Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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yes but stats say no.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288549#Comment_3288549
The flickering is also a complete pain to keep track of when playing. You have... hands to look at. Hands. That's all you have to go on, at the edge of your screen, in a chase.
its part of her skill-cap. Its just at base-kit, the duration of invis for both periodic invisibility and the manifest invisibility is non-existent. As a result, the skill-cap for her ability barely exists without add-on's. It is little bit like spirit phase-walk without the spirit phase-walk speed. Once again, Lots of potential for interesting survivor gameplay. All wasted though as always.
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@TotemSeeker91 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288363#Comment_3288363
Right, definitely not the fact that people only play her with her condemned slugging playstyle
onepumpwillies is sadako main that recently discovered that iri-tape is so strong that you can use her TV only and not slug at all but still condemn survivors more reliably with bloody finger nails with iri tape. Its interesting because I used to use bloody finger nails+ring drawing because I would run out of iri tapes to play her. so in truth, you can actually play her without slugging.
I found it to be unrewarding because I felt like I was killing survivors using in-animate objects(TV exclusively) where the hits meant nothing and condemn stacks meant everything. Its my pet-peeve with playing Michael Myer's tombstone and head-pop pig. I dislike how other two killers have so little agency on how well they play and how much agency is put into staring at survivors & automatic instant kill system of jigsaw boxes. I like the act of hunting for my power to be super effective through my smart play instead of letting the power do everything for me automatically. Sadako is closest thing to earning an over-time mori in the game.
@jinx3d said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288363#Comment_3288363
she is bad though. killrates dont mean #########, nurse has the lowest but does that make her bad?
the dev balance off kill-rates. sadako in all-mmr chart has 63% kill-rate which is among top 3 killers in the game. in top 5% mmr chart, she was in top 9 killers(61%). dev do balance exclusively off kill-rate, hence why sadako is not getting any changes.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288450#Comment_3288450
Then she'd need something to do in chase, because "I can get into chases in an area but after that I'm just an M1 killer who has the worst vision over loops of everyone" is not a functional powerset.
She has timed flickering at loops. Its just not very good at base-kit. I somewhat showcase a image when she was released about this strength. Otz made a video about where he talks about Reiko's watch. If you use Reiko's watch+News paper add-on, you can time your flicker in a loop and just as flicker ends, you can briefly extend it by manifesting(de-cloaking) to get one long string of invisibility. Its pretty gimmick anti-loop because her invisibility has directional ringing which tells you which way sadako went but less attentive survivors(lesser skilled) will get confused. Otz made video about Reiko's watch but I cannot find it for some reason. She does have potential chase power, but as usual, her base-kit balance is not very good.
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Sadako is 2nd best killer according to all-kill chart. Do you think they will buff the 2nd best killer in the game? /sarcasm
In this chart, she is among top 9 killers in the game. Remember, the dev balance off kill-rate. Its why most of balance is weird in dbd. ~shrug~
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288229#Comment_3288229
One is a bug, the other is by design.
both are by design.
Disabling make your choice will not change anything about the knight's capacity to instant down near hooks because he has iri add-on called Knight contract where every 4th guard applies exposed in 12 meter radius for 8 seconds, One of his changes is that he can M1 his own guard to cycle guards to the 4th guard to always have exposed guard. so even if you disable MYC, That particular knight player can just use iri add-on and do same thing.
given the knight's balance changes further nerfing both purple add-on's and map of realm while also shadow nerfing him with his bug-cast time. it is pushing knight to use unfun strategies to be effective. In other words, blame the dev's for bad killer balance.
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@HuntresssMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284996#Comment_3284996
I think you should pick a killer that forces survivors out of pallets and vaults. For example: Hag traps can prevent pallets, trapper traps can be effective, but you need to be able to effectively bait survivors to a specific vault. Huntress hatches are also effective because it takes longer to vault than throw a hatchet and you get a free hit. Just use a killer that prevents pallet drops at all, but if one needs to drop, break it and lure survivors into a place with no pallets.
The setup time for hag is too slow in the chase. She is also 110% m/s killer. Trapper has same slow setup problems and the survivor can disable the traps to turn him into m1 machete killer. I play huntress.
if one needs to drop, break it and lure survivors into a place with no pallets.
I already understand how to play m1 killers. thank you very much for the advice. Its boring downing survivors in dead-zones. Winning loops is far more satisfying.
