Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329717#Comment_3329717
So people who are hard of hearing or deaf just don't get to play? We don't actually know what the visual indicator for TR is, but it could also be directional (and should be IMO, because the sound is directional)
its just spine chill. if you used current spine chill. the way it works is that the meter fills itself the closer the killer is. If its stealth killer. the perk is highlight fully but does not show proximity. If its 1-1, then its definitely going to weaken stealth killers so I am not entirely sure how those killers will be compensated. In general, you will see survivor hold-W before chases and staying away from the killer before the chase begins. I do not think people realize how impactful... that change is.
a lot of survivor do not really how TR works and visual indicator could be massively improve their performance. scary.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329737#Comment_3329737
What I want to know is how you're knowing exactly what a tile is out of its possible spawns from 'very far away' when there are other tiles in the way. Yeah, if you get clear line of site you might be able to determine it, but if the Killer's on you straight away on e.g. Crotus Penn Asylum with its double-layered tiles, or you're having to chain together tiles without having chance to look, I don't think you're always able to get an angle and tell what tile it is, where the pallet is on the tile (if it's there), and the window. WoO lets you see more to work that out without needing the angle or sight.
Then there's Lery's as its own weird outlier in all this
I guess its just experience. crotus asylum is one of few maps to have what is called double connected tile-set. they do not really make these anymore on new maps. There is special rule for these special tile-set is that the tile-set can only spawn unique tiles between both tile-sets. you can have T-L wall, Four wall, Single pallet gym(Which I call long-wall single pallet) or classic jungle gym. It can be any combination but it always be unique. I do not like playing on that map because the basic strategy for killer is to go North where shack is and to hook survivors in the north part of the map. The reason being is that typical layout that you will get on north side are like T-L wall into Four wall which are very weak loops so killer will often pray on inexperienced survivors that go on north side of the map to do generators. If they're successful in getting an early free hook, then they will camp the hook which allows them to massively exploit the obvious T-L wall into Four wall or single pallet which is very strong deadzone for killer. Sometimes jungle gym will spawn, but inexperienced survivors will often waste the pallet and create dead-zone for the killer to exploit. Boring map to play on because killer camp's hooks in deadzones or camps basement hooks in shack/main building.
I will not go into detail for Lery but as you can see, you do not need Window of opportunity. With experience, you will know how the map will be shaped without needing window of opportunity. Window is still good for a player like me because it tells me where deadzones are created. I do not really use windows for the map formation. I already know the maps like the back of my head. you sort of need to if your killer player to not take bad chases....
@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329693#Comment_3329693
I see no problem with the perk helping new players in a chase. The problem is when very good players use it to throw 6-8 pallets in one chase. Most of the killer roster can't do anything against such tactics.
IF we didn't nerf the perk and instead created some kind of new "pallet fatigue" then that might make sense. As the name suggests imagine if you could no longer fast drop pallets after you throw two while having been chased by the killer recently. But there is no reason to go to such trouble when we could just adjust one problematic perk.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329676#Comment_3329676
I think this perk needs to be toned down so that you either can't combine it with exhaustion or you lose the aura reading of pallets after you throw a few.
I see no problem with the perk helping new players in a chase. The problem is when very good players use it to throw 6-8 pallets in one chase. Most of the killer roster can't do anything against such tactics.
Pre-drop pallet has always been problem. its that dropping pallet for a lot of killer forces pallet breaking because the pallet has no mindgame. In other word its too safe such that it relies on survivor to make mistake which impractical. Alternatively it could have mind-game but it takes very long time to get a hit such that breaking pallet is faster.
It would be more interesting for the killer if more pallets had more potencial for the killer to get hits without breaking pallet and without entirely relying on the survivor to play poorly. It is scary perk to go against because it turns mediocre loopers into like professional loop though I personally do not need the perk to chain loops together.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329693#Comment_3329693
WoO isn't just a solo-SWF bridging perk, it's a "prevent misplay" perk.
If you have WoO, you can't possibly make a mistake on where the window or pallet has spawned on a tile. You can't path incorrectly to start the loop, because you don't know where it is. You can't be caught unaware at the start of the game before you know the map gen. You can tell with reasonable certainty what sort of tile might have spawned on the other side of a wall, or where on maps that have plenty of possible pallet spawns they've shown up, without having to look at each tile or gamble on it in a chase.
As long as it's possible to get from one tile to the next faster than a Killer can close the gap for a hit, WoO virtually eliminates all the elements where human judgement, memory, or sheer lack of a chance to look will get you caught out.
you can do that without needing the perk. I can look at tile from very far away and known instantly by its shape what tile that is and how I am supposed to loop it. Your talking about training wheel part of the perk. what you cannot do without the perk is identify dead-zones that your teammate create. Window of opportunity with complete certainty allows you to know whether a pallet has been used or not. You can entirely avoid ever going into dead zones if you use this perk. This part is NOT training wheel part of the perk. This is something that technically obtainable by 4 man swf comm's but as you know, most survivor player soloq so this is great perk to have.
If your little bit new to the game, you can look at otz's video "all Maps Tier List & Guide | Dead by Daylight (6.5.0)". It is in-depth guide about the maps. You can study the maps with otz's video. Of course, Studying is maps is amazing, but you only learn looping by playing the game.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329601#Comment_3329601
There is nothing wrong with WoO as an idea if you look at it in a vacuum. But consider what the perk allows you to do: it allows you to go from pallet to pallet to pallet to pallet and continue to throw them without any chance for the killer to hit you.
This is a completely different idea from : I want to be able to see pallets so I don't run into a dead zone.
I'm asking for one simple change: Remove the ability for people to continue to keep throwing pallets.
A very simple way to do this would be to give this perk 2 charges. Throwing a perk uses up a charge. If you are not being chased for 35 seconds you get one charge back. When you have 0 charges you lose aura vision of pallets and windows.
-"Iron Will was overnerfed"
For six years my build was : Sprint Burst, Self Care, Spine Chill, Iron Will. Note: this was of course after the sabotage nerf where breaking a hook lasted forever. I lament over the changes of Iron Will but it was 100% abused by the very best survivors who combined it with Resilience, Spine Chill and Dead Hard.
I used IW back in 2016 where we had maps like Shelter Woods which was the only map with no infinite loops) in a time where we had genuine infinite loops. The kill rate on that map was 76% according to one of the dev streams of that era. It was literally hide or die. So I got really good at using Iron Will to disappear mid chase. That playstyle died when aura vision was added along with the doctor. Any hope of it being useful was removed again when the ambient fog around the map was removed.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/89XTO53U57HB/dbd-old-fog.jpg
This screenshot courtesy of a friend of mine shows what the old fog looked like. You probably don't see the Claudette in the picture do you? Not only do I love the old stealth play I massively preferred it to " chase me around a circle".
To make a long story short I understand sound matters. What you don't understand is that the ability to chain from pallet to pallet to pallet breaks the game. DBD is not designed for you to have 60 seconds in a chase between hits.
There is not much difference in the old SC, RES, IW, DH combo compared to the new WoO/DH combo. Both setups wasted a TON of time in chase by extending the chases past their natural duration.
sure, but that does not stop strong survivors from looping, i.e going from pallet to pallet. You said it yourself that your not a new player and that you know where 90% of the pallets spawn. with enough experience as survivor, you can emulate what windows of opportunity does without using the perk in the chase. Window of opportunity is scary because it allows weaker players to vastly elevate their looping skill without the need to learn looping. The perk got buffed two times. At first, the perk used to have a 60/50/40 second cooldown when a player dropped a pallet/vaulted a window, then it got buffed to 40/30/20 seconds and then its cooldown was removed and its radius was increased from 20 to 32 meters.
for new players, it vastly elevates their looping. For experienced players, it allows them to not run into deadzones and is another one of those soloq swf bridge perks because SWF can do clock call outs for which part of the map is being looped while soloq lacks that as they cannot see aura of where their teammate loop. I wonder how they would fix that? Maybe put a red aura pallet icon when the pallet is dropped? Only issue I see with that is that you might not see it clearly if your 60+ meters away.
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@TWiXT said:
Hell, I'm an English speaker and Still confused over IN GAME description of
Scourge Hook: Gift of Pain
- When a survivor is unhooked from a Scourge hook They Survivor suffer from the Hemorrhage and Mangled status effects until fully healed. The First time the survivor is healed, they suffer a 10/13/16 % Speed penalty to Healing and Repairing until they are injured again.
VS the Wikipedia version:
Each time a Survivor is unhooked from a Scourge Hook, the following effects apply:
- The Survivor suffers from the Hemorrhage and Mangled
- Status Effects until healed.
- Upon being healed, the Survivor suffers from a 10/13/16 % Action Speed penalty to Healing and Repairing until they are injured again.
So which is it BHVR? Do the survivors get the Debuff "EACH TIME" they are hooked on a scourge hook and then healed, or only on the "FIRST TIME?"
it works like this. you get hooked. Survivor is inflicted with mangled+Hemorrhage. If they heal. they gain -16% to healing action and repair actions. If you get hit, the perk disables itself. really bad imo. The perk effectively encourage you to waste your time chasing a surivvor. i.e have 60 second chase(chase, down, pick up, place on hook) then you need purposely let the survivor heal themselves and then never hit them entire game and let them do generators for entire rest of the game.
