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doobiedo
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@Aceislife said:
You need to have an EMP on your hand. If you don't have one, all you can do is break line of sight the best you can and pray. The Singularity is damn near impossible to counter without an EMP.
I feel like they need to have more emp boxes for this reason. Sometimes its so hard to find one
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@MissiCiv said:
Tbh BHVR should nerf the top 10 perks on both sides to the ground, the games in chaos are so fun!! maybe just dont touch otr and ds for the tunneling problem
I don"t see how this will help anything or how it has anything to.do with chaos shuffle mode. It will just make a new meta form with what are now the best perks.
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@Brimp said:
I mean yeah no mystery that exhaustion does way too much for little to no downside.
Well considering how high kill rates are already, if you nerf all the best survivor perks it will be too high even for Bhvr. and they will have to either buff survivor or nerf killer to compensate. Either way killer mains will complain because the game isnt tilted ENOUGH in their favor.
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@ShiroSaburo said:
Survivors with no windows of opportunity and exhaustion perks are having a very hard time looping. These perks are officially a crutch proven by Chaos Shuffle.
I think it's high time to nerf these perks especially Windows of Opportunity? It's helping the survivors too much.
It's the opposite of what you say. It shows how killers are so powerful now that survivors need perks to compete.
@Lost_Boy said:
Window of opportunity is never ever getting nerfed I wish people would stop asking for it. It's way too important for newer players trying to get to know the game maps considering theres a huge amount of maps these days with multiple configurations.
Its definitely a crutch perk though I mean if you run some blindness builds you'll see people go from being okay at looping to absolute garbage running into walls and stuff because for some reason not only does their map knowledge go away but also there environmental awareness. I can understand the first part but don't really get the second.
Just because a perk can be a crutch perk in some cases doesn't mean it always is. If a player always runs into walls without it they're not going to play that good with it either.
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I will reapond to
@RpTheHotrod said:
Looping is definitely still a thing. Here, I'll even intentionally get hit just to grab the killer's attention, or if I lose them, make my position known to try to regain their attention. Don't mind the killer shack pallet drop, I was sick that day and not thinking, lol.
Looping is easier than it's ever been with the amount of loop perks available these days. The only trouble you have are killers who specifically have anti-loop built into their kit.
Looping is definitely not easier than it has ever been, that is just ridiculous to say considering there used to be infinites everywhere and instead now there are deadzones everywhere. Obviously like I said I was exxagerating but looping is definitely harder than it uaed to be considering new map design and nerfs to existing maps.
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@danielmaster87 said:
How are you not able to loop, bro? Even the weakest pallets are playable. Heck, walls and rock and playable if it's a 110% killer. You'll still go down, but that's the point of running the killer. You're supposed to be wasting as much of his time as possible before getting downed, not 1v1ing him. I admit that being put with a weak team puts stress on you and can mess up your looping, but again this all comes back to if your team is collectively good or not. If it is, you'll have no problems against 90% of killers. If you just equip windows, you'll see all the loops there are so you can play your route. I notice a lot of the people complaining about killer chases aren't using the perk. Yes, there's deadzones in some of these maps, but that's RNG and isn't scripted to happen every time. Given bad RNG, you can still make most maps work. Work on the unsafe gens in the beginning, or save them til the end. Each carries risks, but that's the point. You're not supposed to have foolproof stuff to use against the killer, because they don't have anything foolproof either. Good killers have lost to mediocre survivors who were either decent on gens OR looping, not even both. So I don't know what else to tell you; survivor isn't hard. Stop taking bad matchups because of bad teammates, or potentially your own lack of game sense, and always concluding that the killer or map is unfair. If you play killer, a lot, you will see how hard they have it.
Im not going to respond to all of this because you obviously didnt read my post where I clarified and said i was exxagerating and venting after having some bad games. Obvously looping still exists in the game. However you show how biased you are in some of your other statements. Survivor is actually hard 20% harder in fact than killer based on statistics. Killer is easy mode in the game now, and like I have said I actually started playing only killer, but over time played survivor more and more because killer is so easy now.
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@Sngfun said:
No, we are currently going though a DC pandemic. Whith any punsihment for dcing gone, survivors are free to DC as they want
People DC because there is often no point playing as survivor. People get sick of games where there is literally nothing you can do. I hope Bhvr. does something soon to make playing survivor seem slighty less oppressive.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806845#Comment_3806845
Where is that 1 minute? Average first chase time was showed to be years ago 40 seconds when maps were much stronger for survivors. Killer gets stronger longer match goes so chase times go even faster. 1 minute chase is very long in current dbd.
Its one minute per match for each survivor not per chase
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Vecna is definitely up there if they know what they're doing and you dont have any of the magic items.
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I
@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807152#Comment_3807152
I don't think any of his guides really works in practice. If you check his streams, you'll realize he doesn't hold particularly long. And yes, looping is hard.
