doobiedo
doobiedo
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@Doxie said:
I don't know about anyone else....but if I'm one of the last two survivors in a match and the other person is slugged by a killer looking for end game moir....I will hide and evade. Sorry BHVR....you made your bed. When I play in a group and I'm the person down ...I tell whoever I'm playing with the same thing. The last survivor moir is horrible and I won't feed I won't feed into it. I've even been known to hide and wait out the end game timer just to waste their time like they've wasted mine.
I do exactly the same thing. I feel like it's a win to keep the killer from getting a 4k even if I end up dying to the timer.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850711#Comment_3850711
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3850723#Comment_3850723
To be fair, it did work twice.
Freddy after his release and Skull Merchant.
I'm glad that Bhvr. is actually listening and fixing this issue instead of waiting forever like they did with Weave Attunement. If it takes people complaining on the forums for Bhvr. to see the error of their ways sometimes then so be it.
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@Ryuhi said:
Interesting how a lack of alternatives to sidestep the penalty works. Killers have always been "forced to play the game as long as possible" even when they want to leave the match. They either DC/AFK and get DCed, or they finish the match. It has been suggested they get the ability to quit early with no penalty like survivors currently can, but the fact of the matter is any player leaving early is disrupting the game, ruining it for the other 4 players.
This is why it has a scaling penalty that goes up the more often you DC: Once occasionally because you have an internet issue or emergency is perfectly ok, especially since it will likely take longer for the IRL issue than the starting penalties. Do it too often? You get punished for ruining other people's games. See no reason why you should have to play out games? You should probably play a different game, preferably something either single player, or with drop in/out so the game can continue with or without you.
Sounds like a fair trade off for being the "power role" and having the game mechanics literally skewed in your favor.
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Honestly despite all the whiners in this thread I believe Bhvr. is smart enough to realize that this would only lead to surivor players either quitting the game in droves or just trolling. Despite what many in these forums say most of the time when a survivor "goes next" the game is unwinnable anyway. If Bhvr. wants to fix the balance of the game so these unwinnable situation aren't so common then maybe its a possibility. As it is by leaving Survivors an "escape valve" to leave unwinnable and unfun games, it takes pressure off Bhvr. to actually make survivor (or at least solo que) worth playing.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I see a lot of posts saying “just use Counterforce to deal with Hex: Thrill of the Hunt” but I’d love to just collectively deal with all of these threads by bringing up some counter arguments that completely shutdown Counterforce entirely.
First off… let’s talk modifiers… and math…
For those who don’t know how modifiers in DBD work, perk descriptions work in percentages but in DBD’s code these percentages are converted into decimals and equations to calculate what happens at a given time. Based on how this equation is set up, it can result in positive or negative modifiers being more or less effective.
To put it bluntly, Counterforce got the worse end of the stick here. Negative modifiers are applies first. Positive modifiers are applied second. This results in Counterforce having a diminished effect at cleansing totems due to how the match works out for the Charge per Second (C/S).
- Hex Totems take 14 seconds to cleanse; 1 C/S and 14 Charges, 14 Seconds.
- Hex: Thrill of the Hunt applies a 70% deficiency modifier; 0.3 C/S and 14 Charges, 46 Seconds.
- Counterforce applies a +20% (or extending effect) efficiency modifier afterwards; 0.36 C/S and 14 Charges, 38 Seconds.
- Hex: Face The Darkness makes Survivors outside of the Terror Radius scream every 25 seconds, reveal their location, and interrupt actions. Even with Counterforce, you are unable to counter Hex: Face The Darkness, the cleanse time is just too long.
Second off… Counterforce is licensed perk…
This can lead to a whole set of issues when it comes to came balance. Licensed Perks are normally designed to be “gimmicky” or “really bad” to avoid being meta.
If a Licensed Perk becomes necessary to run every game, and the only way to actively get said perk is through spending money, it leads to issues where the game becomes Pay to Win.
There is the Shrine of Secrets, which sometimes holds Licensed Perks, but it is unreliable and might not even release the License Perk you need. There are many cases where perks (including Non-Licensed Perks) have not shown up in the Shrine of Secrets or take literal years to show up.
I don’t think this is healthy design for the game.
Of course it's not healthy for the game, just like old Weave Attunement. Some killer players just have the idea that because they are supposedly the "power role" its fine for them to have completely broken perks. If you can't do at least decently at killer without taking advantage of the most scummy builds you can find you're just bad at the game, period. The problem is Bhvr. listens to whining killer players because they dominate the forums.
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The game is not survivor sided at any level anymore, killer players just cling to that myth because their ego won't let them accept they're playing the easier role.
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@danielmaster87 said:
It is. I've never seen a community fight so hard to make the game unbalanced, and then blame other players for it. And ordinarily, the way that we speak to the devs, I don't like at all. But then again, other game devs have little to no problems with their games, and therefore don't have this kind of tight knit pressure culture with the community.
