Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@VaporLion said:
no. youll need it at base otherwise hex is still garbo
hex perks should all be reworked under hex:plaything system. every time you hook 1 survivor, that survivor creates a totem and an effect is applied to the totem. i think the premise of high risk vs high reward perk does not work because you can make rewarded infinity, but if the totem is always dead, then the perk has no impact on the match.
I would almost consider killer hex perks as empty perk slots. I think hex perk should only punish survivor if the survivor actively ignores their secondary objective and they should more like pseudo generator defences perks.
They could make the perks have a final form to them. for example if 4 plaything are active at same time, the killer becomes undetectable and the totems become impossible to cleanse like hex:penti. Devour hope could unlock mori if all 4 totems are active(base-kit is effect is exposed). Ruin could activate pain res on every hook on all generator on the map. Lullaby final form is silent skill-checks. crowd control could block all windows on the map. blood favor could permanent block all pallets on the map.
the current system for hex perks where 1 totem is the hex just does not work because totem gets cleansed before it does anything practically useful. if all hex perks created 4 hex totems, then removing perk would be more time consuming for the survivor and the perk would have a greater effect on the match.
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@Blueberry said:
Bloodlust is fine. If the killer is chasing long enough to get Bloodlust he's losing the game anyway. You can't afford to commit to chases that are that long. Bloodlust is also a testament to how bad map design still is.
bloodlust being fine is like saying god pallet are fine. its win more mechanic. if your already close to winning as killer, then this mechanic makes it physically impossible for survivor to win. If there are like 3-5 generators by the time 1 person dies, then you can almost auto-pilot follow every survivor to the end and the survivor is likely to lose by default. If your losing then mechanic does not help the killer in 99% of cases to win. The killer will lose regardless as long as survivor makes no crucial errors. I remember watching an ohtofu video like 4 years ago and the video was about how bloodlust makes it impossible to balance loops and justifies strong loops being in the game because it counter-balances the mechanic. I still think ohtofu's opinion is likely correct. map would be way more balanced if bloodlust was removed from the game and pallet looping was weaker.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3353064#Comment_3353064
I mean it’s better than the garbage that Leverage is now. I rather slow down a gen for a bit even if it only adds 9 seconds onto it, then have a perk that needs 5 tokens to be effective.
it would be good perk with sloppy if duration was 45-60 sec. it might still be ok but 30 second is so low. big ouch.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351398#Comment_3351398
...What?
Stealth isn't dead, one of the strongest builds in the game is a stealth build and there are a ton of serviceable stealth perks in the roster. That's a weird take, and it's one that doesn't even connect to the post you're responding to.
The point of bringing up stealth is that "playing hurt" is a net negative for you here. You're louder, easier to track, and only have what would be an inconsistent potential second health state to make up for it- which wouldn't even be a net positive if it were 100% reliable and uncounterable, that'd just be worse off than having two regular health states. Nobody would run that perk, and so it's not meaningfully different to just burying it for the sake of never wanting to see it again. Even with the built-in Iron Will and blood stifling effects of No Mither added on to your idea, I struggle to think of any reason someone would want to run this version of Dead Hard outside of doing Adept David challenges- it's just a net negative for them.
stealth kinda is dead. nowhere to hide and BBQ are perks that weaken stealth. your forced to run distortion in current dbd if you want to stealth from the killer. Otz description of yoyo is what I describe as pre-hold shift-w from generators. Its more rewarding to pre-hold shift w at generator then risk being undetected. A lot of the game's direction regarding stealth has been centralized around SWF-level play because time efficiency and loop strength in the game.
They gave strong information perks because knowing where survivor is weak advantage in the game because of the loop balance in the game and generator efficiency. Their solution to making killer camp less is giving killer more information perks so they can transition from chase to chase more easily but the by product of this is that it kills stealth for survivor. This encourages survivor to hold-w pre-chase near generators instead of hiding around since hiding around is risk while hold-w is not a risk.
the argument is though that survivor do not need stealth to win because swf can communicate where the killer is at near 100% up-time and pallet loops are so time consuming that a killer wasting time searching around is game-losing for the killer. that enforces the killer to camp hooks because they cannot find anyone to chase, so their best point of reference is going back to the hook since unhooking is their only base-kit information tool to finding survivors.
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@Pulsar said:
She has Myers-Syndrome.
She has one or two really good add-ons that give her a very strong playstyle that is extremely difficult to deal with. However, her base-kit is very lacking.
Seriously, a 100 second TP cooldown is pretty awful. Give her unlimited teleports to TV's but put a cooldown on that TV being able to apply Condemned.
give the little girl a break. she is trying give the eye to people.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352312#Comment_3352312
-"Billy's position in the game should not be related to another killer's position in the game. Billy is pretty bad. i'd give Billy higher priority over LF."
This is a logic fault. First let me say I feel that all the killers should be within 15% power level of each other from the best to worst. The only exception is if some killers are "allowed to be bad" and would have MMR caps. Imagine for example if Trapper could never actually go past 1450 MMR keeping you out of the high tier bracket. Would that be fair? It might but why not make him competitive so that he's a B+ killer base kit insted of a D killer requiring an iri addon (bloody coil) to be viable. Trapper with the Bloody coil base kit would be "tolerable". Let him have 4 traps in hand base and that would be a good start to make him decent. Change the purple sack back to +2 traps in hand (meaning you also start with +2 extra traps).