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On paper, Deathslinger is 4.4 killer with 1 hatchet with a tiny hitbox. I don't know what they are expecting from killers to do with 110% m/s with 1 hatchet. No clue what the thought process was behind his changes. There is too much counter-play to go for trick shots with long ads time. The 32 meter heartbeat is just salt on wound for more shift-w play for an already slow killer. I share same sentiment that he is unfun to play. He will remain unfun to play until his changes are reverted.
The comments on thread are more amusing because suggestion are use X perk to improve the killer when the killer base-kit is damaged too heavily by survivor favouritism. No perks can fix his damaged base-kit. I envy new players that are trying his adept.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah hexes have been badly designed and undertuned for years. They whole hex system and hex perks in general needs a thorough rework.
I miss old undying for hexes.
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@Chaos999 said:
This would nerf killers on high level gameplay and buff them in low level game.
Kind of the opposite of what you want, so I don't think it's a good idea.
opposite, it would buff killers at high-level play but do nothing for low-level. a 5 hour survivor is not going to know how to use red glow to there advantage while 5000 hours survivor pays close attention to red glow and uses it to loop. Another one of those hand-holding survivor mechanics.
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Face of darkness is 2 seconds of aura reading every 25 seconds. Close to op post request.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3287036#Comment_3287036
No? Both just knock you out for prolonged time? When it matters because you are doing your primary objective? They are the same from this POW. The only difference is that DS conditions killers for more healthy play (if not abused that is) while eruption conditions survivors to only play in 4-man SWF. And of course knocking out survivor for X second is a bit less problematic then killer for same time (as there are 4 survivors). Still - equivalent of getting 1 survivor fully hit by eruption (as I wrote above) would be exactly the same as DS being 10s long.
eruption encourages the survivors to tunnel generators(gen-rush) and to loop efficiently. its healthy perk.
I think call of brine and overcharge need reworks because in one hand, they're under-powered in normal gameplay but overpowered in a lot of maps and for strong killer players with strong macro 3 gen play. They're also very unhealthy for low MMR survivor play, very newbie stompy type perks.
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I think its because if you give soloq base-kit kindred or base-kit global bond, it invalidates a large chunk of survivor perks in the game that you now need rework. My suggestion is to purpose all those perks into killer wall-hack perks that briefly show the killer aura. I think its just a lot of work.
@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3286243#Comment_3286243
I wasn’t saying 90% are F tier, I was referencing Trapper since that’s what you mentioned. Except for a really good nurse the top 10% are not oppressive at all. I don’t mean viable by a 4 man comp squad, I mean viable by just an equally skilled survivor group.
I mean they buffed trapper last year. they gave him 2 traps base-kit and reworked his add-on's. It fixed absolutely nothing for what is wrong with trapper, but hey, it's progress I guess. Main problem with most of the killer is lack of skill expression in using their ability. Most of the killer have one dimensional powers with shallow skill-floors. Take Otz who is supposedly trapper main. How much better is Otz trapper compare to another player who has played trapper for 50 games? There is like no additional potency that makes you go like: Wow this guy is leagues above all other trappers! You can put a high MMR killer that is good at playing m1 killers and get them all to play trapper and there will not be much difference in performance level for trapper. Its like that for like 80% of the killers in the game. Repressed skill-cap on their ability.
Part of it is just wee-bit over tuned wraith. Survivor baby rage.
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they need to fix the bug.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285372#Comment_3285372
I agree it would be better then current state balance wise. On the other hand it would be much worse from personal's POW. Like you see 3 people that all can greed pallet, spin you, window tech you etc. And then there's that one person that does not even look behind himself AND have taken no mither. How quickly can you drain hooks if you target everyone equally? And how quickly if you target that inexperienced person with wrong build? And those other 3 people that know how to loop will now suffer even more for that 1 incompetent teammate (basically requiring you to play in SWF if you want to have chance)
how is that any worse then what it is now? Tunneling no mither is easier in the current system because its 3 hook=death. No mither in your example is talking about weak links. The killer tunnels the weak links.
There is expression for this. A chain is only as strong as its weak links. Break weak links, break the chain. with shared hook-states. your unable to break weak links. You can only break the whole chain. In the shared hook-states, it takes a lot more hooks to eliminate the no mither survivor. In any case, No mither is badly designed perk that need rework, so there is no point in talking about it. it has heavy drawback because it erases slugging but its advantage never comes into play because nobody slug no mither. it is nothing more then detriment perk often used for trolling purposes in normal dbd gameplay loop.