The biggest thing that gets me is that casuals, narratively, run this game. If I had all the changes I want made to Smash Bros, the game would be terrible. Luckily, nobody listens to a scrub like me on that game. But here, it's commonplace. The bar being set for players is just so low, especially on the survivor side. "The killer shouldn't be able to see any auras, and if they don't have a cooldown on their power, they're OP." That's the kind of stuff that gets humored when you tailor your game to casuals. If you did what every other game did, which is balance around high level players, the casuals are gonna have fun or throw fits like usual, but the up-and-coming players will reap the reward of learning and getting better at a balanced game.
But in terms of toxicity, this is the worst I've seen. They only dabble in arguments about game balance and skill to the extent that they get to look down on people, or rub it in after beating someone. When they lose: "This game is broken because this, this, and this! That's bad design!" When they win: "EZ! Lmao! Get better! Oh, what? You're bringing up bad design! Baby killer! I'm so good at this game!" It's infantile.
What are you talking about, this game is killer sided at every level now. If anything killer has become the casual role. And you think if a Killer had no cooldown on their power that would not be op? Okaaay.
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The meltdown over this perk is very illuminating, as it shows that the killer mains that are so vocal on these forums cannot handle anything at all that goes in the survivors favor even the slightest bit. I first heard about this perk in a forum thread and when first reading it I was under the impression that it actually gives survivors an extra hook state, which is the only way this massive crying would even be remotely warranted. But no, it turns out all it does is let survivors trade a hook state, and it even introduces a massive downside to the survivor trading as well. But because it makes tunneling slightly harder, everyone has to run to the forums and have their circle-jerk crying fest because the kill rate might go down from 60% to 59%.
Survivors are constantly having to deal with game-breaking mechanics, such as Weave Attunement that was just recently fixed, and now the Thrill of the Hunt that is so broken in favor of killer that certain killers can now make it literally impossible for the survivors to even cleanse the hex totems. And who knows how long it will take Bhvr. to fix this new broken mechanic. Survivors are used to having the game be completely in favor of killer at this point, so they don't complain on the forums as much. But killer players have been coddled by Bhvr. for so long, that now a perk that merely lets Survivors trade hook-states, with a massive downside on top of that, causes this salt explosion of nuclear proportions. Truly shows how many killer mains in this game cannot deal with an actually balanced fair game, but need the mechanics to be massively in favor of them at all times. Hopefully Bhvr. does not listen to the crying killer mains again.
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More people dc in regular mode than 2v.8 in my experience. So if you you're telling the DCers to go back to the regular mode they're just going to DC there.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432870/why-is-nurse-allowed-to-be-broken
Everytime this thread comes up, i ask a simple question. Should the game be balanced around top tier players, or average level players?
In my opinion, multiplayer games should always be balanced around what the highest level players are capable of doing, while still making sure the game is fun for the average skill players. This is where you rework things that are bad in competitive play, but are complete "noob stompers" such as when LoL did that to champions like Xin Xhao, at one point, who was stomping pub games, but pretty bad in tournament play. Or the reverse, where something is really good in competitive play, but super hard to play so in low skill games it has a horrible win rate. That way the game is inherently balanced, and it gives players something to strive for that is valuable.
For some reason, the DBD community seems to think that you should balance this game around average skilled players. I disagree with that, but thus, i give you the stats.
The last official stats released:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/433
They put nurse at a 55% kill rate at 3rd from the bottom. Keep in mind that the stats are slightly deflated for doctor due to the "afk doctor" epidemic that was going on in some regions, and hillbilly changes had just barely gone live, and didn't include the removal of the overheat yet. Additionally, nearly every single time they release data, the nurse is the bottom of the list in terms of kill rate, usually far below the desired "60% kill rate" mark and making her by far the "worst killer in the game"
Even looking at the unofficial stats on nightlight, shows her having a 57% kill rate, not too far off that 55% kill rate the official stats put her at and killers like:
- lich
- pinhead
- sadako
- blight
- twins
- hag
- plague
- pig (yes pig)
- wraith
- freddy (yes freddy)
- leatherface
- oni
- chucky
- nemesis
- doctor
- dracula
- billy
- wesker
- dredge (yes dredge)
All have a higher kill rate than her. In fact, the unofficial stats put her only slight above the average 56.83% kill rate of all killers.
So i ask you again. Should games be balanced around what the most skilled players in the game are capable of? Or should they be balanced around the average player? When you look at the most skilled players in the world, generally you'll see that, assuming no outside rules like perk restrictions, or scoring systems, or any other things that the "comp scene" tries to put in place to balance the game, pretty much the only viable killers at that level, are nurse, spirit, and maybe blight (although i'm not sure since the removal of hug tech).
So, if we were to balance around the highest skilled players in the game, the survivors need massive massive nerfs, or almost every killer needs massive massive buffs in order to compete. Then, if that is the case THEN nurse can be nerfed.
