and crouch below it. you can also try to spin near gateway. It makes very hard to land his harpoon. This conditions cenobite player to not place his gateway pointblank.
If the gateway is placed far away, the harpoon has poor steering and forces cenobite player to commit into certain direction to land it, so a strategy you can do is pretend to go right/left than take opposite direction left/right. Dodging harpoon is very reliable and somewhat very easy.
If your in a tile set with many corners, Line of sight blockers does work against it if placed in poor position.
His gateway harpoon is not confirmed sure-hit. it is skillshot.
Secondly, The add-on cannot down you and even if this ability hypothetically was impossible to dodge(i.e a player could hit ability 30/30 times), how would this be any different from Legion? Is legion overpowered for you?
thirdly, The add-on does have downside. It may not be very clear, but what it downside does is make your cooldown after hitting a healthy survivor longer. It means they get more of sprint burst making Shift+W stronger on bigger maps like Mother Dwelling.
lastly, otz made that tier-list when pinhead just came out in PTB which is bound to some bias. I am not sure if I agree with many his placements either. For example, Pinky finger and Tusk of hair give Clown and Myers permanent instant downs(Devour hope 3) without the ability for it to be disabled. that is much stronger than this add-on for example. Blight's compound 33 add-on is borderline mother daughter ring-level power. it gives blight enduring spirit fury base-kit+clown pink bottles as base-kit per bounce on killer that is arguably among strongest in the game.
The add-on does not need to be weaker. if anything, the add-on is not worth its iri add-on status in term of power. I kinda wish the add-on allowed you to down injured survivors but reduced your base killer movement speed to 100%. It would give pinhead a completely new playstyle when using this add-on.
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@konchok said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2485981#Comment_2485981
To truly gauge the strength of any killer, you need to master them first. Only then can you determine if they're weak or strong. Imagine if the released killer was Nurse. I could see you complaining that she's weak just because you haven't mastered her yet.
Show me evidence that you've mastered the killer, and then make solid arguments as to why certain parts of his kit are weak and you could change my opinion. But right now, I think you're just not very good with this killer.
Unless your new player/slower learner, the placement of gateway is actually nurse mechanic for blinking so if you've mastered nurse, you already know how to utilize this aspect of the power and nurse is way better because she injures instantly coming out of the blink and the gateway aiming part is new mechanic. Once your get good at consistently hitting his ability, you've pretty much already mastered this ability.
The problem is that hitting ability currently is nearly pointless. The chains have no durability at all. they break instantly off the environment and any new chains that spawn are likely to miss. If the circles spawn facing towards you at loops, your forced to walk through your chains which also breaks chains instantly. This does not even account the fact that placing a gateway slows you down making you lose distance (when walking in straight line) and that his ability has cooldown i.e you do not return instantly to killer+cannot do interactions such as vaulting/breaking a pallet for like 1.5 seconds.
There is nothing to learn about him past learning his skillshot. he is simply not effective. All these problems were in PTB and nothing was changed 4 weeks after. now you can wait 3 months to see if anything changes.
My prediction that they're just going fix bugs his BP gain bug, The lament configuration permanent audio bug and probably change that Franklin demise and hoarder do not affect the box as they usually do not allow perks to interact with killer powers such as Nurse calling working with mending or Hex:Lullaby working with Pig boxes/Doctor snap out etc.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2485694#Comment_2485694
its not about MMR. It's about game balance. The game/system obviously knows i should be in high MMR, probably because i main nurse. The problem is, nurse is the only viable killer at that level. Period.
I agree. Its just that they said that each killer has their own MMR. Pinhead can never reach nurse's MMR in his current state. that is why I found it amusing when they said they'll balance for top 5% with new "data" because large majority of the killers will never hit high MMR. Even if they somehow did, they would instantly lose pushing them back to lower MMR.
I doubt your facing high MMR, your just facing middle MMR where pinhead peaks and does not really pass where as someone like nurse has no cieling, so she just goes straight to the top.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2485009#Comment_2485009
Literally please just read what i wrote.
My experience with SBMM when not playing my main, is as follows.
1) I play a game, and i get 4 megheads who don't know what a pallet is, i 4k at 5 gens in less than 3 minutes.
2) I play a second game, and i get a 4 man SWF sweat squad with full loadout of meta perks, Brand new parts, syringes, on coms and i get 2, maybe 3 hooks while i lose 3-4 gens during the first chase where they just shift + w and drop pallets (this is how high level is).
Obviously i lose the second game terribly because i'm playing pinhead, or something. Then, my next game is like the 1st game again. Rinse and repeat. It's not giving me "balanced" matches, it's giving me a "50% winrate" at all costs, but not in a fun way for either side.
Previously, i would get less of both of these style of games. Yeah, they existed, but the SWF sweat squads would show up maybe once out of every 50 or so games. And the 4 megheads would happen maybe once every 50 or so games (usually it spikes during a new rift level where everyone is focusing on doing challenges instead of playing the game). My matches were more balanced when i didn't play my main.
This is also all occurring after playing around 50+ games at this point with SBMM, 50 games should be more than enough for it to figure out my "proper" MMR and not match me with games like this.
its because your mmr is skyrocketing one match and crashing downwards in another match. As you said, facing strong teams only worked 1/50 games. Its more that solo matchmaking is pairing up strong solo players together more frequently and your losing to them in your 2nd game hence title of OP post.
for me personally, I am a bit more used to going against those crazy teams and my typical result against these 4-5 minute gen teams is like 5-6 hooks with some amount of kills(1-2 kills) assuming the killer is high-average killer. it is very unlikely to beat strong teams as killer, but it can happen if the survivors messes up.
Pinhead has poor 1vs1 and his 1vs4 slowdown is not too impressive. he shouldn't be facing high MMR. he has potential to be a good killer if they improve him drastically in next 3 months but he is not quite there, so you should be facing middle MMR while playing him.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2481886#Comment_2481886
Hes pretty much only fine when you use that addon that spawns more chains when they break in the environment, but even those are too RNG. i think he just needs a small tweak:
- make it so you can't break chains on the environment (rework that addon that does this to do something else)
- Add 1 more chain to his base kit (so they get hit with 4 chains)
this is very similar to what I said in PTB. I just added that his chains should not break from killer walking over them.
good know that we think alike.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2478576#Comment_2478576
again.
Blight 1 is running meta, Blight 2 isnt. If both were playing the exact same match and had the exact same results. Blight 1 can chain rushes consistently after every hit where blight 2 cant.
The only way you would be fully correct is this scenario: Blight 1 and 2 didnt get to use their addons and perks. Any other scenario, and Blight 2 is at a massive disadvantage compared to Blight 1, and needs more skill to compensate.
"I am fairely certain that there are many good killer players and survivor players that do not run the most perfect cookie cutter stereotypical build and they do better than large percentage of population with their "inferior" build." Agreed, and those players are definitely more skilled as they do not rely on their perks to do good.
"That means your bad at killer and you should play at lower MMR until your better at the 14 other maps. this will likely be reflected in your MMR scoring from a loss you incur on these maps."
