Devil_hit11
Devil_hit11
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294790#Comment_3294790
Weakening her traps but making her dash better, her dash is not really useful at many tiles and people barely use it so her game delay is basically her main power and I find that rather boring therefore I wanted to make the part of her stronger that actually involves the Pig doing something.
I think some of them like the Ghostface one are quality of life for survivor, but then again revealing him has basically never worked that well and people have always complained that it is inconsistent... With this change at least you won't look at his face anymore and still not reveal him...
I would not call it survivor bias though, I buffed some killers, gave others quality of life. But if you want to be more specific why don't think they are good changes we could discuss that.
most of the changes just feel like, "I hate how this character makes me lose in this annoying way, please remove that annoying way to lose". pig does not need a negative change on reverse bear traps, those traps are suppose to mori you if you fail chases and recklessly smash generators.
I would say pig suffers from poor base-kit balance and a bunch of add-on that should be all base-kit with stronger numbers. its this weird thing where pig has generator slowdown, stealth, minor pallet anti-loop and believe it or not, anti-shift w play with the dash but all these aspect of her active kit are under-tuned. If you use add-on to improve them, they become more relevant in her kit but they're still overall not great and she still struggles to make good use out of her tools. If I had to take a guess why her kit is balanced like this. I am thinking two possible reasons.
1) Concerned that the mori too strong
2) Fear of the character becoming a jack of all trades, a master of none.
Its case of dev just being overall caution on her design which is same thing that Sadako suffers from. Put Combat straps, John medical files, Last will and Gears base-kit. they would need buff the last 3 add-on's as well because numbers are too low before putting them base-kit and rework those add-on into slightly different add-on that change less critical statistics. I have idea's to what reworked add-on could be but I do not see a point with talking about each killer mainly because very little changes.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294381#Comment_3294381
As far as I know her Traps can only be disabled by flashlights and by triggering them normally, therefore I would like the option to do it this way, escpecially since it would take the survivor more time to do so instead of just running into it, it would also be a good solution for newer players, since they probably don't know how to properly disable a trap and when to do it, while good coordinated teams already harass the hag from the beginning of the match and will disable her traps constantly while she is hooking someone or out of range to teleport to them... I also think that deleting traps is a nice quality of life thing.
What exactly is bugged about her currently?
I don't think you should judget the argument made from the standpoint of "you're not well informed therefore you cannot be right" I played basically every killer in the game for a certain amount of time, some are more complicated some are less, and for me Hag just feels like a better trapper. When I played her, even against flashlights I just took a 3 gen from the beginning and trapped it as much as I could, I have not lost more than 1-2 games on her of the dozens I've played and I've come to find her rather boring to play.
I would also think that I understand what the issues of most killers are, some are mostly fine and I would just like to give them something as a little goodie... But overall the issues are:
Trapper: Collecting and setting traps takes too much time
Hillbilly: Weak addons, unnecessary Overheat mechanic, Range addons make it too hard to effectively gain distance against her
Nurse: Exposed perks work too well on her cutting her chase times down drastically
Myers: Ridiculously broken tombstone addon, weak early game, can run out of his power
Doctor: No map mobility
Freddy: Weak addons, basically worse chase than clown but with a teleport
Pig: Dash is basically her secondary power and barely used at all, Game slowdown through traps is her main thing right now
Clown: No map mobility
Spirit: MDR is probably the most OP addon in the game, or at least in the top 3
Pyramid Head: Weak addons
Deathslinger: Didn't get anything back for his bigger terrorradius and longer wind up
Blight: Addons are way too good for how strong he is already
Twins: Sluggish to play because of long delay between switching and holding victor hostage as the most boring but effective counterplay
Trickster: Main event is most of the time not up when you could use it, so it just goes to waste
Cenobite: Annoying to get constantly interrupted while trying to solve the box
Onryo: Overall rather weak and only strong with her condemn playstyle
Wesker: Way too good at tunneling of hook since the infection will rise during that
I think those are the most obvious flaws they suffer under currently and I don't think you need to main a killer to figure out why they are weak or what could be a way to improve them, if you however have criticism about why the things I wanted to change are bad then go ahead.
I was thinking of writing a post where I suggest 1 change to each killer to improve them similar to this post, but I got lazy to write it. With that being said, I do not think these are good changes. these some really strange survivor bias changes like destroying hag's traps for free and weakening pig's reverse bear traps. really strange suggestions. I do not agree with any of them.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294335#Comment_3294335
No I get what you are saying but the point is the Knight 3 gen lock strategy has no counter. The others are unfun strategies that are of course a consequence of not so great design of the killer but they still have counter play.
The 3 gen lockdown with Eruption, COB etc has no counter and the Knight is an anti loop killer, even if a somewhat janky one at that. But they aren't playing to his power, they are exploiting a perk combo and his power to create an unwinnable scenario for survivors. Can you not see the distinction here?
As people have stated in the post and hens also says this in the video at the end at some 15:00 or so. its problem with the perks says this in the video at the end at some 15:00 or so. its problem with the perks -Overcharge and Call of brine- and nothing to do with killer. He is just showcasing how strong the perks are. it is not killer dependent or map dependent. he is using an example map and an example killer.
stronger killer are better at 3 gens. for example, all these m1 hits he got on knight in his 60 minute game are all instant downs for leatherface for example. stronger killer can win off 3 gens. its just that 3 gens are typically done by weaker killers because the weaker killer lack chase potential and have no real mobility or hook-kill pressure. Knight falls into category. No real mobility to counter shift-w and poor hook-kill pressure. Too slow at downing survivors.
@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294556#Comment_3294556
I dont care about the game Hens showcased. This was not the topic and there is 0 point in bringing that up.
You just dont have any arguments, this is why you bring up something which was unrelated to the topic.
Killers who refuse to try to kill Survivors and just protect their Gens without any intention to commit to a chase to get a down are holding the game hostage. And now I am just waiting for your proof of what some Mod said on this Forum. Everything else will be ignored, because you bring up unrelated things because you cannot proof your "point".
(Or, alternative - you can now write something and since you had the last word, you can think that you won this argument :) )
Hens is purposely taking the game hostage, but on imbalanced maps, Survivors vs m1 killers can hold the game hostage by infinitely healing and hold-w away from the 3 gen. I usually 3 gen on Gideon's meat packing plant because the pallets are very imbalanced. Aggressively chasing survivor's on this map is not interesting for me. I am sure other killer do same thing on other maps that have too many time-wasting loops and are too easy to shift-w through health-state+pallet looping. Ideally killer not be balanced around camping generator and more balanced around chasing survivors around the map with their ability. I see 3 gen camping as more of coping mechanism for poorly balanced killer powers.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294055#Comment_3294055
It is a 0.4 second delay, how is it that much of an issue for you to not have fun anymore?? Insta shooting slinger was stupid and it is good that it's gone because aiming was basically irrelevant because you already did that while following and the survivor could not dodge it, because he had no clue when a shot was coming. I'm completely fine with people not having fun with a killer that was that unfun to against because it got changed to be less brain dead...
Why do people always make such a big deal out of small changes that make the game more enjoyable for the other side... Slinger and Spirit changes where not that big of a deal that it should change anyone's fun and I'm glad those things got changed.
"learn to use pallets and line of sight along with 110% m/s to make distance."
What does that answer now?? That does not change the fact that most shots slinger fires cannot be reaction dodged because it is humanly not possible because of the travel time of singers projectile and the human reaction time + ping/imput delay...