But if the philosophy is that we balance the game around the "Average" players"? Well, then based on that, looking at official stats from BHVR, shows that nurse is in dire need of BUFFS to bring her more in line with the super strong killers like… freddy…. and pig….
And the unofficial stats show her as the shining beacon of design and balance for what this game should be balanced around, a perfectly "average" killer.
Keep in mind i say these things as a player who:
- Has 4k hours
- Is a nurse main
- Literally cannot remember the last time i lost a game as nurse (i do draw on rare occasion)
- Thinks nurse should be nerfed
- Thinks that survivors as a whole need to have their "power" toned down significantly, mostly in terms of nerfing loops and not increasing gen times
- If anything i think gens should be shorter
So one last time, i ask you, should this game be balanced around high skill players, or average skill players?
If you think loops need to be nerfed more than they already have been when survivor is already at the weakest spot its ever been in the history of the game then nothing else you say can be taken seriously.
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@SuspiciousBrownie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/432141/my-take-why-game-is-killer-survivor
This is terrible logic for multiple reason. Who knows how many free kills the killers get from Dcs and throwing on hook, for all we know the real kill rate might be 40% if survivors couldn’t DC or throw on hook.
Don’t even get me started on perks/ individual player skill. Devs want killers to have a little over 2 kills on average and this is BEYOND fair. Friday had a 90% kill rate and that was a 1v7. It’s an asymmetrical horror game the killer is supposed to be the power role and a threat that survivors need to team up and work together to overcome.
It’s actually at a point where the killers are honestly a joke and that’s what Friday did way better. When Jason showed up you were afraid, there was no body blocking, no flashlight saves, no pallets. Just running and delaying the inevitable. And stunning Jason was always super risky not to mention after being stunned too much he went into rage mode and COULD LITERALLY WALK THROUGH WALLS AND DOORS. Not to mention ignore stuns, stopping a 60mph car dead in its tracks.
THAT was an asym horror game that maintained the majority of its horror. Winning as consoler felt great and was such a difficult feat for the most part. DBD has almost none of that because killers for the most part are a joke that you run around a rock 45 times to waste time.
Well I never played friday but its obviously a completely different game so not really relevant in this discussion. If kill rate was 90% in dbd I think most survivors would quit the game. Also dbd isn't really a horror game, it's a horror themed competitive asym pvp game now.
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@Toystory3Monkey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3831252#Comment_3831252
i genuinely dont want to argue with a person who has mindset like yours, because you're clearly way too invested into the issue to see things clearly. I`ll still spend my time addressing your points, because I dont want to leave that misinformation hanging there.
>Saying "balance is at it's best" is completely tone deaf to the huge issues the current game has. Balance has steadily been shifting in the killer's favor for two years now, and that's been the stated goal since the devs are pushing for 60% kill rate. An arbitrary number picked out of a hat, that a lot of killer players didn't really care where it came from because it had meant a ton of bugs and changes to allow killers to win more.
"balance is bad because it doesnt favour bad survivors anymore". Im sorry to burst your bubble, but the "60%" killrate number includes the average games of all averagely bad survivors and killers. Im afraid I think I have to tell you that would mean that survivors are more likely to have bad players on average which would drag down the good players as well.
Balancing for 50% would've made sense when survivor skill issue factor would've been eliminated, be it competitive matchmaking or self sufficient design where each survivor has independent and equal chance to earn escape. None of that will happen, so you, as a solo q victim, will suck it up, just like killers suck it up when facing SWFs that cherry pick strong links.
as for skull merchant, have you ever considered people don't necessarily DC from the games that are 100% going to lose? Especially against a killer that was made socially acceptable to give up against 5 seconds into the match without even attempting to play the match out? Has a thought ever occured to you that maybe lots of these games couldve been won games because ultimately skull merchant is an overrated C tier killer with consistent (just boring) counterplay?
>camping, tunneling, and slugging are out of control
survivors have never had this many tools, including basekit mechanics, to combat that. Imagine showing your complaint to a person in like 2021.
"waaah camping tunnelling slugging is out of control and solo q is unplayable because we have no comms"
"wait you guys have like 6-7 meta perks just to combat tunnelling, just as many to fight slugging, basekit borrowed time, a whole system that makes facecamping physically impossible with rare exceptions and you have a whole UI system that TELLS you what each of your teammates is doing at any given moment?"
if you were sent far enough, you'd cause bootstrap paradox of an entitled survivor meme.
so i`ll repeat myself again, generally the balance isn't the issue. Both sides have the ability to take stupid and op ######### or perks that counter each other's playstyles / builds in rock-paper-scissors manner. The issue is that people refuse to try and are being cheered for that.
Survivors are at fault for their misery. Not this game's supposed poor balance (which is in such a good spot rn that people unironically complain about slugging which hasnt been buffed in years). People who give up, grief and fish for the "perfect" game, not realizing they should've taken a break from this game years ago are the ones that cause your misery.
