Blueberry
Blueberry
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@tehshadowman33 said:
That works too. You could for simplicity's sake just make it so that if the Killer's running the Remember Me perk, if there's one survivor left, then that survivor automatically becomes the obsession. Therefore, they by being the obsession become immune to Remember Me.
That works as well
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@WickedMilk03 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/535067#Comment_535067
Well the camera angle shouldnt be a problem. If I see him, I see him.
Then we're back to PTB version of Ghostface being trash.
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@tehshadowman33 said:
I agree. Remember Me is horrible as a perk now.
Those 16 seconds might make the difference between winning against a survivor in the EGC going for a gate when each gate aren't close together, but it doesn't really matter because you usually win gate standoffs as a killer anyways. Taking the Whispers perk is actually better in that regard as it also provides benefits during the early game and sometimes the midgame.
Nerfing the time to 16 seconds during situations that are not EGC just makes the Remember Me perk nearly useless.
16 extra seconds + 20 seconds of gate time = 165.6m distance at the standard killer speed
30 extra seconds + 20 seconds of gate time = 230m distance at the standard killer speed
With the pre-nerf Remember Me, you actually had a slight chance at downing and slugging someone in a chase and getting to the gate in time before it opened.
The post-nerf Remember Me doesn't grant Killers nearly enough extra time to start and end a chase before heading to and reaching the gate before it opens.
Keep in mind, maps like Mother's Dwelling have as much as 188m of distance between each corner of the map (not that gates spawn in the corners of a map, but you get my drift).
Yeah I agree.
They need to increase its numbers drastically, make it inactive if only 1 survivor remains and finally make it so gates are kickable. Then we might have something.
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@MegMain98 said:
@Blueberry The last few killers have at least had SOME redeeming perks.
Plague had Infectious Fright and Corrupt Intervention, while not meta they are still useful for killers slugging builds or Hag and Trapper.
Legion gave us Discordance which can be extremely useful for killers with high map control
Spirit gave us a meta perk with Spirit Fury. Haunted Ground also has it’s use and Rancor isn’t bad.
Clown had meh perks but all of them have some use.
Pig gave us Make Your Choice and Surveillance which are honestly two great perks.
I can go on and on but some of the more recent killers have had good perks but besides Spirit Fury, they aren’t making waves in the meta of BBQ, Ruin, and Nurses Calling unless you’re running a specific build.
It can definitely be frustrating to have meme perks like Dark Devotion and Iron Maiden clog up the bloodweb. I do think killers have had better overall perks recently than survivor though.
Infectious Fright and Corrupt Intervention are noob traps. They are both bad and not worth a perk slot. Corrupted intervention is only good on setup killer like Trapper or Hag, that's the only exception.
The others you mention have had some decent use, but I'd call that like a 10% rate of getting decent perks.
"I do think killers have had better overall perks recently than survivor though."
Killers have had better ones overall lately, but that's because overall survivor perks are just way better in general than killer ones.
It's more frustrating that there are so many perks they've released that COULD be great, they just don't make their numbers good enough. So many of them could see viability with the tiniest of tweaks.
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@weirdkid5 said:
Yeah I don't agree with the infinite stalk thing.
A good Survivor can keep Myers off of him for his entire EW3 duration, and that amount of time is LESS than what Ghostface gets.
Infinite one shot sounds intensely frustrating to deal with, mostly because even if you take him out of his Night Shroud, he will get it back before his oneshot runs out.
You know I'm normally in favor of Killers, but allowing GF to have an INFINITE option with 0 kind of addons is pretty dumb.
I would like to see this made a pink addon for him though.
I don't really see a reason to change his marked refreshing.
It gets completely countered by loops. Even with semi "infinite" refreshing would you really be going down faster than say a Spirit? I don't think so. If it wouldn't be downing people faster than Spirit it seems fine.
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It does need the nerf reverted, but even then it's still pretty weak. It could still use an increase on its numbers even after the nerf revert.
That's how bad it is right now.
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@Plu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/535002#Comment_535002
He needs to be able to "infinite" stalk if he wants to stand a chance in high ranks with how abysmal map design is and how many pallets there is at times, without that, he waste his time stalking and can never capitalize on it, if they "fix" that, he will drop in viability.
The sad part is he isn't even rank 1 viable in his current state, before the nerfs happen. I agree he needs those things though.
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He gets knocked out very easily. Most survivors just haven't figured out the correct camera angle yet.
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@AshleyWB said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/535005#Comment_535005
Which is exactly why I said the gens are the main objective to stop. Your disagreement just shows how you underestimate monitoring gens.
