SidneysBane1996
SidneysBane1996
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@[Deleted User] said:
ghostface, trapper, and (specifically) hit and run playstyle wraith are all anti-player interaction. their whole point is to reduce chase time passively with little skill involved (or in ghostface's case, actively with an asterisk that you can just 99 people for later and revealing only delays (or speeds up because the mechanic is objectively busted) the inevitable). skull merchant was the same way, except she also got a bunch of passive speed chase buffs that made her particularly miserable to go against. that's just the way they're designed. most people don't like that kind of anti-interaction, almost downright pve design in their pvp videogame.
it's the same reason why people complain about invisible light players in the finals even though lights are weak at a high level…it's simply not all that fun getting stunned & one shot constantly by people you couldn't even see. sure there are things you can do to prevent it, but then you get into issues of forcing people to use things/tactics they don't necessarily enjoy just to counter another thing that they don't enjoy. if enough of that is in the game then people will just quit. especially casual players who are indifferent to the idea of trying hard to adapt, or solo queue players who can try all they want to adapt but can't control the teammates they get paired up with.
maybe you'd stop seeing posts about directly nerfing said killers if we, as a community, could learn to separate the idea of balance from design (and furthermore design theory/intent from practice). but that's liable to make me go off on an unhinged tangent so I'll leave it at that.
And all of this is different from M2s who can hit over pallets… how? I don't see how.
M1 Killers have never been problematic, learn looping again. It served its purpose for 7 years, you can't learn it again now when the resources still exist because… why again?
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@Masterninja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858904#Comment_3858904
Yeah, I nerfed some parts of the killers… and at the same time I compensated that by buffing other things. That was the point, nerfing the annoying stuff and buffing the healthy parts of the killer powers to encourage more dynamic gameplay. Do I need to enumerate the amount of buffs and nerfs?
Clown: 1 medium nerf / 2 medium and 2 small buffs
Legion: 1 big nerf / 4 medium buffs
Singularity: 1 big nerf / 4 medium buffs
Nemesis: 2 small nerfs / 1 medium and 1 small buff
Dredge: 2 small nerfs / 1 medium and 2 big buffs
Trapper: 1 medium nerf / 2 medium and 1 huge buff
Xenomorph: 1 medium and 2 small nerfs / 1 big, 1 medium and 1 small buff
If you can't actually explain how all these changes are downright straight nerfs then don't bother say anything, cause you know nothing.
The rudeness wasn't needed just because I disagreed with you, I have a life outside of these forums. Why would I respond to you instantly? It's not Twitter…
I still do not see how any of these are really buffs, and to be fair there's A LOT of everyone complaining about literally every Killer on the forums right now. Yours looks like that. My apologies for misintrpreting.
But the rudeness and calling me ignorant just because I didn't insta-reply in a nanosecond was not necessary.
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@Na1ts1rhc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858722#Comment_3858722
There's a lot of this in the community right now. Survivors unwilling to adapt to change rather make a fuss about it and it works because if one side stops playing the game is no more. Obviously it goes both ways but I feel like historically (Don't quote me on this) killers have taken nerfs a lot better than survivors. This Chucky thing is really bringing people down however so… We'll see
I'm seeing this constantly and it frustrates me. Have we really become so spineless as Survivor players that we're saying C TIER M1 KILLERS are too much? I don't get it, not even in the depths of the 3gen meta have I seen THIS much complaining. What happened to Survivors, is everyone OK? Is this a symptom of new players coming in? Is there a gas leak?
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@Oputeeva said:
true reveal thing needs a good rework, because it's unfair when nothing happens when directly stared at him, other things are fine, also 99 stalking should also not exist it's not fair to get 1 hit out of nowhere
If 99 stalking isn't problematic on Myers, it's not problematic on Ghostface. If holding hatchets and holding M2s on other Killers is not problematic, then 99ing as Ghostface is not problematic.
In fact it should be more encouraged, as it's considered skillful Ghostface Play and should IMHO gain you more points or benefits if you use Stalking well, Ghostface has always had this problem where he misses out on some points because he's not supposed to chase a whole lot. THAT is what isn't fair. I can 4k as him and get 20k points spreading hooks because I simply. Never. Get. Any. Chase, and using his power alone isn't enough. There is a TRADEOFF for how powerful 99ing can be.
Reveal him before he does that, that's the intended counterplay to 99ing. He can't do anything if you force him out of Shroud and make him hit you, he loses all the stalk. It's fair, it has counterplay, and the Devs will never remove it.
You need to learn to play around it. He's been here since 2019.
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I agree with some of these but Bloodlust has to stay as long as M1 Killers don't have any way to move fast or catch up easily.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858712#Comment_3858712
This game is so killer sided at this point that even if the killer had no power or perks and was literally only an m1 killer, the kill rate would probably still no go under 50 percent. So I will say things like skull merchant and chucky nerf are actually the only evidence we have that Bhvr. cares about survivor players at all. Hopefully we'll have a lot more nerfs.
Why do you doubt your ability so much, you think an M1 Killer with no power and no perks is too strong? And BHVR doesn't care? Really? When we just got one of the strongest Survivor perks in Shoulder the Burden EVER?
I really think you just want to always win and never have any challenge with a claim like that. You must be joking. You have to be joking. You cannot think that Survivor players as a whole are this incapable, you're trolling you are ACTUALLY TROLLING.
Maybe this isn't the game for you if you literally cannot even handle a powerless, perkless M1 Killer at the most basic of loops, man. Survivors deserve to be treated like they have skill and this game deserves Killers that have powers that can challenge that skill. Why do you want the game to be Barney and Friends, I'll never understand people like you.
