Why not just nerf twins camping potential instead of their slugging potential
The new twins nerf just make the twins the worst killer.
what they should have changed is there camping not slugging potential
they should make it when a surv is hooked and victor is 16 meters he explodes (this is otz idea)
And if that's not enough make it so the cooldown for victor is nerfed to 10-12 sec from 6 sec ( dowsey's idea)
And just to help Charlette in chase or just in general make is so whenever victor is crushed in general Charlotte gets a small boost to her breaking,vaulting and a small 5% speed boost fro 5-10 sec
Comments
i think the twins kind of need two things to be addressed.
obviously the first one, like you correctly said, is the camping potential. Its just ridiculous how charlotte / victor can literally stand next to a hook while the other one applies gen pressure.
secondly, i think Victors chase ability kind of needs to be tuned down a bit. chases with this killer are always the same right now: get hit by Victor, run Charlotte around, get downed by another Victor. basically, Charlotte can just spam out Victors until her prey is downed, which isnt really fun for many.
the way i would fix them would be by making two rather drastic changes - one to an already existing gamemechanic and another to the Twins directly.
1) Hook Deadzones. i would completely remove the current hook deadzones for Traps, however when a Survivor is hooked a large hook deadzone around that specific hook is created. Killers are unable to place traps / switch to Charlotte or Victor while inside this radius and any already existing trap / Victor inside of it immediately gets destroyed / disarmed.
this would make it so trap based killers such as Trapper can trap everywhere again for their chases, but once they hooked someone they wouldnt be able to just place a trap right next to the hook to make saves near impossible.
2) Victors chase potential. i would completely remove Victors ability to down a player. Instead, Victor should always latch onto them and be a nuissance - however, i would drastically buff that aspect of him to make up for it.
idk how exactly that should be handled, im not a Twins player, so those two points are mostly made out of the perspective of someone that has to go up against them, but imo Charlotte should be the deciding factor between those two in a chase, much like how Plague isnt able to just puke on you until you're downed (excluding Corrupt Purge ofc) and needs to put some work into it herself, however Victor is there to make it easier for her to achieve it (more than he currently does).
for example, why not make it so Victor reveals his own aura to Charlotte, aswell as Killerinstinct of Survivors around the one he latched onto, makes them oblivious, deafens them, makes them incapacitated, etc. i would also increase the time it takes to get rid of him, just make him a real nuissance - but not deadly by himself.
i don't particularly agree with you in the sense that Vicor should not down since that would be such a huge rework to make them at least somewhat viable
but I do agree with you that they do need to be changed
Even with the nerf (and some buffs too don't forget), in no way are The Twins going to be worse than The Tricker in his current state. Haha.
I do agree with adding buffs to Charlotte when Victor is idle though. Otherwise she's just a basic M1 killer and Victor has all the power. It would be more fun and unique.
Why not just buff twins to spirit level
we need more than 2 killers to compete against SWF
i feel like that should be for every killer
buff them all to be very strong
but still have counterplay
Any gen pressure they apply is meaningless unless they sit there and camp the gen as Victor. Even if they succeed or miss a pounce, it doesn't matter, the Survivor will be right back on the gen in 10 seconds.
As for your nerfs:
agreed his fixes are a bit ify
can you give critiquing on the changes I suggested plz
Its always remarkable how all the suggestions are literally make victor useless or make Charlotte M1 killer.
When hag, trapper and Leatherface camp the entire game and win, "No problem".
When twin does it? wow unfair reeeee
When Oni and Nurse slug 24/7, Balanced killer.
When twins does it? reeee
Any gen pressure they apply is meaningless unless they sit there and camp the gen as Victor. Even if they succeed or miss a pounce, it doesn't matter, the Survivor will be right back on the gen in 10 seconds.
yes, that is why Victor is usually the one camping the hook. incapacitated Survivors cant unhook, so by the time they can Charlotte is back.
now for your critique on my points:
1) you are right, this change will have an effect on multiple Killers - namely Trapper, Hag, Freddy and Twins. however, the effect it has is not something that is overall the same. for Trapper it would be more of a buff, as he is now able to actually place traps in locations that he previously was unable to due to the the proximity to a hook, so its actually beneficial to him (especially considering how the trap deadzones already make it impossible to properly guard a hook with them anyway, so in that regard barely anything changes). Freddy wont be afftected at all, unless a Survivor literally loops around the hook (in which case, are you even mad the chase takes longer? you get two for one here thats a great dea - and its not like he was reliant on his snares to get a downl) and both Twins and Hag have this issue that their "traps" are way too good at hook camping, so its a justified change to both of them (not necessarily a nerf, because it also opens up new spots to use their power in chases again).