No one is underestimating monitoring gens, you just overestimate how much easier that is said than done on a base M1 killer in red ranks.
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@AshleyWB said:
A lot of the GhostFaces I've faced completely tunnel 1 survivor and drop chase when they get away. The gens are the objective stop them. So many killers neglect gens and complain that they're done so quickly. Not that the op is one of those.
This is like telling people who complain about camping, "just don't get caught".
Just keeping up pressure is a lot easier said than done on a base M1 killer without high mobility.
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@Catbucket said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/534305#Comment_534305
the only nerf, is the nerf to his addons. And thats necesary, because with the right addons, you can actually make it possible to fully stalk in under the time that it takes to counter. Aside from that, he got other addons BUFFED pretty considerably, and the other changes are all bugfixes and QOL stuff.
"the other changes are all bugfixes and QOL stuff."
The other changes are not bugfixes and QoL stuff. His base kit is getting quite a nerf.
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He's smashing a lot of potatoes right now but against good high ranks he just gets looped and gen rushed into oblivion.
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@McCree said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/69966/am-i-the-only-one-who-can-break-gf-out-easily
Not only is it easy but once it starts in many places it can't even be stopped even if he hides behind stuff... like what the heck
This has been really annoying. It will warn you, then you take cover and it keeps going down when no one is clearly around.
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Yeah it seems extremely easy to me.
If anything I think breaking GF out when he's peaking should be harder than it currently is.
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That's why it's a lot better when they release a full "Chapter" with survivor and map as well since it evens the que out. When it's only a killer we get this issue for a while.
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Just Billy, Spirit and Hag. None of the other killer can reliably apply pressure which is part of why the rest aren't viable.
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It wouldn't be a big deal if the perks they kept adding were at least decent. We just keep getting more garbage perks to be thrown into the pile of never to be seen again.
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The problem is that Remember Me is complete trash right now even at full stacks, which makes that interaction pretty unimportant.
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It's just because this new "chapter" is only a killer making the que's longer.
It normally isn't this long. The wait while die down after people get bored of him.
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2 perks just to know for sure who made the save? That isn't worth at all
Interesting find though
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He's pretty weak
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@TonToE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533933#Comment_533933
Do you have any confirmation of this? I feel like that is probable, but I can't find anything confirming it.
Yes, Peanits confirmed it in another thread.
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Basically what others have said:
If your power doesn't counter loops and give some amount of map pressure/mobility then you aren't viable.
Gens are too fast and loops are too strong. That's the world we live in.
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They will stick around and still be usable
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533245#Comment_533245
Well that will most likely be fixed with the map reworks. I'm guessing maybe those are the reason he is even getting nerfed, but in that case I would wish they'd nerf hiin the same patch in which we get those map reworks.
Well unfortunately that's 2 maps getting reworked A YEAR. At that rate the problem is essentially never getting fixed.
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@Leatherbilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533274#Comment_533274
That's what I was trying to articulate here; I really don't want to design killers around the bad map design, gen rushing and flawed emblem system, because then if they're ever fixed we'll have to change them again.
Rather, I think the criticism should be applied to the source of the problem itself; the Killer's objective takes too long due to map design and gen times relative to the survivor's objective, and the emblem system compounds the issue. If those were fixed we wouldn't need to touch the mid tier killers, GF included, at all.
"That's what I was trying to articulate here; I really don't want to design killers around the bad map design, gen rushing and flawed emblem system, because then if they're ever fixed we'll have to change them again."
I agree, I just don't think they actually want the maps changed in the way we are referring to. Even if they do, to actually fix all the maps now would take them a very, very, very long time at the rate they're going.
I think map reworks/changes should be much, much higher on their priority list than it currently seems to be. It''s one of the biggest, if not THE biggest issue in the game.
If the maps were actually changed properly we would see almost a 180 in the tier list of meta killers without actually having touched the killers themselves. This is because we'd be changing the criteria of what makes a killer strong essentially.
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@Leatherbilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/533245#Comment_533245
He will indeed. That's what I mean, killers like Myers, Ghostface and Huntress should be viable, but they aren't because of map design and the Emblem system.
I agree that map design is the biggest hindrance that is hurting their viability.
They need to make them good enough to compensate and function in a world where the maps don't support their play styles since they won't be able to fix the maps in time, if they even intend to fix them properly anyway.
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He can be a little difficult to break out mid chase, but that's the real only viability he has going for him as that at least gives him some better mind games at pallets.
Not only does he not needs the nerfs coming, but I think he needs to be more difficult to break out when he's peaking. It's still a little too easy when he does.
