Lost_Boy
Lost_Boy
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- Lost_Boy
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He has a particular demographic of the DBD community following him that agree with every word & complaint he has about the game regardless if it's justified or not. A lot of times he makes small mistakes and blames the game design and fails to acknowledge his own mistakes & learn from them. He's not a bad player & has valid points, but his ego gets in the way and it's quite annoying at times listening to him. I feel a lot of his followers have the same problem and don't want to acknowledge their own mistakes so they look to streamers like Tru3 to validate their own shortcomings.
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Queue times seem the same as last time. Way too long for me. The annoyance of having such long queues as killer outweighs the fun factor.
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People that have been around since it all began properly in the early 80's could be anywhere between 45-75 years old. If you've been gaming for the last 40 years then I doubt anything is ever going to make you stop. It's basically engrained into your DNA.
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Knockout, infectious fright, hex third seal & hex undying.
Survivors absolutely hate this build and will make sure you know about it in end game chat. It's also horrible to go against in solo queue. Even SWF struggle with it if the don't have good map awareness over comms.
Its very oppressive and can be used with any killer often resulting in extended win streaks before losing or drawing.
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Its called alpha state. It happens when you do repetitive tasks over long periods of time. A good example is when driving a car and sometimes your brain completely switches off and 10 mins later you come to and realise you've been driving and can't really remember the last 10 minutes of driving. Apparently we do it automatically for approximately 10 minutes out of every hour in a waken state. It's basically our brain going into auto pilot to rest. We would also apparently go mad if it didn't happen, not sure why though. Oddly my brother has schizophrenia and I was explaining alpha state one day and he says he's never experienced it.
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I tried it out on all killers. Knockout, infectious fright, hex third seal & hex undying. It's very strong on pretty much every killer. You can basically win at any point of the game and it completely negates a large amounts of perks. Survivors absolutely hate it and you will get abused, even if you hook them all at the end and don't just leave them to bleed out..
I agree that it isn't fun , but the perks exist and I'm not sure what they could do. Would require a new mechanic or complete rework of perks. You could potentially add something like a timer where a survivor would show up on map after x amount of time slugged to all other survivors regardless if they have blindness or the effect from knockout. The main issue is not being able to find your team mates and finding both hex totems is difficult for survivors when you get at least 2 people slugged. It's often too late if they do manage to do the totems as the snowball potential from 2+ downed players is massive.
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My solo queue games generally go like:
DC or hook suicide at 5 gens
Hook camping blight
Mend simulator legion
DC at 4 gens
Spirit, nurse or Billy - proximity camp
Hook suicide
Tunneling killer
Proximity camping killer
Reasonable game
DC at 5 gens
DC at 2 gens
Stealth killer with indoor map offering
Repeat
1 decent game every few hours is quite normal these days in solo queue.
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Why do people still talk about MMR as if actually matters? Everyone knows that there isn't any hidden brackets that match people fairly against others in the same bracket. You literally get to a soft cap and then get matched with everyone else that isn't in the new player bracket. The new player bracket is basically a grace period on new accounts which will probably last around 30-40 wins before you're at soft cap MMR and play everyone else.
The reason DC count is so high is because solo queue has been neglected for over a year now and people are generally just fed up of having 1 decent game out of every 10 or so games. It's basically been brewing for months and it's finally gotten to the point you can expect a hook suicide or DC in about 60-70% of you games these days. A chain reaction has started within the playerbase and it's basically became an virtual epidemic within DBD.
Like at what point do BHVR actually do something about it? Do we need to see 90-100% of all solo queue games have at least 1 person DC or suicide before they think about doing something? Its basically at a point now where people will actually start leaving the game for real if they don't sort it out.
Solo queue player satisfaction has to be at an all time low in this game. I guess if you partake in SWF or main killer only you'll be okay though, unfortunately that's not where the majority of the playerbase is.
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I don't think the difference between SWF & Killer is that big to be honest. Killers still win a significant amount of games against good SWF teams. The fact that they balance around SWF & Killer is what makes solo queue so miserable. BHVR is so scared that any significant buff to solo queue would just make SWF god mode and killers would stop queuing or lobby dodge any suspect SWF.
I definitely agree that the solo queue experience is probably one of the worst I've experienced in a long time and there's no signs of it getting better anytime soon.
BHVR has obviously made a decision that SWF & Killers are the most important players occupying the game. Solo queue players at this point are just cannon fodder for killers to have their wicked way. The amount of mistakes or bad plays a killer can make and come back to win these days is ridiculous. Killers barely even need to be able to mind game anymore to land hits or downs.
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They definitely over buffed the CD between changing forms imo. It needed changed but seems too strong now.
