Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363933/the-fundamental-issue-with-dead-hard
The problem is that it has no downside. Every other exhaustion perk has some kind of downside.
- Adrenaline - Only activates in end-game and only activates once, mostly used for the heal more than the sprint burst.
- Balanced Landing - Very limited usage and heavily map dependent. Many maps only have 1 or 2 spots you can consistently use this at.
- Head On - Requires the survivor to jump into the locker and sit there for 3 seconds, can't really be used effectively in a chase without combining it with other perks.
- Lithe - Requires you to fast vault, meaning you can't loop perfectly efficiently when using it. In theory you could fast vault and not need to "waste" it, but if you slow vaulted you would get hit, making it one of the least efficient perks, but outside of dead hard is more on demand than the others.
- Overcome - Only works when going from a healthy state to an injured state. If you are hit while injured it doesn't work.
- Smash Hit - Requires you to land a pallet stun, which is sometimes easier said than done. Additionally, a pallet stun, depending on the pallet, killer and setup, can already be a chase ender anyway, so the value you get on this is much lower.
- Sprint Burst - You have to walk to not accidentally use it, or 99 it. This requires you to play around the sprint burst very very specifically and it isn't available for you on complete demand.
And then we have dead hard, where the "downside" is that you need to be injured, but becoming injured is a natural thing that will happen in the course of a chase. And if you don't get injured and you don't use it, you didn't need it. If yo do get injured, then it is always available to you at that point with no downside.
what exhaustion perk do you want survivors to use? keep in mind that survivors have to prepare to go against the strongest killers such as Blight and weaker nurse. If i have to vs blight a perk like Smash hit or Balance landing is just not going to cut it. 150% m/s for 3 second is pointless when the killer i am going against is moving 230% in his power for 4(5) dashes. DH is most effective choice vs strongest killers. Furthermore, what even be viable version of these other exhaustion perks when going against blight?
Head on could be instant charge up, 5 second stun and silent lockers and I am not sure if head on would be useful vs blight.
Smash hit could increase pallet stuns by 2 seconds and trigger on pallet drops instead of stuns. Would this be remotely useful vs blight? Would be pretty weird meta exhaustion perk to use vs Nurse.
Balance landing is conditional perk that requires elevation. there is no way this perk in isolation can ever be meta because its depends on maps. Maybe if you gave survivors a jump function and the perk triggers by jumping? this perk was only used when it had 100% stagger functionality which was independent from speed boost itself. This is type of perk that might be better off as passive ability that is earned by doing some side objective. maybe you cleanse a totem and the next fall is 100% stagger with no speed boost. I don't think balance landing in modern version of dbd can be counted as exhaustion perk. Its not versatile enough to be one.
Lithe could be that when pressing E during a pallet slide/window vault, you become invulnerable during the window vault/pallet vault(for 0.5 seconds post sliding) then break into sprint burst for 3 seconds. Maybe this would be meta?
Overcome: Probably make it work like Mettle of man when your healthy. this makes instant downs not counter it. this perk would be like reverse dh in the sense that you need to be healthy for it to trigger.
Sprint burst is easily closest perk to DH in term of being meta. Giving Sprint burst an activate button instead of running would easily replace DH in the meta if DH was nerfed because it mirrors old DH for distance that DH used to be.
my guess is that if they ever weakened Dead hard to not be top meta perk, They would likely buff one of these perks into meta exhaustion to replace it.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340094#Comment_3340094
I suppose that could be the case and it only seems easy because they aren’t trying to be skillful and predict my pathing. It’s funny you mention Spirit as I think that’s why I actually like playing Knight, he reminds me a lot of Spirit. It’s essentially using the exact same sound and audio queues to track them while invisible. Only real difference is not seeing scratch marks and I start a chase instead of getting a hit from it.
Unlike most players using the guards to pincer I play him more for the macro play and long range guard snipe people while I chase other players with the knight and try to maximize map pressure. I like macro play style killers more than micro ones personally.
Oddly enough I haven’t seen a single knight play like this other than myself. They all just try and poop guards out at loops and pincer, usually goes pretty bad for them. Playing the long range snipe way I do I got up to a 54 win streak which at least shows there’s something there especially since most the players I was going against were all between 2-5k hour players so I’d wager a decent mmr. Lost the streak on Borgo, big surprise right? If it wasn’t for the extremely unbalanced maps like Borgo could’ve probably gone a lot further.
he reminds me a lot of Spirit. It’s essentially using the exact same sound and audio queues to track them while invisible. Only real difference is not seeing scratch marks and I start a chase instead of getting a hit from it.
yep, yep, I agree. He is better then people give him credit for. Shattered Square is pretty tough map for killer. I am surprised that I do not see more map offering from survivors to send me to that map. maybe its because its new map. I played a lot vs Eyrie offerings and farm map offerings. I wonder if this map will get popular for survivor to spam offerings to get easy wins.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340074#Comment_3340074
Oh well I feel like hitting a DS shot is way, way more skillful and challenging than landing a guard. I probably land a chase on 90% of my guards I place. That doesn’t feel all that skillful, only maybe a little.
well i mean your using map of realm and call to arms, so higher radius makes easier, then at same time, nobody survivor really bothers tries to avoid them and then there is fact that if you were spirit main, then tracking survivors is skill that you learned already. You know, a lot of people said spirit is "low skilled, no counter-play"
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340067#Comment_3340067
I mean its still pretty good since you can injure survivors without losing stacks on your end. Gives ya some easy cutoffs and survivors really don't know how to loop a killer with 3 stacks.
yeah but problem is that if your going to design a killer based off pwyf, then you need give killer instant down because issue with pwyf is that its hard conserve stacks.
Otherwise, it is like wraith with pwyf. you can farm stacks quickly as wraith but you lose stacks as quickly as you get them.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340062#Comment_3340062
I like the idea, but then you’d have people just getting downed by AI alone and that would infuriate the player base. Would feel pretty skill less.
The skill in using guard should be in its placement. what happens after the guard successful starts a chase is extra fluff. Its kinda like deathslinger's spear, your suppose to dodge the spear but once you have been hit, you have high probability in taking a health-state worth of damage. Its technically possible to break the spear/not get hit by the guard but its killer favoured at that point.
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@supersonic853 said:
I don't think its a bug that he doesn't lose stacks when summoning guards right? I think its a cool niche perk combo with a killer. Like pinhead with horder (the one time it saw use lol) . If they make the guards a little more consistent and have them not respect pallets (which is a bug) could be another cool synergy with a killers power. What do you think of it?
in release of knight, he used to start chases and lose chases immediate after summoning a guard, so he could easily farm pwyf token stacks but they removed that. apparently they fixed as a bug. make me think they wanted knight to perhaps use chase perks? Spirit fury used also grant charges if he broke pallets with it. they fixed that as well, no clue why because most of the killer power that break pallet gain spirit fury stacks, so why shouldn't he? could be cool perk but as usual dev remove any possible creativity synergy on killer end.
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@Blueberry said:
I mean how do we buff long range knight while simultaneously fixing the unhealthy interactions? I don’t have a good answer
increase movement speed of guards by 5-10% if he draws patrols further 10 meter away. Decrease knight m/s by 5-10% when a guard is chasing another survivor. The 2vs1 principal is interesting as killer, but premise of 2 killers chasing should mean that your facing 2 weaker killers. Cool concept but knight in particular(main killer) is too strong with his guards when your in the corner of the map but has no effectiveness anywhere else. I think they just failed to balance his 2vs1 in mutiple situations so you get 100% hits in some loops and a completely worthless ability in other cases. Two extremes.
OP post is dumbing the killer power to break pallet is silly and kills knight's design. He is also not meant to control guards either. You play twins if you want the 2 controllable killer experience. I believe their pick-rate is very unpopular at <1%. He is also not meant to have patrolling zombies. You pick Nemesis if you want automatic patrolling zombies(which might worst power in isolation in the game if this was killer's only ability).
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339445#Comment_3339445
DS basekit would be a disaster. DS is already really damn strong when it comes to giving a massive and completely free bodyblock, which - especially if it's done in a coordinated manner when you're carrying a survivor can turn games around.
You'd have to give killers a pretty enormous buff to compensate, otherwise we'd probably be in a worse state than pre 6.1.0 kill rates were.
Uh...Reass works twice per survivor, right? Not once a trial.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339444#Comment_3339444
Huh?
A. What? Okay, I'm not sure if you understood what I'm saying. Right now, the best option if you're being facecamped is to sit there getting hit on the hook for ages so your team can do the gens and get out. You get 0 BP for any of that and you'll depip.
Getting facecamped isn't 'messing up', nobody can loop every killer for 5 gens every game.
The issue is that, in solo queue, you have zero reason to sit there and take it. Much faster to just cable pull or suicide. And that's a problem.
B. Uh, yeah? The...mechanics of the game? There is even a 'Distraction' system where, if you're being chased while other survivors are doing stuff, you get partial credit for that stuff. The problem is that this partial credit is A. pitiful and B. doesn't apply to sitting on the hook getting slapped by a Bubba.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339438#Comment_3339438
Here's an interesting thought for you then.
What is 'winning' as a killer?
Is it a 4k?
A 3k?
A 2k?
There is no formal win state whatsoever.
On survivor? Is it escaping personally? Getting a majority out?
For me, on both roles, by win-state is pipping. That's honestly as far as I can take it.
I think most people can agree 3k-4k is a win for killer. conversely, that means that not getting 3-4k is loss, so 0-2k is loss.
