SidneysBane1996
SidneysBane1996
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861924#Comment_3861924
If that means buffing basekit slowdown, then sure.
Current slowdown are already very weak compare to original versions, most of them not really worth to use. You also can't stack several of them, because of 3-gen feature (especially Surge/Eruption).
Overcharge, CoB are super trash.
I also wouldn't mind buffing them to original version or more and limit them to 1/2 per build, but that would need overall rework of perk system for both sides, which is not likely to happen in next years.
I just want some of the weaker slowdown and gen control buffed. Like you said, CoB is trash and so are a lot of more minor generator control perks on Killer side.
Meanwhile, Survivors get BUFFS to generator repair boost perks, a perk that reduces gen charges permanently in exchange for being perma-Broken and a minute of your time, and buffed toolbox sabo when certain toolboxes need nerfing.
So we got a lot of gen repair and progression help, but because a few Killers a year ago were really good at stacking slowdown and 3gennig, Killers aren't allowed to have ANY halfway decent slowdown.
If they aren't gonna buff Killer gen perks, they NEED to nerf Survivor gen perks to make it even. The game shouldn't be about how fast or slow you can make a gen, that just increases stress and it's NUTTY to me they thought to boost generator PROgression but nerf generator REgression. It should all either be buffed to a similar level both sides, or nerfed until it's weaker both sides. And it should never be more than 20% faster/slower, 20% removed/added, or 20% more/less charges.
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861902#Comment_3861902
- Because daylight can exist in horror while still being gritty and like Shroompy mentioned in their reply above, Daytime Coldwind very much gives off the same vibes TCM had in the original movie, something i much more prefer over the yellow night sky old Coldwind had, however i would generally prefer to have both night and daytime maps to exist in dbd rather than just having either a night or daytime map varient only, as having both would give better variety. (Although a night time varient of Coldwind in which the sky is pitch dark instead of yellow would be preferable imo.)
- As i mentioned in my initial comment, i hate the old coldwind's yellow filter with a passion, more so than what i do with all of the other color filters old dbd had and i'm incredibly glad they're all gone. I found Coldwind's especially ugly and generally unpleasant to look at whenever i played on it back in the days.
- It's just my contrarian opinion in a long list of other hot takes i have about this game.
The bright coldwind feels like a weekend trip to your grandparents. Tbf, that can be horror for some I guess.
Which is exactly why i usually take issue with sentiments such as this, because it's in the same vein as whenever people claim ''Horror can't take place during daylight'', which is objectively incorrect.
I actually agree with this. Yes, it sucks for my Main - but horror is allowed to take place during the day too. In some cases it can be even darker than if it occurred at night.
That said, I want day and nighttime variants of EVERY map. I wanna see dark Ormond outside of Lights Out once in a while, please.
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You used to be able to do this and they removed it because it was frustrating, unfun, and problematic for Killer side. It wasn't good game design.
It's the same reason facecamping and the genkick limit happened - because being able to do it was a bad, bad idea that frustrated people and made the game less fun. It shouldn't come back.
Frankly I'd rather sabo be removed entirely, it's always been super anti fun, it unfairly targets Killers who aren't as mobile more, and the Killer literally has no equivalent for Survivor objectives…
RE: @HerInfernalMajesty Those proposed changes to hooking would be so frustrating they'd make me quit Killer, I hated the smoke bombs both sides during Haunted by Daylight and I hate being Blast Mined because I have sensory issues due to Autism Spectrum Disorder. I don't WANT more ways to make my one objective a problem; if Hooks become more punishing I'd have to slug more. I hate slugging.
Punishing hooking is not the answer; I'd rather a perk that stuns the Killer or Hinders them if you leave someone downed too long, but buffs them if they hook. Something, anything to make hooks not a liability and reward people for doing them.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
I think just making the game more forgiving would go a long way honestly.
BHVR's current way of balancing is very very bad for the casual playerbase.Holy my everything this. Make it more forgiving.
Both sides.
Please. I'm sick of the tiresome dance of git guddery.
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@xx_hikaru21_xx said:
I also have this issue. I am on PS4 and it doesn't matter if I mori or am being mori'd I also did not notice the knife
Was wondering about the knife, it looked absent to me too. :(
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Literally every Killer is too annoying, too strong, and needs a nerf now, huh?
Hilarious post my guy, this literally is what every single post has been for like the last four days.
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Honestly I have always thought Myers should just be able to Mori people in lockers and stuff.
Also could we please just not add mechanics to the events that screw certain Killers over for no reason? PLEASE?
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Honestly i'd be fine if they stopped waterboarding us with BP and instead boosted BP gain for Survivors. I'm willing to put up with lots of crap as Survivor for a crapload of BP in return…
Oh, and extra BP events always bring people who want to sweat hardcore for that extra BP boost, so you get Killers who hardcore make SURE they down you and then hook you and guard the hook, and Survivors who hardcore genrush out the wazoo.
Fun!
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As a Survivor, Rancid is bad.
As anyone other than a high tier, LOS needing, mobile, or ranged Killer, Rancid is bad.
As Ghostface Rancid has always sucked. They all sucked. How do I stealth in this?
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@JonahofArk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861579#Comment_3861579
With how many people that conplain about perks, chaos shuffle should be added to the game as a game mode permanently. Cause chaos shuffle is def fun, and it caters towards casual players alot because of the random perks. Its a good break from always having to rub meta perks, and going against meta killer perks
Chaos Shuffle should be THE permanent casual mode. Like forget 2v8, people have already metaed the hell out of that mode. Chaos Shuffle is where the casuals really are. All they have to do is also randomize items and ban map offerings, and we're golden.
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@Dark_Vorahk1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861367#Comment_3861367
The issue is that most players would love to accept the loss and go next. Currently with the slugging epidemic players are left afk for 4 minutes sometimes with particularly malicious intent. Sudden Escape strives to restore gameflow by encouraging hooking as designed by the game. It's unkind to your team to have disconnect at will, when they might not be willing to give up. This also denies recovery perks like Unbreakable, Deliverance, etc.
Be careful not to us vs. them this. It's a touchy subject and there's reasons on both sides to want to KEEP down pressure as well as have something to handle actual slugging.
In my experience what isn't happening is people being left for 4 minutes routinely, (aka actually slugging) I almost never see that unless the Killer really does lose me. Instead what I am seeing is Killers in a 2k situation downing one person, then leaving to go find the second. Or downing someone, leaving them as pressure, and assuming/knowing someone else will pick that person up to buy themselves some time/bait a hiding Survivor. Or punishing altruism by mass downing everyone because they haven't got the chance to leave the hook or because they linger near the hook or the hook got saboed. Or they have multiples down because the Survs aren't very good, and the rest of the team can't get it together to handle it.
In other words? Understandable tactics, NOT slugging to be a jerk. 95% of the time it absolutely isn't malicious, isn't a four minute bleedout, and isn't done for any intent either than to secure a 4k (which is dubious and annoying but I get it) or punish heavy altruism/being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or because the Killer really hasn't got any other option.