-"leatherface at high-level is based around catch-up with chainsaw in the chase. LF at 110% would be worse at catch-up and worse at pallet break zoning"
I am fully aware. I am suggesting to retune him so that he's 110% but the saw is better - yet more necessary to really start a chase.
This would make LF a unique chainsaw experience very different from Billy. LF would be more of a pouncing charger and in some ways would be like Wesker (although since he came first Wesker is really more like LF around loops).
Much like Wesker mains do LF would also be doing more "chainsaw for distance". Two could be changed to do things like have a longer paced slower saw charge OR be a more intense shorter charge.
The biggest problem with the game is that it always feels like killer is an afterthought. LF is super low on the priority list and might never get fixed if they are going to lose him with the TCM game coming out soon.
I think that your idea closer to my idea for wesker. I think wesker would be better if his dash was more usable at pallet loops and there was more precedence on being good at landing his virulent bound and less strength in the infection mechanic/m1 play. 110% m/s could work for Wesker if pallet sliding did not kick you out of his ability and he had a bit more movement speed between his 1st/2nd bound. I also think it would be pretty cool if he had an add-on that added +1 max virulent bound charges. your idea works more for him because Wesker has better direct mobility and better direct potencial to down people at pallets with correct adjustments.
Billy and Wesker for me are pretty similar in terms of curving strategy at loops.
LF is similar in some regards yet a bit different in other regards. LF relies more on precedence of survivor greeding loops to deplete his chainsaw tokens but not over greeding that his chainsaw 1 shot downs when rotating pallets. if you can make leatherface spend all 3 tokens when rotating a loop. he has really long cooldown when it comes to recharge his dash tokens such that you can get to the next pallet before he can charge his chainsaw and down you between the pallet. His cooldown is careful thought where if survivor stays healthy, the leatherface wants to keep greeding his chainsaw to get instant down but if the survivor stays injured and you break the pallet in the correct manner. His pallet break is fast enough that he can hit you as m1 killer before you get to the next tile. If he was 110% m/s you could potentially play entire game injured vs leatherface because he would not be able to punish you with his pallet break due to 110% m/s catch-up. The other aspect of 110% m/s is that you could potential hold-w outside of his chainsaw max distance meaning there would not be good moment to use his chainsaw because your constantly out of range to do so.
LF chainsaw is more of side ability. he's kinda m1 based but his m1 based gameplay is like... chainsaw based? I am not entirely sure how to describe it. His chainsaw replaces his m1 play but his m1 play modified with chainsaw in mind. in that sense he is simiar to old billy yet different.
The biggest problem with the game is that it always feels like killer is an afterthought. LF is super low on the priority list and might never get fixed if they are going to lose him with the TCM game coming out soon.
I am not sure what to say about this. I would say survivor's fun is emphasized more. There is more care into survivor being fun to play then killer being fun to play. Often when killer is fun to play, the survivor is whiny because they find killer unfun to play against. LF is ok but he is add-on dependant.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351993#Comment_3351993
-"110% leatherface? your crazy."
I am guessing you never saw the movie where he hits himself in the leg with his chainsaw?
Horvath always said if he had been on the team Billy would have been 110% movement. LF would make a lot more sense if he were 110% speed but to compesnate you get a lot more speed when you used your saw. Most of the speed addons would go but you would get some of the speed as base kit.
Look at Billy and how bad his saw is right now compared to say 2016 (not talking about before flick nerf - ignore that). LF isn't even on the radar when you consider how pathetic Billy is right now.
There are a number of really stupid things about LF that make no sense. For one LF has no collision with hook poles. That would be a really smart way to adjust this killer so that he can't do the most obviously troll thing that everyone knows bad LF players do.
LF overall is one of the most boring and simple killers : walk behind someone and chainsaw. Changing him so that he needs the saw to "catch up" would make him a lot more interesting. In one sense he would be more like spirit with a chainsaw in that he uses his saw for movement and chase (obviously without the stealth part).
Look at Billy and how bad his saw is right now compared to say 2016 (not talking about before flick nerf - ignore that). LF isn't even on the radar when you consider how pathetic Billy is right now.
Billy's position in the game should not be related to another killer's position in the game. Billy is pretty bad. i'd give Billy higher priority over LF.
LF overall is one of the most boring and simple killers : walk behind someone and chainsaw. Changing him so that he needs the saw to "catch up" would make him a lot more interesting.
You certainly do not play much leatherface. leatherface at high-level is based around catch-up with chainsaw in the chase. LF at 110% would be worse at catch-up and worse at pallet break zoning. Leatherface just has bad base-kit(for high level), but both his chili and beast marks enable him to counter hold-w strategies if your good at him which most LF are not good at him. he takes too much game-sense for most players.
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the english patchs notes only said eruption. German patch note was likely an error in translation. probably nothing as eruption change has been showcased in the ptb.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351993#Comment_3351993
They should just bring back old acceleration (before Twins DLC). Bubba should reach max. speed after 0.6 seconds everytime. Now, he needs 60% of his first charge and it's destroying his addons.
- Award Winning Chili - he needs 1.5 seconds (instead of 1.2 seconds) to reach max. speed.
- Chili - he needs 1.35 seconds (instead of 1.2 seconds) to reach max. speed
- Carburetor Tunning Guide - he needs 4.5 seconds (instead of 1.5 seconds) to reach max. speed (addon is completely destroyed)
i think it always worked like that. they fixed a bug at one point for carburettor tuning guide to make it scale off acceleration and that change made that add-on worthless. his add-on are really bad apart from 3 add-on(both chili and beast mark if used with purple chili). iri flesh and primor blub is ok but cooldowns for abilities are not fun for killer.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351381#Comment_3351381
How much stronger in chase should you be?
