Blueberry
Blueberry
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@Paladin_Goo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525917#Comment_525917
The only one's still using SWF as an excuse are the ones who can't adapt. Jesus, even ANGRYPUG shits all over SWFs. Stop acting like every SWF is this coordinated god tier team. 90% of them are just shootin' the ######### with their friends. Your entire narrative is exaggerated. Yes, there are god tier SWF teams. They ######### all over killers. There's also god tier killers shitting all over ANY and EVERY team.
How about once you're sick, eventually, you're forced to cleanse. Like, if you don't cleanse within say..60 seconds, you go into dying state?
"The only one's still using SWF as an excuse are the ones who can't adapt."
If you played killer at high rank you wouldn't think this.
"Jesus, even ANGRYPUG shits all over SWFs."
The only killer he plays is basement bubba and it's not at high ranks. He's a great player but the majority of all his games are survivor, not killer.
"90% of them are just shootin' the ######### with their friends."
If you play at low ranks, yes.
"There's also god tier killers shitting all over ANY and EVERY team."
Only if they are nurse.
"How about once you're sick, eventually, you're forced to cleanse. Like, if you don't cleanse within say..60 seconds, you go into dying state?"
That sounds too extreme to me. It would be rough on low ranks.
You are also derailing the thread topic talking about SWF.
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@miaasma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525917#Comment_525917
is this reddit
did i take a wrong turn
You veered into reddit when you thought prayer beads were op.
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/526008#Comment_526008
This is proof the devs don't really think about their balance fully
I start to wonder if they should implement some kind of tier system for perks. So like you can only have one tier 1 perk, one tier 2 perk etc. Something like that where you can't just stack all the second chance perks basically and having something like that would give a little more variety in builds since you wouldn't just be able to pick all the best perks.
It would also allow them to go crazy with new second chance or really strong perks since then you wouldn't be able to stack them anyway and just different ones would fit into different builds.
Just an idea.
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It is pretty hilarious when I get saved off a hook for my Adrenaline to instantly full heal me, have a BT active on me, AND my DS ready...lol
Dude has to hit me FIVE times to stop me from getting away out the exit gates lmao.
That's busted.
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@skillchecks said:
Well, Mclean explained better :
https://clips.twitch.tv/MotionlessBigPheasantANELE
So, goodbye to the cheecky vaults on groaning storehouse, rancid, and suffocation pit .
Adapt, improvise, and overcome .
The video isn't working
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"but at the end of the day he still is a 115% movement speed loopable killer."
This is the key take away here. Whether they go down in 1 shot or 2 it still isn't gonna make you high rank viable if you don't counter pallets or have high mobility. Until they finally fix all the issues with map design that's just the hand we're dealt.
Your idea is interesting but it kinda just makes him more like Myers when he already is almost Myers, so I'd rather something different. I don't know how we'd give him either of the things that make viable killers viable because of his design.
Best we could do is make him really good at what he does to have a chance at compensating.
Raise his view point while crouching (should be able to see over grass). Refund 10 seconds on his power every time a survivor is marked but doesn't get hit before the timer runs out. Get rid of the ruffle/wind sound he makes within 8m. He's supposed to be a stealth killler, he doesn't need the extra sound. This also gives him a better chance at using it at loops for mind games.
Just my opinion.
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525920#Comment_525920
@Blueberry MS increase.
Actually, a more interesting mechanic would be that survivors get hindered after interacting with infected objects, with the slow time scaling with your sickness (max 3 second slow maybe?) the % would probably be 10 or 15%.
The only other thing we would do would make it have to be infected at the START of the action, that way plague is rewarded for the alternative uses of her power besides hitting Survivors directly (infect the pallet and window, loop the survivor, win)
Now this idea I like!
Some incentive to infect the objects at a loop first when they run to it and it actually gives her some anti-loop to her power. Great idea!
Now would this be along with the hypothetical gen repair speed slow if they chose to stay fully infected/broken or instead of?
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I hope not, he still isn't even that strong. He still needs buffs imo
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@Arroz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525011#Comment_525011
I only agree with the speed debuff.
But why should the killer get rewarded by getting FREE corrupted fountains?
I know plague needs some small buff, but this isn't the way to go
Well hypothetically let's say she got a 15% repair debuff while fully infected/broken. Do you think she would then be rank 1 viable? I would say no.