On a semi unrelated note, Im seeing that people genuinely believe they can bully people out of camping, tunnelling, sweating,etc,etc. Should be focusing on bullying people out of giving up. Address the root of the issue.
Have a good day and maybe take a break from playing this game too.
"Waah waah waah, I'm going to perform a bunch of mental gymnastics to justify the fact that I'm playing the easy role in the game." And the funny thing is killer mains like you that complain about survivors "giving up" dont even seem to realize that the ability to give up is the only reason that survivors, solo que survivors at least, even keep playing the game at all when it is so completely imbalanced in the killers favor. So if you want to both keep the game completely imbalanced as well as complain that god forbid survivors arent forced to stay in the completely unwinnable games, then go play a single player game instead and dbd will probably be better off for it.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824923#Comment_3824923
Putting words in my mouth, are we? I did not say that survivors have to accept that they will die. I simply explained why kill rates are not a good indicator for a killer's strength and that this has nothing to do with survivors giving up.
If that was the case, then we'd have seen way more disconnects and hook suicides right after 6.1.0 because that was when killers were at their strongest, considering that killers had a realistic way to hold the game hostage.
If you really don't want to play the game, then don't do it! Is that so hard? Don't threaten to do something but actually follow through. Don't start the game and don't queue up, if you are going to leave anyway.
You clearly don't like the game and the rest of your team as well as the killer don't like to play a game that is over because someone decided to rage quit.
Im just going to mention one thing you said that is completely wrong. Killers were not stronger right after 6.1.0 the they are now. The general sentiment that I'v seen is that killer is at the easiest point in the history of the game right now and the opposite is true for survivor. Maybe back then in certain cases killers could be very annoying, with the 3 gens and such, but that is not the same as stronger. And I'm not going stop playing the game because I still enjoy it a lot of the time. If killers can whine and scream on the forums for more survivor nerfs when the game is already tilted in their favor, then I have the right to complain on behalf of the weaker side that just wants a more fair game.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824705#Comment_3824705
You can't understand the principle even with the explanations?
And it works for any player by the way.
I'm sorry I have no idea how to dumb it down even more than what was already done.
@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824693#Comment_3824693
Again, what I wrote and survivors "going next" have nothing to do with each other. Nothing at all.
Most of the time survivors rage quit whenever even the tiniest inconvenience occured. It doesn't matter whether they were about to win or lose because it's readily available and any game will have these moments of minor frustration.
What are you even talking about? You're just making random pronouncements. You said that Survivors just have to accept that they will lose because the game is designed for killer to be easier and survivors have to accept that. Well then you have to accept survivors won't stay in this worthless game. If you want to say nothing matters, statistics, circumstancial evidence, nothing, then go play a pve game. Otherwise accept that survivors are actual humans and don't care about how you try to justify an unfair game. Survivors aren't going to stay in the game just to massage your ego so you can pretend you're good at a game even though you're playing with rules rigged in your favor.
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@drsoontm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824477#Comment_3824477
It is so obvious (to many I hope) yet it looks at least some fail to understand the concept.
Too many variables to take into account?
I'm amazed. At least now I better understand some of the outlandish posts I see popping from time to time.
Its obvious anyway you look at it though that killer is overpowered and easy mode in the game, both anecdotally and statistically. And just becauae statistics dont always tell the whole story it does provide a good deal of evidence when combined with other (such as the amount of survivors giving up) that killer overall has become the easy assisted mode in the game ( yes even freddy.)
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824627#Comment_3824627
You are missing the point. I explained that even with a killer that would be objectively too weak to be considered balanced an experienced killer could maintain a 60% kill rate.
Whether or not this is good design is a different debate. I'd be more than happy with 50% kill rates, if they can find a way to keep the killer experience pleasant. We had that before and 10+ minutes queue times for survivors weren't exactly rare. So it's safe to say that a lot of people didn't consider the killer role very fun back then.
Well thats fine but then I hope you dont complain about survivors "going next". (Im not saying you do, just hope youre not of the many on these forums that complain about it.)
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@Diiino said:
If survivors are too blind to see that they have a huge advantage with the extra pallets and taking a killer away from their objective then they dont deserve it. The event is more survivor sided if anything. The killer has to risk their ojective just to get a chance to shoot a haunt that gets stuck on a hill. There is no way that is killer sided. Survivrors get one shotted by so many perks and skills that a chance of a one shot is nothing to complain about. Its honestly just a skill issue for survivors i guess.
The point is it is killer sided if both sides are messing around with the event stuff. Obviously if the killer is just doing that but the survivors just do gens it wont be.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3821983#Comment_3821983
if average soloQ experience is so unbearable, why are yall vouching for DC penalty removal and are advocating for giving up on hooks to stay in the game?
It would be better if Bhvr. balanced the game, but because they either wont or cant they keep ability to "go next" so survivors dont just stop playing the game.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824486#Comment_3824486
How is any of what I said mental gymnastics? Nothing I said can even be put up for debate. It's simply facts.