If you seriously want EVERY KILLER even the weakest ones so nerfed, Survivors never lose a game again, this is not the game for you. There are many games where you can guaranteed win every time but a multiplayer versus game IS NOT IT and I thank every deity you're not on the balance team, because with takes like this one the game would be dead in the water in under a year.
It's genuinely so upsetting that you have so little faith in your skill as Survivor that you have to claim even the weakest of Killers are OP, and it's genuinely also clear this game is too spicy for you and you can't handle it because you for some reason have a need to hardcore dominate every single Survivor game because you cannot stand the thought of ever losing to even a weak Killer.
I genuinely think after seeing your post history that you won't be happy unless all the much needed buffs to every Killer are reverted, every Killer is rendered a simple M1 chase machine that is there solely for your amusement and never challenges you in any way, things go back to the time when Killers quit en masse because the game was so stacked in Survivors' favor they didn't want to play at all, and then also give Survivors more extra buffs on top of all that. You seem to genuinely want this to be some sort of game where you can beat up on the Killer Friday the 13th the Game style, I don't think even the 2v8 buffs being brought to 1v4 would satisfy your weird need to team up with people to stomp some poor schmo just trying to have fun with a Killer they enjoy into the ground.
We do not and never should have room for that sort of one sided stomp in this game, period ever. I pray something so heinously unfair never becomes a part of the game again.
I don't understand it, but you seem really unhappy and like you don't want to be playing with takes like this one. If that's the case, then please, I beg of you, leave the Fog and find something more your speed, because it's not fair to anyone Survivors included to pretend that all Survivors are so helpless that even a basic M1 Killer is too spicy for us. It's absolutely ludicrous and it's insulting, you do not speak for us.
Stop insulting us as players, and stop insulting yourself. You're better than this, you deserve more dignity than this. And if you really think you don't, please stop playing this game you clearly aren't enjoying. Please. For your sake.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858901#Comment_3858901
1 I mean his speed while hes cloaked, its 6 m/s and its problematic cause he can short distance after sprint burst and lithe like in 2-3 sec. and its very problematic if Wraith wants to tunnel.
4 Bad ping against most killers is fine, just dont be greedy with pallets. But on Wraith and Huntress it shows a problem with unfair hit like never before.
And i have no problem with stealth killers cause Ghostface, Myers, Pig and Sadako my favourite killers to go against. Its just Wraith that is completly overbuffed after this years specially if compare him with this killers. Pig is slow in stealth mode and make very loud noise when ambush. With Ghostface you can literally denied his power plus hes basic m1 killer. Sadako doesnt have insane speed, cant bodyblocking and have lullaby. With Myers you can delay his power by breaking line of sight, he has no mobility and just pure m1 killer. And then its Wraith who have everything (stealth, speed, anti-loop, good addons and map mobility)
A Killer being able to counter two strong Survivor Perks is not now nor has it ever been a problem. One Perk should not counter a whole class of Killers, period, ever. You should not be relying on a Perk to save you.
Ping is again, not the Killer's fault. It's a server issue and BHVR's fault. I just explained this. There's nothing the Killer can do to make it "more fair" when the Server itself is the problem, BHVR needs to fix the server not nerf the Killer. I also find it frustrating that I can be hit by a pallet from like five feet away from it because of ping lag, do I blame the Survivors? Of course not. It's not their fault at all.
Nobody is randomly abusing ping on JUST Huntress and Wraith, they never have been. They don't control that, they literally have no control over that. The fact you think they're using these Killers knowing it's some sort of unfair advantage is actually so confusing because nobody picks the Killer they play that way, this is not an advantage you can knowingly take advantage of without a VPN.
Since you seem to be not reading let me break it down for you:
- Perks are not one size fits all solutions for every situation nor should they be. It's fine that Wraith can counter Chase perks, sorta like how Ghostface can counter Killer Aura reading perks.
- BHVR designed him to be a mix of speed and stealth. He is a chasedown Stealth Killer, and his Lunge from Uncloak isn't much different than if the Killer had Coup de Grace.
- Nothing about being able to lunge further is actually an issue, because he loses the uncloak speed while uncloaking. He loses Bloodlust this way too.
- He can be countered with awareness of his Cloaking and by not greeding loops. Being able to use it this way is actually considered skillful Wraith play, not a bug and not problematic. Your feelings do not apply here.
- You can counter Wraith the same way you do any Killer that can hit through pallets like this: don't be greedy with Pallets and be aware of where he's coming from when you hear him Cloak, because him being able to use his lunge this way is intended and considered a mark of skillful Wraith Play. That means you shouldn't be camping pallets when he's Cloaked.
- He cannot, literally cannot turbo-lunge with his speed boost outside of Cloak, he just can't.
- Wraith doesn't have that many "skillful" tools, his haste and stealth are his power. You can still always loop him, by the way.
Need anymore help or does that about help you with your clear struggles against Wraith? I'm here to reiterate how to counter him and teach you if you need it, because he's actually one of the easiest to counter if you pay attention.
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What on earth is with the needless asking for Nerfs for perfectly fine, balanced, functional Killers?
You do all realize if you ask for nerfs like these they will just buff other more annoying parts of their powers, right? You all know you're not entitled to ask for Killers to be destroyed just because you successfully all got Skurchent made useless, right?
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He's still B tier, you're all fine.
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@Gardhome said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858893#Comment_3858893
- He is insanely fast in his stealth mode that can completely ignore every survivors haste perk
- Unfair and busted speed boost after uncloaking that makes all loops unsafe and can get guaranteed hit every single time
- Op addons that makes him from slightly annoying killer to very painful to face (specially Coxcombed Clapper, "All Seeing" - Spirit and "Shadow Dance" - Blood)
- He is very ping dependant killer just like Huntress (if you have a bad ping against this 2 killers you screwed)
- Wraith is biggest tunneler and camper and hes power has perfect synergy with this strategy.