Honestly I think they probably should adress the acceleration issue but make LF go down to 110% speed so that he uses his chainsaw aggressively.
I think he's asking for acceleration to not scale as hard. Like instead of going from 86% m/s to 132.25% over 2 seconds(?) which is like entire first charge, he is likely asking something like 110% m/s to 132.25% m/s.
what that does is make his chainsaw less add-on dependent because he is moving faster at the start so he is covering more distance. I am not entirely sure, but i think what acceleration add-on used to do is shorten how fast it takes for leatherface to go from 86 m/s to his max movement speed. so for example, if it takes 2 second to from 86 to 132.25%, a 20% acceleration would reduce it to 1.6 seconds. that is why those add-on felt like they were doing nothing because... well by the time you accelerated, your chainsaw would end.
again i am not expert or anything, but that is what I understand from playing him. 110% leatherface? your crazy.
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Dead hard is anti-tunnel perk though. all exhaustion are meant to bail you out of situations. DH is just best exhaustion perk therefore best anti-tunnel perk in the game. this has been case for 6 years since its introduction to the game.
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@Phasmamain said:
Not surprising really. It’s funny how all spirit mains basically dropped her after the nerf and are only willing to play her again when the coin toss is brought back
current spirit is more fun to play then upcoming skull merchant killer. The oni stealth buff made me undefeated playing Oni. Now its back to losing games to not enough demon furies per game and boring gen-rushing.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350971#Comment_3350971
Sort of.
But where does someone draw the line at which add ons should be considered?
If we were considering all add ons, spirit would be better than nurse as she has MDR and amulet. Same with blight and C33.
Billy would be A tier as we'd be able to consider both Doom and lopro which combined pretty much quadruple his base kit strength.
i think you can make a tier list with best add-on on each killer in mind. your entitled to have your own opinion on what you class as strong. I think the problem with a lot of tier lists in dbd follow popular opinion over their own personal opinion. its likely because of appeal to authority and fear of being lift out. If you think MDR spirit is #1 best killer in the game, then it is fine opinion to have. others may not agree with it though. part of having opinion is dialogue to disagree with others. if you always agree with everyone else, then you fall under sheep mentality.
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if they're looking change meta for killer, I do think they will weaken those perks purely because they are always the best option for killer. Their twitter post said that one perk should never be the best option. that statement to me sounds like foreshadowing of pain res and jolt changes.
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@Wahara said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351129#Comment_3351129
To some. Mostly delusional hag mains. I remember being in the hag discord awhile back and they all act like only four people in the world know how play her properly. I don't know, sometimes I feel like people can be reallly pretentious about this killer in particular, overstate her strengths and are dismissive of her glaring pit falls. Like Otz videos, I love the man but I feel like he's greatly contributed to people thinking she's this 9000 IQ big brained hard to play killer when in reality she just sucks.
The only thing the teleport has going for hag is the phantasm which will sometimes force hits because of the camera swing if spaced properly but even that's countered by walking backwards. If the phantasm actually locked you in place even for just one full second they'd be something to actually have a healthy respect for, or at the very least make sure she was outside of teleport range before attempting.
I think they should make hag 115% m/s. Hag's overrated but she is not a bad character.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3350328#Comment_3350328
Movement speed addons on Leatherface are very underrated. If you know when you should rev while using speed addons you can achieve insane value. Without Chili we need more skill in our charges management (pressing tokens perfectly). Beast's Marks increases movement speed from 132.25% to 136.21%. It's massive against Survivors on high level. Duration isn't that important like movement speed in my opinion. But, of course duration is strong and that's why speed & duration together is the best combo addons on Leatherface. For example instead of playing Yellow Chili & Primer Bulb I prefer to play Beast's Marks & Primer Bulb. It's much better. Movement speed is increased & Bubba is getting movement speed faster (no chili).
both speed add-on decrease your chainsaw charge time by 12%. you lose distance for using them at the start but with duration add-on, the extra movement speed loss is made up by 2.5-3rd charge if used with purple chili. Using only speed, you do not have enough duration at base-kit for speed to add a noticeable increase in total distance because the chainsaw ends too quickly(even with perfect timing) to get a noticeable benefit.
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@ays12151 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349820#Comment_3349820
As a Bubba Main I can say that Award Winning Chili & Chili addons are good just with speed addons. Chili addons without speed are garbage at high level. I like speed addons. Maybe small number, but in good hands these addons can be very helpful.
opposite opinion. I think chili add-on are mandatory while speed is optional. I could play leatherface with just yellow chili and no other add-on but it makes your chainsaw a lot shorter meaning that you have to rev closer to the survivor.
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349860#Comment_3349860
Thanks for saying it... I've been having thoughts on this
But again this is General Discussions so I don't want to turn this into something it's not but... I digress
But again IMO there's too much information that Survivors can use... Nurses screams and when she had a fully charged Blink, Pig's roar, Hillbilly's grunt, Huntress's ping on a fully charged Hatchet... ETC some of those should be either addon based or taken put completely
you make me sound like a mind reader! I know what on your mind. Winning mindgames on forums. Amusing.
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@RaSavage42 said:
Not to sound pessimistic but all of them aren't right
How many Killers can bring any addon and feel a difference?