Watch how he plays the best loop in the entire game (Garden of Joy) and still gets downed in 30 sec:
https://www.twitch.tv/mr_tatorhead/clip/RepleteAmazingKumquatBabyRage-57_WQ5UzSHFMm7DI
Unlike the above links, this clip does not come from cherry-picked Youtube videos. It comes from his real gameplay (from his live a few hours ago, I can find dozens of clips like that).
Ironically, I think OP did a pretty good job at summarizing what's wrong with looping:
- Can't take the strong loop because of anti-loop power
- Tries it, gets hit anyway because of ping
- Best strategy ends up being hold W
I mean he's still a really good player though. Espeially considering he doesnt use any perks.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807019#Comment_3807019
Most of these looping spots are just glorified 50/50s. They can look cool because sometimes he happens to win them several times in a row. But even his example clips you can see he's getting hit several times. There are stronger places to loop on each of these maps, recommending that to new players is questionable at best, if not misleading.
The Dead Dawg spot in particular is ridiculous., It's way too long to work, the killer will catch you with bloodlust even if you make the window. I can't think an "experienced" player can suggest this and think it genuinely works. I've played killer for more than 1000 hours and I don't think I've seen even one survivor try to loop it in this specific pattern, it's just absurd.
Also no offense to Tatorhead but if you watch his actual gameplay on stream he is not the incredibly good looper that the titles of his videos seem to imply. Just like the majority of these god survivor Youtubers, in reality he escapes less than 50% of his games.
I like tatorhead, but he likes to imply looping is easier than it actually is. His advice, while good, will nornally only apply in an exact area and exact circumstance that you are unlikely to be in. Now because he has like 10000 hours or whatever, he will always know the best thing to do. I don't really like running map offerings, so I don't ever end up in the situation that I watched his video about.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807068#Comment_3807068
cause the loop is broken, yet for some reason, Lery has among highest kill-rates in the game. i don't even understand it. i think otz puts this map as one of most killer favored maps in the game in his map tier list.
Really? That surprises me. There's so many windows you can chain together.
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@Dreamnomad said:
I don't think most survivors have a high bar for what they expect from the killer. They just don't want to be tunneled, camped, or slugged for an excessive amount of time. I'm sure there are others that might add to the list. But in general, just realize that real human beings are on the other side of those pixels. Treat them the way you would want to be treated. Golden rule and all.
Its really Bhvr's fault though. They are terrible at balancing, like the meme is true that it seems like they don't play their own game
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807055#Comment_3807055
it is required in the design but honestly, against some of these loops, if survivor knows what they're doing, your not really catching them like Lery loop. the good news is, a lot of people don't play survivor well. Like how many people actually know how to run Lery's window loops? You know?
Lery is one of the easier ones actually, one map I actually like.
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@SamuelHopkins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807024#Comment_3807024
They made the map smaller it's so much easier to go from pallet to pallet. I stack loops like a hamburger.
Which map? As far as I'm aware Bhvr has not made any map stronger, they have only nerfed them.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807035#Comment_3807035
Dude, have some respect. Survivors read posts too, you can hurt their delicate mental organization. 1 minute is not even 1 generator, killers are op, looping doesn't exist, period. Save your math for exact sciences, оk?
Killers are statistically OP. Having a 20 percent chance better chance to win (actually probably higher than that) is OP.
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@SamuelHopkins said:
This post is ridiculous. Insane skill issue and tears. I can loop a killer for 5 gens and you cry here on the forums.
You must feel proud of yourself.
Good job I can loop a baby killer for 5 gens too. Too bad I'm in a higher mmr where the killer actually knows how to play. And like I said I was exxagerating because I was venting after having a bunch of bad games in a row, but the general trend is still true.
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@H2H said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806929#Comment_3806929
Don't hard tunnel. Don't hard camp. Don't intentionally make the game miserable for the survivors.I wish this was true. Even the most recent game I played from last night, I didn’t tunnel, I didn’t camp, I didn’t slug, I didn’t bring gen slowdown, I didn’t 3 gen. I got a 2K and what did I see in endgame chat?
“L lightborn user, touch grass and learn to play”
Yup. I brought lightborn like I usually do counter flashbangs, didn’t even end up using it that game, but no, I need to “learn to play.”
There’s no way to make survivors happy. They will always find something to complain about the way killers play.
Yes because the game is so unbalanced. Blame Bhvr. for making the game feel so oppressive for survivors.
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I like mr tatorhead but its like, I dont have time to watch an entire video on one loop or a really long video on one map, and then who knows when I will actually get that map and be in that situation.
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@Huge_Bush said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806842#Comment_3806842
I don’t even have to loop much (I’m bad at it). I just let go of the gen and run when I see the killer coming towards me in the distance. It’s a 50/50 if they kick the gen or come for me and then I just go around the same pallet two times (I know we can juice it for three but I’m a coward) and then I use Lithe to gain more distance and breaks LoS and Bush away or waste more of their time at another pallet. Usually 2 gens are done by the time they down me if it’s at the start of the match and my teammates aren’t allergic to gens.
I think some people just won’t be happy until the map spawns three shacks that have two windows.