No, that's simply false. Map balancing is far from accurate enough to say "you're not skilled enough at this rank" when any other killer you are just as good with does well on those maps. There is a reason why killer tierlists exist, and why half the roster has a consistent B-tier or lower, because b-tier and lower killers start depending on maps too.
You're only correct as of yesterday, because matchmaking was NOT facing survivors of equal skill. Deathslinger and Myers did alright because the survivors they faced were not equally skilled as you.
"Being SWF does not automatically mean good. There are some games that I suspect that I playing vs SWF but survivor team is playing very poorly, far too altruistic and somewhat poor looping."
Did I say good? No, I said EFFICIENT. And being more efficient makes you better by default. But being better doesnt mean you're good.
"SWF has potential to be stronger than solo at very very highest level but not everyone will play at that level."
Oh, why didnt I see that? Oh wait, I DID
- point 3: once survivors are skilled enough, they will never, EVER, play against new killers unless those killers are capable of reaching ungodly high MMR, or unless they play against friends.
- rant after the points I gave: Content creators would need to throw their matches for the sake of keeping content fun to watch without every match feeling like it's a tournament, or give up on the game. Players who have a ton of hours and can "win" consistently without relying on meta perks, will at one point be forced to run meta perks if they want to have any chance at having fun.
- conclusion: I am extremely skeptical of veterans of the game being able to enjoy the game as they currently are without consistantly needing to sweat
All points that are about high MMR.
I agree that for players below 1000 hours, SBMM will be a godsend. But get above 1000 hours, and it has a massive potential to become the most boring, most grindy kind of hell unless you are willing to throw games to prevent entering that hell.
"Blight 1 is running meta, Blight 2 isnt. If both were playing the exact same match and had the exact same results. Blight 1 can chain rushes consistently after every hit where blight 2 cant."
A blight who cannot land his blight rushed will not be top MMR. in fact he probably will not even be past 60% of population regardless of his perks. Perhaps his MMR will boosted from stomping weaker survivor players with the perk "Hex:Ruin".
For example suppose that highest possible MMR is 3000 and let's say that all survivors below 1800 lose to hex:ruin, The blight who is running a meta build might have true skill-level of 1500 but because of hex:ruin, he might climb to MMR 1900 out of 3000 from hex:ruin carrying him.
Its that at certain point, perks start to lose a large portion of effectiveness and at some point, your personal skill on that killer with killer power matters more than any load out will provide.
It is possible that two players that equally skilled at the killer find two different load outs that happen to bring same results, but generally speaking this is not very common because certain perks are simply better others especially at the highest level. This is why some perks are refer to as meta perks.
Few players will reach absolute highest level in first place, so most of the time, they will just hit their personal ELO rating ceiling with that killer.
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As I said with maps and SWF. It depends all on skill-level of the players in a SWF. some are efficient and difficult to beat, others are laughable. Some survivors are very good at using the strong maps, others are terrible. How much SWF and maps impact the game largely depends on the skill-level of the players in question.
"Love seeing creative builds on Otz? Like seeing his 50 win streaks?"
Otz is skilled killer player. He should play against his own skill-level, not against players lower than his skill-level. His win-streaks will be a lot more impressive now if even possible. MMR will be perfect for otz.
"Love playing casually yourself? Depending on your skill and how often you play, that will become an issue. Either you get skilled enough where you start facing opponents that force you to run meta perks, or you play once a week or so, at which point SBMM is a godsend since you would no longer face god tier opponents if you have potato teammates."
Playing casually will still be possible. It was possible in old system and it will still be possible in new system. Its just that you might have some forced losses if you are accidentally put into matches that are too difficult for your level. This happens in old system as well, however it was not as frequent as matchmaking was very random.
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@aliens said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2480472#Comment_2480472
Yes, that is the objective of chain hunt, if it actually would happen. You are correct, it is extremely easy for the survivors to get the cube and make chain hunt null and void; there's a reason why out of 11 games I've played as him, only 3 times did chain hunt activate for a total of 10 secs combined. You can't say something is in a good/okay state just because of the potential it has, that's like monstrous shrine is a good perk because it can be "good" under a niche circumstance. Why have something in the game that barely activates? It just makes you feel gimped.
The reason I stated it's high risk with little reward is due to the fact of how easy it is to miss/dodge his gateway chain, and even when hit outside of unsafe loops it effectively does nothing versus experienced (key word experienced, not good or bad, just some with base knowledge of how to loop) survivors. I don't quite agree with making his iri addon 'engineers fang' baseline, he is already extremely strong with that addon (I would say right about easily middle of the pack A tier). The solution shouldn't be this whatsoever.
your first complaint is solved by his other iri add-on, lament configuration. it hides aura of the box within 16 meters. I have used it with torture pillar that reduces the chain hunt activation time. I would say it activated a decent amount of times. The problem is that running these add-ons makes his 1vs1 atrocious.
Leads me to my next point. Engineer fang(his other iri) fixes his rewards problems in 1vs1. Almost all my chases, I have successfully injured the survivor very quickly upon entering a chase, however when it came to using his "original" power, it just takes so many hook hits to get any value out of his original power. The location in where chains spawn can be behind trees or rocks. as consequence, the survivor can rubber-band the chain on many objects, so as result, the chain can break instantly. It is also very ineffective at loops because the chains can spawn facing your direction and if you walk through circles or the chain, the chain instantly breaks making it very poor at loops. It is just so many layers of RNG.
Engineer fang is so much cleaner. a single hit is single health state loss. it removes all luck components to his power and just gives him clean consistent gameplay. one of your complaints that hitting chain does nothing outside of unsafe loops vs experienced players. This add-on for first hit always does what it says it does regardless of loop strength, so it solves that problem. As you said, the gateway is easy to miss/dodge. I think putting engineer fang in his base-kit and improving current add-on to be a basic mechanic for downing survivors would greatly normalize his rewards for hitting his ability.
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"The main gripe with this killer is how bad chain hunt is in it's current state, even with double speed up addons for chain hunt, a survivor just picks up the cube and it takes another 30 secs or something (I don't know the exact number) before it activates again; the survivor can just pick up the cube and rinse and repeat."
I think objective of chain hunt is for survivors to get off generators and to hunt for the cube like secondary objective. As far as getting survivors off generators, I would say it does its job alright. What I would say though is that finding cube is too easy currently due to aura reading. This is just my opinion from my limit few games playing against Pinhead. I would say his chain hunt is an ok spot strength wise.
"it's high risk with little reward it feels like, and we can all agree that's just no fun"
I feel like this is contradiction. your agreeing that the chain ability is underwhelming(little reward) but disagreeing that making his ability high reward would be a bad idea. I think his problems are more towards his 1vs1 being pretty poor. I feel like if his reward for landing the chain was just single health state loss, it would simplify his kit a lot more.