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Maybe not removed but it could definitely be adjusted inline with map reworks. Theres a lot more filler pallet loops these days on maps that are absolutely useless to the point that a killer can literally lunge around them or just skip the pallet entirely. BL becomes a problem when you have maps filled with these types of pallet setups and you have nowhere to go.
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The concept of chaos shuffle is fine it's just the playerbase that makes it bad (no surprise there).
Most games are just proximity camping or tunneling, incentivized by 3 X blood points. Who would have that that might encourage players to not have fun.
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Definitely feels like survivors are slowly bleeding away from the game. Can probably be blamed on a prolonged period of frustration when playing solo queue. It's really not uncommon to go on endless losing streaks in solo queue with DCs, hook suicide, bad teammates, hook proximity camping, tunneling, OP killers. All of these combined can make life pretty miserable for the average solo queue player and people will naturally start to play less when it's been an issue for a long time. 2v8 with pretty horrendous for killer mains with the insane queue times.
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I tested it a while back on almost all killers. It is very strong and I barely lost any games including multiple SWF, TTV SWFs. It's mega boring but very effective (even more so than tunneling). If people are playing this and finding it works I'm not surprised it's getting more popular.
I stopped using it though I've experienced it a few times myself and it's really not nice to go against.
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@doobiedo said:
It's the opposite of what you say. It shows how killers are so powerful now that survivors need perks to compete.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3808762#Comment_3808762
Just because a perk can be a crutch perk in some cases doesn't mean it always is. If a player always runs into walls without it they're not going to play that good with it either.
Yeah obviously it's not going to be for every person that uses the perk, but it definitely is for a lot of people.
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I mean playing killer is inherently always going to be more stressful because you basically have to always be in chase or as close as possible to maintaining 100% up time in chase when you aren't travelling between gens, kicking gens etc. Naturally that makes games much more stressful due to increased levels of concentration. Playing survivor on the other hand you basically have a 25% chance of being chased the rest of the time you're basically just doing a mundane task and keeping an eye out for the killer and skill checks. Much more time to just chill with significantly less attention needed to play games.
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Window of opportunity is never ever getting nerfed I wish people would stop asking for it. It's way too important for newer players trying to get to know the game maps considering theres a huge amount of maps these days with multiple configurations.
Its definitely a crutch perk though I mean if you run some blindness builds you'll see people go from being okay at looping to absolute garbage running into walls and stuff because for some reason not only does their map knowledge go away but also there environmental awareness. I can understand the first part but don't really get the second.
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Played on and off for around 3-4 years now. I often take extended breaks probably around twice a year at least for 2 months at a time. I play until i start getting frustrated and then I'll randomly just uninstall 1 day and not touch it again for a few months. I'm probably due a break soon tbh, can feel my patience evaporating due to playing solo queue a lot.
Ita mainly the PvP aspect that draws me back. I struggle to play single player games these days and need my fix every now and again. DBD kinda gives me what I want so I always come back.
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@Paternalpark said:
These videos from tatorhead will be irrelevant soon. Look at Decimated Borgo and The Unknowns map for examples of how BHVr are balancing maps now.
SwAmp and haddonfield got reworked recently, and while their main buildings were untouched, there are massive dead zones in both maps corners essentially making the map even smaller.
Smart killers will leave players who are using main buildings/strong loops and go for the the rest of the map that is just 50/50.
Yeah some of the recent reworks and new maps are pretty awful for survivor.
Like Haddonfield you can pretty much see all sides of the map if your hooked in the middle. Killer literally has no choice but to proximity camp regardless if they want to or not.
Not really a fan of the trend of smaller maps with barely anything of value in chase.
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@Saiph said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3807019#Comment_3807019
Most of these looping spots are just glorified 50/50s. They can look cool because sometimes he happens to win them several times in a row. But even his example clips you can see he's getting hit several times. There are stronger places to loop on each of these maps, recommending that to new players is questionable at best, if not misleading.
The Dead Dawg spot in particular is ridiculous., It's way too long to work, the killer will catch you with bloodlust even if you make the window. I can't think an "experienced" player can suggest this and think it genuinely works. I've played killer for more than 1000 hours and I don't think I've seen even one survivor try to loop it in this specific pattern, it's just absurd.
Also no offense to Tatorhead but if you watch his actual gameplay on stream he is not the incredibly good looper that the titles of his videos seem to imply. Just like the majority of these god survivor Youtubers, in reality he escapes less than 50% of his games.
I mean the loops he shows do work, especially if you're running resilience, lithe & finesse. I do think the margin for error is exaggerated though and much smaller than he implies when making videos about them. They aren't infinite loops by any means and I've found if you can run them a couple of times it's usually better just to leave the loop and hold w to the next area if the killer tries to mind game than keep running it.
The dead dawg one is probably one of the easier ones he shows and you can definitely get at least 2 full loops out of it normally if you're in the correct starting position. If you're already in chase and run to the first vault you might only get one loop if you're lucky.