They could release a powerless killer with 4.4 m/s movement speed tomorrow and without perks I would still be able to achieve a 60% kill rate eventually because I would still dominate beginners without any issue whatsoever.
This is what happens when someone with thousands of hours of experience plays against people that have no clue about the game. Would such a killer be considered strong? Definitely not.
Well then thats a flaw with the game. Also killer dominates at every level not just with beginners. You cant deny that killer has gotten easier and survivor harder over the years.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824531#Comment_3824531
Yeah, maps now aren't packed with jungle gyms stacked on top of each other and actually require survivors to have a brain to know how to loop on them. Except if they have WoO ofc.
Good thing for you you dont need a brain to play killer.
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@SpicySliceOfApplePie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823081#Comment_3823081
it’s a poor attempt at a gotcha moment. This is also called a strawman argument, two side are arguing, so one side overinflated the other sides argument to an unrealistic degree so they can point at this and go “look at this super unrealistic reality I made up, obviously the opposing side wants this super unrealistic scenario, their argument sucks.” It’s just a lazy way to argue without actually having a rebuttal. We see this all the time in debates and it’s exhausting.
I mean the thing is killers complain so much when they already have a statistical advantage, and it makes it seem like winning most of the time isnt good enough, they want to win essentially all of the time. So its not as much of an exaggeration as you imply it is.
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@GlamourousLeviathan said:
I didn't realize how dependant survivors were of WOO until these temporary game modes started. Sure, I would see 4 WOO per game, but that doesn't mean they are dependant on it. But taking this perk off makes such BIG difference.
Every normal, survivors have the most optimal path and always know where to go. However, in a temporary mode without perks, I see that most survivors run around like headless chickens and often go for a deadzone. That's when I realized how impactful this perk is.
Becauae they've nerfed the maps so much they are almost all deadzones. All these arguments about why woo is too necessary actually just show why it should be basekit.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824230#Comment_3824230
with how strong tiles in void is, even with broken and exhausted status effects, you can hold a long chase against the killer.
Oops, you aren't good in chases? Your fault tbh
Not when every killer has an anti-loop. How often do you actually go against an actual m1 killer anymore I almost never do.
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@Xernoton said:
Kill rates are not a good indicator of strength. That is partially because MMR aims to put killers in a place where they can maintain a 60% kill rate no matter how strong or weak their killer is.
This also explains why every time a killer is buffed or nerfed, there is an immediate difference in their kill rate that ceases after some time. Only when kill rates remain consistently high or low for an extended period of time, do you even have a chance to draw some conclusion on the killer's strength from it.
The second problem is, that there are killers that are objectively more powerful than others, yet maintain a lower kill rate. Like Nurse. Meaning, while kill rates and killer strength generally have some correlation it is not as linear as "This killer has a high kill rate, so they are overpowered." or "This killer has a low kill rate, so they are weak."
You can do all the mental gymnastics you want but.killer is objectively easy mode in the game. The ability to "go next" on hook is the only reason survivor players dont just stop playing the game at least in solo que.
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@joybonru22 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824172#Comment_3824172
of course, if people are less interested in playing killer they will buff the killer like the current balance where the balance is in favor of the killer so they can have fun, and conversely if the survivor is rarely played they will buff the survivor.
Well survivors just kill themselves on hook or dc instead. Wow great game.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824395#Comment_3824395
Does the third party website show the kill rates have changed a lot this year, or are you only checking the current stats?
Because although you might be able to argue there is a correlation between the official stats and the third party stats, you need to track if there are any offsets when comparing the data. For example, the third party kill rates might consistently be 3% lower than the official stats.
TD;LR when using third party data, you need to track the kill rate trend over time, instead of just looking at the current data.
The thing is the kill rates have definitely changed, its statistically impossible for them to be exaclty the same, so its strange Bhvr. would say that. In my own experience the game seems way more killer sided then it did almost a year ago when those stats were released and I escape way less now then I did then, so I dunno.…I am definitely skeptical.
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@Autharia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824111#Comment_3824111
Events don't have MMR so its up to RNG who you get be it someone that just started or the top player as killer. Tho event should be perkless or set ones like 2v8.
The special modes do have mmr according to mods on this forum.
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@ratcoffee said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3822786#Comment_3822786
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/NENM9X765MUV/dbd-swf-stats-jan-2024.png
48.3% escape rate is not "most of the time"
Its interesting seeing these stats from almost a year ago. I wonder how much lower the eacape rate is now because the game has gotten way more killer sided since then.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
Just because they aren't free second chances, doesn't mean they don't have great stuff. Expand your mind, and your skill set.
You complain so much, yet killers still have over 60% kill rate. If you want to play a game even more tilted in your favor, go play a pve game on easy mode.
