doobiedo
doobiedo
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If windows is just a crutch for bad players that run and pre-drop every pallet as many are saying then they are just creating dead-zones that will let the Killer win eventually anyway. So what is the problem.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781665#Comment_3781665
But this "base kit counter" everyone talks about is a form of slowdown.
You have to reveal your aura to the killer at the start of the match, and then go find a corner to drop your item in. It's like lethal pursuer, a mini corrupt intervention, and means you don't have an item until you waste more time going to get it later. Which doesn't even touch on oblivious. And, I can't emphasize this enough: that's if you're "countering" the combo.
It does even more than that if you don't counter it, so it's basically like at least 4 perks in place of two. Or even just one, since people will see weave and automatically assume the killer has franklin's, even if they aren't running it.
Hilarious that the echo chamber of Killer main's on this forum think a perk that just lets you see windows and pallets needs a nerf but one that can give you mapwide wallhacks and has no realistic counterplay in many scenarios is perfectly fine. Real skill issue on their part.
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@caipt said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781566#Comment_3781566
If the reason you want basekit windows is because you dont know the maps, thats a skill issue.
If you can't find survivors without aura perks or stop them from doing gens without slowdown perks that's a lot more a skill issue.
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@Cypherius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781896#Comment_3781896
and it provides the exact same value to new players that don't even know what to do, as to those god loopers that now know where every single pallet is so they would never, ever make a mistake.
This is simply not true. There is a lot more to looping than simply knowing where pallets are. Furthermore good players know where pallets can spawn and don't need help from a perk. The only substantial benefit WoO gives to good loopers is knowing which pallets where used by other players, a benefit that is only relevant to Solo Queue.
Windows is not a replacement to skill. You could argue its used as a crutch by unskilled players but why does it matter? Unskilled players are not hard to chase regardless of WoO.
Nerfing WoO would be a benefit to the good players that still use this perk, as it would encourage them to drop it and use a better perk instead. But would be very detrimental to less skilled players that don't have a good grasp on tile generation and pallet spawns.
It isn't true at all that the only benefit to good loopers is knowing which pallets were already used. Even the best players will only have a general idea of where many of the pallets will spawn but Woo lets them know exactly.
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@TieBreaker said:
Should every fighting game character be extremely complex, so that it's a real match of skill every time? No. Why? Because not everyone has the luxury of devoting thousands of hours to a game, so there needs to be less skill intensive options for players who have a job, children, a life. Not to mention that it's a ******* computer game. It's not a broken perk, your perception that you are using skill and your opponent is on autopilot is the problem. If you want to sweat go ahead, but that doesn't mean everyone else has to follow suit.
Removing accessibility options out of spite is ridiculous.
Windows of Opportunity is not an "accessibility option". That's absurd. I remember watching a youtuber or streamer, although I can't remember which one, who said he USED to consider Woo a crutch perk. But, that was back when there was like 1/4 the maps or whatever (don't know the exact ratio.) The only players who would be able to learn all the maps would be Neets with thousands and thousands of hours. And just having the free time to memorize all that is not "skill." That's why I think Woo should just be basekit (along with Kindred) to help narrow the gap between solo que and Swf. And then if kill rates actually go down from this (I doubt it would even be that much) then they can buff Killer to compensate in some way. The fact is for everything except maybe the very highest MMR killer has become easy mode in the game and the Survivor role is incredibly unfriendly to new players.
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Off topic but is there no way to completely delete a post on this forum?
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I
@Gorik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781739#Comment_3781739
So I haven't really commenting even though this is my post, but my guy, this game has been survivor sided since release. The 4 best survs will always beat the best Killer, thats the nature of the beast.
The fact it's 4v1 alone makes it more surv sided. Just saying, been playing like 7 years and it's been like that always.
It maybe was Survivor sided for most of its life but its not anymore. The fact that the kill rate target is 60% proves that Bhv is even TRYING to make it killer sided. I dont even have a problem with the game being intended to be killer sided I just think its been pushed slightly too far and could use a balance adjustment to make it less frustrating for new players especially. And the point about being 1 vs. 4 thus automatically giving the advantage to the side with 4 makes no sense in an assymetrical game where by definition each side plays with different rules.
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I mean either way those streaks are much smaller than the Killer streaks, they are on coms, and they are from years ago when the game had not gotten as killer sided as it is now. I would guess they would not be able to get as high of a streak now that killer has been buffed so much, and even back then killers were still getting the higher streaks. Just sick of reading the echo chambers of delusional killer mains claiming the game is still survivor sided when at this point it is more killer sided then it has ever been.
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I would like some clarification on if Survivors hiding in endgame and not doing gens is actually considered "holding the game hostage" because I swear just yesterday I saw a post from a Mod saying survivors hiding in endgame is not reportable. I can't find it now though and don't remember what thread it was in. It seems to me that if this is actually a rule new players would be breaking it all the time. Also it just seems odd. The goal of survivor is to escape the best way to do that if there are 2 players left is hide and wait for the other player to die and then get hatch. Seems a strange rule to have that "you have to let the Killer kill you."
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781675#Comment_3781675
Those win streaks happen on S-A tier killers and the people playing them have thousands of hours on those killer specifically. Many people say Huntress is S Tier and Godlike OP but her highest streak after 8 years is 101 and its not even official if they got that high.
Survivors have gotten a 383 escape streak. So should Huntress be buffed?