The loops he shows with blocked LOS in small areas are significantly harder though and essentially 50/50 as you say. Obviously he cherry picks his chases for videos and they aren't always going to work with certain killers that have anti loop at windows & pallets, but it's always good to have more map knowledge on zones that can work if you happen to be in that spot so I wouldn't really say it's bad to recommend any areas to people if they can indeed improve your map knowledge and awareness.
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I would agree that certain maps have a ridiculous amount of unsafe areas now and it's easy to get pushed into areas where it's almost impossible to survive longer than 20 seconds, but looping is definitely still possible and most maps have a specific area that should be your goal to get to and it becomes very strong. You can literally go from running the killer for 20-30 seconds to 2-3 gens if you make it to some of these loops.
I'm not the best survivor, but I decided it was about time I actually put a bit more effort in to learn as I've been a killer main for years now and the skill gap between me playing killer and survivor was pretty significant.
I've actually been watching a lot of the no perks guys videos on loops and then using all my offerings on certain maps after watching his guides and it's helped me massively. I just keep practicing doing the loops and getting to the loops from anywhere on the map and I'm now starting to get pretty good. I still make a lot of mistakes but there's definitely a significant improvement in not only those maps but others too. Even managed to make a pinhead rage quit the other day and ran my first full 3 gen chase. Escaping a lot more chases also & sometimes the killer has started to ignore me after a few chases.
So from someone who was fairly bad at survivor I've probably learnt all that in just over 3 weeks or so. I guess having a lot of killer experience plays a part also with mind gaming and stuff but it's definitely possible to get better at it
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Controlling & protecting the centre of the map/board is often the difference between winning and losing.
In chess you want to split your opponents central pieces and force them to the edges of the board where they have less control and movement options. Similar to what survivors want to do in DBD to force gens to be split on either side of the map for late game.
A player hook suicide at 5 gens is the equivalent to losing your Queen in the first 5 moves i.e it's virtually impossible to come back and win from it.
Billy sniping you from across the map is like forgetting about the one bishop that's been strategically place on the back line waiting to snipe your castle when you make a mistake & least expect it.
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@IhateFeng said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805102#Comment_3805102
That was exactly what I have experienced. Maybe the developers shadow increased luck on survivors
Yeah unless we're both extremely unlucky with RNG. But now you have spoken up about it I'm almost convinced it's been shadow buffed and or bugged and we just don't know about it. I was actually going to make a post about it myself, but I've stopped using that build and it doesn't seem to happen as much when people aren't slugged.
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@TotesRider said:
So as many people may know, there is bit of a DC problem in the game. I've seen it on streams, clips on Twitter and it's happened to me quite a lot during my killer.
While the matchmaking timer thing KINDA works, I don't think it solves the problem. So I was thinking of some potential ideas.
When Killer Instinct came out it had a little thing called Rage Quit jail. Where if you DC'd a lot you get a mark that's seen by anyone you play against and if you keep doing it, you'll be put into a the Rage Quit Jail which is just you being matched with other Rage quitters.
Now it wasn't perfect by any means so to have something like this it would take some tinkering to take into account stuff like "Player had to leave for an emergency" or "Power went out suddenly" to make sure it doesn't mark those players. Basically if you play ten games in a row and only DC'd during one of them. You're fine. But if you play those 10 games and DC during 7-8 of them. You'll be marked.
Also thought about something like when you're in a lobby a message pops up saying "Hey this player has been known to DC/Give up on first hook/etc. You and the other players may vote to kick them from the lobby" and put it to a vote between the other 4 players.
What do you y'all think.
I suggested something similar a while back and it wasn't received very well. Mines was based on a karma system. If you go into negative karma you get prioritised with other people in negative karma and need to actually complete games with said people to build your karma back up into the positive to queue normally again. Cap the points so that it allows for a few genuine cases of DC etc. most people weren't interested. Not the players fault it's the Devs and toxic play etc etc
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Been using it a lot and feel like I've had more success on pallets but still had a few times it's saved me on windows. Been hit quite a lot also though when I feel like I've got enough distance to make it through a window.
Definitely think it should work when injured but I've got a feeling it's down to it possibly stacking with resilience and becoming too OP. Could be another Deadhard situation where that one stacked fast vault could add another minute onto a chase by skilled survivors.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805564#Comment_3805564
Indeed we have different views of what toxic means. Which was my initial point that the term "toxic" has lost all meaning. Toxic players has always been known as people who chat abuse and have a negative attitude before, during or after a game, play in a way to intentionally grief, abuse and make players experience miserable.... It's exits in all games not just dbd. This term "toxic" has now evolved into meaning a player that plays in a style that the opposition doesn't like.