How many Killers don't need addons?
How many Killers would benefit from a couple addon changes
that is exactly what i was thinking. I was reading blueberry post and sitting here for long deep think. What killers feel total perfection? I could think blight as only near perfect killer. Maybe nurse but I think she is being punished too much for successful blinks hits now.
I would say 99% of the killers could use adjustments but their adjustment would vary big to minor.
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@ays12151 said:
Hello!
Why Leatherface has very strange code in his Chainsaw Sweep movement speed?
Now Leatherface reaches Chainsaw Sweep maximum movement speed after 60% duration of his first charge.
This code exists since December 2020 | Twins DLC. They changed way how Leatherface reaches his Chainsaw Sweep maximum movement speed. They nerfed Leatherface very significantly and we didn't get a information about it.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/LPA6G7EG92LX/image.png
What is a problem with his acceleration someone can ask.
With default Bubba first charge duration is 2 seconds. It means that he reaches Chainsaw Sweep maximum movement speed after 1.2 seconds.
Acceleration nerfs all duration addons on Leatherface.
1) Award Winning Chili - because of this code he needs 1.5 seconds to reach maximum speed.
2) Chili - because of this code he needs 1.35 seconds to reach maximum speed.
3) Because of that we got a very huge problem with his Ultra Rare addon - Carburetor Tunning Guide.
He needs 60% of his first charge to reach maximum movement speed, right? With Carburetor Tunning Guide Cannibal has 1 big charge. It means he needs 4.5 seconds to reach maximum movement speed
(7.5 seconds * 60%) = 4.5 seconds
It means Carburetor Tunning Guide doesn't work like intendent and this addon needs to be fixed or reworked.
Question is - how Leatherface's acceleration should work? How acceleration was working before Twins DLC?
I have screen from Wiki, how Leatherface should work and it would be very healthy for his addons.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/CTWGGKZR6B2N/image.png
He was reaching maximum speed after 0.6 second always. No first charge duration or something.
It was really good, because Carburetor Tunning Guide wasn't bugged & Chili addons together were a good combination for Cannibal. Now with double Chili addons Bubba needs 1.65 seconds to reach maximum movement speed - it's garbage. He is so slow at the start.
Can we get old acceleration back on Cannibal? It would fix Carburetor Tunning Guide & make him much fun to play. If someone say that he is too strong and he deserved to this nerf - I completely dissagre with this.
It's very easy to counter his power. A lot of invisible Hitboxes on certain maps, lockers & windows & more & more.
What you think guys?
yeah its pretty weird how acceleration works. his total distance traveled without a single chili is too short, but stacking chili is punishing, so he is pigeon held to run award chili+beast marks. If you run out of purple chili, you run yellow chili but yellow speed offers no positive in term of total distance gained and only gives negative to his chainsaw charge speed, so this pigeon him into running primor blub.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349315#Comment_3349315
You're absolutely correct. Knight should simply not have a power versus injured survivors. For hand wavey "AI" reasons. Brilliant suggestion.
knight can counter the dh into guard by double hitting the survivor if he is in range.
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you can run corrupt intervention as a perk on every killer. You do not need corrupt timer or whatever this is. They're better off improving the killer power themselves if required.
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@TigerSnake said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3347462#Comment_3347462
Old DH’s dash also didn’t last for 3 seconds. Idk why you’d argue once per trial means anything either, if you can’t see the immense value you gain from a 99’d SB at will, then I can’t help you.
the difference is that in order to use bloodrush, you need to use a med-kit with red needle add-on because killers can tunnel you on final hook as blood-rush requires you to be healthy. The perk is being balanced around the notion of being able to instant heal over-time in the chase to act as anti-tunnel perk.
The Sprint burst/Off the record/Bloodrush with med-kit iri add-on is obvious synergy but it is very forced.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah he still needs a lot of improvements, starting with his addons that are basically trash aside from a couple required ones.
They can literally loop around a rock to hit the flag rofl.
I find it funny that your describing exactly what I do vs knight guards. I just loop rocks for 3 spins and grab flag. then hop on generators if the knight tries to pressure me with guards.
I share same opinion that knight should be rewarded more for tracking the survivor and accurate guard placement and less rewarded for zoning. in general, I think zoning is unhealthy and heavily disliked in the game because it has little gameplay interaction between the survivor and the killer. All killer are going to have a few moments of zoning in their gameplay but it should not be the bulk of their gameplay. I think zoning is healthy if it has a mindgame to it similar to old deathslinger gun/ranged killers but not healthy if its forced zoning into guaranteed hits.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345245#Comment_3345245
The problem is that there's more than enough buildings that aren't guaranteed to spawn a hook close enough, so all they need to do is not go down right at the edge (which is easy, just get caught sooner) and that liiiiittle extra progress guarantees they can't be hooked.
Like, the Borgo one can have basement, and you need to go down two narrow staircases with boil over in the time limit. Or go to some hook miles off which you won't have time for.
And then outside those buildings, it's just a nuisance perk.
boil over is intended to encourage the killer to get slugged(inability to hook the survivor) but the issue is that killing a survivor through slugging is inefficient from time stand point. there is no risk to it. you get a crazy amount of second chances for forcing the killer to slug.