It is a 0.4 second delay, how is it that much of an issue for you to not have fun anymore??
it makes wiggling too strong given his 1 ammo count. survivor is somewhat braindead in my opinion against him. there is more odds for him to miss then there is for him to land his shot and in some cases, its physically impossible for slinger to land the shot if the survivor is good enough at movement. The change makes his aiming irrelevant.
Why do people always make such a big deal out of small changes
A) Because they're not small changes. they make the killer a lot less fun to play.
B) They're not as interesting to go against.
That does not change the fact that most shots slinger fires cannot be reaction dodged because it is humanly not possible because of the travel time of singers projectile and the human reaction time + ping/imput delay...
your heavily convinced that he has no counter-play when I am saying he does counter-play to his gun. this is becoming pointless conversation.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293926#Comment_3293926
Knight feels great to play. But for every 10 Knights I came across, only 1 or 2 understood how to play him right. Even on Midwich or Gideon, where this killer is, without a doubt, S tier, people put guards terribly or ran m1 without the ability.
I'm surprised that so many people still consider him a bad killer and write it everywhere, instead of looking at good examples of his gameplay and going to try to get better at it.
he is fine in indoor maps, but that is like every killer practically. his time to down just feels slow. he was better in ptb on outdoor maps and could use more wide add-on because map of realm was all he needed to get guards into chases. now the guards are easier to counter-play(avoid) with less detection. I had some ideas to make him more fun to play against for "survivors" while making him a lot stronger with much higher-skill cieling and skill-floor.
I agree with your opening post. perhaps they fix all his bug and slightly improve his base-kit with your requested change. It would greatly help his add-on variety.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294020#Comment_3294020
Not at a certain distance... Everything below 10m or so cannot be reacted to with human reaction time, yeah sure shots above might be possible to dodge, but not below, and that's the majority of shots a deaths linger will usually try on you...
And exactly to have somewhat of an idea when he is about to shoot it is a good thing that he has somewhat of a delay and cannot insta shoot anymore.
learn to use pallets and line of sight along with 110% m/s to make distance.
And exactly to have somewhat of an idea when he is about to shoot it is a good thing that he has somewhat of a delay and cannot insta shoot anymore.
no, it is badly balanced. Its one of the thing that needs to be reverted for slinger to remotely be enjoyable to play.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294031#Comment_3294031
Okay, but you can just keep applying it on the same gen over and over with no cooldown.
Doesn't that seem like it could be an issue for people who can't hit that?
Like, at least give it a cooldown. Hell, make it harder to hit and buff the regression to 100% but make it not stack with CoB.
the point of the perk is to punish you for gen-tapping. there is no cooldown to gen-tapping, so putting cooldown for killer to punish gen-tapping makes no sense.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293792#Comment_3293792
If ping + reaction time is more than the traveling time of the projectile then how in the world are you supposed to reaction dodge it?? It is more of the slinger missing and not the survivor juking and yeah sure you can guess right and make the slinger miss, but you cannot reaction dodge a projectile if it moves that fast... Are you ignoring human reaction time being higher than the time it takes the projectile to reach you or what??
I'm not oversimplifying anything, that is why people hated to go against slinger, since you could never know when he would shoot. Yeah sure probably he would shoot before you round a safe corner, but that's about it...
Your not suppose to know precisely when he would shoot. It is approximation for when he will shoot and where he will shoot. that is what hens is doing in the video. It is half guessing, half-knowing. For me personally, I could react to certain long distance shots but part of that is experience in playing the killer and knowing the killer's gameplay tendencies.
It is more of the slinger missing and not the survivor juking and yeah sure you can guess right and make the slinger miss
You could easily flip this statement and say its survivor having bad movement that allows deathslinger to hit shots in current iteration. you have to rely on survivor having poor movement and overall poor looping to hit shots now. that is why it is not fun experience to play him now. lots of control on survivor side, not much control on killer side.
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very creative perks. I have list of creative perks I want to put. I was going to put them in creation section of forum but creation section of the forum is gone. I won't post my idea until new year which is Jan 1.
A lot of very interesting perks. Lots of negative effects on most of these perk though.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293691#Comment_3293691
The standard is irrelevant. Either knight gets the hit or the guard gets the hit by the time it comes out. Otherwise it's used to curtail a patrol....which is absolutely fine. If you're in a loop where it spawns simply pressure the survivor away from it where they will inevitably be hit by the guard. Survivors have no other way of interacting with the power.
110% move speed is still faster than survivors and is incredibly oppressive for an ability the knight can just poot out at will. Again this just makes his boring bits worse.
I'm not sure your realize the incredible action compression kicking everything automatically gives just for brushing an orb by it. While I'd love to break all the walls and kick the gen in the dead dawg main building with no effort on my part, I'm also certain it's terribly imbalanced.
The standard is irrelevant. Either knight gets the hit or the guard gets the hit by the time it comes out. Otherwise it's used to curtail a patrol....which is absolutely fine.
How is that fine? its literally erasing an entire element of knight's power for free.
The flag is also especially bad because it forces the knight to "camp" the flag and restricts his movement when using his power. If you follow the survivor and ignore the flag, I have seen some very clever survivors attempt to pick up the flag. If they pick up flag,
you gain following buffs for 3 seconds
-50% haste effect
-3 second endurance effect.
---This is not good way to design drawbacks on killer powers for having two killers out. The only reason why this is not being complained about is because how easy it is to neutralize the flag's effectiveness(flag camping) but these buffs are immensely strong.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293899#Comment_3293899
"Survivors are not under a time crunch? That's quite a hot take."
I'd say that's pretty unanimously agreed on by most high hour players. Wouldn't really call it a hot take.
"An early slowdown or two is more than sufficient on killers with a strong chase power."
More than sufficient on like 5% of the killer roster. With the other 95% of the roster and against actually equally very good survivors? No, it's not enough. If they're equally very good the survivors have to make a lot of mistakes for it to work.
"Pretty much any build is 2k worthy, which is a viable build"
I mean if you just wanna face camp and tunnel people out you can say zero perks is 2k worthy so that's kind of a mute point. If were talking actually playing normally and any build is 2k worthy? Not a chance.
I'm assuming very good vs very good as that's how we determine objectivity. Not your average bad players.
what makes you think that survivors are not in a time crutch? They definitely are. In fact, every single meta perk on survivor side has been time-crutch reduction perk for survivor or time-crutch increase perk for killer.
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I think main reason why killer still using same perks is because their perks really safe and very weak. The dev are so concerned of killer using any perk for even smallest advantage on x killer synergy that any good synergy is erased or prevented entirely.
This ultimately extends to killer powers as well. Most of killer powers are pretty bad vs good survivors so historically, the killer has less perk variety then survivor because their role is weaker. You get more perk flexibility as killer if your killer is stronger and you can win the match through skill. Unfortunately, Killer is not a newbie friendly role and a lot of killer skill relies mainly on survivor skill. As a result, Killer relies on more on raw advantage through perks to make up poor balance on killer powers.
They would need buff a ton of perks and also make killer powers way stronger for killer to have more freedom in perk selection. One interesting relationship is that when the killer is stronger, the survivor's perk selection becomes more narrow, so always one side suffers in term of perk variety in my opinion.
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Knight feels bad to play right now. Map of the realm +6->+4 really hurts his viability from the ptb. His guard placing patrol is still bugged and his units can barely enter chase with the add-on itself. He is also has exploit that some people are abusing which allows him to press the interact button to kick gens and grab potato bad survivors off generators.
