Clockwork_Enigma
Clockwork_Enigma
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I like how they did this but didn't do the same for Blight or Oni.
Really good job so far. A labor of love, I say.
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Wait what do you mean you removed something that took skill to perform?
Oh well, that's a few bucks I'm saving. I'm not playing a Killer that's basically a dumbed down Billy.
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So can we just get him reworked again, devs? This version of Trickster is objectively worse to play both as a Killer and for the fun of playing.
And still doesn't solve the issue of Survivors being put into lose-lose situations against him.
Honestly, I'd just overhaul him to be an actual mobility Killer that people would like rather than a ranged Killer nobody actually likes.
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This is truly a "default idle stance" moment.
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@HugTechLover said:
No. This would only incentivize pre-drop gameplay, and removes a level of skill from counterplay, like being able to time a drop against bubba to avoid the pallet break. Same concept.
You realize that this would also:
- Remove the ability for Blight to be an anti-loop Killer.
- Add more reason for Survivors to actually drop a pallet on top of Blights.
- Incentivize Blights to think of strategies to properly get around loops.
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@KaTo1337 said:
Just one question:
WHO ASKED FOR TRICKSTER-BUFFS?
We discuss about Blight, Freddy, Pig, Trapper and Skull Merchant a lot.
2 of them were adressed, but why did they choose Trickster over Twins, Freddy and others?
You would be genuinely surprised.
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@Smoe said:
It's specifically an anti-facecamp mechanic, it was never meant to fix camping in of itself.
16 meters sounds like a distance where you're no longer facecamping. Do you not remember what facecamping actually looks like? Here's a refresher:
And you want to know how far this supposed "anti-facecamp" mechanic extends? This is how far I have to go before it stops:
This is not face camping, this is proximity camping. And even if that 16 meter range somehow was, then me being out of the aura reading range of the Tapp means that I'm no longer considered "face camping" even if I'm a mere .1 meter farther from him.
So no, this is not an anti-facecamping mechanic. This is an anti-camping mechanic, and one that needs a significant overhaul if it wants to do its job against certain Killers such as Huntress, such as Cannibal, such as Trickster, such as Hag.
This mechanic effectively only prevents M1-only Killers or Killers with single-hit mid-ranged abilities from camping and contesting with Survivors. Not ranged, mobility, instant down or multi-hit Killers, or killers who have access to abilities to get back to the hook almost instantaneously.
This is why it needs to be changed.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3532097#Comment_3532097
I'd take his sprint ability over the rocket launcher as it doesn't really belong in this game.
It makes Nemesis "Nemesis" if he has the ability to use weapons.
There is absolutely zero problem in giving Nemesis the weapon he is known for using in the majority of his game if you can balance it.
Besides, we have a Killer who can spit out goo balls of technology and biology, a Killer who quite literally puts skulls on drones in an attempt to look edgy and scary, and three weapons Survivors can use to harm the Killer in some capacity now (Flash Grenade, Flame Turret, Ice Bomb). A rocket launcher belongs if these can belong.
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More like this:
Tentacle Strike
- Nemesis no longer has access to the Lunge Attack ability, but still has access to the Basic Attack ability.
- Tentacle Strike replaces the ability to Lunge Attack, now being charge-based (1 second) with more charging increasing its range. Once fully charged, it can be held but slows Nemesis down when being held.
- Tentacle Strike can still hit Survivors over pallets and certain areas, but due to the highly telegraphed start-up this should not be an issue.
- Tentacle Strike still counts as a Special Attack, preventing it from being stacked with perks such as Sloppy Butcher or Save the Best for Last.
- Tentacle Strike still requires the Survivor be Contaminated before being able to injure them.
Contamination
- Contamination now builds up over time upon a Survivor being hit by Tentacle Strike and can be further increased with more hits.
- Contamination now has a negative downside of the Infected Status Effect, which causes Survivors to continuously cough loudly and allows Tentacle Strike to put them into the Dying State in one hit.
- Vaccines can now respawn over a period of 60 seconds per Supply Case.
- Vaccines now stop the progression of Contamination and cause it to decay over time, but if the Survivor is hit by Tentacle Strike or a Zombie again, the progression will resume but they will not receive instant progression.
- Vaccines fully decontaminate any Survivor that is afflicted with the Infected Status Effect.
Mutation
- Mutation is now a progressive system similar to Blood Fury.
- Mutation requires a total of 15 points in order to reach Maximum Mutation.
- Maximum Mutation grants the following effects to Tentacle Strike:
- Increases Tentacle Strike range by 1 meter if held for an additional 0.3 seconds after fully charging.
- Grants Tentacle Strike the ability to break pallets and walls upon fully charging.
- Grants Tentacle Strike the ability to damage and contaminate Generators.
Rocket Launcher
- Rocket Launcher replaces the Tentacle Strike ability as the Power Button attack.
- Rocket Launcher is another charge-based attack that slows Nemesis down by a significant amount (-75%), but allows him to send out a singular projectile towards an unfortunate Survivor.
- Rocket Launcher isn't loaded at the start of the Trial, instead taking 30 seconds for the first one to load.
- Rocket Launcher missiles take 60 seconds to reload after being fired, but this can be shortened using Tentacle Strike.
- Rocket Launcher missile cooldown can be seen on the launcher itself.
- Rocket Launcher has a laser sight that indicates where it is going to fire, allowing for Survivors to possibly counter it.
- Missiles can break pallets and walls, or damage generators, on direct hit with them.
- Survivors and Nemesis can hear Nemesis roaring when he brings up the Rocket Launcher.
- Survivors directly hit by a missile (or within 1 meter of the blast) will be injured by the attack.