- Bodyblocking that is very easy with his insane speed at 6 m/s.
- He is stealth killer with no downside (no reveal mechanic, no lullaby, insane speed, very sneaky - if gen is around 80% and more hes noises almost unnoticable and bell with iri addon is complete silent, so you have no idea hes coming until its to late).
There's some serious misconceptions here. Wraith was my first Main and my starter Killer, I have played him off and on for a bit over three years now, and Mained Stealth Killers as a whole for about that long too. If anyone can tell you how these are wrong, and how you're misunderstanding Stealth Killers as a whole, it's me.
- Incorrect. That's actually intentional, he's supposed to have a haste boost. He has always had a haste boost and it's always been considered fair before. This is because it's a 3% boost he can only access in Cloak, he cannot get it while he's out of Cloak and he loses it while decloaking, it's really only useful in loops to force a 50/50, and for map traversal. Neither of these are broken or unintended parts of the game.
- Incorrect. Just because a Killer can make loops unsafe doesn't make them busted, you know that right? I see how it's frustrating in practice, but that's actually how you're supposed to play Wraith. He's supposed to be able to use his power to make loops less powerful by cutting people off in Stealth and with speed. Many other Killers can do that and most of them can do it better than Wraith can.
- Sorta Correct. I agree he needs an addon pass, but both of those addons really aren't that problematic and could frankly be basekitted if they ever wanted to buff him. All they really do is slightly alter how quickly he can move while using his power; both can be countered by the simple tactic of prerunning and being aware of his tells. This is perfectly balanced as long as you use your counterplay properly.
- Incorrect. That's not his fault whatsoever, that's BHVR's fault for having crappy servers. You can't blame the Killer for something that is on BHVR's end. Wraith has no control over this, and no - it's not just all Wraith Players using a VPN. That's not very common practice for his playerbase, which is mostly newcomers and people who don't want to think too hard as Killer.
- Incorrect, but not for the reasons you think it's incorrect. I won't argue that his playerbase is full of newbies and kinda jerkass players. A Killer being good at tactics you find problematic does not make the Killer problematic. Twins is good at slugging, but not every Twins plays that way. Wesker is good at Tunnelling, but not every Wesker plays that way. The same is true of Wraith. He's good at tunnelling and camping, but that's not the way every Wraith plays and not a flaw with the Killer whatsoever. It's a feature not a bug that some Killers do some things better.
- Incorrect. Bodyblocking is something every Killer can do, this is not inherently special to Wraith. Pig can also use her dash like this to bodyblock, is Pig an issue? Ghostface can come from nowhere in Stealth to cut off like this, is he an issue? If they are not issues, how is Wraith a problem? Because he's fast? That's his form of antiloop and it's actually intentional, skillful play on the Wraith's part to use his Cloak to do this, it's something called a tech. It's the only tech he has, actually. Besides, having antiloop is a feature, not a bug, and certainly isn't problematic. The Devs intend for him to be able to do this.
- Incorrect. He does like every Killer have a downside, that being he slows down while uncloaking, and he growls constantly to tell you where he is. He telegraphs he's coming quickly by both sound and visual, BTW. The gens creating noise and hiding Killer noises is intentional game design by the Devs and is part of the game - it's a feature not a bug, and it works that way for every Stealth Killer not just Wraith. You can make a case for Coxcombed Clapper being a bit troublesome, but he has a tell for that anyway too - notice when he moves, he makes the air around him shimmer; this shimmer is only absent when he stands still. The counter to Wraith is not nothing, the counter to Wraith as with any Stealth Killer is prerunning and vigilance. That's literally all you have to do to render him ineffective. Just loop him while your friends crank gens. He's just an M1 Killer after all.
I beg of you, play Wraith yourself and see where his weaknesses are by playing enough. You will take every single one of these back. He's one of the least problematic Killers with what happens to be an annoying playerbase. None of that is enough to call for nerfs, and he most certainly isn't OP when his stealth and mobility are not even the best in the game.
Just because you have to pay attention to a Killer does not make them broken. It just means you have trouble with Stealth Killers, there's no shame in that. If you'd like pointers (since you seem new because you think Wraith is OP), I'm more than willing to get in Customs with you and practice looping, noticing Stealth Killers, etc. I am happy to help, DMs are open. :)
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
Give Killers basekit Deerstalker. When I slug I survivor to apply pressure, I have every intention of going back to hook them eventually. But most of the time, the survivor crawls away to a hiding spot or obscure corner of the map so I can't find them. I'm not going to waste a whole bunch of time trying to find them if I can't find them right away. It's pretty irritating that survivor players complain about being bled out for 4 minutes while many of them intentionally make it difficult for the killer to find them after they've been downed. I think a good percentage of players being bled out are due to the killer not wanting to take the time to find them. Giving killers basekit Deerstalker would make it quicker/easier to find downed survivors and I think would significantly reduce slugging. If after 3-6 months the data shows that it's not effective, then revert the change and try something else. But at least it's worth a try.
I would very much support basekit Deerstalker if a Survivor is down too long, just like I support a faster bleedout timer. Ghostface is currently the only Killer, thanks to Killer Instinct and how Night Shroud works, that has a basekit Deerstalker like this to find downed Survivors who crawl away and hide or get lost. I think every Killer should have that.
I'm sorry if I have to leave you down for a long time. I don't like to, but there's cases I need to. I want to hook, I have every intention to come back and hook. Crawling away just prolongs the game for everyone needlessly; I really do just want to come back and hook.