There is a big difference between someone using a a tactic to win than someone using a tactic to be malicious. Big difference between slugging, tunneling and camping Vs a killer body blocking a survivor to stop them from getting out of a corner. I have a clear way to define what toxic behaviour is (as it's usually seen in games) but I am curious how you would define what is toxic and what is just something that someone doesn't like.
If proxi camping is toxic behaviour then why are things like flashlight and flash bangs not? Both are equally not enjoyable by opposing sides. And what is a killer supposed to do to not be toxic? Bare in mind the list of toxic plays is long....slugging, tunneling, camping, even use of certain perks like noed or killers with certain builds like double iri Myers is considered toxic, there many more that apparently makes a killer toxic.
I mean I personally don't consider proxy camping to be enjoyable because I know it takes very little skill and it has a negative impact how others perceive me and makes the game miserable for them. I'm not saying my sole purpose is to make sure others enjoy the game, but I like to win fairly according to my own standards.
For me it's pretty simple. In general I won't hook camp or hard tunnel. Most of the builds I use are aura related so camping or tunneling doesn't even fit my playstyle anyway. If the survivors have a problem post match if I win then they don't really have anything to back it up and just start making things up in their head. I don't really care what they say because I beat them fair and square in my opinion. I also don't really run many meta killers or perks so I don't really get much abuse because they have nothing to complain about. Most games generally end with nothing in end game chat and funnily enough it's usually SWF or TTV SWFs that will say ggs gl next. Of course you still get A holes but what can you do.
Toxic gameplay for me about when someone repeatedly engages in a type gameplay at the expense of other peoples enjoyment. It's pretty clear that tunneling and camping has been a serious issue forever in this game and they are constantly trying to balance it without going too far and making SWF god mode.
The problem really lies with how they can balance the game. It would be significantly easier if you didn't have 3 groups of players to balance around.
I'm much better at killer than survivor, but I'm slowly getting better at survivor and actually play a bit more survivor at the moment. I recommend everyone do this from time to time so they get a good idea of what it feels like to be on the receiving end on both killer & survivor. It definitely gives you a reality check and makes you a bit more compassionate towards your opponents.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805474#Comment_3805474
You completely neglecting the part that I said "with no intention to do gens" these are toxic. Using flashlight and flash bangs and pallets to accomplish the goal of getting gens done is fine. That's part of the game, exactly the same as tunneling or camping.
Low MMR means nothing because there are many people that create new accounts or deliberately lose matches to lower MMR with the intention to get easier matches.
I was a survivor a long time ago and I learnt to counter the tunnelers by equipping the right perks and not goading the killer into chasing me. People can counter it and can learn if they choose to. It's not unwinnable tactic even in soloq...I know I've done it many times and many soloq have beaten me when I do tunnel and camp. It seems to me that the thing that makes something toxic is something that requires no skill and if the survivors are having fun. If these 2 criteria are hit then it's considered toxic. Which to survivors the only way a killer can play in a non toxic way is if they spread hooks, let survivors go, weaken their build (play how they want the killer to be played) there doesn't seem to be any difference between something they dont like and something toxic, because if they dont like it and it requires no skill the survivors find it boring...which is described as being toxic.
You're also neglecting the fact that I initially said I didn't think tunneling was the main problem now and proximity camping was the bigger issue.
It's pointless continuing this discussion we both have different opinions on what is and isn't toxic. I could give you multiple examples on how to counter these types of SWFs with a few perks, but it still doesn't make it any less toxic. Exactly the same argument as yours with tunnelling but on the opposite end of the spectrum.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3805048#Comment_3805048
You say good killers don't need to camp or tunnel, that suggests that new players that are not that good at the game are toxic by default if they use a method that works for them. We all have to start somewhere and there are killers out there that are not good enough to deal with swf teams, if they camp and tunnel to get a few kills good on them for finding a way to beat the competition. I was a survivor main for 2 years I know the pains of camping, tunneling, slugging and all other killer tactics but that's not toxic behaviour. Now I'm a killer main I know what true toxicity is. Swf squads armed with flashlight, flashbang, spend the whole match blinding the killer with no intention of doing gens. That's toxic.
And the fact they might have had 5 games in a row being tunneled out is irrelevant, at that point it's time to learn to counter it or have a break. People are free to vent all they want, but I stand by my way of thinking.... Mouthing off post game makes me think "bad attitude, deserved to be tunneled out"
Well I could just play devil's advocate and say that people playing in SWF with the intention using flashlights, flash bangs, sabotage, body blocking etc etc is also not toxic because it's an integral part of the game mechanics and also a valid way for a SWF to win as they usually have one designated gen jockey. It's just not the normal way to win. Their intention is to waste the killers time or force them to give up by forcing them into an unwinnable position, which is basically exactly what camping and tunneling does when someone is forced out at 4/5 gens. The player being tunnelled will normally give up followed by the team.
I personally think both killers & survivors are playing in a toxic manner when they play the game in this way.