- Survivors within the splash zone of the missile will be Hindered (-20%) for 5 seconds and be revealed by Killer Instinct for that duration of time.
Zombies
- Zombies now have a new ability to those that are Infected. When within range of an Infected survivor, the Zombie will dash forward up to two times in order to try grabbing at and biting the vulnerable Survivor, which damages them.
- Zombies can also further increase the contamination progress of a Survivor when they hit them.
- Zombies can be notified to go to a specific location by the explosion sound of the Rocket Launcher.
- Zombies have AI pathing improvements and animation changes to make them feel like they do in the RE games.
Pretty much a change that could redefine how Killers can be made, and gives Nemesis more identity as himself with the addition of the Rocket Launcher. (The Rocket Launcher might be hotly debated, but it's one of his most defining features as a horror antagonist and is very easy to balance in a game like this.)
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Addendum, since I would like to voice my thoughts on how to improve the portraits:
- The Trapper's could just be his default face that he shares in many of his renders.
- The Doctor's should have him gazing at you while one arm is raised up, like he's ready to use Static Blast.
- The Executioner's should have him with sword planted to ground and arm reaching out toward you.
- The Trickster's should have him looking at you while having all knives out ready to throw.
- The Cenobite's should have the portals on the chains.
- The Onryo's needs to be updated to look similar to her art render.
- The Dredge's should have him face the person and not be the previous icon.
- The Mastermind's should have him adjusting his glasses with a grin on his face.
- The Knight should just take Executioner's current icon.
- The Skull Merchant
- The Singularity could easily be looming above and attempting to grab you like he's about to Mori you.
The real problems I generally have are the generic icons that use the previous poses of the Killers' icons, like Trickster and then Dredge onward. It doesn't feel right that everyone else got a change but these characters didn't. It makes the roster feel incomplete.
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Let me give you guys a reality check since you don't seem to understand.
Lightborn in its current state is a useless perk. The moment any team or individual realizes they aren't blinding you, the benefits of the perk become useless and you have what is effectively an empty perk slot.
You would get maybe one, two uses of Lightborn in its current state, at best. Then it's useless.
Even then, it's a crutch perk that people without skill use to mitigate something that is meant to outplay them. So removing the ability to nullify an entire item (and instead just making it reduce its power) is a must. Just because you guys are afraid of a niche scenario happening once in a blue moon in games (e.g. Flashlight squads) shouldn't cloud your judgement over the fact this is a completely unhealthy perk in the game at the moment.
Now.
As for the version of the perk I created, this would be more commonly used simply due to the fact players will almost never know you're running Lightborn. Even if they realize it, the change to remove its nullification of blinding means that Survivors will still be inclined to hit you with any source of light more often.
The result?
- You get to use the perk more.
- You get rid of the blindness 50% faster.
- You get 50% stun resistance to any source of light-related stun (Blast Mine or Rescuing).
So you think it's a nerf, but in fact it's a buff to its overall utility and, in an era of the game that doesn't need perks like the current version of Lightborn, is 100% healthier for the game.
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@Smoe said:
It's too similar to Trickster's lobby music, they should make an entirely unique one just like every other Survivor with their own theme.
I still hate that they didn't make an entirely new lobby theme for Cheryl but instead just used Pyramid's theme.
I disagree. They should make it similar (but not exactly alike) to Trickster's theme to show she still had a hand in what he did. She covered up what he did and so she deserves a theme similar to him.
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@Boons123 said:
Because of one build this person killed all perk
Oh right, tunneling is now easier than ever
Because of multiple perks, this person (me) reworked everything to actually have a purpose and be either more thematically fitting or a lot more powerful than ever before.
Oh right, tunneling will be even harder with the new WGLF, for example.
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Reasons for each change:
- The Trapper should have the ability to more consistently use traps in areas where Survivors will most likely be on the map. The change allows him to be able to not have to pick them up constantly to set them down at the start of the game.
- The Wraith's previous version of his post-uncloak movement speed allowed him to be a lot more terrifying and gave him the ability to contend with Killers that are currently a lot better than him. This also allows him to feel better to play overall.
- The Hillbilly had a small thing known as "Sky Billy", where he was able to do fantastic stunts in the game and allowed for fun and creative ways to play the Killer otherwise. The change allows him to do that, but also removes the "Space Billy" effect by giving him a maximum cap on his height gain.
- The Nurse should be punished for using her Blinks or Blink Attacks incorrectly, so I feel as if a 6 second stun duration for being outplayed would be really good balance-wise.
- The Shape's fall-off penalty is way too high considering his character, so I believe increasing it from 10% stalk gain to 50% stalk gain would allow him to earn higher tiers faster and make him feel better.
- The Doctor having the ability to hold Shock Therapy would unlock a new level of depth to the character and how to play as and against him, increasing the potential of being picked.
- The Nightmare having Dream Pallets be basekit would allow him to use an effect that is locked in his add-ons that should have become basekit since his rework. It also means he can be a more interesting chase-based Killer.
- The Pig's crouch transition speed is way too slow for the type of Killer she is supposed to be. The change to that would allow her to better stalk Survivors and use her special attack in more situations.
- The Clown's Afterpiece Antidote seemed like an Afterpiece Afterthought in its current version, since its effects don't really apply until late and do not provide Clown with something substantial to be used with the Tonic. However, this change would give it a unique boost to allow it to be used more often.
- The Spirit's add-on rarity of both the Kintsugi Teacup and the Dried Cherry Blossom didn't make sense for the power each one had. This should fix that.
- The Legion's BFFs add-on really didn't feel like it was getting much use, so the change I made to it would allow it to see more uses in more situations than ever before.