Survivor is unfortunately team game. Its the nature of asymmetric games. for me, 2 or more people escaping is the survivor winning. Survivor a lot easier to win as but the caveat for survivor is that sometimes your team winning means you dying which can feel bad at times. For example I dislike looping a killer for 4 gens then getting facecamped then dying while my team escapes. that kinda sucks but I understand it is part of team game dynamic.
I don't think depip or piping means anything. When I look at this emblem system, it seems that it was designed with the idea to punish killers for optimal plays and punish survivors for optimal efficiency. Its like someone looked at the game and tried to punish camping/tunneling/slugging/mori/instant downs and someone looked at survivor and tries to punish gen-rushing & encourage farming with the killer. at face value, its just weird. That is why when you play killer, certain killer are really bad at getting their adept because their power punishes them in emblems and survivors in general often depip/safety pip if they gen-rush without farming with the killer. it makes it somewhat challenging to go to rank 1 as survivor unless you play a lot and get potato teammate+bad killer. it is meaningless system.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339038#Comment_3339038
Midwich was actually my vote as well. I think that's actually my favorite map as survivor and killer even though most people hate it.
To me I feel like many maps layouts and tile settings are all nearly identical and just reskins. Midwich with its layers actually plays out differently and gives it more depth while actually feeling like a different map.
I also find it to be one of the more balanced maps as well. There isn't an abusable main building, loops feel like actually a fair 50/50, pallets don't feel excessive, the map isn't too big and you can't see each other a mile away so hold W isn't as encouraged.
Bonus for being a good map for quite a few of the weaker killers as well.
i do not like elementary school. its one of the maps where hold-w is highly encouraged because of long hallways. The killer that have kits to counter hold-w strategies are really oppressive on the map because your forced to do it to get optimal results and the killer that suck vs it have a very boring hold-w generator simulator match if your opponent understands the heartbeat mechanic. I would say its feast or famine type map.
Given 4vs1 ratio on votes for survivor. Shouldn't survivor just pick garden of joy automatically? that should be an easy auto win map for survivor. I wonder how many killer players would be brave enough to play on garden of joy. we might get some very long queues with that as map choice. That would be kinda funny.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339421#Comment_3339421
I'm not sure how much further we can go, really.
I mean, yeah. Fix the killers that can bypass BT or those that are nearly impossible to unhook against. But beyond that...mm, it would be a complete teardown of the entire game's mechanics and I'm not sure that's viable.
I think your talking about the video game loser video game paradigm. The paradigm is that everyone wants to be a winner in video games but only few people are true winner in video games. most player are losers in video games and a big part of video games in general retention is making losing not feel bad. I think that is huge secret to making successful video games. you want to make losing not feel bad but make winning feel good. This makes player want to play games to win but they do not feel bad from a loss. You want player to keep playing the game even when they lose. Making players feel good about wins is not difficult. Most games provide dopamine hit when you win. Making losing fun is a lot more challenging I think.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338227#Comment_3338227
if you choose you + bad swf, or you + 3 good solo players + hud
I would always choose 2
bad swf and bad solo are suppose to lose. if you play bad in video games, your suppose to lose against player that play better then you.
@Blueberry said:
Hopefully now that the HUD is in they will buff a lot of the weaker killers accordingly, especially the stealth killers who got hit the hardest by the HUD being added.
To say the HUD was just a QoL change though is extremely disingenuous, as it is at the end of the day a very large buff. While of course not bringing solo entirely to swf level it is still much higher now than it was previously, which is where killers were previously balanced around. So while not by their metrics time to bring killers quite to swf levels, they would at least be due for a buff in general to bring them to the "new" solo level. Preferably through map reworks (size/tile strength) and weaker killers being brought up to current times.
anything that is positive change is a buff for one side. bvhr take real long time to make any productive killer changes and the last time they did smallest positive changes for killer, survivors said the patch was killer favoured... for months. big ouch.
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@doobiedo said:
Wow okay did not realize this, thanks. I have 150 hours or so in this game but I still feel like a complete newbie and barely understand what is going on. I assume most times I think something must be a bug or cheating there is some actual explanation I just don't understand.
spine chill used to work against stealth killers. this got changed recently to not work against stealth killers.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339190#Comment_3339190
Why? Simple. Because horrible killers that can't catch anyone can decide to delete any progress survivors do. And I mean completely delete it. So if they can't catch anyone and nobody can progress gens, then the game continues until one side looses temper and gives up or game shuts down. There are 0 other reasons.
This is also the reason why I wish knight was deleted from the game. He is not super strong. He is not even super weak now. He is just super predictable and probably going to hold you in game for 30+ minutes.
Also from my perspective as survivor main. Please delete both RPDs. The maps are very killer sided even considering large number of pallets (exceptions exists - poor huntress) + considering the new main - pure and utter disgust whenever I notice it's this map, delete Borgo even if it has many pallets - the map always feels awful to play. Delete lery's as it's super killer sided yet again (even if it contains good number of pallets). And while we are at it - delete midwitch even if it has like 24 pallets. The map was never ever ever even remotely good for survivors. This about sums up my experience with (some) maps that have many pallets. And I think there's no redeeming them. I don't want remake. I want delete button
you realize that knight cannot down anyone currently with his power in isolation? Like physically those games being that long show radical problem with how bad knight's chase efficiency is in regards to winning. The killer should not take 30 minutes to win games because their power is so ineffective at downing survivors. Also he is not only killer to able to 3 gen. almost every killer can 3 gen and a lot of other killer are a lot stronger at it then he is at 3 gen. Also, not every 3 gen for survivor is auto-loss. a lot of maps, you can break a 3 gen depending the map and how close proximity the 3 gens are.
@Pulsar said:
Two things can be problematic at once.
Is map design bad? yes, astoundingly so.
Are certain perks also unhealthily designed? Also yes.
I wish people would stop calling stuff they dislike as unhealthy designs. not everything is black and white. there is grey zones. Unpopular opinion, but eruption is not that bad. not every map is badly design either. it depends the killer and what tools you have to work with to win the match.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339123#Comment_3339123
And what purpose would that serve? You chased someone and got nothing. That is entirely the point of what the Enrage feature does in VHS. When you hit someone they go down and start bleeding out and permanently losing health.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3339135#Comment_3339135
-"I think your slightly exaggerating. Killer micro play matters a lot more then I think you realize for killer. killer powers matter quite a bit."
I think you're dead wrong. Take any Killer from the "C" list played by the best player in the world for that killer. Have them play with whatever addons they choose across every map in the game against different highly skilled SWF teams. And then Bring in someone like Hens to play Nurse with no perks and no addons (not telling the survivors the nurse has nothing to help). Hens on naked nurse will absolutely destroy any killer from the C block.
Almost every killer in the C block is going to struggle on the majority of survivor sided maps even with "the best possible loadout".
This is one of the big problems with DBD. The difference between best in slot Nurse/Blight and Best in slot anything else is massive.
um yeah? that is because they've balance off soloq which plays survivor really poorly. that is not say that you can't win with random teams playing survivor but its definitely harder especially consider that your at very -1 perk slot on information. dead hard is like essential to every survivor build(or use another exhaustion but a lot of exhaustion are not that good and very conditional in effectiveness) and then you have to deal with teammate have trouble healing so you end up bring COH which killer complain about 24/7 which is funny. The purpose is so your teammate are not playing no mither the entire game for taking 1 hit. You get 1 free perk slot to use whatever you want. If killer are not complaining about COH, then they're complaining med-kits.
Almost every killer in the C block is going to struggle on the majority of survivor sided maps even with "the best possible loadout".
That is because a lot of D-tier to C-block killers have really bad balance on their base statistic for their power so of course they won't do well.
Like looking trapper who otz rate as worst. what issues does trapper have that make very bad to play? It takes longer to setup traps then it does for survivor to disable them. the power setting time takes too long making it almost useless in chase. relies on 3 gen-lock down. What is bad about sadako that makes D-tier according otz list? Bad stealth, has lullaby for w/e reason. Mori takes forever to activate even with condemn add-on's. Long TV cooldowns at base-kit. terrible invisibility in chase. If you believe dev kill statistic, Sadako is 65% kill-rate, #1 killer in the game /shrug. What about myer's? Why is he here? Takes long time to get out of t1 without stalking add-on, irrelevant ev2 bonuses, can be looped as m1 killer in tier 3 if survivor is good at pallet looping. Relies on instant kills to be relevant which is not ideal for killer. Freddy just needs revert pre-nerf. everything that is bad about freddy is bad because it got nerfed(add-on, walking m/s for setting snares, pointless dream world etc.). Freddy is the revert zone. The list goes on. One thing I have to say is just because a character is A-tier does not mean that character cannot be better. In some cases, even A-tier characters could use QOL to their gameplay. Of course its less major then what D-tier char would get improvement but QOL can still help.
So when your saying "Nurse & blight will outperform D-tier killers". Well yeah of course it outperforms D-tier killers. those D-tier are bad. that is why they are D-tier..... Killer micro plays matter a lot and their base-kit a lot as well.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338698#Comment_3338698
Having a heal cap makes sense in a world where you can't kick generators that are at 100% so they go back to 99% progress.
If DBD moved away from 3 gen or gg then we could have a game that focuses on chases instead of 3 gen and tunneling.
The most efficient way for me to play killer is to hook one person three times. Convince me I should ever not do this? Limited healing does that. Being able to turn completed gens back to 99% does that too.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338792#Comment_3338792
-"dbd is really weird in the sense that the better you get at dbd, the more restricted and punished you get for being good."
