doobiedo
doobiedo
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/438838/regarding-go-next-prevention
I understand your concern, but the developers aren’t going to pour all their time into changes that weren’t well thought through. They made a VP sit on camera, so I assume they are taking this very, very seriously. A lot of the feedback I have seen addressed so far reminds me of all the YouTube videos I have been watching from all the creators. The community managers definitely know who MintSkull, Hens333, Scott Jund, etc. are, and I trust that BHVR copying their notes means they copied the thought process shared by the creators, too.
There’s a big difference to me between someone attempting to self-unhook in the first 30 seconds of the match, and someone attempting to self-unhook to give someone hatch. I think the developers will first focus on the poopy heads that throw the game the SECOND they see a killer they dislike. There will most likely be a timer-based feature, and survivors that chase after the killer will likely be penalized. The only problem, as best shared by Hens in his video today, was the cheaters that hook everyone immediately. I had this happen twice IRL, but I do not remember if I was penalized or not. I’m not sure what they will do about pointing at a hook, but I have trust in the process.
What are you talking about? Bhvr. Is definitely going to go through with not well thought out changes, it's literally all they ever do. They are one of the worst companies that has ever existed since the dawn of time, accidentally stumbled on a game that can be kind of fun and now spend all their time tirelessly trying to destroy it. Now we get this blueprint where instead of fixing the game they are just going to make it even worse for survivors and completely destroy the game. Bhvr. should sell the game to a competent developer instead.
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Bhvr., after ruining their game for survivors so much that they need to offer 400% blood point bonus just to get them to play the game, decides to announce an "operation health" where the entire first phase is killer sided changes. Good job Bhvr.
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Nah I probably still will at least just to mess around.
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Good, Survivors deserve to have SOME counterplay.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879544#Comment_3879544
i would add 11th reason that pushed it's way through with Hex meta. And that's:
"if it glows it goes" mentality heavily pushed by content creators.
People are quite often making humongous mistakes by deciding to cleanse hex totems they find along the way while not even being aware of what perks are in play, just to end up cleansing Undying and giving killer their first and very strong Pentimento token, or simply wasting their own time they could spend working on a gen.
And risk devour? No. If it glows it goes is always the right decision unless you know for a fact exactly what the totems are which is rare. The fact that survivors are basically screwed at this point no matter what they do when it comes to totems is just another example of the game being killer sided.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858974#Comment_3858974
when escape rates were higher […] survivor queue times were ridiculously long
Source? I don't know who invented that claim and why it remains so popular, but survivor queues were not particularly longer in 2021, and killrate was 50% back then.
This is something you can easily verify yourself, search for "2021 dbd VODs" on Youtube, then pick random ones. The vast majority of queues seem to take less than 15s, arguably faster than today.
So this oft repeated tale i'v heard that the game used to be so survivor sided that most killers stopped playing is not true?
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Have you tried using the -dx11 launch option?That helped me with some issues i was having after the switch to the new engine.
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@WalterBlack said:
It feels like on this forums players tend to see slugging as a form of "It's always the Killer's fault" and "It's never acceptable", in a similar tenor to how tunneling & camping is viewed. Judging by the inclusion of survey questions and BHVR's track record on these types of complaints - the "solution" might be treated in a similar way. Good luck to Oni and Twins mains, because if you're slugging, you're just bad at the game and a bad person! /s
Don't get me wrong, by the way - structural, unnecessary slugging should be addressed - just not in the abysmally survivor-friendly way some people on here seem to always advocate for.
Oh no, the killers innate advantage might be slightly decreased? We can't let that happen! Lets stop slugging by punishing survivors somehow!
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859572#Comment_3859572
I never said it shouldn't? Why do you keep trying to dress my arguments up as something they're not?
The 60/40 split does not mean you will lose exactly 60% of your matches. That was my point from the start, and if you refuse to take the advice and keep doomposting, have fun being miserable I guess.
Honestly I don't even understand how you pulled that from the comment you quoted. It was quite literally about a character who is extremely casual due to their weak matchups. Part of what made the upset so wild is that he was using the 17th ranked character in the game (out of 19.)
No one ever said that every players only escapes 40% of their games. The point is solo survivor is in a bad and unfair state, the kill/ escape rate is only one indication of that, not the be and end all. I guess i dont really understand the relevence of your sf reference at all but thats probably because I dont play that game and know nothing about it.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859597#Comment_3859597
Oh wonderful, we're back to ye olde 'it's not the quitters fault for quitting and ruining games, it's the GAME's fault' silliness.
If someone quits because they cannot freely poop on the match for 4 others, the game is better off without them. That's like saying banning hackers will make them quit.
Good.
There is a reason that most games penalize leavers harshly. All suiciding is, is DCing with no penalty.
People whined about 'OMG the game isn't balanced I shouldn't be punished for DCing' when the DC penalty came back too.
Again - the amount of suicides I see don't even slightly correspond to what killer I'm playing. It's purely a certain kind of person that will not play the match out unless they will escape.
Do you honestly think dbd is just like any other game and that the ability to go next on hook isnt being kept in the game by Bhvr. for a very specific reason? If you really think that and that "punishing" players for trying to go next would actually help the game in any way then it just shows how deluded you are about the state of the game in general and that its pointless for me to be discussing it with you. Saying "yes all survivors who have ever left a game should quit and the game will be better off" is almost like saying the game would be better off with no survivor players at all.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859606#Comment_3859606
matchmaking improvements would be the best buff to solo queue.
other than the anti-camp bar and nerfing some killer perks that only exist to crush solo players (knock out), survivors have enough basekit info available.