In old wiggle system, they used to make you hit skill-checks for -1 second wiggle time. Now its 20% struggling. It seems that they wanted boil over to be a perk that decreases wiggle timer by -5 seconds since every 20% = -1 second. they're hiding the perk's true intention by making the perk effect less obvious so killer get less upset. I do not think killer have a problem with slugging but with how current system is, perks like this cannot be strong if the slugging system is survivor sided.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345120#Comment_3345120
Uh huh. So you want to remove his ability to chase in conjunction with his guards. The guards cannot reliably hit on their own. So he's got no anti loop. So what's he got left? Aggressively holding a 3 gen from the start of the game. And that's it. You want to make his least interactive play style his only viable one.
You're just saying how a killer power works. Yes, they do things. Yes they're better on some maps than others. A doctor is inevitably going to get a hit on you on many loops with his shocks. Does he need a nerf? Are you aware that clown can slow you on the open and you'll inevitably get hit? Are you aware that legion has uncountable detection on you after a frenzy slash? Different killers are good at different things.
I am not removing the ability to 2vs1. you can still 2vs1. It is just weaker and allows the survivor to outplay you in a 2vs1. Right now, you can zone survivors away from any loop and a successful pincer that is unavoidable(in corners of the map) lacks gameplay for the survivor. At the same time, The knight individual units are weak vs shift-w such that drawing long patrol lines and staying in the center of the map push his ability into irrelevance.
I am just saying that his power would be more healthy if the pincer unavoidable hits were less unavoidable and his guards were stronger in the chase to get individual hits for correctly tracking the survivor with green orb past 10 meters.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3345083#Comment_3345083
Why exactly do you think knight needs a nerf?
play a map like Gideon packing plant with him. As soon as the survivor get to the edge of the map, all you have to do is drop guard and pincer the survivor. there is no counter-play for the survivor to outplay the killer ability. you physically cannot prevent him from getting a hit.
Conversely, if the knight tries to draw long patrols away from the survivor, the survivor can shift-w the guard and the killer will never get a hit with his ability. Useless ability vs shift-w.
he is too strong at erasing loops when you cannot avoid the pincer and completely ineffective in the middle of map when playing against the usual m1 killer game. Playing vs him reminds me of playing killers that utilize brutal strength perk effectively.
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@AverageKateMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344570#Comment_3344570
I think we are finally entering an era of dbd where the bulk of people's skill is locked behind strong perks and items/addons.
Killer has always been dependent on their add-on to increase their power-level and challenge level. Perk synergy with killer power can also elevated the killer strength but the majority of killer perks are generally low impact. Nurse is less challenging to play against as a result of weaker perk synergy and weaker add-on's.
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@FilthyLegionRevival said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344870#Comment_3344870
Then add something to it, I said add feedback, not you saying the same thing.Let me rephrase. While I do agree that it isn't the best solution, it is the very reason as to why I added at the end that feedback would be nice. Either give some feedback or please, take your words somewhere else because they're gonna fall on deaf ears if you're not going to give an idea as to how that could be improved.
that is too extreme of a change. you can make the pincer attacks weaker by lowest killer m/s during guard chase but not completely remove it. It makes pincer viable in some situations and less effective in others. in stronger loops, knight will need to draw patrol lines on top of the survivor to counter the loop and in weaker loops, he can use the pincer technique if applicable.
currently, he is all pincer and no split pressure or anti-shift w. He is overly effective at rendering pallets and windows ineffective and very ineffective vs running forward, changing tiles, shift-w.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344602#Comment_3344602
Nightfall isn't a debuff, it makes Dredge Undetectable. Also changes the view distance, but it's not an effect applied to anyone. Since it also applies to Dredge, I don't think it's a debuff per se. xD
So, there's the add on that gives mangled, haemorrhage, and blindness. Then either exposed or exhausted. That's four off the power.
But can you get six more off perks once you have mangled and haemorrhage at the same time? Sloppy or Blood Echo give two effects but you already have at least one of them. Ditto for Fearmonger. Plaything does Cursed and Oblivious. Hindered isn't accessible by perk. So... That's six. Can get the other of broken/exposed via perk. Seven. Not sure if Deep Wound is directly accessible, but Terminus gives Broken. I think Dredge tops out at 9 if you then add Eruption?
oblivious, exposed, broken, incapacitation comes from perks. 4 come from add-on. cursed is useless status effect but it is debuff which is 10. nightfall would be 11 if it counted as debuff. when eruption is weakened, he will lose 1 debuff.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344591#Comment_3344591
Hmmm, but you can't do that simultaneously. Badge only triggers on cleansing, which removes contaminated and hindered will have worn off by then.
So, I think it's Wesker (also 10): Infected, Blinded, Hindered, Exposed, Haemorrhage, Mangled, Oblivious, Cursed, Incapacitated, and Broken. 11 if you hit a Survivor with Endurance and trigger Deep Wound.
Which requires the somewhat bizarre scenario of someone hitting max infection while already injured from an M1 after the last gen has completed and right after an eruption proc, but it's theoretically possible. A little less fiddly if Eruption is swapped for Fearmonger (Exhausted applied to the Survivor rather than waiting for them to use it) and will still hold after the next patch. And leaves an addon free.
dredge can hit 10 or 11 if you count his nightfall as a debuff.
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@Witchubtet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344084#Comment_3344084
Sadly Dissolution suffers by telling the survivor they are effected by it, but I do agree those are good perks. I use Hubris a lot in my M1 builds.