So, when this happens, the solution should be automatic sacrifice if everyone is on the floor and nobody can get up in the next 2 minutes, AND the Killer refuses to Hook. If people want to slug maliciously they do it for the power factor, not to win. They're doing it for an ego trip. The solution to slugging therefore, is NOT to punish downing itself no matter how long the down is left. It's to punish the ego trip by taking away the satisfaction of making four people writhe on the ground for four minutes.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861309#Comment_3861309
That's not true of the majority of people. Stomping is pretty boring especially after a long chain of it. You can see that with people who twink and gank in MMORPGs. Do they exist? Yes. Are they the majority? No. The only studies I've heard about that have been done on it came to the conclusion that people, on average, need to win at least 30% of the time to stay engaged and, after winning about 70% of the time or more people lose interest over the long run since it's not challenging enough. Perception as to the causes why someone won or lost play a factor but, overall, people do prefer something that's mentally stimulating and engaging and constant lopsided matches aren't that
I also get the impression that you're not considering the other side of the equation. Are you saying you enjoy it when you get stomped by Survivors? Or are you saying you only enjoy the game when you stomp your opponents?
Oh all of this, and especially your point about long winstreak chains and stomping a lot. It's soooooo so boring. So boring. I know for I get bored when I am getting stomped, that's boring and demoralizing. But I also usually turn the game off when I am the one who is doing the stomping, because that is also boring. In fact I have been on an off and on hiatus from the game for a bit because the results I got were either, I stomped, I had to sweat super hard to barely win, or I got stomped. None of which were fun to me, and all of which were stressful.
I want an experience that is more like, I have space to choose how hard I wanna stomp. Give me some breathing room, just a little please and thanks. Play the round, do the round, but let me BREATHE slightly and I will let YOU breathe. The more complex the Killer I find the more difficult it is to get that breathing room and orient. I just don't enjoy that.
Why do people play and Main M1 Killers? Why do people Main TRAPPER of all Killers especially? Why do I Main someone like Ghostface who has very little power and is somewhat map dependent? Why do I play M1s that have to Mindgame more often than Killers that can hit over pallets really easily? For good reason - there's challenge there. I can show skill there. I can have a fun interesting interaction there.So when people say, "[M1 Killer] is so weak. [M1 Killer] is so bad. You will not win against good Survivors with [M1 Killer]. Why do you Main [M1 Killer]?"
I just go, "Because it's more fun."And it is. It is more fun. There is no joy in a battle that isn't slightly frustrating, because a battle that's frustrating makes you think. It has stakes. It makes you adapt.
It makes you learn.
And that's why people Main M1, C tier, D tier, and less powerful Killers.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861410#Comment_3861410
I have played over 3k hours of Pig. I have found out almost every single little trick you can do with her. Dbd becomes very monotonous over the time. Getting kills does that as well. Therefore I try to find my own fun. It's a game after all. They are supposed to be fun. Dbd became more like a job the more I focused on forcing wins that just should not be. The more I won, the less fun I had. The higher your mmr becomes the more dbd shows it's nasty side.
This being, that not the more skilled players win, but those bringing the better loadout. As Pig is often found the limitations of the killer. Comp people using the absolute best items and perks while being in coms and a map of their choice. Winning against these guys wasn't fun. It didn't feel right.
I play dbd mostly for the m1 chase and the strategic aspect of Pig and Sadako. I prefer to go for 12 hooks with a chill build. This is straight up not possible against those teams.
Therefore I stopped trying to win by all means and just played. I went into the match with the mindset to just habe fun. Believe it or not, but I've been enjoying the game a lot more since then. I also won a lot more. A calm and collected mind that focuses on playing well wins more than someone forcing wins by any means while being in the verge of smashing their monitor the moment the next dh hits. That's just my experience though.
As soloq survivor though, this mindset is hard to apply because your fun can very often be ruined by your team doing funny things.
Of course this is anecdotal evidence. Same is your experience.
I prefer not to have mmr revealed. Id prefer for it to be removed and a different system to be introduced. Everyone's opinion matters. I for myself often play, played and won against comp players. Even those with big names. So I can say for myself: I'm where they are at.
You are the Killer I at 1.6k hours am struggling to be more like. It's so hard to train myself out of this endless need to perform and look good, and it's so stressful. Bottom line is, I don't have fun trying to force 4ks especially if it's clear the Survs just wanna win really hard. I want it to be breezy and simple and a nice back and forth, or I don't want it anymore, because as you said - the more you win, the more annoying the game gets, and the more needlessly difficult you make it on yourself. After a while - AS EVERY SINGLE KILLER I don't care where in the Tierlist they fall - you find yourself fighting upstream and maybe even feeling nauseous or sick at the idea of playing Killer, and it's just like… what is the point? I have everything, I have no more people to prestige, I got all the perks, I've hit Iri I a few times, I have nothing left but cheevos maybe, I have the cool photos, I HAVE almost everything - so why am I bothering to pursue pips and stuff instead of just playing the game?
And I think most people who play Killer secretly want that - an easy nice back and forth - but they're either too proud or too caught up in the winstreak high to admit it, if they haven't done it already.
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@Oputeeva said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859420#Comment_3859420
enjoy your 20k bps from match then since there is no chase
That is exactly why he needs a buff, not a nerf, because he lacks chase points, because he's not good at chase, because he's an ambush Killer. He should be given more points for what he IS good at but still have SOMETHING for being smart enough to somehow use his power in chase against Survivors. Maybe start by making mindgaming a points event, both sides. That would reward chase.
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@Dark_Vorahk1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861324#Comment_3861324
Then additional hatches spawn. After 120/180/240 seconds that would mean each survivor has the potential to spawn 3 hatches for a total of 12 assuming the killer never picks up. As for automatic death, no. Player agency should be respected. If the killer chooses to risk hatch escapes that is up to them. This would also create a point of no return, where some killers would have preferred to "prove" they won and then let survivors farm and/or escape.
I think I'll update it with 2 additional clauses. Instant collapse cannot be activated while an exit gate is opened. Self collapse becomes possible if all Survivors are downed and the gate is not open.
Thank you for your feedback.
OK, new question, where would these hatches spawn and how many hatches could spawn? If the Killer downs the same Surv more than once do more hatches spawn?
No problem, thanks for taking the feedback. :)
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I've experienced this testing out Taurie, it's not functioning as it should. Either you don't scream, you don't become Exposed, or both fail to happen.
Until this perk is fixed it should be killswitched; the intended downside is not working and that makes it too strong for what it can do. It could easily be abused.
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M1 Main here.
Yeah this still happens. Address it. 7 Months and you won't address it, BHVR?
If Survivors had a glitch like this it would have been fixed in a week.
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I swear this was a prior glitch that got fixed, why are flashbangs causing so many issues these days?