It's worse than you think because as your skill level goes up as killer you get to the point where you either need to stop playing, throw matches or switch to Blight/Nurse.
-"survivor is also restricted in soloq in term of the amount of information you get to make correct plays at the correct time in a given match."
This is no longer true. Being able to see gen progress in real time with no callout gives you more information than is fair.
Honestly we need to either buff almost all the killer perks or give killers that are not nurse-blight somewhere between 6-8 total perk slots to balance this out.
Honestly we need to either buff almost all the killer perks or give killers that are not nurse-blight somewhere between 6-8 total perk slots to balance this out.
I think your slightly exaggerating. Killer micro play matters a lot more then I think you realize for killer. killer powers matter quite a bit. A series of micro plays that the killer makes a mistake in and the survivor triumph over does greatly change outcome of the match. Your ability to use killer power effectively and not deal with boring drawback of killer powers more valuable then you realize. killer perk matter a lot as well. i mean its 4 perks vs 16 perks. so yeah it is important that killer perks contribute to the match for killer? I do not think you need 6-8 perks slots. just 4 good perks.
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@Predated said:
Ah yes, increase the gap between solo and swf to make killer easier thanks to exploiting the lack of communication, instead of closing that gap to see where killers lack the most when playing against coordinating survivors.
You do realize that after the meta changes in 6.1, with Thana being the way it was, the average killrate was 3.5? That means that survivors rarely escaped, and when they did, it was most likely hatch.
Yeah, killer meta kinda sucks right now, but survivor meta has sucked too. Just take a break from the role/game untill they change it. I've done it before, heck, I've played killer games for 3 chapters only, I've played survivor games for 3 chapters only, I've left the game for 8 chapters once. Taking a break when you cant handle the current stress around the meta is not something to be ashamed of. You're not unskilled for it, you're not hating the game for it, you're not even lame for doing so.
thana is pretty useless now though. maybe one day the perk gets a little bit of love back. I remember when thana was my favourite gen defence perk when i first got dbd. oh how things change....
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big lol. I knew someone would make a post on fake pallets on doctor. i was memeing with those to see how well WoO survivors play without their crutch perk. now people are asking a change on that. this post made me laugh so hard. hehe
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338656#Comment_3338656
-"if your playing at top-level and your not amazing with your killer. you should expect to lose against survivor to equal level unless you play better than them"
True did a good job of wasting quite a bit of time. He knows how to play blight and hard countered the chase mechanics extremely well. And then he added insult to injury with the Dead Hard.
-"Your post is complaining about solo HUD matching SWF-level decision making. The gen UI is good step forward to bridge gap between SWF and solo."
Ok so when are we going to bridge the gap between the worst killer and the best killer? Bringing all players up to SWF levels if fine if we give all killers ~9.0 movement speed chase abilities, strong anti loop, and the ability to end all chases quickly.
There are two killers in the game well suited to deal with SWF and everything else is left in the dirt.
We need to see changes so that Trapper, Myers, Doctor, etc. are all within 10-15% effectiveness of Nurse.
k so when are we going to bridge the gap between the worst killer and the best killer?
Good question. No clue. Some killer might never become challenging to play against and will stay as worst killer for better or worse. All I can say is that a lot of killer power are made extremely safe such that the killer player is suppressed from using creative perks to make the killer difficult to escape from and that killer power themselves are suppressed such that the player does not get too much reward from said ability. dbd is really weird in the sense that the better you get at dbd, the more restricted and punished you get for being good. I have no words to describe this.
survivor is also restricted in soloq in term of the amount of information you get to make correct plays at the correct time in a given match. you can get better information through perks like window of opportunity, kindred and bond to make near perfect plays in soloq similar to a swf, but its boring to use same perks over and over again rather then playing more random perks. I think that is why a lot of survivor like playing in a swf because you have more freedom to play how you want to play. with recent UI changes, it is little less restrictive. your post is effectively complaining that the survivor is playing better and is less in the dark then before.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338647#Comment_3338647
that because a lot of survivor play poorly vs guard and allow you to corral the survivor in favor positions as knight.
I feel that in certain situations that can be true. However, I really don't see how the survivor already on one side of the map can somehow not let me keep closing the distance while the guard forces their movement in predictable manners.
It is just that right now, why bother to avoid any guard chase when guard chases is irrelevant in most cases.
I find that I either want to use the guard to waste the survivors time or use it to help corral the survivor into an unwinnable scenario. I find that when I have a guard with me in chase I get good value from it. Even if it results in not getting a hit its getting them typically closer to edge map where I will get my hit.
If you getting hit with his guards, then your facing really chill survivors because the guard should never hit survivor with current stats.
I find that if the assassin is in chase with me I do see it getting hits and not feeling the survivor had to play poorly for that to happen. I would agree that the other 2 are less threating in chase in terms of actually getting a hit.
I find that when I have a guard with me in chase I get good value from it. Even if it results in not getting a hit its getting them typically closer to edge map where I will get my hit.
Yes but this is time consuming. a big part of killer is time efficiency. getting hits quickly. It is important for killer to get rewards on each micro-action. Every second does count especially with your playing against efficient gen teams.
I feel that in certain situations that can be true. However, I really don't see how the survivor already on one side of the map can somehow not let me keep closing the distance while the guard forces their movement in predictable manners.
Looping is not suppose to be about 1vs1 the killer for 5 gens even though that is.... possible for weak killers on strong survivor maps. Looping is suppose to be about wasting the killer time enough to complete the generator objective. Wasting the knight's time is not hard especially since 2/3 guards are not that effective. With how current knight is, If I could just replace all my guards into jailers, I would probably just only use jailer with map of the realm. The other two guards are pretty worthless currently. Jailer enter chases the easiest and the knight is only relevant at zoning plays which this guard specializes in. Assuming other two guards would become more effective at anti-shift w, then knight could effectively use all 3 guards to maximum effect instead 1/3 of his ability. Anyhow that is my take on the knight. He is not totally rubbish. He could be more rounded killer.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336996#Comment_3336996
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_N2gUoAXxw
This is a perfect example of how stupid the hud changes are. Spoiler: there are only three hooks in a Blight game.
What changed? Everyone can see that someone was working on a generator and it was ~80% so they go and find that generator instead of starting a new one. This completely breaks the game.
-"Pvp games should be balanced and both sides should have equal chance"
The games that have the best balance have take account for low, medium and high skill players. DBD doesn't really balance for high skill players. This ruins the game when you get to high MMR as killer unless you play Nurse/Blight. I've said it many times because it remains true : the best Doctor in the world is going to be vastly inferior to just an "ok" Blight.
Likewise there is a mountain of difference between solo players and SWF teams on voice coms.
the blight had rough game. if your playing at top-level and your not amazing with your killer. you should expect to lose against survivor to equal level unless you play better than them. blight has potencial to outperform his opposition. he is got no problems.
it was ~80% so they go and find that generator instead of starting a new one. This completely breaks the game.
Survivors playing the game properly should not be considering breaking the game. The blight played worse then the survivor therefore lost. that is how games are suppose be.
Likewise there is a mountain of difference between solo players and SWF teams on voice coms.
Your post is complaining about solo HUD matching SWF-level decision making. The gen UI is good step forward to bridge gap between SWF and solo. they do have some other stuff to bridge for soloq survivor but they're making good progress.
DBD doesn't really balance for high skill players.
Previously, it was unable to balance for highest skill players because soloq player were not playing at highest level. Only SWF was. Now it is certainly closer. That is why a lot of killer kept getting nerfed for w/e reason because they were oppressive for soloq. Billy, freddy and deathslinger did not deserve negative changes but they got negative changes because of the whole soloq vs swf level. Hopefully these type of changes get reverted in the future when the game is more evenly balanced between soloq/SWF. other killer should also receive improvements so that killer can more creatively use their power to alter the games outcome(if they are good enough at using the ability). dbd as a whole in my opinion suppresses survivor's ability to optimize their objective(except in SWF) and suppress a lot of killer power as result poor survivor play. They look at kill-rates, see that the kill-rate is high than think the killer is over-performing when in reality the survivor are playing poorly. killer power are not over-performing. soloq survivor is under-performing. Now they should under-performing less often with new UI changes. Most people know that SWF/Survivor playing well is too strong and killer using their ability correctly is too weak. this is why they will need to revert/improve killer powers progressively as they equalize soloq to SWF level. Killer do deserve fair chance to win against good solo/swf survivors. It is just that good solos is not that strong and good swf is obviously too strong(in comparison to most killer cast's power-level).
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338454#Comment_3338454
It's more that if they made snipes also give hits you can injure and then snipe for the easy down. Unlike Spirit you really can't dodge a snipe if the Knight has an idea of where you are since it's only roughly 3 seconds from start to finish to get a guard summoned 32m away. Can't really hide in those scenarios.
As I said, the problem for him is not getting guard into chase. Its him getting rewards for starting a chase.
I've feel like I get rewarded with long range snipes. It doesn't result in the guard getting the hit but me using the guards' aura and then doing deep cuts to pinch or corral the survivor. I feel it is worth doing long range snipes as long as the survivor isn't in the middle of the map, and I find no risk in really doing them since they are fairly high success rate.
they already dislike playing vs him even though this version of the knight is cakewalk to escape from.