- The Plague's Vile Purge seems to reward her for doing the bare minimum, especially when she uses the add-ons to increase Vile Purge infection rates. This should incentivize charging her power a little more to get its full effectiveness.
- The Ghost Face often has trouble whenever trying to go after multiple Survivors and keeping a low profile. If a Survivor is marked, why should that mark expire if they're put into the Dying State and not when hooked? So let's make it so that they remain marked while downed, just to allow him to ambush other Survivors that are around.
- The Oni's flicks are completely unintended and cause great frustration among Survivors who are hit at what should be impossible angles. This change would fix that.
- The Deathslinger having a slower ADS deactivation never made sense, so now both the activation and deactivation times are the same, allowing him to better aim and fire his weapon whenever he possibly can.
- The Executioner having a change to Punishment of the Damned back a few PTBs ago was a really interesting change, if a little misguided on what it should do. So I've thought of a version of it that is significantly less toxic but still rewards the Executioner player with getting good hits and timely downs.
- The Blight's "hug tech" is a significant issue when going against the Killer since it is clearly an unintentional part of his kit. This change, like Oni's flick change, would fix that.
- The Trickster feels like he's being rewarded for spamming his projectiles too much, but I think that he should be rewarded for hitting his projectiles at a manual rate. Each click or press of a button after the initial throw allows him to deal 50% more damage, which gives him just that little more depth to his Power than simply holding to spam.
- The Nemesis' fast speed is one of his most well-known aspects in the Resident Evil series. In order to respect that part of him but not go overboard with it, he should be able to be the fastest Killer in the game in terms of base movement speed. Additionally, this would allow for the ability to toy around with the movement speed of future Killers.
- The Artist's ability to place Dire Crows down to deny loops needs to be less incentivized and her ability to pelt opponents with them one swarm at a time should be more incentivized, so a cooldown increase after disintegration would be the right call.
- The Onryo currently has a rather insidious playstyle that still promotes slugging in most cases. However, this change would no longer incentivize slugging and more so incentivize hooking the Survivor.
- The Dredge not having the ability to go into an unlocked locker in the double lockers prop seems a bit too forced, but I understand why he can't do it initially. However, given that, I feel that he should still be able to go into the unlocked one if he so chooses, so I believe changing it so that he needs to teleport to it again would be the best of both worlds.
- The Mastermind's Virulent Bound is currently in an odd place with ledges. Unlike every other mobility-based ability, it does not like them. This change would allow him to now go off ledges just like any other mobility ability while keeping his ability to jet himself across a huge chunk of some maps.
- The Knight's Guardia Compagnia feels like it could use some love in the cycling department. After all, it feels like a waste of time to continuously cycle through each individual guard to use the ones you most prefer. Thus this change was added to give him not only that ability, but a lot of depth that allows him to be a more interesting Killer to go against.
- The Skull Merchant's Drones seem way too effective at making it so that Survivors can be forced into situations where matches last way too long. So, to add a little risk to the reward of placing Drones near Generators, the Skull Merchant now gives Survivors a 10% increase to repair speeds.
- The Singularity currently has an issue with Biopods where it is unable to lock on to a Survivor even if most of their body or part of their body is exposed, simply because a small, itty bitty piece of their body can't be seen. That has been changed so that even the littlest bit of the Survivor's hitbox will now allow Biopods to lock on to them.
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What my hopes for Xenomorph are:
- Ability to move very fast and very stealthily, possibly even moving above certain obstacles and on walls.
- Ability to attack from said walls by leaping toward Survivors.
- Ability to use the tail to pierce through Survivors, with the ability to instantly down Survivors if they're hit through a wall.
What my expectations for Xenomorph are:
- Cocoon.
- Egg.
- Acid.
- Some sort of loop denial ability.
This is why I'm scared for the chapter. Something unique would be amazing, but the expectations I have are probably what will happen.
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@Nazzzak said:
I'm confused. If you read every other recent thread on Sadako there are killer/Sadako mains saying to literally do this (grab and hold a tape) as a counter to her persistent ability to transport and shut down TVs.
But that's not even fun to do for either side. Holding anything hostage is not good design, if you remember what happened with Twins.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490947#Comment_3490947
they're anti-face camping mechanics. its weird because every killer has different amount of punishment for facecamping. If you think artist range is crazy, you should look at Twin's victor radius. They will eventually implement the anti-face camping mechanics where survivor can jump off a hook after 59 seconds of a hook stage if you hard-camp the hook. Perhaps they will revise or remove some of these restrictions on killer power because they are little bit silly for some killers.
They're the wrong kind of anti-face camping mechanics simply due to the fact that they could just remove the Flight Path from Dire Crows:
- Within 10 meters of a hooked Survivor
- And facing said Survivor.
That would make face camping still as non-existent as it is now.
@Deathlymusic_ said:
Hi,
Got about 2000 hrs on artist (actually mains her) here if you don't mind weighing in.
NO THANK YOU.
Artist needs to be able to hit people directly at tiles as otherwise she has zero zoning mechanics which will completely take her from A to Low B. This allows her to prevent the unhook. That's the first major issue.
The second issue, artist is probably the 3rd best face camper in the game with dms. Imagine being able to completely stall a game and force 3 survivors to have to come hook save consistently. I think all that would have to be coded to solve her issue with not being able to use her power around the hook is make it so if she's facing the survivor she can't put her bird down. That's it, really no need to over complicate it. But also, that's really not even necessary. Like ya sometimes it's annoying not being able to use my power around a loop, but it rarely makes or breaks the match.
First and foremost, in what world did I say remove her ability to hit people at tiles? There was no mention of tile play, just the inability to use her power near a hook in instances that should be very reasonable.