Why should we just accept that comms will always have an advantage and do nothing to try to bridge the gap? Even if they have "enough" info more info would make them closer to swf. Even if we can never completely change the disparity we should get as close as we can. Also what makes you think Bhvr. will ever fix matchmaking lol?
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@RpTheHotrod said:
I feel It really comes down to the quality of the survivors in question.
Like these here are all solo queue situations for me
https://youtu.be/rCWNuSN42AY?si=TFc_q1cq95zL1Bap
https://youtu.be/SmXWT7gN3qw?si=gNAgXixc8BrgSW8A
And getting a 4 man out with a face camping nurse
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/s/iiPateoWPS
You may say something along the lines that, "well, the survivors i get teamed up with in solo queue doesn't work like a team like that." but once again, that's comes down to the quality of the survivors. You cant balance around people's willingness or lack of willingness to work together. While comms for everyone would be helpful, sure, if you have survivors playing to help each other like they should be, you're fine in in solo queue. The problem is less solo queue and more players deciding to actively not work together. That's hard to fix.
I sometimes get in games where everyone in solo que plays well too. That doesnt change the fact if those same players had comms they would be even better though. I do believe Bhvr. fixing matchmaking could go a long way but either way the game is still unbalanced in favor of swf. (Also what are the chances of Bhvr. ever fixing matchmaking at this point?)
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859582#Comment_3859582
swfs don't escape much more than solo queue. solo queue players don't need more information outside of showing the anti-camp bar to the rest of the team. I don't need to be told my teammate with WoO is wasting the 3 somewhat useful pallets on <insert empty 2024 map>. Reverse the direction of map design so survivors actually have some agency in chases. you're overstating the strength of swfs to avoid that by every available metric, killers are overly advantaged.
If the game is balanced differently with better maps then you could be right, but the way the balance in the game has been going right now solo que does need to be buffed. And whatever you want to say about swf not always escaping even a 10% difference in escape rate is massive.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859589#Comment_3859589
That would be fine, and worth a suggestion. Good luck I guess.
As to the rest of it - yup. This is what I'm talking about. You're inferring a negative intent about half the playerbase because…uh…you don't like them I guess? Most 'killer mains' want a balanced game. Easy games get really boring really fast.
At the highest levels of play DbD is fairly balanced. The kill rate stats are misleading because it's easy to secure one kill and DbD is snowbally, plus there are a crapzillion AFKing or suiciding survivors.
If you want to see just how hard it can be for killers against good groups, go watch Hardcore Survivor or some recent tournaments.
Are there things that could be done to help solos? Sure.
Know what the biggest is? Stopping hook suicides. I promise you, do that and you'll see kill rates decline. And before you start up again, I can be the nicest, most chill and sportsmanlike killer you can imagine and I still see a hook suicide in at least a third of my games, which is an auto loss for the survivors. The problem isn't (name a thing), the problem is that people have a penalty free way of shopping for easy games.
I have people suiciding on first hook, at 3 gens, against Demo.
Demo.
This isn't a 'killer OP' thing, this is a design flaw.
Stopping hook suicides will do the opposite. It will just make survivors stop playing or purposely throw the game. In my games most of the time when someone goes next on hook it is a game where there was literally no chance to win anyway, it is often easy to tell. There is no chance that stopping hook suicides will do anything about kill rates if anything it would potentially lead to a massive exodus of the games player base.
( now if you are talking about removing this AFTER the game is balanced better, that could be a different story.)
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859578#Comment_3859578
I play almost exclusively solo queue as survivor (i don't have any friends who play dbd, so not much choice). While i mostly play killer, I don't really have issues in solo queue. What's the general issue? I feel it's the lack of communication with the other players, but generally, I feel that as long as you can hold your own and work to help the team, it isn't much of an issue. I go take protection hits, unhook, and so on. Heck, if I have a hook state to spare and someone is on death hook being chased, I'll go down intentionally just to get the death hook survivor time to get to safety. Sometimes I feel it's more like solo queue survivors just expect to go at it alone without interacting with the other survivors then everything falls apart because you essentially have two survivor teams working against each other.
The general issue is that survivors on comms have an advanatge and more and more the game is being balanced to assume that advantage exists. Therefore it gets tiring to play solo que and lose over and over again, especially if the killer uses something like "hex-third seal" which is basically only even useful against solo's. It is tiring to lose games again that you know you would have won if you had comms and it directly leads to dc's and hook suicides.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859578#Comment_3859578
Yeah see - it's that 'oh well' that stops this sort of discussion from being germane. Because it demonstrates that you don't really care.
'Just buff killers' doesn't work. We've done this dance before. It's not that simple.
I'm all for helping solos. But it cannot be done in a way that breaks the killer versus SWF balance. Survivors have a choice whether or not to group up. Killers do not have a choice whether or not to face SWFs.
If you're so worried about the kinded thing make it so this version of kindred only shows the survivors and not the killer or something. There is definitely a way to make solo survivor closer to swf but the problem is killer mains on these forums melt down because "survivor buffs!!" They want their easy wins against uncoordinated solo squads. If those like you and others on these forums refuse to even let there be a discussion about buffing solo survivor then just get used to more dc's and survivors going next on hook, it is the inevitable comsequence.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859567#Comment_3859567
Are you bonkers?
Kindred is incredibly common in SWFs. Very strong perk due to killer aura reading.