I've been farming dc's on him. I even ended up in a game where I had two players dc after having a fun and interactive chase. I play killers like Nurse and Pinhead and I get nowhere near the amount of dc's on them compared to Knight. I think it really pushes people of the edge when I stand there watching the AI down them in a corner. 😂😂
that because a lot of survivor play poorly vs guard and allow you to corral the survivor in favor positions as knight. If you getting hit with his guards, then your facing really chill survivors because the guard should never hit survivor with current stats. the only time the guard should ever hit the survivor is if survivor purposely uses dead hard against the guard for sprint burst. I have done experiment where I try to get 1 hit on guard when I win the game during EGC. The end game survivor can easily outrun all 3 guards with no effort whatsoever.
It's more that if they made snipes also give hits you can injure and then snipe for the easy down. Unlike Spirit you really can't dodge a snipe if the Knight has an idea of where you are since it's only roughly 3 seconds from start to finish to get a guard summoned 32m away. Can't really hide in those scenarios.
I am sure you avoid guard chases. It is just that right now, why bother to avoid any guard chase when guard chases is irrelevant in most cases. Survivors only attempt to try avoid these guard chases when guard chases start to punish them.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337962#Comment_3337962
-"I think freddy is up there with top 3 worst killer in the game"
First off I do not agree MM is one of the worst killers in the game. If we picked some really good players ( and took away their voice coms during the game) I feel like I could do way better with MM than most people's favorite killer streamer could do with Doctor.
In this day and age I only play MM using extra stalk+ either purple tombstone or infinite T3. With those addons he is easily an A tier killer if you understand how to use that kit. If you don't want to take my word for it ( I mained MM for 2 years) go watch coconut's video.
I don't agree Trapper is in the bottom three either. Why? He is "ok" with bloody coil. You play corrupt+ some gen regerssion and bloody coil. You can pick where you three gen and then you control that the entire game. Your power physically turns loops off and that is very hard to get around. If bloody coil became base Kit trapper would jump up to B tier instantly.
-"Doc has really good 1vs1. he requires a lot of precision and map knowledge to use his shock therapy"
I'm going to assign you some homework. Watch Truetalent and Otz play against doctor. Watch them play as doctor. You will discover that Doctor's main kit power is detection. The anti loop was literally an afterthought as he didn't have it when he came out. Doc's power can be completely ruined by latency (just like all grabs in DBD). Both these very experienced players when against good survivors need about 6 shocks to get a hit. That is a garbage tier power for anti loop.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337971#Comment_3337971
"Freddy can only teleport when there are gens left. He gets weaker and weaker with every gen completed. In the end, he has nothing."
While you're not wrong about this it means Freddy can 3 gen better than 90% of the killers.
"There is nothing in his addon-pass which helps his abilities besides Masterpiece and Sketch"
Once again you are not wrong. Freddy had some brutal addons. The devs went medieval on his kit AND his addons - freddy was brutalized.
Reducing his total snares was fair. Reducing their snare power was not necessary.
Nobody even bothers to learn the "dangerous" freddy addons because that's not a thing anymore. Swing chains/paintbrush live on only in memory.
Freddy with old tinkerer was a monster with multiple gen regression perks.
Freddy is now severely limited by someone running We'll make it OR CoH. He had very good at hit and run gen defense and that's mostly dead.
The problem with killer reworks is that Freddy was only punished and killers like Legion/Pig/GF got a number of positive changes. Pig lost her abusive gear combo - yay. Pig now no longer can have everyone remove traps on the first try. That's an amazing QoL change.
The reality is that we have come to a point in the road with balance where we are either talking about Blight/Nurse and SWF or we are talking about everything else. Nobody really gives any F's in chat for the last category. But the big other three elephants in the room are what are ruining the game.
Who then is worse than Freddy? Doctor and Ring are the most obvious killers. If you don't play the condemn/no hook game then Ring is a worse version of freddy. Like legion she gets the first hit easy and then is in an even worse position. Since we are on the topic - Legion with Iri button and Julie's mixtape is crazy strong. A lot of people say : legion sucks. Again I'll say I could beat Otz or True on "the Game" if they play best doctor build and I play best legion build. Clown with no pinky is worse than freddy but Clown has the option for "Maximum effort".
Largely speaking Wraith is probably worse than freddy on most of the maps. Sometimes I play wraith but if I do you can bet I have purple move speed and purple aura vision. Freddy probably just needs to have some decent addon choices and he would be "ok".
In this day and age I only play MM using extra stalk+ either purple tombstone or infinite T3. With those addons he is easily an A tier killer if you understand how to use that kit. If you don't want to take my word for it ( I mained MM for 2 years) go watch coconut's video.
I think almost everyone just plays J.Myer+Tombstone piece Myers. I am also laughing when you said that its only "A-tier". That implies that you don't think its S-tier because these add-on with proper build is easily top #1 top #2 build in entire game that only starstruck nurse could rival in term of power-level. Recently since addition of Pinhead and addition of Nemesis, Their perks have elevated Tombstone piece Myer to unprecedented level of power. Previously, Tombstone piece was meme build for Myers where the objective of the build was to find obsession, escape chase 3 times, become 130% then stalk everyone else and instant kill people after reaching 99% EV2. This strategy sounds simple because it is however finding obsession was pretty difficult in a timely manner. if you were facing a Myers, a lot people know his PWYF perk and would hide against it in case he had the add-on. If you didn't finish stalking people before 5 gens were done, then you'd lose with 0-1 kills. Simple killer to beat, right? That is until Nemesis & Pinhead comes along. Lethal Pursuer and Deadlock really ascended this build because they took away weakness of his add-on. With Lethal pursuer+PWYF+Corrupt+Deadlock, Lethal allows you to find obsession right at the start of the trial and CI+Deadlock are such powerful early game slowdown perks that its almost impossible for you to use all 5 generators with this amount of early game delay that these two perk provide. For how easy it is to find obsession, get 3 stacks, stalk everyone and instant kill 2 people with his purple add-on, you would have to be completely new to lose with this build. I am pretty sure that most player could probably go on 100+ win streaks with this add-on combination and perk combination. Its that absurdly strong. Its very hard to counter. The odds that 4 soloq player have distortion to counter Lethal and play perfectly to avoid his instant kill mori is very low.
That is kinda why I said that Myers has lowest skill-floor & lowest skill-ceiling in the game. he is all raw power and not much else. Judith tombstone is also strong with myer's but its overall weaker then tombstone piece because the ability to mori 2 people in 1 ev3 is rare because survivor can just jump in lockers. The 9% slowdown is also large disadvantage for chaining instant moris with add-on. So yes Myer with instant kill mori is very likely an S-tier killer. Not a very skillful S-tier but I digress.
I think corrupt and bloody coil is somewhat overrated. Corrupt intervention is a perk to to safe guard a bad start but when it comes to trapper. he always has bad start and him having good start is meaningless. its wasted perk slot. bloody coil is an easy to counter against trapper. you can disable traps with injured characters. he has normal TR. he cannot stealth you when your disarming traps. he has no anti-shift w tools or gap-close skills. his chase is reliant on you not knowing where his traps are but in swf, you can follow him around and disable any traps he does set. in chase, his setup time is long so the application of using his power in chase is non-existent. this is why iri stone is good for him. it takes away his weakness which is people disablign his traps and following him around. it allows him to put traps at pallets or windows without risk of survivor disabling his traps. if you disable his traps with said add-on, the add-on will re-arm them for him so your wasting your time trying disable traps. it makes him good 3 gen-lock character as he can turn an entire area into deadzone with the add-on. 3 gen-locking has never been easier then now with current gen-kick meta perks. With overcharge/cob/eruption/stbfl, his play-style has never been stronger then now. he plays the game at 1 gen and he either loses or wins based off your ability to break 3 gen. with current strength of these perks, trapper is arguably just as good at holding endless 3 gens as hens showcases with knight with 60 minute games.
As I said, doctor has good 1vs1. the doctor that tru3 or otz faces are not good doctor's. A common strategy for vs doctor is pre-dropping pallets but thanks to his green range electrode add-on, he can prevent survivor from pre-drop pallets which is typically weakness for m1 killers. doc has other weakness though. He has no gap-closing or lethality so hold-w with health-states or bodyblocking is strong but i am not entirely sure how common this is in soloq. swf can easily abuse this but its uncommon soloq. to cover this weakness, doctor is big user of STBFL despite having no ability to preserve stacks, its his only option vs bodyblocking and health-state hold-w gameplay. a lot of killer are forced to break safe pallets and god pallets but doctor's ability to apply shock therapy to prevent them from being dropped allows him to counter just about any loop. At least when I play doctor, most of pallets remain standing against me. I barely break pallets as him because I can prevent most of them from being dropped and if they are dropped, I usually get hit for letting survivors drop pallets. Because how good his 1vs1 is at disregarding survivor's skill-level at looping, You can tunnel people with doctor indiscriminately. No survivor will ever be able to loop you for 5 generator if you use his shock therapy perfectly. He is not time efficient at tunneling as other top-tier killers but he is consistent at winning the chase. His biggest enemy like most killer is gen-speed. As long you successfully tunnel 1 survivor out of the game by 4 generator completion, you are very likely to close out the match as doctor. His madness slowdown and tracking can easily close out 3vs1 without much contest.. I would not say he is top tier but he is far from worst killer in the game. I used to main him for like first 3 years of dbd back when he was a lot worse. After his update, he was a lot stronger. I still play him occasionally but I have other interests in other killers more so then him.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337852#Comment_3337852
that is like whole spirit phase-walk argument all over again. How do you hide vs Spirit phase walk when your are injured? Your post seems to think that it is just game-over at that point.