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@Gandor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3285215#Comment_3285215
It will not stop tunneling. In fact it would be arguably even better tactics. In team with 3 strong survivors and 1 weaker, killer can tunnel him 6x so that he quickly drains everyone's hook states even if they are not able to catch anyone else. Tunneling needs to be nerfed in a way that it's actually not always 1st choice to do no matter what if you want to win.
You do not get it. you get 3 guaranteed old uncounterable decisive strikes in addition to current hook-states for needing to hook 6 times to kill one survivor. there is no advantage to tunneling in global hook systems like these because every hook is the same value on every survivor. You can still technically chase the same survivor 6 times but there is no advantage in doing so compare just hooking anyone. I do not recommend snowbally hook regression or point systems because they just make the game super hard to read. Hook timers and regression timer are simple and easy to understand mechanics. Entity points are complicated and anti-new comer friendly.
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@HuntresssMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284971#Comment_3284971
Exactly. The game is supposed to be about looping not killers getting free downs. If you have a problem with pallets just play nurse and teleport past them. It is also not a hold W simulator because the survivors are slower than the killer anyway, so if they try and run they just get hit.
I do play nurse, but like otz stated in one of his recent clip, after getting destroyed for 4 hours playing knight, Whenever you pick a strong killer just for 1 game, The survivor disconnects. I would like to play m1 trapper and not press spacebar 20 times on Gideon meat packing plant. Ideally, I should press spacebar button on a pallet 0 times in a match on every map. Your comment about survivors being slower is clear indication of lack gameplay understanding and dbd map design/loop design works.
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@HuntresssMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283952#Comment_3283952
You can't exactly have killers lunging half of loops to hit survivors. The regular lunge range is fine for the most part.
why not? the game is suppose to be about looping. Not pressing spacebar pallet break simulator. Although the survivor like the press spacebar pallet break simulator because they can press W key and get free wins. In ideal loop balance, the killer should not break a single pallet the entire match. I know that is Utopia and that maps are bound to have 1-2 imbalance pallets though.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284646#Comment_3284646
On some, but not on all Killers, as far as I know, and they barely get used but if it is a perk someone might use sloppy over a stronger slowdown perk and if not the change does not matter anyway so why oppose it.
I know that huntress has one (it is purple), Wraith has a green one but he is already a basic killer so it does not matter much, and Bubba has a green one that only applies mangled, Trapper has two one for each effect, but is already a basic killer so it does not really matter, Legion has at least two but you should basically never heal against legion anyway, Deathslinger has a mangled one but is already a basic killer in the sense of using this perk anyway.
So as far as I know those are all, correct me if I'm wrong... Out of those Killers only Huntress and Bubba would need to go out of their way to apply sloppy butcher... And the other ones can already use it if they wanted to.
I won't name the dev but the reason why Jolt does not work on special attacks is in fear of trapper with honing stone being too strong. that was the explanation from dev's. As for sloppy butcher, I think explanation was Legion being too oppressive with feral frenzy for the survivors so his feral frenzy had to be turned into special attack instead of basic attack.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3284825#Comment_3284825
I think I've put about a day or so into him.
I think he's bad but generally usable. He relies on addons to get value out of his power though. Extra chase time and map of the realm are must runs after his nerf in the hot fix patch.
I hope 0,5 second cast time is bug and get fixed in hotfix 2. Half of my patrols are missing now due to the change. the assassin and carnifex cannot get into chase anymore. It also sucks that map of realm got nerfed. its his best add-on and yet they had to nerf it. I am just playing blight and wesker for now until they fix it.
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@Gwinty said:
The problem is that there is little to no other way to get value out of condemn.
And if I want a teleporting Killer I can just take Freddy.
As such I am all in for a nerf to the slug+condemn strat when they buff her regular condemn as well as her TVs a bit. I mean, come on: If I turn off a TV it is 60 seconds, but if Onryo teleports it is 100? That just seems wrong...
As such I am all in for a nerf to the slug+condemn strat when they buff her regular condemn as well as her TVs a bit. I mean, come on: If I turn off a TV it is 60 seconds, but if Onryo teleports it is 100? That just seems wrong...