Well i'm in too high of mmr or something. Every killer knows every trick. But even when I have a giant losing streak nothing changes. I don't get it.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806860#Comment_3806860
And still somehow people want killers to go for 12 hooks. How are you supposed to go for 12 hooks when the first 8 are going to take 8 minutes. And that doesn't even factor in the time it takes to start those chases.
Read the whole thread. That is average chase time per match, not per chase. So your math would be 2 minutes 40 seconds for 8 hooks.
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@Anti051 said:
Yeah, this sort of thing has gotten a little out of hand. You shouldn't press the ready button unless you're actually ready for whatever might be coming your way.
- Kobe attempts need to go (primary use of the mechanic is pretty clear by now).
- Incentives for not DCing need to be a thing.
- DC penalty should be a little more steep.
The problem is if Bhvr. doesn't fix the game first then this will just cause survivors either afk, disrupt the game in other ways, or at worst just stop playing. I understand killer players want to force survivors to be trapped in their torture chamber as long as they feel like holding them there, but "punishing" survivors for this and removing kobe will just add new layers to the toxicity already present in the game.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806845#Comment_3806845
Average chase time per match, not average chase time per chase.
So a survivor who is killed in 3 hook stages is getting an average of about 20 seconds of chase before being downed.
And 1 minute of chase time per match isn't even one gen.
Ha we each made like the exact same post at the same time.
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@fussy said:
Average chase in this game is above 1 min, wdym? If you can't chase 5 gens anymore, it doesn't mean there is no looping.
No it's not. That statistic was that each player is chased for 1 mintute throughout the ENTIRE MATCH. Please we have enough misinformation on here. So if you are chased 3 times one for each state that would be 20 seconds.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3806835#Comment_3806835
I play 70-80% survivor and always soloQ but sure… I still stand behind my words. Looping is valid. Learn which killers require more W smashing and who you can loop around a pallet.
I mean obviously I am exaggerating to some extent. The general trend I stand behind though. Like okay shack or some main buildings looping can make sense depending on the killer, but just so many situations you try to loop you'll go down faster because of all the unsafe pallets and every killer has some anti-loop power or perk, or they'll have haste for some reason other, they'l have a wallhack perk so you can't mindgame them. Most of the time I have to pre-drop pallets because I can't be sure I'll even be able to get around one time before they catch up to me.
Also why is it that when I go on a losing streak of 10 games I dont ever get a more inexperienced killer. Sometimes I really think the whole idea there is mmr in this game is just made up.
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@Philscooper said:
since the update,
it feels like he can spam tentecle every secound even if he misses or uses a pallet
i dont know why, i cant handle him basically spamming that ######### so much
i know this is probably a skill issue but at the same time i never had this problem before the buff
why is he all of a sudden so god damn oppresive?
even gunslinger and executioner have a very noticable cooldown
yet he feels like huntress 2.0 which makes me feel miserable playing against unless its the obvious bot nemesis
worst part that his tentecle is ping-reliant, so you know people with mcdonalds wifi love abusing him now besides huntress and gunslinger.
and yes, i know im not supposed to get the dream match or easy match every game,
but christ man. i legit cant handle a decent nemy now and its so frustrating asfBecause Bhvr. has decided to make killer easy mode. They wont fix it unless survivor players stop playing.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805887#Comment_3805887
There isn't much evidence to support nor dismiss your claim. The only proof I can find comes from CoD and Fall Guys which have both done the same thing. CoD clearly is doing really well, and Fall Guys not so much. However, there's no evidence to say the successes or failures are down to this.
I still believe it's worth trying, even if it's done secretly, so players don't know they are being sorted in such a way. That way, disconnecting players will more likely to play each other, whilst players who don't will face each other more, making less frustrating games.
As you do point out, this hasn't been done on an asymetrical game before (or at least none I know of), so that is an unknown factor. I still feel the benefits outweigh the cons though.
They shouldn't do it anyway. This game is basically un-winnable for survivors at this point most of the time unless the killer is playing nice.(maybe slight exaggeration but not much.) I just had 10 games in a row that were over in the first 30 seconds. Bhvr. can fix their game first, then maybe I'll listen to complaints and suggestions like this.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805887#Comment_3805887
There isn't much evidence to support nor dismiss your claim. The only proof I can find comes from CoD and Fall Guys which have both done the same thing. CoD clearly is doing really well, and Fall Guys not so much. However, there's no evidence to say the successes or failures are down to this.
I still believe it's worth trying, even if it's done secretly, so players don't know they are being sorted in such a way. That way, disconnecting players will more likely to play each other, whilst players who don't will face each other more, making less frustrating games.
As you do point out, this hasn't been done on an asymetrical game before (or at least none I know of), so that is an unknown factor. I still feel the benefits outweigh the cons though.