How do you hide from Knight when it takes around 3 seconds to do a max patrol while also having a detection range of 12-18m? It takes Spirit half the time to even get into her power and isn't just end power when you are next to survivor for hit. On top of that Knight speed is roughly double the speed Spirit has while in power.
spirit comes out of her power immediately and hits you. The knight comes out of his power and then summons a guard. I think reason why guards were slow in PTB was because I think the idea was to invert the cast times of those two killers. Knight can go into his power and move quicker but guard takes a while to spawn so you could potentially shift-w it while spirit has cast time to enter power but she exits the power immediately. Its just that I think people had trouble using the ability because it was a bit too difficult to start guard chase, so a lot of people thought knight sucked in the ptb. A lot of types of buffs he is been getting has been about making it easier and easier to get guards into chase in the past two changes. As I said, the problem for him is not getting guard into chase. Its him getting rewards for starting a chase. You can make argument that its too easy to get guards into a chase now but I am not entirely sure that is true more so that survivor have little reason to avoid them so everyone tanks every guard chase as it has no real significant on anywhere besides the corner of the map.
In term of 18 meters detection range, The guards themselves are meant to have different strengths and weaknesses. In the case of Jailer, the jailer is suppose to be weak in the chase and is meant to be countered by hold-w away from him. he is corralling 2vs1 type guard which is current play-style that dominates the knight's current gameplay. The other two guards which are Assassin and Carnifex are meant to counter hold-w. The assassin favours grabbing the banner and Carnifex favours avoiding the chase because his banner spawns later. that is my interpretation of his ability. You are meant to do different counter-play to defeat each guard. with how the knight currently is, there is no reason to change your strategy vs each guard because all 3 of them are countered by shift-w and running away. that is my current problem for why I think the knight is underwhelming for a killer.
One of the reason why I think he potencial as killer is that many killer rely on survivor to make mistakes. With the knight, there is more of reliance for knight to make mistake for you to avoid a guard chase. survivor still have some control the chase but not completely. this is why I think if knight becomes strong, survivor will dislike playing vs him. they already dislike playing vs him even though this version of the knight is cakewalk to escape from.
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@Blueberry said:
My main gripe is that Map of the Realm and Call to Arms need to be base kit. Until that happens they're basically forced to be ran every game leaving no room to ever run anything else. Some would also argue Dried Horsemeat as well.
After those required addons the rest of them are all completely garbage. He already needs a huge addon pass just after being released.
He also still has quite a few bugs such as the guards turning and going around a loop if the pallet is thrown right in front of them.
that applies to so many killers where you would want some add-on as base-kit. PH I want range. Bubba I want chili. huntress I want green wind-up. Doc I want green range. Legion I want mischief list base-kit. GF I want philly base-kit. Artist I want Festering Carrison. The list goes on. Just accept that on some killers, you do not get add-on choices due to killer being too oppressive /s.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337540#Comment_3337540
-"He cannot stand a chance on higher levels."
Freddy's real strength was that he can teleport and has low-mid antiloop. This allows for him to use gen protection/regression perks better than almost any other killer.
There are a number of good regression perks right now but the best combo requires you to kick the gens.
Freddy has much better chance of winning vs good survivors than a number of killers. For example he is an entire tier ahead of Doctor as well as clown (without pinky).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337701#Comment_3337701
-"The concept of the dreamworld so the OG freddy seemed interesting to me"
It was beyond stupid. It was both incredibly weak and massively overpowered at the same time. To preface this you need to understand that Freddy came relatively soon after Doctor. Before the doctor there was no aura reading in the game. That marked a huge shift that started to delete the stealth playstyle as a viable option. You also need to know that long long ago the game had massive fog that made seeing anything really hard past 20m. This is a picture from a friend of mine.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/F736AO5CFHKR/dbd-old-fog.jpg
Old freddy had to tag you with his power in order to be able to hit you. So imagine needing to get within about 7m and then you use the power (which might have snared you when you tapped it - cant remember). And then after 7 seconds the target fell asleep. Then you could hit them.
Meanwhile anyone outside of something like 24m was always visible to you. Is that not beyond stupid? So there was no escaping a freddy.
Other stupid things included being able to fail a skill check to wake yourself up.
It was dumb not to mention bad and needs to stay away forever.
I do not agree. I think freddy is up there with top 3 worst killer in the game. only trapper and myer base-kit is worse but trapper and myer at least have strong add-on. trapper has iri stone and myer has tombstone add-on's. Clown is also pretty weak at base-kit but once again, he at least has pinky finger which is pretty good add-on for him until dev nerf it to the ground and put -2 bottles permanent on it, then clown will get his permanent pseudo deletion. Freddy has zero good add-on and no real redeeming qualities while having really bad base-kit. Doc has really good 1vs1. he requires a lot of precision and map knowledge to use his shock therapy but if you master his shock therapy, he is very effective tunneller. Current freddy is pretty bad everything. He has bad stealth outside of dream world. He needs m1 hits to activate his ability so people that stay awake make him an m1 killer. His anti-loop when you are in dream world barely works when the pallet is not dropped. pre-dropping pallets makes his snares kinda rubbish. Other killer that have mobility to use gen regression do it better than he does. None of his add-on do anything particularly relevant to help him win. If someone told me freddy was worst killer in dbd, I would believe them. Freddy prophecy of being F-tier killer that excels at legit nothing ended up becoming true. I agree with popular opinion for once. he is F-tier. F-tier for Freddy tier.
In his previous form, I do not think he needed rework because he had redeaming qualities with unlimited wall hack, lower tr for 115% m/s and a massive action speed debuff but he had a lot of drawback in his ability for all these advantages. The drawback were really bad but the positives at least outweigh the negatives. Current freddy has negatives for using his power and barely any positives so I'd argue that current freddy is worse then original freddy. Freddy legit needs rework now but he is unlikely to get one because he already got one. Weaker player did not like facing forever freddy. He was to oppressive for weaker players /shrug.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I finally got around to watching the game. Yes, the survivors were efficient, but how are players eating these Dead Hards? I think one of them wasn't blatantly obvious. There was no reason to swing at every other DH when he did. Are players struggling that much when it comes to reading movement?
yes? to be fair, demo is user of stbfl so him eating that many dh is inherently good for building stbfl stacks but otz does not have stbfl so he is just tanking every DH. It is good match illustrate when some player say that DH does not impact matches. In many ways, DH is carried survivors to the win in this match. I would say survivor movement was worse then otz movement but gen speed is gen speed and no tunneling due to no way out is going to be worse then getting a player out of the match quickly.
@Predated said:
Buffing chase also buffed tunneling. The killers dont actually have a harder time defending gens than before, its just that the 10 second increase gives survivors all the more reasons to split gens in 1/1/1.
Before the generator time increase, the most common generator strategy was 2/1. Then 2/1 and then 3. With 80 seconds gen, this took about 300 seconds assuming survivors werent being tunneled. During a tunnel or a camp, this would be less.
Nowadays, because of the 10 second increase, its 1/1/1 because early game 2/1 isnt really viable anymore, and then 2/1. So while basekit gens are increased, the average time is now 240 seconds, assuming someone is being tunneled, otherwise its about 260.
Personally, I would revert gens back to 80 seconds, and add a 10% slowdown for each extra generator that is being worked on. This makes 2/1 more viable than 1/1/1(2/1 results in 2 gens being finished in 89 seconds, where 1/1/1 results in 3 gens being finished in 100 seconds), as the slowdown is less overall, and results into a time of about 380 seconds, assuming survivors are not being tunneled.
So please BHVR, revert the timer by 10 seconds and add a punishment for multiple gens being worked on. It's a lot more effective in the long run.
Not entirely. I think that is major reason why people complain about eruption. If you do 1/1/1 and each of your gen is 60%. A killer can go and kick all 3 of these gens and if you do not finish these 3 gens in time, the killer can proc eruption on 3 gens and do 30% collective regression and 25 seconds on incapacitated on each gen. that is pretty immense value for 1 perk.
2/1 generator is a lot safer. your less likely to get hit by regression perks and you have greater chance of completing gens. Judging from old statistics, Prove thyself has higher usage rate post 6.1.0 compare to pre 6.1.0. That should already tell you that 2:1 generator is far popular then 1:1:1 setup as prove thyself only works if you co-op gens. Longer gens definitely incentives stacking on gens to complete them over spreading out. the bad thing about 2:1 is if your teammates bring the killer towards the 2 man gen. the killer can get a lot of detach injure pressure so stacking on gens does have its risks in terms of finishing generators. Usually when your stacking on gens, your generally trying to finish high priority gens that are inherently easy for the killer to defend so there is certainly risk vs reward towards doing this play. In most cases, its proactive measure to avoid 3 gen-locks which can sometimes be unavoidable if the killer hard-camps gens from the start of the match with full gen-kick setup.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337800#Comment_3337800
Having a variety of skill levels for killer is good. Some killers are going to require more effort than others and the ones that require more effort should always be stronger. If that isn't the case then there is no reason to even touch the harder killers since it requires more effort to play while giving less/same reward. A perfect example of this was forever Freddy vs Demo. In what world would you play Demo when Freddy was stronger and easier to play.
he will still be commander type character that uses guards to assist in downing survivors. The difference is that his gameplay will be less one dimensional.
I don't see how you wouldn't look to get your hit and then use a long patrol to then finish the survivor. How would you hide vs a Knight when you are injured? It would be path of least resistance where you want to injure and then long range patrol to get the free down. There wouldn't be much more in terms of skill imo, just more power. The concept of the killer simply leaves little room for counterplay and the weakness for him comes from the fact that the time to down is bad. From how I see it you would just be entirely looking for a long range patrol downs and not the concept of trying to pinch the survivors with the assistance of the guards.