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@Rawrbot5k said:
From forum posts, streamers and youtubers the general consensus is this event as well as the last few events 2v8, lights out, etc. have been arguably killer sided. Just wondering if this is a trend that will continue like a balancing of the scales due to the normal game play being noticeably SWF survivor sided like lets throw the killer mains a bone? I get wanting to please everyone but when both sides are commenting on how it's imbalanced for one you would think that point of fact would have come up in developing the mode no?
The game isnt actually swf sided anymore. In high mmr 4 man swf escape rate was slightly under 50% the last time statistics were given.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824136#Comment_3824136
Obviously you didn't read anything i wrote but you do you boo. I'm not a killer main i play both sides. I was taken hostage first i just got pissed off being stuck in a match they lost 45 minutes ago.
I'm not saying you neccesarily are petty but so many killers are they will take it out on you anyway. The game is just in a very unhealthy state because Bhvr. refuses to fix it.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824111#Comment_3824111
i understand that it's hard to swallow pill that not every survivor player is bad at the game to the point that they have to complain about everything while not looking at their own mistakes
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430480/event-solo-que-trial-testing
that's basically how i play too, focus on pumpkin smashing, going for smoke bombs, using them during chase, repairing gens just as much as needed to fill the void energy bar, go and transfer it, rinse and repeat.
Tha main problem is that my teammates almost never enter rift at all lol, they are contrary to average regular soloQ players and in this mode they just focus on doing gens
because entering the rift will just make you more likely to lose. (Maybe unless you're going in there to extend a chase.) And your teammates must hate you refusing to do gens.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823663#Comment_3823663
So people rather hide for an hour dropping their item in a corner or locker jumping than bleed out for 4 minutes? I don't like bleeding out for 4k eather but for killer adepts thats kinda needed.
Is it annoying when it happens sure, but keeping killer hostage for 30 minutes, 40 minutes or 1 hour just because you can MAYBE get slugged for 4 minutes isn't right and needs to be punished. They need to add crows or something to let the killer know where the survivor is if gens aren't touched in 5-10 minutes and by this i mean done at least little bit, not just clicked the gen and back to hiding.
Ive been in the receiving end of this behaviour now multiple times and in all of those games i've played quite fairly, but survivors wanted to be poopieheads in the end. Endgame chat i usually get GGEZ or something along those lines when the game finally finishes. Last time it happened my game which would have ended in 10 minutes took me 45 minutes due to survivors hiding. In the end when i finally found them i was so pissed i slugged them to death..💩
Killers are so petty nowadays with a game already rigged in their favor (yet they still complain on the forums.) No wonder survivors will be petty back.
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@WashYourHands said:
survivors don't go to the well; flashlights are stronger. btw blight with blight serum add-on is bugged lmao #buggedbydaylight
Why would survivors go to the well when it will just make them more likely to lose.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3824063#Comment_3824063
Everyone I main turns to dust. First it was Freddy getting reworked, then it was Slinger, then it was Knight, now it's Merchant.
Whats wrong with slinger. Slinger is fine when I play him. Quickscope was way too powerful if thats what youre complaining about
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@Doxie said:
So I was bored today and decided to do some solo que testing plus work on challenges in the Tome. I was shocked at the results. Basically I focused mainly on challenges, avoiding the killer, gens just enough to open rifts to the void and smashing pumpkins. No saving (unless I was absolutely sure killer was not around), just avoid, pumpkins gens to get crystals and avoid playing for hatch.
I couldn't believe one how many times I survived compared to normal survivor play and even when I got caught 6 out 10 times my score was higher than the killer.
I hate this game play but honestly... This is what BHVR has given survivors...gotta take it. Load up with a med kit… I was running speed burst (with a smoke bomb) got me out of most chases with an escape, vigil, second wind and blood rush. Hope that helps un-frustate a lot of survivors in this event
You must be at super low mmr or something facing baby killers. Happy for you though.
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@InvadeGames said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820576#Comment_3820576
all maps have loops. He also didnt say every ranged killer is the same. this attitude is part of the problem and you and the others dont have fun
I was in an especially bad mood when I wrote that but it is still true that it is way harder for new survivors then new killers and one reason for that is so many different killers to learn how to counter. The map thing was just an exxageration of Bhvr's terrible new and reworked map design. Yes there are still loops but often only unsafe ones or there are just massive deadzones everywhere. How can Bhvr expect new survivors to keep playing the game if they only cater to killer players and basically make it so as survivor you don't even know what is going on until you have a few hundred hours minimum.
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@InvadeGames said:
almost every perk counters some other perk in the game.
we cant just nerf a perk that some people use just because in 1 situation of 1000 it does something you dont like.
They should just change it back to what it was before or rework it again because its just a bad and unhealthy concept for a perk, even if it's not on nurse.
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820907#Comment_3820907
Your first sentence literally explained why it's a "crutch for bad Survivors".
That perk makes you way better than you actually are in the game, compensating your lack of skill. Besides, WoO users won't learn anything about spawning because all they do is simply run to the Yellow. Take the aura away, and they can't even loop for 10 seconds.