What else would you give her instead?
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@miaasma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525011#Comment_525011
sounds about as fair as prayer beads
Sounds about as fair as SWF.
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Stealth detection and aura reading perks have nothing to do with why stealth killers aren't viable as hardly anyone runs them anyway. The thing ruining stealth killers is as you mentioned, map design. There are very few maps that they actually work on as too many maps have huge open space to see the killer coming easily.
It's secondly map design because most stealth killers have no map mobility or loop counters. You can be as stealthy as you want it isn't going to make them viable. There are too many loops always within reach. If a stealth killer can't reliably get a hit out of stealth, there stealth isn't good enough.
Along with maps getting fixed to better suit them, most all the stealth killers need large improvements to make their stealth more viable.
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@brokedownpalace said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525078#Comment_525078
What's your point? This bug only happens in certain scenarios so don't fix it?
My point is that it isn't a bug, the devs know about it and it was intended.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/525078#Comment_525078
Knowing this doesn't change the bug lol. The killer picks you up and your DS can't be used. No rocketscience. In case you tried to justify this.
I'm not justifying a bug because it isn't a bug. The hook animation just takes precedence. There was also already a discussion made about this as well where Peanits said that it is a very small intended counter play.
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This is an extremely niche scenario.
If when he is standing right in front of the hook, the time for the person that saved you to move and him to pick you up is enough time to crawl just enough to get it off in time for it to work. This is also assuming he just completely ignored the unhooker and didn't even hit them at all which is also very rare.
I've only ever had this happen to me once and that was before I ever knew it could happen so I didn't try to leave the hook. Now that I know better this has never happened since and I always run DS.
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@Entità said:
@Blueberry Are you suggesting 15% debuff basekit + 16% debuff for Tanatophobia?
@DudeDelicious In fact I don't think the Plague is weak: just be smart, run that perk and you'll have the power in your own hands.
"16% debuff for Tanatophobia?"
This shouldn't even be in the equation. This is a perk slot and assuming ALL of them stay injured all game.
"Are you suggesting 15% debuff basekit"
This is what I am suggesting, but ONLY for repair speed, not 15% to all actions like Thanata.
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15% repair speed debuff while fully infected/broken and 1 random fountain will become corrupted every minute.
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@moonlunn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/518210#Comment_518210
And what exactly is the counter to it? Lmao
"If you scroll up it has already been said multiple times by multiple people."
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@IMAFEEISH said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/518220#Comment_518220
Name one that is consistant? Please I would love to know. It makes the unfun guessing game that is spirit even more unfun and BS.
"If you scroll up it has already been said multiple times by multiple people."
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He's way, way better than he was previously.
Unfortunately he's still quite weak though and just another mid tier killer that we'll never see in red ranks.
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That wouldn't follow the formal definition but you do you.
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@Paladin_Goo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/524025#Comment_524025
I mean, many killer mains hitting someone on the hook say it's not toxic...but that's a taunt if I ever seen one.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/524110#Comment_524110
Are you saying cheating isn't toxic?
To me cheating is not toxic. They are 2 different things.
Also because toxic is highly subjective by definition.
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@LordGlint said:
@Blueberry I feel like thats more a case afew days AFTER reset, if you havent been able to play to get your rank up yet. Otherwise your just facing the same people you were before since their rank also got reset. Alot of times, I cant really play til the weekend, so if rank reset happens on a Tuesday... the ranks have had time to kinda stabilize by the time I get on.
I don't feel it even needs that wait time as you'll get a mix of those high ranks and low rank which is a lot better than a full group of high ranks.
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I actually look forward to reset. I get to play killers that aren't viable and have fun.
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@HazeHound said:
No killer is viable at except Nurse then. But its thread about Plague, not killers beeing to weak in general. Right?
"No killer is viable at except Nurse then"
Nurse has the best chance, but there are still a couple others that at least have a chance.
"But its thread about Plague, not killers beeing to weak in general. Right?"
Correct.
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@HazeHound said:
@Blueberry Trapper not viable at r1. I'm going to stop you right there.
TheEntityLeftHand
Go, praise and then come back.
You can stop me if you'd like but I disagree with you and so does most of the red rank community.
I play plenty of rank 1 games with unviable killers and 4k. That doesn't mean they are viable, it means you still run into bad survivors even at rank 1. That is a very big difference.