When I say chase I’m more implying movement perks. (Outside of powers because I don’t want to see a meth fueled Blight) Like breaking things gives you haste for Six to Ten seconds. Or chasing a survivor fills up a perk to give you a longer lunge.
sounds like yellow bottle clown. you can throw yellow bottle then break a pallet to gain 10% haste for 5 seconds. applies for window vaulting as well.
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@FengShuiExe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344077#Comment_3344077
I mean the snares only work if they are already in the dream, and you have to injure them or wait a minute until they work. They are also completely useless if the survivor recently used a clock to wake up.
dream world used to apply a 50% action speed debuff towards healing and repairs. this was removed in freddy rework and put into his add-on's. The add-on were removed from the game. Jump rope used to apply a 5% repair penalty when in dream and swinging chains used to apply a 3% healing and repair penalty for each survivor in the dream world. Now those add-on are changed to 50% footstep sounds and 50% injury increase. I guess his dream world if you use add-on makes survivors louder. pretty underwhelming dream world.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364466/spirit-needs-to-be-killswitched
This sounds like the same sound occlusion mechanic that deletes survivor footsteps, survivor noises, and boon noises, when there's no line of sight.
Killers have been dealing with this garbage sound occlusion for an extremely long time. Why should survivors get a free pass out of it? Sound occlusion should either be fixed for both sides, or it should cause both sides to suffer.
In their new year anniversary update, one of the dev stated that they do not want survivors to be perfectly tracked by the killer. This is why every killer has really loud music in chase to mask the survivor's movement along with audio occlusion.
Perhaps they're going back on spirit changes. that is really nice. I miss going against spirit. her weakened version is not too interesting to place against from survivor point of view. depending how much survivor complains about will decide if that change stays in the game or not.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/364496/opinion-on-boon-perks
CoH loses part of its benefit if it's too out of the way though. What use is shaving 4 seconds off healing time if you have to spend 6 seconds getting into its range? At that point, healing on the spot would be faster.
I don't think CoH is as big of a deal as people are making it out to be, and it's frustrating that the most common take on it is to just nuke all boons from the game forever when only one boon actually sees regular use.
can you really blame killer for wanting survivor perks to get nuked? that is what survivor do to most killer perks... see latest one being eruption. with current tradjectory, if survivor kept getting their way on every perk, the killer will have no perks that help them win. it is same with survivor perks following the killer perk treatment.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344017#Comment_3344017
Yes, if the radius was bigger.
But killers have an hate for boons thanks to COH, so i doubt bhvr will buff boons anytime soon.
Boons are not balanced, COH is the only good one because its a self heal for the whole team with just one perk.
Also, COH is the only boon that benefits for being faraway from a killer while whole the other boons require you to be in the zone of a killer, thats why the range is not an issue for COH, COH could have a range of 2m and would still be as good as it is.
While all the other boons are just a waste of time, their range is short, require you to take the killer to the boon, so making them easier to remove, which just makes you waste more time.
Boons, if not COH are a waste of time.
I agree with that 2 meter sentiment and all your other points in regards to killers hating COH and their current setup being a waste of time.
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@BlueHorkew said:
People wouldn't use it with 6% and being restricted to an area.
Resilience is right there.
Boons, if not COH are just a waste of time.
if they increase radius from 24 to 48 meters. I do not think they will be waste of time. that would cover 1/3 of the map that 2% haste does make difference. haste is good. limit radius is not.
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343735#Comment_3343735
I also think different boons should have different radii.
yeah... except generally bvhr does not like a certain class of perks to be all equally viable. they usually limit 1 perk in its class. so if dark theory becomes viable, then all other boon perks are likely to get killed which is good or bad depending on your favourite perk effects.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3343875#Comment_3343875
Imo it's also obnoxious when carrying a survivor. If survivors don't realize the killer has STBFL and try to block a hook/sabotage only to get downed by STBFL that's often very hard to come back from and I don't feel like this should be the perk's strength, nor should its strength be in camping. It should be a good chase perk, but that's all.
Fwiw, if the cooldown reduction was lowered to 4% per token (instead of 5%) the cooldowns would still be shorter than they were prior to 6.1.0 all the way up to 7 tokens (and only slightly worse at 8).
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GMIUFJ0CSCDA/image-2023-02-12-214808356.png
what's the point of slightly improving m1 killer's catch-up while weakening the perk at the same time? Its like weakening brutal strength to 10% from 20% accommodate the changes. Both of those changes are too minor. M1 killer are still pretty weak at the chase. Now personally in my opinion, brutal strength as anti-loop is wrong approach to shortening an m1 killer's chase. Killer need to able to down survivors when a survivor pre-drops a pallet. They should be looking into base-kit coup the grace type changes. STBFL is good change that weakening the effectiveness of health-state(Lots of killer still complain about med-kits & COH, bodyblocking with BT, DH) but I find that health-state less obnoxious for killer if there is less distance given to the survivor. I think their 0.3 reducation to cooldown and 0.2 less distance is good change in right direction but I think it is too low numerically for killer.
The comparison is 5 second of borrow time. BT at 5 second was not very effective. current change is same problem. 0.2 less speed boost and 0.3 less cooldown is too small. they need improve that to 0.5 less speed and 0.5 less cooldown. Only then can I see STBFL going to 4%. Even then, M1 killer will still be forced run STBFL alongside changes to notice an impact which creates a problem where killer player is now married to a perk to be a threat which is not ideal. The fact the perk also has negatives makes perk less consistent which honestly kinda sucks for killer player.