I mean either way it shouldn't be done because it would just be a dick move. Essentially Bhvr. saying "yes we made the game essentially unwinnable for solo que unless the killer is playing nice, but then we're going to punish you for not being stuck in unwinnable games". Like how about Bhvr. balance their game. I just had 10 games in a row where the game was lost in the first 30 seconds. I'm sick of situations where there is literally nothing you can do which happens all the time now because there are no safe loops in the maps, just deadzones, every killer has an anti-loop power anyway, plus teleportation, aura reading so they get walllhacks. It's just ridiculous. And then you want to punish survivors for not wanting to stay in the killer torture chambers. Just no. Bhvr. needs to buff survivors, fix the maps, or something. Not punish survivors who supposedly make up the majority of the playerbase. I would hope if Bhvr. did try something that stupid that it would actually kill the game. And also on a related tangent, why is it when I lose like 10 times in a row it doesn't seem to put me in any lower mmr and I still get every sweaty killer who is such a loser they have to slug for the 4k.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Normally I come into these threads and say something like “this game is in a great spot right now!” or something positive but lately this game hasn’t been fun on either side.
I’m an OCE player so every second game I’m shoved into Asian servers with high ping because for some reason they decided to merge us awhile ago. I can’t even talk to anyone in post game chat because we don’t speak the same language so it feels lonely. Certain killers like Wraith are unplayable due to the ping because his post uncloak lunge literally doesn’t work!
Killer is miserable right now because of the insane amount of throwers and toxicity. One game you get completely destroyed and the toxicity makes you feel like a complete failure and then the next game starts decent but then someone throws and now you are just stuck in a game that ended 5 minutes ago. Then the cycle repeats. It’s not fun at all, even when you win.
Survivor is just as miserable. Solo queue feels like playing Russian Roulette but with 5 bullets. Every game is either the killer trying to make the game as bad as possible, getting paired with a killer really below your MMR so you just feel awful stomping them and watching your team BM after, an actually decent game but oh no! Meg didn’t like that the killer played Dracula so I guess it’s a loss now. Solo queue was always meh but tunnellers and throwers have made it unbearable.
I haven’t played this game longer than 1-2 games this past few weeks because it honestly feels depressing to play.
Balance wise, the game is in a pretty spot. But the insane amount of toxicity, tunneling, throwers have made the game feel awful to play right now.
Sorry for the huge rant hahaha!I don't kow how you can say all that but then say the balance is a good spot, lol. I mean something is definitely off if you have that many complaints.
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Ironically everyone with punitive ideas like this to "punish" rage quitters are expressing their own rage. What a cycle. I think a lot of the times when players "go next" its not even due to rage but just bordeom.
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@JohnnyRash247 said:
So, I play Surv and Killer equally. I have over 4000hrs. As of right now, Surv Solo Q is still weak to Killer but SWF's have never been stronger. When I get a good swf together we can win game after game after game. All you have to do is loop the killer at 3 different locations which isnt hard to do at all or better yet take him to 3 pallets and do at least 1-2 loops before dropping the pallet and your team can finish 2 gens easily. Super easy to do with voice comms and a swf you practice with.
The point im trying to get at it is this; I used to enjoy playing surv and killer but now I only enjoy playing Surv. Killer matchs for me are at a point where unless im a top tier killer, Gens are flying. Its just not fun anymore to play avg killers. Not only that im proud im one of the survivor players that isnt being obnoxious in the exit gates. Its every other match with a avg killer you have survs that wont leave they just sit in exit gate and t-bag. So when I play Killer im pressured to use the top tier killers instead of trying out different builds on weaker killers.
I hope the gen rushing gets addressed because as I said, Solo Q hasnt changed much but SWFs are Soooooo strong now. I enjoy looping killers in all honesty but if im being honest and if other people are honest, its never been this easy imo.
The thing is statistics say otherwise. Also how do these streamers manage to get like over 1000 game winstreaks on killer. Just lucky enough not to go against your swf I guess?
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@Marc_go_solo said:
As much as I dislike people who disconnect over the most immature of things, this isn't the answrr. As one person said earlier, we have just removed Prestiges in pre-game lobbies to reduce lobby-dodging, so bringing in another is problematic.
However, what you stated about Killer Instinct having "rage-quit only lobbies" I would back, so people who keep disconnecting can be put with likewise players and maybe start to understand the frustrations it causes.
Any sort of attempt to deal with this issue in a punitive way like that would probably actually kill the game. Its one thing to have a que like that in an actually balanced game but dbd is not that.
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@Valimure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805129#Comment_3805129
Yes, because seeing the auras of the things you're trying to patrol / protect and seeing every escape route available to you on the map are totally the same thing.
It's clear you're incredibly biased. I'd recommend playing some killer matches so you can actually get some perspective.
I used to play killer but I stopped because it has gotten too easy. When I first started playing I only played killer. I mean I didn't expect a 4k every game so maybe thats why I feel that way. Obviously once in awhile you will run into a super good squad that makes it difficult but I actually liked those games because then I could use any tactic to win without feeling bad. Most games I would purposely try to spread hooks and not slug or anything and I would still get 3 or 4k the majority of the time.