Not even that long ago I was playing a Pinhead round where I downed an Ash and then went for a Meg nearby. I was aiming for Meg and hit him instead, not long after he was unhooked. I didn't mean to make it look like a tunnel but he was in the way of me getting Meg. I had every intention to give Ash the Hatch, I wanted Meg out because she contributed nothing to the round - hid all round in fact and it got her team massacred. I thought I was doing the Ash, who was a good player and very funny, a favor. Instead, he decided to crawl into the foliage and hide from me so I couldn't find him and give him the hatch. I wasn't playing mean, I didn't mean to bleed him or even slug him. He just was in the wrong spot when I swung my weapon and went down, and I was more interested in helping vindicate him with what I saw as a problematic player who got his team killed. He instead assumed I slugged him and rewarded my kind act of trying to help end the game faster and punish a problem player by choosing to waste both our times, for utterly no reason.
This sort of thing should never, ever happen. Period.
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@Hex_Llama said:
I felt like the survey questions didn't really touch on the scenarios where it's most annoying. Which, to me, are scenarios where slugging people is a way of needlessly drawing out a match you have already won. Like slugging all four survivors and refusing to hook them, or standing over a slug until they're just about to die and then hooking them anyway so the match can't be over.
But maybe the devs already understand why that's annoying so they were asking about more ambiguous scenarios.
To me, those ARE the only cases where something can be considered toxic slugging, which let's be honest… is the only kind that really needs to be addressed and eliminated the way fcecamping was.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858886#Comment_3858886
White I don't think the game is dying, and we get one of these posts every few months here, there is one thing to point out:
The rest of your post, specifically:
It's mathematically impossible for there to ever be so few Survivors the game dies
and the surrounding argument is simply false on just about every level.
Other asymmetric have have failed, many (almost all) in fact. It's why DbD has effectively zero competition most of the time, except for a few months when a new asymm game tries and then disappears again.
The best, and most relevant example being a different game by BHVR called death garden: where one "Hunter" (killer) went up against 4 scavengers (survivor) trying to escape.
That game died due to balance, specifically they made the killer role too powerful, and the game died because no one wanted to play "survivor". A complete counter example to most of your post.
Let's be honest, the main thing keeping DbD afloat is licensing. Flat out. And that's 100% supported by player counts.
But the reason it failed is not, IS NOT because "enough Survivors quit".
It's because the experience was so wildly imbalanced, everyone on all sides quit. BHVR doesn't have that issue. If anything its been working on balancing BETTER over time.
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@Gardhome said:
Im agree with Wraith hes totally needs a huge nerf, but everyone else - no, they not op and mostly needs a buff (specially ghosty and trapper)
I very seriously want to know how you think Wraith, the most basic of basic Killers, needs a nerf when his entire power is just chase (his Stealth overall isn't all that good because he gives himself away)?
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@Adrien said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435179/ghost-face-should-be-nerfed
Revealing GhostFace is already a counter for him. He wasted time to stalk survivors. Losing progress over time is very punishing.
If you are "99'd" and reveals him you have time to run to safety before he gets his power back and exposes you.
Why would you nerf a weak killer that struggles ?
Because they're spoiled from getting Skurchent, who was totally reworked, nerfed and now they think they can get any Killer they find even remotely slightly too spicy also nerfed, too. We're seeing it in real time.
If Ghostface is nerfed in this manner without any regard to how it affects his delicate stalk timing gameplay, then he would have to be hardcore buffed EVERYWHERE ELSE to compensate and make him viable. They would have to give him antiloop, mobility, AND haste to even remotely compensate for nerfing him by making this counter so strong against him, otherwise his killrates would plummet well below what BHVR wants and nobody would ever play him. He's already not a common pick, how often are you really seeing Ghostface after you hit a certain MMR?
Not only is this counter to his intended character necessary for his gameplay loop, not only would nerfing it upset people who enjoy his gameplay, it would literally make Survivors unhappier because he'd just be another overly buffed Haste-applied M1 Killer. I thought we all agreed no more random added Haste?
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@JPLongstreet said:
Haven't seen a thread strongly complaining about Doc in years.
The most skillful Doctors have become expert at denying pallet drops and vaults with his power, making them dangerous in chase. Imo this is more effective than skillcheck builds or his excellent tracking.
Get used to it, more and more people who have been spoiled by BHVR caving to the cries for Skurchent to be nerfed HARDCORE even when she was fine and had multiple fixes to make her fair have brought people like this out of the woodwork.
Other Killers seeing complaints on these forums lately for no reason due to their abilities being called "too good/too annoying to learn counterplay for":
- Ghostface
- Wraith
- Singularity
- Houndmaster
- Myers
- Trapper (yes really I have seen TRAPPER hate in the past few months
- Sadako
- Freddy (slated for a buff and rework)
- Dracula (even after his nerfs)
- Chucky (even after repeated nerfs
- Xenomorph
- Legion (AGAIN)
- Clown (AGAIN)
- and now Doctor
Notice how with the exception of Xeno, Chucky, Singu, and Drac, ALL of those Killers are fairly weaker M1s who have buggy mechanics, have been buffed in the past year or so, or are too new to really have learned their counterplay. Notice also how several are ones people just generally find annoying for no reason other than historical ones.
What has happened to us as players where we're looking at bottom of the barrel Killers and deciding they're too spicy?
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@doobiedo said:
I just hope that enough survivors will stop playing eventually that Bhvr. will have to make both sides on a more even playing field.
I promise you there will always be more than enough Survivors to keep the game going no matter what, because there's always four times as many Survivors as Killers. It's mathematically impossible for there to ever be so few Survivors the game dies, the entire and I mean ENTIRE Survivor playerbase would need to quit overnight and that's just not feasible. Therefore a bunch of Survivors quitting will not do anything meaningful whatsoever, unlike the time when a lot of Killers quit because Survivors were genuinely too powerful. They stayed during 3gen meta and nothing happened. They stayed during facecamping existing and nothing happened. They stayed when Killers were given stuff like TotH buffed too much, and nothing happened. Nothing changed. It never has, it never will.