BHVR are not going to balance SWF and solos differently. They've said this repeatedly.
Killer doesn't actually win more. Regardless of your sarcasm, it's a logical fact. That stat is, out of context, misleading.
Solos don't need buffs. What solos do need is an easier way to find groups.
Why do you keep saying "balance swf and solos differently" when thats not what I suggested. Are you confused? Well you must be to say that killers dont win more which is an objective fact. Solo's very much do need buffs because it is impossible to nerf swf. If swf also gets a small advantage from one of these buffs oh well, if swf and solo are in a closer place at the end then that is still better than before. Like I said, if you're so worried about too many buffs I said killer can then be buffed to compensate after we get swf and solo as close as possible.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859453#Comment_3859453
When you play a fighting game competitively, you generally focus on mains. People tend to have "pocket" characters to deal with bad matchups, but it is not uncommon for even grand finals matches to have a 6/4 or worse matchup. The winner of the most recent SF3 Evo used a low tier character and stomped in matches that were heavily against him statistically. This also happens in many other games where people win finals with off-meta or straight up terrible matchups.
The point is that seeing a 60/40 doesn't mean you already lost, or that you will lose 60% of your matches. It means that statistically you are at a relative disadvantage, but it gets blown out of proportion constantly in this community that anything less than 50/50 = "there is no chance might as well go next" defeatist mentality. Which of course also dooms the other survivors who do continue to try, and ironically often alters their chances to be a lot lower than 40%
We're not trying to balance the game for the top .0001% that literally wins a tournament, we're trying to balance it for the player base overall ( or at least we should be.)
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859027#Comment_3859027
The game is actually relatively balanced when it's SWF versus killer. The game cannot be balanced around solo queue.
60% kill rate does not mean a 60% win rate. Others have explained it better, but don't get too caught up on that number. Most of the time, even losing games, a killer can secure 1 kill and 3 kills on a winning game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859023#Comment_3859023
See above. You're hyperfocusing on one number that doesn't mean quite what you think it does.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858837#Comment_3858837
Didn't you say in another thread that you actually want BHVR to be survivor favored?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858917#Comment_3858917
And yet outside of 2v8, my killer queues are nearly instant and most of the time have a 25%-50% bonus. Clearly there is no shortage of survivors.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858997#Comment_3858997
Define 'win' as it pertains to killer. Show your work.
(Yes, I'm making a point here. BHVR have never defined what a 'win' constitutes for a killer player).
Also - this game has 3 'sides'.
Think of it like this. You can have solo versus killer, SWF versus killer or a mix of solo and SWF versus killer. Game is fairly balanced as SWF versus killer. You cannot buff solo willy nilly without completely breaking said balance.
BHVR have been adding in a ton of things to help solos, and I can't really think of much more they can do short of preventing suicides. Even showing equipped perks in lobby could go sideways with increased lobby dodges (which borks matchmaking).
I told you what could be done but apparently you ignored it unless its in a different post that I didnt see. Make all info perks like kindred, bond and even Woo basekit. Those perks are not going to help players on comms much anyway. Also get rid of perks that are stricly solo que stompers like third seal. Add some sort of conversation system (not voice chat because that causes other problems). Essentially buff solo que massively until they are as close as possible to making the comms advantage of swfs irrelevant. Then if that makes overall kill rates go down too much then buff killer to compensate.
As for your arguments about how "killer doesnt actually win more" im not even going respond beyond this sentence becauae that view is either clueless or disingenuous.
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@thrkeybs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859176#Comment_3859176
I usually cringe at your posts, not because you're very clearly biased towards killer, but because your arguments are purely based on arbitrary metrics.
This, however, is the type of comment I wish you left more often — it's excellent.
The conversations in this forum usually turn into people trying to throw percentages and metrics at each other to "prove" that one side of more balanced than the other. The result is unproductive. People leave unhappy, and further dig their heels into their side's argument. No one wins.
Think of your favorite game.
Did you really know about all the statistics role? Were you acutely aware of queue time metrics? Did you try to convince friends to love the game by reading out intimate spreadsheet details to them?
No. You remember how the game made you feel.
Whether you died on a boss over and over, or you got stuck in a certain part of the map becomes irrelevant in the larger sense if the game does a good job at keeping you engaged and having fun. How the game made you feel while playing it is what made you fall in love.
And that's why, as much as I disagree with d87's takes on the regular, I think this is a phenomenal example of what I wish I saw more on this forum. It's much more moving for someone who doesn't play killer as much to know that killers aren't simply unhappy about losing or that they're "unhappy with just a 60% win rate", but rather the extent to which they feel unrewarded for doing their best.
Killers are not having fun despite the outcome of the game. OK! That makes sense to me!
And I can totally get on board with that. BHVR should definitely reward killers for their efforts, in a way that scales with them having to do much more work than the 4 individual survivors — yeah, makes sense!
The problem is killers will never be happy if they have to struggle and grind out wins in a balanced game. That's what they mean be "being rewarded for doing their best", they mean they always want to win without having to try to hard. Also your statement at the end totally gives the game away. The idea that the killer has to do "more work" than any individual survivor shows you are either confused about how this game works or biased.
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Yes the game has been balanced for comp swf players on the survivor side and people new to video games on the killer side.
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@TonTon said:
Finesse + Lithe is becoming a massive problem the speed and distance it gives it truly broken and needs to be nerfed
Why is it a problem, because it helps survivors actually escape once in awhile?