Streaks depend on the skill of the player. No random person is going on a 1,000 win streak as Blight OR Nurse unless they have a significant amount of hours in those killers. You cant just pick up a killer randomly and do that, it doesn't happen.
Can you link me to this "383 escape streak." Just curious about it because I've never heard of one that high.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781653#Comment_3781653
Do you know the definition of the word exaggeration? Or Hyperbole? Obviously I still lose but I do significantly better anytime I use it.
The point is its not an exaggeration or hyperbole when Killers go on 1000 game win streaks. Like this literally happens all the time. No Survivor perks should be nerfed until the balance of the game is better and its not possible for killers to do this anymore. Its amazing that Killer mains here will say that Woo needs a nerf but Weave doesn't.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
No, it's perfectly fine as a perk. It shouldnt be nerfed nor should it be basekit. It's a definition of an actual crutch perk that does nothing if you're good and helps you to perform better if you lack necessary game sense.
Then why do streamers with over 8000 hours and in the top percent of mmr use it?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3781566#Comment_3781566
Coincidentally I have a YouTube channel with a video where I called it overpowered and let me tell you what I was in fact uncatchable. Well right into the end lol. Go watch it and there is your proof.
And yes I said vets use it too lol. Its just really good for new people too so it probably shouldn't be nerfed.
Well I would ask you to link to the video but it doesn't matter anyway because one video escaping against baby killers means nothing. Now if you can stream 8 hours a day for a week maybe and escape every single time the same way killers go on 1000 game win streaks then maybe you would have a point.
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About time we had something new that's Survivor sided in this game.
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Windows of Oppurtunity and Kindred both need to be basekit. As it is playing Killer is easier than a PvE game.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
After 500 hours of gameplay the perk is deleted from your account.
The problem is it’s great for new people to teach them the game. And for veterans to not get caught at a loop without a pallet. It’s definitely an autopilot perk that has consistent and insane value. I’m not great at looping but when I use Windows I become borderline uncatchable.
A 10 second cooldown wouldn’t do anything anyways as you could remember 2-3 pallets at a time.
Edit: I better specify the first sentence is a joke before people start going crazy
This is actually not true all considering I regularly see streamers with like 8000 hours using it. Like to see your gameplay where you're "uncatchable" just from using Windows. It should be basekit considering the insane amount of maps now.
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Because the game has gotten Killer sided enough as it is. We need basekit Windows and Kindred to help balance it out.
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Wow I can't believe a hatch escape, which is essentially a draw, is counting as escape in Bhv's official statistics for them to balance the game. No wonder the game has gotten so ridiculously Killer sided.
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No. It should actually be basekit in its current form along with Kindred.
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Weave is in the Shrine of Secrets right now anyway.
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I know a lot of people in this thread have claimed a big part of the us vs. them issue is related to players only playing one side or the other. Well in my case I started as a killer main but eventually switched to survivor because killer is so brain dead easy. Anyone who plays both roles and claims Survivor is Op is either just bad, or they except to be able to get a 3 or 4 k nearly every game. Yes I get all the arguments "that Survivor used to be super OP" and "the Killer is supposed to be the power role" and all that. And let's grant that Survivor was that OP. Well now the tables have turned and Killer has become the OP role.
There is no argument that it's not imbalanced in favor of Killer at this point. Even Bhvr have admitted this by stating they are shooting for a 60% Kill rate. I get the point that they want the killers to be powerful and feel hard to escape from, but they've taken it too far and need a course correction at this point. I'm not saying change it to 50% but maybe 55 would be a good sweet spot.
2 vs. 8 shows an example of a mode where survivors can load into a match and not feel they have almost 0 chance to escape. If Bhvr. wants to continue to grow their game they WILL buff Survivor at some point soon because it has just gotten ridiculous. All the new players who came in for 2 v. 8 mode will quit when it goes away if they feel like they have no chance of winning in the normal mode. Of course keeping the 2 vs. 8 mode is not a solution either at this point because of the que time issue as well as the fact it will just eventually become very repetitive playing the same 5 killers and 4 classes over and over.
As for the issue of unfun playstyles, I will just say both sides seem to be hypocrites on this. If you as a Killer insist on always slugging for the 4k and proxy camping and tunneling then don't complain about survivors that try to use boil over and go down in a place that's impossible to hook, or that drag out the game at the end by hiding and not doing gens as long as possible, or even (gasp) "hide in a locker and don't let me get my achievement that I of course self evidently deserve." And of course that goes the other way around as well, but the fact is at this point it is way easier for the killer player to make the game unfun for survivors than vice versa. Perhaps the needed Survivor buff I spoke of above could help with this issue as well because if both sides have a more even ability to make the game unfun for each other things will even out in a "Mutual Assured Destruction" sort of way.
And I know someone might comment "you're just perpetuating the problem the OP is talking about." Well as I stated at the start of my post I play both sides and it's obvious to anyone who does as well and is at least decent at games that killer power creep has gone too far. I feel like some of the complaints about "too much division" is coming from Killer mains that want to shut down any implication that their role has gotten too strong.
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This is one of the most insightfull comments I'v read on a dbd forum. I will say as a survivor main Id be fine with them not nerfing Weave Attunement as long as they restore Circle of Healing to it's former glory.
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Okay, so there was something fishy going on then...
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Wow okay did not realize this, thanks. I have 150 hours or so in this game but I still feel like a complete newbie and barely understand what is going on. I assume most times I think something must be a bug or cheating there is some actual explanation I just don't understand.