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@DudelPuma said:
when a gene reaches 70% the gene will be blocked for 15sec and it will be used more frequently
different perk. merciless storm. condition is 90%, blocks for gen 20 second.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3342739#Comment_3342739
Yeah I agree. I could see some use on Artist it’s just similar to blight and nurse where as Artist you’re not typically wanting to waste time kicking gens either. Feels like a bad rework overall.
The perk relies on killer wanting to slug after a down, having mobility to kick gens and makes use of aura reading before it runs out. Artist has little mobility to kick gens and she has little reason to use aura reading over running DMS/Pain res that 99% of artists use.
Blight has little reason to use it because he is not really about slugging but he has mobility to kick gens. Nurse is also really bad at kicking gens and she is not that good at slugging anymore because her recharge add-on were nerfed and whole premise of instant down nurse slugging is kinda dead with her rework.
I think Oni is only killer where this perk makes sense because he's a killer who can kick gens, go into his power, down someone with it. see gen explode really far away and then use aura reading to slug people. Its like infectious fright for Oni when kicking gens. I still do not see anyone using this perk because rewards just are not there. kicking gens as killer is high commitment time investment for killer so the rewards have to be incredible for killers to run it.
I think if your going to kick gens, you'll likely just run overcharge+call of brine.
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remove god window from main building and shrink map are main two changes that i am want from this map rework.
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@calem said:
The eruption nerf is going to be the nail in the coffin for M1 killers in terms of gen regression perks. There is nothing left. Not gonna feel good to see 3 survivors on different gens with the new aura reading and know you cannot do anything to stop them.
And somehow BHVR is still making balance changes that is furthering the gap between low and top tier killers.
I am entirely ready for a Deadlock/Pain Resonance/DMS/Agitation meta where m1 killers just face camp every game.
they got pain res and jolt. that is pretty much new meta after eruption is changed. they are remaining instant regression perks to apply max regression instead of current progression. I am expecting pain res and Jolt to receive current progression in mid-chapter patch. They're clearly the best option available to killer and judging from dev tweat, this is likely their next target in the incoming mid-chapter.
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340981#Comment_3340981
Third Seal is tied to a hex.
Zanshin Tactics showing you nearby vaults and pallets and applying Blindness to an injured survivor you're in chase with (or a survivor, etc.) and for a few seconds after would be... well, it wouldn't be great, it's mostly just a negation of WoO, but it's at least something.
precisely. why would they give you a hex perk effect in a normal perk?
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Maybe it could force blindness on injured survivors you're chasing
that is what hex:third seal does.
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@themirrortwin said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GS9QIXBND2KF/modern-day-sabo.jpg
In the past, the no mither, sabotage game was a big issue. This was because with coms, no mither giving endless self-pick ups (not allowing players to be slugged) and hooking is very difficult with Boil Over and toolboxes. At the time, the Devs remedied this by nerfing sabo so that the hook wouldn't be gone for so long.
This type of game above was degenerate. I got downs but it was meaningless because I could not successfully hook. There was not counterplay. Of the 2 hooks I did get, breakdown would create a dead zone for 3 minutes (and everyone would run to the known dead zones). By the gen they were working on, they didn't even bother running at times because they had no fear. I even brought a green hook offering. At the end of the match, I slugged all of them, and they simply crawled to an open exit gate because they knew there was nothing that I could do.
This is when a poorly designed game mechanic is abused. Dead zones (enabling strategies like the "comp corner" where players run to the corner because they know they are immune or run to zones where it is impossible to achieve a hook) are not fun nor useful to the game.
If anything, this game reinforces a few big points:
1) An endless "unbreakable" effect (as seen in No Mither) with no limitations is unhealthy for the game. It created the horrible Sabo issue in the past and now it is back in another form with no counterplay. Honestly, just completely reword No Mither into something cool rather than abuseable. It is only used in situations like this degenerate game.
2) Hooks should not be completely destroyed after a sacrifice. This creates dead zones that are uncounterable and do not add to the gameplay. It just meaningless punishes killer for doing the objective and has never made sense. Although there was no sacrifice in this game, if there had been, then the remaining players could be unkillable by running to the created deadzone.
Thanks, I hope someone on the Behavior team reads this. We appreciate your work.
i believe that in their finisher mori system, they want to implement unlimited base-kit unbreakable. the issue is that there is no punishment for being slugged because bleed out timer is so long(at 4 minutes) that it takes forever for the killer to get a kill if the survivor force you to slug. that is why on average, killer hook survivors over slug them unless survivor forces them to slug or the position is advantageous to slug. this strategy could be ok if the bleed out timer depleted every time the survivor got picked up, then there would be more of risk vs reward for killer to slug vs hook and survivor could run builds to feed into this gameplay. slugging could cool game pressure tool for killer but in current iteration it is little bit to survivor favored. I think this also reason why Twin is not very popular as killer due their slug strategy being too high risk for not so great rewards.
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@Brokenbones said:
I've actually been running a little experiment on this subject because my initial knee-jerk reaction was that this was an absurd complaint and that the perk is fine
Then I noticed in so many of my games (both roles) I would see Windows super often, I'm talking at least 1-2 people running it per game (excluding myself)
So what I've started doing is on a lot of my Killers, I've begun running Hex: The Third Seal and other blindness related things that can be applied easily and I'm trying to see if the survivors I go against struggle more in chase when my Third seal remains up
I haven't done a huge amount of matches with this yet but I have noticed survivors who I blinded and had the perk did seem more disoriented and made more mistakes.
it is largely crutch perk because a lot of survivor are not that good at looping use it. I think scottjund once said something interesting about lucky break. The scariest perks on survivor are the perks that make weak links into medium links. Window of opportunity makes weak links of the team become strong links.