The reason it worked for Killers quitting but never does when Survivors sabre-rattle about quitting en masse is because it's a 1v4. If the whole side of the game that only has one per four players is unhappy, the whole game suffers. If the whole side of the game with four times as many people in a queue has even 25% of people annoyed at the game enough to quit, that doesn't matter because there's always more people who come in later for events/modes, free weekends, etc. and there's always people who just don't care enough and will play anyway… there's four times as many. You can therefore afford to lose even half of the current Survivor playerbase and it will still not grind the game to such a halt it's an issue.
We saw this in action with 2v8, where everyone wanted to play Killer and it ruined queue times. It literally does not matter as much how many Survivors you have, Killer retention is much more important. You can replace a Surv with a bot. and functionally nothing changes, as proven by them trying to add bots in player lobbies to quicken queues (which thank god they did not do). You can't replace a Killer with a bot.
If Survivor sucks, the only issue is slightly longer queue times. If Killer sucks, you have no game because Killer simply determines game pacing more.
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@bleep275 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858747#Comment_3858747
yes it does, and i don't argue that. however, at the start of the slugging meta the rate of players leaving as accelerated and the wave is less pronounced with a smaller cleft. Relative to previous years this variation is worse and with a steeper drop off. not saying the game is dead or dieing im saying the recent behavior and metas of the game are causing problems with player retention.
If players didn't quit en masse during the 3Gen meta to the point it killed the game, Slugging being a massive problem like it is also isn't going to kill the game. There is no player count drop. You're cherrypicking data.
Stop the disingenuous fearmongering. Nobody's falling for it.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/435179/ghost-face-should-be-nerfed
First time i heard someone call Ghostface OP but it wouldn't surprise if he gets a nerf
Man if they actually nerf a Killer so weak that his only power IS stealth, I will seriously, SERIOUSLY lose faith in this game and its entire playerbase.
HOW is the mechanic you can counter with your eyes too spicy for people? Literally how? I can only see it as one of two things:
- Survivors are in 2024/2025 SO bad at the game and so unskilled, they genuinely need the entire game dumbed down for them for every single Killer even the most basic ones, which I personally don't believe for a second, or
- There is for some reason a dedicated hate campaign over a KIller that doesn't deserve it because the Skurchent nerfs set a terrible precedent, and now people expect that BHVR will simply nerf to uselessness ANY Killer people even have a slight quibble with, which is what I believe is happening.
How do we live in a version of this game where GHOSTFACE is too OP, but Nurse is considered OK and Chucky is somehow considered nerfed to oblivion? Literally HOW did we all get this unconfident in our ability to play?
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858712#Comment_3858712
Oh but killers get mad and pissy when people chase them with flashlights and say they do not want to stay on gens🤣.Please try again that point is so moot and it only proves more hypocrisy of killers. Here is an example=we complain of tunneling, killers=run off the record/ds=we use it=its being abused. Shall I go on? So saying someone should be following ghost face revealing him all the time is no different than someone chasing a killer with a flashlight for a save and killers should not be annoyed by that then.
The us vs. them was not necessary and adds nothing to this discussion.
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@BugReporterOnly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858722#Comment_3858722
He isn't balanced imo he has too many ways to stalk. Leaning and crouching or leaning while standing one or the other and he can still stalk in chase and while standing without leaning at a distance like Myers. I think first he needs his reveal mechanic reworked then based on that buff him if needed.
"The stalker is too good at the one thing he can do" isn't a valid complaint and I think you know that. Come on now… learning line of sight cannot be that hard. I don't for one second believe you're so helpless, so stupid, so unskilled, or so incapable of using your eyes and ears to counter a basic M1 Killer. Have a little faith in yourself.
And everyone who upvoted you should be just as ashamed. Like, seriously, the number of upvotes you have is SHAMEFUL and alarming, surely people don't think they're so bad at this game they need to have every single slightly annoying element whitewashed and gently removed from the game until all that's left is a bland pablum of an M1 Killer that can't do anything but chase, right? Do you or anyone who upvoted you really think you, other Survivors, and people who like playing this character deserve to have the Killer entirely destroyed this way? Really? For an M1 Killer who has no chase pressure, no antiloop, and no map traversal at all?
This is where we're at. A Killer that has NOTHING but stealth and an instant down is too hard for people now. I cannot believe how far players have fallen in self confidence when someone like Dracula is considered fine but nah, Ghostface is too much. Just honestly so, so sad that nobody has the confidence to do the simplest counterplay anymore and would rather complain about stuff that is honestly, WAY worse on so many other Killers. Oni and Billy have antiloop and speed with their instant down, Chucky and Wraith have stealth with their chase potential, but Ghostface with only those two things and who is weaker than all four in all respects is unfair?
Are we all okay?
His Lean mechanic is actually broken right now, and needs to be fixed. He's unable to lean on things he's supposed to be able to, and it's been this way since Blight's collision was fixed. And Stalking in chase was no problem before, so why is it a problem now?
I agree his Reveal needs to be more consistent on both ends. It's unfair to be revealed behind walls when you're actually hiding, but neither should he be right in front of you and not able to be revealed. I think it actually is to do with ping and it's a problem with how ping works.
I reiterate: Ghostface is not unfair nor is he the problem. His mechanics are not the problem. All the glitches with the mechanics, and the fact he really could stand some buffs in general and a Reveal workover, ARE. THAT is what needs changing, but if you simply take those away or neuter them too much all you will have is a D tier Killer who can't DO anything or worse, another Skull Merchant rework situation, and an extremely unhappy fanbase (a quite large one, this character is generally beloved by the community).
