Blueberry
Blueberry
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Yeah there are many, many things that their stats do not take into account making them near meaningless, much less actually being used for determining balance (which they do).
Show kill rates (not individual survivor rates) at each rank excluding any games with DC's or someone killing themselves on hook.
Also, how many kills are added to each game because the gates were opened and the survivors decided to just troll (which happens a lot) or the killer just camped the last guy on hook because there was no reason to leave. I'm not blaming the killer for camping in that scenario, but it certainly is not an indicator of "balance".
These stats should not be used for balance as they are just flawed from so many angles. The fact that they are using them to determine balance explains why 3/4 the killers are just not viable.
I want to assume they are not releasing faulty stats to intentionally mislead players about the games actual balance, but that is indeed what the effect becomes.
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Wraith actually got the really good one
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Honestly they both look terrible to me.
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I think Lightweight should also reduce the sound of running and walking footsteps.
Similarly how Predator should also increase the sound of running and walking footsteps.
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@RepliCant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/518716#Comment_518716
False information.
Also, sounds are broken and we can't hear footsteps even on the Killers side. Not to mention, foot steps aren't directional.
So please, with correct and not-false info, what are the counters to a Prayer beads Spirit?
I fail to think of any.
If you scroll up it has already been said multiple times by multiple people.
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Not only are Hex perks not OP, but most of them are quite weak and could use buffs.
DS isn't OP anymore, it's just a really good perk. I do however think the timer on it should be 45 seconds though as at 60 seconds it still isn't just an anti-tunnel perk, which is what it's supposed to be.
I don't think "second chance" perks are healthy for the game in general though.
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@Poweas said:
@Blueberry agreed, she's strong with her base, but if you mess up once, you could lose. That's balance. It means she takes a lot of skill and precision to play.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519541#Comment_519541
Yeah I agree. She has strong counter play and a high skill cap.
Whereas Billy has a much lower skill cap with not as much counter play besides just dropping the pallets early. Caught out too far from a pallet? You're boned. Spirit isn't balanced around a poorly balanced mechanic like pallets.
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@Ksoni said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519541#Comment_519541
If spirit isn't the most balanced killer, then who it is? Im asking all the people who gave downvotes on this comment above.
I figured I'd get massively downvoted.
The downvotes are probably less to do with the Spirit comment and more because they all think Billy is super balanced and doesn't need any changes.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519412#Comment_519412
I dislike that he claims that every next Killer needs to be stronger than the previous one.
I personally couldn't care less if every single upcoming Killer would be weaker than Nurse.
But we recently get nothing but Killers on the same level as the shittiest version of Wraith.
Mcote: "But it's fun to puke on them, and to hit all Survivors in one sprint, and to have your Power cancelled as Ghostface by simply being looked at!"
It is...when it brings good results.
"I dislike that he claims that every next Killer needs to be stronger than the previous one."
I dislike that he states that as well because no one is asking for that at all. What we are asking for is simply rank 1 viable killers, not killers better and better than the previous ones. He misunderstands what people want.
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@Awakey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519541#Comment_519541
While spirit is *cough* stronger *cough* than our Billy Boi,I can see where the devs are coming from in terms of balance.
"I can see where the devs are coming from in terms of balance."
In what sense do you mean?
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519358#Comment_519358
Spine Chill is definitely useful against all killers. If it lights up that means the killer sees you and is coming to chase you. It can let you know when the killer has BBQ or Nurse's or some add-on that reveals your aura. It can help you to juke killers at jungle gyms or in corn. Especially useful against a Nurse or Spirit in general, since if it goes dark that means they probably aren't following you so you don't have to run anymore. It can help you to know which direction to NOT go when trying to loop some spots.
The only time Spine Chill is a waste is against SM Myers, but for that you just run because he is slow AF.
I agree, Spine Chill is a highly underrated perk.
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@Awakey said:
I really don't understand why people worship the Clown. I'm a killer main and yet still I can loop a Clown for 5 gens. I just run through his gas. Ok, MAYBE he'll prevent me from going around, idk, one more time, but in the grand scheme of things, he still gets looped, he still gets shacked, and he still gets hit with infinites.
Is this in red ranks? That just sounds like a bad Clown
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@OMagic_ManO said:
I am building this on community opinion, so everything is subject to change but I figure this would be helpful in general consensus.
I believe there actually is already a community rated tier list out there on reddit that tracks everyone's votes.
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I personally don't think Billy is well balanced either.
To me the ideal balanced killer is Spirit.
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Depends how each person is building their tier list.