2) first of all, as i said right at the beginning, none of the suggested buffs were anything final. those were mere examples of what could be done - the aura reveal for example is new, as right now it is but a bug that isnt ment to be present, and other things, that are currently present, can still be buffed to be more threatening. i was deliberately not making clear changes to it and mainly focussed on the basic idea of how i want Victor to work because i wanted to avoid exactly what you did - focussing on some of the suggestions and ignoring the general idea behind it.
and the reason for that was not because "i'm just a survivor main that wants to loop the killer for 5 gens" (which is a ridiculous argument to begin with), but because i find the Twins core design to be deeply flawed, which is one of the (if not the main) reasons for why i dislike them to the extend where i dont even want to play them, something that i cant say about a vast majority of other killers (in fact, the only killers where i have this mindset are the Twins and the Trickster)
having Victor work the way he currently does creates a numerous amount of problems for both sides:
1) Twins chases for Survivors are extremely boring, as it just boils down to Charlotte spamming Victor at you, who is basically undodgeable. This means that any time she gets access to him after the initial first hit is scored, you are screwed. This makes it so getting Victor off of you is actually much more of a downside than a benefit, as you just made your inevitable doom much quicker, thanks to Charlotte immediately getting him back. We basically have a old Legion scenario here where the Survivor cant really do anything to avoid the down and are only able to drag out the inevitable, which just screams bad gamedesign.
2) Victor downing a player feels mostly unrewarding. Its not hard at all to get a hit with him and the fact that he is unable to do anything with the slug means that you now gotta switch to Charlotte and run over to wherever you downed the player, hoping to not have Victor get slammed immediately and losing your slug, something the nerf they proposed on the PTB for him just made all the more clear.
3) it makes no sense to have a 4.6 m/s Killer with such a strong chase tool. This is something i thought about a lot when trying to figure things out with Trickster, but it makes no sense for Charlotte to be 4.6 m/s, when her power is not a secondary tool that is ment to assist her in getting downs (as it should be the case for 4.6 m/s Killers and what my change is aiming to do), but something she is entirely reliant on getting downs with.
My change is centered around the idea that we make Charlotte have to work for her downs instead of just spamming gremlin after gremlin at the Survivors to get easy downs. This would create much more interaction between both sides in chases and make the game overall more fun for both. However, i also dont want Charlotte to be but an M1 Killer, which is why i explicitly said we need to buff Victor to be much more of a threat to whoever he latched onto - how we do that exactly is, right now, not important. Additionally we would get rid entirely of the problem that Victor is unable to do anything with Survivors on his own, so the entire fight for the slug until Charlotte arrives gets removed, which, once again, is beneficial to both sides.
so to conclude:
the Twins are, in my honest opinion, a deeply flawed Killer. Their power, Victor, while being very creative and interesting design wise, does not work in this game whatsoever, creating very unfun and boring scenarios mostly for Survivors, but also for the Killer at times.
The gameplay experience of facing the Twins is, after the forever Freddy nerf, easily the worst any Survivor is going to have, due to the two previously talked about issues Victor portraits: Chases being meaningless thanks to Victor and the insane camping capabilities the two show making it near impossible to ever get off that hook again.
therefore, for the sake of this games overall health, those two issues need to be addressed.
and no, i am not saying "nerf Twins". i am saying change them into something that works better than what we currently have.
i guess people think slugging with twins take no skilled judging by a post made on reddit and comments i saww
even tho this killer inst even the best slugger
the survs need to be injured first before slugging can happen
i don't really get what you mean it's actually easy to doge victor find a tree a window or even just circling around him and make him miss
Since dowsey said Trickster is more lethal than deathslinger I just can't take him seriously lol.
Victor moves at a constant basespeed of 150% mms (equal to a sprintbursting Survivor) and has about the hitbox of a minivan when pouncing.
if a Victor misses, thats entirely up to the player playing him.
any good Twins player will be able to hit with Victor consistantly.
Oni in demon form moves at 195%. This is like saying an any good Oni will always down a survivor in demon form. oh and his power instant downs. I have looped Oni in demon form. Its super hard but it is doable to some extent. Victor is loopable and you can waste a lot of Twins time.
Hi gamer, incapacitated survivors can unhook people. Unsure if it's a glitch or unintended but it happens all the time, hth.
#savethetwins
the difference is that Oni has a clear restriction to his movement during demon dash, while Victor has full controll.
those two are hardly, if at all, comparable.
Restrictions that good Oni Usurp with skill.