Sure that is excellent point. There is always going to be killer that are 1% better than another killer. there is also something called player bias where player will favour one advantage over another even if both advantages are similar in strength when used correctly. In regard forever freddy vs demo, forever freddy was a perceived top-tier perk synergy for killer that was not particular difficult to use but had high returns in effectiveness. A strategy that is strong can still exist in a killer but perhaps should not be top tier. Just strong enough you can do well with said killer vs equally competent opponents if your competent with the killer. In other words, killer should be the best they can be. do not try compare killer with another. Like I said, there is always going to be player bias in preferred killers.
With demo, I have mixed feeling about demo. I feel like everyone rates demo very highly as balanced killer but I also feel like he does not perform very well in my experience when playing vs him and playing as him. Its weird. I think community overrates and underrates him at the same time. The larger issue is that middle-tier killers in the game are in fact weak killers in the game because the bar is set so low for killers in the game. My opinion in regards rating of killer is that killers can have ratings that range from weaker to stronger but the amount between best and worst should be lower in my opinion. You do that by trying to make killers the best they can be. No killers will truly ever be equal to one another.
I don't see how you wouldn't look to get your hit and then use a long patrol to then finish the survivor. How would you hide vs a Knight when you are injured? It would be path of least resistance where you want to injure and then long range patrol to get the free down.
that is like whole spirit phase-walk argument all over again. How do you hide vs Spirit phase walk when your are injured? Your post seems to think that it is just game-over at that point. You attempt to make most distance as possible away from the knight as his orb approaches you and then you try mask your sound and footsteps to make it as difficult as possible for the killer player to track you so that placing guard is as difficult as possible. Your goal should be to predict orb pathing and avoid guard detection radius. Incoming the survivor mains that say that "Knight has no counter-play, if the killer has good headset, he can place perfectly on top of me and the guard always hits me, no counter-play, reeee".
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I think that hyperfocus is too hard to use perfectly for like 99% of survivor player-base. you have to truly outstanding to be permanently on hyperfocus 6 stack to get the true benefits of the perk. I can hit 4-5 skillchecks to get to hyperfocus 6 constantly but staying on it without missing skill-check is pretty hard. the skill-check dial moves really fast and great skill-check zone is pretty small in comparison. The stake out stacks allow you to stay at HF 6 stacks longer to get max reap burst benefits. that is not say that you cannot hit great skill-checks at HS6 but its pretty tough with such a fast dial speed. Your whole musicle memory for where dial is suppose to land really gets really mixed up. I imagine very few people can consistently stay at HF6 and stay on it consistently from start to finish on a gen.
@sizzlingmario4 said:
It just needs to not work with toolboxes and stakeout. Stakeout completely removes all the skill from Hyperfocus that actually makes it fair and shaves way too much time off of gens. Hyperfocus on its own is completely fine.
you would have to make perk way easier to use because current version is so difficult that you need to use it in a burst-like form to get good rewards out of it. that is why I have theory that if they make This is not happening really strong such that it lower skill-cap enough for HF to be sustainable as bonus, you might see HF used over Prove thyself and Resilience for gen-jockey type players.
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@Xernoton said:
I've played this game for 2 years now and I was never really fond of slowdown. My survivor matches felt awful going against it and as a killer I've always enjoyed the chase more than anything and brought aura perks or gimmicky builds instead. These past few days however my win rate dropped dramatically. In the last 10 games I got exactly 7 kills with an average game time of 6 minutes. Did the survivors just play well? Can't tell. I didn't really have any interaction with them.
The last game was a 4k that I managed to get because I decided to screw it all and instead of my usual builds bring CoB, Overcharge, Eruption and STBFL on Doctor and even that only worked out because I camped a 3 gen. The survivors didn't have fun and me neither because instead of chasing I had to prioritize gen kicking above all else just so I wouldn't lose against their preset loadout again. One green medkit with extra charges and Styptic Agent, 2 commodious toolboxes with extra charges and BNP and another yellow toolbox with extra charges, as well as Prove Thyself and a map offering for Ormond (at least it wasn't Garden of Pain). This isn't even special anymore. It's just the default mode now. I can't say I blame them though because you get so many of these.
Before anyone says: "Skill issue." Maybe it is a skill issue. I can't tell. I had very few interactions with these survivors, so I don't even know. Maybe they were absolutely insane but from the few chases I had it didn't look like that.
My question for you is: How has your experience over the last few days been? Did it feel more balanced? Were your matches as short as mine?
Another killer that hit high mmr where survivor were super efficient at objective and its really hard to win. A vast majority of my games are very fast as killer. I share same experience as yours. when you reach the top play as killer, that experience is normal. it is why killer run generator defence because the games are just too quick. they have always been too quick. Weaker killer just do not have much kill pressure on the game. its been ongoing problem for many years as killer.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337766#Comment_3337766
He is working how he was designed. If a killer is suppose to be low/mid tier then they shouldn't have a high skill ceiling. High skill ceiling killers should always be the top tier ones. If they made his snipes always give a hit then you would just get your injure and then snipe with guard since you can easily track a survivor that is injured. That change would then require a rework to his power since without it he would be an A tier killer that is easy and also having little to no counterplay. He would now be a spirit-like killer and not more of a commander where you order you guards to help assist you in downing survivors.
killer is should not aim to be low/mid tier. they should aim to be high tier always. how easy the killer is varies for how well survivor plays vs the ability. I do not believe the game to be that black and white when you say the ability has little to no counter-play. there should be grey zone. Bare in mind that survivor do not necessarily need to have 100% perfect odds in avoiding the killer power hits to neccassary escape the killer. he will still be commander type character that uses guards to assist in downing survivors. The difference is that his gameplay will be less one dimensional. He will have more instances and opportunities to get the survivor to make a mistake for his guard to get a hit.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337723#Comment_3337723
I do not agree. I think knight is practical joke to escape against
He is a high C low B tier killer. You can run full slowdown since chase perks do nothing for him. Honestly feels no different in power to Dredge and Doctor. I don't see any problem with a low skill-ceiling killer when they are already high C/ low B.
killer's should aim to be as high skill-ceiling as possible. I do not think that many killer will ever be mechanically difficult to play but I think knight in particular can be medium-skill cieling character that is similar to spirit where his skill-cieling is about tracking survivors movement with orb to place guards that win chases for him. Survivor should be all about avoiding guard chases and mind-gaming his guard placements. The knight in particular is a complicated character to balance because its based off AI and 2vs1 gameplay. balancing 2vs1 gameplay and ensure the AI is not too effective but not too ineffective is challenging with such a killer design.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337744#Comment_3337744
I main wesker. I have to disagree with you on many accounts. Lots of loops (shack being best example) are actually mainly about you as a killer and survivor can make it only harder (with shack being on reaction so if you happen to be precise, survivor has no counterplay). But sure some loops you are basic M1 killer (I probably paradoxically struggle the most on shelter woods).
I do win most (not all) of my games - I guess my kill rate is somewhere around 70%. My build is corrupt, darkness revealed, overcharge and pain res + uroboros tendrils (brown movement between bounds addon) and lion medalion (yellow throw distance addon - partial counter to open field maps like every corn map + reward if you can throw someone at map corner). I don't camp (endgame does not count and I don't go out of my way to not camp if patrolling gens) and I don't tunnel (meaning I try to prefer unhooker - but if I can't find unhooker or unhooked bodyblocks or I happen to later (not next to hook, already healthy) find unhooked person or he starts doing gens, then he's fair game for me) - meaning infection rarely helps me in chase even if it's huge help as slowdown. Under all these conditions, I am pretty sure my kill rate is still around 70%. Maybe a little more.
The killer is very well designed. If only they fixed tunnel-after-unhook infection mechanics + some funky bugs here and there, I would consider him perfect.
I play wesker a lot as well. I am just saying that there are weaknesses that survivor can utilize against his power and there is very little that he can do against it at base-kit. if you just pre-dropping pallet vs him, the pallet loops are shaped in such a way that you can nearly perfect line of sight him constantly. At least that is how I play against Wesker when I am survivor. I do not let him hit me with his ability. I just use line of sight against him and he has no windows of opportunity, pardon the pun on the perk.
I play him as well, but every time I hit a survivor with his ability, I can easily spot a routing play in survivor's gameplay that they could have utilized against me to make the hit harder or avoid hit entirely. He is a killer that relies on survivor to make poor positional plays for him to capitalize on. I do not think he is bad but its up to survivor to make mistakes for me to hit them at base-kit.
Edit: I am not saying the killer is bad. I just think he could be better and less focused on infection against efficient gen teams.
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@Gandor said:
Isn't that good?
Having killer that can be countered, but does incredibly good when played well? Shouldn't all killers be like that?
nope. If my opponent pre-drop pallets, I cannot outplay survivor because I cannot get an angle to land his ability. If I vault a pallet, I am kicked out of his virulent bound and turned into an m1 killer where the survivor can loop the pallet indefinitely because pallet is safe when dropped.
The only way to currently use his ability to use his ability between loops but survivor has counter-play there as well where they hide behind obstacles where I do not have an angle to hit them. If I miss, then I am put into a cooldown where survivor is able to route to another pallet.
TL:DR I rely on my opponent to make positional errors in order to be able to have an opportunity to hit my opponent. One dimensional gameplay. Its up to survivor to mess up. Luckily, most survivor are not remarkable in their positioning and movement such that you can capitalize off their mistakes. so bad killer right?