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@aliens said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2479896#Comment_2479896
I don't quite agree that the chains need to do damage, he has an iri addon for that which makes him insanely strong, but that's the issue is we don't to have another killer that is insanely add-on reliant. Nonetheless, higher tier addons that tons of grinding to stock pile on
to me, he is like nurse that has the rewards of clowns bottle but requires the aim precision of deathslinger.
so I would say he is nurse+clown+deathslinger into one killer. Currently, I feel like i need hit the survivor 3-4 times in a row with my ability just to get an M1 hit. it seems very excessive. To me, it feels like they tried to hard to make an M1 killer that is not rewarding to play.
I wish his ability could injure and down survivors but his movement speed was reduced to 96.5%. I wish bvhr could make a another killer like nurse with high skill-cap that is hard to use but rewarding to play.
Pinhead seems so close to that.
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2478509#Comment_2478509
It's just too difficult to hit, not to mention that some of his purple addons should be base kit. There is just little reward for the risk. I'd say that a good change would be, that when a survivor is hit by a chain, they are held in place for like 0.5 seconds or something. Just long enough for Pinhead to exit his gateway without losing even more distance.
They are not too difficult to hit. I am hitting like 80% of my chains. I am just not getting any reward for them.
he is same as he was in PTB. Same problems. Too little durability on chains, they break too quickly. objects break his chain too quickly, survivors/killer walking into the chains break it.
Pinhead is missed opportunity. Hopefully he is better after 3 months assuming they balance for high MMR.
Make his 1vs1 better and he will be solid killer.
Also please fix the lament configure sound bug. its annoying hearing the box sound all over the map.
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"wrong, blight 1 got carried by perks and addons where blight 2 did not. If blight 1 were running the same build as blight 2, he would have worse statistics."
you have no proof of this. I am fairely certain that there are many good killer players and survivor players that do not run the most perfect cookie cutter stereotypical build and they do better than large percentage of population with their "inferior" build.
"again, irrelevant. The point is if you have only 3-4 maps that a killer does well on, and 14 that it doesnt do well on, that killer is going to be punished if they dont get the maps they need.
That means your bad at killer and you should play at lower MMR until your better at the 14 other maps. this will likely be reflected in your MMR scoring from a loss you incur on these maps.
"Sigh, irrelevant again. The power in SWF is that they can communicate. Needing to cleanse a totem? A SWF can communicate that 1 person is cleansing all the totems, having 1 person check the map for totems. If they have 2 people cleansing totems, they can communicate where they have been. There will always be people available to do gens. In solo's, you can have all 4 people checking the map for totems with no one doing gens. So yes, SWF is "magically better" than solo because of time efficiency without needing any perks at all. A team of potatoes on comms tends to have better results than an average group full of solo players(unless those solo players happen to play with each other a lot, but that would make them closer to an SWF than solo's). So yes, at one point in MMR, all you're going to see is SWF, simply because of communication. Just as an example: For a solo survivor to have the same information of an SWF, they will need Kindred, Buckle Up, Bond, Empathy, Better Together and Windows of Oppertunity as a basekit."
Being SWF does not automatically mean good. There are some games that I suspect that I playing vs SWF but survivor team is playing very poorly, far too altruistic and somewhat poor looping. SWF has potential to be stronger than solo at very very highest level but not everyone will play at that level.
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- blight #1 is not more skilled than blight #2 if both of them are getting same amount of kills and hooks on average. If blight #1 or blight #2 were better than each other, Either of them would have a better winrate.
- Hypothetically, Imagine if Survivor 1 is good at countering Trapper but dies to every other killer. Suppose that survivor 2 is good at surviving every killer but always loses to Trapper. Do you think survivor 1 is better at the game compared to survivor 2? It should be obvious that how well a survivor plays is based off average of all killers. Not a specific killer. At the end of the day, you will still be unhooking, doing generators and doing a chase as survivor, so many of survivor skills translate to vsing all the killers. This is why single MMR is sufficient for survivor as the survivors objective does not change regardless of the killer they are facing.
- The third point is simply untrue. You will not start 0 MMR with one killer if your MMR is 2000 on another killer. I am sure that a percentage of your MMR is shared across all killers, otherwise a 3000 hour player would be face a 20 hour player every single time they play a new killer. I remember this being a problem the first time MMR was tested.
- A map can favor one side, however the survivor still needs to effective at winning on fracture cowshed. There will be many survivors that lose on fracture cowshed just like there will be many killers that lose on lery memorial institute. The map does not instantly decide the outcome of the match. This point is reflecting on game balance over MMR system being good or bad.
- Many of survivors skills are personal skills. SWF does not magically make survivors better at their personal skills. Doing a generator is not SWF skill. Looping the killer is not SWF skill. SWF is a substitute for game sense and teamplay/teamwork. A solo survivor can have good game sense and good teamwork without the need of SWF. Admittedly, It is easier to have good game sense and good teamwork as SWF, so your point is not invalid, however a SWF is not magically better than a solo player if they do not have personal skills to back it up.
"A survivor running DS, DH, BT and Prove Thyself, should by default be considered less skillful than a survivor running Deception, Q&Q, Dance With Me and Lithe achieving the same results."
See killer point 1. This point applies to survivor as well.
"and most killers literally cannot be buffed untill solo survivors have access to portraying information to teammates(yes, killer mains claiming your killer is being ignored or nerfed without reason, solo survivor is the reason why your killer isnt getting the changes it deserves)."
This is very good excuse for poor balancing. Not a very good compelling argument.
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Why do you think they're changing matchmaking to work based off MMR instead of ranks/emblems?
It should be obvious that current emblems/ranking are not a very good way to determine wins and losses. Its why current matchmaking is so bad.
The last test we had was one of best matchmaking that we ever had in DBD. so that MMR matchmaking can't come soon enough.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2474432#Comment_2474432
Yes. Killers have been nerfed in their entirety before because of 1 or 2 (I don't even want to say) problematic add-ons. Say a killer has their 2 strongest add-ons, but they only use one during a standard match. That's manageable for the survivors. It's the spam of their best add-ons that people have issues with, because they're not unbeatable with those add-ons, but it's very tough. You're not gonna see All-seeing Blood/Silent Bell Wraiths, double iridescent Trapper, or Compound Thirty-three/Alchemist's Ring Blight every match, but if that's like half your matches, like some people are claiming it is, then you can see where they're coming from. But even then that's still not enough to warrant "nerf this killa" as much as it does nerfing 1 or 2 of those problematic add-ons. I like to run browns and yellows on killers, so I'm not always dependent on add-ons. Anyway, old Hillbilly, old Nurse, Freddy recently, they all got nerfs to their base kit that they didn't deserve AND had their add-ons gutted. That's what's ruining the game for killer.
So I am of the opinion that strong add-ons make killers strong and viable for highest level(top 5%).
This statement though implies that the killer at base-kit is functional and effective to some degree. Pinhead current base-kit is really bad right now. those add-on are just going attempt to help his poor base-kit. good add-on with poor-base kit might elevate the killer to perform at average level. if he is average due to killers using his strongest add-ons, than they will not change him because according to statistic, he will do fine despite being almost unplayable without those two add-ons.
he will definitely not be the worst killer with engineer's fang and impaling wire. Its just that killers should not become entirely dependent on iri & purple add-on just to be average. killers should be somewhat playable to mild degree without add-ons.