Second, your idea is still similar to my idea but worse. My idea is to simply remove her ability to set down a flight path when within a certain range of a hooked Survivor, while looking at said Survivor, which should almost NEVER come into play if done correctly.
Lastly, with regards to being the "third best face camper in the game", that is hard to believe given the fact that you have Cannibal, Trickster, Billy, Myers, Legion, Plague and Huntress as big contenders. Shape, too, if you count add-on potential. She is nowhere NEAR the third best face camper, and your mention of DMS only really works if:
- Survivors are working on the generators
- Survivors are too afraid of being hit by the initial wave of birds
- You hit all three of the other Survivors somehow
- You know where each Survivor is at a given moment
- Then if all three Survivors aren't afraid of your birds the first time, you wait for a longer time to then hit them again to force them off the generator about 12 seconds later.
Otherwise, you're on a large cooldown while giving the Survivors the benefit of continuing to repair generators while you simultaneously are unable to facecamp as effectively as the aforementioned Killers. Your face camping in that scenario hinges on Survivors being unaware and you being aware of their locations at the same time.
Basically what I'm saying is that your facecamp with DMS is way too situational to become a problem.
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@dbdthegame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3490728#Comment_3490728
Bud, you can set up 3 birds at 10m out facing the hook, and guarantee a hit on anyone approaching it, which guarantees the M1 follow up. You don't need to shove the bird down the hooked survivor's throat to get a hit. I said it and I'll say it again, Artist is a strong facecamper. Watch Deshy's stream to see her power level.
A Survivor should theoretically never even get damaged by a Dire Crow that's facing towards a hook due to the range restriction being larger than that of the flight path itself.
If you set up Dire Crows within 10 meters of a hook, but their effective range is 7.5 meters (not 8 as I stated before), that is a whole 2.5 meters range between them and the hooked Survivor which prevents them from actually damaging.
Look at this and tell me with a straight face behind that monitor of yours that this will hit:
That little area in the very end is when they turn into a Swarm.
Wherein they become this just before they even make contact with the hooked Survivor. And let's not forget that if Artist wants to get a hit in on Survivors by camping in this manner, the Survivors have to travel within the beam's length and run into it haphazardly.
And again, Survivors can just bait the Artist into throwing them out or she'll have to go on cooldown anyway if she lets them disintegrate. The notion that Artist is a strong face camper is ludicrous when she has to not only go out of her way to set up a temporary system, but one that can actually not work at all.
And this is even ignoring the fact that I made the suggestion to REMOVE the ability to injure Survivors outright if they're pointed towards hooked Survivors as part of the changes so that it doesn't get campier as a result of removing the range restriction.
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@dbdthegame said:
This is an intended feature. Artist is already a very strong facecamper since she can still set up birds that face the hook and are close enough to hit, and birds have very shory recovery delay. Nothing to discuss here.
Birds' Flight Paths (the areas that directly injure Survivors) are 8 meters.
Artist's range restriction facing Survivors is 10 meters.
Artist can only place up to 4 birds at a time and can be baited into using them incorrectly or may not even injure the Survivors off the bat.
Additionally, the more crows that Artist places, the longer her cooldown after sending them off will be. Even if she doesn't send them off, she still incurs a cooldown that prevents her from spawning birds in the first place.
Even if Artist does send off her birds, she'll still have to manage to HIT a Survivor, and will actually reap less rewards just trying to M1 them than going for her power.
"Strong face camper", by the way.
Also you completely miss the point of what I'm trying to say considering the fact that I've showed images where I'm trying to NOT aim for the hooked Quentin and want to use my Power in a proactive way (i.e. try to locate Survivors away from the hook) but cannot simply because of the range restriction.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Please no. Current RPD is by no means perfect but it’s far better than what we had before. The original RPD was way too big.
It was one of the smallest maps in the game in terms of surface area. It's even smaller now.
@Orthane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384361/the-r-p-d-needs-another-rework
Tbh, I feel like it's mostly fine and balanced, it's too confusing to learn at first, but once you learn it the map is actually pretty fun imo.
Again, as someone who has played RPD (probably more than anyone in DbD's existence), the map itself is okay, but it's not the best it could be. Still a bit of god pallets and loops that are imbalanced, and overall doesn't feel like it's a good set of maps.
One map is way too small and the other is West Wing.
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@Zer0 said:
- Nerf: Bloodlust's movement speed bonus is reduced to 3%/5%/7%.
Lol what on earth are you talking about.
That's the speed in each tier. 3% (tier 1), 5% (tier 2) and 7% (tier 3). The movement speed itself should NOT be as rewarding as it is and trying to overcommit to a chase should be discouraged heavily.
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@Peanits said:
I just want to start by saying that nobody on our team has said that. Us including disconnect bots is by no means us acting like the disconnect penalties are perfect where they are. Like everything, it's up for discussion. If you feel they are too short, you can always argue that. DC bots are not some master scheme to convince you that these exact times are the perfect length.
That said, I do need to point out a few of the reason why they are the way that the are. By design, DC penalties start very low because there are unavoidable circumstances where you might lose connection. Whether your internet drops briefly, your game crashes, your power goes out, or maybe some unexpected company shows up at the door: There are some valid reasons why you might need to leave in the middle of the match. The purpose of these penalties is not to lock you out and shame you because you had to leave one match.
The system is meant to discourage people from disconnecting from an excessive number of matches. This is why they get exponentially longer the more you do it, and why DC penalties don't reset all at once, but rather slowly decrease over time as long as they don't continue to disconnect.
Now whether or not it is effective in doing that, that's for you to decide, I'm not going to convince you one way or the other.