@DudelPuma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329053#Comment_3329053
What then remains of healing possibilities? what does bhvr want to achieve? that you heal each other? bhvr can show me how to be healed up in the solo q without wasting a lot of time, as with almost all other perks, this is too strong in the SWF and the solo q needs it (it will be displayed to you, you can use it without communication heal up)
meanwhile in the swf "come on shack let's heal there" problem solved for swf, solo q: "a heal beg i'm dying of a heal, healll", selfcare got nerfed because it was too strong ? NO! Wasn't it because it was "meta", yes of course because it was one of the few ways to heal yourself up without the help of others, it makes bhvr :D I watch it nicely from afar as the solo q gets even worse (when the heal options will be even less) while I deleted dbd because your great matchmaking works so well that I will match with bot and when I play swf almost every killer hits the wall and I get so bored because it's not a challenge :DD
I agree with your post the most. soloq is just really inefficient at healing. if you apply injure pressure in soloq as killer, most teams easily break down if your experienced enough as killer. this is why I think that stealth killer are very predatory for soloq while being a complete joke for 4 man swf's. COH bridges that gap but ideally, I think a perk bridge gap is not ideal and its probably better to provide information for soloq to actively and convenient find teammates to heal.
@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3329174#Comment_3329174
Which ones are you considering gutted other than self care? Botany knowledge I wouldn’t even call a straight nerf. Inner healing is a decent one and was good enough to make it into the meta before CoH yet even with being good enough once CoH came it vanished since it looks bad in comparison.
Inner healing is really bad perk. finding totems for 1 heal is not good time investment for survivor. There are no official stats for what perk usage of inner healing is but if we look at Nightlight which gives just rough sample of usage rate of inner healing. it is around 1.5%-2%. After that, you have self-care. I do not see this perk a lot anymore but apparently its 8% usage. I used to see more before but now I do not see at all. The only other healing perk you see is we'll make it(5.5%). The reason why it is good perk is because most time-efficient healing for survivor is healing under hook. We'll make it is aggressive temp-healing perk that allows you to heal in dangerous situations and complete the heal without getting interrupted. If over the course of a chase, a killer spends 60 seconds interacting with a survivor 1 hook state, then we'll make it can undo killer's damage in 8 seconds. All you get is 1 hook-state and as far as survivor is concerned, the killer get no reward for 1 hook-state.
It also single handedly makes the entire hit and run play style non viable. As well beating down killers that rely on this play style, which mind you are generally some of the weaker killers in the game already.
This is just my opinion on this topic. I think hit & run is supposed to be a perk-oriented play-style to play the game. Not just a generic every killer can do it gameplay. From my personal experience, I think that in order for the play-style to have merit in strength, Individual healing needs to take around 26 seconds to heal towards SWF-level efficiency. That is roughly around -40% towards healing speed. Sloppy butcher is only 20% and its just not enough on its own to stand. Granted, according Nightlight, its 10th most popular perk at 10% usage. Other than that, there is no other consistent anti-heal perks that encourage spreading injures across entire team that stealth killers can utilize. I guess you could say instant down perks but there is just no relevant consistent instant down perk.
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@Clockwork_Enigma said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3327886#Comment_3327886
For defending a 3-gen, it's actually really good. It's 5% regression (4.5 seconds), and is essentially Jolt on command.
And you know what is also bad about this for Survivors? The fact that the Assassin and the Jailer take 6 whole seconds to complete their damage Generator action. Now it may not cause regression, but this effectively locks the Generator down for 6 seconds, time which adds up more and more.
If the Knight is running double Assassin and double Jailer, for instance, if he is doing a 3-Gen strategy, then he can effectively cause the equivalent of 22.5 seconds of total regression from instant hits, while also adding an additional 26 seconds of lockdown, in a full cycle of his Guards being ordered to damage generators.
So he can essentially take away 48.5 seconds of overall time on generators in a complete cycle if he so pleases to do it, and that's if Survivors are too scared to let a Guard proc on them, and that's not even counting the Perks and regression he may have applied himself beforehand.
Sure, you can scare Survivors off by using a Guard, but if they are already pushed off before you set it, you gain more value simply by ordering them to kick it than you would by setting them to Hunt, unless you have Eruption and someone is injured.
Regression from his guards may be "bad" if you're looking at it from a lens of just stats, but his overall slowdown potential is better than you can imagine with this change.
The problem is that if your purposely 3 gen with the killer. your going run kick perks for 3 generator gameplay because default kicking for over-time regression is pathetic. The kick perks are better then knight power kicks. The only way you will ever use the knight's guard for kicking is if you DO NOT run regression kick perks.
I think knight only has 1 issue currently in kit which is that none of the guards are able to get hits even if you successfully start a guard chase with the survivor from 20 meters away. Like regardless of how you place the guard, the survivor physically has no opportunity to get hit by the guard if they do not wish to get hit by the guard. They're mathematically too slow. All of them. You can physically run forward and the guard can never hit the survivor without you(the main killer) being there to hit the survivor. This makes him weak towards hold-w strategies because they waste his time and he does not really have a counter to it. there is basically no punishment for running away from him when he is using his power. He does not lose as much distance with haste but its just net-loss for him. I think if they just gave a 5% haste to his guards when he draw a 10 meter path, the change would remedy that issue for him.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3328224#Comment_3328224
Interesting.
- Bweb improvements...hopefully just some sort of autobuy.
- Bots - meh. But hopefully prototyping for the day they can replace DC/AFK players.
- Map repeat prevention - fantastic.
- Visual Terror Radius...I have absolutely no idea what this is going to look like, but can't you just use Spinechill?
- The next update - it's Badham. Frigging finally.
- RIP Eruption. Enjoy it while I can, I guess - because I'd bet dollars to donuts it's going to get Thana'd.
- FOMO cosmetics - meh.
I bet it will be something like pop where its generator progression goes from max progression to current progression and they will add an animation that makes generator explode after 2-3 second delay so survivor can entirely avoid incapacitated effect. Eruption will just become pop goes weasel 2.0.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vv3I9hHLblE@Blueberry said:
It’s actually 2.5%, but yeah, basically nothing. Even with 2.5% kicking a gen without other perks is almost always the wrong play. When you account for the time you waste walking over and doing a kicking animation 2.5% regression still nets you a loss of time. I’d like to see 5%.
I am going to take a guess that base regression is slow because of 3 generators.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326754#Comment_3326754
Most Killers run "decent regression". And 3-Gens are pretty easy nowadays, RPD spawned with constant 3-Gens after the Rework, Haddonfield does that as well. After the Rework, Eyrie also seems to have bigger 3-Gen-Potential.
And well, what does it matter to the Killer if they give up "every other Gen"? The Survivors dont win when they do 4 Gens. There is 0 difference for the outcome of the Match if the Survivors do 4 Gens or 0 Gens.
yeah, i dislike how they're balancing maps by 3 gens.
Haddonfield: 3 gens
RPD: 3 gens
Eyrie crow: 3 gens
and then there whole idea shrinking maps sizes to make 3 gen even more dominate.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326104#Comment_3326104
So you don't see telling all the survivor nearly exactly what each other are doing at all times as "just making things stronger"? That is exactly what it's doing.
We can "also" say it is making the experience more enjoyable, but let's be honest, why is it more enjoyable? Because you can be stronger and more efficient from that information.
I feel like trying to call it just a QoL would be extremely disingenuous.
A QoL change would be something like having your loadouts pre-saved in order to waste less time. That isn't stronger, it's just convenience. That is what QoL is. QoL is feel good/convenience changes, not power.
I do not understand how you expect killers to be more challenging to play against if the average player struggles to escape the current killers in the game. There is lack of incentive for them to make killers stronger to play at SWF competitive level if average survivor does poorly. Its sort of like, why bother? you have to make concessions in making average survivor stronger for you to get stronger killers close to swf level. Their icon is step in doing that, but I do not think that their current level of information matches that of a swf in term of efficiency. As a result, swf matches for killer will still be a lot harder then soloq matches.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325152#Comment_3325152
And how long does it take to go from the back side of main to the generator in Shack? It's too far for any killer without mobility to defend. This map is over 11,000m². There is no way for most killers to play a "normal" game on this map.
You picked a map that is either : the killer holds a 3 gen and wins or survivors break the 3 gen and it's an easy escape. This map is broken for the majority of the killer roster because of how poorly that scenario plays out.
My friend calls the reverse of a three gen a "Y gen" (look at the shape and it's obvious). As a killer if the survivors "Y gen" you then you lose unless you've killed two of them.
-"Look at Garden of joy, its near perfect rectangle."
And? The generators are laid out in a "U" pattern. Overall combined with the broken main building and this map is nearly impossible unless the survivors are bad.
-"In general, the more rectangular the map, the bigger map will feel for the killer."
I don't think you realize you are contradicting yourself. Are you honestly trying to say it's easier to check most of the generators on Azarov's than it is on Coal Tower? That's not possible.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/G45S8PHLBW46/image.png
Gas Heaven is an unfair map because it requires the killer to go around the outside edges to check generators. Even though it is not quite as big as Azarov's it's actually much harder to win on this map unless you are a mobility killer. The patrol time gets much larger because you must make big right angle moves around the corners on a map that is not small.
One of the big points I am trying to make here is that maps should not be made in such a way that they are only fair for killers with high mobility.
Wreckers Yard is one of the most fair maps in the game. It's small and most of the generators are pretty close together around shack. The time to go around and check every generator is massively shorter than on Gas Heaven. One of the things that makes the map feel fair is because you never feel : I must hold exactly these three gens or I lose (because travel time would be way too long otherwise).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LMZL0UYBVZ3J/image.png
The crow map was broken because it had a 3 gen on one end and nothing else on the map was even remotely close to being defensible due to Shift+W tactics. Everyone knew this so they rushed one of the gens on main and then the killer lost.
I also am of the opinion that if a map forces a killer into three gen tactics to win then that map is also not fun/fair to the killer. Subsequently I do not think survivors enjoy maps when they are played "3 gen style".