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859023#Comment_3859023
And yet T.Hawk players in SF4 fully accepted matchups vs Blanka and Sagat, which were 70/30 at best
I dont know anything about sf4 so I cant say anything about that. I would guess that.game.is still balanced better overall then dbd though.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858997#Comment_3858997
the side that has opponent's main objective (hooking) in their favor, that obliterates 99% of killer roster on highest skill levels when there are 0 restrictions on both sides builds wise, but then average player from that side complains about the game being opponent sided because they straight up refuse to learn how to play the game and constantly ask for basekit mechanics to fill the hole left by the same refusal to improve i mentioned earlier.
Lasting 20s in chases against nearly powerless killers on maps you have biggest advantage on in terms of strong tiles when any decent player has at least 60s+ chases, rushing unhooks and forcing unnecessary trades at the worst possible times, giving up first two minutes into the match because you don't like how the match is going for your own "fun".
Game mechanics are currently not in killers favor on highest skill levels, matchmaking is the only thing currently in killers' favor because community wanted it to be this way and community complained how SBMM is bad for the game (at the current state, you are literally having a game without SBMM and it's awful).
After we start talking about killrates, first talk about all:
- random 50h players being thrown into matches with 1000+ hour players;
- players giving up as soon as the first chase goes bad for them;
- players lasting 20s in chases;
- players making worst possible macro decisions and grief their team.
After we settle all pf these out, then feel free to talk about game state when you're actually going to have accurate killrates.
I mean maybe you're right about matchmaking being the biggest part of the problem, that is possible. The fact that Bhvr. says they are "shooting for" 60% kill rates though i think is an issue. Its way too high, even if you want killer to be the "power role" go for 55% or something, thats still a 10% advantage.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858997#Comment_3858997
Please stop trying to shoehorn stats into your arguments like that. The game mechanics are not in killer's favor specifically because overall statistics put them in a higher than 50% win ratio. That does not apply to individual players or any kind of precise measure on how much or little skill variables affect that outcome. Part of why some bad killers have high kill ratios is because they are only really played by specialists, not because those killers are OP.
the 60/40 thing is not saying you will survive 40% of your matches, nor is it saying any killer "wins majority of games by default." You are trying to dilute as many variables as you can to try to weaponize a statistic. Rather than actually basing arguments around the amount of said variables, you're trying to use outcome bias to try to rewrite people's experiences.
Yes, killers overall are more likely to win than lose. How that statistic is weighted by skill matchups/builds/maps/swf/killer viability/survivors going next/etc is something that always comes along with such broad statements.
You cn sugarcoat it however you want, a 20% difference in one side achieving their win condition over the other is massive.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858919#Comment_3858919
please list me complaints made by killer players in the last 365 days vs. complaints made by survivor players last 365 days and which complaints were acknowledged with new basekit features being implemented
Which side is the one that has the game mechanics in their favor and wins majority of games by default again?
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858827#Comment_3858827
How?
They've said that they will never, ever, ever give solos and SWFs different abilities and perks.
Also - yes. Sweeping balance changes that'll completely upend the game. It's…fun to dream.
They don't have to give them different perks. Just make all info perks basekit because swf doesnt need those perks anyway because they get all their info from coms. Get it? And sweeping balance changes are better than falling back on the "going next on hook" mechanic just so survivor players dont quit the game.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858975#Comment_3858975
I'm not saying what is fair or not fair. That's an incredibly subjective judgment and everyone has a different opinion or definition of what is "fair". The devs' definition of "fair" for this game is a 60% kill rate, for what it's worth. That's what they are aiming for with the game balance. Sorry you don't like it.
I'm telling you what happens when the average kill rate goes lower than what it's currently at (to be more "fair" in your view). The game becomes more difficult and unfun for killer players, especially against SWF teams which at higher skill levels already have a 50% or better escape rate, so killer players either switch to survivor role or they don't play at all. This isn't just my opinion - it has happened several times in the game's history.
Then find a better solution then making it unfair for the side that complains less. The only reason survivor players don't quit as much as killer players did in the past is because of the ability to go next. Maybe instead of falling back on a mechanic they pretend to not want survivors to use they can try buffing solo que to be closer to the level of swf with all basekit info perks or something. Anything is better than what they are doing now.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858819#Comment_3858819
If you believe that a 60% kill rate is the game being "rigged" in favor of killer players, then it's clear that you're never going to be happy with this game. What is an acceptable and fun escape rate for you? 50%? More than that? Should survivors escape a majority of the time? What do you think killer players are going to do when the game becomes much more difficult for them? Oh yeah, probably the same thing they've always done in the past when escape rates were higher, which was stop playing the killer role and survivor queue times were ridiculously long. There is a custom game mode with bot killers if you want consistently EZ wins.
Okay got it. So 60-40 win rate is fair but 50-50 is unfair. Interesting. Why dont we try 55-45 and see how that goes. Oh only 10% advantage isn't enough? It has to be 20%? Interesting. Imagine any other game.where one side gets to.just demand to have the upper hand mechanically and then paint the other side that actually wants a more fair game as whiners and complainers.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858837#Comment_3858837
I promise you there will always be more than enough Survivors to keep the game going no matter what, because there's always four times as many Survivors as Killers. It's mathematically impossible for there to ever be so few Survivors the game dies, the entire and I mean ENTIRE Survivor playerbase would need to quit overnight and that's just not feasible. Therefore a bunch of Survivors quitting will not do anything meaningful whatsoever, unlike the time when a lot of Killers quit because Survivors were genuinely too powerful. They stayed during 3gen meta and nothing happened. They stayed during facecamping existing and nothing happened. They stayed when Killers were given stuff like TotH buffed too much, and nothing happened. Nothing changed. It never has, it never will.