Sometimes it feels like killer base-kit is balanced by the most bias survivor main the world. The add-on on the other hand feel like they're designed by a killer player.
whoever designs the add-on in killer saves the killer so much suffering. the add-on are complete blessing.
@Grigerbest said:
It's really unhealthy tactic for both survivors and Sadako. This is why:
- As a Sadako, you're not receiving hooking points. -pips and bp.
- As a survivors, you're not receiving unhooking points. -pips and bp.
- This tactic feels completely out of place. You basically playing a different game, which is not good.
Personally, I'm a fan of playing the game normally. Down a survivor --- Safely hook them --- Go for a different survivor. Tunnel or camp only when all 5 gens been completed. Thats it.
Slugging from the beggining feels like a waste to me... And tbh... Disgusting. (If this is her best strat, I'd rather not play her at all)
sounds like non-sense list of pointless stuff, most of it is also untrue.
You get a lot of emblem points in everything and blood-point in everything as Sadako. your getting bloodpoints for hitting survivors and injuring survivors for the hit & run play-style of her condemn build-up. This in turn build-up chaser emblem and malicious emblem as these emblems are based off hits and injuries. generator emblem has no correlation to the killer power and you get devout emblem(sacrifice emblem) for her mori. Sadako gets bloodpoints for using television teleport's and manifest hits for malicious category. The only emblem you can lose out on as Sadako for playing this way is either devout or malicious emblem having 9 hook requirement to be iri. Other then that, her emblems are normal apart from one emblem.
Survivors get bloodpoints from getting chased, doing generators and escape. They also get points for unhooking and healing. Unhooking is does not happen, but you still get blood-point for healing slugged survivors. arguably only healing points are difficult because of add-on punishing you for healing but you can still technically heal if you take tapes out of TV to lower your condemn. gen, survival and chaser emblems are regular. Since nobody get hooked, you will not lose points for your teammate getting hooked. you can only gain emblem points from healing. Pipping should be arguably really easy because weak chase killer+no hooking(no points loss in healing category).
@Pulsar said:
I think everybody would be happy if they nerfed this strategy and buffed her.
Don't worry, they will put unlimited base-kit unbreakable for more survivor hand-holding. Nothing for killer will change though.
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@dspaceman20 said:
Omg you guys are annoying with this dead hard nonsense.
Killers complained and said it took no skill. Now it's more skillful and killers still complain.
Its sad. I share your love for dead hard. Killer complaining about dead hard is same as killer's complaining that circle of healing heals survivors.
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i think lunge range is too small for a lot of loops.
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otz's ending on the video is exactly my thoughts when dev post kill-rates or when posts talks about "What should killer kill-rate be?". It is not problem about winning. it is about having fun with other killers. Otz is pure gold at the end.
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The only perk that was really used was bamboozle. Fire-up is a weak perk with garbage numbers for pallet break and vault speed. Superior anatomy is plagued with cooldowns and survivor activation conditions.
@Crowman said:
It really is confusing. They changed 40 perks to make highly used perks used less and lesser used perks used more and then make perks that had good synergy with a few killer powers not work with those killer powers.
That just limits perk diversity
What is confusing? I don't see much more perk variety post patch for killer compare to pre-patch. Most of the killer perk are still low impact. old gen defence was weakened and new generator defence took its place because barely anything for killer is worth running.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283603#Comment_3283603
B tier killers are usually good at something and pretty lacking in other areas. Clown is good in chase and lacks any map pressure or utility. Hence B.
clown excels at nothing and has placebo chase power that can be countered by survivors. that is why people rate him as C-tier/D-tier. he does excel at an easy accessible instant down though, but only with RPF. Knight excels at shutting down loops but suffers from same m1 killer problems of no counter to shift-w and no gen-defense or instant down. he does have some tracking with jailer guard and pallet break but its nothing useful for high-level.
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@Blueberry said:
It’s very noticeable and does have quite an impact on game play. Needs fixing.
I thought I was going crazy this morning where most of my guard chases were missing. I do not want to play knight until they fix that. back to playing some Wesker until then.