New players certainly don't need to tunnel when they're in low MMR playing against low MMR survivors. They do it because it's easy which often forces them into the higher MMR brackets before they gain enough experience and skill to compete. They get stuck in the cycle of relying on tunneling/camping as a crutch to beat better teams which really isn't a requirement for most normal solo queue games but they do it anyway to the detriment of other players experience. That's not solely on the players though it's a problem with DBD itself and it's just too easy to do and doesn't really have enough punishing mechanics to prevent it. Even though they've added things like hook timers, endurance & increased hook times it barely does anything. I can probably count on 1 hand the amount of times I've seen a hook timer actually work and killers are proximity camping or tunneling easily 40-50% of the games in solo queue.
How can you learn not to be camped or tunneled in solo queue? You need to sacrifice too much in order to counter it if you're playing solo, which cripples you during chase and it's almost impossible to coordinate solo queue teammates unless you have 4 experienced players. How can new survivors get better at the game if they face this type of play all the time?
Both ways are toxic and detrimental to players on both sides, but it's almost an impossible task to fix it without a complete overhaul certain mechanics followed by a massive perk rework. Probably never going to happen and I think if they ever make 8v2 a regular thing it's going to completely destroy 1v4 mode for Killers. You'll be lucky to get 1-2 games per hour if that happens.
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@IhateFeng said:
I have many survivors have success their 4 chance unhook since last patch. I myself even got auto unhook once when playing a match. Is this normal?
When I was testing out a slugging build for about 7-10 days on all killers there was a huge increase in the number of people unhooking themselves without perks or offerings. No hook camping. I would often either slug for 4 downs or 3 downs before hooking and at least one person would unhook every 2 games. It actually happened so much that I would expect at least one person to be getting off the hook in almost every match. It was very consistent throughout the 7-10 days and I even managed it myself playing survivor in the same situation. I could put it down to RNG if it wasn't playing as much but that was over probably around 30 hours of game time so maybe like 90 games.
In theory the average chance of that happening if you're only hooking 4:times per match should be 1 in 25 games per survivor.
I honestly believe there is a hidden increase in luck if all survivors are hooked and its the first time they've been hooked. Maybe the chance increases per survivor or something but it's definitely a thing and I'm not entirely sure if it's bugged or intentional.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
Tunneling (like actual hard tunneling) is an infuriating practice most often implemented by insecure players who are afraid that they aren't good enough to win fairly, but it's not really that common. I have many thousands of hours in this game (most as survivor at this point), and I have never seen the epidemic tunneling some people say is going on. Hard camping is even rarer.
I think some people just have really loose definitions of what these things are.
What is common is at least one surv in most matches is going to be an asshat. I see it all the time in-game as a surv and as a killer. And it's as inevitable as the sunrise. Post game, whoever comes out on the wrong side (and for some reason sometimes the winning side) is going to have concocted some harebrained narrative where they were done wrong and how that's they why they lost.
But the good news is that you can ignore chat. In fact I highly recommend it. I haven't participated in a post game exchange in over fours years, and that decision has greatly enhanced my DBD experience.
Life's too short, let these people mald into the void.
Hard camping has has effectively been replaced by proximity camping which happens a lot. Hard tunneling isn't as prominent like hit off the hook and go straight for that person, at all costs but general tunneling of 1 player happens fairly often where they actively choose the player over another when they know they have just hooked them. I don't have an issue with tunneling if there like 2 gens left and the killer only has two hooks. It's often the only way to actually claw back a win, but unfortunately most of the tunneling happens at 4/5 gens. That's my own personal experience so it might be different to others.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3804539#Comment_3804539
There is always something for someone to complain about. The only way to avoid abusive comments in chat is to play how the survivors want you to play, that includes no tunneling, camping, slugging, no using certain perks such as noed, no using certain killers such as Myers, no getting kills. These are all part of the game and should be expected. They are not unhealthy for the game, they are unhealthy for the survivor that just doesn't like something. Killers don't like body blocking to prevent hooks but I don't ever hear the same salty comments from killers "get good, you only won by body blocking"
These survivors that mouth off post match don't do themselves any favours. For me, if I tunnel or camp and someone vents about it I'm thinking "good job I did what I did, would hate for this player to have won with that horrendous attitude"
You also mentioned killers are inclined to do it due to toxic behaviour. But tunneling and camping is not toxic behaviour. That's the difference. Killers will vent when going against toxic players (players who deliberately set out to make the game miserable for the opponent) because they are not trying to play the game, they are trying to be toxic. Killers that tunnel and camp are not deliberately trying to make the game miserable for the survivors they are just playing the game, going for kills. The point is killers vent over true toxicity, survivors vent over literally everything and put everything down to being toxic when it's not. The whole meaning of toxic players has been lost due to literally everything that results in a killer winning being considered toxic, which results in abusive chat.