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/A9XNECLK7EY3/image.png
This is an example of another map that feels "artificially" big. You either three gen on this map or the survivors walk all over you - unless you are playing a mobility killer.
That's messed up.
I don't think you realize you are contradicting yourself. Are you honestly trying to say it's easier to check most of the generators on Azarov's than it is on Coal Tower? That's not possible.
no I am saying that maps that have wide generator spread are harder to win on as killer. Not necessarily that size equates to difficulty.
You either three gen on this map or the survivors walk all over you
that is sort of what my long post was about. I wish killer was less about 3 gen and more about actively aggressively chasing.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3325081#Comment_3325081
-"I think your post is complaining less about big maps and more about gen spread."
Generator spread is a direct function of map size. If you can walk 15 seconds to the far generator vs 35 seconds - that's a huge difference.
But as I explained - small maps tend to have gens close together so that while chasing player one you often run into player two working on a generator. As map sizes go up this happens less often. The only way a 4v1 game is fair is if the killer gets multiple 2 for 1 chases OR the killer tunnels someone out.
Which one of those two is more fun?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324954#Comment_3324954
While technically possible it doesn't always spawn that way. Furthermore
The smart survivors will always try to break the three gen first. Bad players decide to do the "safe and easy" gens first and then wonder why they lose.
-"Also most killers have a way to combat main's infinite."
Main building on DD isn't an infinite. It is an automatic time waster. Unlike Badham it is a much weaker time waster because it is defeated by breakable walls not god pallets.
I think you have some ideas about mid level play that just dont apply when you play against top tier players.
Generator spread is a direct function of map size.
False. A map can be super big such as Azarov resting place(It takes like 30 second to go from one side to another) but have tight gen spread. i.e its very easy to 3 gen.
In general, the more rectangular the map, the bigger map will feel for the killer. The worse the gen spread is likely to be. Just look at old Eyrie crow shape. Its perfect rectangle. that is why the map looks big to you. In new shape, its square, so its more circular hence its smaller, as a result, the gen spread should be tighter. that is common theme with all ultra-survivor favoured maps. they're all all near perfectly shaped rectangles.
Look at Garden of joy, its near perfect rectangle. Disturbed ward. It is decently big square with rectangles sticking out which give it that rectangle big-size feel. Rotten fields, It has shape of rectangle. Look at Fractured cowshed, almost perfect rectangle. Are you starting to see pattern? These are some of the harder maps for killer.
As I said, I think your complaining about gen spread/shape over its size. You want maps to be more mini-squares so that it is easy to 3 gen kinda like Azarov's Resting Place. I think its sort of scapegoat to balancing loops/chase for killer. that is my opinion.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3324500#Comment_3324500
-"What does main's gen matter when killer can ignore it and ez win the game regardless?"
Efficient survivors will always break the corner three gen first. And then you have nothing. Killing one survivor early is roughly equal to losing the only viable three gen on that map - unless you are Blight or Nurse in which case almost any three generators are always close enough for you to patrol.
efficient killers guard 3 gens. The only time killers were voluntary lose a 3 gen is when they can get a kill from losing a 3 gen. I think map size only an issue if the survivor is hold-w before chases because of the large map size. A map that makes me think its too big is Mother dwelling. that map is absolutely massive and if you ever had a chance to face SWF's that pick this map with 4 sprint bursts as an non-mobile killer, you will understand how painful it is to play this map in term of the shift-w that is possible on this map. Like with sprint burst, the killer can potentially spend like 30 seconds just trying to get into the chase on this map. Even if you successful beat the survivor at the loops, it takes so long to patrol generators and walk from one end of the map to another that is likely worst offender when it comes too big maps.
I think your post is complaining less about big maps and more about gen spread. Your essentially asking for every map to have unbeatable 3 gens so that you can turtle near endlessly. Personally, I think close gen spread are unhealthy for dbd because they take away the defining strength of survivors which is spreading out and pressuring places of the map. The game being played in a single area of the map makes the game feel less dynamic. At least in my opinion, its incredible boring. I heavily dislike this gameplay. 3 generator greatly dodge dbd map's design within loops. You see, you can have pretty unfair pallet loops everywhere and strong windows, but if the killer is 3 gen, they do not need to deal with the loop design in the map if they never walk to that side of the map. That is large reason why Gideon has high kill-rate. It is strong 3 gen map.. so despite the map having a lot of pallets, the gen spread is favorable that 3 gen is really effective. I think that is running theme with dev's kill-rate on the maps. The maps that have poor gen spread seem to have highest kill-rate while the maps with largest gen spread have highest escape rate. I would imagine that since Eyrie crows has poor gen spread, it likely has very high escape-rate as a result of high gen spread. Of course the loop strength has contributing factor to a map's escape rate but its not single biggest factor. I think gen spread is single biggest factor otherwise if loop strength was biggest factor, then a map like Gideon's would be among highest escape rate maps. Otz in his video describes this as indoor map syndrome but I think i think it is fair to say that indoor maps have worse gen spread which leads to higher average kill-rate on said maps. At least this is more interpretation.
In regards to map balance, I think map size is an ok spot(barring Mother dwelling). I think loop balance is more problematic on most maps then map size. Father chapel for example is one of few maps to have a remaining god window. In one of iterations(I think Otz labelled this as Red chapel) that window by the basement is awful. its just free time waste. Father chapel is also one few maps to be able to spawn a jungle gym window facing a shack window. that for m1 killers is like 2+ minute chase to take out 2 pallets. In general running problem with most killers is that fact that most killers fall into the pallet break simulator. They cannot really mindgame pallets that are dropped. As a result, they end up being forced to break pallets over trying to get hits at pallets because getting hits at pallets takes longer then breaking pallets. It creates lose/lose situation for the killer. If they break pallets, the killer breaks pallets so slowly that the survivor can nearly always get to next loop and chain into another pallet which then leads to more pallet breaking. If they do not break pallets, the jungle classical gym pallet and shack facing each other on father chapel are bloodlust 3 infinities so you cannot down the survivor. As a result, there is no good play for killer. Breaking the entire map full of safe pallets is not feasible and bloodlusting pallet is too time-consuming/ineffective. I think it would be better to shorten pallet side loops or perhaps make killer's able to lunge longer so there is less incentive to break pallets and more incentive to win pallets over breaking them. Make killers not rely on bloodlust/pallet breaking to win chases. This is why killer resort to 3 gen in the game. You do not need break entire map if you 3 gen the map and play specifically one side. No need to worry about loop balance when your not going to participate in 75% of the maps loops. Your opponent cannot loop if there is nothing to loop in the area(artificial dead-zone).
TL:DR map size is ok, map pallet safety loop balance is the issue in my opinion. please avoid balancing the game off 3 gens gameplay. It makes game less fun.
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@SkeletalElite said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3321131#Comment_3321131
The problem with doing the gen in 33 seconds is even if you can get all 3 survivors together on a gen, my average solo queue team mate cant go 15 seconds without getting hit so they get downed 3 seconds before we finish the gen regardless
if its so easy why dont you queue up for some survivor matches right now and show us how its done
I would say eruption == to dead hard(both versions of dh). both perks slow the other sides objective down and both perks are activated by the other side succeeding their indirect objective. In my personal opinion, DH is stronger then eruption because the survivor does not need to go out of their way to activate DH while the killer does have to go out of their way to kick gens.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3323180#Comment_3323180
Most of these you found as too much of a buff, I'd be curious how you would buff them then instead to make them competitive?
They are competing against gen regression perks. For most of these if you toned down the buff they still aren't competitive with the meta and we're still just going to see nothing but regression perks.
We're so afraid to give good buffs to other perks that we are never going to leave the slow down meta.
BlueHorkew is describing what I was referencing in regards unfun. you can see his listing of unfun killers and unfun perks. He is naming potential smart perk combinations or killer power synergies that killer could be worth using over gen defence. His post proves my point perfectly.
We're so afraid to give good buffs to other perks that we are never going to leave the slow down meta.
Ideally survivor would prefer killer run gen defence perks and lose. If generator defence perk is making them lose. that should be removed and weakened. Its same for tunneling and camping. The ideal is that killer camps and tunnels but loses while doing so. You know, play for survivor's fun.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3322281#Comment_3322281
I basically agree with everything you've said.
Anything that puts the killers skill as the determining factor is deemed unfun, so everything is left in a weakened state to where it doesn't have much impact. This is turn leaves everyone just defaulting to gen slow down as the most valuable.
Unfortunately this vocal majority of survivors that think this is what creates the stale meta that they complain about in the first place. They create their own problems in other words. We could reference this to camping/tunneling as well btw with wanting survivors in such a powerful position they force the exact game play from killers that they complain about. It's a self fulfilling prophecy basically.
There's way more variety in survivor perks since while there are many bad ones, there's actually quite a variety of decent ones. Also, the main component being that they don't generally need perks to win. Killers are significantly more reliant on perks than survivors are which gives survivors a lot more wiggle room for "fun" perks.
Anything that puts the killers skill as the determining factor is deemed unfun, so everything is left in a weakened state to where it doesn't have much impact. This is turn leaves everyone just defaulting to gen slow down as the most valuable.
Gen defence is only thing that has not been nerfed. Not completely anyway. Not yet. Your statement is good summary.
Killers are significantly more reliant on perks than survivors are which gives survivors a lot more wiggle room for "fun" perks.