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Not only does he not need those nerfs coming but I think he still needs buffs, the dude is pretty bad. Against any competent red ranks you are getting looped to oblivion.
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@Leatherbilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532747#Comment_532747
You need mobility and the ability to shorten chases. This is literally saying "you need to have both of the two most important things in a Killer's kit; you can skimp on tracking, but you need EVERYTHING else."
It's kind of the case with Billy. He doesn't exactly counter loops but he is just top tier in almost all other aspects to make up for it.
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I'm only getting like 1 every few blood webs.
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If they actually upped the quality of the skin that comes with Chapters when you purchase with money a lot less people would use shards.
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Agree with the first part.
"He definitely seems like he'll be B tier once people figure out how to adapt to him, which is fine, honestly."
This I don't though. It is not fine to have another killer that can't be played against good high ranks.
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@Leatherbilly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532692#Comment_532692
It is what many of us have said, but I see a lot of people complaining that Ghost Face won't be viable; they're right, but not because of the changes BHVR made. It's because to be viable right now you need an absurdly powerful ability with limited counterplay, which isn't particularly healthy design, and it's certainly not the toolset that the Ghost Face has.
Nor should it be, which is why the complaints perplex me. He's not in a particularly bad position, it's just that the Killer role as a whole is.
"It's because to be viable right now you need an absurdly powerful ability with limited counterplay, which isn't particularly healthy design, and it's certainly not the toolset that the Ghost Face has."
This isn't accurate. What you need to be viable is either high mobility, a power that counters loops, or a combination of the two. That does not mean a killer with limited counter play.
Example being Spirit. Rank one viable while also have a high skill cap and lots of counters in the form of play style and perks.
Killers wouldn't require these things to be viable if loops weren't as broken as they are. However the devs aren't fixing these or at least at a speed that will have it solved even with a years time. Since that is the case, this is the world we are left in with determining what makes a killer strong.
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"The complaints we should be making are that mid tier killers aren't viable, not that killers aren't designed to be top tier."
This has never been the complaint the player base has had. This is the complaint the devs think we are saying and it continues to be perpetuated.
"The complaints we should be making are that mid tier killers aren't viable"
This IS what we have been saying for over 2 years.
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@Someissues said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/532581#Comment_532581
Can you guys please wait for the statistics to come in with Kill rate and such after a week, when people figured out how to play against him
Look at the Statistic first, don't just jump on the gun immediately, unless you guys want immediately negative reviews on the DLC
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/613/LKGXIW6RIKN6.png
Wait and see how he goes first please? If he ends up being B/ C tier after Patch when he was A / B now many ppl will resent the Devs
Their statistics are worthless for a multitude of reasons that they even have said themselves on these forums. They especially shouldn't be used at all for determining balance.
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@Carpemortum said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527968#Comment_527968
Also pings everyone and shows the obsessions aura so you can track/ignore them until late game thus making it useful as you dont waste time on a free one down.
Making it generally just a worse Bitter Murmur.
You're trading better tracking for a feel good mori at the end that doesn't actually help you win. That's also assuming they aren't smart and don't avoid you at end game because by that point they know you are running Rancor anyway.
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@Redd said:
They already did this in the past. It's name is "Rancor".
That's IF you find them at end game and even if you do, killing them then doesn't matter, you already lost. The entire point is to counter all the tempo loss of a DS mid game to improve your chances at winning still.
All Rancor does is give you a "feel good" mori on the obsession, it isn't generally helping you win. It's a pitty reward.
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@The_Daydreamer said:
I kinda find it funny, that it is totally okay for killers to use the same build just to counter loops and gens. They don't have much that they can choose for an individual playstyle. But if a survivor should run a just one perk to counter things then the argument is totally invalid.
I personaly don't enjoy playing against the spirit, because I feel like she has 1 "counter play", but I still would not say that she is OP or broken. You still can waste enough time. You need to understand what add-on she is using, be aware of when she is using her power and play mindgames. But that all is more a luck thing imo.
"I kinda find it funny, that it is totally okay for killers to use the same build just to counter loops and gens. They don't have much that they can choose for an individual playstyle. But if a survivor should run a just one perk to counter things then the argument is totally invalid."
I was finding this same irony quite funny as well.
Killers have been "required" to run many perks for quite a long time and that's fine, but as soon as survivors may need 1 perk it's not fair lol.
Not to mentioned the killer perks aren't even hard counters, they just lesson how painful it is and still don't fully handle anything.