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@Grigerbest said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/356848/bhvr-shadownerfed-the-knight
I think you need to clarify where they exactly added 0.5 sec. Because I personally didn't noticed a thing.
you cannot instantly summon the guard at loops, you need wait 0.5 seconds before being able to press patrol button. its so bad that the survivor can shift-w out of green circle. really bad shadow nerf. they need fix that. very unfun change.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283660#Comment_3283660
-"Not really,you can do good with other killers because you can rely on their power"
You probably can rely on their power because you're playing at low MMR. Nobody picks Michael Myers when they get to 2000 MMR because it's not going to be a fun game even if you can win.
As survivor skill/efficiency increases the need to play Blight/Nurse to keep the game balanced also increases. There is no means by which you can play a weak killer such as Legion and hope to achieve with perfect play what a Blight or Nurse could accomplish with a merely average performance. The entity's left hand is a very accomplished Trapper main but there is no way he could hope to compete with Hens playing nurse (who is probably not the best nurse but who is a very accomplished player overall that has demonstrated a near perfect game against comp players in a random game).
Likewise if we choose a strong killer main streamer at random and have them pick a killer, map and addon loadout there is no method by which you could have two similar tournament level teams compete where one team must use no perks and the other team gets a full perk/item loadout.
The devs have stated on multiple occasions they prefer DBD to be an unbalanced game and have no desire to change it. Many people have questioned if they have a deep enough understanding of their own game to balance things if they wanted to.
Most people will say : well the game is fine if you're not playing at high MMR. That's fine if you reset my MMR every month (like we had for 5+ years).
The devs have stated on multiple occasions they prefer DBD to be an unbalanced game and have no desire to change it.
I think your misinterpreting what they mean by imbalanced game. I think what they are referencing is imbalance win-rate. Awhile back, I remember an old livestream in 2017-2018 where one of them said something along lines that they balance killers off 60% efficiency rate. I am not sure if they meant to say 60% kill-rate or 60% win-rate but I would like to think the word efficiency is refer to killer win-rate.
Many people have questioned if they have a deep enough understanding of their own game to balance things if they wanted to.
Its probably soloq vs swf problem. Soloq struggles escape killers, so weak killers are strong enough for soloq while the killer fails to compete vs strong swf. Nurse and Blight are balanced for SWF level but dominate soloq if the killer player is exceptional at them.
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@Zokenay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283514#Comment_3283514
Pretty much, other ranged killers only need ONE hit to injure someone, which is why they are slow.
Trickster is the opposite, requiring several hits, and his knives not only are inaccurate due to recoil which can screw you over easily, like around corners, but they are pretty much useless at long distances cause of it.
he should be around 105%-110% m/s. in fact it makes little sense that the more knives he throws, the slower he gets. it should work opposite way. he should speed-up the more knives he throws.
It makes sense to his lore as well. Just listen to his audio cues. He loves the thrill of pain and actively seeks excitement for every knives he throws at the survivor. He thrusts for blood and pleasure as he tortures the victims. He is meant to be eccentric with flame passion the more he throws. Its all over his cartography with his voice and voice lines in game.
His gameplay does not match his balance. Instead of becoming on fire, He becomes weaker the more he throws knives and slower. Easier to line of sight(LOS), more distanced gained for throwing making it harder to do long distance shots. Yeah his gameplay is just weird. I assume his bad balance is survivor hand-holding and survivor disliking his gameplay for whatever reason. Cool character though.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
No, I'm serious; why is The Trickster not a 115% Killer when you factor in the overall nature of him and his power? He has a mediocre power that takes time and good luck to get value from it and it slows him down considerably over time. And it wouldn't even make him oppressive if he was.
all proper range killers are 110% m/s. His throwing mode slowing him down for considerable amount over time is a problem considering he has throw many knives to get injuries which forces him to stay in throwing mode a lot longer then other rangers killers.
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@Blueberry said:
I was just about to make a post on this.
I noticed it immediately. It feels super bad.
more survivor hand-holding.
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@versacefeng said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283268#Comment_3283268
Blight, Huntress, and Oni are all killers that don’t have anti-loops in their kit yet are some of the strongest killers.