The reason it worked for Killers quitting but never does when Survivors sabre-rattle about quitting en masse is because it's a 1v4. If the whole side of the game that only has one per four players is unhappy, the whole game suffers. If the whole side of the game with four times as many people in a queue has even 25% of people annoyed at the game enough to quit, that doesn't matter because there's always more people who come in later for events/modes, free weekends, etc. and there's always people who just don't care enough and will play anyway… there's four times as many. You can therefore afford to lose even half of the current Survivor playerbase and it will still not grind the game to such a halt it's an issue.
We saw this in action with 2v8, where everyone wanted to play Killer and it ruined queue times. It literally does not matter as much how many Survivors you have, Killer retention is much more important. You can replace a Surv with a bot. and functionally nothing changes, as proven by them trying to add bots in player lobbies to quicken queues (which thank god they did not do). You can't replace a Killer with a bot.
If Survivor sucks, the only issue is slightly longer queue times. If Killer sucks, you have no game because Killer simply determines game pacing more.
Wow considering how bad you are at math I know even more not to take anything you say seriously. Also your comment about survivors being bots is very revealing. You actually don't give a crap abput survivor players whatsoever and look at them as only bots for your amusement. Thats why you demand they be weakened so much so that they are as easy to beat as bots but you still get the ego gratification of knowing you beat an actual person. Its a complicated game of mental gymnastics where you try not to.recognize that the side you play in the game is literally easy mode. Ill tell you the real reason survivors havent quit the game, its because going next on hook exists so at least survivors can get out of the completely unfair situations. Sad that Bhvr. has to use a makeshift quitting mechanic that they pretend they dont want players to use to avoid balancing their game.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858822#Comment_3858822
Why do you doubt your ability so much, you think an M1 Killer with no power and no perks is too strong? And BHVR doesn't care? Really? When we just got one of the strongest Survivor perks in Shoulder the Burden EVER?
I really think you just want to always win and never have any challenge with a claim like that. You must be joking. You have to be joking. You cannot think that Survivor players as a whole are this incapable, you're trolling you are ACTUALLY TROLLING.
Maybe this isn't the game for you if you literally cannot even handle a powerless, perkless M1 Killer at the most basic of loops, man. Survivors deserve to be treated like they have skill and this game deserves Killers that have powers that can challenge that skill. Why do you want the game to be Barney and Friends, I'll never understand people like you.
If you seriously want EVERY KILLER even the weakest ones so nerfed, Survivors never lose a game again, this is not the game for you. There are many games where you can guaranteed win every time but a multiplayer versus game IS NOT IT and I thank every deity you're not on the balance team, because with takes like this one the game would be dead in the water in under a year.
It's genuinely so upsetting that you have so little faith in your skill as Survivor that you have to claim even the weakest of Killers are OP, and it's genuinely also clear this game is too spicy for you and you can't handle it because you for some reason have a need to hardcore dominate every single Survivor game because you cannot stand the thought of ever losing to even a weak Killer.
I genuinely think after seeing your post history that you won't be happy unless all the much needed buffs to every Killer are reverted, every Killer is rendered a simple M1 chase machine that is there solely for your amusement and never challenges you in any way, things go back to the time when Killers quit en masse because the game was so stacked in Survivors' favor they didn't want to play at all, and then also give Survivors more extra buffs on top of all that. You seem to genuinely want this to be some sort of game where you can beat up on the Killer Friday the 13th the Game style, I don't think even the 2v8 buffs being brought to 1v4 would satisfy your weird need to team up with people to stomp some poor schmo just trying to have fun with a Killer they enjoy into the ground.
We do not and never should have room for that sort of one sided stomp in this game, period ever. I pray something so heinously unfair never becomes a part of the game again.
I don't understand it, but you seem really unhappy and like you don't want to be playing with takes like this one. If that's the case, then please, I beg of you, leave the Fog and find something more your speed, because it's not fair to anyone Survivors included to pretend that all Survivors are so helpless that even a basic M1 Killer is too spicy for us. It's absolutely ludicrous and it's insulting, you do not speak for us.
Stop insulting us as players, and stop insulting yourself. You're better than this, you deserve more dignity than this. And if you really think you don't, please stop playing this game you clearly aren't enjoying. Please. For your sake.
With the state of many of the maps the way they are now an m1 killer probably could get almost 50% kill rate. Loops, which are part of the map, are basically the only way for a survivor to get away most of the time, so, on new coldwind for example, where there are essentially no usable loops anymore, an m1 killer should win a lot of the time. So why don't you stop playing the game since you obviously dont understand it and just demand that your side have an advantage at all times. Its truly pathetic that you're so bad at games you have to play the stronger side on one of the most unbalanced games ever made and then pretend like you play survivor much at all or give a crap about them. Looking at your post history you just seem like a normal gaslighting killer main and the fact you try to get personal just makes you more sad and pathetic. And guess what I'm going to keep playing dbd and I'm going to keep going next whenever something is unfair or even just if I feel like it and hopefully I can help to get a lot more killers like skull merchant and chucky, and now hopefully slugging in general as well, nerfed.
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@thrkeybs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858942#Comment_3858942
Nope. Stop.
You're not actually reading this thread, and you're morphing the thread into a "survivors vs. killer" strength argument.