Those Spirit countering perks are actually hard counters completely.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/527933#Comment_527933
It got changed in the PTB
That's quite a niche situation lol. If he's going for adept Ghostface then he's also running trash perks so it should be an easy game for you anyway.
"Why they keep adding these aura reading perks? :("
This is a pretty bad aura reading perk with long the cooldown on it. If he actually runs this he's wasting a perk slot where he could have been running a much stronger perk that you don't have to deal with now.
If it was a more reasonable cooldown like 20 seconds matching QnQ, then we'd have something. However with its current cooldown it's just bad.
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It's still a bad enough perk that almost no one would be running it any way. I doubt you have to worry.
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@MegMain98 said:
She is one of the most balanced killers in the game. She is strong af but she has weakness.
• She is slow as hell
• You can hear her coming from a MILE away with her power
• Her power has a recharge
• Iron Will, Lightweight, Dance With Me, Spine Chill, and Premonition are all great counters
How good she is relies on how well she can follow sounds and mindgame survivors, if you stay at a pallet loop with Spirit and get downed then that is totally your fault.
The ONLY thing I’d ever nerf on her is Prayer Beads. That add-on is busted. A good Spirit does not need Prayer Beads to ensure kills.
You have all the counters laid out in front of your face. If you don’t use them and still complain about wanting to nerf Spirit then you’re just bad. Sorry not sorry.
I’m pretty sure my fellow Spirit players @Poweas @Blueberry and @NuclearBurrito agree with the fact that she is extremely balanced and is in a good place. She is one of the few killers who don’t need any TLC. We should be focusing on poor Leatherface.
I do agree she is one of the most balanced killers in the game.
I've been following the discussion but I didn't see a point in posting. The counters have already been laid out many, many times and the people that still think she doesn't have counters are going to disagree no matter what I say so I didn't see a point.
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Spirit is one of the most balanced killers in the game. Not only does she not need to be touched, we need other killers brought up to her level.
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Most likely not as any killer or survivor that required them to pay for the license has been real money in the past.
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@Blizer said:
She Def needs changes, cause the only way she can force people to cleanse is using Thantophobia, even then, i still dont see them cleansing it.
They could add a Thantophobia effect onto her puke (Idk if it should stack with Thantophobia itself, depends on how busted it could be).
Or, they could remove the movement speed penalty on her puke channel.
Yeah even with full effect Thanata running most of them still don't cleanse and the gens still get destroyed. So i'm not sure if a base Thanata effect that doesn't stack would even help as they'd still just ignore and it you just get an extra perk slot available. That extra perk slot no matter what you pick wouldn't make her any more viable.
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@pemberley said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/523742#Comment_523742
I like both of these ideas. I really do think her puke needs effects and/or perks baked into it. Removing the multiple movement speed penalties would be really nice, but another nice change would be removing the hitch she has sometimes when puking. That really doesn’t feel good.
That little delay she has after is quite annoying, but I assume it was intentional for counter play.
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@White_Owl said:
I think the Plague suffers from a similar problem to the Trapper's, which is the fountain/trap spawn. Often they are in remote corners of the map and sometimes they are all grouped up leaving an area of the map empty. This makes the use of fountains a huge time investment for the killer, sometimes even a hindrance, and can lead to corrupt purges waste.
I also think that fountains shouldn't heal but only remove sickness and the broken status, because currently it's frustrating when you spend time injuring survivors but a few seconds later they're all healed. Sure you have fountains, but they are unreliable because of the spawn problem, and this imo removes a lot the pressure the killer can give since they can't force survivor to waste time healing (thus forcing them away from gens).
That first point is a very important one that most people don't mention. The cost she has to actually go out of her way to pick up the fountain is actually quite high and wastes a lot of time that she already doesn't have.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525930#Comment_525930
@Blueberry probably not? They are compatible changes that don't interact with each other. So if it were up to me I would pick one, try it out and then have the other be on standby if we need it.
For example if we add the MS addon and she starts 4king at red ranks like it's nobodies business then we don't need any gen speed decrease. But if she's struggling then having both is an option.
Plus there are a lot of numbers involved here, and thus a lot of smaller changes that could be made for tweaking.
That sounds like a good plan to me. Would be nice if they'd put it on a PTB for testing.
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@Victory said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525076#Comment_525076
Yes, you have to use a perkslot for a certain killer, thats how dbd works. And if they dont stay injured all game you get GOD MODE puke, lmao.
"Yes, you have to use a perkslot for a certain killer, thats how dbd works"
I never said otherwise.
"And if they dont stay injured all game you get GOD MODE puke, lmao."
If only it worked out that way.