@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340740#Comment_3340740
At one point I realized I was using Windows a lot and that I was struggling in chase more whenever I wasn't using it.
Which is exactly why I completely stopped using it and forced myself to play the game without it. It took a little while to improve, but since then I feel like I've become a better survivor without it and I never use it anymore.
With that in mind, I'd be interested to see what the results of your experiment are especially once you've done more matches with it.
I have same experience as you with this perk. I used to use it in early days to learn the maps, but after I learned the maps. I decided to take it off for like 50 games and eventually I did not need perk anymore. I could visualized every map and every loop in my head without needing the perk.
you can definitely learn to play the game without windows but window is nice for seeing your teammate in chase when they drop pallets and it helps with not going into deadzones when pallet are broken via your teammate droping them. so I still understand people position in using the perk.
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@SkeletalElite said:
Coup should be changed so that it doesn't increase the lunge duration as long but it also has a large bonus to lunge speed so that the total distance is the same but over less time..
if dev follow their add-on list. Heavy painting and boyfriend memo. both of these add-on increase lunge distance by 30%. I feel like m1 killer will not really use the perk because the bonus might be too small to make a difference in safe pallet loops even if the perk had unlimited tokens. perhaps 30% lunge speed and 30% lunge distance could work though i wonder how strong that stat synergy is.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340281#Comment_3340281
I could ask you the same thing about eruption.
But, what i really want is for us to either :
- Balance the game around top players
- Balance the game around average players
If we want to balance the game around top players, which i am assuming you do, because you mention blight and nurse, which are a large minority of players, let alone good ones. Then we need to take a look at what top survivors are capable of, and survivors as a whole need some massive nerfs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s
Or, if you think that the above gameplay is fine, because those survivors are rare. Then we need to balance around the "average player" So lets look at kill rates.
https://gonintendo.com/attachments/image/15970/file/e985e46cf38ae5a3bf9ebb02d95d8133.png
If we are balancing around the "average" player and the devs are looking or a 60% kill rate (which they have stated at some point) that means we need to:
Massively buff:
- Nurse
- Trickster
- Billy
Minor buff:
- Demo
- Doctor
- Trapper
- Blight
- Twins
- Deathslinger
- Huntress
So which is it? Should we balance the game around the top players like you said? Or should we balance around the average player?
I am just saying that historically. DBD has already had a very powerful exhaustion perk that was universally meta. I would be surprised for them to weaken DH to the ground and not introduce another exhaustion perk that takes its place.
I also do not agree that survivor need massive nerfs, maybe nerf in certain aspects of their gameplay but I would say that its better to buff killer powers then it is nerf survivors because better killers can use their killer power more effectively to win games while worse killer will not notice much of a change in effectiveness as they will not use their power at its peak. Nurse and Blight are good because their power at peak is relatively rewarding to use. The difference between good nurse and good blight is night and day compare to bad blight and weaker nurse. Sure there is skill-floor difference reflected in kill-rates(Like bad nurse does worse then bad blight) but that aspect is normal for every video game. This is just my opinion but i think a lot of peak killer power usages do not match peak survivor gameplay. The majority of the cast of killer have narrow usages in their powers and little creativity flexibility to win. that is why I think a lot of them struggle to put up any resistance against strong survivors then again, maybe survivor do not want any resistance and want to have dominating wins against killers. I have no clue.
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@Blueberry said:
Honestly with how many bad perks there are on both sides we need to see like 20 perks (10 per side) getting buffs/reworks on every mid chapter patch, so that’s every 3 months. This is like a bare minimum too, it honestly needs an even faster rate than that. With how many awful perks there are we have a lot of catching up to do. Map reworks and perk changes need to be up there in terms of top priorities.
Getting lots of regular perk updates makes the game feel fresh and prevents it from getting as stale.
BVHR does not do that for killer. I imagine that if they do touch killer meta perks, they will do same thing as they did in 6.1. kill current meta perks, replace them with something similar. you can expect to see another perk get buffed. Like I don't know, they might buff oppression where it gives 5%(7.5%) gen kick to 3 gens and reduce it cooldown to 30 second while eruption getting gutted in some particular way.
If they weaken cob to 125% where it becomes not worth using, they might buff like overcharge to be 300% regression for first 30 seconds. so now instead of cob+eruption being meta, it becomes overcharge+oppression. survivor now complain that new OC+Oppression is imbalanced instead of cob+eruption.
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@wydyadoit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/363933/the-fundamental-issue-with-dead-hard
combining dead hard and deliverance is basically a guaranteed escape if you're hooked after gates are open. dead hard, adrenaline and deliverance is basically free money.
dead hard should apply broken. not endurance. if you use dead hard you're broken. and the perk disables for the remainder of the match. give it decisive strike balancing.
you'd think after all the legion nonsense behavior would learn that mending is a pointless mechanic.
there is probably an easier to kill the perk such as Head on treatment. Put a 3 second delay which makes your character flash in white(like dredge nightfall) before activating dead hard. During this time, you get shock therapy doctor debuff that prevents you from vaulting or putting down pallets. Baiting DH in the open and DH at pallets becomes cakewalk to counter now.