I want to get onto the point you made on the third line--the point that the system is meant to discourage people from disconnecting an excessive amount of times. While I do think that the idea itself is fair enough and paved with good intentions, would it not be better to try and find another way to discourage players from excessively disconnecting aside from removing them from gameplay for an equally as excessive time?
Like would it be possible to maybe look into making the player lose more Pips as they disconnect from matches and possibly de-Grade (similarly to the previous de-Ranking) if they continue to do so? That could give you the opportunity to make disconnect penalty timers as low as possible or even outright remove them since there would be a much more tangible punishment for players.
Perhaps the development team could consider this route and see how it fares in a PTB or maybe even make it the next Betas option since the Wiggling change?
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@nars said:
bloodlust doesnt need any changes. It exists as a patch to bad loop and map design for m1 killers to actually have a chance.
besides if their getting bloodlust 2-3 consistently they are overcommitting way too much and are gonna lose that game.
And you realize that the map design has been consistently getting better over time? Most loops you can easily get around without using Bloodlust, even with M1 Killers.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/384127/oppression-needs-love
coup de Grace got changed in the 7.1.0 - Nicholas Cage mid-chapter patch, where it received a massive buff that allowed it to gain up to 10 tokens maximum in the Trial, with 2 tokens gained every Generator popped.
that is wrong. you can still only hold 5 stacks. they only increased the amount of stacks gained for losing a generator from 1->2.
I know it's 5 stacks max, but I'm talking potential over the course of the match.
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Lots of you guys are quite literally missing the point of what I'm saying with Survivor body blocking, so I'll put it in one sentence you'll all still misinterpret:
The recently UNHOOKED SURVIVOR being the body blocker is the problem.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/383943/iridescent-king-should-be-reworked
isn't that just pyramid head?
Pretty much, but with its own flair.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
Having BP bonuses on perks decreases perk variety.
If removing Prove Thyself's BP bonus makes survivor BP gain too low, it means survivor BP gain needs to be increased at base, not given to perks. Bloodpoints also shouldn't be used as an incentive to play in a fun or more healthy way. BBQ's BP bonus was an incentive to spread out your hooks as killer and not stay near the hook, but it was a band-aid for the bigger issue of camping and tunneling being unfun and too effective (as well as a band-aid for the grind being abysmal back then).
That is actually incorrect. Having BP bonuses on perks doesn't reduce perk variety, for if that were the case, then Killers would have been running Barbecue & Chili, Distressing, Beast of Prey and Thrill of the Hunt in their games on a constant back when Barbecue had the Bloodpoint bonus.
But they didn't.
And just about everyone on the Survivor team would be running Prove Thyself and We're Gonna Live Forever all the time because of the Bloodpoint bonuses.
But they didn't.
If Bloodpoint bonus perks were solely the reason that perk variety was reduced, then surely Distressing, Beast of Prey and Thrill of the Hunt would be getting their effects axed as soon as possible, too, but they aren't the main reason why people ran those perks.
The reason that people ran BBQ, Prove Thyself and WGLF was that their BP Bonuses were tied with extremely strong main effects from the perks: Barbecue's aura reading from a distance, Prove Thyself's cooperative repair speed bonus and WGLF's 100% healing speed to dying Survivors. On the contrary, people never ran Distressing, Beast of Prey or Thrill of the Hunt solely because of the opposite reasons; though they provided substantial BP bonuses for score events, their effects were either negatively impacting or not useful to the Killer in the slightest.
And to get to your second point regarding BP gain, BP gain is currently fine in most circumstances (except for Brutality and Sacrifice for Killer score events, which do NOT have BP gain modifiers). The perks that did BP gain bonuses are only offering additional effects and aren't completely necessary to run. Again, think about it like this, if Prove Thyself was ONLY the BP modifier, then no one would be running Prove Thyself whatsoever.
To your third point, too, there were more perks prior to and BBQ's BP bonus incentive removal that also incentivized spreading out hooks as Killer and not staying near the hook. Perks like Hex: Devour Hope, No Way Out, Grim Embrace and (currently) Pain Resonance all are examples of perks that force the Killer into playing in a healthier manner for greater reward, which in turn is a band-aid for the bigger issue of camping and tunneling being unfun and too effective. BBQ was effectively only being used as a scapegoat to get RID of a perk's ability to create this playstyle because it WAS the most used perk of this type.
And even then, what is the problem for having a perk incentivize people playing in a manner that isn't toxic? The point of these perks was to incentivize players into being more fair and fun toward other players, and the removal of these perk effects does the exact opposite effect, which is that now people are acting like complete arseholes to each other in the games more consistently. Shouldn't there be MORE incentives to be a fair and fun player to go against, to be a player that is actually trying to not be toxic? Not less incentives? That is what I don't understand.
@Annso_x said:
BHVR is right about this move, players shouldn't be encouraged to use some perks for BPs, for example WGLF is really rare to see since it doesn't have the bonus anymore, so clearly a bunch of survivors were wasting a perk slot on it solely for the BPs.
What needs to be reworked is the BP score events and how many BPs you can gain per game.
Or it could be the fact that there are just significantly better perks to run now than there were prior to the BP removal, many of which can do the same or a similar job to WGLF but better. Even Buckle Up is now getting this effect and better.
Even before the removal of the BP incentive, I've never seen that many people running WGLF in games simply because of the fact that the perk wasn't strong comparatively to other perks back at the time. You know, perks like Unbreakable, Iron Will, Decisive Strike and Dead Hard.
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@jmoyano92 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3476476#Comment_3476476
Survivors want free escapes with no effort. Most survivors are dumb and refuse to get better at the game so they cry loud about everything. I've even had players disconnecting against me, while playing perkless Trapper/Myers with no addons...