Correct. That is because lots of what is strong for survivor is in the base-kit gameplay. Looping is not a perk. Gen speed is not a perk. Grouping healing is not a perk. Healing and gen coordination is teamwork. Looping is loop oriented and map related. You don't need perks to accomplish these actions. The survivor perks merely improve 1 area of the survivor's gameplay based off survivor's' preference. Often what perks you value as survivor are perks that mitigate your weaknesses as a player.
for killer, the perks and killer power are directly correlated to the killer's power-level. Once you have strong perks and strong killer power, then there's skill component is the killer player in being able to use these perks to the greatest advantage. Since most perks have little impact, there's not much for the killer to do in term of expressing skill with said perks and that goes the same for most killer powers. Most of killer power are unfun for survivor so same logic is applied to killer powers as it is with perks.
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the counter-play is not being in dead-zones. clown also has cooldown when he throws a bottle. you can use this cooldown to medium vault windows. you camp strong windows like shack. He can technically m1 you to injure you but that prevents his instant down from working thus defeating purpose of instant down(similar to billy chainsaw). you can force clown to m1 you in many cases at loops and distant bottle throws are not that difficult to dodge if your not hindered.
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@Crowman said:
You can already chose when to use Sprint Burst by picking when you run.
yeah but drawback is walking around/not having the perk active for when the killer chases you. bringing back old DH in form the form of SB.
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@Lynnthedoe said:
I had a scan of discussions and couldn't see anything.
When I use this add on I only have the sound of killer instinct, no visual like you usually see with killer instinct.
I used to get the visual but not now .
When playing wakizashi and dried cherry blossom I have no scratch marks and no killer instinct (as example), so have to go in sound alone and the odd grass movement.
Is this a bug? Anyone else having it?
I play on console - PlayStation.
it is bugged. needs bug fixing. Same as Twins with her game-breaking bug that still exist in ptb as well(not fixed).
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318422#Comment_3318422
I actually disagree on your premise. Most of these perks are perks that are interesting and fall short of their purpose. These changes didn’t have to be all reworks, lots of perks only needed number changes. Which perks are obnoxious or not enough? Without specifics we can’t fix them. Finally Spies is very bad. My change would not make it spammy on the killer as we’ve replaced the noise notification with aura reading. The perk would still be awful with the changes you recommended. I don’t think keeping the perk in its “intended” purpose is even a good idea as it isn’t a very good one.
This is the post that I most wanted to reply too during the year. but I was unable to reply to it due to some external factors.
Your idea for killer perk is solid but there one problem. Survivors find killers and their perks unfun. Every single perk that they make in the game, survivors likely critic how the perk feels to go against and if a perk is effective, its label as unfun perk. As a result, most perks that get released for killer are "Unfun".
Nurses Calling - This is revert to old nurse calling. I assume this perk was labeled as unfun because it prevent you from healing and allows killer to interrupt heals. I could also see survivors saying that it is oppressive on stealth killers - Unfun perk
Bloodhound - This perk punishes you for being injured. One of strongest thing that survivor can do in this game is rush generator while injured while using safe pallet as meat-shield safe-guards towards generator progression. Your buff to this perk punishes survivor for healing and grants killer pseudo wall-hacks for survivor being injured. - Unfun
Thanatophobia: This is slowdown perk that punishes survivors when the survivor do not split up and punishes survivors when their team is not effective at looping the killer. -Unfun perk, Just look at how much people hate eruption and eruption does same thing. it punishes survivor for failing chase so they hit by regression+incapacitated for their team sucking at the chase. This is same thing but in the form of action speed debuffs. unfun unfun unfun.
Brutal strength: This is chase perk that zones the survivor in "corner" pallets. Normally when killer kick pallets, they have long animation to do so. This is to ensure that survivor can make it to another pallet after the killer innates a kick action. This perk allows you to kick pallets faster which allow killer to "anti-loop" the survivor by hitting them before they get to next pallet. -Unfun
Fire Up: This is a perk that is suppose to be based around idea of destroying pallets in late game. The problem is that the way survivors play the game is that they throw all safe pallets at the START of the game. This large reason to why a lot of killer suffer 3 generator loss in first chase. Too strong pallets that force killer to kick them and waste time(No anti-loop). With your rework, this will make a strong perk option to destroy early pallets in chase and create deadzones early on the trial. Creating deadzones early as survivor and having strong chase early on? UNFUN!
Fearmonger & Blood Echo: These two perk are designed to disable exhaustion perks. Dead hard in particular is one of strongest if not best perk in the entire game. Disabling dead hard means that survivor will be unable to extend chases. UNFUN FOR SURVIVOR!
Trail of Torment: This perk allows you to remove killer terror radius after kicking a gen. Another very powerful thing that survivor can do in the game to waste killer time is pre-run forward and hold-W by listening to heartbeat. This perk allows you to come closer to the survivor and often get opening hits in your generator patrols. UNFUN!
Deathbound: this is same thing as trail of torment. a common time to heal as survivor is when your working on generator and a survivor shows up wanting to get some healing. Its stealth perk to get opening hits after people heal when working on a generator. Getting hit just after getting healed? Unfun!
Furtive Chase: This is an obsession perk that is suppose reward the killer for spreading hooks by targeting the obsession. The killer getting rewarded for hooking by becoming a stealth killer over the course of a match, Hit & Run gameplay? unfun!
Hysteria: Its stealth perk that is suppose to used for detaching chases and hit & run gameplay on non-stealth killer powers. Once again, Mirroring Trail of torment with pre-hold W problem, Its unfun for survivor.
Dragon's Grip: A lot of killer lack mobility in their kit to catch up the survivor after hitting them due to large sprint burst that survivor gets after hitting a survivor. Some killer just really wish they had better lethality in their kit. Med-kit & COH destroy these type of killers if the survivor is good at looping and uses their health-states properly to extend chases. You know what solve this issue? exposed perks! You know what's unfun for surivvor? Not being able to crutch on health-states. Exposed? Definitely unfun!
Hubris: Same thing as dragon grip. Its suppose to be for killer that can "play" pallets, too bad a lot of strong pallets in the game really safe and waste a ton of time from the killer if used by a good looper. Exposed perk, Obviously unfun.
Hangmans Trick: I mean this perk used to be 12 meter in PTB and people call this perk OP. I think its same OG BBQ when people complained that BBQ removed stealth from the game. I am honestly surprised nowhere to hide is as strong as it is considering Hangman trick getting nuked to the ground.
I am not going continue talking about all your perks changes but I think large reason why a lot of perk suck is because survivor label them as unfun so all perks are under-tuned to accommodate the survivor's fun factor. With so many unfun killer perks(According to survivor mains), the result is stale killer meta because only thing that killer can run that actually does anything is meta gen-regression and gen-slow perks.
Using different perk loadout for killer makes killer a lot more enjoyable to play however the killer fun in dbd is not prioritized. I think its probably last thing that matters. The dev only change killer stuff is in really really bad spot. Survivor is generally more priortized to due to the 4vs1 nature of the game. Its just how it is. This isn't to say that there aren't bad survivor perks but i think you can generally play survivor with a lot more variety then killer. At least in my experience, I see a lot more variety in survivor perk loadouts while I almost see zero variety on killer due to how atrocious bad most of killer perks are.
If you ever wonder why a lot of killer perk suck. its because they are unfun! Like Eruption(According to survivor mains).
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i wish it was less about stats and more about how the killer experience is. I just wish there was more of mastery between a really good knight player and middle-low knight player. More of skill-ceiling(less relevance on add-on, better base-kit), more add-on leading to elevated power-level rather then plaster fixing a poor base-kit.
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@Anomalist said:
Change DeathSlinger's name to anything else that doesn't have the inclusion of "Slinger" on it; only then will the ads + fire time nerf make even the slightest bit of sense. DeathSlinger is quite literally a Gun Slinger; someone who is known for being quick on the draw and still shooting well.
Slinger is currently a tall, 110% MS Killer with a 32 meter terror radius. The Redeemer only shoots up to 18 meters, has a thinner hitbox than most other projectiles, is only lethal if 1. the Survivor doesn't mend or 2. the Survivor is within M1 reach.
If we look at other Killers with a ranged option in their arsenal, the Slinger is outdone at nearly everything. Nemesis tiers up to get less ms reduction and can break pallets. Huntress has circular hitboxes on her hatchets. Trickster is Trickster, need I say more about him. Artist has map wide range and can have 3 projectiles at once. Plague can constantly keep Survivors injured and, let's be honest, she doesn't get enough flak for having a liquid trail with a BS hitbox. Pyramid Head can go through walls and can double as a quick hook. Artist, Nemesis, and Pyramid Head are all 115% that can ignore pallets and/or shoot through walls while have lethal powers.
Thematically and gameplay wise, Slinger never should've gotten an ads nerf. His best addons are reload and miss delay reduction and even then those only go up to green. A single digit percentage MS increase while ads'ing means nothing if you're power slows you down. Chain breaking stun is only good when you've got unsafe pallets. Mangled and hemorrhage mean nothing if you don't get hit, have a boon, or a medkit. This isn't Legion so mend timer increase is blegh. TR decreasing while aiming; as if you'll ever be sneaky enough on a wide open map. Reel speed is fine.
He got nerfed because people didn't want to adapt to faking windows and not running in a straight line and that's all his nerf will ever be.
I wish killer power balance was based off survivor mastery rather then the intermediate to new-player level. at new player/intermediate level there is lack of responsibility in term of getting better, Its often because there is mechanical skill-ceiling that is impossible for the player to reach or a lack of knowledge for how to approach the struggle. I think it is fine that the new player is ignorant on getting better against the killer, but I dislike the expectation that the balance should be based around his -inability- to learn to play better.
@ScØØby said:
@Anomalist I see your a man of culture as well, but I doubt we will ever get the ADS nerfed, I want him back, but majority of the survivor community doesn't want him back.