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My only issue with Sudden Escape is. What happens if the Killer downs everyone and REFUSES to press the button to summon the Entity? It should just happen, it shouldn't be optional.
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This perk is only reliable on Killers that open lockers a lot, I don't see the issue.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861167#Comment_3861167
Learn proper grammar and actually punctuate your sentences so that people can actually read them.
Don't be insensitive, they said English is not their first language.
That said, Looping is part of the game. Please learn how to handle it, OP. I'm going to assume you're new to the game, but Looping is how Survivors show skill. It's not going anywhere, I'm sorry.
And gen time is not the problem. Certain toolboxes being too strong are.
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Fix Ghostface's Lean. Ghostface Reveal rework to be more fair BOTH sides. Ghostface addon pass.
Toolbox balancing. Survivor sound occlusion balanced so we don't have some super loud and some super soft. More perks both sides buffed, perks that have become too meta strong nerfed.
Remove self-unhooking unless you have certain perks for it or a Luck offering.
Please and thank you.
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@jesterkind said:
Hard disagree, gen times are currently perfectly fine.
The issue this game has with gen speed (that exists outside of poor decision making for the killer player, that is) is exclusively tied to toolboxes. They're the only thing this game has that pushes gen repair speed far enough that it becomes legitimately problematic.
Toolboxes should be reworked to provide a different benefit than gen repair speed, and the problem would then disappear.
This. This is the answer.
Gen times are fine. Gen charge reduction is fine, gen perks that make it faster are fine, teaming on gens is fine.
It's toolboxes and the stacking of them with these other things that makes it a problem. Why on earth do we need all the above, AND to make gens go 50% faster? Why do we need a game that last 8 minutes and ends with us all butt-dancing in the endgate easily because the Killer hasn't got enough time unless they bring gen perks themselves, gen perks we all hate going against anyway?
Balance and normalize toolboxes like we did with medkits, and leave the perks and other things alone. Please. It's frustrating for Killer, and it's unfun for Survivor when you have a Killer that feels frustrated and stressed and plays like it. Then adjust Killer gen perks to compensate so they aren't all-powerful and we don't have a genblock meta again.
I don't understand why this is so hard when every event, we don't have rarities on toolboxes because we always get the best kind of toolbox as an event toolbox, the equivalent of a Commodious which is the problematic one. I shouldn't be able to slap three gen perks and Lithe on, bring a Commodius BNP+Spool, and do a gen in under 20 seconds. I shouldn't have to bring generator slowdown to even stand a chance as an M1 Killer. We should not have to do this.
Generator progression speeds should never be faster than 20%. Generator regression power should never be higher than 20%. Period, end of.
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Not a fan of these, the AI pathing on them is really bad. I would rather any other mechanic but this.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861192#Comment_3861192
I'd say we have reached a middle ground, actually.
I like the current state of the Forums.
I agree with you! I've seen it as a lurker before joining being more Killer sided in the past for sure, it's a lot healthier now.
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@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861003#Comment_3861003
Most people on the forums play killer. I wouldn’t take that as a proof of anything.
Pretty much everyone who plays the game plays both Killer and Survivor, at least here. You want skewed, just go to the Survivor sided r/DeadByDaylight or the Killer sided Steam forums. These forums are balanced in comparison.
In both cases, on both sides, I never want to go to a map the other side is offering. I don't want to be run around the abusable Suffo Pit Main or deal with never-hook-me spots on Ironworks as Wraith. I don't want to be stuck having to deal with Rotten Fields or any other Coldwinds map because a Billy or a Blight wants to winstreak. I don't enjoy being dragged to Eyrie or Garden of Joy as Ghostface or Sadako due to the high line of sight and brightness that neuters stealth play, and I don't like it when sweaty Chuckies take me to Swamp to use the tall grass or Legions force Haddonfield because it's Killer-sided and they can ping-pong between the houses easily.
I. Don't. Like. It. When. People. Abuse. Map. Offerings. To. Force. The. Game. In. Their. Favor.
Period, end of. It's sweaty, it's stupid, it's unfair, and it drives a further wedge between sides that shouldn't even exist because most people play both sides. I think literally EVERYONE who plays the game can agree with that.
There is no us vs. them. This isn't an issue where Killers or Survs benefit more over the other, and it doesn't matter what side of the schism these forums fall on.
Bad maps ruin the fun for everyone, and people abusing the maps to tilt the game in their favor, even on the side YOU personally play more of or favor, are a problem.
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@CursedPerson said:
One of the biggest pain points for the slug games is just having to sit there. it would be much more fun if you could crawl and recover at the same time. There should also probably be a self recovery speed buff
I 100% support the idea of being able to crawl and recover (maybe at a slower rate than if still) at the same time, and maybe even a faster bleedout timer. There shouldn't be a case where EITHER side can weaponize being left down, and nobody seems to have an issue with the 2 minute endgame collapse, so why not a 2 minute bleedout and some faster recovery?
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861035#Comment_3861035
Well so does Doctor. So does Sadako. So does dredge. And meyers….
Are you seriously complaining because he doesn't have a gun, projectile vomit, or some other form of ranged attack?
I think they're complaining that people are complaining that THESE Killers that have "nothing but a knife" are too strong. Which is definitely a what the fog moment.
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@Equinox_One said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861152#Comment_3861152
Okay, this was all over the place. So point by point.
- The OP never said that SM didn't need adjusting. They're saying that this was done in the wrong way.
- Survivor reactions to this, which were ALL some variation of 'deserved', 'lol get wrecked', 'mission accomplished', 'now delete her no compensation jajajaja' have set up an us versus them situation to an insane degree.
- OP is saying that now no killer is safe, and if you enjoy playing a killer that some survivors dislike, well - it becomes a meme, people start quitting against them a lot and boom, BHVR will basically delete that killer. Note: not nerf. They'll make them unviable.
- The only reason they didn't killswitch SM for the 3-4 years it'll take her to get reworked (trust) is because people spent money on cosmetics.
- We can infer the case, because Mandy went on a stream and was basically laughing about how they ruined SM deliberately.
- SM could have had some small adjustments made. But that wouldn't have pacified the mob. And that's the problem. BHVR listened to the mob and did the wrong thing. Deliberately, and will full knowledge. Again - see Mandy on stream.
- Goat me…what? Gloat? Goad? No idea. And it's very interesting how you blame killers for getting annoyed at that sort of thing, not the people doing it. Just a little bit of victim blaming with your morning coffee I assume?
- I can assume because basic logic and Mandy's statements on stream. This was deliberately breaking a killer so nobody would play her, in the hopes the mob will quiet down a bit. Problem is - the mob learns. Which killer is next? Hag? Artist? Cenobite? Twins? Plague? Doctor? Bubba? Fred…oh wait
Thank you for coming to my defense here, this is what I was getting at - and yes, they were being dismissive and missing the point. They have also alongside others been following me across the forums to harass me about this and other points on other discussions, refusing repeatedly to engage in discussion to the point I've had to block them to get any discussion even remotely done without getting so annoyed with this community not caring about others in the game, I just leave in frustration or even worse end up saying something regrettable and too mean. For some reason, that sort of following to harass behavior is considered ok here, I guess.