Nurse is in an entire league of her own, but I would put Spirit and Billy behind her in S tier. You could call that A tier but then I'd have to move the other killers down as well.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Billy is B but moves to A or S if the survivors don't understand curving.
Clown is massively overrated as an anti-looper. I'd put him at C or B.
Doctor at B.
Trapper is B against solos and D against SWF, so I guess is C is fair
To be fair I don't think there's much counter to curving even if you understand and see it coming other than wasting pallets really early.
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@Chi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/518210#Comment_518210
Learning how to beat Prayer Beads? The reason it is so OP is because there is no counter to it.
There is and it has already been listed by multiple people including myself earlier in this thread.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519456#Comment_519456
If we're referring to the "Play With the Devs" stream, he explicitly said at the beginning of that quote that it is his personal belief. He is not a competitive player, he knows that (even said it himself right after), he plays for fun.
Then his personal belief is what the balance team has been agreeing with and going by since most the killers released have followed that principle.
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@brokedownpalace said:
Can somebody provide a link and a time stamp where Cote said this? I see it spouted a lot around here and I'd love to hear it for myself.
There was a couple times but here is one of them.
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@thrawn3054 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/519218#Comment_519218
They're useful against stealth killers. Otherwise they're a waste.
I disagree.
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I don't expect to find out anything till its release next week.
They aren't adding anything to the PTB and there won't be any time to change anything in between, so there would be no reason for them to release the info early aside from just being nice.
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Anti-loop tier list IS the tier list. Whether or not you counter looping and to what extent is basically what makes the tier list. With some small exceptions, but generally.
I'd put Legion in C.
Clown in B.
Leatherface and Doctor down to C.
Probably Trapper C as well.
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@Peanits said:
Those two things are not mutually exclusive. You can have a powerful killer that's still fun to play against. I personally love playing against the hillbilly, for example, and he's one of the best. I'm not sure how this idea of fun only started but it's definitely not the case. Strength is also taken into consideration. This is something that's applied across the entire game too, not just killers. A perk like Decisive Strike was powerful, but it certainly wasn't fun for the killer, so it was changed to be much for fair with added counterplay. Now it remains powerful when you pull it off, but it's also possible to play around it.
With that in mind, we missed the mark with this one and we're actively working on changes as we speak. New killers change a lot while in development and what we're playing one week might be totally different the next. We always try to give you the most up to date build in the PTB, but that unfortunately means that some issues may arise; detecting Ghost Face before he activates his ability, for example, or even balance.
The goal is always to make something fun and powerful, not just one or the other.
"You can have a powerful killer that's still fun to play against"
I'd say people are upset because this philosophy hasn't been applied since Spirit.
"I'm not sure how this idea of fun only started but it's definitely not the case"
This came about because it was literally quoted from Mathieu Cote on stream.
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@HavelmomDaS1 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/518581#Comment_518581
But the perks u mentioned for killers are useful in every match. But premonition and spine chill to actually counter one single killer... NO, not a single killer, a single addon of a single killer. That's to much.
Premonition and Spine Chill ARE useful in every match. You just don't want to use them.
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That idea for advertising new cosmetics or DLC's with some art on the loading screen is a really good idea.
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@Mochan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/510266#Comment_510266
You're one to talk about interpreting the data when you by your own admission think the data is just wrong and disregard it as irrelevant.
Hence "you by your own admission think the data is just wrong and disregard it as irrelevant."
I came to that conclusion by interpreting the data, which is something clearly out of your reach.
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SWF artificially boosts people to where they shouldn't be
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@Groxiverde said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/518220#Comment_518220
How can you counter a thing you can't see coming? I mean, you are working on a generator, suddenly you get grabbed by spirit with prayer beads. How do you counter that? Gen-tapping for the rest of the trial?
Premonition, Spine Chill, Iron Will, moving grass and simply being cognizant of the killers location.
Along with a few other "soft" counter type perks to help you better know the killers location throughout the match to anticipate her coming and for jukes.
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
@Blueberry Glad they're making that ######### high risk high reward in 3.0.0 instead of get hit 3 times.
I agree, it's bad design.
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@bendermac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/518217#Comment_518217
Hmm, good point. But shouldn't MoM reset any heal progress?
I do not believe it does as MoM prevents the damage from happening entirely.
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@ABannedCat said:
The phasing sound is a major downside of the Spirit's power. It warns the survivors of her coming. Its the only counterplay to her. Spirit without sound is like a Nurse with a fatigue, a Billy without a penalty of bumping into objects. Prayer Beads remove every and any downside.
There are still multiple counters.
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She had self cared or a teammate had healed her to 99% prior and she just finished the last bit of it with the self care. That's all that happened here.