He needs more love and more bug-fixing. sad killer to play at the moment.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293298#Comment_3293298
"As crowman kinda eluded, you can side-step slinger's harpoon gun on reaction because of the travel distance on harpoon & tiny hitbox. Its why his change is perceived really negatively by killers because you can be really good at aiming but in the end, all that matters is the survivor's movement."
No you cannot?? Based on reaction time + ping that is more than the travel distance, it is physically impossible to dodge that thin??
There is nothing to read when he just shortly tabs his ADS? This has nothing to do with reading it was just free zoning.
Demogorgons shred has basically no slowdown unless you play like an idiot and hold it for too long? Otherwise you only get slowed down for the fraction of a second... Therefore I don't see your point there.
No you cannot?? Based on reaction time + ping that is more than the travel distance, it is physically impossible to dodge that thin??
what do you think hens is doing in the video? it is possible. there is skill in guessing a finite amount of possibilities. Its what all better survivor player's did against him.
There is nothing to read when he just shortly tabs his ADS? This has nothing to do with reading it was just free zoning.
Your belittling the killer player and grossly oversimplifying the gameplay.
Dude you have to be pretending... Slingers wind up for ADS is so short compared to like huntress or so, and nobody complains about huntress being too weak
bigger hitboxes makes her more balanced towards wiggling. the survivor's skill-cap is based off how well they wiggle vs how well she aim's. her skill-cap is more geared towards timing throws(To avoid being LOS) and little bit less around aim. before you overly simplify, There is skill in wiggling and there is skill in timing.
he was reverse. He was less about timing(quick-scoping), and more about aim but survivor gameplay was less about wiggling and more about timed jukes/side steps. obviously there was still some timing in shooting as reckless shooting with 1 ammo is not advised and survivor still wiggled in certain cases if they were very ahead of slinger in order to get to key pallets and maximize the risk of shooting but it was not core of the gameplay.
@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293334#Comment_3293334
If you make every try to loop 50%, then each hit/chase takes 0-15s (you will win the chase statistically in at most 3 tries with confidence of 87,5%, because 5s/penalty each time you miss). That will make looping extremely bad and there would be no point in doing so. It would again make hiding or holding W much better strategy, because you can potentially save more then 5s this way.
The game needs to allow survivors to loop so long as they don't make any mistake (while making mistake should be super easy to do, to the point that even best loopers do them). Otherwise you are making all games free killer wins, or you need to reduce gen times significantly (and change how the game is played).
Otherwise what would you suggest survivor to do to try to win? You need to give both sides chance to play/win the game. I am not suggesting to make heals take 2s, because killers would not be able to down survivors. Why would you suggest buffs that would make survivors trying to loop killer pointless?
That will make looping extremely bad and there would be no point in doing so. It would again make hiding or holding W much better strategy, because you can potentially save more then 5s this way.
Holding-W already is strongest strategy. Killer have accepted that as norm and run generator defence in anticipation of hold-w gameplay. Generators are starting to be balanced around this gameplay optimization as well. Hiding can can be strong if the entire team commits to it but I think its not too popular in current dbd because the skill-cap of hiding is strangely higher then looping in current dbd. Lack of requirement to do so and not many good perks to make it consistently effective.
The game needs to allow survivors to loop so long as they don't make any mistake (while making mistake should be super easy to do, to the point that even best loopers do them).
The loops are still relatively too safe in many places on maps so there is relatively low possibility to make mistakes in loops. your right that making mistakes should be super easy to do but it is not like that. that is why they is large divide between weaker and stronger killers. Stronger killer can create more situations favourable towards the killer to get hits. More chances to get hits equates to more chances for survivor to make a mistake. your assuming this weakens looping. In a vacuum looping does become weaker but I would say that looping becomes more risky. Ideally, looping should be infinitive rewarding but infinitive risky(near impossible to be flawless at).
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293298#Comment_3293298
So all you want is to always be able to hit survivors at every loop everywhere every time. Well time to make gens 60s then if looping is no longer possible.
Like sure the game will become boring, but if there's no looping for survivors because killer can outplay everything every time, then all survivors can do is decide where to die to maximize carry-to-hook time and finding other survivors time. Pretty boring, but there are no other options if looping is denied to the game.
So all you want is to always be able to hit survivors at every loop everywhere every time. Well time to make gens 60s then if looping is no longer possible.
how did you conclude that? The chance to hit a survivors at every loop does not equal get a hit on every single loop. Its opportunity for you to get hit on every junction. that is what anti-loop is. it is suppose to be adding to risk to looping. Slinger added risk to most tiles in a lot of situations. That was unfun for survivor. The whole m/s reduction that @Archol123 is talking about in regards to killer is not adding risk to survivor looping. its making the powers more consistent to loop. that is like opposite effect. that is why a lot of the killers do not do too well. too safe powers.
Like sure the game will become boring, but if there's no looping for survivors because killer can outplay everything every time, then all survivors can do is decide where to die to maximize carry-to-hook time
your already doing that every game as survivor.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293094#Comment_3293094
Deathslinger also does not allow much looping for the survivor besides taking cover behind large tiles and maybe crouching sometimes if possible, just because you cannot react to the shot itself, because it is too fast.
Why would his skill not matter much aim wise?? Now it matters even more since you have the delay on ADS survivors get a hint when they need to try to juke so now it depends even more on your aim, because before the change you could insta shoot without any warning.
Holding w against a 110% killer is still quite effective but I agree that if you could hide behind objects while getting closer a small terroradius was helpful. But most maps are rather open so it oftentimes is not that easy anyway.
It seems you misunderstand what I meant with punishment... When you just tabbed ADS to get closer Slinger himself did not really get slowed down a lot, because the ADS was instant, what you describe is not punishment since the intention to shoot is only pretended to get closer to the survivor and if they react to it they are getting zoned. Of course a range killer should loose distance for trying to use his power? That's why every single range in the game gets slowed down or Billy gets slowed down when he uses his chainsaw, because if that was not the case then how do you loop those killers?
It was free zoning because deathslinger did not get slowed down, the survivor needed to try to avoid getting hit and therefore lost distance, that's why the current version is far better, because that's not possible anymore.
If for example Demogorgon did not get slowed down at all during holding his Shred, this would be terrible design, because as soon as you get into critical distance survivors would need to try to juke and unless a tile is close the demogorgon has no reason to use his shred, since there is the possibility of failure and instead can just follow and M1, that's the reason why zoning abilites need to lower the killers MS below that of survivors, because otherwise such stuff would happen.
Free win at exit gates what? Dude sometimes I seriously don't understand what you are even trying to say or why, why should Deathslinger be a free win at the exit gate??
I think his ADS is fine now and you have no idea what you are even talking about, you don't understand what zoning means in that context and why it needs to slow down the killer and for some reason human reaction time is not a thing because bots also learn how to dodge the shot...
I don't know what to tell people like you that just close the eyes in front of reality...
Why would his skill not matter much aim wise?? Now it matters even more since you have the delay on ADS survivors get a hint when they need to try to juke so now it depends even more on your aim, because before the change you could insta shoot without any warning.
As crowman kinda eluded, you can side-step slinger's harpoon gun on reaction because of the travel distance on harpoon & tiny hitbox. Its why his change is perceived really negatively by killers because you can be really good at aiming but in the end, all that matters is the survivor's movement.