I'm not angry about the SM nerfs. She needed it. I think she was fine after the first nerf. The second nerf however made her Freddy 2.0, all so nobody would ever have to see her again. How is that fair to her players? How is that fair to anyone who wants the game to have variety? It comes across as victim-blaming, all because someone DARED to enjoy a Killer people don't like. How on EARTH is that okay?
I'm saddened that the message people took from the nerfs is, "we can convince the Devs to nerf Killers we find annoying based on whining enough to the point that Killer is so useless, nobody plays them and we never have to see them again - because the Devs agree with doing that." I'm angry nobody sees the issue with "well the Killer's annoying so the solution is to say eff those players, nerf the Killer and make them play someone else we PREFER to play against". I'm frustrated people are looking at Killers like my Main, who literally next to NOBODY complained about even two years ago as being unfair, and calling them unfair because of the one or two things they can do that ARE skillful and DO have counterplay and are only so skillful because the player playing them is fighting against unfun or glitchy mechanics and has learned how to deal with them. We used to call those techs 2 years ago, not "abusing an unfair mechanic". Why is my skill with a character, arguably a weak one at that, a problem now when it literally never was before?
And that's what makes me upset, and what spurred this post. And all I can ask is, who's next? Is Ghostface next? Will they nerf my Main?
I feel like they will, because people are mad, and then what will I have? I got into this game because I could be Ghostface. I got into this game because I find Ghostface fun and at the time, people generally LIKED him and still do. I got into this game because I could indulge in a fun fantasy of being a slasher villain or running from slasher villains. If he were nerfed to nothing, I genuinely would quit because there'd be absolutely no reason for me to play anymore.
Why, why do I deserve to have the game I love taken from me because of something the Devs accidentally broke being too frustrating for others to learn to counterplay against? It's not my fault his Reveal and Lean are broken. It's not my fault some people quit because of that. It's not my fault.
All I want to do is play the game. And I think most Skurchent players and Mains felt the same way.
Why does a Killer deserve to be destroyed - not nerfed, DESTROYED - because a mob of Survivors, four times as many as there are Killers, think she's unfun instead of making her a priority to be MADE fun?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860381#Comment_3860381
Actually it wouldn't be, because in order for it to be a 50% kill rate, that means the survivors open the gate 60% of the time, if we assume all 3k are hatch/gate after hatch escapes and all 4ks are with the gates unpowered (which lets face it vast majority of them are).
That means the killer has failed to hold gens and survivors have completed their objective at least 60% of the time… so the killer is losing on a 50% killrate 60% of the time. At least if you subscribe to the idea that kills != skill.
Now to be completely fair, this does come at the expense of survivor side individual survivor rates, amplified by the fact that if 2 survivors survive, you have a 50% chance of being one of those 2.
However I would argue the low individual survival rate is what makes survivor so engaging to play.
Now I know that sounds like killer main talk, but I actually play survivor about 60%-70% of my game time nowadays... and let me ask you this... how often do you see survivors bringing full meta in the average lobby? If survivors surviving is what is required for DBD to be fun, why do very few people bring full Commodius Toolboxes with BNPs and/or charge addons in your average lobby? I would argue it's because easily surviving without much effort is boring.
If you dont take full meta as survivors, you are categorically the underdog as a individual survivor, and I for one don't really enjoy the game when I'm absolutely saucing a killer who has no real power to answer. The killer is meant to be a scary entity that I fear, and if they are strong I'm still tense, even when doing mundane things like gens. The idea of escaping is built upon the idea of cheating death...and Death has to be a common occurrance in order for that satisfaction to exist.
Yes getting excessively slugged, tunneled, camped is annoying, but I accept these as possibilities and always try to ensure it's punishing for the killer to do them. This is what makes survivor stimulating for me, my actual survival doesn't really matter.
My goal every game is get the gate powered and open. Whoever gets out of those gates at that point is kinda immaterial. This is why we all go for saves to get the 4 man escape at end game. We could call it a win for survivors if 3 of us just leave and let the 4th die, but we don't, we always come back for the save, because cheating death is what makes DBD fun. If we are all getting out more commonly, then surviving the trial becomes more of a "going through the motions" thing... and I for one think that hurts DBD overall.
This is truth that nobody wants to admit and really well put. It's not that 60% killrate IS 60% winrate. BHVR has said as much that killrate isn't winrate, and that does make sense because in an assym the 1 has to be as strong as the 4 for actual balance. One look at Nightlight.gg can tell you that. 60% killrate mans the Killer is able to kill 60% of Survivors in an average round on average. That means a 2k and a few hooks, not 60% 4ks. Last I checked, a 2k was a tie, not a win. This is also why other stat sites like Dead By Stats show KILL rate not WIN rate, and for all Killers the KILL rate is right around or a little below/above 60%. So if you're hitting 60% or about there, you're doing just fine, even if you're not doing consistent 3-4ks, and this is across all Killers. Think mine last I checked was around 62%, which is a little better than average but still average - and I am playing mostly M1 Killers that are kinda on the weaker side, like Pig and Ghostface, in rounds that are honestly kinda hard fought battles if Survivors play seriously. This is because Killrate and Winrate aren't the same. WINRATE means how often you 3-4k, and that actually IS at 50%… if everyone on both sides is balanced around similar skill level.
However, you aren't matched around the intended skill level for balance hardly ever. Killer is always SoloQ except in 2v8, so they have this issue of course with the exception of the fact they need to be 4x as strong as Survivor, and are. Every Killer even the weakest is 4x as Strong as one individual Survivor because that's how the game tracks kills, so of course the ideal is an even match. But the game doesn't do that in order to preserve queue times, it's speed over quality, so Killer queues can be a crapshoot of absolute infants to 4 man death SWFs with hardcore items galore.
This is a frustrating unfun game experience where you have either a boring game you stomp easily in, or you have a really hard frustrating game where you get a few hooks and it feels like you were set up to fail, neither of which feel good, and which lead to people getting tired. Nobody wants to go from simple kindergarten slaughterfest to "Oh my God why the hell did I even load up as [Favorite Killer] today". And the only way to handle the latter is by throwing on the strongest stuff and playing super sweaty optimal in preparation, only to stomp the former at five gens and look like a jerk who wants to ruin peoples' days. In NEITHER case does your skill with the Killer matter, what does it matter if I am great at 99s and ambushes as Ghostface when my opponents either never fail to reveal me or are so blind they're easy pickings all the time? My skill is always either never challenged or not enough to help, and it's the same with every single Killer - what does it matter that I'm able to flick my whip as Nemesis if nobody ever hugs loops or they ALWAYS hug loops in a way that makes it easy? What does it matter that I can set up the perfect web of birds at shack as Artist to guarantee a hit if nobody knows how to use shack, or they know exactly why not to use shack? What does it matter that I'm a fantastic Xenomorph if people either know perfect turret placement every time so I can't use my power, or they're so bad at handling me that I can easily track them in my tunnels pop out and skewer them on my tail every time while they try to greed a pallet like I'm Trapper with no traps?