That's not what this is about — Yes, the two are related: your enjoyment in the game is tied to the strength of your opponent. But the purpose of this thread is to step back from that specific POV, and to think about how the game could be more enjoyable for both sides.
The current levers of balance that BHVR has used are limited to survivor & killer strength, yes. Incremental changes to perks, items, add-ons, etc. that change the way the game is balanced towards one side or the other.
But those aren't the only buttons they can push — the game can be radically changed in a way that both sides actually enjoy the game more, regardless of being in SWF or solo queue. And it's also not our job to tell BHVR how to do this, we can simply provide feedback that that's what we want, and let them do the professional work of adjusting their game.
Wow you started what seemed like an interesting thread but then totally lost the plot. The problem in the game on a fundamental.level is that killer players demand and unbalanced playing field and to win the majority of the time or they won't play at all. Many people always say it in threads like these "when kill levels were more fair killers stopped playing." I will always turn every argument about this game into an "us vs. them" that I can because that is the fundamental problem, that one particular side demands an unbalanced game. Saying "no, you're us vs. theming" again is just gaslighting.
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@DarthYooDar45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435110/why-do-killers-play-so-sweaty-a-rant
As I am a P100 Deathslinger main and just a killer main in general, I think the word "sweaty" is just overused in general. I feel like the correct definition of the word is using your killers power well, which I can do with Deathslinger. The other one is what most scummy killers do, unless you are doing it for pressure. Survivors are going to complain about killers playing sweaty, meanwhile they will bring crutch perks like WoO and Adrenaline and win the game singlehandedly because of them…
You must not ever play survivor if you think windows or adrennaline are going to have much of an impact at all on eacaping or not. Also if those are crutch perks than every single killer power is a crutch. With how killer sided thia game is now an m1 killer with no power can probably get almost 50% kills.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
How many times do we have to post this?
Because Invocations are permanent effects that change the game. They're intended to permanently change the game in your favor in exchange for a mere minute of your time in the basement. You can snuff Boons, you can destroy Hexes, but the Killer can do nothing once an Invocation is cast. Because that's the point of Invocations.
Why should we have multiple game-changing, game stacking effects go off together? If you want to have that much game-changing power, then bring your two Invocations and do them. I mean do you really think it's fair to subject a Trapper to forever aura read and also less charges on one gen? I don't think so. That sounds OP to me.
There's an argument to be made for changing the effect doing an Invocation has, like maybe Treacherous Crows shouldn't perma Break you and should perma Blind you instead. But there is none, not one, except "Because I wanna win even harder and be superman against M1s that cannot handle it" for asking for Invocations to stack this way. I mean what if we get an even stronger one and Invocations can stack? Imagine Weaving, Crows, some Invocation that gives permanent 3% Haste, and some Invocation that permanently reduces the Killer's speed by 5% or something. Imagine that. And they all stack.
If they want to do more Invocations in the future, they cannot have them stack. Because four people can bring them and then have a bunch of things stacked in their favor so the Killer can't do ANYTHING. Like it or not, Invocations need to stay unstackable. Or do you want Killers buffed even more to handle the possibility of an Invocation meta? I don't.
Don't buff Invocations by making them stack. Buff them by buffing what they do individually so you only need to take one.
Oh my gosh, if we had all those different effects stacking maybe the kill rate would go down to 58, or, god forbid, maybe even 55%.
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I just hope that enough survivors will stop playing eventually that Bhvr. will have to make both sides on a more even playing field.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858680#Comment_3858680
Care? Not really. It's annoying enough that I'll try to prevent it in future.
That entire page long paragraph misses the point. I'll inconvenience someone for 4 minutes to avoid being inconvenienced for 20+. It's not only the fault of the hiders, it's BHVR's fault for having so many ways to avoid AFK crows. If they cared, this would have been fixed a long time ago.
Again - 4 minutes versus server closing time. Neither are great, but one is objectively worse than the other.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858799#Comment_3858799
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y6KU1QVNX4M4/image.png
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858814#Comment_3858814
And posts like this contribute to killers being mean. Because if you legitimately want them to suffer, then…well, isn't turnabout fair play?
(The game isn't balanced around solo queue. SWF versus killer is pretty balanced, some things excepted).
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858798#Comment_3858798
It is what it is. If they wanted it fixed, it would be fixed already.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858760#Comment_3858760
Hatch - minor concern, mostly because BM can be annoying.
Hiding - major concern. Especially if they somehow manage to unhook or pick up.
It's easier just to camp the slug. Sucks, but hunting all over the map for 2 survivors who want to troll sucks more.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858752#Comment_3858752
Survivors give up because they want to go to the next game. I'm completely against it, but I understand. Time is valuable.
Now, apply this logic to 2 survivors potentially taking the match hostage in a way BHVR does not seem to want to fix or take action on. Slugging is preferable.
If the game is balanced around swf, then every single possible buff should be given to solo que survivors until their escape rates are as close as possible. All info perks like kindred, bond etc. should be basekit, perks that are solo que killers but worthless against swh like third seal should be taken out of the game. Unless actions like this are taken to show that Bhvr. actually cares about making the game playable for the majority of survivor players than it can only be assumed that the ability to "go next" on hook is purposely kept in the game by Bhvr. due to their choice or inability to balance their game. Without that "escape hatch" even the resolute players still playing survivor at this point would stop playing.
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@SidneysBane1996 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858560#Comment_3858560
There is more to Dead by Daylight than just sitting on gens, popping them all in five minutes, and leaving, yes. We call engaging with Killers and their powers counterplay. Counterplay makes the game fun.