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Just to further talk about your first post regarding the box:
His box in general is just badly implemented. if you did not know, using his teleport resets chain hunt timer. The fact that survivors control where he teleports means that they can walk to corner of the map with like sprint burst. solve box and if he teleports, you can just sprint burst away which wastes pinhead his time. moreover, pinhead is likely to start chases in favorable survivor positions when the box is solved. The teleport just is not very well thought out.
The aspect that is actually good about box which is chain hunt will not ever be activate because survivor can hold the box and the only way for you to activate that box is to find survivor that holds it and down that player. it means box mechanic forces killer to tunnel vision the survivor. that is as horrible as trickster's laceration mechanic.
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Its real shame because I think pinhead is super fun to play and I would definitely want to put many hours in learning him but there is currently too many drawbacks to his ability that make him unrewarding to play.
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Problem: According to statistics, all the killers are overperforming at red ranks, therefore they need no changes. Billy has like 70% killrate at red ranks so he was among top 5-6 killers, so no changes required for Billy.
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@Phasmamain said:
My problem is both wraith’s bringing indoor map offerings and how it compares to similar add ons (Amanda’s letter and scratched mirror specifically).
It’s just too strong to warrant not having a downside/cooldown etc
Indoor maps are already favored for wraith. he doesn't need all-seeing to win an indoor map. If anything indoor maps+Wraith is aspect that is strong.
@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2475682#Comment_2475682
That's maybe what you think but I've seen more then enough people wanting basically all his strong addons to be made useless right next to nerfs to basekit.
The wallhack is nothing special either. Blight has one about as strong and nobody is complaing about it anymore even when still one of his best addons and it belongs to possbily S tier killer unlike wraith who's at best high B.
I completely agree with your post. I still use compound 21 on Blight. the add-on was always there even before his rework and there were zero complaints about wraith before his rework. High-mid tier is good position for a killer to be at.
I am willing to bet survivors that are complaining about all-seeing are rank 10-20/low MMR survivors because when old freddy was released, survivors said "permanent aura reading overpowered, nerf old freddy" and there were just in general a lot of excuses like "I do not understand his power" during this time. Since they're not good at the chase, they use stealth as crutch and aura reading takes away their ability to use stealth and forces them to learn looping.
Even to this day, you still see BBQ is overpowered posts every so often by new players.
Its also same survivors that complain about add-ons like Tuft of hair(Unlimited EV3) that gives unlimited instant downs or Clown Pinky finger because they are not good at looping m1 killers so instant downs are powerful to them. They're far too reliant on health states as a way to crutch the game.
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@Katie_met said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2475426#Comment_2475426
I don't see anyone post about this. Imagine if nurse had an addon like alchemist's ring. There would be complete outrage.
This was actually base-kit nurse before her rework. She has no cooldown on her power and she had opportunity to equip 5 blinks.
@TacitusKilgore said:
His speed addons are fine, you have to be decent at blight to use them since being bad at him means speeding past survivors and being unable to recover from how far you went. The only addon that direly needs a nerf or change is the alchemists ring, it punishes survivors just for getting hit. Blight instantly gets all 5 charges back which essentially gives you almost 0 window of opportunity to fight back and get to safety. The speed addons are different, since you still have to wait for your charges to come back before you can tap into that speed again. Frankly all of blights addons are fine, with the ring being the sole exception. C33 is also pretty busted, you can turn blight into a pallet grinding machine and it pretty decently slows survivors as a bonus.
I mean what makes speed add-on good is that the extra speed prevents survivor from getting to rounded objects where his counter-play is. so while his counter-play remains the same, Its harder to get into those advantageous positions. this is exactly why C33 is so strong because extra hinder effect guarantee that survivor does not make to next loop on top of super fast pallet break that gives pallet zoning into out-position hits.
Alchemist ring is overrated. you get a fatique and survivor get speed boost. you should always be able to get to next loop with that or at very least have get to an object where blight would be hesitant to use his blight rushed immediately in which case alchemist ring is wasted as you would had your power available without the ring.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2474443#Comment_2474443
Normally you need 1-2 meters. But i wouldnt be surprised if there is a tech, which changes that.
There is tech to fast vaulting windows that are not supposed to be fast vaulted. I wouldn't be able to explain very well. basically you can run along a wall and "glide" until your character model shifts to left(or right) to a window and then press vault prompt. if you do it quickly enough, you will fast vault window even if your not 1-2 meters away from the window.
The tech was easier to do before because all you had to do is run into the window for 2 seconds than press vault though this tech has been patched out for being too much of exploit.
I recommend practicing the tech on a L type jungle gym or the 4 wall loop window. it can come in handy in certain situations.
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2474215#Comment_2474215
I think so, too.
Fyi: The grades have nothing to do with your rating. Everyone can reach the highest grade bc its just depends on playtime.
so 5/10 player will still suck regardless of whether he uses meta perks or not. For example equipping dead hard as survivor does not make you suddenly a 9/10 survivor. The survivor already has to have high natural ability in being good at looping(make few mistakes in looping) for dead hard to be impactful.
The same can be said about killers. Pre-nerf Stridor Spirit do not need MDR to win against survivors of lower skill than them. They use those add-on to have chance to compete against stronger survivor teams. map, perks and add-on only matter when both players are of equal skill.
Otz video regarding killers and survivors using good perks is naturally going to happen. People use good perks/add-ons in current iteration of the matchmaking and I do not really see any problems with it. previously, if you were running strong builds, a lot of the time it would be overkill because of poor matchmaking. Now it should be more accurate.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2472028#Comment_2472028
I'm talking about what you said about killers being punished for using their own power. Nurse's fatigue, Hillbilly's overheat, Clown's yellow bottles speeding survivors up, Legion's fatigue, Blight's fatigue, Victor being kickable even after a successful down, Trickster's knives going away on their own. It's like the devs can't make a killer without giving them a built-in counter for the survivors to benefit off of.
yes these are very anti-fun mechanics for killer. zero fun allowed.
survivors do not just want counter-play, they want an instant win button and breaking chains instantly is an instant win button against Pinhead's power. I mean survivors are 4:1 ratio to killers, so if survivor say this is good mechanic, that mechanic stays. Honestly I think that when Pinhead goes live, every single Pinhead is just going to use Engineer fang(an iri add-on that injures survivor instantly) and impaling wire(a purple add-on that spawns more chains) to play him, otherwise his power is worthless until they buff his chain charges which they won't do because he will probably be "good" statistically from those two add-ons.
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@Yords said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2473162#Comment_2473162
Well thank you very much for your time. <3
I only watched video 1-4
your first problem is that you are not infecting all the survivors quickly at the start of the trial. Plague in particular starts off as very weak m1 killer. you need get your fountain online as fast as possible or at least put everyone into broken state as quickly as possible. it is how you get your time efficiency as her. you cut chases short by destroying health states quickly and instant down everyone or by using your corrupt puke at loops.
The reason why you lost game 1 but won in game 2 is because in game 2, you found everyone immediately and infected everyone which as consequence made survivors broken very early into the match. the survivor choose to cleanse, so the chases were super easy because you got to spam corrupt puke.