Meanwhile, the same issue is four times worse in SoloQ Surv. SoloQ Surv is such a crapshoot I barely ever play it unless I have no choice, I am ALWAYS with at least one other person I know usually on Discord so we can vibe, because SoloQ Survivor feels bad, because you're not intended to be as strong as the Killer is when you're one lone Surv. You're supposed to be about even to the Killer only as a team of four - one Killer is as strong as four evenly matched Survivors. So you end up the 1 in the 1v4, where one of the 4 is 4x stronger than you, and despite your best efforts and skill and everything you brought and your attempts to communicate, all you can do is save friends you brought in with you or save yourself. But you can't even do that half the time, because Hatch doesn't count as a win, and it doesn't feel satisfying to leave people hanging, so you become overly altruistic and die or tie anyway. It feels unrewarding and like you're doing the motions, because you are - do gens, die or escape, maybe loop, repeat. Of course the Killer won't engage with you if you're strong because they don't have time to, weaker links exist, so you get no fun and in the end die anyway, you don't get to show your skill and it's not interesting.
This is because you never or very rarely, at least in SoloQ, get four equally matched Survivors and a Killer for your skill level. You could load into an underlevelled lobby where nobody knows pallets, but because your MMR is higher, the Killer matched to you is also higher, then they stomp the weaker Survs and you die because the Killer saves you (the strong link) for last. Or you could be matched into an overlevelled lobby, where everyone knows the game better than you including the Killer, and then when you lose to a Killer who's outside your pay grade the whole team crumbles and inevitably blames YOU for being a failure. Neither one feels good at all, and it happens way too often. No wonder Survivors would rather SWF, I sure as hell refuse to play SoloQ because Randoms ruin the experience for me while meanwhile the Killer is usually just doing what they do.
Don't even get me started on the toxicity either side can bring, I've had just as many Surv randoms decide I need to be punished by bringing the Killer to me or teaming with the killer at 2 left, teabagging me on hook, or sandbagging me on purpose as I have Killers who decide to bleed us all out at 5 gens and hump us on the ground. But unlike when you see that as Killer, as Survivor it feels worse, because you have absolutely no way to fight back against it.
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@thrkeybs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3859139#Comment_3859139
Its hard to make the game fun most of the time for both sides in an A-symm.
Hard, not impossible. It can be done — and our goal in giving feedback isn't to solve the problem. Let the pros at BHVR handle that. We're just looking to give them feedback that makes their job a little less challenging.
Also is unsafe really that bad? Doesn't it imply you need to make more correct reads to be able to play the tile. Also before anyone says anything I am not including the death pallet that is the midwich hallway pallet. Basically every pallet can be played to some effectiveness when ran right.
Fair point.
I'll expand on what I was saying, and what I've heard others say in this thread:
It's not that unsafe pallets shouldn't exist, nor that every tile should be infinitely loop-able. Like a nice, delicious salad, you have a healthy dose of each ingredient. Some pallets should be unsafe, some loops should be 50/50, others should allow the killer and the survivors to get into interesting mind game situations.
The draw of this game, at least for me, is the human element. Because killers are people, their behaviors can be read and understood — and they can, likewise, predict survivor behavior. Being on a tile that you both are trying little mind games with each other, doubling-back and using the walls to your advantage..
That's really freaking fun. When a killer catches me after a good mind game situation, I find myself saying out loud "damn, good job."
The sentiment I have, and I see other survivors in this thread share, is that this type of gameplay has been slowly patched away, favoring map design that encourages more "hide-and-seek" situations — if the killer finds you (esp. near a dead zone), you really don't have a lot of outplay resources. That's not nearly as exciting, to me anyways.
This. This is why I play M1s, because you have to mindgame with them.
You can't mindgame half of these tiles, and it's unfun. I want more mindgameable tiles and LESS junk fillers. I want LESS random pallets and vaults, and MORE tiles that are fun to play around. I want that for both sides. More of stuff like MacMillan's, Ormond Lake, Lery's, Toba, Nostromo Main, and Forgotten Ruins with interesting structures to play around in. LESS of Eyrie, reworked Haddonfield, Nostromo outside, Rotten Fields, Gideon, Swamp, and Garden of Joy where everything is a pallet, a vault, or a strong chainable loop into the Main you have to blindly chase through. I want INTERESTING stuff.That's not what has happened here. Killers and Survivors want interesting counterplay areas, not more dead zones.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I just think the game is suck a cluster ######### of perks and addons, it has created a whole bunch of really unpleasant metas and killers have a lot of means to turn matches into miserable events you endure rather then enjoy.
Honestly some days are not bad, today has been a good day in the fog for me, all the sadistic weirdos seem to come out on the same days with what seems to be a primary goal of creating the most miserable matches possible.
I do feel very nostalgic for pre-2020 DBD, where it was still broken in some ways (and very janky) but it was also quite simple and less sweaty unless you were red ranks.
If it helps Matt, I'm trying my hardest not to be that Killer OR that Survivor. I hate overusing meta, but even I've had to use meta. Mostly, because I feel I have to, because I can't trust my opponent not to do the same.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858808#Comment_3858808
I hate to be this guy, but it's not how little you lose that counts. It's the way in which you lose. You did just as fast chases, used just as much strategy, and made as few mistakes as when you won, but because the survivors were fast on gens, they just get 3 out by default. It's got nothing to do with skill.
This is a good point, most people do not mind losing if they feel the loss was fair.
The problem comes when people lose based on a totally bad matchup they had no hope in, mechanics that tilt the game so far out of their favor they can't do anything concrete, they only get a few hooks before everyone's out the door or a single half-chase before they're dead at 5 gens, and they then feel forced to run sweatier and sweater perks to not have that experience again. The worst part is, like you said, that win then doesn't have to do with skill but because you hammered your opponent with overpowered stuff to the point they cried "uncle".
It comes down to what you said here, for Survivors and Killers alike: the game feels like it actively punishes you for losing, both sides, despite you trying your hardest and using skill and not messing up and you STILL get slapped on the wrist and told "No, bad player, git gud and try harder". And that's bad game design, because failure is a game state, not something you should punish for or reward.
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I think the issue is that Survivor was never really a fun role to begin with, only ARTIFICIALLY fun because you could previously curbstomp some Killers into the ground with stuff that frankly, needed adjusting.
The role isn't fun because we and BHVR emphasized the idea that the only way to have fun as Survivor is to do your objective, harass the Killer into an impossible chase that takes five gens, and leave instead of the hide and seek game it was meant to be. In return Killers learned to optimize, so Survivors learned to optimize, and not a single soul at BHVR sees an issue with this because we all said on the surveys that CHASE was the most important. Not hiding, not other objectives, chase. And both sides consistently have said this.