That is until you look at his infection mechanic and add-on associated with it. Video conference device and red herb are add-on that increase infection meter rate and how much charge you build when you hit a survivor. these two add-on allow him to tunnel survivors off hook because base-kit BT. On first hit, you will get 30 charges of his infection with red herb. When you down survivor and hook them, they will drop down to 50% infection. If you camp and tunnel survivor off hook by hitting base-kit BT, the 50% infection will rise to 80%(+30 charges) and within 20 seconds, the video conference device add-on will make survivor fully infected applying negative debuff of 8% hindered. Now you cannot loop him and the chase is killer sided.
so base-kit, worthless. Abuse infection mechanic with add-on's with a tunnel playstyle and now he is tunnel 1vs1 machine. Base-kit, his chase is survivor sided. tunnel-wise and infection wise, his chase is killer-sided. The infection is meant to be side objective, like gen-defence type mechanic and his power should be viable to get hits without requiring the survivor to be fully infected. The irony is that once you are fully infected, you do not need his power to begin with due to permanent 8% hindered bonus. Just m1 wesker wins at that point.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337008#Comment_3337008
How does he not get value for long range patrols if those snipes results in hits? Like if you are on one side of the map and I snipe you I can then use the guards' aura to see your pathing and use the guard to help corral you. The only thing here is that the time to down is bad. I don't find that to be an issue since there really isn't counterplay vs him.
How does a survivor play better if I run Thrilling Tremors and hit them with a max range patrol? The counterplay there is to pre-leave gens when you hear the TR right? I don't find that to be a healthy addition to his kit. On the survivor side this killer is already miserable to play against and making longer patrols result in hits with the Knight not having to be there feels like expose Nurse. You either play stealthy or you get punished.
How does a survivor play better if I run Thrilling Tremors and hit them with a max range patrol? The counterplay there is to pre-leave gens when you hear the TR right?
Previous to 6.5.0, you could see green orb. the survivors counter-play toward guard chases is suppose to be running out of the detection circle and grabbing the banner. in that situation, by making orb invisible, the significance of that change that they did in 6.5.0 is that avoiding guard chases when your out of chase is harder. The knight could already land long distance guards chase prior to 6.5.0. The problem is that survivor have no reason to avoid said guard chases because hold-W counters the guard and the knight as whole.
On the survivor side this killer is already miserable to play against and making longer patrols result in hits with the Knight not having to be there feels like expose Nurse. You either play stealthy or you get punished.
I do not agree. I think knight is practical joke to escape against and there is no skill-ceiling to play him well nor is there skill-ceiling for knight play better. he gets auto-pilot losses vs gen efficient+shift-w teams and stomps weaker survivor plays that have weak routing in chase and poor gen efficiency. He could have more of skill-ceiling to play as him and playing vs him but the knight is currently is not there.
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@SpaghettiYOLO said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3335365#Comment_3335365
45 seconds would be way better. So would no cooldown if it's never procced. Same goes for ANY perk that has to be procced. Blast Mine not set off? Then you get it right back like you used to.
you could give this perk 0 cooldown and activation window of 30 second for every gen kicked and I am not sure if the perk would get used because strong gen regression perk is so over-prioritized in the killer meta that nobody is consider any other type of killer perk currently. I think only other perks you see are nowhere to hide/bbq(info perks) and stbfl/bamboozle(chase perks). Other than that, The meta is pretty cemented into 2-3 gen defence perks. The 3 perks that I see most are Pain res, Eruption, Cob. The lesser ones you see are Jolt, deadlock and OC. Assuming they weaken top 3, you can already see next 3 to take their place.
killer have no perks slots to waste on meme perks like dragon grip.
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@Blueberry said:
Map is way too large and has too many pallets as well. Most the loops are extremely safe and forced pallet breaks. Needs changes.
Also really hate how open it is so you can see the killer a mile away, encourages hold w game play which is boring for everyone and dreadful on stealth killers.
The map is just bloodlodge 2.0. all my games on shattered square are like most nail-biting killer games ever. very stressful map to play on.
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@yauniqua said:
The full name of the yellow add on is blocked by the forum word censor.
its not explained in the game, but Jelly is 5 second increase. 20% extra slowdown is not 20% additional time on the map.
Its 20% slower charge depletion. Basically every 1 second = 1 second of the map. The map has 20 charges, so it takes 20 seconds to burn out a map. If you use Jelly, it becomes 1 charge every 0.8 seconds. 20/(1-0.2) = 5 seconds. Jelly and map piece give equivalent amount of time when used individually. If used together(put duration add-on first then put Jelly). it will give you 31.25 seconds of total map use.
Jelly is only useful if your trying stack both duration and depletion rate, otherwise there is no difference. There is no reason to use them together though. You would only use them toghether in a green map if you use detective hutch as perk. Odd stamp, Unusual stamp and Red Twine are main add-on to use when using a map.
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@dspaceman20 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337046#Comment_3337046
But in my opinion them playing safe is what's holding them back. This is also in part due to the fact that they are really slow at making changes. If something is overpowered they should change it quickly
I think reason why they play it safe is because they do not want said perks to ever get used. The perks are like museum. You can look at the perk and go like: " Oh wow, that perk look so cool, Shame trigger condition, numbers, token system make the perk terrible".
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they based his balance around instant-kill mori's. I do not see them balancing him for any other type of gameplay other than instant-kill moris. His tombstone piece and Judith tombstone add-on does give him a redeeming quality that only 3 other killer have access to. His version of Mori is arguably most consistent and most powerful of the mori killers. I think they like his gameplay being based around these two add-on and do not see a reason to change these add-on or his base-kit default play style as a whole. You never need to play his base-kit if you can just use these two add-on and replace his base-kit with these two add-on's.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336867#Comment_3336867
I see Knight as just Doc v2. I see the low skill expression for the killer being fine since it is paired with low power. Like you said if the killer plays it correctly he will get the downs but it's not time efficient. They really can't change that unless they make him broken(uncounterable and quick) or do some kind of rework. Seems like the latter is something you wish they would do(snipe with guards that is rewarded in hits).
I personally didn't play him until the buff because pooping a guard at every loop is just Artist v2. I've found that he is serviceable with going for more long range snipes and then trying to cut the survivor off. The buff at least helps this playstyle be actually viable. At the end of the day the killer has low skill expression so I'm fine with him being on the lower end the the roster.
you did not miss much. your method of cutting survivors off and corralling survivors in the corner of the map is same as before buff as after the buff. This is what I mean by nothing changed in his update. he plays the same and does same thing. sniping with guards would increase his versatility in using his power. He would still have 2vs1 stuff going on but he would also have that extra layer anti hold-w layer dimension to his skill-cap when using his power that stronger killers have access to. I think he was servicable in going for long range patrols before change but he gets no reward for those patrols. survivor do not need to play around it because it is counter-play kinda braindead easy? Its just shift-w and run forward away from the guards. He becomes time inefficient in chases and he has no real skill expression to shorten those chases from shift-w because its entirely based around how survivor plays and not how well he places/uses guards vs shift-w play. Those guards statistically cannot hit the survivor if the survivor plays it correctly. I think your point is that you believe that if he can counter shift-w(snipe with guards), he will be oppressive but I think it just means that survivor needs to play better against long range patrols that does not involve just tanking guards chases and doing easy shift-w play. In other words, I do not think he will be oppressive. I think survivor will need to play better to escape him.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336838#Comment_3336838
You can but the assassin can get a hit while helping you cut off. That can help cut down the time you take to down a survivor. If you don't need to even be there then all you need to to defend the banner and someone can be getting hit on the assassin. That's why I think it would be obnoxious if that was the case.
Knight is much like Doc where you are just going to be getting hit but the down times are why they are not A tier. I feel the area of denial and zoning is the skill that is for Knight. Letting the Knight hit you and not the guard is still value the guard gave. I find shift w to be something the Knight can help avoid being such a strong strat. If I have a guard on you I'm just looking to zone you into a corner and get my hit.
sure but that is not efficient time to down. If a guard hits you, then you misplayed vs his ability and he deserved the hit.
I feel the area of denial and zoning is the skill that is for Knight.
this is certainly his skill-cap in how you use guard to get the m1 hit on the survivor, but I would say its currently too easy. I spotted this strength on day 2 in PTB when people thought he was bad. If I play my power perfectly with the guard, the survivor has no chance to avoid not getting hit. Because the time to down is so slow, you can get hit by the knight and feed many hooks to him but he has no chance to win multiple chases before all 5 gen pop because his power does not shorten chases. it confirms hits/downs in already favourable positions for the killer.
If I have a guard on you I'm just looking to zone you into a corner and get my hit.
That is what I do only with the knight. There is no reward in using his new buffs because his new buffs do nothing. Placebo low impact changes. You still only get rewarded as knight for zoning in survivors away from loops which is most effective when done in the corner of the map because the corner of the map does not allow survivors to detach to other loops. The power lacks versatility. the power is one dimensional. Knight power needs more versatility and less strength in the favourably killer positions.
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@scenicpickle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336732#Comment_3336732
cheating aside a good survivor with this can be devastating especially with a team of good survivors doing gens
imagine a skill check on a gen that was really hard to hit but if you did would give you 50% gen progress sounds op right? well that's deadhard expect it's "fair and balanced" now run stake out for guaranteed 50% skill check that's running into zombies and guards with DH
sounds like brand new parts except it is 25% instead of 50%.