In game 1, you didn't do this and only happen to use corrupt puke once. by 3rd gen complete, you only had one person infected until unhook happened. ideally, you want infect everyone at 5 gens.
your second problem is that your mechanic aim for infecting a survivor out of position is very poor. For example Adam at the start was out of position. If you fully charge your vile vommit, plague at base-kit has exact amount of "orb" projectiles to fully infect a survivor from healthy to injured(broken). I forgot how many ticks it is, but I believe it is like 6 ticks.
I am not entirely sure how to explain this but plague's side animations for puke are purely cosmetic. There is center line in the middle of green puke that shoots out in the middle of the screen. These are orb projectiles that you need to hit to fully infect a survivor. If your really bad at this, you can use Vile enemic(?) add-ons that increase vile puke infection rate. Overall, it is better to practice your tracking skill so you do not rely on add-ons, however these add-on can help you at beginning to ease learning curve at the start. You should also work on your corrupt puke accuracy. You really should not be missing corrupt puke on survivors that are out in the open at all.
Time efficiency is super important on killer especially when your facing efficient teams in game 1 and game 4.
in game 4, Chasing Steve at 3:34 is a mistake. he has relatively safe pallet and when he was going in main building. you should have broken off that chase and went to defend hook to slug the Dwight. Even if you catch Steve, it will be too much of time waste. If Steve used dead hard for distance, he would made it to the shack window easily.
This leads to my last point. When plague does not have corrupt puke from no one cleansing, you need capitalize off deadzones (like T-L wall, jungle gym pallet you broke) to slug survivors for map pressure. Basic m1 killers are really easy to loop. you need to capitalize off survivors mistakes and focus more on positional play.
The play you needed to make is to slug Dwight and fully infect Claudette into a m1 down on the unhook play that survivors just did. After that, you hook Claudette and you try defend the hook while Dwight is slugged. Since everyone is broken, those players either have to trade hooks or cleanse and give you your corrupt puke.
When plague acquires corrupt puke, her chase game is pretty strong, so you can play the chase-hook game very easily and be very aggressive at chases. when you do not have corrupt puke, you need to rely on slugging and focus on creating deadzones to try to manufacture lose/lose situations for survivor so that they cleanse so you get your strong chase power.
Hopefully this helps improve your plague gameplay.
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@Killing_Time said:
SBMM IS GOOD because it will show just how WEAK RR killers really are outside of Nurse honestly. We've been needed it so killers can finally be buffed properly.
Potatoes won't exist higher up anymore. No more inflated kill rates.
This is not how aggregated statistics works. average statistic will remain the same. Vast majority survivors are not high MMR so vast majority of killers are effective to some capacity at low to medium MMR which is like 80%+ of the DBD games assuming the killer player is good.
potatoes will play with other lower MMR players. High MMR will play with high MMR. For vast majority of population, matchmaking will not change too much for most players. overall the matches will just be closer(harder) because you will be matched with players within your own skill bracket. it means a lot less otz 50 winstreaks with weaker killers with mismatched skill-levels.
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Its not really too hard to fix.
Most games have resolution settings. Now technically you can add every resolution from 4k(3840 x 2160) to 800x600 but often its not worth trouble for dev to add all the possible resolutions. so typically you'll choose like 4-5 of them. e.g1980x1080, 1600x1024, 1280x1024, 1024x768, 800x600 than disallow user to change anything beyond resolutions provided. I am not sure if it is even possible to run DBD in 4k but they could add that one.
I am not 100% entirely sure why DBD does this but I think it is because DBD tries to maintain aspect ratio so that nothing on screen gets cut off but it seems that doing that changes field of view.
A small difference in field of view will not provide advantage in gameplay but very large one such as what is shown in the video will provide an advantage so it is more about trimming the large extremes rather than removing it. 1080x1080 stretch resolutions should not be allowed as that is not a native resolution.
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he would be able to beat top 5% easily. He would be stronger than nurse due to exposed.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469212#Comment_2469212
Aww, that means Plague's mori's gonna get nerfed, too :(
Obviously. One of his nerfs were that survivors are immune to his ability for 3 seconds after being unhooked. It goes hand in hand with the gateway change.
Why? No clue, but you do not need understand any of BVHR changes. I assume they believe he is above expectations.
Maybe its those surveys. I can imagine a lot of survivor mains filling out those surveys when they ask the questions of like "Is the killer power threatening" and they put like overwhelmingly so. I can totally imagine a player like Sluzzy filling a survey like that. haha.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469143#Comment_2469143
Which is precisely what I have an issue with. It was extremely unfun to play those Killers because when everyone is good at DBD nobody has fun.
I probably will stick to Survivor. My matches were fun and we won a lot.
Untrue. You were not having fun as killer. Survivors were having fun.
I do agree, survivor is fun. If your good, you'll be winning more often now from having more solid teammates instead having to carry teammates.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2469033#Comment_2469033
I play 3 Killers. Nemesis, Blight and Wraith.
I can't play Nurse, she makes me motion sick and I play on Console.
I read your previous post in another thread as you said you were only able to play Nurse and Spirit, I am sorry.
You will play vs survivors of your skill-level on nemesis, Blight and Wraith. If you do not enjoy playing killer, than you can happily play survivor.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468918#Comment_2468918
Every single test has been misery on Killer.
I'm, unfortunately, good at the game. During the tests, I waited in queue's for an unholy amount of time, only to be matched up against the same teams who, even when I played perfectly, I was unable to best. The game isn't balanced in high MMR, and more importantly, it's extremely unfun for both sides. What's worse is that BHVR know this, have known this, and show no signs of doing anything about it.
The killer queues were only long in very first MMR test. you've linked scottjund video. Have you watched it?
One of the major points that scottjund makes in the video is that you will not be facing very top 5%. In his words, he describes as facing 2 good players and 2 bad players.
This actually normal. See, top 5% of players is actually very shallow. there are not many of them. What occurs is that you will be facing 1-2 players in top 5% and 1-2 players in top 80-95%. I was laughing a bit at that point because in let say top 15% of survivor is still really good.
It means there are a lot more killers that are viable than you think there are. If every killer except nurse is miserable for you on every single game, than it means your one-trick player which will give you one-trick high MMR on that killer. I think you still need to play killer well to have 50/50 chance of winning against 1-2 5% and 85%-95%, but victory is possible. Its just harder because your no longer facing potato players.
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@ad19970 said:
I think it's great to see that they are giving him some buffs before he releases to the live build.
I also 100% disagree that objects shouldn't break chains. That's one of the counterplays survivors have, and counterplay is always a good thing. If anything, they should increase the duration that it takes to break chains normally, but keep the feature of chains breaking on objects. But simply making them more reliable which they seem to be doing when he releases sounds good as well for a start.
The counter-play is suppose to be related to side-stepping his harpoon. Once your hit by his ability, he is suppose damage a health state from an M1.