You know, once I played several matches with Third Seal + Penti + Plaything, and Survivors I chased have literally no idea how to loop at all, UNTIL the totem is cleansed. THAT IS A PROBLEM.
That's why I personally won't use this perk as Survivor. Same goes for Distortion, I never run the perk because they're literally clutch, and you won't learn anything from it.
Every perk ( or actually useful perk at least) makes you "better than you actually are in the game", like what does that even mean. If this is true than gen regression makes killers better, and if without it they couldn't stop survivors from doing the generators in time, then they actually must just be bad at the game.
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@drsoontm said:
I've read most of the arguments, from everybody.
It boils down to a thing: inexperience and misunderstanding of statistics. (Plus the naivety of taking top players as example, ignoring the same top players of the opposite side)
If you believe a role is easy and want to back it up, just play that role and keep winning.
I guarantee you whatever role you chose, you'll learn relatively fast that you were wrong.
On another hand, if you don't want to "show us" then don't expect being taken seriously.
Me? I don't believe any role is easy. It's fine though.
Well if I started playing killer everyone will just be like "you're not in high mmr yet." When I started playing this game I played.pretty much all killer fpr hundreds of hours, but apparently I wasnt in high mmr. So I just want to know how long do I have to play getting mostly 3 and 4k's until I am "high mmr."
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I mean
@Fluffyxox said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3816734#Comment_3816734
You're so beyond wrong about that its insane. Playing survivor is the easiest stress free ######### on the planet. Gen speeds are so unbalanced that if the killer doesnt bring 3-4 slowdown, you can pop 5 gens within 4 minutes. You don't even need to be good at looping, a 4 pallet chase is 3 gens done.
Well the statistics say otherwise. And also the devs say killer is the "power role" so are they lying? Like I said in my other reply I dont even necesarily disagree with that, I just think solo que has gotten a little too oppressive. It will definitely repel new players, that's for sure.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820399#Comment_3820399
Maps: While some have become what you said, just as many are the opposite (off hand we can think of about 6 and arguably 7 maps unless your definition of unsafe is a long the lines of "m1 killer can't do anything about it"). That's also not counting how some maps are beneficial or detrimental to certain killers. Offerings aside, it's RNG and affects both roles.
Aura/Distortion: You do have a point in that it does make it harder to stealth but at the same time there are tells for many aura reading perks. People don't need distortion to stealth, it's just easier with it.
In this case that evidence would be things like the statistical advatage killer has as well as the fact that the dc and hook suicding epidemic is worse now then it was when there wasnt even a penalty for dcing.
What statistical advantage can you use to confirm it's easy though? As we've previously said, that 60/40 has its own variables that don't tell the roles difficulties. The DC and Hook swinging is a player problem and shouldn't be counted as a "real" match ("real match" defined as: everyone playing and making a effort to escape/kill). Meanwhile yes DCs and hook swings make playing killer easier when it happens, but does that make the role itself easy?
We don't think MMR is a issue with this for reasons no one will listen to, but that's a different topic we think.
I mean you can downplay the statistical advantage all you want but its the only truly objective measure so..
Also the devs have literally said they want the killer to be the stronger role. I'm not even saying thats wrong, but they have gone a bit too far making survivor especially solo que feel too oppressive. Sometimes even slight changes can make a big difference. And as for dcs and hook suicides, I look at that as more an indicator of the problem, whether it makes killer easier or not is not really the point. Mmr is definitely an issue in my opinion as well because there seems be no rhyme or reason who I get matched with. I can be on a winning streak and get matched with brand new players and killers, then on a losing streak match with expert players. I mean we can argue about this forever but the spate of survivors giving up; if it just bratty baby survivors why is it worse now than it has ever been from most accounts, including even times when there was no d/c penalty.
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@Hannacia said:
Cooldown of 20 seconds after pallet has been dropped would be ok. I think this perk is just unhealthy. Survivors crutch on it too hard and they don't even learn basic map layout and common pallet spawns.
Also as a soloQ enjoyer im kinda tired of seeing windows users drop 10 pallets in one chase and leaving nothing for the rest of us. As a killer i use these survivors to farm the pallets out of the way so the rest of the game is easy breezy.
If a windows user drops 10 pallets then they suck either way no matter what perks they are using
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@Atom7k said:
I'm willing to die on this hill but they absolutely should nerf windows of opportunity into the ground. It is the most used survivor perk for a very long time and across the board for all mmr ranges.
It provides a huge amount of advantage to survivors to the point even new players can double their chase time.I'm willing to die on the hill that windows should be basekit (with ability to turn off). Along with kindred and unreakable. It might make kill rates go down to 58% though, so we can't have that, can we?
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820442#Comment_3820442
If you genuinly think this I am baffled, yes there are 37 killers but not 37 are unique, knowing how to loop will singlehandedly counter all m1 killers bar spirit, then you have dash killers, whose counterplay mostly involves using the limited turning rate or obstacles to avoid a hit, not all of them are the same but avoiding their attacks is very similar. Poryectile killers? The baiting and dodging is mostly the same, if fact some of them are outright easier to face once you face another killer, if you know how to dodge a huntress unknowns UVX is painfully easy to dodge.