OP was probably one of them. That sums it up.
Unfortunately you'd be incorrect. If you were actually paying attention, I asked for it to be nerfed as a Killer main. The perk is simply too good in its current state and is an optimal choice whenever I decide to play as Nemesis (primarily), Wraith or Legion.
I know more about this perk's utility than you think, which is why I suggested the nerfs that I did, because unlike you, I do not want a perk that incentivizes camping and tunneling to such extents as the perk provides.
The fact that you and a couple of other people here are somehow against making it a non-tunneling and non-camping perk shows that you do not have the interest of fairness in mind for both sides, but rather you have the interest of easy matches and free kills, contradicting your first sentence in your statement, too.
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@Predated said:
Problem here is that nemmy is already a 115% killer with quite a decent range who is already quite good at tunnelling, making him faster would make him a better tunneller.
With that in mind, I do think the movementspeed buff could be applied on when nemmy is drawing out his tentacle, OR infected survivors should increase the walking speed of zombies.
Either that, or his iri addon shouldnt be able to down or injure survivors with the tentacle (the 60 second respawn is still really beneficial to nemmy, since it takes time to use, which slows down the game). Slap on STBFL with this addon, and all you have to do is infect 2 people, and you're a tunnelling machine. Remove the ability to down or injure survivors, and Nemmy, while zooming, would need to use his speed to push survivors towards zombies more.
Personally, I would be in favor of this addon making each infected survivor buff zombies(speed, detection range, reduced attack cooldowns)
There is a reason that I'm not buffing zombies with this add-on, period: Zombie add-ons are the WORST add-ons in The Nemesis' arsenal and, in my opinion, should mostly be removed.
That said, the reason I made it into the add-on you see here is because it fits in line with the character. Additionally, if you believe that this would make him a better tunneller, you must also have to acknowledge that this would also make him better with map mobility and spreading map pressure around all other Survivors, thus removing the need to tunnel in the first place.
This add-on works best when you are NOT tunneling, after all. You need to hit every Survivor to gain the speed boost and you need to keep that infection going or else you risk losing not only your "tunneling" ability, but the other, better benefits of running this add-on.
So there's more to this add-on than the tunneling aspect. It's the ability to do MORE with Nemesis than that.
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@adaw0ng said:
Sadly they said last year that they didn't want people to choose perks based on bloodpoint gains and that was the purpose of queue/role incentives, so it was meant to be that PTS would lose that part (even though the bloodpoints don't exceed the cap for the category)
And yet Beast of Prey, Thrill of the Hunt AND Distressing all have Bloodpoint gain increases.
And they also have BP gain increases through add-ons.
Also like you mentioned, Prove Thyself increased the amount of Bloodpoints gained through SCORE EVENTS, NOT EVEN THE TOTAL AMOUNT.
So this is incredibly inconsistent.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/381585/bhvr-an-eyes-in-the-sky-power-rework
75% faster movement speed? Rushdown might as well just read "you get hit every 30 seconds". these bonuses are higher then original feral frenzy legion.
Another aspect to talk about is that average skull merchant match at most has 1 drone hacked so these number of 4/8/12/16 TR. they're kinda meaningless because nobody would go to such length to buff the killer. Haste effect is more universally useful for m1 killer then lower terror radius. If anything you don't want to take claw trap at all when playing vs skull merchant. I am not exactly sure why survivors hack drones in the match that I play but the typical amount of bonus you get is 1 arm trap active at a time.
I do not not have many comments other than these changes would make people hate skull merchant even more.
The idea for the 75% boost in movement speed is purely because of the low duration of the ability itself and the fact that Skull Merchant would be very visible upon activating it.
Something I will clarify is that it would have a 2.5 second activation time, allowing for Survivors to better prepare themselves for the assault.
And since this is a single-hit only type of attack with a cooldown, the 75% boost in movement speed for that amount of duration is completely justifiable.
Additionally, the Terror Radius aspect is supposed to go hand in hand with the ultimate goal of the changes--to make Skull Merchant feel less like an anti-loop Killer and emphasize her ability of reconnaissance and stealth. Hence why whenever a Survivor is within a drone's range, your Terror Radius shrinks as a result.
And another thing that I might add regarding my design philosophy is that I'm getting rid of what people hate the most about the Skull Merchant in the first place: the Exposed effect. That one little effect there causes the Skull Merchant to become an anti-looping, 3-genning character that feels horrible to play against. So in order to mitigate that, it is just flat removed from this concept entirely and so she can have a more balanced and interesting kit to play around that is both consistent and useful.
These changes would make people start to like Skull Merchant since she would have interesting counterplay to her kit while making you feel like you don't need to be forced to play in a certain way as either side in order to win.
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@JackOfTrades said:
I feel like most add-ons are fine, yet the only addons that might need to be changed are the iri addons, because they are crap and don't actually fit him. They are PH iri addons in a nutshell.
Most of his add-ons currently are slight modifications to already pre-existing lesser add-ons. All of the ones from uncommon upward need some sort of change if they aren't unique enough to justify staying the same.
Plus, I want Nemesis' add-ons to stray away from being dependent on factors outside of Nemesis' own control.
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To add to this idea, imagine how dope it'd be to see Doctor holding his Shock Therapy charge again from the Survivor POV. Guy walks like an absolute unit ready to unleash Hell on you.
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@Seraphor said:
It's creative. But being unable to use basic attacks for any period of time brings back the issues with old Freddy, so I doubt that's ever going to happen.