Making his chain break on objects is not counter-play. that is reducing the reward he gets for hitting a shot. It means you can get hit like 6 times in a row with his chain and still not lose health state. Whats the point of hitting his ability on survivors if the ability does not give you any rewards?
Now you need to wait 3 months to get proper anti-loop for what might not even occur and might be just nemesis-level change.
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@Kebek said:
It's probably good as long as it works. The part that captured me the most is
"SBMM will also allow us to collect more detailed statistics for our design team to work with (e.g. seeing how a perk or power performs among the top 5% of players). This data will allow us to make more meaningful tweaks and balance decisions in the future."
I wonder if they'll ever deliver on that.
doubtful. I mean look at current pinhead changes. all negative changes. The lament box is going to be like Twin victor hostage where one player is disabled but pinhead loses half of his ability. Chains re-spawning from chains breaking objects means you'll run out of chains faster, so it will be easier to break out. 6 seconds from infinity is another negative change.
I am honestly not sure why the box is an item that you can hold. Its almost like you inviting the survivor to abuse mechanic. It should work like glyph in tome or perhaps pig's headtraps with the rule.set 2 add-on(no aura for the box).
no address on his chain strength, the objects breaking his chains instantly or cenobite walking over his chains accident from rng chain spawns.
The MMR being permanent will be awesome although you might miss old matchmaking for killer. no more easy matches.
@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2468292#Comment_2468292
It is bad news, yes. The problem isnt that killers need appropriate buffs. The problem is map design and gen speeds are ######### garbage.
Basically every game is going to be sweating it out for 4 hooks before gens are gone in 5 minutes.
Sure..You can argue it'll give them information on how to "balance" but that's bullshit. We know how slow BHVR is to make needed changes. How long will killer be more miserable then it already is before they make appropriate changes ?
That is funny you complain gen speed and map design when I believe that I spoke to you about freddy who had both add-on to address gen speed and generator teleport in combination address those two. Hope you were having fun playing him during MMR testing. I recon 1-2 hooks? Hope he is still top-tier for you.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2465613#Comment_2465613
I'd be fine with the approach if they were quicker about it and didn't seem to completely rely on data to confirm obvious mechanical defects with the killers. Nobody in their right mind thought Trickster was ok on release for obvious reasons. Didn't need a month and a half to see that. Same thing with Nemesis. The midchapter is going to tweak his tier 3 but the elephant in the room is still 8 free health states he gives out. They'll probably arrive at the correct conclusion eventually, it just shouldn't take this long for devs to identify mechanical issues in a 5 year old game with an established meta.
it does take that long because dev do not play their game. most of dev are rank 20. This is actually pretty normal in game development because creating content is an opportunity cost to developing/coding the game. Usually there is seperate department known as "Quality Assurance" and this department is responsible for playtesting the killer and giving feedback to the programmer/developer.
from looking at bvhr. I would say that bvhr either has no quality assurance or quality assurance is pretty bad. having bad quality assurance means that your new content becomes half-baked, so its pretty normal that most of the killers end up being pretty bad. on top of that, they don't take much community feedback so there is that.
for OP, It will probably continue for long time.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2461114#Comment_2461114
Only using Blight’s power for mobility is easy but you’re underestimating how much skill it takes to use it to down someone. It’s all about map knowledge, planning ahead on which objects to hit, understanding which objects you can or can’t collide off of, and even understanding how to hit the survivor with your power. If you don’t have the practice to do that, you’re just an M1 killer which as we know is a reason why Pig and Legion are so weak. Yes with Ruin Undying Tinkerer Pop, that’s a very oppressive build and anyone can win with it but even then, survivors have Dead Hard, Decisive Strike, Unbreakable and a few other perks that can be oppressive to go against.
As for Huntress, it’s not as simple as throwing a hatchet. You still have to aim, predict what survivors are going to do, and understand when to lift a hatchet and when to M1. It’s all very depth so I don’t exactly agree that she’s super easy to pick up.
Many of list skills are just knowledge for both huntress and blight. once you have knowledge of how your blight power works, Blight is pretty easy to pick up and play. Spirit got heavy nerf on stridor and footsteps so we're all blight mains now. thanks BVHR.
those that struggle with blight mechanics just play Wraith.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2464855#Comment_2464855
Pop's overrated. Anything that requires you to kick a gen is, because when you chase someone off and you have to kick the gen, you give them a massive head start. And often times you might kick a gen with Pop that's at 15% progress not knowing there was another one being worked on at 60% progress, and then you lose that one. But the most important thing that makes it not so good is the 45-second timer, because apparently 60 seconds was "OP" or something. "You went on a 20-second chase before kicking a gen? You get robbed of your perk now."
its overrated in term of how impactful it is but its only thing that killers have right now in term of regression that isn't named hex:ruin. Oppression applying pop goes weasel would be only change that would make use the perk. Otherwise, Oppression is worthless perk right now.
Pop+Oppression would be a decent perk combination for killer players that are not interested in using Undying+Ruin. Unfordunately, they believed that pop at 60 seconds was too strong so I do not see dev changing oppression.
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he is one my favorite killers to play. regretably he is not that strong. You can get your power like 2-4 times per game, if the survivor team is bad, you can get like 6-8 times. it depends what survivor's skill-level is and how fast they do their objective.
you need to have good m1 killer fundamentals and be able to utilize his power to get quick downs in very small time frame.
He does not suck but he is not amazing. I like playing him, he is a lot of fun to play even if he has absolutely no chance vs good teams due to low power duration and punishments for downing survivors.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Killer is the easiest it has ever been and STILL people struggle with playing Killer.
It is impossible to make it that easy that every Killer can have easy games... The game is also not that imbalanced as people claim it to be. On the very highest Level, it is imbalanced, but 99,99% of the players are not at this level (including those who complain about it..).
I think killer is actually a lot harder than it was previously. This is because older killer were more powerful than new counter-parts. Newbie players could easily play Iri head+Infantry belt, Nurse 5 blink/omega blink or like old Spirit and be very effective. There were other really easy killers like Freddy and Hillbilly and so on. Killers also had much more impressive perks such as Old Hex:Ruin+Pop. Ebony Mori offering was a thing.
The other aspect to consider is that survivors were a lot worse 3 years ago at playing the game compared to now. With all the stronger stuff removed, you actually need to be really good at killer to play killer. OP is probably casual player for killer and the game is too hard for him on killer side so he does not have much fun playing killer. Stuff like that kills your casual player-base as they just lay off your game.
Its not really surprising that killer queues are instant when killer role is very anti-newbie friendly.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2451127#Comment_2451127
Because Survivors had even broken Stuff. If we talk about the Launch:
There were double as many Pallets.
There were WAY more Windows. E.g. Ironworks, the upper Floor, every Window was open.
There was no Bloodlust and no Entity Blockers, so there were actual Infinites, Spots where the Killer cannot catch Survivors.
Some Maps were bigger.
Some Structures got reworked a lot in 2020. E.g. Ironworks again: there was no Doorway next to the Window Downstairs, so it was a Window where you had to vault 3 times for the Entity Blocker to kick in. So basically, you were unable to chase Survivors there.