Blight hug tech is anti-loop. His ability to bounce between objects and hit survivors between loops is anti-loop. Huntress is also anti-loop. She can throw over low wall loops and throw hatchets between loops. Oni is m1 killer without demon fury, but in demon fury, Oni is slightly slower then blight but fast enough to be anti-loop both between loops and at loops. The upside is that he has instant down. The downside is that he does not have his power all the time. He lacks ability to recycle his power after doing a lot of damage. not enough blood orbs even if downs two survivors per demon form consistently. This means that half the time, your stuck playing m1 killer vs unfair loops and efficient shift-w play with ticking time bomb on generators. In any case, all 4 killer are among strongest anti-loop in the game, aside from Nurse herself.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283342#Comment_3283342
How does billy not counter holding W? He can literally force the survivor to loop by making up distance insanely fast with movement and quick pallet breaks
Wraith can body block to make up the uncloak time and again forces the survivors to loop instead of hold W since he’ll just catch up otherwise
he can't hit survivor between loops. he just has fast speed to gap-close larger distances. he has no steering. Billy has 2.5 second charge time, Good survivor can play around his chainsaw and not put pallets down unless they need to which negates his fast pallet break. Curving is currently gimmick used to defeat bad survivors.
Survivor can bodyblock Wraith to prevent Wraith from bodyblocking+Smart pathing. Wraith's pallet play when the pallet is down is no almost non-existent. Both killer are weak Shift-W.
DBD killer is balanced around bad survivors and killer are underpowered because bad survivors cannot handle stronger killers. I am not going expand further. you can fill in the blanks for why Blight and Wesker counter shift-w and have proper kill pressure towards shift-W.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283268#Comment_3283268
Any killer with mobility inherently counters W holding. Think blight, billy, wesker or wraith.
Killers like knight, artist, slinger and nemmy are very hard to loop and are designed to ignore it. Their weakness however is distance so maximising distance gain is their only real counterplay
billy doesn't counter hold-w. long range chainsaws are complete meme. only bad survivors get hit by long range chainsaws. Wraith has 2.5 second uncloak time. he can gap-close loops to reduce shift-w efficiency but overall, wraith is m1 killer in chase.
Blight is strong because it takes skill to hold-w against him unlike other two. Wesker is also strong for same reason. hold-W can be fair mechanic but its up to killer power to be skill expression to counter it. Wraith and Billy lack counter-play if the survivor is good at looping m1 killers since survivor has too much counter-play against their power in the chase.
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@Phasmamain said:
If BHVR stopped adding killers that ignore loops making holding W the only option I’m sure more people would stop doing it as often
Killer without anti-looping tools and anti-shift W tools are very weak which is like 80% of killer cast. The survivor will loop tiles efficiently and hold-w efficiently independent of killer they are facing. Its up to killer power to have skill expression in countering the survivor gameplay.
In the end, its not survivor problem that killer sucks. its killer problem that killer is weak.
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@SweetTerror said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282870#Comment_3282870
Very true. The bots definitely genrush like crazy! Since they group together fairly often I wanted to see how realistic it was to get five consecutive hits with Legion's power, and I couldn't do that, not even with bots!
I think they were programmed to counter killers as best they can. I've noticed that with killers like Pinhead and Deathslinger, they can juke your ranged attacks fairly well. But an m1 killer like Legion whose power can't even down a survivor goes to show just how weak they really are.
the bots dodging deathslinger's gun is exactly why I hate current deathslinger's balance because good player can do what bots are doing vs deathslinger's gun consistently. its just that so many survivor are so bad that it makes slinger look strong.
Pinhead's anti-loop balance is also abysmal. When he is opening his gateway, he moves at 92% movement speed. So in essence, the survivor hold-W is gaining distance even though your chain power is suppose slow them down. In the words, you can hold-w for like 2-3 seconds and when you predict pinhead's gateway being spawned on top of you, you can backtrack into the gateway so if he instant shots after spawning gateway on top of you, he just misses firing forward. The adaption is to spawn gateway on side, but now you have to hit a survivor wiggling which is making you lose distance because your not moving and then even if you do hit them, your not making much distance in the hold-w metric. At loops, his power is a lot better but its prone to spawning chains in front of you which force you to break your own chains by walking through them and obstacles can instantly break the chains making your hits a null. In summary, high risk mechanic, low reward. At least he has decent generator defence with the box, but his add-on are heavily nerfed.
Legion was always weak to split up. Its just that before his change, he could not punish survivors for grouping up even though he is designed to do that. Now he can punish survivors grouping up but it relies on the survivor poor play to do so. His power still lacks elements of 1vs1 capacity. He also has nothing to force survivors into healing. He would greatly benefit from having lower terror radius so playing injured is more risky.
All 3 killer are pretty mediocre though I would say legion is most fun to play out of 3 of them.