Tunneling & camping is toxic. You either haven't played survivor enough to see how it negatively effects all aspects of survivor gameplay or are trying to justify it because you use it as a crutch to win games. Just because it's not against the rules doesn't make it any less toxic. Good killers don't need to tunnel or camp. When it doesn't happen games significantly more enjoyable.
You mentioned that if you tunnel or camp and someone says something to you then you're glad you did it because they apparently have a bad attitude. However that might have been the 5th game in a row that person got camped or tunneled by bad killers and they're venting their frustrations. Doesn't mean they have a bad attitude just sick of an outdated mechanic that many people rely on as a crutch to win matches. I wouldn't even say tunneling is the main thing anymore I've seen much more proximity camping happening these days often resulting in 1 on hook and 1 down because they can't get the rescue.
I for one would welcome a complete removal or significantly increased punishments in game for both types of play. Won't ever happen though the kill rates would plummet and people would actually have to learn how to play Killer properly. I'm not even a survivor main and have a lot more experience and skill in the killer role and would still welcome it.
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If you tunnel or camp you should expect to get some form of complaint in end game chat regardless of your own opinion if it's okay or not. The only way to truly avoid snidey comments in end game chat is by beating people in a way that they can't complain about I. e not camping or tunneling and getting a 3-4k. Even then you'll still get it from time to time, but it's much more uncommon.
The way some killers play is an issue for the health of the game which often results in people being angry and in turn they let out their frustrations by being abusive. It's exactly the same on the opposite end of the spectrum and killers are also inclined to do it because of survivors being toxic in game. Basically a vicious cycle that can only be changed by some serious changes to some mechanics or by the community playing the game. Until then just except the fact that if you play in a certain way you should expect to get backlash for it.
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Even though DBD is fairly simple in design it really does take a significant amount of time to actually learn how to play the game at a higher level of play on both sides. You get a grace period with low MMR and then you're thrown to the wolves playing against people with thousands of hours who know every perk and map layout. Theres no simple way to learn these things except through experience & time investment. That will probably put a lot of people off knowing they're probably going to have to play for a good few years before they have enough experience to feel comfortable playing against any Killer or SWF. I would imagine the grind would be quite off-putting to a lot of people as well and it's not cheap on a fresh account if you wanna have all DLC.
I think if you don't fall in love with DBD straight away you might not stick around for long. Baby killers get bullied by SWF & solo queue get bullied by toxic gameplay. These are things that if you're in the fence about investing into this game would probably sway your decision to not play unless of course you fall in love with the game from the get go and endure it until you get good enough to compete at higher levels.
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Seems kinda strong tbh. Gonna massively effect mind gaming on a lot of different tiles and structures. Like a lot of pallets aren't worth breaking and survivors know that so they use misdirection to juke a killer into thinking they will run towards the short route around and double back to gain a bit of distance and reach another tile or loop again. It's going to completely eliminate a huge component of survivors being able to mind game killers.
Definitely not healthy to be making such a drastic change to some of the core mechanics of survivor gameplay. Paired with lethal pursuer it's going to be hell. It's problematic already at 10 seconds.
Running it with lethal, nowhere to hide & barbecue is going to destroy solo queue. Especially on high mobility killers. People will literally have nowhere to run or hide with straight up wall hacks for pretty much every survivor mechanic in the game except vaulting windows which you could swap out barbecue for I'm all ears if you really want wall hacks for every occasion.
DC is going to increase massively in solo queue when people are getting decimated in every game in under 15 seconds at the start of the match. It's bad enough already no need to make it any worse imo.
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So the nerf to the turn addons will really just effect his ability to traverse the map and avoid obstacles. He will still be able to curve around things at a slightly lesser rate due to the initial grace period where his turn rate is super sensitive.
Doesn't really make much sense. 80% of the fun with Billy is whizzing around and avoiding stuff to score long range snipes. Now you won't have that because of the add-on nerfs and reduced availability.
I thought the problem was overdrive but seems like they want to gut his fun factor also. Not impressed.
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Probably cause whenever on the rare occasion you actually encounter a hag they're normally quite good and have a similar play style to a 3 genning skull merchant. Barely commit to chase and zone off areas stringing out games.
I don't personally hate playing against them, but it can become quite tedious. Luckily it's not that common for me. Now Legion games on the other hand I really don't like. People just don't really know what to do and just give up all the time at 4-5 gens.
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Its pointless to even argue or give advice on the forums. Some people just can't comprehend that they just aren't as good as other people when playing a certain role in this game. They just want someone to validate their claim to make themselves feel better about losing to better players.
The excuses and replies are always the same.
You must be playing baby survivors.
You obviously aren't playing at high MMR and I am.
You can't do that with X killer I just proved it by providing my experience.