Hence not just the recall mechanic, but its ability to work AS a basic attack even as a projectile, which is actually huge if you think about it. The amount of synergy and depth this version would have would be nuts.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Nemesis needs an add-on pass. Y'know what, I'll just list some random add-ons that could be given to him:
- After reaching the maximum Mutation Rate, Survivors damaged by Tentacle Strike drop their item.
- After reaching the maximum Mutation Rate, Survivors damaged by Tentacle Strike are inflicted with the Hemorrhage status effect until healed.
- After reaching the maximum Mutation Rate, Survivors damaged by Tentacle Strike are inflicted with the Mangled status effect until healed.
- Each time you raise your Mutation Rate, the auras of Survivors within 24 meters are shown to you for 5 seconds.
- Decreases the successful hit cool-down of Tentacle Strike by 10%.
- Decreases the stun time of Zombies when blinded by 50%
I think those add-ons would be pretty interesting for Nemesis, but I do also believe that many of these would just be niche, like the item drop one.
I do like the last three, though, they sound pretty neat.
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@Milo said:
Wouldn't this be the 100% use add-on then? Or am I completely missing how Nemesis functions?
Well, consider this; his top two add-ons happen to be:
- Marvin's Blood (increases mutation gained from hitting Survivors)
- Broken Recovery Coin (removes 1 Supply Case)
All of his other add-ons are pretty much worthless simply because of the fact they are either Survivor-dependent, too limited, Zombie dependent or otherwise. Adrenaline Injector happens to be the first two and it gives no downsides otherwise.
The new version of it that I'm proposing basically adds another add-on that Nemesis can use that can replace either Marvin's Blood or the Broken Recovery Coin, but still allow both to be used at a high rate as well.
And since it would only apply on hit, that means it would incentivize Nemesis players to go for more hits to possibly earn the reward (if they're good enough) rather than just "me break pallets".
@sizzlingmario4 said:
That’s overpowered for a yellow addon.
But yes they should change it, or at least swap the rarities.
- Black Heart is a Common add-on for Demogorgon.
- Wooden Horse is a Common add-on for Nurse and applies when missing.
- Never-Sleep Pills is an Uncommon add-on for Legion.
- Marvin's Blood is an Uncommon add-on for Nemesis.
- Potent Tincture and Emetic Potion are Uncommon add-ons for Plague.
- Death Engravings is an Uncommon add-on for Hillbilly.
- This:
The point is, it's not. Compared to all of these and then some, especially.
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Platform: All
Description: Complete the Evolution (achievement) can be achieved on ANY Killer using a Hindering effect.
Steps to Reproduce: Use Wesker.
How Often: Yes.
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@jesterkind said:
Anything that allows survivors to work on generators while Incapacitated, even at a reduced rate, is a giant nerf to the Twins that they don't deserve. It'd be catastrophic for a survivor to be able to hold their power hostage and still contribute to the generator repair, it's already pretty bad even knowing that survivor can't be doing gens while holding Victor.
The fact of the matter is, Incapacitated should never have been put on a perk that every killer can use to begin with. It is only appropriate on Twins and on Pinhead, even the Huntress addon is a bad use of it; either the number's high enough for it to be broken or it's low enough to be useless, there's no middle ground. I think it's most useful to remember Incapacitated is not an effect that Twins use, it is The Twins Status Effect, and they also put it on Pinhead because it fit that use case.
I'd just make Twins' effect do something like Doctor. No big deal.
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@FootMan2893 said:
Except those actions don't lead to survivors being damaged. Trapper is just placing a trap and plague is applying a debuff. I also remember your post complaining about them fixing it so Knight loses tokens when summoning and claiming it was somehow a fun and unique playstyle.
PWYF is a niche perk and it's meant to be restrictive. Movement speed is a very finnicky thing and changing it could drastically break what little semblance of balance the game holds together.
"Except those actions don't lead to Survivors being damaged.", did you NOT read what I just typed?
- Trapper trapping a Survivor will almost always lead to an injury unless he uses one add-on. It's guaranteed on trap.
- Plague applying Broken still INJURES the Survivor in the same way any other Killer hits someone.
The post I made complaining about them making it so that Knight loses tokens is because it's horribly inconsistent. Plague can directly injure a Survivor while Trapper can indirectly injure a Survivor and NEITHER of them had PWYF changed.
There's a problem when you can't follow your own rules established, you know?
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@Wowie said:
I don't agree. Some charms make more sense for a survivor to have, some make more sense for a killer. Why would Mikaela have a bucket of fingers?
Silly idea.
SOME charms that currently aren't should be universal though.
A charm is just cosmetic, it shouldn't matter if the charm is on a Survivor or Killer or if it "makes sense". What DOES make sense is giving people more options to actually customize themselves to their own liking.
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@Emeal said:
idk man, there are way more useless perks in the game than Iron Maiden.
Iron Maiden is good if you wish to rule out use of lockers for Survivors, its a deterent.
The problem isn't just that Iron Maiden is useless (for the most part), it's the fact that the Perk:
- Severely punishes players for a minor action that doesn't directly involve the Killer in any way
- Affects a statistic for the Killer that should simply be basekit
- Creates necessity for certain Killers that it doesn't need to if the effect was basekit
This is just inherently poor design since a Perk like this should not have any of this. Killers should not have a quality of life feature be relegated to a Perk and should never be rewarded for something they never directly impacted, nor be rewarded for a Survivor doing a simple action.
@NoHookDC said:
I love how some of the Survivor excuses to nerf a perk is 'unearned' or 'No skill'.
- Iron Maiden gives 'unearned' downs.
- NoED gives 'unearned' downs.
- Any Killer they dislike 'takes no skill'.
- Etc.