It seems you misunderstand what I meant with punishment... When you just tabbed ADS to get closer Slinger himself did not really get slowed down a lot, because the ADS was instant, what you describe is not punishment since the intention to shoot is only pretended to get closer to the survivor and if they react to it they are getting zoned.
Yes, they are getting zoned because they're making bad read on him shooting. The jist behind gameplay is that you as survivor are always way ahead of the killer in term of distance because killer generally break pallets slowly and slinger himself is 110% m/s so he barely catches up. your suppose to take risk in distance gain against his gun in certain instances but give up distance in other instances where you think the deathslinger is going to shoot. It is suppose to be risk to always wiggle against his gun because respecting every single shot allows him to gap-close distance while respecting no shots at all gives him an easy shot to land.
Billy gets slowed down when he uses his chainsaw, because if that was not the case then how do you loop those killers?
If for example Demogorgon did not get slowed down at all during holding his Shred, this would be terrible design, because as soon as you get into critical distance survivors would need to try to juke and unless a tile is close the demogorgon has no reason to use his shred, since there is the possibility of failure and instead can just follow and M1, that's the reason why zoning abilites need to lower the killers MS below that of survivors, because otherwise such stuff would happen.
this is great example of why most of the killer are not able to compete against good survivors because their kit has blatant drawbacks that are too easy to exploit by strong survivor players without a real way for the killer player to usurp the drawback's of the killer ability. Its pretty much lose/lose for using killer power. With less drawbacks on killer powers, survivor would need to take more risks in looping rather then know an accurate predicting outcome ahead of time for every single action the killer does.
I think his ADS is fine now
I think its not fine, hopefully it gets revert one day. entitle to your own opinion though.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293128#Comment_3293128
I will never understand this way of thinking. It has nothing to do with the killer player being a puppet or not. If most people wanted that they would play in a 4-man SWF sweat squad on comms and bring the best stuff and map offerings every game.
The reason this game is popular and still relevant is its chases. Most people want chases that are fun and interactive for both sides. It has nothing to do, at all, with what you said.
I will never understand your line of thinking because every match you load into as survivor will have at least 1 chase. The more survivor you play, the more chases you get over-time.
Survivor's want to speed-run escape every single match. They want to win every match and T-bag the killer at exit gates. These type of posts are basically: "Why is Sadako not a free instant-win? BVHR, I am not escaping. This is not fun".
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292987#Comment_3292987
The breakable Wall next to the Pallet was just BS. I mean, you can make a Tile less safe, but not completely useless, which would have been the case with the PTB-Wall. Now the window becomes really weak, but at least it is somewhat useable (it is just bad, but not as bad as the Pallet with the PTB-Wall).
Personally, I think Shack should not have any breakable Walls and I am glad they did not add it to other Shacks. Killers should learn how to run Tiles and not make them weak by breaking a Wall.
Regarding the Pallets which were added to certain Main Buildings - those are fine IMO. After they nerfed the Main Buildings (like Ironworks Main Building or Torment Creek Main Building), those Buildings did have nothing going for them. With the breakable Wall you can at least use it once as Survivor.
And in the end, no Killer will lose a game because they need to break a Wall in Chase once per Trial on one of those Maps.
Like there is anything to learn when dropping a ultra-safe pallet for killer. I guess you want me to learn how to press spacebar at the pallet. Ask the killer-bot AI to do it. That breakable wall should appear on all safe pallet loops in the game for m1 killers.
I don't think killer need a breakable wall at the window. you can learn to push the survivor counter-clock wise at a window from the pallet-side. I have no complaints in regards to the window.
those Buildings did have nothing going for them. With the breakable Wall you can at least use it once as Survivor.
It still wastes my time as killer which is free generator time for survivor and free secondary objective at the start of the game which no killer asked for. survivor should learn to loop T-L walls instead of free time-wasting loops like garden of joy dining room loop.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292919#Comment_3292919
And you can only extend chases so long when the game is taking 5ever. The type of player to do the Onryo condemned strat is also going to do the gen kick bot routine and not commit to anyone who is competent in chase.
I am sorry if the killer player is not being your puppet and your not getting your 3-5 generator chases looping m1 killers.
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I see recent discussion just fine. only thing I do not see is view count on posts.
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@Archol123 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/37HV488DVWLU/image.png
That's the tierlist I got from Hens' twitch, so I would not say Slinger is too bad... Barely not a top 10 killer according to hens.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9VW37CNTVQ1S/image.png
And here we have Knightlights tierlist, also from his twitch, from a comp perspective. Deathslinger is in the top 10 of killers, I would therefore not assume that he is in too bad of a position. But giving his kit some more stuff to work with would also be fun, I however don't think he needs a major buff.
this list might as well be my favourite-killer to play list. All this list shows is that 80% of the killer powers need base-kit buffs. Slinger just buffs are could just be reverts. I would rather play iri photocard trickster at this point over deathslinger.
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your problems are likely same problems everyone else has with the killer. too slow guards, no real reward for placing the guards correctly as killer. Easy counter-play for survivor to avoid them. too long chases. Unfun to play as because there no real skill-cap to master for the killer player.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292987#Comment_3292987
What are you talking about? Breakable walls were their way of controlling infinites without fully reworking areas of the map.
The walls on maps where breakable walls exist used to be open walls. they put breakable walls in those places which are secondary objective for the killer to break at the start of the match. Killer did not need secondary objectives. I do not want to go in further detail.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293069#Comment_3293069
The problem with deadhard is that you had no travel time to dodge the projectile, you did not need to run out of it's reach you could just press the button, yes I can imagine that was possible, but that should not be the only thing you can do as counterplay against hist shot.
Hens said in todays stream I think it was, or yesterday, that old slinger was braindead and he really likes the new one since it now requires skill to land a hit and not quickshooting.
I don't really think old slinger would be A tier, he still lacks mobility and pre-running is effective, that's something that does not work as well against the high tier killers.
The point of the instant ADS is that it has no cooldown or punishment for just quickly tapping it over and over again, it was just free zoning and was just stupid AF. The problem with trying to dodge the shot like hens did is that slinger does not have to commit into doing anything in the old version, like I said just tapping ADS does not loose him much, but makes the survivor try to juke a possible hit, free zoning is always an issue.
Hens said in todays stream I think it was, or yesterday, that old slinger was braindead and he really likes the new one since it now requires skill to land a hit and not quickshooting.
I do not think looping deathslinger requires much skill from survivor. its kinda given if your good at survivor that your going beat him without much contest. I would say deathslinger's skill does not matter very much anymore aim-wise. its all up to the survivor movement to mess up. Bad balance in my opinion
he still lacks mobility and pre-running is effective, that's something that does not work as well against the high tier killers.
Pre-running is more effective now because of 32 meter terror radius. In his old iteration, he had 24 meter terror radius and with M&A, he had 16 meter terror radius. It was not that easy to pre-run away, but skilled SWF could do that. I had many games where that would happen to me. He does have lack of mobility, but a ranged attack is pretty good substitute for countering hold-w strategies.