I can show you plenty of games 4king at rank 1 with Freddy. Does that make Freddy strong? No. It just means I found bad survivors.
Viable means strong at high ranks against good survivors. Emphasis on the good.
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@HazeHound said:
@Blueberry Well i don't know what you expect from killers tbh. By your logic Billy and Trapper are ######### aswell, yet they do very well against every rank survivors, in the right hands. I think you confuse survivors in general beeing strong with swf comm groups breaking the game even more.
I was consistently r1 on both sides every month untill may (12h shifts, i just don't play more than 10 hours a month now) and my r1 experience is not what you describe. Sure there are games with really sweaty comm 4man groups, but its minority.
Edit: I actually noticed that r1 is way more chill than r4-6 because regular r1s are just people who play a lot, mostly memeing, while 4-6 usually tryhard to get r1 achievement.
"Well i don't know what you expect from killers tbh."
Me, as well as many others have answered this many times throughout this thread.
"By your logic Billy and Trapper are ######### aswell, yet they do very well against every rank survivors, in the right hands."
Trapper is not viable at rank 1 against good survivors and Billy is still in the top tier. Billy is the only exception to this rule because he has everything else in spades to make up for looping. That isn't something 3/4 of the killers can say.
"I think you confuse survivors in general beeing strong with swf comm groups breaking the game even more."
No. While SWF are an issue I am referring to even a full competent red rank solo group.
"I was consistently r1 on both sides every month untill may (12h shifts, i just don't play more than 10 hours a month now) and my r1 experience is not what you describe."
I'm not sure what to tell you then. Most the red rank community agrees with what I've been saying here, so it's odd that you would be the one exception to everyone.
"Sure there are games with really sweaty comm 4man groups, but its minority."
There are, but that's not what I'm referring to here.
"I actually noticed that r1 is way more chill than r4-6 because regular r1s are just people who play a lot, mostly memeing, while 4-6 usually tryhard to get r1 achievement."
You are the only person I've met in red ranks that would agree with that statement.
You can see why I have my reservations about what you are saying.
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@HazeHound said:
@Blueberry Everything you say are general killer related issues, that Plague suffers from by just not beeing a Nurse.
Game was, is, and always will be balanced in favour of survivors, that's ok. But perma broken team is huge advantage if you stay unpredictible. No matter the rank, if survivor has only one chance he will drop pallets way, way faster. If not he will get rekt when killer doesn't respect it. She can't apply pressure, that's why you 3-4 gen with her. Infectious intervention compliment her super well. 115ms is 115ms.
"Everything you say are general killer related issues, that Plague suffers from by just not beeing a Nurse."
Yes, but she suffers even more so because of her large TR and size making her one of the most loopable killers in a game where loops are already broken to begin with.
"But perma broken team is huge advantage if you stay unpredictible."
It's not if you are playing at red ranks.
"No matter the rank, if survivor has only one chance he will drop pallets way, way faster."
This is not accurate.
Intelligent red ranks do not panic drop pallets like that unless they're potatoes.
"She can't apply pressure, that's why you 3-4 gen with her"
It isn't going to work out like that when you are playing in red ranks. Yes this will work at low ranks, but that isn't what we're talking about.
"Infectious intervention compliment her super well."
This is a garbage perk bar like Trapper and Hag
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@Mat_Sella said:
From this thread we can see that stealth perks need some tuning to be more useful. they're not as toxic or powerful as some other perks, so why not buff them?
It's less about stealth perks being too weak or more to do with second chance perks being too strong and maps not being designed to facilitate stealth well.
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/522492#Comment_522492
######### work lol
Yeah it hits us all lol
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@weirdkid5 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521407#Comment_521407
I wish I could do this again.
Alas i have a job that eats up 35 hours a week for me so RIP
Yeah it's not always that high I've just had a few months of free time before I get busy again.
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@HazeHound said:
@Blueberry well, that just don't make any sense. Sure there are balanced landing broken maps, but that aint just Plagues problem. You think staying injured is not dangerous so i assume you respect pallets to much. DH is also one time trick, because once you know its there its really hard to fall for it. Just focus area on map with worse loops and make them 4 gen themselves. Eventually there will be no pallets there. If you found weakest link in team exploit it to hell and back.
It does work on r1, dunno why, but it does.
"Sure there are balanced landing broken maps, but that aint just Plagues problem."