BT worked for both players when it was introduced, so both had BT (even tho, the mechanic was different, back then you had to heal to get out of the "Endurance"-State (Endurance was not a thing back then).
Brand New Parts completed a full Gen.
Syringes healed two Health States, Styptic Agents healed one Health State, both instant.
DS when introduced activated shortly after Pickup, no Unhook Requirement or anything. Later they changed it that only the Obsession has it shortly after pickup, other Survivors had to wiggle for 35% of their Wiggle Bar. So you might not have been able to pick the Obsession up, if there is no Hook nearby to dribble them (dropping them to avoid the DS) and even if you were able to dribble, it was so time-consuming.
Exhaustion was not a thing, back then a Perk like Sprint Burst was on 20 second Cooldown which also went down while running, so every 20 seconds the Survivor had Sprint Burst.
With Self Care and We Will Make it you were able to heal yourself faster than the recovery time of the Killer.
Vault Speeds of Killers were WAY slower, meanwihle Survivors were always able to fast-vault.
Those are just some things. And even then Killers were able to get Kills. Players who complain nowadays that Killer is hard really dont understand how easy it became. I am not saying that Nerfs or Buffs were not deserved, but saying that Killer is hard (or some say it has became harder or unplayable, lol) is simply wrong.
Just because a lot of stuff on survivors side changed does not mean that the game is perfect. There are other imbalances in the game. Safe pallets and god pallets, fast gens and hold W from health states/exhaustion perks on non-mobility-chase killers are still problematic problems in base killer gameplay.
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Its only good strong on blight. other killers do not capitalize on the perks too well. Undying and Ruin are totem perks. they can be broken or you can just have long chases with good gen spread and complete all 5 gens without ever breaking ruin. Tinkerer is information perk with a bit of stealth that has heavy synergy with Hex:Ruin.
Tinkerer by itself is very predictable and not that amazing purely because killers are not able to regress generators effectively without hex:ruin/pop even if they know a generator is about to be finished. The stealth is not that impressive if you know the killer has Tinkerer as it always occurs at 70% gen.
On blight, Ruin,Undying,Pop and Tinkerer are really powerful. His mobility allows him to capitalize on Hex:Ruin/pop and Tinkerer tells him when he needs to capitalize on it. Its main reason why blight is really powerful and common to face. Because he capitalizes on these perks so well, Breaking Hex:Ruin and Undying is huge priority against him. It leaves blight with only Pop and Tinkerer which are still strong but they're not Ruin-levels of regression.
It is small PP build on Blight specifically.
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@EvilJoshy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2449173#Comment_2449173
You know what I meant. NOED is there to punish people who complete their objective too quickly. When I'm playing survivor if were ahead I purposely stop doing gens to find totems for fear of NOED. There are times where the killing is playing well and you may not have time to find totems but the premise is the same. You rush gens without even looking for totems, you run the risk of NOED.
it does not punish you for doing objective. technically you can still escape when NOED is active. It is a rewards given to the killer when losing his main objective. All killer perks that are featured in end game like No way out, Remember me, Blood warden, Fire up, Rancor, so on are perks that reward killer for losing his main objective.
A perk that would punish generator rushing would be a perk that powers a single generator after 5 generators are completed making it that you need to do 6 generators instead of 5. That perk would easily be killer version of second chance perk. I imagine adrenaline would be very popular perk if a killer perk like this existed.
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NOED is just bad for game health. its primary problem is that it skews killer kill statistics. you can make weak killer powers and just use NOED to justify the killer in good spot. The perk is literally stronger than 70% of killer powers in the game.
Worst of all, Its really bad for solo-queue as it gives no telltale signs that it is in play and it takes a while to check all location spots to disable it in the end game, but by that time, there is chance that your team falls apart from NOED speed boost+Instant downs. Not many survivors do dull totems as they tend to be waste of time.
I kinda wish NOED was reworked to be an early game perk, kinda like an early game collapse since killers are lot weaker at the start of the game from all pallet spawns. I think it would be a much healthier perk if the perk gave 60 seconds of instant down+speed boost at the start of a match. It would make survivors a lot more scared to start working on generators at the start of the game as the early chase would be a lot harder. The fear factor of the perk might make generators pop slower in early game.
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@ukenicky said:
I highly doubt anyone would be running Coup if it was 100%
If Coup generated tokens upon hooking survivors it would actually be pretty viable. Why it's tied to generators popping I will never know as it makes NO sense.
Trail of Torment ah, yes. This one falls into the category of "Killer perks that would be decent if they had a shorter cooldown" which there is a lot of. Oppression is another killer perk I would love to run if it had a shorter cooldown.
Gearhead is kind of a mess so I won't comment on how I'd change it but it definitely needs some love. And Fire Up is just sad, same with Remember Me.
I wish there would just be a patch where they update buff all the weak/never used perks on both sides and rework some but that's unlikely. I'd also take them reworking just a few on both sides every so often too.
The problem with Coup the grace is token system. Limited uses for perk just feels really bad. Coup the grace would be better if it used Unrelenting perk model. It would be single sentence.
Increases killer's basic attack lunge distance by 60%.
If there was one perk that I wish was good. It would be this perk.
I think second perk I would dream for it to be good is furtive chase. If only the perk lower TR, did not lose tokens upon killing obsession and did not deactivate after the obsession dies.
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@Red_Beard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2438212#Comment_2438212
What is considered a win or loss is not defined though. Just because you see the 4K in 3 minutes as a win doesn’t mean that is what BHVR considered a win. The emblem system was designed to reward players with rank points for playing in a way that BHVR feels is the most fun way for both sides. That is why you lose points for camping if no other survivor is near the hook even though BHVR considers camping an acceptable strategy. That’s why the devout emblem is based on hook actions and not kills. That’s why as a survivor you can’t pip if all you did was sit on gens the whole match and escaped.
I don’t think it is a bad system. It just doesn’t fit some people’s perception of winning.
for rank system, it goes by emblems. Piping is consider winning. depip is losing. black pip is drawing. What I imagine the system does is that it tries to look for your average emblem count on each emblem and it tries to compare it to group of survivors with similar emblem score.
if your emblem score on average is really high. for example you get gold emblems on average, it will try to look for survivors that also get gold emblems on average. Obviously, having high emblem average means you will pip very often. that is my guess to why you can face rainbow survivors ranks in current matchmaking sometimes.
issue with that system? Your ability to achieve their emblems is based off other person's skill-level. so for example. you could be red rank survivor and you just face killers that play their killer poorly, as such, it makes really easy to iri emblems in all categories. as long matchmaking keeps giving you easy games, you'll eventually hit red ranks(this is why ranking system is more based off time than skill). you could also face strong killer players as survivor and their play is very refined such that it becomes very difficult to pip so you end up drawing a bunch but eventually you end up getting to r1.
so now you have two types of red survivors that both achieved red ranks but one person achieved by facing worse opponents and the other person achieved by facing very tough opponents. so you can face a red rank team survivor team as killer that is so much weaker than compare to another red rank team. Similar stuff can happen with killer.