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The issue is they can't buff it anymore, or else it will become too strong, but as is they are really risky niche perks. I think most of Taurie's perks are in the same boat actually.
And I think this is totally fine to do, actually. It's fine for the strong perks to be niche, if they're not then they create overly strong metas.
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
I generally play by the standard criteria you listed but if I play against a team I find particularly skilled, I'll feel like a 2k or even a 1k was a win for how hard the fight was and how close I was to more.
Honestly depends for me. Sometimes if I am very chill I go for no more than 2k as a general rule, but even then I still want to 2hook the others. Just give me those 2hooks, and I'm happy to let half of you go. :)
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@AlexXHunter44 said:
In most events Id agree but there are just no real side objectives in this one so people are going to play it like the normal game with an occasional snowball fight.
This is the big issue, there's not enough unique or new to do to warrant this event having its own queue.
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The playerbase tends to follow a rough sine wave, this is pretty normal for it.
The game's fine, can we stop the doomposting?
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This mechanic badly is due for a rework and some serious fixing. I want BHVR to seriously consider doing some MASSIVE fixes to Ghostface, his reveal mechanic, his leaning, and his power level in 2025. He's been around since year 3. He's currently weaker than Myers. He struggles without specific perks. DO SOMETHING.
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@BugReporterOnly said:
I agree something needs to be done but before going that far they need to fix his broken reveal mechanic. I can be staring at him and have no reveal then I can reveal him even if he hides behind an object or I hide behind one. If they fix it it might be more difficult to 99 in the first place. Also to all you jerks saying no get the hell out of here. You are using a broken ass killer and you aren't even backing it up with anything because you can't.
So why do you find it so hard to loop an M1 Killer? Asking for a friend.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858237#Comment_3858237
how do you even know which killers will never be added to 2v8?
We just know that licensed killers may need additional approval by the license holder…
Frankly I'm not holding my breath on being able to play Myers, Pinhead, Pig, Sadako, or Nemesis in the mode any time soon. Maybe Ghostface. Definitely Dredge.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3857807#Comment_3857807
Agreed, the DbD community is actually pretty awesome. I used to play LoL, but got tired of the amount of toxicity in the community. By comparison to league, DbD is like a friendly, supportive book club.
I get kindness, ggs, and sweet interactions even if I play super hard all the time. People just want a chance to play the game. Actually I think it's gotten better over time since you can't lose pips.
9/10 times I am not getting toxicity as Killer, I am getting it as Survivor. And when I do, it's usually from other Survs. Have you noticed this?
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@Na1ts1rhc said:
Based
I'm just sick of the needless whining over people unwilling to learn how to play against my Main when he's nearly perfectly balanced and the only things wrong with him are some mechanics jank that could be fixed, plus maybe a bit more QoL. He's not a problem, never has been, never will be.
People need to learn to play against the Killers instead of begging for handholds.
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Using addons isn't toxic.
Using addons isn't toxic.
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@buggybug said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858506#Comment_3858506
So a person should not be doing gens but wasting time following him, wow just wow.
There is more to Dead by Daylight than just sitting on gens, popping them all in five minutes, and leaving, yes. We call engaging with Killers and their powers counterplay. Counterplay makes the game fun.
Interactivity is key. This is easy interactivity. Why is it hard to grasp that you need to play different ways against different Killers, do you just want gen repair sim? I don't.
The Skull Merchant nerfs set an AWFUL precedent. Now people think that if they whine enough, BHVR will nerf Killers they don't like because the mechanics are too spicy or broken in a way BHVR for some reason REFUSES to ever look at despite it being annoying for both sides. You cannot have your cake and eat it too just because a Killer has a power, you need to try in the video game.
Asking for nerfs on a Killer because a mechanic they literally don't control is annoying is like asking for your mashed potatoes to be separate from your chicken because maybe a green bean will accidentally fall into them and you don't like green beans. You're asking for a bland basic experience you don't need to try in AND asking to never have any Killer be an inconvenience ever, oh, sorry to bother your gen repair session my bad I forgot Killers aren't supposed to have powers.
My bad. I guess I just expected my opponents to learn the relatively simple counterplay of literally staring at me, but if staring at me is too hard then Hello Kitty Island is on sale, I hear.
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Ahaha, no, they're not going to nerf him. If anything they will buff him further. This is because Ghostface is already balanced; the only thing Ghostface needs is a Reveal rework that makes it better for both sides, and his lean fixed. He's otherwise a very fair Killer if you have eyes, ears, and situational awareness. He literally only asks you to pay attention. Surely paying attention isn't that hard? It's sure not for me when I am against a Ghostface.
He just… doesn't need a nerf. He's not in need of anything LIKE a nerf, he's not broken or strong enough to deserve a nerf. Chucky arguably deserved a nerf, Dracula deserved a slight nerf. Ghostface literally doesn't. He's a high C to low B tier and if he can't keep Shroud, he's got nothing. He can't hit you over loops, he can't end chases in five seconds, he can't create 50/50s, he can't even cross the map quickly. They JUST gave him buffs, minor ones, to help him function better because he DOES struggle so much in the pace of modern DBD and he actually STILL struggles even then if the team is any good - play him against a decent strong looper team, and you'll see exactly why he deserved the buffs and still deserves more. He has no BS mechanics except Reveal jank which literally isn't his fault and is bad design on the Devs' part for not making this more responsive on both his and the Survs' ends.
If anything, he needs MORE buffs and a better Reveal mechanic. His gameplay is fair, you're just mad you can't loop him easily anymore because he can get his Shroud back faster, one tap you if he plays correctly (he could always do that and that's the intended way to play both him and Myers, it's actually considered a marker of skillful play to 99 like this) and mindgame more easily in chase now.