The Dev's should hold 2 separate polls for survivor and killer asking about this, Probably all killers say revert his changes, and most survivors will say he is ok change something else about him. :(
I think you could say these statements about most killer's position in the game.
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Iridescent company banner summons 3 guards is likely too demanding for the game. same reason why nemesis has 2 zombies.
Knight Contract seems very complicated to make for a single add-on. Its is too complex.
I think iri company banner is suppose to make the killer more dangerous around windows.
Iridescent company banner
-Survivors that are chased by the guard have their aura revealed to the knight.
This would make knight more dangerous at windows when he successfully begins a guard chase.
Knight contract is weird. Its impractical to use for an exposed add-on and expose has almost nothing to do with how his power works. The knight gameplay wise is all about restricting the survivor's movement. The add-on should reflect his strength.
Knight Contract
-Survivors suffer a -5% hindered penalty during the guard chase.
The knight already has access to an instant down if the guard successfully hits the survivor. you can double hit the survivor. This add-on improves guard chase which would allow more opportunity to get an instant down with The knight.
The current Knight contract is only good for face-camping hooks. This would be more exciting for survivor to play vs then current version of this add-on.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297084#Comment_3297084
No you’re misunderstanding. I’m saying that shattered hope is a garbage because it doesn’t counter CoH and that it’s bad design because we’re expected to run it since the devs “think” it counters CoH.
about 8/10 matches are with coh for me, roughly. I do use the perk. its pretty consistent perk in my opinion and somewhat underrated. the bigger problem i have is med-kits because there is almost no counter-play to them. in my estimate, i see 2-3, sometimes 4 med-kits in like 4/10 of my games as killer and these med-kit are not some weak med-kits, they're like green gel dressing med-kits with 2 really fast heals. Sometimes you see instant heal add-on as well. I have tried equipping franklins but every time I hit one survivor, everyone just drop their med-kit so it barely does anything. its kinda why I do not use it. I kinda wish overwhelming presence was not terror radius perk and equipping the perk was -100% item efficiency in trial.
With boons, you can get rid of them, over time. its just slow. med-kit on other hand... yeah....
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297119#Comment_3297119
IMO this is the main reason why there is a drop in BIlly-players. They decided to rework his animations shortly before the Power-Rework and it was just horrible. First of all, it was bugged and felt really, really awkward when playing. I stopped playing Billy immediatly when they did that and even when they fixed it, it did not really end up as smooth as before. You can negate this with Shadowborn, but not everyone wants to play this.
And I think the animations and FoV removed a lot of the good Billy-players. The bad Billy-players were removed when they added Overheat and nerfed the Add Ons, because lets face it, it was not hard to kill Survivors by Backreving with Insta-Saw or with the old Cooldown-Add Ons.
@Topic:
IMO they need to fix his animations and FoV. This is the main aspect. Hillbilly does not really feel clean to play with the current animations and so on. This also included the Hitbox of his Chainwas, it is huge compared to what it used to be. This makes hitting Survivors easier, but it also makes it easy to hit every little twig when trying to curve or just using the Chainsaw for Mobility.
His Add Ons need some love as well, some are way too specific. The thing is, Hillbilly should not have Chargetime Add Ons or Cooldown Add Ons. Those should not be a thing at all, they made Billy really easy to play back then and were way too good. (brown Chargetime and Cooldown were just so good and did not cost anything)
So all the current Chargetime Add Ons should be reworked into something different, because to get the benefit you either have a big drawback or a very specific activation.
LIke, I am only using Engravings and the brown Muffler in every game, because there are not many options aside from those, Lowpro Chains and maybe the two Iri Add Ons if you want to jumpscare Survivors.
But in general, I am not sure if we will ever see an increase in Billy-players. In general, there are more options when it comes to strong Killers. You dont need to use Billy when you want a strong Killer, there is Blight, Wesker, Artist, Spirit... So many Killers which got released. So in general, the number of Billy-players would have decreased anyway.
And last but not least, I feel that many players dont really play for fun anymore, but play to win (at least since MMR is a thing). And if you play to win, you just play Nurse. Why bother learning Billy, when you can just play Nurse, lose 5 games to get used to her power and 4K so many games afterwards?
His Add Ons need some love as well, some are way too specific. The thing is, Hillbilly should not have Chargetime Add Ons or Cooldown Add Ons. Those should not be a thing at all, they made Billy really easy to play back then and were way too good. (brown Chargetime and Cooldown were just so good and did not cost anything)
why? whats wrong with killer having decent add-ons? furthermore, what is wrong with billy being easy to play? His skill-ceiling is not that high but you still need to know what your doing to win with him with said add-on's. I think billy's pick-rate would be 2x if he just had 1 decent charge time add-on without conditions to trigger or drawback.
He is not hard to revive. He is one-step away from being a solid choice. I think its sort of bad that he is not good because he is one of the free killers that comes with the game and there should be a free strong killer that is easy to pick up and get good at.
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@Emoba said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296586#Comment_3296586
Complex? They did their best to make Knight's kit the LEAST complex possible, mate. Knight is their long-awaited attempt at making a summoner-type killer and they utterly failed at it due to how basic and restricted his design and the clear lack of uniqueness between each of the three guards (who basically are the same exact unit with different stats). The fact that he doesn't even have a CTRL ability (that could be used to switch guards at will or cancel a patrol from distance) says it all.
what were you expecting? The ability to summon a wizard that summons lightning bolts from the sky at generators? An archer that snipes survivors for you and hulk that charges at pallets smashing anything that gets in his way? I think they would been just fine with 1 unit personally.
I think all dbd killer are creative designs. Strength wise. its little bit less then ideal.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297065#Comment_3297065
I don't agree with that definition, I would say zoning is the ability to make a specific path much more risky to take, with an almost guaranteed hit if you still do... Like when demogorgon follows you with his shred or huntress has a fully charged hatched and aims at you, same goes for slinger. But now we get to the part where it becomes free... Huntress gets slowed down for holding the hatched, demogorgon gets slowed down for holding his shred and so on, old slinger did not get slowed for zoning since his wind up was basically non existent he could threaten a specific area without any negative effect towards his movements peed or so. And for me that's a prime example for free zoning. Yes you could still walk in his cross hair being at a higher risk to be shot but taking countermeasures will shorten your distance to him since he does not get slowed down ending up in a loose loose situation... If you don't dodge or make yourself hard to hit you will get shot and if you do he will eventually be in M1 range or that close that he almost cannot miss the shot, that was the problem with old slinger, why he was free and why they changed his wind up.
there is no guaranteed hit in any of these powers. your definition of zoning is using killer power at this point. Your just making bad guesses towards killer powers and blaming the killer. that is whole new level of delusional. Zoning for me is prohibiting movement/actions. A trapper trap under a pallet is prohibiting my ability to go through pallet because result of going through pallet is an instant down. Its denying area. Old Deathslinger is not denying area, he is making shift-W a more skilful interaction for survivor. You making bad reads vs his gun is not zoning. Its just you playing bad vs the killer.
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@HugTheHag said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297095#Comment_3297095
It also works with unhooks, but the part I'm confused about is the one with healing. =)
completing healing action just means change a survivor's health-state from dying to injure or injured to healthy.
Healing the equivalent of 1 health-state means that you need heal 16 charges on a survivor that is injured to healthy(since health-state only applies to injured survivors).
Aftercare is easy to activate but it is unreliable information perk because it disables itself when you get hooked. Better off just using kindred or bond over it. The perk is only worth if you use it with blood pact in my opinion to spread aura reading across teammates but its not worth the perk slot in my opinion. Its just more perks to -bridge solo information swf-gap- for what should just be base-kit to be honest.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296797#Comment_3296797
That's just not true.
CoH literally carries games. Shattered Hope is a garbage perk. Wasting a perk slot on something that should've been base kit.
isn't this contradictory statement? One perk carries games, the other one is garbage perk? How does that work? Your saying a perk that counters another perk which is auto-winning games is doing nothing.
This is like saying: Old hex:Ruin literally carries games, Detective hutch is a garbage perk. Wasting a perk slot on something that should've been base kit for totems.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296962#Comment_3296962
So you take Hens' gameplay as proof for him being not free, but Hens himself saying he was free does not count??? I don't understand that logic.
If you try to be outside of his imaginary cross hair then he is zoning you for free... That's also a point I made before... Old ds had free zoning...
If you try to be outside of his imaginary cross hair then he is zoning you for free... That's also a point I made before... Old ds had free zoning...
I do not consider that free zoning because you can technically be under his crosshair, It is just not advised. He is not prohibiting your movement. He is making your movement more risky. I would say he has free zoning at window vaulting because he can shoot you at the animation of vaulting therefore prohibiting your ability to vault window in a lot of situations but given his status as 110% m/s killer, there is no real reason to overly greed loops given that all maps have some form of high-wall loops to use LOS along with pallet breaks that give a lot of free distance.
I would say free-zoning is when a character prohibits an area or an action that would resolve in hit or down with limit to zero counter-play from the other side. there are loads of example of that in dbd. Artist's birds are often considered free-zoning tools because she can place birds at pallets where you cannot enter the bird trajectory but going under the mask of the bird can result in a free health-state loss. Dredge's Remnant when in the corner of a map/pallet can be free-zoning because you cannot enter Remnant to cancel it but going close to it allows Dredge to back-teleport into a lunge m1 hit. Hag's traps can be free-zoning because your trying to avoid traps are placed in choke points where the trap blocks your path leading to a trap trigger being an instant tp m1 hit. Trapper's traps at pallets or windows can prohibit your ability to use window or a pallet. Scottjund for example dislikes the knight's power because he thinks that the guards are free-zoning.
free-zoning is free hit without any counter-play/nuance. old slinger has counter-play and nuance in almost in any situation. The situations where you get hit for free were situations that you made a mistake prior to put in unfavourably position.