Nobody has stated anything so much as "give Survs more meaningful things to do and give Killers REASONS to show mercy and not just gogogogo all the time." Not one. The reason Survivor isn't fun, is because Killers aren't encouraged to show mercy or make the game fun for Survivors. They're encouraged to win at all costs, so Survs are encouraged to win as fast as possible, so everyone goes around in a big circle and just hates the game, and then they post threads like this one that state what everyone already knows.
Survivor isn't fun because we made it that way, and BHVR doesn't listen or add ways to change up the gameplay that are meaningful. The best we get are totems, Invocations, nerfed tools to counter Killer tactics, and changes in the modes and events that don't really do much. The fundamental issue is the gameplay loop is stale for Survivor in a way it's not for Killer, because Killer has the option of choosing 30+ different playstyles but Survivor only has one.
How can they fix this? IDK… bring Survivor classes to 1v4?
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861118#Comment_3861118
nono, i'm just liable to get in trouble if i continue. i gave the benefit of doubt before but then i saw the thread where you suggested reworking a perk into a 0 condition instaheal perk with the effects of a perk that already exist in the game. that's just laughably bad.
never cook again :)
I'm too mature to argue with someone childish enough to follow me across the forums to whine at me in a separate thread. I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt and engage with you there, but now I see you don't care to, you just want to argue.
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@[Deleted User] said:
If you are left down for over 60 seconds, and nobody hooks you or picks you up, this also activates, but you can only do this once and it deactivates in endgame (there's no reason for Killers to do anything but try to catch people in the endgame, so slugging is valid).
You can use it right off Hook, as this has counterplay, but you still only get to use it once a round unless a multiple slug without hook happens.
Are these separate use cases or a shared "token"?
The bleedout timer is now 2 minutes, not 4.
You can bleedout faster by crawling.
But why? Combined with the other conditions as-is, this would enable a 2 slug, 1 injured, 1 hook playstyle where you can just keep slugging the 2 over and over for a faster kill time than hook stages. Especially with anti-heal, killers like Legion/Plague, or high mobility killers. That just doesn't seem right to me.
Knock OutVery Rare The Cannibal PerkPutting a Survivor into the Dying State blocks the auras of gens, totems, chests, the basement hooks, and yourself from being revealed to all Survivors within 34/24/16 m of the Downed Survivor for 15 seconds, and shows you the auras of any Survivor within that same range for 15 seconds. When you hook this Survivor, the nearest injured Survivor to that hook within 34/24/16 m screams and reveals their location.
The following effects apply to the Downed Survivor for the next 15 seconds:
- Crawls 50% slower
- Recovers 25% faster
- Suffers Blindness and Deafness- That's just blindness minus survivor auras being blocked right? 15 seconds is a horrible duration for that, and making an exception for one perk is weird and not something BHVR intentionally does often. Unless that's not what you meant and it does block survivor auras.
- The survivor aura read for the killer when downing a survivor is basically just Infectious Fright minus the scream. Considering how Distortion is right now I feel like it'd just be a straight upgrade…and 15 seconds is too long in this case.
- The hook part is a neat idea. Not sure how it fits the theme of Knock Out or why this perk would have so many effects now.
- Recovers 25% faster? Why though?
The Unbreakable rework is just…no thanks. Someone didn't play during the instaheal + DH for distance era. Adding passive effects on top of that (that are also just Vigil…like literally we already have that perk minus the deep wound thing) is just ????????
Now to address the only other person here who bothered to engage and not just lowkey try to insult me and start an argument…
Point One: They're a shared token, but I could see an argument for a separate use case! I agree it could be problematic, though.
Point Two: Didn't consider that, thank you - I wrote this up at 9 PM and was tired, so I didn't really think too hard. This is more meant to start a discussion on what could be possible fixes.Point Three: I probably overbuffed Knock Out, but I genuinely can't think of what else you could do with it to keep the idea of it but not promote slugging, but also has value. How would you fix this or address Knock Out? I admit my idea's not great but I'm not sure how else to fix it. The 25% faster recovery is meant to make it ANTI slugging by buffing it in other ways as a trade-off, the way you have to go out of your way to not tunnel to get full value from Grim Embrace. So, it's a very powerful perk with a strong drawback, the way Invocations are.
Point Four: I didn't play during that era and I agree it's also probably overbuffed. Again, ideas for how this could be fixed but not break it? -
@Emeal said:
The slugging issue is overblown, its only mildly or slightly infuriating, if they find this game unfun because of slugging, then this game isnt for them, BHVR has decided these things are a-okay parts of intended gameplay, because they have done absolutely nothing to stop them, which is as good as a green stamp of approval.
ALL games have some mild amount of annoying things in them because no game is perfect and especially not a game with a massive roster of characters. :)
Understandable, and the slugging issue IS overblown IMHO, but it is happening and is a thing. This thread is for people who are upset about that and this proposal is meant to counter actual toxic slugging. If you weren't so blinded by the need to get one over by me you'd see this post is an olive branch and attempt to reach people who DO think it's too much, while also addressing the real issue with slugging - the fact that some slugging (and I don't mean the tiny little max one minute down that anyone with patience can handle, I mean really truly slugging for four minutes until death) is toxic and the game promotes doing it.
Copying what I said to follow me across the forums to other posts in order to attempt to mock me with it is immature, childish, a form of cross-forum harassment, pretty ridiculous behavior, and very toxic. Not to mention, shows a deeply unhealthy obsession with me that probably should be addressed, because why does a random person on a video game forum live in your head so rent free you feel the need to do this?
Besides, I stand by what I said in other posts, Emeal. Slugging is considered OK by BHVR. That doesn't mean it's right, it means BHVR isn't gonna do anything about it because they consider it as gameplay to be able to down Survivors and leave them down for a period of time, but the real problem is that bad actors are abusing this gameplay feature to leave people to bleed for four minutes. Throwing my own words back at me as some kind of "aha take that" doesn't mean anything here, because I stand by what I said.
Maybe instead of looking to burn bridges and get one over on people because you disagree with them and are frustrated at the game, you could instead either take a break from the game or engage with the discussion at hand like a mature adult? The discussion is about a mechanic I proposed, in case you forgot. Try to be productive, I know it's hard when you're upset at slugging and the fact you can't get under my skin, but please try.
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@Oputeeva said:
Very killer sided post. Well OP never plays as a soloq surv in mid-high mmr where killers max dirty with broken builds. All those killers you are mentioned deserved some kind of nerfs (except Wraith), and looping 30+ killers is a lil too much for survivors, where as a killer you can main 1 killer and don't be stressed about which killer you will face, their builds, addons or maps. Killer gameplay is just chill for me since dbd is killer sided by stats. Merchant deserved her nerfs, she needs a good rework since her design is very awful
And why do Killers play that way at Max level?