I just don't understand this viewpoint that because windows is used so much that automatically means its too strong. It could also mean that its just something that should.be basekit like the generator auras for killer. Everyone seems to think that it would make the killers job way harder but I just don't think so. If I was wrong then they could buff killers to compensate. I just think that anything that narrows the disparity between solo que and swf is good for the health of the game. If somehow bringing solo que closer to the level of swf ends up making kill rates go down or something then they can buff killer to.bring it back up and the game will be in a better state overall. Just my opinion but people don't like change so they only see the negative side.
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@Chiky said:
it's fun because when I play clown (my build is just blind perks) you can 100% tell who plays WOO and who doesnt by the way they just ran into walls when you blind them...
The perk does need an activation time. "When you become injured, Windows of Opportunity activates it for 20/25/30 seconds."
Sadly, survivor mains who can't play without training wheels will always complain and defend it so...
As soon as they stop letting killers see aura's of generators I'll stop saying windows should be basekit. If it was just "training wheels" I wouldnt see streamers with over 8000 hours using it.
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@francesinhalover said:
anti loop killers already destroy average survivors. And you guys want to take away theyr only means to counterplay lol
Hell a killer doesn't even need anti loop. I lose like 90% of my solo q games and everyone has windows.
Windows does not need to be nerfed it needs to be basekit (and able to be turned on or off) along with kindred. Whenever I say this everyone cries but I will die on that hill. Maybe I wouldn't think this if the maps weren't all being nerfed and the new maps completely killer sided. Sick of people saying windows takes away skill from the game, it does not, it just lets you know what resources you have available, not how to use them efficiently. Main reason I want this though is it will help narrow the gap between solo que and swf.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804165#Comment_3804165
How many times do I need to say it?
Killers need to find Survs to chase. Survs are often near gens, so they need to know where their gens are to find Survivors. They need to have an idea of where their "flags" that Survivors "capture" are for that reason. This game is capture the flag meets tag meets hide and seek. Protecting gens is to a point part of the description of Killer. It's not arbitrary, it's not "taken for granted". It's part of the game basekit, the same way other things are part of the basic game balance.
To make this game work in the 1v4, Killers need to know where gens are to strategize against the team. It helps them, basically, plan things out because they are alone working against four people, so they HAVE to think and plan quickly across the whole map, which means they need to know basically the whole map. They can't really go looking for Survs at the start if they have no clue where Survivors will be because they have no clue where gens will be… or do you really think it's fair to make Killers waste even more time searching for gens and also Survivors instead of just… chasing Survivors? That doesn't seem right or very fair to me at all that you think Survivors need to know where all resources are at, but not Killers.
You cannot seriously think the game would be better if the Killer had to flail around looking for where Survs are just GUESSING where gens MIGHT be on the map from the word go, my guy. That's like saying Survivors should never get haste after being hit, have no pallets, and have no loops. Those are all Survivor resourced the way gens are part of a Killer's resources to protect and prevent Survivors from escaping. Holding down gens is how they waste Survivor time to get Kills, and gens are where Survivors cluster so it makes sense they know where gens are to check for Survivors easier to chase them. They are supposed to guard them to some degree and there's even an emblem for it, because guarding gens means preventing the Survivor's objective means more time for their objective. Why are you asking to take away a functionality basekit that helps Killers chase Survivors, isn't that what we want Killers to do more of? Chase, I mean?
You're just too biased to discuss this with. I was just using the generators thing as an example but you take it all literally. Also if i was to say lets reduce the kill rate by 1% you say "you want to go down to 50% kill rate and let killera never get 4k". It's like you see everything in black and white.
My whole point was just saying people act like its insane to even considet making windows basekit but they just accept the generator auras as a matter of course. I am just saying i think the game has gone SLIGHTLY too far killer sided as of late, I am not saying to go back to 50% kill rate. You disagree with me, fine, but don't imply that I am saying something I am not.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803798#Comment_3803798
Because friend, and let's say this together now… Killers need to be able to know where gens are to help find where Survivors are. They need it to cut down chase. They need it to find their hooks in a timely manner. They need it so they don't waste time on their goals.
Sorta like how Survivors need loops and pallets to be able to hold their own in a chase because they are slower than Killers. It's called a basekit mechanic. It's not going anywhere.
Meanwhile, you don't, definitley DO NOT need that info as Survivor. There's bright yellow fabric on every vault and all pallets are red and blue, WoO is not a necessity even in SoloQ. Hell, I escape games without it all the time.
Please just admit you think SoloQ players are stupid and need this autopilot perk to do well. They don't. I don't think they do. And I see lots wrong with free info you get just for loading in as Surv on all routes in the map, but nothing wrong with just making it have a teensy-tiny cooldown; how would that impact how the perk works at all? Tell me, why do YOU think Survivors deserve to freely know where everything is, but Killers shouldn't get that at all?