Literally you're mad he's not D tier. That's what you're mad about here, that he can't be made a mockery of anymore (and he still can be if you know what you're doing). Stop asking for nerfs for Killers you don't know how to play against just because you find their design annoying, blame the Devs. At the least learn what line of sight is. At the least learn how to predict around tiles.
If you are gonna nerf him, he needs MASSIVE buffs everywhere else to compensate. He just does. He has nothing else otherwise, how would it be fair to nerf the one thing he does really well without any buffs? I don't think you would like that, and I don't think Survivors would stand for that.
It's shameful and a massive tell on ANYONE who upvoted in agreement that he needs a nerf, ANYONE who agrees with OP here needs to re-evaluate why they're so bad at the game they need to cry about nerfing an M1 Killer who loses his power if you mildly stare at him for 1 second. Is Trapper too spicy for you too? Is Myers too hard to handle?
You are not owed an experience where you are never frustrated with the game. You are not owed having your hand held for the whole game.
It's actually absolutely pathetic that people are asking for nerfs for a basic M1 Killer now because they never want any Killer to be too challenging for them to handle. Really sad how far Survivors have fallen in terms of skill, nobody seems to know what a mindgame is anymore.
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@hermitkermit said:
I think a casual mode could be possible, if it simply restricted things. Where certain perks, items, killers, and add-ons were just not an option in that mode. To determine what would be considered too strong or not allowed in casual mode could be determined by majority votes by the community itself. If either side wants to sweat they can try, but they can’t bring their favorite crutches.
I think a bigger issue is that players say they want casual, but every time it’s put into practice, (meme survivor perks, killers that aren’t deemed “S” tier by some streamer) the community always reacts very negatively.
Ironically the closest we have to Casual Mode depending who you ask is either Chaos Shuffle or 2v8, and people still sweat in it.
If you ask me, I think the best choice for Casual should be permanent Chaos Shuffle and no addons or items are allowed. Period. Now you HAVE to rely on skill alone.
I am sick of "quantity over quality" in rounds. It's time to fix how MMR works so that the sweaty ones stick with sweaty players and the rest of us can have some breathing room to have FUN for once.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I can't speak for everyone but being an experienced player its not fun or enjoyable stomping on weaker players. Very boring imo.
This. I actively feel bad when I get babies in my lobbies and often give them my Kill or let them get gens. I even usually just max 2k. I never want anyone new to ever feel discouraged for not getting a Kill or some amount of a win if they try and they're clearly just learning, or if they're all goofing around not being serious.
It isn't fun for me to kick babies. I want a fair challenge. It's why even on Killers that could benefit from more meta (such as my Main Ghostface), I restrict myself to no more than two gen perks (weaker ones usually like Surge or Thrilling Tremors paired with max one strong one like Pain Res, sometimes not even that) alongside a couple that help the Killer in particular. And the stronger they are, the less gen control I use - for example I might consider Pop-Pain Res on Myers or Trapper, but never on Dracula or Nurse where something like Surge could be enough. I also never ever use glitched or too strong perks like recently overtuned TotH, it's not a fair fight and it makes the game too easy.
I do the same as Survivor. I refused, REFUSED to used Buckle the People when it was overtuned and refused to use MFT at all when it was too strong. I won't use that Taurie Cain perk unless we're really getting slammed by tunnellers, and I don't use a Commodious BNP Spool box or a syringe every single game. I actually usually rock weaker toolboxes with charge addons and rely on my gamesense.
If you want the game to feel fair and encouraging, you need to be the change you want to see. I don't need to win every game, so there's no reason for me to bring the strongest stuff every single round. I know how rotten it feels to be slapped around round after round after round. I wish more people were like that.
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I'm glad they plan to address slugging, the problem is nobody can agree what slugging is. I saw some options on there that seem to suggest that they are considering if ANY amount of a down, even if it's the Survivors' fault for being clustered or making mistakes leading to it, is something that is considered slugging. It's a worrisome trend to me.
Realistically, I think we can all agree that the only time a down really becomes a slug is if it's to the point the Killer refuses to hook. I really do not think they should make every long down count, I think a slug should be considered a slug if it's when there's multiple people down the Killer refuses to hook, or if it's the last two and the other Surv is not within 36 m for 2 minutes. If a Survivor does not come pick a slug up and they're not in a chase that is on them, and yes a pickup should be an option. But my fear is, if they go too far punishing slugging, then forcing a Killer to slug you can become a way Survivors can hold a game hostage.
I would much, much rather the change be that you can pick up if multiples are left downed for more than a minute, AND you bleed out in 2 minutes not 4. This way only downing for a prolonged time is punished, not Killers just downing for a bit and coming back to hook because people are in range. Things Killers use to pressure should not be so strong they can grief with it (face camping), but not so weak it now becomes a new weapon that Survivors can use to grief a Killer right back.
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Listen, as long as I get the equivalent of enough to pip, or I reach a set goal, I'm happy. Sometimes that means a 4k. Sometimes that means 8 hooks. Sometimes that means doing BP stuff to boost it. Sometimes that's just doing a daily, doing tome stuff, or going for an adept/cheevo.
If my entire goal is to TRY and reach a set goal for myself, I always win.
I just wish BHVR would put equal value on NOT going for total dominance versus going for it, because it unnecessarily encourages a comp mindset if you emphasize that. This game is competitive, but it doesn't need to be an e-sport, and shaming people for not escaping/not killing anyone or worse, not rewarding them for trying is discouraging and encourages sweating. If you HAVE to 4k to pip, or HAVE TO escape to pip, of course you're going to sweat if your goal is to pip.