Because Survivors play that way, because Killers play that way, because Survivors play that way, because Killers play that way, because…
You could have saved your typing here and just said you have to sweat to win, because that's true of EVERYONE at high MMR. Nice assumption by the way - I currently play 70% Survivor, with SWF, because I don't like playing SoloQ not because of Killers… but because of other random Survivors giving up in perfectly winnable games because they got downed ONCE, so then I die, so then I go down in MMR, so then I get worse randoms. I've played at high MMR. I've played against Comp Blights. I've played in SoloQ against Comp Blights. I know how unfun it is, not because of the Killer… but because of the Survs I am matched with. That's why it's unfun, not the Killer doing what Killers do and the game tells them to do.
Other. Friggin. Survivors. Who need to win so hard, they throw me and my casual ass under the bus EVERY TIME things go south, or worse yet… give up before the game begins.
"Looping is too much for Survivors" … I mean I didn't say that, you did. Nobody here insulted Survivors but you. Good Survivors definitely do not think looping is too much. In fact they know it's the best way to handle most of the roster, and there are OTHER tactics for the half of the roster it doesn't work for.
Looping is part of the fundamental gameplay of Survivor. I understand if you don't like Looping but it's part of fundamental gameplay. If you're saying fundamental gameplay of Survivor is too much for most Survivors, I think maybe you should find another game.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860888#Comment_3860888
Edit: there was a wall of text here but you know what? no. just no.
Backing away from the conversation after typing a wall of text is a smart move when you have lost the debate. Respect.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860919#Comment_3860919
yeah it was uncalled for, youre right. I just lost my patience with all of the comments in every post just being passive aggressive, rude, people ignoring large swaths of discussions, or offering nothing to the discussions outside of being accusatory and meaningless. Thats all on me though, shouldnt take it out on the community cuz that just adds fuel to the fire.
Understandable but please know: People do not have the spoons to respond to every single post in the thread, people have their own opinions on things that could have nothing to do with your opinions, and most critically - Tone is really hard on the internet. It could be nothing more than people being bad at discussing stuff online.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860897#Comment_3860897
I think an AI victor that scouts and I can also swap too would be really fun. But that is my opinion, and yours is the opposite. So what is your opinion on how to make them more fun for both? Try to come at it from an unbiased "killer main" mindset please.
The last sentence was absolutely not necessary, shame on you for us vs. theming in a balance discussion to benefit both sides.
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Twins is a weird case where they aren't very good unless you play them comp effective. Playing Twins comp effective means slugging hardcore with Victor and ruining everyone's good time, there is zero strategy and thus it feels unrewarding.
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@bleep275 said:
I think the game is pretty well balanced in my opinion, and that the biggest problem in DBD is the community by far. The dedicated survivor mains and killer mains create a painfully unproductive bias for both sides. every update is "survivor sided game" or "killer sided game", like they both cant be true lmao. This tied to the rising competitive mindset and meta-slaves, is a recipe for a miserable time. People are so desperate to win that they employ the most toxic strategies to do so, as if their only sense of enjoyment and validity comes at the cost of sweeping the opposing side and making them want to uninstall. Were it not for the goofy survivor squads and the cute killers with personality, I would rank this community worse than LoL.
I wish there was a player rating system or separate queues to separate the comp kids and the people who just want to have fun.
I dont blame people for DCing as often i feel the desire too, especially when someone is being tunneled or ive been on the ground slugged for most of the match. Or when the killer is just trying to have a chill match but they're paired with swf bully squads or comp teams acting like its an Esports tournament.
I don't think someone should be forced to stay in a game that is making them miserable, I think the bots should just replace the person who quit and remove the DC penalty. Id rather a bot who will do gens, distract the killer, and break totems over someone who lets go on hook. If a killer wants to ruin somneones day by tunneling them out or making them unable to play by leaving them on the ground. Fine, they can do it with bots. Survivors aren't entitled to survive, but killers aren't entitled to their misery and vice versa.
TLTR: The issue is the sweats and comp kids
I pretty much agree with all of this, the issue is that the game is supposed to be casual and most people just wanna play a casual game, but the playerbase secretly is competitive and the game's design doesn't FEEL casual. Can you really blame people for becoming comp-minded in light of that?
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@JustElf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3854121#Comment_3854121
Lmao, saying that generator controlling is weak on Killer's side???
It got neutered because three Killers a year ago where too good at controlling gens and too many perks synergized to create an awful meta. Only about three Gen perks are considered meta strong, compare this to the multitude of ways Survivors can push gens faster, reduce charges, etc. There is even one that punishes the Killer for chasing the wrong Survivor with a buff to Survivor gen speed. That in addition to the fact Killers may only reduce the same gen 8 times, but Survivors can team up on Gens and bring items that boost repairs by up to 50-75%, then make those items last longer with charge adding items and recharge perks.
Meanwhile on Killer side you have Pain Res, Pop, Grim Embrace, and arguably Surge - then you have Corrupt Intervention which only really works on some Killers and is much better on setup Killers, and THEN you have everything else - hexes that spawn poorly, stuff that messes with timing on checks that no Survivor should mess up if they know what they're doing, and I guess that one Ghostface addon.
Yes, compared to what Survivors have been given to help with gens, what Killers have to help with gens is weaker. Arguably for the good reason that Killers overall are more powerful. Love how you cherrypicked the ONE item you wanted to use to make me look bad and ignored my other points, though…
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@SharonPancakes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435241/the-skurchent-nerfs-set-a-bad-precident
"We cannot, CANNOT keep asking BHVR to just nerf every Killer we find even mildly annoying to go against. Come on now, have some faith in your abilities."
Abilities have nothing to do with it, or should I say little to do with it. Nurse (and any of the many killers that were stronger than SM at her peak) do not make at least one survivor DC/quit every single game. No one wanted to play a match with her regardless on if they could win or not. The "bad precedent" was her existence.
Nurse is one Killer and I agree, she's overpowered and needs a nerf.
95% of the Killers in this game are not S or A tier.
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@Emeal said:
By this Logic no Killer would ever get nerfed, you are literally excusing away any bad gameplay problem as Survivors just needing more faith in their own abilities.
I think the main problem is that you refer to absurd gameplay as slightly and mildy infuriating, when its actually making people quit.
If they're quitting over basic gameplay this really isn't the game for them - I don't know of a SINGLE person who has pointed at Trapper and gone, "that guy is why I quit". Not one. I don't see a single person who has quit the game because Ghostface and Myers can 99 people. But I DO see people quitting because M2s can hit over tiles in ways that feel like free hits and the Survivor can't do anything about it, or because a Killer is really good at 3genning.
It is in fact, slightly and mildly infuriating only. If you're really super upset that Killers have mechanics that are MILDLY an inconvenience, if that really ruins your day, then put the game down and play another one that doesn't have that. Except oops, ALL games have some mild amount of annoying things in them because no game is perfect and especially not a game with a massive roster of characters. The same is true of Survivor perks, if you're really that mad over Blast Mine or whatever then put the game down for a bit.