My point is that it's just taken for granted that one is okay and other is not but its just arbitrary. You just walk around the map you' ll find the generators, they are not that far apart, when survivors are working on them you will hear them, etc. I mean, you are saying survivors are stupid if they need windows, well it sounds to me like killers are stupider if they can't even find the generators that literally make a sound while vaults and pallets do not. So basically I am just pointing out a double standard that is there for no reason. I'm not saying killers shouldn't be able to see the generators, I'm just saying that the idea that one is automatically fine while the other is not is not valid. Since Bhvr. wants to make this into completely a chase oriented game they should lean into it, let both sides know what resources they have available and then whoever can actually execute the best will win. If WoO just causes survivors to run from pallet to pallet dropping them then they will use up all the resources and make an easy win for the killer anyway, so even with it they will still have to develop skill to actually use that information in an effective way.
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@adaw0ng said:
Every other game I play of solo queue I run into players giving up on first hook no matter what killer, perks, map or even game mode (it's been happening in modifiers too.) It's a literal pandemic and it's getting impossible to play a normal game from beginning to end that is not a 3v1 at 5 or 4 gens because a survivor rage quits. As killer when I face this it's also boring and it makes me lose interest in queueing up for the next match.
4% is an outdated (and unfair) mechanic anyways, so maybe it's time to completely remove it and leave self-unhooking to perks that play around that (example: deliverance). Start being harsh with quitting/dcing/AFK-ing penalties. At this point it's seriously ridiculous and no other game I play has this situation where players instantly disconnect or rage-afk literally 10 seconds into the game and make it impossible for the full lobby to play. It's literally the only reason that makes me stop the game after a few matches if I get this often since I am literally not allowed to play a normal game and there is no forfeit option of any kind (Overwatch has it, League of Legends has it, and so on and so forth).
Please, be harsher on this since it's becoming such an issue and it will affect always new players more actually, since they will quickly move on from the game and not bother at all if they see the athmosphere is so negative and people just rage quit every other match. This will not be a good look for those new players coming next year for FNAF, for example.
Please, take into consideration adding a forfeit tab if there is an early leaver ("remake system" from League of Legends, or Overwatch), and start being harsher on quitting penalties. It's ridiculous that you can ruin other people's games like this without any concern of getting punished at the moment.
The thing is keeping the self- unhook allows Bhvr to not have to worry as much about making sure survivor players are happy with the balance of the game. If survivors feel trapped in games they feel they have no way to win then some might stop playing or disrupt the game in other ways. I can't see them "cracking down" on this like so many want. Instead Bhvr. should work on balancing the game better so survivor players don't feel they have no chance to win as often. (Or honestly they should have just kept the de-pip mechanic. The removal of that definitely increased the amount of players letting go on first hook.)
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802815#Comment_3802815
Nearly every hero/champion/legend game has a ban function; it isn't too complicated, nor would it destroy people's ability to play their favorite character. Plus optional features aren't even used more often than a coinflip (50%). That means even if hypothetically there was a 100% banrate Killer, it would be a 50% banrate in reality at the worst. Hypothetically, if a Killer is so awful that someone who normally wouldn't use an optional feature starts using it against this specific Killer, that is obvious they would have ragequit any match with the Killer either by DCing or Kobes with no intention of winning.
I guess considering all the trouble the game already has with matchmaking I cant imagine that adding a new system that makes it way more complicated wouldn't cause problems.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802296#Comment_3802296
WoO should not be basekit, you don't need WoO to loop. Please use other perks, get off the crutch.
I almost, almost want WoO hard nerfed with a cooldown JUST to shut up the people who insist they "OMG NEEEEED IT" for soloQ. You don't. I have won in SoloQ without it plenty of times. You don't need this much info to loop properly. Ever.
Yes I don't "need" it and I run builds without it too, however it helps to narrow the gap between swf and solo que. Also why is it just accepted that killers get to see aura' s of all generators but the idea of windows being basekit is beyond the pale. As they nerf maps more and more I will just insist to the same degree that windows should be basekit so players can actually see the few windows.and pallets that are even left on the maps. I am even more conviced i am right about this as they nerf distortion and keep giving killers more and more wallhacks. If they are going to try and make it so killers know all the time where ths survivors are then the survivors should be entitled to know if a pallet has been dropped already. Its not such a big deal. Do you seriously think if they did make it basekit kill rate would go massively down or something?
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@adsads123123123123 said:
It isn't the new target. They've already been targeting this kill rate in the past. It's just that the information has now been publicised. I think that target is fine considering how many survivors grief their team, suicide on hook, run meme builds, and prioritise Tome challenges.
Well I think that's kind of circular reasoning. I think that part of the reason so many suicide on hook is because the game can be so oppressive for survivors.
Seriously though you guys act like I want killers to average 1 kill a game or something, like its such hyperbole. Did you think 2 v. 8 mode was terrible for killers because they got slightly less kills. ( Did they ever release official stats about that game mode by the way?)
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803745#Comment_3803745
How funny. You keep putting words in mine. Twisting mine.
You have not once even tried to explain why you think ANYTHING less than 60/40 in an assym is fair. You have ignored my stats. You have insulted me on these forums multiple times.
Please just stop. We get it. You're a Survivor-only Main who wants Killers to struggle and never win rounds so you can get an assured out half the time. It's alright to admit this. Just admit your biases.