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Because it's easier to call something OP rather than learning how to beat them.
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@OtakuZero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/517936#Comment_517936
For the record this person thinks prayer beads are balanced. Think about that for a second.
Seems the majority of your down votes would agree with me. I'm Sorry but playing at low ranks doesn't give you any idea of the games balance.
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@Horus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/517108#Comment_517108
Los blockers yes high vegetation no
Why no high vegetation?
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516315#Comment_516315
With you having said that, what do you think of the devs wanting to address the "safe loops"?
I'm glad they're addressing them.
That said, I'll be holding my breath to see how well they are handled and if they are actually fixed.
Also, they are fixing 2 maps in an entire year if I understood that correctly. At that rate we'll never have all the maps addressed. Map design is one of the biggest issues in the game right now and needs a much higher priority than it seems to currently have. We need a lot more maps fixed much faster than it seems are currently in the works.
I understand that is a huge undertaking, but at the same time we have been pointing this issue out for at least 2+ years, so the reason it has become such an undertaking now is because it has been ignored for so long.
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@Salty_Pearl said:
Plague was fine in the PTB. If they won't revert her speed nerf then she needs buffs to Vile Purge.
- Survivors should have a -25 action speed reduction if they are broken.
- The rate that survivors get infected while preforming actions needs to be increased.
- Rework Black Incense.
I like your changes, but what's your issue with Black Incense?
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Bait.
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I think they need to give Myers his multi stalk back and remove the stalk limit perk survivor. This would allow him to make more plays.
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@se05239 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516232#Comment_516232
@Blueberry Survivor fun is more important than killer efficiency.
Yeah we see this a lot.
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@SloppySeconds said:
This thread is enormous, my God.
Yeah we don't see threads get this big that often. The majority of the community is in agreement on how weak Plague is and that she needs help. Hopefully this thread helps them realize that.
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@Dehitay said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516565#Comment_516565
Having a small patrol area garunteed for the first gen might be too powerful on some killers like Doctor.
It happens against Doctor in normal matches and is manageable, especially with 4 survivors still up. Also, Doctor is pretty close to the bottom on the tier list. I feel like he needs a lot anyway so I don't really see it as an issue.
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@MasonMyers69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/517186#Comment_517186
I've noticed this a lot, since legion, look at ghostface's on the PTB for example, the greens are way better, his "ultra rares" are #########, someone needs to rethink the balance team at BHVR
Yeah this is why most killers best addons are their very-rare or rare addons. With all the downsides, most killers ultra-rares end up gimmicky at best.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
The only thing i want for her is removal of slowdown when charging, holding and releasing vile purge. I don\t care if it's add-on or just base kit. Speaking of add-on, does anyone use Iridescent Seal? I just don't understand what went through developers heads when they developed an pink add-on that decreases duration and movement speed for a minor benefit of getting corrupt purge. I'd seriously want to ask them why they think 2 demerits for one positive is a good trade for add-on.
That addon doesn't deserve any of the downsides they attached to it. They just need to remove all those negatives from it and it will look decent. They have a habit of putting unnecessary downsides on ultra-rares to where they just aren't worth using.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516350#Comment_516350
The problem is that survivors rely too heavily on pallets and windows to survive. This is why it's very difficult to nerf them by how much they need.
True, but fixing the maps where two strong loops don't spawn directly beside of each other should be a start. This means you won't have all strong loops in one area, but more of having a distributed amount through out the map. In the year 4 anniversary stream, they explained it better when they talked about reworking Badham Preschool to have better distributed pallets.
Survivors need more alternate ways to survive so that we can touch the windows and pallets appropriately.
Perhaps more LoS blockers and high vegetation would satisfy that "alternate" way to survive. Thoughts?
Yeah it's like i've mentioned before, the game needs MASSIVELY more tall grass/reeds/fog/bushes/boxes/debri/darker lighting etc.
Once all that is added pallets and window amounts and how strong they are can be nerfed quite a good deal since they won't be entirely relying on them anymore. All those extra things we are adding will allow more stealth play but more importantly allow for making jukes mid chase which is currently just not realistic against a good killer on most maps. This would add a lot more skill instead of just spam circling pallets and windows over and over.
This change is what would inadvertantly buff weaker killers and nerf the top tier killers since viability wouldn't be solely determined by how well you are at chase and how well you deal with pallets anymore.
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It's because SWF allows people to get boosted to ranks they don't belong in.
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That is simply not true.
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/516858#Comment_516858
@Blueberry do the survey, he included both.
ah thanks. Most people don't.
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To play as or against? That's a big difference
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@GrootDude said:
@Blueberry this is a old thread.
ah didn't notice