The point of the instant ADS is that it has no cooldown or punishment for just quickly tapping it over and over again, it was just free zoning and was just stupid AF. The problem with trying to dodge the shot like hens did is that slinger does not have to commit into doing anything in the old version, like I said just tapping ADS does not loose him much, but makes the survivor try to juke a possible hit, free zoning is always an issue.
deathslinger did have punishment for quick-tapping it. The punishment is blocking line of sight and preventing slinger from shooting. Your inherit bias makes it sound like killer should lose distance for merely trying to use his power. I do not consider deathslinger's version as free-zoning because if survivor is good at movement, they can use obstacles and wiggle to make it risky for deathslinger to take a shot. This does make you lose distance in term of m1 game but this self-balanced itself out because deathslinger is 110% m/s which makes hold-W in term of m1 gameplay more effective. your suppose use your gun to get hits. Deathslinger is the type of killer where they used line of sight counter-play correctly and added risk vs reward between using it correct at right time without making the survivor impossible to hit at loops.
The type of zoning that I consider unhealthy in dbd is what I refer to as corner-zoning. Some survivor have describe this on some killer powers, namely the Artist and her birds, but I will refer to corner-zoning as brutal-strength type zoning. Its the type of zoning that happens when a pallet is in the corner of the map and the killer can break the pallet in the corner of the map in a specific way such that survivor always takes an m1 hit. Lot of killer powers exhibit this type of gameplay but most of them are ineffective from a pallet ratio to generator time-stand point which is why a lot of killer are not effective. They keep trying to push this type of gameplay onto the killer, but it just does not work, so whatever. This is just side-rant.
I still think deathslinger need revert. DBD balances off bad survivors so deathslinger is unlikely to change as he was not fun enough for survivors. Slinger needs to be free-win at exit gates, anything less is unfun.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293033#Comment_3293033
Sure. Nobody knew how to play against it only you did. Actually I am not right. Everyone new how to play against it, just not in 1v1 fashon. It was always - get downed as far as possible from other survivors and predrop. Don't even try to loop deathslinger, because it's wasted time. That was what I was told how to play against deathslinger in comp scene. And even prethrow will not work in a big number of tiles, because he can just go around that pallet once he hits (so e.g. shack is totally useless against good slinger if you try to loop him there instead of running thru it and just droping the pallet immediately - again only when hit)
strong pallet were not useless vs slinger. All strong pallet were still really strong vs him. pre-drop pallets was recommend sometimes because at certain distances and specific pallet drop-times, deathslinger could shoot as a survivor puts a pallet down and reel around certain objects and do a max distance lunge hit. It was very tight and you need a lot of killer knowledge to do this. For mastering survivor, you needed to know what places this occur and sometimes better play was to drop a pallet sooner to reduce counter-play/avoid situation from happening. To illustrate this with a video. I will use one of otz's old videos.
https://youtu.be/35vBSv7zPGw?t=746you can see at 12:27 how feng puts down a pallet and he is able to reel at the perfect distance to get a hit. pre-drop pallet is talking about these situations.
Another example is at 13:30-13:41 where Adam drops a pallet and deathslinger is able to go around pallets. This is why sometimes pre-dropping pallet was correct play but again, this takes survivor knowledge and skill to play against.
15:32 is example of how a small mistake can lead you to not get a hit when dragging people around objects. It definitely took skill and knowledge to play this.
@Archol123 said:
I would say maybe really small maybe you could be fast enough to push the button in that time, but with 30-60 ms delay to the server that would be rough... But even if we assumed this was possible, which it is probably not from a reaction time based standpoint. Then we would still have the problem that unless the slinger just aims where he will shoot you will not know where he will shoot at, so if he just flicks a little you might still run straight into it... And that's a big if, just because I don't think it is humanly possible to dodge that thing on reaction, based on average human reaction time, input delay and delay of 30-60 ms to the server.
It was definitely possible. I would often dead hard deathslinger's gun on reaction. that was entire mindgame behind his gun is that deathslinger's would shoot a little bit to right or little bit to left of where your character is facing, so you had to guess(win a mindgame) for whether to juke left or juke right as he fires the gun(from a distance).
closest thing to what I am talking about is what Hens does in this chase at 14:16
https://youtu.be/35vBSv7zPGw?t=856You can see how hens moves slightly to the side as soon as deathslinger hold his ADS but a big part of deathslinger was knowing when to shoot and when to bait shots. In this example, deathslinger read correctly hens movement, but i think if hens moved a little closer to the pallet and predicted lowering of ADS, he would probably make the pallet. Deathslinger's chase were chef-kiss. Disregarding that the end result of that game for example was 1 kills, 3 escapes due to really imbalanced gen-speed. I think deathslinger would be A-tier killer by today's standards because of less cooldown on hits, less speed boost(Buff stbfl) and automatic game slowdown perks such as SC:Pain res and Deadlock. 10 second longer gens would really help slinger, re-balancing of old perks like dead hard. Deathslinger might have a chance at 3k in today's more balanced version of dbd compare to before.
As I said, Slinger was high-skill killer to play and very high-skill killer to play against as survivor. peek of dbd gameplay. re-watching this makes me miss old slinger :(
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292976#Comment_3292976
1 or 1.5 years before there were hatch plays and other unfair stuff on survivor side that got removed. Having something unfair from killers was fine because both sides had unfair stuff. Now these unfair things are being slowly removed, so returning 1 side's unfair stuff is bad idea.
Also old deathslinger gave survivors 0 counterplay. Just raise your gun until survivor stops dodging, or until you delete any distance so you can M1. The only counterplay was to rush gens (which got harder as gens are now 90s + there's deadlock now) or predrop pallet once hit. Very much not fun.
it had counter-play, you just were not good at survivor. learn how the AI plays vs ranged killers. It was learn to play issue.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292976#Comment_3292976
Ai does not need to act according to human reactions speeds... That's why AI's or machines are able to do things we cannot do... But great display of ignorance here dude... Have you ever seen AIs in RTS games? Where they have like 10.000 apm, do you also think "if the ai can do it, so can we" it's just not as simple as you're trying to make it. In a videogame like this counterplay should always be based on action and reaction, with the option to provoke a certain reaction and profit on it.
In a videogame like this counterplay should always be based on action and reaction, with the option to provoke a certain reaction and profit on it.
Without going into 3 paragraph of information, Deathslinger's gun is reactable for strong survivor player's. What the AI is doing vs deathslinger gun is same thing I would be doing vs deathslinger's gun. Its just that dbd balances around low-middle survivor players such as your level where the concept of mindgames and good tricky movement is non-existent. When I played against AI as deathslinger, it was huge nostalgia moment for what I used to play against as human survivor players long ago at high MMR with his gun. Those games were crazy.... i used practically nearly 1vs1 deathslinger's as survivor in some games. Fun times. Now I just play all I play against is armies of nurses... blights and some random killers. Deathslinger is really rare to face and if he I ever face him, he usually loses.
DBD balances around middle-level MMR survivor players. In essence, your level. Your survivor-level is bad-level but that is just where all killers are at. Bad-level.
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@jamally093 said:
Am I complaining no I'm rather happy with it but the only problem I have is that it makes no sense why it's the only killer shack to have one shouldn't I don't know all of the killer shacks have one then the idea of breakable walls if I remember was that it made sure survivors didn't constantly run the same loop over and over instead it would teach them to try combining walls and paths together to gain distance simple has that. Killer shack is basically should be that the God pallet is fine where it is but add a breakable wall so survivors don't constantly rely on killer shack instead they should try just learning how to do other loops I've been able to run a killer around with multiple loops without step in or near killer shack once.
The breakable wall on shack was suppose to be in the middle between window and shack pallet in the PTB. Its suppose to make the god pallet, not a god pallet but due to survivor entitlement, The breakable was moved to the doorway because survivor complained that pallet became too weak for survivor. Now the breakable wall makes the window useless on both left side and right side if killer breaks the breakable wall. They weakened the window instead of weakening the problematic pallet.