Interactivity is key. This is easy interactivity. Why is it hard to grasp that you need to play different ways against different Killers, do you just want gen repair sim? I don't.
The Skull Merchant nerfs set an AWFUL precedent. Now people think that if they whine enough, BHVR will nerf Killers they don't like because the mechanics are too spicy or broken in a way BHVR for some reason REFUSES to ever look at despite it being annoying for both sides. You cannot have your cake and eat it too just because a Killer has a power, you need to try in the video game.
Asking for nerfs on a Killer because a mechanic they literally don't control is annoying is like asking for your mashed potatoes to be separate from your chicken because maybe a green bean will accidentally fall into them and you don't like green beans. You're asking for a bland basic experience you don't need to try in AND asking to never have any Killer be an inconvenience ever, oh, sorry to bother your gen repair session my bad I forgot Killers aren't supposed to have powers.
My bad. I guess I just expected my opponents to learn the relatively simple counterplay of literally staring at me, but if staring at me is too hard then Hello Kitty Island is on sale, I hear.
This game is so killer sided at this point that even if the killer had no power or perks and was literally only an m1 killer, the kill rate would probably still no go under 50 percent. So I will say things like skull merchant and chucky nerf are actually the only evidence we have that Bhvr. cares about survivor players at all. Hopefully we'll have a lot more nerfs.
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@[Deleted User] said:
For me, the push to make everything take longer has led to survivor feeling worse. The pacing of the game is in a really bad spot right now. Your first gen is often going to be 90 seconds+Pain Res, minimum. And every killer has stacked slowdown, so you're looking at 110 second gens all trial, realistically. That's an absolute slog on top of all the other sit-and-watch-a-bar-fill actions like healing or totems. There's too much slowdown in the game currently.
It's too viable to grind the pacing to a halt and win via attrition. The vast majority of killers I face don't play for chases. They find the 1 or 2 weak links and focus on them. It's not that winning with chases isn't viable, it's that the game never forces killers to get good enough to do it. You can win other ways all while ignoring every good survivor in a lobby until the game is effectively over, which brings me to my 3rd point…
The role of survivor does not reward competency or skill. Even if you're a good survivor, your odds of escaping are completely determined by A: the teammates you were randomly matched with, and B: the killer's willingness to engage with you. Having a good first chase of the game? Congrats, the killer is going to walk away and ignore you for the rest of the match. Also, your teammates don't understand pallets, so you're getting 4k'd. SBMM btw.
Everything you say is true but be prepared to be drowned out by masses of killer mains who like having the game rigged in their favor and will stop at nothing to make it even more so. (This was meant as a response to thrkeybs as well.)
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@danielmaster87 said:
You might have misworded it, but in case you were talking about something else: the devs aren't okay with 4-minute bleedouts, but they are okay with survivors hiding for 10-20 minutes. Seems like a pretty biased addressing of the problem to me.
Man I wish the devs were actually survivor biased at this point. It is absurd that one side (killer) is just easy mode.
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856505#Comment_3856505
But you are not wasting the killer’s time. You, in fact are the one wasting the time of your teammate. The killer already downed them so they are going to die regardless. When you sit hiding in a corner and you’re not going to help them up or work on generators, you are the reason they are sitting on the ground for four minutes. Not the killer, you. So anybody that’s complaining you can thank people like this who somehow think that the killer is getting a “free kill” when you still have three generators left to do. It’s actually the opposite you want a free escape that you didn’t earn and you’re perfectly fine with letting your teammate lay on the ground for four minutes in the hope that you get that free escape.
This is just a fact. Not to mention that 95% of all survivors that I’ve encountered that are hiding to wait for hatch have been hiding for the entire game and not doing anything to help the team. It is for this reason that in the event that I don’t get slugged and I do get hooked, I will do every single skill check to make sure that that other survivor does not get the hatch that they don’t deserve because they did nothing throughout the match to help the team.Blah blah blah, your entire comment can be summarised as "no, you". I don't like killers that slug for the 4k and I will make as hard as possible for them get that 4k, that's it.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435229/survivor-is-no-longer-fun
Killers aren't having the best time either
Well you're winning the majority of your matches so stop complaining.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3818873#Comment_3818873
Object of Obsession is way better with way more benefits and little to no downsides for people who are good in chases
Object is completely useless against stealth killers. Also it will just get you tunneled out of tlhe game if the killer is decent. Unless by being "good" in chases you mean the top .1% comp players. So sick of the gaslighting from killer mains trying to get survivors to run this literally worse than wortheless perk.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856505#Comment_3856505
Bhvr doesn't comment on bans so if someone was banned for that reason people probably wouldn't know about the actual reason. Like I said, you do you but if you think your having the last laugh by wasting the killers time, I assure you your not lol. Your wasting your own time by achieving the same goal which is a loss for yourself. I am happy and have done so many times to wait until server ends. I get my 4k in the end. What do you get out of it? A very slow death lol. Doesn't make sense to me but you do you
I find it fun to deny the killer from killing me as long as possible. If I can die from the endgame timer rather than the killer that is a win for me.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3856477#Comment_3856477
It's not what I claim it's what the Devs have claimed many times lol. You can drag the match out as long as you want but every time a survivor does that I make it go to server end time which means both survivors get automatically sacrificed. You put yourself in a lose lose situation because killer gets the 4k regardless.
Also your goal as survivor is to escape. Do gens then escape. If hatch is available then goal is escape hatch. If no hatch has spawned the goal remains to do gens. Avoiding gens for a prolonged time is avoiding the objective and not progressing the game. This has been stated many times.