It all stems from emblem system not being good metric for objectively being able to identify wins from losses. that nurse game image is just one example. It just makes matchmaking super random where you can have very bad teammates as survivor and huge randomness to strength of teams when playing killer.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2438212#Comment_2438212
How do you know it was better, when you don't know results of those games?
well I am speaking from personal experience. I have no clue for what global experience was.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2438140#Comment_2438140
Problem is that you don't know, if he would get or lose rating for those games. There is chance he would lose it anyway.
Well if MMR for killer is based off rank and emblem system. he would lose MMR as he did not pip(win), but not lose much as he did not depip.
I mean, that is how you know the emblem system is pretty bad. it cannot tell difference between winning and losing.
This is why MMR was much better. it was more accurate at predicting wins and losses. It improved matchmaking quality greatly.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2435296#Comment_2435296
"you just named what would possibly be perhaps 2 worst design tiles for killer where best outcome of these tiles for killer is an early pallet drop and at worst case, an entire game lost."
If you lose the game because of a single jungle gym, you deserved the loss.
"Having series of these loops connected to each and the killer going for this chase is an instant loss vs efficient gen team."
Except that vs a Bubba, not really. Bubba creates a scenario where survivors HAVE to drop the pallet, or go down. Let alone that Bubba gets rid of that pallet faster than most killers too. Efficient gen teams are rare. It's the same reason why Nurse's addons havent been addressed. Because a genuinely good nurse, is rare. Balancing around the 0.1% without screwing over 99.9% of the community is very difficult. Which is why I am stating they slightly overbuffed Bubba.
"If by counter-playing bubba, its suppose to be that killer never hits get an opportunity to get hits, than these tiles right on mark."
Oppertunity to get hits are plenty, oppertunity to get insta-downs should be less frequent. Right now, in 90% of the cases, if you can m1 as bubba, you can m2 aswell. No addons taken in consideration. That's a problem considering 99.999% of this game is about the public matches.
"I think at most filler pallets, bubba is unlikely to be able to get hits on them with his chainsaw and most of the time, he has to break pallets using his chainsaw."
A good Bubba can quite easily down a survivor with 2 charges around filler pallets, then hook them and have all his charges back. The only time a Bubba has a hard time with filler pallets, is if survivors are so danm optimal at pathing AND have dedicated servers in their favor. If a Bubba cannot down a survivor on filler pallets where a Pig can injure someone with a dash, the Bubba is the one making a mistake.
"My team finished all 5 generators. do you wanna know what happened? He downed entire team and I never got unhooked. so I cannot say I agree with your statement. Instant down are very powerful in deadzones and facecamping with them is pretty omnipotent strategy. To be fair, that team was pretty stupid to even think they were going save me, but I understand where this gameplay choice comes from."
You kinda answered your own question later on. Yeah, if it's in the basement, it's extremely hard to get a safe unhook. But that is a combination of the basement AND the instadown. If it's any generic hook though? It's quite easy to get an unhook off with a hooktrade. If multiple survivors get downed, it's on them. With a Bubba? Doesnt matter what you do, doesnt matter where it is, you're not gonna be able to save your teammate without giving the killer more kills.
And no, the hook system is fine. Hook trading is fine. Turning all hooks(including the basement hook) into a cage system would quite heavily ######### over the killer's pressure. A killer needs to be able to camp and survivors need to be able to hook trade(especially if a survivor needs to die if the killer wants to stand a chance during the EGC). I'd personally make killers unable to use their M2 while within 16 meters of a hooked survivor. Meaning a Spirit would be forced out of her phase while within the range. Bubba and Billy wont be able to rev. Myers wont be able to stalk(but if he DOES have t3 prior to hooking the survivor, yknow, he earned it).
efficient teams being rare is an excuse. they're rare because of poor matchmaking. during MMR, they were not rare and those loops waste m1 killers time regardless of how well killer plays it.
"Oppertunity to get hits are plenty, opportunity to get insta-downs should be less frequent. Right now, in 90% of the cases, if you can m1 as bubba, you can m2 aswell. No addons taken in consideration."
This is untrue vs good survivors. bad survivors(low MMR) put themselves in positions for bubba to capitalize off his instant down throughout the game.
"Bubba creates a scenario where survivors HAVE to drop the pallet, or go down."
"A good Bubba can quite easily down a survivor with 2 charges around filler pallets, then hook them and have all his charges back. The only time a Bubba has a hard time with filler pallets, is if survivors are so danm optimal at pathing AND have dedicated servers in their favor."
Also untrue. Better players having optimal pathing and understand duration of his chainsaw. Leatherface chainsaw will clip pallets if he comes in contact with them instead of hitting the survivor. it used to be that if survivor slide during a pallet break, they go down, though that feature seems to no longer be the case. you need to have very bad reactions to go down to leatherface on dropped filler pallets.
Bubba does not create scenerios where survivor have to drop the pallet or go down, survivors set themselves up for that to occur. Understand his charge system and how much distance he can cover within 3 charges is integral to making the most out of these pallets.
"You kinda answered your own question later on. Yeah, if it's in the basement, it's extremely hard to get a safe unhook. But that is a combination of the basement AND the instadown. If it's any generic hook though? It's quite easy to get an unhook off with a hooktrade. If multiple survivors get downed, it's on them. With a Bubba? Doesnt matter what you do, doesnt matter where it is, you're not gonna be able to save your teammate without giving the killer more kills."
Its just survivors not understanding that instant down with deadzones at hooks is bad combination. This problem also occurs with low cooldown attacks such as Trickster's Showstopper and Huntress hatchets. It wasn't basement hook. Basement is notorious worse for this problem.
"A killer needs to be able to camp and survivors need to be able to hook trade(especially if a survivor needs to die if the killer wants to stand a chance during the EGC)"
In that case, your saying that its fine for killers like bubba to facecamp hooks despite one of your previous posts complains about it.
"the hook system is fine. Hook trading is fine."
I think this system is actually big problem because it means that survivor can literally "throw" the objective(hooks) at you during the match for free and there very little that killer can do to capitalize off hook pressure during the match. BT largely allows you to hook trade almost anything against majority of killers without any real thought process behind the save. you can complete all 5 generator by just hooking trading with BT by abusing hook timers, so it makes hook timers a survivor favored mechanic rather than killer favored mechanic.
The other problem is that performing hook action also eats great deal of the killers time when you need to do this 4-12 times per match. At the end of the game, it just creates very unfun and uninteractive facecamping gameplay for survivor and adds very little to killer gameplay experience other than savoring their loss.
With PH hook system, it saves killer hook time(Killer can use this time to pressure gens and start chases quicker) and eliminates uninteractive facecamping gameplay at the end of match as well many killers that exploit hook system to their advantage which in my opinion messes with kill statistics more than anything. The only real downfall of it is that it removes possibility of flashlight saves & hook sabotage, though this topic is another rabbit hole.
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@glitchboi said:
Nerf? All they did was nerf their oppressive add-ons, their base-kit is great.
his add-on weren't oppressive. he couldn't compete at higher-level. why weaken a killer that was already under-played for no reason.