Funny enough, Killer thought that these breakable walls were going to be put to balance unfair pallets but instead they just added them to create god window loops which forces killer to break the wall or face a bloodlust 3 infinity window loop.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292837#Comment_3292837
Killers need way longer queue times to actually realize how damaging suggestions they give to the game
he was same for like 1-1.5 years and queue times were fine.
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3292837#Comment_3292837
Why would you want to turn him back into the old no brain just quick scope shoot thing... That was terrible to go against, just give him something else, like a long range projectile or something else to add to his kit instead of bringing the terrible stuff back that luckily got changed.
why do you want no-brain dodge every redeemer shot on reaction? No need for longer projectiles when hitting current projectile is at the mercy of survivors. If the AI bots can learn to play against Slinger's gun then you can as well. Survivor entitlement is too much sometimes.
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@Gandor said:
The change was made to remove unfun play from slingers. Aim and stop. Aim and stop. Until you get survivor to corner. No counterplay, no chance to do anything. You want this playstyle to return. Big no from my side. Let's buff slinger in a different way.
there's no other buff that he needs other then this one.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290443#Comment_3290443
I literally said it entirely is about players who camp a 3-gen at the start of the match and never leave the area. The entire post, in fact, is about that. It was literally the first 2 paragraphs of the post.
Survivors can 3-gen themselves, but I think people often forget that the killer has the power to force a 3-gen since the beginning. I mean, it's literally how most trap killers win anyways, because they otherwise cannot protect a wide generator spread (neither can most other killers).
Ive stated it before, I dont blame the players for being this way. I think the game design does not support killers enough to deal with a more health playstyle atm. I also think people are always going to lean towards what is best naturally, people are not going to intentionally handicap themselves to be "fair", it would be silly to assume so.
It would be neat to have increased movement speed after hooking a survivor that goes away once you enter a chase, it would cause people to not do stuff as much. But also perks should always reward killers for doing their objective. Old Pop Goes and Pain Res were good for this since you had to hook survivors to get them; the current meta just rewards players without need to progress the game, which enables holding the game hostage among other things.
Survivors can 3-gen themselves, but I think people often forget that the killer has the power to force a 3-gen since the beginning. I mean, it's literally how most trap killers win anyways, because they otherwise cannot protect a wide generator spread (neither can most other killers).
You answered your own question in opening post. "Serious question, how is this fun."
Its not fun playing weak killers that have weak chase potential to be easily outplayed by survivors. Seriously, Take the new killer, the Knight. Why would a killer player roam around the map looking for chases with such a s** chase power? Most of killer powers are just plagued with drawbacks and survivor-fun mechanics. Your expecting trapper to fly around the map chasing people with no ability and hoping that he magically 3-4k's. You have to make killer power entertaining for killer player to use in order for killer player to entertain you in the chase. So far, they have only made killer entertaining for the survivor to go against but forgot the killer player playing the killer. inadequate chasing power to pressure the map results in 3 gen gameplay.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291947#Comment_3291947
I'm not a game designer, there are probably a hundred things you could do with Eruption, most of them thematic to the Nemesis. My suggestion is to make it about controlling the trial via constantly being on a new survivor without having to search, which seems to be what the other two perks are designed to achieve too; Lethal Pursuer lets you start a chase immediately, and Hysteria seems... well, okay, I really don't know about Hysteria, that perk is weird.
As for your second statement, no it doesn't. I get what you're saying, that you think DBD is balanced around lower-skilled players and said players are inefficient, but that doesn't actually translate to the take you're trying to make here. But to take it at face value for a second, there's a big difference between choosing to do nothing (or more accurately, nothing productive ) and being forced to do nothing.
there's a big difference between choosing to do nothing (or more accurately, nothing productive ) and being forced to do nothing
sounds like same end result.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291334#Comment_3291334
"The game needs to be balanced around efficiency."
Unfortunately it most likely never will be because they want survivors having an edge to keep the good players interested.
-"I mean perks like this exist. Scourge hook: Gift of pain"
Here's the problem with this idea. Use a perk and hook anyone and get some benefit or hook one person with no perk required and get massive benefit. Which one is better?
Basekit the killer should have 1:1 repair with an alive surviovr if all 4 are alive. For every dead survivor the killer's regression should go down by half. Base kit the killer should get something better than (25% generator reduction) / (3 hooks) = ~8% slowdown base kit for a survivor's first hook if no one has been killed yet. Anything less than that means I should tunnel one person out.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290851#Comment_3290851
-"Spirit, Pyramid Head, Artist, Plague, they are all really good and also played in tournaments constantly."
Let's say there is a tournament that allows 1 green/1yellow addon for the killer and the first round of knock out is on Artist map. Who will chose PH over Blight? Who will choose Plague over Nurse? Nobody. And while Artist is a good killer she is just mechanically inferior to Nurse and Blight (while he has hug tech).
If you could play any killer with any addons would people play those killers over Nurse and Blight? The answer is no 99.9% of the time for everyone on that list except potentially Spirit. The only problem is that she god hardcore nerfed with the directional phasing sounds.
-"That's the issue when you don't run corrupt, people will start doing the gen they spawned right next to"
This is a general game design issue. The killer should have gotten either Deadlock or Corrupt basekit in the 6.0 update. They didn't do that however because 1) they lock the good gen regression perks behind premium DLC killers. 2) survivors really hated playing against corrupt every game.
-"There are many onesided maps yes, but how is it fun just standing next to a hook?"
You're completely dodging the issue. Also survivors never consider your fun when they want to loop you for 3 gens and have everything done in four minutes with zero kills and approximately 2-3 chases.
If survivors stop doing generators and push as a team for an early rescue the person on the hook rarely goes to stage two. But survivors who play efficiently do not want to do that because it gives room for the killer to reset the progress on those generators. They want to finish the gens and then rescue right before stage two. Hook camping is a cycle created by efficient play that is reinforced by completely unbalanced map design.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3290706#Comment_3290706
Nightmare mode would be fun but you forgot one thing : first person camera for all players. Three and four man SWF groups would be pretty fair if they had to play with some elements of Nightmare mode.
~8% slowdown base kit for a survivor's first hook if no one has been killed yet. Anything less than that means I should tunnel one person out.
I agree.
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both perks require a down. As a result, both perks are earned.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3291814#Comment_3291814
That change would worsen the aspect of the perk that's actually causing problems, though. The Incapacitated is why we're having this conversation to begin with, because its application and length cause frustrating scenarios where only those on comms can respond effectively to it and those playing without comms are left to twist in the wind.
Completely separate from the design of Eruption specifically, Incapacitated is just not a status effect that should be hitting someone for that long. It's a lot to ask of a survivor to do nothing for thirty full seconds if they aren't playing on comms and can't avoid it. That's just not good design.
Someone above suggested replacing Incapacitated with just blocking the generator, and that would be more useful for a more healthy version of the perk's current niche. Personally, I think the perk should be given a different niche, but even if you like what Eruption is meant to achieve right now there are better and more healthily balanced ways of achieving it.
I think the perk should be given a different niche, but even if you like what Eruption is meant to achieve right now there are better and more healthily balanced ways of achieving it.
like what? what exactly will reduce the survivor's total up-time on generators? its only perk right now that punishes survivors for being glued on generators. Rewards the killer for downs, punishes survivor for ineffective looping.