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296854#Comment_3296854
Its a more extreme situation, but the point was that its a perfect setup to go for other survivors and have a huge chance of killing them all before the game ends, but instead of doing that, people tunnel.
Why would you in a situation where you can engage with other players without risking a loss, still go for the same player? Because its even less risky and the reward is much larger.
The fact that this happens coughcoughsoloqcoughcough, means there needs to be a deterrence.
Because I can also include more common scenario's, where a Nurse faces 4 random survivors, or when a Plague pukes on gens while running Ruin, and certain survivors literally refusing to touch that generator untill the infection is gone, or when a Legion runs around and a claudette with a medkit decides to use selfcare every single time to save the medkit for "when it matters".
Tunneling is simply an issue, you either have a lot of perks and basekit mechanics against it, giving the reason "we cant spend that time on other survivors, so we are forced to tunnel early", or basically no effective perks and basekit mechanics, giving the reason "we have no reason to not tunnel early, and there is a huge benefit". Neither reasons should really exist.
There needs to be a deterrence early on to the point that the killer could lose the game(and so that everyone, including the first one found, to have a chance at fun. People literally DC early on if tunneled because they know they are not going to enjoy the rest of the game), there needs to be room to tunnel in the mid-game to give the killer room to turn a game around, and there needs to be nothing preventing a killer from tunneling in the end game to get all the kills they still can get(personally, basekit BT should also be removed there) so that survivors have to work their asses off to pull off a rescue).
The deterrence to not tunnel is suppose to be survivors being good at the chase. Technically decisive strike was also a deterrence for m1 killers to not tunnel because the 5 stun lasted so long that survivor could hold-W for like 25 seconds in perfectly straight line with zero risk which produced artificially long chases with no merit whatsoever. It was entirely lose/lose situation for weaker killers. It was mild annoyance for stronger killers like blight because they could catch-up very quickly and just see it as regular 2nd chase. With weakening on of decisive strike, its like that for all killers now.
Punishing killers for tunneling will not stop killer tunneling because its their objective to kill. Its like trying punish survivor for tunneling generators.
You have to give incentives the killer to go for fresh hooks and take chases with survivor with less hook-state loss. Currently, a killer that does not tunnel is literally play the game on ultra-hard mode and survivor is playing ultra-easy mode for killer purposely forcing themselves to play bad. Killer's tunnel because they want to win as well. If you want killer to not tunnel, then become good at 1vs1 chase such that tunneling is punishing for the killer. Other then that, stop complaining when the killer optimizes their objective.
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The projectile takes around 0.45 seconds to reach 18m (given that the projectile moves at 40m/s). If we take into account reaction time and ping as further up we get 200-300 ms (average reaction time) and 30-60 ms (ping). So if the survivor presses the button as soon as humanly possible he has 0.22 seconds to 0.09 seconds to get his hitbox out of slingers shot.
I wish you would stop pretending like you know anything about the killer. Deathslinger's gun was not instant scoping. it had 0.15 second aim down sight. according to your math was 0.6-0.3 between 18-8 meters. This assuming that deathslinger has 0 ping and press aim down sight -> fire shot with 0 input delay or network delay. This is first part.
The second aspect i want to talk about is the assumption that the survivor needs to go outside of hit boxes. The way quickscoping worked for slinger was that the killer and survivor have an invisible crosshair on their screen which I will call it the viewing angle(for survivor). To quickscope as slinger, you wanted to align your crosshair with survivor's model then immediately fire with a little bit of flick to predict where the survivor was going to be so that they side-step into the shot. The gameplay from the survivor side was all about avoiding deathslinger's viewing angle and moving as forward as possible while looking for his aim down sight+travel distance on the harpoon gun. The end point I am trying to conclude is that you should not be moving outside of his harpoon gun hitboxes, rather you should be already outside of his hitbox before the shot is fired. In practice, deathslinger was trying to predict where the survivor was going to be, not where the survivor currently is. From the survivor point of view, It was a mixture between reacting to shots and anticipating shots, Mindgames essentially.
Just to go on slight tangent, This viewing angle is how the stronger survivor players reveal Ghostface's Nightshroud quickly. Ghostface's model has a hitbox and in order to reveal him quickly, you simply point your invisible crosshair like giant lazer beam into his nightshroud hitbox and it reveals him after 1.5 second. this is just to talk about one of your post complaining about ghostface's reveal mechanic. Its incredibly easy. It is why it is difficult stalk experienced survivors with GF.
Going back to the conversation. Everything I have talked about is observable in gameplay. Hens interaction is a good example at 14:14-14:21 was very good outlook how gameplay between Slinger and good survivor looked like. You can instantly see how quickly hens would stay out of slinger's crosshair by default and how quickly hens would react to avoid the initial shot. Your perception of ADS canceling 20 times is complete exaggeration of the gameplay as seen in this video. Nowhere in the gameplay does this occur and your just projecting your feeling onto me for your dislike on the killer.
https://youtu.be/35vBSv7zPGw?t=854I remember watching his stream that day and he did around 8 slinger matches that day. most of them I remember them being on Coal tower. There was more gameplay in regards to old slinger but a single match is good enough to examine most of the gameplay elements.
Also I am more of Hens's opinion - people don't like current DS, because he now takes skill to play as opposed to be free.
Deathslinger was not free. My main dislike for these changes is that the survivor has too much control over his ranged ability on a killer that is suppose to heavily rely on his ability to get hits. Playing him vs strong survivors feels like having a useless ranged option that only works vs weaker players. You feel almost like 110% m/s m1 killer against good survivors. Its not matter of adapting to his changes. his changes just don't work. Its like taking a power reliant killer like Nurse and demolishing the killer kit with 2 changes then putting some bandages.
Nurse:
-Added blink location indicator for survivor to see blink location when charging Spencer's Last Breath
-Reduced max blink range from 20/10 to 14/8
-Reduced blink missed fatique duration from 3.5 to 2.5
-Increased Nurse base movement speed by 4%.
Anyhow, I am over the changes. I just do not think slinger changes were good changes. You can keep believing they are good changes though.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296411#Comment_3296411
Exactly. And I presume he would not be able to dodge even at 18m (I might be wrong, but I think that would be the case).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296398#Comment_3296398
Also I am more of Hens's opinion - people don't like current DS, because he now takes skill to play as opposed to be free.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296483#Comment_3296483
At 18 you have almost half a second to dodge, so I think at that point it could be possible, but as far as I'm aware at 18 m the slinger has problems reeling the survivor in anyways XD As seen in one of Hens' clips on RPD. Dodging in the sense of crouching, I don't know if you can sidestep it in that time to be honest... But it might be possible, we could test it out.
The fact that you two are second guessing yourself highly proves that you have played 0 hours on deathslinger. your blurbing complete non-sense like 20 ADS canceling. You have absolute zero experience on slinger to be posting comments like this. I played deathslinger for like 2 months straight at one point all the way to rank 1 on the old emblem system so I already know what the gameplay experience was like for deathslinger. The mental gymnastics that you two have regarding killers is unbelievably self-centered. I have zero clue to why your opinion regarding deathslinger matters when you clearly do not play the character at all. Its a bit disheartening that dev have to listen to this stuff and often makes changes based off this feedback.
Your entitled to your opinion to think that he was unfair/unfun/boring killer. My opinion has not changed though. I am just sad that we lost a fun killer to play. He was more interesting to vs before and far more enjoyable to play.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296374#Comment_3296374
Reacting appropriately to things happening is skillful. Even mind games provoke appropriate reactions to certain situations but turn out to be a different thing then the other sight assumed it would be. If old deathslinger runs after you and raises and lowers his gun 20 times without getting slowed down much you are telling me knowing when he will shoot is more than just guessing? Based on what exactly especially since he had not really any delay before he could shoot, so if he wanted he did not necessarily need to give you any information about an incoming shot... That is what made him free, and since Hens a really skilled player said exactly that you cannot say that we are just bad, because players that are not bad objectively, share that opinion. So your point of "you are just bad and don't know the game" just does not fit.
where exactly in that gameplay in hens gameplay do you see 20 times of raise+lower gun in the gameplay? This is such utter non-sense. There is this concept called conditioning in games. The more you do particular action, the less likely the opponent will fall for your bluff and vice versa. there is no need to respect every single ADS that the deathslinger player does. you could just disrespect his ADS and keep running forward. There is also principal of line of sight. Use objects to impair his ability to shoot you. As @roundpitt states, good survivor can flawlessly dodge his gun at distance. Your lazy to learn how to play against the character.
This is why you keep parroting the same old Deathslinger is unfun, braindead and boring slogan that almost every survivor main player whines about when they do not like playing against the killer. Personally, I think he was fun, interesting and took a lot of skill to play correctly. Overall I enjoyed playing survivor against his old-self. His current version for me is boring, uninspiring and somewhat braindead to play against.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296341#Comment_3296341
That example does not really fit... When Nurse blinks and before she hits there needs to be player input... But with slinger it is different since as soon as his gun is ads you get no more Intel when he is about to shoot. The reaction time is only between him shooting and the projectile hitting you... And you simply cannot react to that... Below 8-9m it is physically impossible and it is fairly obvious if you understand what reaction time and projectile speed indicate... That's the point where you could not even crouch dodge a shot that's aimed at your chest. And if you are not able to understand that the laws of physics do not care about you not understanding them but still apply then I cannot help you.
its not suppose to be about reaction. its suppose to be about predicting. mindgames. the reaction part is more of strategy to not need to use as much prediction on every shot.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296357#Comment_3296357
But again - also Hens said old DS was "free". He could really just run at you and raise/lower his gun all the time and never commit to get you. Loose loose situation with 0 counter play. No fun to play against and braindead to play as (which again - told in a way less words - is something Hens said in that video at that timestamp).