I used to play killer and survivor about equally ( in fact when I started I only played killer.) I have just gradually played killer less over time because I tend to want to challenge myself more, and I don't think even you would argue that solo que survivor is not the harder role, would you?
I started posting on these forums just because I see a lot of fallacious arguments and it seems like those on the killer side tend to dominate the discussion so I wanted to balance it out a bit. When I say I think the kill rate has gotten too high I am saying by like a few percentage points, you are acting like I said I think kill rates should go under 50%. And like I said before I am mainly thinking of new players when I say this. Like over time I have gotten into a higher mmr where I escape a lot more but I still remember when I was stuck in mmr hell when I started playing survivor and barely ever escaped and I just think such an unbalanced experience for new players is not the best.
I will say the one thing that probably originally drove me to start posting here was when for awhile every killer was running frank n' weave, an absolutely broken combo but then every killer main flooded the echo chamber in here saying it was perfectly fine and fair and balanced, and that's when I realized the other side needed to be represented more.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803712#Comment_3803712
the vast majority of killer have below 60% kill-rate with many killers having a much lower win-rate then 50%. the stats don't suggest that that killer is easy mode. if anything, they seem suggest that killer is harder than it has ever been before.
How do the stats suggest that? I have never heard anyone say that killer is harder than it has ever been. I mean it obviously isn't.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803732#Comment_3803732
Then if you believe Killers should be the power role, you should be fine with a 60/40 split and also fine with a max killrate at 65%. No problems here and you're complaining about nothing.
I don't get you, every time I see you you're always saying how hard it is for Survivor. But I still win about 40% of my rounds fairly, all the time. I don't see how Killers are overpowered when my winrates have not changed as Survivor whatsoever beyond it being a little harder to easily cheese wins for free. I suspect it's the same for most Survivors, so I guess… what are you doing wrong to have such abysmal results every round?
I'm not even a Killer Main, I play both sides equally. And even I can see that actually, yeah, it really is just about Survivor entitlement. It really, truly is. Because this game is, and will always be, balanced at 60/40. JUst as the Devs want. It'll never be lower than that ever again for the rest of its lifetime because the Devs do not want it to be for the health of the game. This is healthy, they believe it's healthy, because it's 100% *fine* and actually a true 50/50 at this rate regardless of what you say. If that is a problem for you so badly it ruins your game, maybe the game is just no longer for you.
And yes, saying you want Killrates lower because you think it's unhealthy whether you mean it or not, IS saying you believe Killers should never win and Survs should always get two guaranteed wins a round. Because that is what would happen at a true 50/50, and was in fact what happened in the past. Amd what happened? It lead to a mass Killer exodus that almost ACTUALLY killed the game. We can't go back to less because if the game feels so bad at 50/50 for Killers that people leave the role over it, then it not only indicates Survivors actually need MORE nerfs, it means that 50% as a killrate clearly. Isn't. A healthy. Rate.
I don't understand how you are repeatedly failing to understand this.
Okay well you keep putting words in my mouth saying I said things I never said so there is no point in debating it. If you want to have an honest discussion then I will but you are just twisting my words; not even twisting them actually just straight up making up things you say I said.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803712#Comment_3803712
Because at 50/50, the Killers don't actually 3-4k half the time and do less the other half. They draw every round, while two Survivors always are guaranteed to win all the time.
At a 60/40, that is not true - that means a Killer 2-4ks about half the time, then 0-1ks about half the time. Meanwhile it means Survivors… have someone in the team escape about half the time. Balanced. Fair, though it doesn't look like it. A true 50/50
Meanwhile, a 50% winrate for both means a false 50/50. It means a 2k every single round, but that just means a guaranteed victory for two Survivors and a guaranteed no better than draw for Killer because of how the game calculates what a win for Killer is versus Survivor. A win for Survivor is them escaping, but a win for Killer is a 3k or better. If it's 50/50, then two Survs always win and the Killer NEVER gets better than a draw, so never wins.
So answer me this. Why do you believe, and why are you defending the idea that, Survivors always deserve a guaranteed 2 man out but Killers are never allowed to 4k?
That's not what I'm saying at all. I don't even think killers should not be the "power role" and I am fine with the killer side having the higher winrate. I just think the kill rate has gotten a bit too high for the health of the game, just a bit, especially because the killer role is so much easier for new players than the survivor role. I think it is evident that things have just gone a bit too far to one side when you consider things like how the amount of survivors giving up keeps rising.
I actually think a lot of people look at that issue in the wrong way incedentally. A lot of mainly killer players view it as an issue of "survivor entitlement," but I think its actually become more of an "escape valve" at this point. It allows Bhvr. to keep kill rates higher than is palpatable for most survivor players, but because they know they have the option to "go next" if the match is boring enough they don' t actually just stop playing the game. If Bhvr. took out the ability to do this, as many in the forums want, they would have to actually work a little harder to balance the game in a way that keeps both sides happy. For example, while I don't know what exactly the kill rates in the 2 v. 8 were, they were obviously lower than in the base game. Because it is so much harder to "go next" in that mode, I believe if the kill rates were as high in that mode as in the base game a lot of survivor players would have stopped playing it.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803471#Comment_3803471
i think 60% KR is pretty kinda low. i can only speak my own opinion when i play killer but i don't consider 0, 1k and 2k as wins as killer. i consider them as losses. I also don't sugar coat my losses or down-play my failures as killer player. a lot of player do like they'll say 2k is a draw, which i just see as downplaying losses which is fine if it makes you feel better.