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@mischiefmanaged said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3283051#Comment_3283051
One of Knight's best maps is probably Gideon. The guards ignore pallets and that makes the god loops completely unsafe. Since the map is small, it's also really easy to get a hunt started and survivors accidentally run into dead ends constantly.
When I first started playing him, I thought breaking pallets quickly with guards would be more common. I've been finding that using the sounds to locate survivors, place a guard, then start a hunt just make it to pallets don't exist in a way that's only replicated by Nurse.
I don't think he's as good as Nurse by any means. The hunts and damage states are too slow for that and his miss cooldown is much higher than Nurse. I'm mostly just saying people are underestimating just how strong he is when a hunt gets started and his ability to ignore pallets entirely is mostly unmatched outside of Nurse.
yep. its league better then clown. I agree. His ability to ignore pallets is emasculate but his time to down and shift-w guard makes his chases too slow for fast gen-type teams. Knight needs more refinement where as clown is just.... a clown.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Tell that to the ranged Killers. They will sure love it.
playing huntress and Wesker is annoying with all clutter. constant line of sight problem vs certain survivors.
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I feel like a clunky delay as well.
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@Grigerbest said:
With my expirience with both killers - The Knight is way far stronger than Clown:
- He don't care about pallets.
- He's more consistent with getting downs.
- Survivors only have 1 option to avoid his "sandwich" <_<. (It's DH)
- He's not spending much time to brake stuff. (Orders)
- Potencial to chase 2 survivors at the same time.
If you play the Knight correctly (not just tapping his power at loops), he's just very slightly weaker than Artist. Only because he needs more time to hit\down.
yeah that is my experience. I think knight is way superior clown and your reasons perfectly summarize it. knight's ability to shutdown loops makes maps like Garden of Joy and Gideon's meat packing plant look like a balanced looping map. I have only two issues with knight for why I think he is not strong enough. The first is lack of agency to counter shift-W between loops which extends my chases without any ability to -counter it- leading to slow time of down and all the add-on being too situational in terms of effectiveness.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282316#Comment_3282316
Clown has some of the best anti-loop in the game at the expense of map pressure. You can even mindgame by winding up and pulling down bottles without throwing them if survivors try to cheat and hold W. He gets a lot of free hits just by pulling out and holding a bottle. Survivors will try to dodge before he even throws it and you can just pull it down and M1. I'm not saying he's A or S tier by any means, but it's crazy to me that people go D or low C with him.
clown's anti-loop is probably biggest placebo anti-loop in the game. First of all, When it comes pallet loops, pre-dropping pallets is really strong at safe pallet loops because clown is not very good pallet eater-type killer. Most of the pallets that are safe, clown still has to break them. The purpose of anti-loop for killers is to shorten chases but the clown fails to shorten chases because the survivor can out-skill the clown's anti-loop in many situations. For example, if a survivor pre-drop a pallet and the clown throws a tonic at a pallet, breaks the pallet and the survivor gets 13 meters of distance, the survivor can account for the distance loss of clown's pink bottle. Suppose you have a pallet 12 meters away and a pallet 8 meters away, If you throw a pink bottle, the pink bottle allows you to catch-up 2 meters extra so now the survivor can only put forward for 11 meters which means that you can hit the survivor before he reaches Y pallet, but extra 2 meters of distance does not matter because the survivor can re-route to a closer a pallet(8 meter pallet) and still be safe. The summary of the problem is that clown cannot cut strong looping survivors off because distance gain per pink bottle is too insignificant if the survivors routing for pallet looping is high-level.
In term of rotating pallet loops/windows vs clown, If you are 180 degree adjacent to clown, clown has to walk around the long-side of loops which means he wastes bottle ammo for the "chance" that he possibly gets a 50/50 panic pallet slide from the survivors. If your guess is wrong, you will run out of bottles mid-chase which add's extra reloading time in chase where survivors can tactically leave loops and re-route back to same loop. Overall, my experience with clown playing pallet loops is that pallets that are long and somewhat safe have little variance in terms of time to down compare to another m1 killer simply because bloodlust is generally a safer option than using clown bottles even though it takes longer to acquire bloodlust 1 and bloodlust 2 because at least when you get it, your nearly 100% certain to get a hit where as Clown is just doing optional guessing with clown bottles where a single bad chase as killer can be a total loss for clown due to the gen speed of the game. Another thing to keep in mind is that clown is not very good user of generator defence perks because he has no mobility to kick generators and no tracking tools to make informed decisions(his entire macro game is blind).