It's like some Survivors actually think they get to dictate what counts a skill for their opponent, and then want changes based on their subjective viewpoint.
See, the problem with what you're stating is that you're stating this to a Killer main and not a Survivor main.
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@FootMan2893 said:
So let me see if I can get this straight.
1 Nerf and/or gut the other exhaustion perks but make Lithe arguably the most broken perk to exist in DBD history.
2 Make a couple meaningless changes to adrenaline and then another perk that no one uses.
3 Buff up 2 completely useless killer perks in pointless ways that still doesn't make them usable and add a semi decent change to a niche one.
4 Nerf one of the better killer perks available.
5 Nerf a meme killer perk that serves no other purpose than to slightly annoy bullies.
Dude, you're right. I'm not ready for these changes that I need. And I wish I could return to 5 minutes ago when I still didn't know about these changes that I need.
1) I should clarify that the 15% increase is only for the fast vault you initiate off cooldown. This does not apply when you have cooldown.
2) They aren't meaningless. The removal of the Dream World counter is necessary to stop it from countering a Killer power, while the removal of the 50% increase in speed if you AREN'T finishing the last generator is a huge nerf.
3) None of the three Killer perks I buffed (whichever ones you're mentioning) would be pointless. They would serve their functions very well and create interesting builds.
4) STBFL is more than likely the best Killer perk in the game at the moment, if just because of it being the only unchanged meta perk out there.
5) No one likes Lightborn in its current state. Not Survivors, not Killers.
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Survivors phase through you while a Guard is active.
Also, the fun build was "Speed Knight", where you use the double Jailer add-on and the Lightweight Greaves add-on on top of PWYF. You'd basically become Wraith but he could hit people with the right setup to it and become a chase monster.
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@Shroompy said:
From her POV or the Survivor POV?
Hers.
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You are all unbelievable. I have no hope for this community if THIS is somehow divisive.
You know what, keep your vitriol toward each other in-game. If this somehow is so divisive despite being something that would be a complete, net benefit for the game's health, then you can keep saying horrible things toward each other at the endgame chat, or keep having horrible things hurled at you at endgame.
If you do not see the benefits this would have, then you deserve to keep the toxicity.
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@Ithiria said:
The regression from his guards is pretty bad.
5% is less than 5 seconds of survivor time, you gain much more by just having a guard chase them off the gen.
For defending a 3-gen, it's actually really good. It's 5% regression (4.5 seconds), and is essentially Jolt on command.
And you know what is also bad about this for Survivors? The fact that the Assassin and the Jailer take 6 whole seconds to complete their damage Generator action. Now it may not cause regression, but this effectively locks the Generator down for 6 seconds, time which adds up more and more.
If the Knight is running double Assassin and double Jailer, for instance, if he is doing a 3-Gen strategy, then he can effectively cause the equivalent of 22.5 seconds of total regression from instant hits, while also adding an additional 26 seconds of lockdown, in a full cycle of his Guards being ordered to damage generators.
So he can essentially take away 48.5 seconds of overall time on generators in a complete cycle if he so pleases to do it, and that's if Survivors are too scared to let a Guard proc on them, and that's not even counting the Perks and regression he may have applied himself beforehand.
Sure, you can scare Survivors off by using a Guard, but if they are already pushed off before you set it, you gain more value simply by ordering them to kick it than you would by setting them to Hunt, unless you have Eruption and someone is injured.
Regression from his guards may be "bad" if you're looking at it from a lens of just stats, but his overall slowdown potential is better than you can imagine with this change.
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@WesCravenFan said:
Did I seriously just see someone put down that "hit and run playstyle" is filed under "poorly designed"?
Isn't hit and run the opposite of tunnelling? Isn't that what people want? Make this make sense.
You would be surprised how many people dislike hit-and-run simply because it discourages getting into actual chases. And with Legion, it's extra annoying because the Survivor is forced to mend at many points in the match.
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@Seraphor said:
No.
Killers already get a "failed grab = hit" clause. So unlike blinding which either happens or it doesn't, killers can often score a hit instead of a grab.
But if Killers initiate the grabbing process, they should always be able to grab Survivors off of the objective that they were going for on principle. "Failed grab = hit" means the grab has to have been initiated at some point.
And regardless of that, you still need to consider the fact that a "failed grab = hit" scenario means you just got screwed over by getting a hit rather than getting a grab you deserve.
In my honest opinion, "if grab animation initiates = grab", no ifs or buts about it, hence the need for a buffering system.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
why use perks to emulate your power when you can use perks to do other things like slowdown / info /other chase perks ?
Because it removes the need to reduce your efficiency as Killer. You do not slow down as much and will still have the ability to down Survivors when applicable.
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@RainehDaze said:
... there was ever a penalty to grabbing people out of lockers?
Are you seriously implying that the perk is more pointless because infinite head on stuns are removed? I'm completely lost.
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3316485#Comment_3316485
"Locker grabs must be removed and lockers entirely changed to buff one perk because locker blinds were removed" is the most bizarre train of thought.
What my point is, is that Iron Maiden is pointless because they added a new mechanic to remove something the perk was more or less made to counter. Its only use now is to be a reload speed perk, which should not be in the game by any logic.
Which is why my train of thought is that both the perk and the reload speed need to both be changed to make them both better in the long term rather than just the usual band-aid fix.
My logic is as sound as their decision to buff Buckle Up because of the upcoming changes to the Survivor objective icons. You already know how much progression a Survivor has when they are dying, so they buffed Buckle Up to have a 10% haste effect to the Survivor that was picked up.
Same logic with Iron Maiden; it's currently pointless because of a baseline mechanic change, and thus needs to be altered and possibly with another baseline change to make it more appealing for all Killers.