Both killer and survivor have things they have to learn, to think like that is honestly very rookie mentality at best or just plain dishonest at worst.
Also survivors give up for lost of reasons, some legitimate like your team griefing or a killer thats purposely doing obnoxious things, but other are just entitled players, I have had people DC on me as no slowdown no addons slinger in badham because they got sniped, those people are 100% delusional in their view of the game.
Loop in the maps with non-existent loops? And every projectile killer is exactly the same? Okay. Anyone who uses the word entitled unironically I know not to take seriously about anything anyway.
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@DNet89 said:
WoO doesn't need a nerf directly but the way to Counter it needs a buff. That being the Blindness Status Effect. Killers of have 5 perks and 20 Add-ons to cause it. Ultimate Weapon used to be good but it got nerfed pretty hard. Septic Touch is just Trash. Third Seal is a Hex and bad against SWF. There's Knockout but that doesn't help in Chase and Finally Mindbreaker which only last for 5 seconds after when you stop repairing. Now they could add the Blindness Effect to more perks like Deathbound, Iron Maiden, Dragons Grip, Hubris, or Make your Choice to make those perks even more Scary since most cause the Exposed Status effect.
Alternatively they Could do what they do with Iron Will and Make the Perk deactivate when Exhausted.
That's because blindness is too strong against solo que and literally makes it almost impossible for solo que to win. In fact hex third seal should be taken out of the game. Why are killer mains obsessed with making survivor as weak as the basic enemy in a pve game.
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@squbax said:
Dbd players in general cannot handle defeat. Should I learn how the killers power works and try fun tricks? No the killer is underwhelming, I DC and complain online. Should I learn how the power works so I can counter the killer? No I just go next on hook/Dc and complain how op the killer is.
As someone who has played since 2016, this actitude has always been a staple of dbd, players would rather ignore all tool the game gives you if that means they dont have to admit they might be having a skill issue. That trickster player you mention and the people who give up once they fail a chase/get a killer they dont like, are prime examples of the dbd player archetype aka someone who cannot handle the game not being an easy win.
Sure is easier for killers than survivors huh. Survivors have to learn how to counter 37 different killers while killers have to learn to counter...one survivor with maybe a few different perks that dont really make much of a difference. Oh and flashlights and flashbangs. Wonder why so many survivors give up these days.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
Alright, I'll bite. I've got a few
Windows of Opportunity - Not objectively overpowered by any means, but I think it needs a nerf. The amount of people who are very clearly not good at the game and use this with Lithe to just hold W from pallet to pallet to window is annoying to see. It's braindead gameplay and the perk will play the game for you if you let it. Not conducive towards players actually learning the game properly, the definition of a crutch that could do with becoming a bit less appealing.
Sprint Burst - Allows you to play far too safe. Massive snoozefest, especially against killers with a lack of catchup. Makes me roll my eyes every time I see someone run into the sunset from a gen for the seventh time this game.
And to be fair… I'll throw in some killer ones too.
Hex: Pentimento - Genuinely one of the most obnoxious perks in the game as it stands, and super problematic for various reasons. That much global slowdown is a nightmare, especially against soloq if you're not paying attention to where hexes are cleansed. This perk does not stop being a powerhouse against SWF, though. Playing around a 3 gen or a hook with Pentimento up is EXTREMELY strong.
Spirit Fury - More specifically the synergy with Enduring. Extremely cheap combo that results in free hits just by playing the game. By itself it's fine.
Franklin's Demise - GRAHHHHHHHHH GIVE ME MY FLASHLIGHT BACK!!! Genuinely though I think instead of draining charges, it should consume items again now that it no longer works with Limited Items. There's currently basically no chance of getting your item back with any useable amount of charges, and if the items flat out disappeared after a long period of time (i think it was like 90 seconds, could go to 120 maybe?), it'd nerf Franklin's/Weave since it wouldn't be indefinite.
More importantly however, I think there are FAR more perks that need buffs at the moment, and more urgently than a lot of perks need a nerf. Like most of these perks aren't completely destroying the games they're in, they just have issues one way or another. Except Pentimento, screw Pentimento.
Such a strange argument to say survivors using windows are "not good at the game." I mean what does that even mean. If they escape they are by definition good at the game whether they had windows or not. Do you also think that killers that win by using noed or the new predator are "not good at the game" because those are perks that actually reward you for being bad at the game. All widows does is show you what resources you have, you still have to actually know how to take advantage of them. And considering how overpowered killer is right now survivors need all the help they can get. A lot of perks like windows and kindred should really just be made basekit.
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@TheGopher said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820181#Comment_3820181
There is only one way to use it and it's countered by survivors just not doing random totems
Lit totems should always be destroyed because there's a very good chance one could be devour hope.