Look at this random video it shows how OP things are.
Content creators just smurf or make things up (even though you can literally watch them doing it live).
Basically it just comes down to people looking for someone who agrees with them so they feel better about losing. Of course the game has OP perks and unbalanced maps and strong teams. It's a game that's been out for years that's constantly evolving. It's also a game that many people have played for years and are just good at the game because they have sank ridiculous amounts of time playing. I don't understand how some people can't fathom that you're going to have better players on both sides with significantly more experience than them and lose badly every now and again. That doesn't mean other players have the same experience as you.
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And if you're constantly losing to these teams then you definitely aren't playing at the top level of MMR. I don't even believe a top MMR bracket exists in this game due to the fact that queue times are literally the same for everyone. If it did then you would have massive variations in how long you need to wait, especially when you go over the average MMR ratings and start to drift into the higher MMR brackets with less players.
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Killers stand no chance to get even 1k playing against skilled survivors is just 😂
Do you not realise how ridiculous that statement is and how badly it reflects in your personal skill level? You can literally go and watch any of the numerous content creators that make videos for this game and watch them consistently beat skilled survivors and 4 man SWFs. You can even watch them doing it live on stream so how does a screenshot from a random game in Asia prove this theory of yours?
At this stage gauging by your other comments in similar related topics about survivors being OP it just sounds like you're angry at the game because of your own personal experience losing against SWFs & you want people to agree with you because you think the game is at fault.
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@Azulra said:
So BHVR already said that these nerfs are essentially intended to "kill her off" so people will stop complaining about her until her rework. The thing is though is that this is, legally, the dumbest decision to ever make in the financial department because, since all of her perks are garbage until the PTB nobody purchased her for the perks meaning they specifically wanted the killer. If you intentionally make a change to the killer(a DLC killer may I add) that is so bad that they're almost borderline unplayable and openly admit to it then you are, at that point, scamming people out of money while straight up admitting to it essentially and will, obviously, result in a LOT of people demanding refunds.
I purchased her for the perks cause I need to have all perks to satisfy my perk OCD, even though I don't use her perks or play her that often. But someday I might create a whacky build or see a build I want to try so I like having every perk available at T3 in all killers.
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@nam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800117#Comment_3800117
I main Nurse cause I have to, like you said you can't win SWF with Trapper, so do other killers, they all can be countered by SWF in a a certain way as long as this SWF is skillful enough, just watch matches.
If you really want to win at any cost with any killer. Throw on hex undying, hex third seal, knockout & infectious fright. That build will win you 100% of matches with any killer as long as the hex third seal totem stands. It doesn't matter if it's SWF or solo queue.
I tested this build for a week after seeing a lot of complaints about slugging and how slugging has become more effective than hooking and it's beyond ridiculous how easy it is to win. The pressure this build creates is usually way to much for any team if they don't get both totems down within the first 3 minutes and 9/10 they don't in my experience.
Over a week playing every night for around 3 hours I think I lost about 3-4 games in total. You basically just slug everyone and don't hook. You can either hook when all 4 are down or let them bleed out. It was so ridiculous that I just started downing 3 after a few days and hooking to give them a chance to play the game.
But be warned if you choose to do this you will get serious abuse in end game chat to the point of people telling you to end yourself. But if you really want to stick it to SWF teams and dont care then try it out.
For the record I don't endorse this type of play it was purely out of interest that I wanted to see how strong it really is on all killers. I pretty much played it with everyone including Trapper, which actually made him quite fun versus a 4 man stack SWF 😂
It does get quite boring after a week though so it's not something that really held my attention and the games are often exactly the same with little to no variations. Even if they do break both totems you can quite often still win if you have applied a lot of early to mid game pressure. The only times I lost were if they spawned on top of both totems or left one survivor alone to unhook because I was getting bored.
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@nam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3800086#Comment_3800086
I disagree, like I said, certain killers could be countered by SWF easily. If you play Ghost, SWF shares your position, if you play Knight, anyone could steal your flag to stop the guard, if you play Singularity, anyone could shock your spore when you chase someone. In a simple word, these killers are designed to by the toys of SWF.
Won plenty of games with Singularity & Knight versus SWFs so I would consider them to be in the 75%. Never really got into Ghost face that much so can't really comment on his viability versus a decent SWF.
If you can only win against SWF playing Nurse and struggle with other killers then it's an issue with your personal skill level. It's absolutely worthless being good with Nurse because there's no skills you can carry over to other killers because her power is one of a kind and ignores all game mechanics that apply to other killers.
As I said before slap on a load of aura perks and start working on your macro gameplay. When to start chase, when to stop chase, when to slug, what pallets to leave, when to break pallets, mind games, right ways to cut off loops and a load of other minor decisions you make during the game. These are real transferable skills that will make you better on all killers you play and of course you need to be competent and practice on each killer, which only comes with time invested.