Incapacitated is just not a status effect that should be hitting someone for that long. It's a lot to ask of a survivor to do nothing for thirty full seconds
why? dbd already balances around survivors doing nothing, inefficiency.
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@jesterkind said:
I think it's a fairly uncontroversial statement to say that Eruption fills an unhealthy niche in the game right now- whether you think it's just straight overpowered, or just poorly designed in that it loses a ton of effectiveness against SWFs, it's clear that changing this perk could benefit everyone.
So, first off, I don't think its activation mechanic or regression portion should be changed at all, really. I think that part is fair and balanced, and I think it's the secondary mechanic (the Incapacitated status effect) that should see some changes. With that in mind, here's what I'd suggest:
The explosion affects a radius around the generator, not just whoever is working on it. This standardises the perk's effect against both solo queue and SWF, as those on comms wouldn't be able to last-second inform their teammate they're about to go down if that teammate would need more than that last second to actually clear the small radius, which in turn means we can balance the effect based on the fact that it'll be more consistently activated. With that in mind...
No more Incapacitated, instead reveal auras. If you're near an affected generator when it explodes, you scream, and then your aura is revealed for a fairly lengthy amount of time. I suggest this change in particular for a few reasons- first is that, unlike Incapacitated, it's a mechanic that has direct counters on the survivor side in terms of perks which could have a knock-on effect to diversify the meta a little bit. The second is that it's about as useful as the old effect for the killer if it only affects one survivor, and still provides decent value if it hits more than one-- as well as giving the killer good info that encourages them not to stick around the hook after they secure it.
With those two changes implemented, I think Eruption would be in a much more healthy spot. Still very useful for killers, but less sharply binary in terms of SWF vs solo, as well as having more direct counters and reactions on the survivor side. What do you guys think?
eruption is specifically designed to be a perk to refund the time in kicking generators. Incapacitated is how the entire perk gains value.
When they changed scourge hook pain resonance, one of description of dev's opinion in regard to that perk was jack of trades perk. Eruption is now jack of all trades perk. It does everything. it has regression, incapacitated and tracking capacity from survivor's screaming. With how current version of how this perk functions, it is combined mini-pop goes weasel+mini dead man switch. I could heavily see dev's weakening the perk by removing the regression of the perk simply because pop goes weasel is supposedly meant to fill the role of a generator kicking perk that provides raw regression to generators while no other perk fills the role of applying incapacitated effect on survivors.
a possible change to the perk is removing the regression aspect of the perk from 10%->0%. Perhaps they might improve the incapacitated effect of the perk from 25 second->30 seconds and add a 5 second lingering effect upon leaving the generator to prevent clever survivors from avoiding the effect. The perk would be less of jack of all trade perk and more of specialized perk.
@SpaghettiYOLO said:
Incapacitated is fine. I'd say the perk is fine in terms of its effects and lengths. What should be changed about it is it should have a timer on how long it can be applied to a gen. Call of Brine is 60 seconds, Overcharge is 30 seconds. Eruption should have a 45 second timer before the effect leaves the gen. If it doesn't get procced in that time, no cooldown. If it does proc, then it still gets the normal cooldown it has now. This would solve a lot. Maybe even make it so it can only be applied to a maximum of 3 gens. I feel like both of these suggestion would make it much healthier. People will still complain, but the perk was nearly useless when the Incapacitated effect was 16 seconds.
This change sounds like a change that punishes weaker killers who typically have longer chase times but keeps the perk exactly the same for stronger killer that end chases quickly.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290268#Comment_3290268
"-some people just want to play with others that know what they are doing. "
I completely understand as there is a MMR group that struggles severely in solo queue. The problem is when you get people with thousands of hours who play in a SWF to bully the killer. They don't even have to be swat teams doing clock call outs. They just have to be 20% more efficient on generators to make the game just incredibly stupid for killer. Merely calling out the killer's location a few times and the perks they are using along with coordinating saves/gens makes you 20-40% more efficient at the game. That isn't fair.
If SWF came with ANY kind of limitation that made solo queue better it would be a choice of "side grade" instead of pure upgrade. I have proposed before that SWF be limited by : no character, item, perk or offering repeats. That would be a very soft nerf to SWF that would prevent bullying and allow you to play with your friends.
High level play usually follows along the lines of downing one person and then 2-3 generators get done. Survivors don't attempt to rescue that survivor until that survivor is almost on stage two most of the time. This happens because they stayed on the generator an extra 15-20 seconds. The killer in turn needs to stay by the hook to force stage two on that survivor to punish "gens before friends". If possible they need to prevent the rescue until stage two and then allow it so they can tunnel that person out of the game.
Mathematically 3/5ths of an objective is more than 1/4th of an objective. Survivors push the game to this state and then wonder why the killer wants to tunnel. This also leads killers to say well : if people are going to play like that then I need to play Blight/Nurse every game.
The killer gets nothing for two hooks one one person and one hook on another person. That means the killer should always hook one person three times and ignore everyone else. The game rules need to change to make the killer have an alternative choice that is appealing as -25% generator reduction speed for hooking three different survivors one time.
They just have to be 20% more efficient on generators to make the game just incredibly stupid for killer. Merely calling out the killer's location a few times and the perks they are using along with coordinating saves/gens makes you 20-40% more efficient at the game. That isn't fair
The game needs to be balanced around efficiency. There is too much of disparity between soloq time efficiency and SWF. I think if they just give soloq free global base-kit bond, soloq will be able to call the killer's location through deduction(you will see your teammate drop a pallet, which tells you who the killer is chasing and where he is approximately, no wallhacks of course, just approximate position). It will also help with healing efficiency as it will be easier to locate teammate for them to heal you and going for hook-saves will be more time efficient. You will also be able to deduce the generator's progression by estimating how long your teammate is on the generator making it easier to do generator's. soloq should be 20-40% more efficient at the game so that it is easier to balance killers.
The killer gets nothing for two hooks one one person and one hook on another person. That means the killer should always hook one person three times and ignore everyone else. The game rules need to change to make the killer have an alternative choice that is appealing as -25% generator reduction speed for hooking three different survivors one time.
I mean perks like this exist. Scourge hook: Gift of pain and Dying light grant 16% generator repair speed reduction and 3% repair reduction putting a survivor on a hook. Its just that these perks suck. too much drawbacks+why would I want to run perks to "not tunnel". Its easier to just tunnel and not run the perks in the first place.
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@InvadeGames said:
perhaps i am alone in this, but i find marking survs to be pointless and a waste of time to your detriment. And it could be that im just not good at it, but GF is probably my second best killer after wraith and have used him quite a bit.
I find that its incredibly rare to be able to sneak up on a surv and do the full marking without them noticing to get it to go off. When it does happen its nice, but unless your going against noobies, survs know to be aware and look around especially after its revealed its a gf killer. On top of that, his stealth is partly countered by his loud cloaking noise meaning its probably unlikely you'll get a very close up marking before the survs sees or hears you and moves off. To mark you have to either be still or moving at 1 mph for a hefty while when In that time that you just lost and accomplished nothing you could have used NS to go pull them off the gen or get a hit in and be right in chase where they only have 1 hit down to go anyways.
NS(plus crouch ability) is IMO is a satisfactory power that allows you to use him to dangerous effect but marking does not seem to be useful enough to justify using and or is very risky to use as far as time goes.