As for other obnoxious stuff, BHVR not doing anything about it and even doubling down on it is proof it's meant to be part of the gameplay unfortunately. I wish it wasn't the case either. I really wish three gens couldn't pop in one chase and I didn't need to bring a perk to handle slugging. But BHVR has decided these things are a-okay parts of intended gameplay, because they have done absolutely nothing to stop them, which is as good as a green stamp of approval according to them.
By the way, copying this post to harass me with it on other parts of the forum by cherrypicking parts of it to make this post seem more Killer-sided than it actually was SO obviously intended to be? Is creepy, weird, childish, and honestly harassment. Don't you seriously have anything more engaging to do? A life? A family to spend the Holidays with, anything better?
Shame on you for turning this into us vs. them, and every post I make into us vs. them.
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@CursedPerson said:
'''What on earth happened to us as Survivor players, the same ones who lived through 3Gen meta? Survivors used to believe in learning tiles and counterplay, using synergy, and TRYING. Where did that go? '''
~80% of the tiles on the maps are now 50/50s there is no learning tiles. you make very little distance now after hits if theres been an uptick complaining about wraith its cuz maps offer very little safety nowadays which make wraiths power even stronger as they can use their power to hit around most of the pallets very easily
Survivors used to know these ancient techniques called mindgames and checkspots around 50/50s. That IS how you learn tiles. That's what you do with tiles. The tiles didn't change, they didn't go away, there's just less of them. I still see TLs, strong pallets, shack, god pallets, strong Mains, and more. Nothing changed, there's just less of them, and nobody is willing to make the effort to LEARN how to use these tools properly, instead they would rather Hold W and cry.
I'm getting sick of the victim complex some people in this community have. It's from both sides. But I am more than willing to point out when the side I play more does it more. The answer isn't to nerf every Killer and buff maps, the answer is to nerf the problem Killers and adjust the maps for everyone else.
Horror games are not supposed to be safe. Horror games are not supposed to be easy. Dead by Daylight is, on paper, a horror game, a survival horror game even, whether it scares you or not.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860586#Comment_3860586
It's popular these days to overplay how "bad" tiles have become. Just because every tile doesn't have 2 long sides, like some tiles that still exist in Coldwind and Eyrie, doesn't mean you can't run them. If the killer gets you there with Bloodlust, big deal. Them getting to Bloodlust just to get you every time is so much a time positive for you, it's not even funny. And that's the underlying message, what I'm reading between the lines: We should be able to 1v1 the killer for 3-5 gens at any given tile set-up.
Call me nuts but aren't most "bad" tiles just tiles that:
- aren't easily connected
- aren't infinites, or
- require a bit more skill to use?
I feel like a lot of the kvetching over things right now are people complaining that Survivor is no longer the power role. Good. It was never supposed to be. You are not supposed to never go down in chase. You are not supposed to waste so much time the Killer has no chance to make any sort of a comeback. Every single survey for the past year when the Devs asked, "what is most important in a round?" everyone answered chase and now we're seeing the fruits of those labors, and people somehow don't like that they're getting exactly what we all asked for.
I promise that a good Survivor can still use the tiles we have now and do just fine. I am a mediocre Survivor and yet with the right map knowledge and combo of perks, I can still do just fine and escape just fine. You really aren't supposed to be able to run a Killer for five gens just because the tiles are super easily chained like they were in the past, you never were supposed to be able to and BHVR agrees with this take. It's not coming back, it's a matter of re-learning tiles. I'm sorry if this angers anyone, but that's just the hard truth and it's something we're all gonna need to get used to, because no matter how much they shake up the meta the maps will always be problematic in one way or another and so many Maps have been so difficult for so many Killers for so long, this is how they HAVE to balance them - neutering them to the point of balance or worse. They often, in pursuit of this, create maps like Haddonfield and Rotten Fields, which are just nightmares, and then ignore maps like Gideon or Eyrie that suck hardcore on Killer side.
About 25% of the complaining is about stuff like this that can be adjusted for and does not matter. The rest of the complaining, the real complaining about stuff that matters, is about things like slugging, genrushing, Killers that need updates, etc. You know, things that actually are problematic in the game.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860453#Comment_3860453
given how you responded to me in the other thread i see no reason to explain anything to you whatsoever. you wear your bias on your face and seem to suffer from balance-brain.
Frankly everyone has bias and you have never seen my face, my guy.
"Balance bad" - that's a new one, I've never met a single person upset that others have asked for Killers and Survivors to be balanced. Like, not one.
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I just want Ghostface's Reveal and Lean to be fixed and be fair, and then I want him to have an addon pass and some sort of slight buff. Chaseface isn't fun, reward him for using his power.
I also lowkey think we need to simplify pipping and wins, since it's just a measure of how much you played anyway - it makes no sense to make it harder to pip in Iri than in Silver… at all. Why is it harder the more you play? Proposal:
- Pips are no longer tied to emblems or BP gain, but the categories remain - they're just unlinked and no longer matter.
- One Pip and 20k BP for participating in the round win or lose.
- Two Pips and another 10k BP on top of the above for Escaping, getting at least one Mori, or 3-4king (so winning).
- No pip and 0 BP if you DC or give up on Hook from first Hook.
- Everyone dead before a gen is done, or out before the Killer could Kill one person? 10k BP for everyone, no pip for everyone, because that wasn't a round.
- Out really fast because the Killer's a jerk? Everyone left is bots? 10k BP as an apology for having your time wasted, but no pip.
- The remaining 10k BP comes from using your power, doing stuff in the round that isn't just your objective, etc.
- Survivors and Killers earn BP at the same exact rate, Survivors don't split BP between the whole team.
- MMR gain and loss is the EXACT SAME, if you lose one round then win one round you break even. If you lose a lot of rounds you go down, and win a lot of rounds you go up, making it easier to get out of low MMR hell for Survs and high MMR hell for Killers.There.Now nobody is upset. Everyone loves BP. This way you can't point to any excuses, because everyone gets progress and BP. Nobody can ever complain about genrush, slugging, camping, tunnelling, etc. again because no matter what, you get something.
Because that's apparently all the playerbase can handle, I guess. Ultracasual scoring as long as they get their fair BP.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858894#Comment_3858894
No, this is just trying to make your point when you're objectively wrong. The hunter had abilities toward the game's end of life like instantly killing the survivors. The devs tuned the game more and more for the hunter to be more powerful, which both sound disturbingly familiar.
The survivors quit because of balance. The hunters had all the tools and power in that game and basically had no reason to quit unless it was out of boredom.
I played during that time.
My take is my take, and it's correct from what I saw.
I am not wrong just because you disagree with me. Truth doesn't care about your opinion, and the truth is Survivors quit for the same reasons Killers quit… because it wasn't fun.