Look at all the well known content creators in this game. Most of them aren't even comp level players, but merely just good at the game. Do you see them struggling and never winning with most of the killers v SWF? No you dont because they played this game for many hours and invested a lot of time, just like many of the people on the forums. Map knowledge is also a huge part of the game & that really only comes with playing the same s**t over & over until you can basically visualise the whole map in your head without even thinking about it.
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You can win against most SWFs with 75% of the killer roster if you put the effort in to learn them properly. The other 25% will be very difficult, but not impossible against most average SWF groups (which is what 80% of SWF teams are just average).
Different builds that don't follow the normal gen regression meta work well. Mix up your play style and don't just rely on gaining an advantage through gen regression perks. Use aura & status builds to apply pressure through constant chase & downs. Use things like body blocking, flashlights, sabotage to your advantage by leaving one slugged and take a second person down. Theres many ways to apply gen pressure that's indirect to actually using regression perks. It also helps you massively to improve your macro decision making and gameplay without the reliance of regression to carry you to higher MMR ratings.
Obviously I don't personally know my MMR or even if I'm playing at high levels, but I play a significant amount of SWFs, TTVs & 2-3 man stack TTVs all the time. I only really struggle when I return from a 2-3 months break, but after a few weeks when the muscle memory is dialled back in I can win versus most of the SWF I play using multiple killers with various builds.
Biggest thing imo is the macro plays. Stack aura perks and get good at that and it carries over to all killers. Obviously it's much easier on some killers to apply pressure, but it's not impossible to do it on most killers with a bit of practice.
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Are you running a VPN? I had issues after yesterdays update and couldn't load into any games and was getting that message. When I turned it off everything started working again. Seems to be back to normal today though.
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Its definitely not the only viable way to win. Plenty of gen/hook orientated builds or aura builds that are very strong.
Slugging is however an extremely effective way to win on almost any killer. Using a build like undying, third seal, infectious fright & knock out to slug for the 4 down before hooking renders a significant amount of perks completely useless for survivors. It's kind of a race though to see if they can cleanse the totems before all getting downed. It's not a style of play that's recommended though unless you don't mind receiving a ton of abuse in end game chat. If you don't care then it's a very viable strat.
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I think he's the worst designed killer in the game . I have more fun playing F Tier killers than Dracula.
I don't understand how anyone can main him or defend how bad his gameplay is. Each to their own I suppose.
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Killers play toxic because survivors are toxic.
Survivors play toxic because killers are toxic.
What came first the chicken or the egg?
All I know is it's an endless loop that will continue indefinitely whilst DBD is alive. You either ignore it and take the abuse on the chin or you join the rest of the toxic crew and see the game for what it really is.
Theres only one way to not receive abuse in the end game chat as killer and you need to tick many boxes. Not sign of tunneling, camping or slugging. Don't use meta perks or killers. Outplay every survivor at every loop. End the game on a 4k.
Do all of this and you still aren't guaranteed to not get abused in some way. Most of the time you get no response at all, which is better than getting trolled by some salty losers. If you fail at any of these objectives prepare to get tbagged, clicked & told how bad you're in end game chat.
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It's not something I personally do often unless it's been a hard fought match and I want that 4k, but I can see why other people do it. The amount of times I've seen salty SWF give tons of abuse in end game chat because that last person happened to get the hatch, even though they lost badly on a 3k. Slugging for the 4k removes any comeback about being outplayed on the final chase from toxic teams that like to throw out abuse afterwards.
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Best thing you can do to learn is slap on aura related perks and just get in plenty of chases to get better at it. Relying heavily on gen regression when you're learning can mask your potential weaknesses in other aspects of the game such as mind gaming, moonwalking, chase & loops.
I wouldn't even worry about winning or losing when you're just learning it will come in time as you get better at apply pressure through fast downs & hooks. Once you get better you can start adding in gen related perks to push your game ahead if that's the style of play you like. Personally I prefer to run 3 aura and 1 other perk type to apply pressure through constant information and fast hooks.
A good aura perk combo is Lethal pursuer, nowhere to hide, barbecue & chilli and I'll normally add in 1 other gen kick perk such as unforseen as it compliments nowhere to hide very nicely. You get plenty of action with this build and know exactly where to go after hooks most of the time. When you get there you have auras after kicking gen and will usually get undetectable making your life significantly easier on hard loops. You can pretty much use this build on most killers so you aren't limited by specific killers that are tied to certain builds. It's also a build that encourages moving around the map a lot so you won't be camping or tunneling.
As far as killers go you can play almost anyone with that build, but it works really nicely on killers that have high mobility or range attacks imo. Billy is an excellent choice, but quite hard to get the hang of at the start.
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1 in 100 games you get a 4 man SWF? What game are you playing lol