I'm not referring to those.
"You think staying injured is not dangerous so i assume you respect pallets to much"
No, I don't.
"DH is also one time trick, because once you know its there its really hard to fail for it."
I haven't said anything about DH. DH is easily predictable and not an issue I am referring to at all.
"Just focus area on map with worse loops and make them 4 gen themselves."
I don't think you play killer at rank 1. This is like saying "just apply pressure". I know how easy it is because I play survivor at rank 1 as well and she is very loopable and weak.
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@HazeHound said:
I honestly don't understand this Plague rants. If survivors don't cleanse they are all one hit ponies. If they cleanse you have aoe ranged attack. Win-win. In addition survivors can't really hide in tight spots, because she can instadown then. She is not the best but she is pretty good and versitile.
Was she nerfed and i didn't notice?
"Was she nerfed and i didn't notice?"
She was nerfed post PTB
"If survivors don't cleanse they are all one hit ponies."
At red ranks no one cleanses. I'm assuming that because you think staying broken is dangerous that you don't play at red ranks. There are more than enough pallets and windows to get 5 gens done and still have more left.
Staying injured isn't as dangerous as you think it is when you know how to loop.
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@remoirel said:
I don't think she's that bad, but i wouldn't mind a slight reduction on repair speeds if infected.
I understand why people don't cleanse, because its easier to be 1 hit all game than deal with her corrupt purge. Its so strong its better not to give it to her.
@Blueberry i assume you're red ranks, but at green ranks i have yet to go against a full team of people that don't cleanse, and its rare to get more than 1 person that stays broken. Most survivors cleanse against me before they're even in broken state from infection.
That's part of why she's very strong at low ranks when people don't know what they're doing, but so is every killer with no addons or perks for that matter.
The issue is more with her at high ranks.
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@OutbreakJack said:
I wish they would just fix her Devious score. If the circle is filled half way by the end of the match I consider it a win. We went from the old days of killers maxing out devious pretty quickly and they'd nerf the numbers later to barely giving any devious score and sometimes buffing it way down the line.
The problem isn't with her Devious scoring. The problem is that no one cleanses which means she almost never gets to use her power to actually gain much Deviousness.
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@Karl_Childers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521337#Comment_521337
Why would you exclude EGC kills? So for kill rate stats, a 4K that featured a hatch close /entity kill would count as a 3K game?That would blatantly skew the stats. Maybe I’m misunderstanding cause I’m not following at all why this should be the case
You're probably right EGC should be included now that I think about it. Thanks.
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@Toxicity23 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521463#Comment_521463
One thing for sure, I can and agree (infinitely) that Plague needs to be buffed. I dunno how, but one thing for sure, whatever BHVR did to Plague, it needs to be fixed.
However, unfortunately, the developers happen to have tunnel vision and do not know that "Balance Feedback" is not there because it was added for no reason.
Well as you'll see earlier in this discussion a dev stated that their stats show Plague as a "top tier" that 4k's at rank 1 and as such don't feel the need to touch her. However in another thread they also admitted that those same stats are heavily flawed and not a true representation...
So you can see why that is frustrating to most the player base as that is an extreme contradiction.
I don't mean this in a disrespectful or rude way whatsoever, but that means it is only 1 of 2 things:
- Intentional deception
- Incompetence
Unless the things they have said were worded poorly and didn't mean what they said...or there's metrics they are also using that they just refuse to show us...
It's like the stats are only valuable for using when they favor the decision we wanted to make anyway.
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@MasonMyers69 said:
This is what I mean, they're balancing ass killers around data that shouldn't be the case. Balancing their entire killer base on stats, that aren't even accurate. That's not a good idea from any point of view, BHVR, you need to balance around what full time players say. Look at the forums, how many posts say ghostface, plague, clown is ass yet the "data" says otherwise so according to you they're fine. BHVR this needs to stop it's not a healthy way to go about things.
This is interesting because we've been told now that these stats are heavily flawed, yet when the community tells them certain killers are weak they say those same stats (that they admit are heavily flawed) show otherwise...
There is a lot of contradiction going on with this.
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@Toxicity23 said:
There are so many comments on this! Holy crap! I've never seen so bloody many comments on somebodies' post just to ask to have Plague get "love and attention"!