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363523/my-problem-with-deadhard
Make it only work on basic attacks.
yes m1 killers more then stronger killers. sounds good. maybe it makes more sense reverse way. ignores basic attacks and only works on special attacks.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336781#Comment_3336781
The reason to get a guard on them is so you can cut them off and get a free hit. If they can just run a straight line then they will put themselves in a corner of the map or you shouldn't be using a guard there in the first place. The assassin make this very deadly since you are there for a hit and the assassin can also hit them making the chase very short.
I can't see how the assassin getting a free hit if I do a long patrol wouldn't be obnoxious. They they changed it to reward you with only needing to zone the banner I see that as a miserable experience for survivor.
I don't feel like Knight has the same problem as pinhead. I would go back to being able to cut players off and how it is also easy to do since your guard is basically wall hacks since they follow the survivors path. Would be curious to hear your opinion on this though.
you can cut people off with all 3 guards. there is no reason to run dried meat in fact because the survivor can purposely completely avoid the guard and choose to only get hit by the killer. the only add-on you need to cut people off.. well i shouldn't say need. I should say, improves your chance for guard chase to activate is map of the realm.
they will put themselves in a corner of the map or you shouldn't be using a guard there in the first place.
that is skill-cap for survivor. its avoiding corners of the map and wasting the knight's time. it is super easy to go on long chase with knight because you can avoid going in the corner of the map in many situations to prologue early chases and if the knight zones you to in the corner of the map. you can force knight to hit you and avoid the guard entirely. If you are injured and have dead hard equipped, you can do this total 2 times because you can let guard purposely hit you during Dead hard giving 3 health-states. that is why knight is weak. It is easy to extend chases and shift-w counters him. His chase time too long and he has no counters to shift-w. If his guard could hit survivors on their own, he would have counter to shift-w therefore be a stronger killer that can shorten chases with his ability if he uses ability correctly and survivor misplays vs the ability.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336225#Comment_3336225
1, it's not useless. Killer slows survivor this way. Once killer is able to actually revert the progression, the game is in problem - survivors can't win that game no matter how long it will take, how good they loop or anything else (because killer can always reset all survivor's effort). This would be the same as survivors being able to "heal" hook states quicker then killer is able to hook survivors (in such a case killer would be just unable to win no matter what he would do, but using alternative ways to win = bleeding out survivors. But survivors don't have full-team alternative - hatch works only for last survivor).
2, but I like your suggestion about buffing long distance guards. I would probably make them even 10% quicker, but drawing makes sound and survivors need to run away in time. If killer wins the mindgame (guesses correctly the survivor position - killer should have tangible chance to get it right, but survs should be able to also dodge it if they read the killer's intention correctly), guards should catch them on their own (or have high chance of doing so). On the other hand, make instadrop guard tactics harder by making killer slower. I think this would create much more interesting killer. Something like "long-range-only" huntress that can "shoot" behind obstacles.
I think this would create much more interesting killer. Something like "long-range-only" huntress that can "shoot" behind obstacles.
Long range spirit. not long range huntress. Long range spirit with guard chases.
drawing makes sound and survivors need to run away in time
There was no sound, but they used to show you green orb precise location because survivor complained that spirit is invisible so she has no CoUNTer PlAY. Untrue in my opinion but whatever I guess. The orb is invisible past 10 meters following 6.5.0 changes.
I would probably make them even 10% quicker
Sure that is just numbers. i gave 1-5% as example. perhaps 1-10% is better.
On the other hand, make instadrop guard tactics harder by making killer slower. I think this would create much more interesting killer.
I tend to see max potencial in a killer regardless of what version of killer you present. he could be an interesting killer to escape from. Looping a 2vs1 killer could be very interesting. I agree with your post. @Steakdabait disagrees and he/she thinks that knight is 2nd worst designed killer. You can't win them all I guess. there is always going be some that dislike playing vs x killer.
Once killer is able to actually revert the progression, the game is in problem
I do not agree. I think generator defence type perks balance the game out for killer. The game is balanced around them currently. I forgot who wrote the 6.1.0 post but I think in dev post, they said something along lines of generator defence perks should be optional. not complete mandatory. something like that. with how killer power-levels are, they are currently mandatory which is why everyone run them.
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@Trollinmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336682#Comment_3336682
So I think with the brown add-on it makes hitting long patrols not that difficult. It's a 50% increase for the detection range for the Assassin/Carnifex(8m base). I would agree more if there wasn't that add-on since I've had it where I felt I landed a really good guard and it didn't go into chase when I wasn't running it.
To me the killer feels way different when running those add-ons vs not. I really don't have anything to complain about when I'm running those two and can't see how the devs could improve the killer without pushing him over the edge. Like if they made max patrol better for the guards then couldn't you do double assassin and the detection range? Seems like that would be the go-to and be super obnoxious.
Suppose I break a pallet as knight and my power is ready. The survivor will be travelling to next pallet/loop location. If I am using my power to draw long paths, then I am effectively trying to use my guard to punish hold-w. With how it currently works, the survivor has no reason to care for my guard chase because they can just keep holding forward and the guard will never hit them by running forward. I am losing distance because I am drawing a patrol path standing still and survivor is gaining distance on me because I am standing still.
The result is that I never zero incentive to use long patrol paths because my guards are terrible at countering hold-w and the survivor has no incentives to avoid guard chases. Just tank every single guard chase and hold-w. You won't get punished. I won't get rewarded for successfully activating my ability. The gameplay for these long drawing path patrols is suppose to play like spirit. Survivor is suppose to walk and mask their footsteps to make it difficult to track. Survivor do not bother because knight's successful or failure is irrelevant. they win guard chase by ignoring ability altogether. To answer your question regarding whether double assassin+map of the realm is obnoxious. I do not see as obnoxious. It is using optimal add-on to counter shift-w which is one of biggest problems for killer in my opinion. a leading reason to why most killer are weak including knight.
To side track a little bit, This is like same problem that pinhead with his ability. there is no incentive to dodge long range chains because you will still get to next loop and he has no incentive to hit his chains because even when he hits his chains, the chain break so quickly that almost no distance is lost. Same issue. The killer gameplay is insignificant toward outcome. Only survivor play matters. This is another example of another killer having a possible anti-shift w mechanic that is ineffective with current variables.
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@Trollinmon said:
For me the issue with knight add-ons is that Dried Horsemeat and Map of the Realm feel mandatory for him. I don't think they can even change that since the reason it feels that way is because the assassin can get you hits with that combo.
I mean if a patrol line is drawn at max distance. the time it takes for guard to enter chase is 1.5 second when the 25% buff is applied. 1 meter = 4 meter of running distance, so 1.5 meters is 6 meters of distance. Assassin moves at 4.4, he gains 0.4 meters every second for 16 seconds. across his entire running distance, he would travel 6.5 meters. In short, assassin would just hit or just miss if your running forward. Without add-on, the assassin will travel 4.8 meter of distance.
I do not think the survivor should have counter-play toward guard if the guard successfully starts chase with survivor at max patrol distances. I think at max distances, the survivor should either a) look to avoid guard or b) utilize banner to disable guard chase. hold-w shouldn't work. the guard should hit survivor if the knight uses land his power perfectly on the survivor.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336185#Comment_3336185
-"i just couldn't not figure out the fine line between the killer being toxic, or doing it because it's strategic."
Consider for a moment what I get if I hook three different survivors one time vs if I hook one player three times. I get nothing for three individual hooks. Survivors asking killers not to tunnel one player with three hooks in a row is like killers asking for survivors to get all 7 generators to 33% before they get a single generator to 66% - which would be completely ridiculous.
-"i never thought about how annoying gen rushing could be. at the end of the day, we are both getting our objectives done."
The killer's objective is to defend the generators. If you defend a "three gen" (I assume you know what that is) it's a huge boon to the killer.
Breaking the killer's three gen is roughly equal to removing one survivor from the game. The difference with Nurse and Blight is that because they can move around so well AND chase so effectively they can more or less turn the game around regardless of how far apart the generators are from one another. An extreme example is Nurse on Midwich as she can go up/down instantly. Some killers literally might have to move ~20+ seconds to go from the bottom to the top. And imagine if they had to break a pallet and then pick up a survivor and carry them to a hook. That could be 45 seconds of downtime which is insane.
I think its more that nurse and blight can win the game by kill-rushing. i.e killing faster then their opponent can rush generators. the other killers kill slower then their opponent can finish generators. the result is that for other killer to compete, they must make the game slower to compete. Trapper for example is ineffective at kill-rushing his opponent. Most of the killer suck at kill-rushing their opponent(getting hook-states quickly) because bvhr likes to make killer powers very weak/very one dimensional to limit killer's potencial to express skill with said ability. As a result, the killer has to cheat by tunneling and cheat by 3 gening to make up deficits if their opponent is as good as they are at killer due to bvhr's poor balance on powers and whole looping/map chase balance.
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I do not mind the perk purely because 99% of the players that use DH are not good at using DH. DH is only strong for the 1% of survivor that use it correctly and tank hits reliably every single match. It is way harder to win as killer if you get 4 survivors using the perk correctly but luckily that is not too common in my experience. Killer are mostly complaining about DH as defence to survivor's complaining about Eruption.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3336276#Comment_3336276
So if a Plague with 110s of infection goes around and spews on a good chunk of the map, you're claiming Survivors are going to refuse to ever complete gens for fear of infection and avoid ever getting M1'd? Unlikely. It's a combo that works, and is a playstyle that depends on them... you know, wanting to win.
I just think add-on is unnecessary for her. infecting survivor is generally not that hard in my opinion.
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glad you made a post about it. I agree it is bad perk. the way perk is designed is that it needs 4 potencial energies to be relevant and it completely sucks otherwise. it is not practical to use in soloq.