The ADS change was good one. The problem was, that he never got some compensation buff. And I would be OK with some - say give him 2 spears per one reload. Or something else entirelly. I don't really know what should be the buff. But it should be something that actually has some skillful counter play.
it should be something that actually has some skillful counter play.
what... your complaining about something that did take skill to outplay.
I don't really know what should be the buff.
The best buff is revert.
He could really just run at you and raise/lower his gun all the time and never commit to get you. Loose loose situation with 0 counter play. No fun to play against and braindead to play as
this sounds like my exact description of my previous post. survivor baby rage because it was too difficult to learn to play against the killer.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296341#Comment_3296341
Are you calling Hens lesser skilled player? Because again - in video that was provided here (timestamp 3:54:30) he talked how old DS was FREE. That this DS is much better, because this one actually requires skill. And that this deathslinger in his opinion is much more for to play as and to play against.
It's very weird you would call him lesser experienced, because he is the person people point out how SWF is broken. And if you want to call him biased survivor main - you will see him play killer waaaaay more often then survivor. I would in fact guess it's 80% killer 20% survivor (but these numbers are just my guess, they could be slightly different).
no, hens knows what he is doing vs slinger as seen in otz's showcase of deathslinger at high-level play. He is playing vs slinger correctly. I am just disappointed in the whole slinger has unreactable gun and that there is no nuance to his old gameplay when there clearly was. it just was not full proof because its not suppose to be full proof like the current one. I obviously do not believe SWF is broken, more so then killer is weaker role for most killers because of balance for casuals. my post is directed to Archol123 who keeps saying that deathslinger had no counter-play/nuance to his gameplay.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296168#Comment_3296168
I ll explain it more easily... Ping is the delay between pressing a button until the action that is bound to the button starts happening. So on the killer side pressing the button to shoot and shooting. However since the survivor can only react to the action happening:the shot itself but not the pressing of the button. The killers ping is not relevant when reacting to his shot. Now when the survivors wants to react to the shot his ping becomes relevant because even if he presses the button in time his ping can delay his action to dodge the shot and therefore it does not end up evening itself out.
That's why the survivors ping but not the killers ping is relevant for the reaction. But ofc it does work both ways, if the killer is reacting to the survivor his ping will be relevant but not the survivors.
more ping = easier to react to because each action has cumulative delay due to latency though some games allow you to queue actions, not sure about dbd because DBD is fps game. For example, before nurse's rework, you had to blink then press m1 manually to m1 out of a blink and if you press m1 too early, you would skip your m1, but post nurse's rework, you can queue a blink and m1 attack. I do not think you can do with deathslinger because he aim first then you need to fire. The result is more ping means you will get delay for pressing aim down sight then pressing the fire gun action leading to overall more time to see incoming shot. it would be easier to react to the gun if you had Mcdonald wifi connection.
I don't know about the grabs, because then you turn it into a loose loose situation for the survivor.
No you cannot?? Based on reaction time + ping that is more than the travel distance, it is physically impossible to dodge that thin??
In summary, The two reasons why slinger got changed is because lesser skilled players complained about lose/lose situations that did not exist(they were just making bad reads on when he is going to shoot). The other reason is lesser skilled players like you believe that is gun is unreactable and if the deathslinger had good aim, he always hits his shot while better player understood how to hold-w and make distance on a 110% m/s to outplay his gun. DBD always balances killer off bad players, so there is nothing to more to talk about regarding slinger. He will remain as unfun killer to play until his changes are reverted which is unlikely given this conversation. Just because your bad at versing him does not mean that everyone is bad vs ranged killers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I don't really get the concerns over killer aura reading on basekit Kindred. It doesn't make a difference if they can see your aura when you're camping at times when it makes sense to camp. There's never really a reason to do it unless you have a survivor hooked near gens you're defending or you can afford the trade off on gens for hook stages. And of course there's endgame. But everything else is just relying on pub-stomping tactics that good teams won't ever get beat by.
You should lose if you camp a hook away from your gens and survivors blast them. It wasn't a smart camp if that happens. If you're camping intelligently, the survivors still have to factor in gens and actually pull off the save even if they see your aura.
I feel like this is something that's only going to negatively affect less experienced killers. And that's a flimsy justification for not adding much needed QoL for solo queue players.
wallhack on loops should be a perk. the kindred perk itself should be about wall-hacks near loops(Some people pair with this with open handed). Its still little strange that wiretap does not work with open-handed since in my opinion, aura-reading perks for teammate should not exist because they divide soloq & comm swf but the game has a lot of aura-teammate perks that would need be re-purposed. all old team old aura-reading perks such as Bond, Empathy, aftercare, blood pact, Better toghether could be converted into wall-hack perks.
For example new bond could be: Teammates in a chase within 36 meter will show killer aura for x seconds to you. Empathy: Injured teammate in chase show the killer aura in chase to you for x seconds. Aftercare: Survivors affected by aftercare have the killer aura revealed for x seconds. Blood pact: Survivors affected by blood pact have the killer aura revealed for x seconds and gain a 7% haste effect. The x second can be long time like 40 seconds or can be short time like 5 seconds. it depends how viable they want these perks to be.
I do hope they improve soloq though because some of your teammate in soloq feel like they have zero-game sense. I already notice it now because of how kindred is bugged at the moment. teammates making bad save plays as expected.
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@JustAnotherNewbie said:
I don't play Trickster so I am not familiar with him and I am confused by his add-ons. I have games when the bar ramps up very fast (like getting 3 bars from what seemed to me to be one hit) and then when I read the add-ons I am not sure it connects. People who are familiar with him please enlighten me.
I think I've been having a visual bug.
read green add-on called Fizz Soda and a yellow add-on called Autograph.
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@Crowman said:
It was better before they changed. Seeing auras of survivors in your TR while a survivor was speared at least gave you some information to use.
yeah I sometimes used it with warden keys. decent aura reading. shames on nerfs.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295616#Comment_3295616
Problem everything that is 8-10m and less, would have to do the math for the exact distance. But given that the projectile moves at 40m/s and human reaction time being around 200-300ms +30-60ms ping you will end up somewhere between 9.2 and 13.5m depending on ping and reaction time of the specific player. So it is basically impossible to dodge shots based on reaction the shot below 9 m of distance and it becomes possible at higher distances.
Unsafe loops cannot always be avoided depending on the map and the location in the map you currently are in.
both killer player and survivor player have a ping. just assuming that both player have 60 m/s ping, you have same delay for your input to fire the shot as the survivor does, so it is just net 0. ranged killer are 110% m/s for a reason. they're super slow because your suppose to be way ahead of them in general. This is most evident by when you break pallets as killer, the extra distance to make up is a lot longer at 110% m/s when going in a straight line but trade off is that your ranged killer so you can hit survivor at a range which both weaken and buff shift-w in unique way. As a result, I would almost say that being close to ranged killer is a mistake in itself. The killer is suppose to be in advantage at 8-10 meters because you clearly misplayed your movement somewhere for 110% to be this close. Still do not understand why you want to have second-chances after already making a movement error/instant ADS shot bluff.
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@Blueberry said:
His whip does need to be better but they need to put a lot more strength and play in his kit around the zombies. The zombies are the unique thing about him that makes the game play different. The whip is just another hit over attack that exists on multiple killers. A lot of his skill should be built around playing around his zombies and trying to zone/pincer with them.
The zoning/pincer got reworked into knight. Personally, I think the zoning/pincer was better on Nemesis because it was not consistent. It was more like side-skill which survivor could manipulate in their favor and killer "should be able" to manipulate in their favour. the issue with nemesis's kit is that zombies are too inconsistent at zoning/pincers because they're far too slow and have too little detection. it happens too infrequently such that survivor can avoid zombies entirely and nemesis barely gets to use them for anything other then some minor tracking.
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With that being said, OP version of nemesis could potentially be pretty strong. T3 gives unlimited exposed similar to Wesker's infection and T1/T2 give a weaker stbfl on tier 2 and slightly stronger one on tier 2. It makes nemesis like a ranged-unlimited tier 3 myer's.
People might use nemesis green add-on that boost farm condemn points when you gain infection points on whipping a zombie and that zombie add-on that respawn's faster. farming zombie simulator in dbd in order to rush the tiers. that playstyle would be more viable but overall, I think his add-on are suppose to side between pincer play-style(which ineffective) and T3 rush whip play-style(which is also ineffective because all tier 1-3 have pointless bonuses).
I semi hope nemesis get rework like legion one day because he's cool character in lore. Its sad that he is so hollow in dbd.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295548#Comment_3295548
It is not about looking at him, it's just that it does not reveal him properly, has nothing to do with camera control...
The point is when you consider how long a normal tile is with 200% and 2.5 seconds you can basically outplay even those very strong long loops at cowshed... I think that leaves very little for survivors to do against it... But could test it at a PTB I guess... Also Blight has less control than Pig when it comes to dashes.
it's just that it does not reveal him properly, has nothing to do with camera control...
Ugh, I think it works properly. you just need to work on your camera controls. You'll probably learn it when dev invent AI killer bots. You will select AI ghostface and hopefully figure it out how to reveal ghostface... some day.
The point is when you consider how long a normal tile is with 200% and 2.5 seconds you can basically outplay even those very strong long loops at cowshed.