I do not attempt to use marking at all(granted this makes all his addons pointless) and am able to play effectively and win my games.
Do any other GF players feel the same or do you feel that marking is worth the risk/time to do so?
ghostface needs more buffs. he will not get any though. The mark is pretty underwhelming even if you know how to use it.
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I dislike new forum look. The major change is that all topic have hidden viewer post count. you can no longer see how many people responded to a topic/viewed. The forum looks more like an ordered checklist, less of place to converse on topics. It has that hostile feel. The forum are less welcoming then before.
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currently, undetectable killer are being revealed by wall-hack perks such as Kindred, Wiretap, Fogwise and Alert. Seeing Dredge in Nightfall looked so weird. Please fix bugs.
Side-comment: New forums looks ugly. Old one was better.
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@squbax said:
With the knight I get it, yes he does buff survivors, but how is dredge survivor friendly, being a bad killer isn't directly being frendly, like I am actually curious how is he survivor friendly.
Get to loop
Put remnant at loop
Survivor leaves loop.
Rinse and repeat until the survivor is either zoned, cornered or runs into remnant for teleport m1->hit
he is cooking cutter zoning just like knight. He is just little better in the sense that he has unreliable locker mobility and better tracking in nightfall(killer instinct). Also stealth but his ambulance/sound effects, the undetectable might as well not exist. OP complaining about zoning based killers.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289888#Comment_3289888
Well, I'd argue that the 12 hook thing is a strange hang up people have too. There are a lot of ways to count to 12, and the worst possible way to do it in DbD is to try and go 1-2-1-2-1-2-1-2-3-3-3-3. There's a midway point on the dial between hard tunneling at 5 gens and applying zero pressure at all.
its because its more fun for killer to down multiple survivors then it is to hard-tunnel. I like being able spread hooks organically and win by accident from strong consecutive chases. More chases is more fun. Unfortunately, the game does not reward spreading hooks. it rewards hard-tunneling survivors because going for chases = wasting the killer time = losing gens. Otz has video about it. Its description of tru3's tunnel strategy which is something along lines of chase 1-2 survivors to find weak link, tunnel weak links of the team, then finish tunnelling 2nd survivor into 3rd survivor as 1 hook. Eruption helps for going for more chases but is not enough.
Eruption is not killing the game. Hard-tunneling and balancing killer powers for -weak- survivor players is. Its not allowing killer to be skill expressive with their power leading to low-killer variety and low gameplay variance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5SGCEBhYqc&t=667s -
@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289599#Comment_3289599
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/ZO13D9TSED1I/image.png
that's not true. You're confusing the graph from across all MMRs with this one. And even there she doesn't have the highest killrate. Pinhead does.
all killers in graph have equal kill-rate with no order. This was specifically said when they posted the stats. I do not remember if it was peanut or mandy. I just remember reading it.
Sadako does indeed have highest #1 kill-rate, but pinhead and Wesker share same kill-rate for all mmr. At top 5% MMR, According to the stats, she is #4-9(?) top killer at top 5% MMR despite having a dysfunctional base kit balance. According to these stats, Nurse and Sadako are equally powerful killers.
This is why kill-rate not that good indicators for killer performance. The fun-factor and overall killer gameplay loop are more important than kill-rate.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3289891#Comment_3289891
IMO they should make his Patrol a lot stronger and nerf his Anti-Loop. But I know that most Killers would like him to be a Anti-Loop King and probably gain 230% Movement Speed when a Survivor presses the "Shift"-Button...
well I suggested that they buff patrols by inventing new mechanic called empowered summoning. Empowered summoning boosts guard m/s, reduces summoning time and time needed innate chase if the knight places green whisp within 2-3 meters around the survivor when pressing the patrol button. Killer who are good at using Spirit-phase walk will dominate with the knight as he would be a ranged spirit if he places his guard correctly. In exchange, when a guard chase is started, the knight suffers a 10% hindered effect during the chase(He moves at 105%). He would still be anti-loop but there would be more counter-play for the survivor to loop 2 killers in the corner of the map.
Overall goal of the change would be to punish the knight for missing his patrols but award him for placing his guards on top of the survivor(Punish survivor for mindlessly hold-W).
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@Aven_Fallen said:
It is still very early to make bigger changes to The Knight. This was a quick change that could be done which will also have some impact.
yes very early to make changes on an obvious shift-w problem pointed out in the ptb. shrug.
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@[Deleted User] said:
I vote for the removal of Incapacitated entirely. Scrap it. It's not a fun mechanic. It's frustrating, annoying, etc.
It's still a fine perk at 10% regression per gen with unlimited range. 10%+Incapacitated+all the other slowdowns is insane. A good player doesn't need that much slowdown to win. It's ok if players lose to better players.
10%+incapacitated is not enough slowdown to go for 12 hooks with low tier m1 killers, then again the problem is weak killers and not the perk.
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@Blueberry said:
Ruin, Pop, Thanata meta was way better than what we have now. Those at least all required you split pressure (more fun for survivors) and actually be skilled enough to get downs.
This is why we want perks that incentivize killers to split pressure and reward them for playing well to be the meta.
i miss original thano, it was fun injuring survivor across the map and splitting pressure. the challenge in keeping all 4 survivors injured was more interesting for me.
Pop+Pain res still exists. Its just renamed to eruption+pain res.
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@TeabaggingGhostface said:
Your overcharge rework does literally nothing, no hard skillcheck only the base regression speed
overcharge and call of brine are unhealthy perks because they have no limit to gen regression, no requirement to progress(down/hook) to progress the game and have an easy to trigger requirement for a strong effect in a specific environment. Hens video summarizes the problems as well. I agree with his analysis. I understood this problem would occur immediately after seeing the 6.1.0 perk update. I agree with hens video that the next 6.1 type patch will need address these two unhealthy generator regression perks. I knew about problem but I was hoping that nobody would abuse it, but its dbd. everything gets abused.
New overcharge prevents survivors from gen-tapping generators in 0.01 seconds and saves the killer kicking time if a generator is gen-tap between chase.
This is just my opinion on the problem. Gen-kicking being unrewarding in normal gameplay without perks. Gen-kicking being overly rewarding in 3 gen gameplay and my take on fixing the perks to be useful in normal gameplay but not abusing in hostage 3 gen situations.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288630#Comment_3288630
I'm not saying its op or anything my guy.
you make it sound like trapper's traps in the grass are op s-tier ability.
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@Blueberry said:
Infection needs to actually mean something.
Extra zombies aren't going to happen, they've already stated this. The best alternative route is trying to make those 2 we have, much better.
Firstly just at base kit, zombies need to move faster, have a larger detection radius and field of view. They also need to improve their AI detection. I shouldn't be able to work on a gen with the zombie on the opposite side and he have no idea, just silly.
- Per infected survivor zombies move 25% faster, gain increased field of view and detection radius
- Tentacle hits for infection shouldn't give a speed boost to the survivor
- Crouching shouldn't prevent getting hit by the tentacle. This is just stupid and shouldn't never existed in the first place.
- Cases should take longer to open and vaccines take longer to use
also improve this add-on please:
Survivors in general should not gain positive effects from killer powers. tanking hits with infection is silly. The infection should be positive advantage for the killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3288401#Comment_3288401
No it's not lmao.
Freddy isn't strong. What's the counter to pallet Freddy? Hope you don't pick the wrong pallet. That's dumb and boring.
There's zero expression of skill for either side.
staying awake? hello?