That's how you know a killer needs help when even the survivors agree she's weak and feel bad for her. Especially with the amount of upvotes this page has received, it's quite clear there are issues with Plague that need addressing and the community agrees on it.
She has so much potential in play style that hasen't been facilitated yet.
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@weirdkid5 said:
Agreed. You don't need to completely rework a character to make them viable. Just a few number adjustments can make a huge difference, and can easily be reverted in a hotfix if it is deemed overpowered.
Yeah they don't even need to release full killer changes at a time. Even just throwing a few small buffs here and there to different killers each patch would add up.
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@Nikkiwhat said:
Went against a Vommy Mommy last night, she had to super tunnel AND for a fellow Survivor to do unsafe unhooks WITHOUT Borrowed Time to gain any momentum....I personally ran her long enough to make her give up chasing me TWICE, managed to do almost all the Gens myself, distract her for unhooks and was able to get away without any fear of being downed or Killed....unlike most other Killers that tend to provide some threat...Vommy Mommy just ends up wasting valuable time using a fun Ability that honestly doesn't impact the game too much.
I've played her and can do decently but that's mostly on the Survivor's fault or a decent play of my own and using her strong add-ons for faster Broken Status...which feel mandatory as #########. Doesnt strike me as a good spot for her outside of "fun" games and actually providing good pressure. A good Nurse, Billy, Hag, Myers and even Pig just excel at being a threat...heck Trapper with well placed Traps can snag and deny Survivors a good loop/chase and get some strong momentum...Plague gets that purely through the Survivor's dictating things (and only if it's fully capitalized, denied by looping well or waiting out it's durstion).
That match I mentioned before? I only got hit once by her and that was thru a lucky hitbox on her Corrupted Purge hitting me...which she got from someone cleansing a little too early.
I honestly wouldn't even give her the "fun" metric anymore seeing as no one cleanses, which means you are never getting to use her power. You spend the whole game just being a basic M1 killer with a 1 one shot but being easily loopable because of her massive TR and large size.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521429#Comment_521429
lol even better haha
Correction, I looked back and was mistaken.
It was "Top tier (4k) at rank 1."
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521413#Comment_521413
He really said that Plague is a high tier killer? XD Facepalm
I'd have to look back but I believe it was actually "highest" not just "high".
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I really like this idea and the games health really needs it.
There are even many killer changes that can be done very easily with just number tweaks that wouldn't require a large investment.
Even something simple like removing the roar from Pigs ambush.
Easy and quick changes that would help them a lot.
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@MasonMyers69 said:
So you're essentially balancing killers around data where survivors are disconnecting so it looks like the killer is really good and kills everyone, as janick said plague is a high tier killer (really isn't), going off these stats, you should NOT balance around skewed data but instead what the playerbase suggest, who know the game. @Peanits @Janick
+1
Basically what I'm thinking as well.
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I honestly was so annoyed at Ghostface I didn't even pay much attention to the sounds on PTB.
I hope so though, playing Spirit on live right now is annoying as hell with how terrible the sounds are.
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@Ihatelife said:
Wait, did they lower also chase music from the killer's perspective? I didn't noticed.
Extremely, it's very quiet now.
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80 hours a week or so, maybe more
My steam currently says 189 hours in the past two weeks so I assumed slightly less.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/521350#Comment_521350
There's a huge issues with the first one: That is going to massively skew the stats. People aren't going to disconnect if they doing well, but as we all know, there are many people who will disconnect the instant they go down. If you exclude matches where anybody disconnects, you're excluding matches where someone does poorly and rage quits and only focusing on ones where the survivors do well.
We can only do so much when providing stats, and any time you exclude things the stats get more skewed. This is why we give general stats rather than picking and choosing what to include. This is why we recommend not drawing any conclusions based on stats alone.
The other two we could possibly look into if we release stats again, though.
"If you exclude matches where anybody disconnects, you're excluding matches where someone does poorly and rage quits and only focusing on ones where the survivors do well."
That is a very good point to bring up and makes sense. Thank you for clarifying that.
However, if that is the case, then these stats are meaningless and should not be used for determining balance, but they are. Why?
"The other two we could possibly look into if we release stats again, though."
I appreciate you looking into adding those, thank you.
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@se05239 said:
Giving us the specific stats we want would probably show us that we're right and throw Behavior in a bad light.
That's a no-no. Hence all of these half-arsed statistics.
Exactly.