Even when you are smashing survivors consecutively at loops, your map pressure still sucks and generator still fly even if your using RPF.
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it is not about kill-rate for killer's. it is about the gameplay satisfaction in playing said killer.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3282316#Comment_3282316
Clown has some of the best anti-loop in the game at the expense of map pressure. You can even mindgame by winding up and pulling down bottles without throwing them if survivors try to cheat and hold W. He gets a lot of free hits just by pulling out and holding a bottle. Survivors will try to dodge before he even throws it and you can just pull it down and M1. I'm not saying he's A or S tier by any means, but it's crazy to me that people go D or low C with him.
I think Knight is the worst killer in the game.
you answered the wrong part of the question for why.
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@danielmaster87 said:
As survivor? Any map with god pallets or windows, so I can waste an arbitrary amount of the killer's time without having any risk.
As killer, it's all about the same, so probably the new map for thematic purposes.
I laughed at this post when I first read it because it matched my thoughts precisely.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Clown is consistently underrated IMO. I put him in B tier.
I think Knight is the worst killer in the game.
why?
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@Adaez said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3279222#Comment_3279222
No they we're not the weakest,they we're high risk high reward,now they are no risk,high reward,because you can blind the killer from the silliest angles and still get the save,I was literally facing the wall and I still got blinded because the survivor got 1 frame right.
lightborn and franklin exists.
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he fought onepumpwillies. he is one-trick Onryo player. no one play billy.
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@Veinslay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278974#Comment_3278974
Lol that sounds like a ScottJund take. Every killer has to take ridiculous amounts of skill to have a chance to do decent while survivor takes basically zero skill whatsoever to win
dbd in nutshell. auto-pilot free wins as survivor. Sweat all day with weak killer powers that lack skill expression from killer end. Knight is just joining the 80% of the killer cast.
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@The_Daydreamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278144#Comment_3278144
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3277784#Comment_3277784
Did you guys even read the thread? Like I said, there is a reason why killer feel forced to always pick the same addons. My point was, that we need to rework addons and buff the basekit of the killers. Since f.e. Blight Mains may feel forced to always feel double speed addons, so they can compete with survivors. That's why we need to buff is rush speed but reduce the impact of addons. Buff the yellow addon, delete the green one and make it to something that can help the killer. I just think, that putting the same type of addon was always a bad design in dbd since it makes it clear that the basekit is lacking.
My point was not to "Omg this killer is so OP Nerf!!!" - my point was to buff the basekit and make the addons more enjoyable for both sides.
they run double speed add-on because these add-on give you the most advantage. I think premise behind add-on is that you can customize how your killer becomes stronger. Supposedly, the killer becomes stronger based off how you want it to become stronger. The problem is that many killers have one dimensional play-style where being stronger is one dimensional choice which removes the agency to experiment.
survivor complain when the killer base-kit is strong, as a result, the having weak base-kit and add-on to improve base-kit to what it should be is the best compromise.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278146#Comment_3278146
I mean... you do have to press it at a critical point? When you have reached enough distance so basically right when you are colliding with the wall... That's not a basic skill... These kind of windows are really rough to fast vault, and that's exactly what I meant.... When you have a lot of space you can fast vault them rather early and not care much about timing, but when the space is narrow you need to execute it properly... And that's pretty skillfull I think...
dead dog saloon inside window is pretty easy to fast vault though. I can't think of any window that is hard to fast vault. As I said, basic survivor skill imo.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3278130#Comment_3278130
I would say the skill floor as survivor consists of using pallets and windows, nothing more... Everything that goes beyond that is somewhere between floor and ceiling...
What I meant with aligning for a fast vault was for example in a 4 wall or on Saloon the upper window from the inside... When you are able to align a fast vault with little space...
fast vaulting windows is pretty basic imo. Ayrun had a video recently where he was vaulting suffocation pit window. i think it would be cool if survivor could do a critical-fast window vault where pressing the button at the correct time does a fast vault instead of a medium vault. I kinda wish there was a greater skill-cap to fast vaulting and medium vaulting windows rather then x distance means you cannot fast vault and y distance means you can. something comparable to headshots in fps games. in general, i wish window vaulting was more rewarding and safe pallet looping was less strong.