Yes people always bring up a statement one community manager for Bhvr. made years ago when the game was totally in a different state than it is now and without context. Can you give me one example of anyone banned or even warned for "not doing gens" and trying to survive as long as possible? Probably not because even Bhvr. knows it would be absurd to ban a player for doing their objective. And even if Bhvr. did decide to take the killer favoritism to new heights and actually ban a survivor player for trying to survive, I would never follow such a rule and would force Bhvr. to ban me as well. I will not be forced to give killers a free kill. I always make it a point to waste as much time of any killer who slugs for the 4k as possible since they are wasting my time with their petty "3k is not good enough" attitude.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
Said it many times, way before mori update... Hatch gives reason to slug. Remove the hatch, remove the reason to slug the 3rd. It's also partly due to survivors hiding and avoiding gens for so long when it's 2 v 1 with multiple gens left knowing they lost the match (which is reportable). The killer needs more time to find the hiding survivor. So what is a killer to do? Kill the 3rd fast and allow the last rule breaking survivor to get a cheap hatch escape? Hell no lol if a survivor is going to play that way and hide then I will keep the 3rd survivor alive for as long as necessary to find the 4th.
As for how do you expect 1 survivor to do gens? You don't. If gens are not done and your whole team is wiped out then you have lost the match regardless if you get hatch or not as hatch isn't considered a win. accept it for the loss that it is, get it over with quickly and move onto the next match.
Always boils down to the argument of "greedy killers wanting 4k when they win v entitled survivors that want a hatch win when they lost"
I don't care what you claim is "reportable", i am going to keep hiding as long as possible and try to keep the killer from getting a kill every time they try to slug for the 4k. I make it my goal to die to the endgame timer rather than the petty killer employing these tactics. If I was to get banned for that then that's when I would probably quit the game for good. Mandy, is it reportable or bannable for me to play my role as survivor and try to survive as long as possible and keep the killer from getting a kill? Essentially, I guess what I am asking is is it reportable to not give the killer a free kill? Whatever anybody answers to this, whether they work for Bhvr. or not I'm going to keep playing the same way unless I get banned or killers stop cheesily slugging for the 4k.
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@Vishlumbra said:
This is a perfect example of the issue with this forums.
No one cares to ask WHY slugging became a thing.
It’s all about the need to nerf killers somehow, without some sort of core mechanics balancing.
Slugging is a thing because they have added so many perks, add ons and items to counter hooks.
There’s a plethora of survivor perks that give second chances, get more health stages, trade hooks etc.
They feel the need to nerf every chase perk and killers good in chase till they become trash.
They made generators fly with perks and op items.They basically nerfed every regression perk till they became “meh” at best.
Then proceed to blame players who enjoy killer with non approved community strats to win.
So instead of asking why, and check what’s possible to achieve with a decent group of survivors, they just label killers as toxic, proceed to create more OP perks to soft patch complaints and keep destroying viable killers.
The full killer roster has 3 strong ones, few decent and a lot completely weak and underpowered, but emotions from survivors are more important than core issues with the game.
Killers are supposed to be a gimmicky npc chasing survivors for their amusement with no possibility to actually win vs survivors with half decent skill.
Community in this forums is always fast on judging the player side, never making accountable the game balance. Strategies emerge from core design, not from players wanting to be “mean”.So yeah OP, they will add base skit unbreakable, along with implementing some buffs like what we saw in 2vs8 and nerf middle of the ground killers till they become weak by all standards. GG.
I know this will never actually happen, but I hope it doea anyway because survivor has been the underpowered role for long enough now. I also just want to see how salty killers on the forums can get, considering their cries are allready at apocalyptic proportions when the developer explicitly states they are purposely giving them a greater chance to win.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3854398#Comment_3854398
A question of character.
If you really want it, you can survive in any situation. This is what modern survivors lack. They are not used to fighting to win. When basic buffs are given for being a survivor. You don't have to become better as a player. While playing as a killer is a constant struggle. This tempers your character. When you go to play as a survivor, you are able to do the impossible.
The one who will live and the one who must live. Two completely different questions in the face of death.
Of course, slug happened to me. I have no complaints about killers because I know why they did it.
Only those who truly believe in their strength are able to escape.
Crawled into the hatch
https://youtu.be/qSZHRwPqAj0?si=5n8s4BJqsAPRYWvZ
Crawled into the hatch
https://youtu.be/mTv60G-95NQ?si=wWm8_9fyShGKEY5F
How to use Unbreakable correctly. Only when the survivor is hooked! The killer must be caught off guard.
https://youtu.be/PYcQjDjGJUw?si=yBeau4RvInTZY73I
What prevents the survivors, like me, from fighting to the end in their games? Why have survivors become so gentle in our time?
What are you even talking about, the game is harder for survivors than it has ever been. It was in the distant past that the game was survivor sided. What modern survivors lack is having the game mechanics tilted in their favor like the old survivors had. Now it's the other way around.
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The real reason is because the game is incredibly killer sided at this point in time, duh. The only reason you would get any other impression is by reading the forums which are full of gaslighting killer players.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3853462#Comment_3853462
Thats still not an issue with the perk. Players are the problem not perk.
You can perform your mental gymnastics as much as you want, if it's possible to make the totems uncleansable under any circumstances then it is broken and needs to be reverted or changed. No one cares that you dont care if the game is unplayable for solo que because you play on comms.