I just do not think a tag based game should be designed this way. it feels awful to try your absolute best, and be told you're not good enough. Maybe that's how the game's wincon was in the past, but should it be the only wincon? I don't think so. I think other wincons should be portrayed as valid, too. Why does the game seem to demand perfection in escapes or kills? It seems overly stressful and pointless, and this game can be stressful enough without also being discouraging. If the goal is to have a fun chill party tag atmosphere, then lean into that, don't punish someone for not always doing their best. Sometimes I don't wanna play to my best, sometimes I just wanna vibe or learn something new or be silly. But the game punishes me for losing, so I am discouraged to be silly and encouraged to sweat.
Why is not sweating punished, exactly? Why is MMR emphasized by the pip system? Why not decouple that or allow alternate ways to pip so MMR is brought away from the forefront and into the background as intended?
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@GeneralV said:
The killer chooses to slug, not the survivor.
In situations like the one you've described, a survivor might try to hide because it is the only thing they can do. That is just how the survivor role is designed.
As a killer, however, I usually just take the 3k because that is already a victory. It doesn't really matter if the last one gets lucky with the hatch, I've already won the game.
Slugging for the 4k is just unnecessary.
This.
You can win four times a round as Killer, as long as you kill someone it's one win. That's how the game is designed. Survivor has to escape, that's how they win. Therefore, the only way you can lose the round as Killer is if you 0k, everything from 1-4k is just how many wins you got. That's the 60% killrate this game is balanced around, not how many can 4k relentlessly. It's the community, not the game, that determined this arbitrary 1k lose 2k ties 3-4k wincon. Not the Devs. WE did that. Us.
That's why the game gives you ranks of number of kills for Killer (Brutal, Ruthless, Merciless). But Survivor it's binary, you escape or you die. You win or you lose. The real goal of Killer isn't to kill 'em all, it's to kill as many as possible, no matter what the game or the community tells you.
Therefore, a 1k is a win. A 2k is two wins, and so on.
This follows for Survivors too. You do not win or lose as a team, you win or lose individually. A 4 man out means nothing except that all four of you were overqualified for what that Killer could handle, you were all better than them. Any amount of kills in a round means that the Survivor who died is equal to not as good as that Killer. And on both sides you get more points for doing more things in the round than for just slamming your objective and leaving.
This isn't CoD or Overwatch. I'm not sure why the community has insisted we hold Killers to a higher standard based on number of kills over Survivor just trying to escape or not. I'm not sure why we've all collectively decided you HAVE to slaughter most of the team or you aren't good at Killer. The game isn't balanced that way.
And in any case, a 3k is definitely a good result. Hell, an 8hook is a good result and the same thing as essentially, a 3k. If the game doesn't care, and rewards you for it regardless of if you kill anyone, then why does the community care so much? How did we get this way?
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@Devil_hit11 said:
they're like hex perks on killer end. High risk, Low reward. i still think the invocations should have a looping effect where they trigger multiple times per match after being finished to make them high reward, high risk.
If they did that then the Killer would have to be able to destroy them permanently like Survs can Hexes. Imagine continuously looping Weaving Spiders. Multiple 10 charges off all gens in three minutes? That would be hellishly unfair.
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@TWS001 said:
2v8 will be what finishes DBD if they try and persist with it to be anymore than an occasional weekend mode. Even two to three weeks was way too much as it permanently broke queue times and just splits the community. The mode is too watered down with a lack of any longevity at all.
There is no obvious way to sort queues. Making people play as survivor to get quicker killer queues will just be people dying on purpose and then when they do get to play as killer, those games will be terrible as it will be survivors doing what they've just done thenselves to get to play killer. Everyone loses that way through terrible match quality. Then the so called "casual" mode becomes a complete mess.
Survivor in 2v8 bores me, I promise I'd throw every round just to get a chance to play Killer as the Killer I want.
I do not enjoy this mode enough to want to suffer through a stripped down version of the game JUST to play in a reasonable amount of time.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3858245#Comment_3858245
you get killer instincts based off your terror radius with legion. Does unforeseen TR place on gen just allow u to completely ignore this...cause if so that massive oversight.
I have played Legion in the past as part of my roster, don't anymore. Have done Stealth Legion too.
Legions' Killer Instinct isn't based on TR to my knowledge but I may be wrong. Otherwise stealth Legion wouldn't be able to find anyone. oni is similar. It's not an oversight, it's intended.
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IDK what they did but it seems something about this event broke a few Killers. First Houndmaster now this.
I haven't played any Killer yet but I was hoping to play some Dredge, this makes me sad to hear he's got this glitch. :(
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I briefly had this issue with Dredge's Frosty the Deadman snowman cosmetic. I went to buy it, bought some Aurics, but when it went through with the Aurics the total updated but I couldn't hit the button to purchase. I had to back out of the shop, back out of the Lobby, and go back in to purchase it. Was kinda confused and sad because I've been waiting all year for this skin and I couldn't get it, I thought I did something wrong.
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Also happening. I'm still bringing it for the bonus chests, been nice to loot for rare items.
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I have it too, I'd really like this charm. It's cute! I randomly got Apex Ursine I think as an unlock freebie and now can't get this charm. I don't even usually play Huntress… :(
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Noticing this too, I run it on my Cheryl and she is having it randomly occur going on cooldown and off cooldown, it's very weird. Like, I'll fall off a vault not in chase and it will happen.
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Yeah, already mentioned this, but he's missing his camera. It looks very silly. Give him back his camera. :(
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It's not happening to everyone, I had a friend in Customs against my Ghostie running this perk and I still got blinded with Blast Mine while Undetectable.
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I don't think this is a bug?
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Sometimes vaults are not making noise either, nor is getting into lockers or checking them, and no the players are not running perks to silence these.