Is that not the point of anti-loop? To allow gameplay at zero mindgame pallets? I do not think its enough to mindgame those loops though who knows. I disagree with your last statement. blight with hug tech has just as good control at loops in my opinion. maybe a little better in some cases. Not sure.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295325#Comment_3295325
It has nothing to do with survivors being bad, revealing Ghostface just does not work as intended, that's why sometimes you don't reveal him at all even though you are looking at him but then again he sometimes gets revealed behind a wall, what I would like to do is make it more consistent...
As for the changes for Pig I don't see a reason not to make her Dash better, because that's the most fun thing about her, otherwise she is just an M1 killer, the buffs you proposed are way over board 200%ms and 2,5 second duration... You dash like 20 m... That's insanely much xD I wanted to keep it realistic without making her too strong... I just think the Dash should be the main power and traps should only delay but almost never kill unless the survivor does not go for the trap immediately... It's just so boring when people Only run trap addons instead of chase addons, yeah I get it they are stronger but still playing an M1 killer with game delay is not what Pig should be in my mind... You can do great things with the dash, but it's just too weak as it is right now... And since you usually use the dash after you took control of the pallet making it break pallets does not benefit you much...
It has nothing to do with survivors being bad, revealing Ghostface just does not work as intended.
I have no trouble revealing ghostface. Its only in dbd where turning your camera to face a killer is considered difficult. I do not understand why this is conversation in dbd. In every other game, knowing how to move your camera is like... a default skill. Only in dbd does learning camera controls become rocket science.
the buffs you proposed are way over board 200%ms and 2,5 second duration...
In order to avoid writing an essay about how to bad her current ambush dash is at base-kit, I will just say that you can massively bully pig in a chase with current base-kit balance of ambush dash. Considering that blight moves at 230% and has 4 rush tokens which is 4 ambush dashes, I am sure pig will be fine with one dash.
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I would say the reason why survivor perks do not get strong perks is because survivor perks can be multiplied in many cases. Dead hard is an example of a strong perk and look how easily this perk multiplies itself in every single match. The other reason is that do not need better perks because most of what is available is already the best it can be.
Killer perks do not multiply themselves but most of the time, bvhr restricts any creative synergy in their killer perks so the perk barely do anything. If the perk does have strong synergy with x killer, it gets complained about to death. An examples were Spirit & Stridor, Nurse & starstruck, Blight with original Undying+Ruin+Tinkerer. The current survivor baby rage perk is eruption, so I guess we will see how long that perk survives.
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@Unimatrix00 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295348#Comment_3295348
My question is more whether undetectable is bugged or not. Thank you for the suggestion though!
It is not. Use hag's Rusty shackle add-on for generator grabs for your archive challenge.
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eruption used to be 6%, 16 seconds of incapacitated at 30 seconds and barely anyone used it. it does not need 45 second cooldown, nor does it need less then 16 second of incapacitated. The regression is debatable for being jack of all trade perks but at face value, 10% is not too strong by itself. I think this perk would be fine by itself because it reward killer for kicking generator and acquiring downs as the current rewards for kicking generator (2.5% regression) is pointless in non-3 gens.
Overcharge is not hard-skill check. strong survivors can hit the skill-check consistency every time. If anything the perk fails to punish survivor gen-tapping generators because skill-check part of the perk barely activates to begin with. Nobody was using this perk before it got changed. Its only getting used because of its secondary effect.
3 gen camping is effective because of call of brine and overcharge's over-time regression effects. as you stated, you get ~11.5 seconds of regression from overcharge+6.3 second(7.5%) regression from call of brine which is roughly 18 seconds. for comparison, pop goes weasel used to be 25% regression for 20 second of regression and yet these two perks almost give you pop goes weasel in 30 seconds with no hook requirement. Overcharge has no limit to regression, so in practice, it can regress gens to 0 but call of brine is also problematic because the counter is suppose be gen-tapping but gen-tapping in 3 gen for call of brine is just resetting the timer. I do think these two perks need to be more effective in normal gameplay and less effective in 3 gens. At the same time, I highly doubt they will change killer meta until next 2023.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3295308#Comment_3295308
Well, so we have now more reasonable proposition how to buff DS. Just make his hit box slightly (say half radius of huntress, but that's just guess and maybe some other number would be better) larger while keeping his environment hitbox the same. I would 100% support this
please no. that just makes him a bad clone of huntress killer. he should be unique killer.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294605#Comment_3294605
If you think he is shooting yes sure, but then you don't reaction dodge it, that's a big difference...
you are reaction dodging. your just not mixing wiggling and reaction dodging because wiggling makes you lose a lot more distance due to the m2 canceling(on old slinger). it is singular dodging, not continuously dodging. In my opinion, it is higher skill-cap for both killer to land the shot and for survivor to outplay the shot.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294906#Comment_3294906
About the mori of beatraps, the issue here is with the right addons on the correct map you are almost guaranteed to get at least one kill with the traps, and that's just the worst because you could not really do much about it :/ I fully get that it should work as a way to punish greedy survivors, without hurting those who did not play greedy...
When you say punishing greedy survivors for recklessly pushing Gens you mean while they have an active bear trap on right? Because in that case we could just make the timer go faster while they do gems and give it overall additional time to not suffer from large maps too much?
If you give specific criticism we can actually argue about stuff... And overall if annoying stuff gets made less annoying that's a big W in my book (like looking straight at Ghostface stupid mask without revealing him...)
About the mori of beatraps, the issue here is with the right addons on the correct map you are almost guaranteed to get at least one kill with the traps, and that's just the worst because you could not really do much about it :/
that is intended. I would not say reverse bear traps do not guarantee anything. Reverse traps is a risk to die. it has to do with your approach to how you play against traps more then anything. whenever I have played against pig, they have always had tamper timer+crate of gears(in old version, I saw Jigsaw sketch more, since 5 box has more probability to mori you) but jigsaw sketch variant was nerfed. Overall, the traps punish you for efficiency gen-rush the pig because if you pop every single gen exactly when someone is on hook with a trap and their reverse bear trap is 4 tries to remove trap off, you have some probability to instantly get mori by reverse bear traps. I am unsure of exact probability because I do not play much of pig, but If i had to take a guess, it seems to be roughly 33% give or take. It could be higher or lower depending on the map. In my experience, I am either mori by those traps in soloq or just barely take the trap off. Overall I dislike going down vs pig because a single personal looping mistake can result in a loss for your team against these traps in soloq. A strong SWF can deal with pig-traps in a lot less risky way.
Increasing reverse bear traps timer by 30 second would make reverse bear trap mori pointless.
Overall, if the pig player is skilled at playing m1 killers, those traps can force lose/lose where you have to purposely inefficiently pop generators(to avoid teammate head-pop) which gives pig more time to go for chases and just break nearly every single pallet on the map till entire map is barren or you have option of bum-rushing through objective(which is what most player do) and risk an head-pop mori through boxes.
When you say punishing greedy survivors for recklessly pushing Gens you mean while they have an active bear trap on right? Because in that case we could just make the timer go faster while they do gems and give it overall additional time to not suffer from large maps too much?
Faster ticking traps on gen is not what I am talking about. I am self-deterrent to efficiently pop generators vs the traps. In truth, your not suppose to let pig down you 4 times to put 4 reverse bear traps. your suppose to flawless her because her m1 chase is weak. When I say flawless, I am referring to 5 gen chase pig. Its just that 95% of survivors are not good enough to loop pig for 3-4 gens per 1 trap. As a result, there is no reason to improving her chase because most survivors struggle to play against m1 pig. If they improved her stealth and chase, she would be more consistent at applying all 4 reverse bear traps which equates to more chances to mori(with add-on). Stronger chase would also put less reliance on m1-chase perks for pig. I sometimes do get 3-4 gen chases if the pig chases me but I am only human and I will make mistakes in some games against her if the killer player is good.
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Just for fun, suppose pig was to become like strong A-tier killer that is difficult to beat, an example of her changed would be something like following:
-Crouch transition time reduced from 1.3->1.0(Combat strap base-kit), Reworked combat strap to increase movement when charging ambush dash by 20%/1.0 m/s(according wiki), this would be around ~46.5% from ~26.5%).
-Stealth movement speed increased from 92% to 110%(stronger John medical files base-kit), John medical files reduced from 6%->5%).
-Ambush charge time reduced from 0.75 to 0.5(This is 25% Work-shop grease base-kit), reduced Work-shop grease add-on from 50%->25%, changed missed attack to successful attack by 25%.
-Ambush movement speed increased from 172% to 200%(28% increase), Last will add-on rework to increase ambush dash duration by 0.5 seconds.
-Base-kit ambush dash duration increased from 2->2.5 seconds.
This would be an example of much stronger base-kit stealth pig with better chasing tools. I do not see them improving pig because they tend to keep mori-based characters with weak chases so nobody complains about their mori and perceives the killer as low-tier. pig is pretty low-tier so it is right on track in term of perceived strength.
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This is in a nutshell why I do not want to write about changing killers. Just talking about 1 killer is like writing an essay on them. Writing posts like this takes as long as watching an otz-video.
I think some of them like the Ghostface one are quality of life for survivor, but then again revealing him has basically never worked that well and people have always complained that it is inconsistent... With this change at least you won't look at his face anymore and still not reveal him...
Survivors are just bad at looking behind them and do not center their camera(invisible crosshair) to reveal him. do not bother balancing for bad survivor players. GF problems can be summarized as poor time efficiency killer. M1 survivors to remove all mark progress disables his ability to keep lingering mark progression and there is no -real- punishment for being marked. he is missing a chase-tooling. I wanted him to have wesker's first virulent bound where you could dash in nightshroud and if you connect with a marked(exposed) survivor, you can backstab them and they fall on the floor similar to trickster's laceration animation. they took that idea and made wesker out of it which is cool I guess.