I agree with his analysis that 65% is sweet spot for killer kill-rates.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/85LS5GDQ9T5H/image.png
Vecna here shows what is close to 65% kill-rate. 38.76+19.88 is 58.64%. i would aim for 60% win-rate for killer so it would be around 66% or 67%. I think most killer generally content with that type of win-rate if they one-trick the killer or have lot of gameplay experience with said killer.
Most killer are nowhere near that. as a result, the game is primarily considered survivor sided for most killers unless your like a new survivor player. you can look at ghostface's stat distribution.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/UCWHX6K8QB5I/image.png
he is nowhere near 60% and win-rate is like 45%. keep in mind, these all small sample sizes and not actual defined kill-rates. I do not think that it is realistic to expect every killer to be strong numerically but i think most important part about killers is them feeling good to play. If your having fun with a killer, you won't mind losing games as much because the killer is fun to play. a lot of these killer with disastrous stats don't really feel that fun or special to play. as a result, there isn't a whole reason to go out of your way to play a lot of weaker killers to lose.
I think the main conclusion I draw from this is BHVR shouldn't go above the 60% KR range, but also don't just gut killer powers like SM's.
I love playing as current skull merchant but i don't enjoy having to skip 1/3 of my games for d/c/give up ######### on hook. gutted skull merchant is not going to be fun to play for killer because the main appeal for skull merchant was the long over-time haste effect for landing successful claw traps onto the survivor. reaping said reward by chasing other survivors then ambushing the survivor with claw trap as it expires. Unfortunately survivor d/c vs the killer so it is whatever at this point.
Why do killers need almost a 60% win rate defined as 3 kills or above. Just another example how killer has become the "easy mode" role in this game. Also how is 2 kills not a draw. Like 2 escapes is literally a draw for both sides if you are thinking of the survivor side as a team game. (Since I play solo que I consider if only I escape as a win for myself still but I know a lot of survivor players don't think that way. )
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803700#Comment_3803700
Then you are and forever will be part of the problem. Because Killers only put those on because they feel they need them to deal with SURVIVOR meta.
If you want less sweaty games, take off the meta perks, play silly with a SWF, and forget about winning. That's what every single Killer eventually has to do when the game is too hard. Why wouldn't it be the same for Survivors?
I don't have a swf to play with and I dont like playing with voice chat anyway unless it was good friends of mine but I dont have any irl friends that play this game. So I will continue to play solo que and use my lithe, deja vu, WoO and ether kindred, bond or detective's hunch so I can hopefully at least keep my escape rate at 40-50%. I am also experimenting with a new wallhack build of alert, OoO, dark sense, and scene partner to counter the same thing becoming meta on the killer side.
I am looking forward to the new chaos shuffle 2.0 though I will say.
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@GonnaBlameTheMovies said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3803239#Comment_3803239
Then you do not play enough of the weaker Killers to realize why a 55-60% Killrate won't work. It has to be higher, a 62.5%, to even get a 2k or higher. Just a draw or higher. No Killer I know sees a draw as a win.
If Killrates need to be a whopping 62-65% to simply DRAW against decent Survivors, what does that tell you? Not that Killers need nerfs because they are too strong, but that Survivor perks and items are what need massive nerfs.
And that's pretty much what BHVR is doing here.
If you have to win as Survivor a lot to have fun, you probably are taking Survivor too seriously. Take off the Meta perks and learn the new maps like everyone else has to.
No. Why would I take off meta perks, the killers arent going to. Have to wait for chaos shuffle for that.
And as for the other stuff you are saying, your math is nonsense. How do killers need 62-65% winrate to get 2 kills. That average out to about 2.5 kills, well over 2 and halfway to 3. Also the one thing that would make Bhvr. tone down kill rates would be if survivors stop playing, the very thing you tell them to do.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3802447#Comment_3802447
I disagree with the person saying killers should be average. Killers should be at least B tier. And most of them are at least B tier and we have a lot of stronger killers than ever before
Isn't b tier average? If not then what tier is average, seems c tier is below average.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
I really don't think the game mode would work. I'm a killer main and even I think lights out is easier as survivor, that's why I played survivor to do the tome. Survivor mains are very difficult to please these days, like you say even with the extra buffs for survivors this time round still isn't good enough and I don't think anything will ever be good enough for a lot of people. Just seems to be the way it is, no matter what buffs survivors get or nerfs killers get survivors are never satisfied lol
Do you really think the mode is easier as survivor? I don't think you are being sincere. And why would survivors ever be satisfied when the statistics show the game is killer sided. Yeah you can say all you want killer is supposed to be the power role, but as long as the results are so lopsided survivors will keep complaining and feel justified to do so.