Blizer
Blizer
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Watching Otz rn:
Pallet Vault Nerf is Very noticeable, survivors can reach another loop or tile if she vaults (Depends on whats nearby), but its noticeable enough that survivors can actually reach another tile now.
Pallet Stun plus vault, Survivors can make quite a bit of distance now with both nerfs.
Intentinal Whip Change also decently noticeably, Krasue needs to start from the right angle or risks a miss, actually does implement some depth to her now, cant just slide and get a free hit now, actually have to get hits from the right angle. Shack might be more safe now.
Hes only testing against bots, will want to see him against actual players, but nerfs are actually noticeable on her, Survivors can bring her on a longer chase, espically on safer pallets.
Still think shes really, really strong and needs more nerfs (Insta M1 and Infection removal on hook), but they actually did give her noticeable nerfs
(Also Superior Anatomy doesnt work on her head form lol)
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Given these… "nerfs", prolly see Infection removed on hook and insta M1 gone next hotfix, though this change:
Decreased the time during which Intestinal Whip ignores obstructions to 0.35 seconds (was 0.6).
Prolly means that she cant hit over pallets with the whip AS consistently as she did before, and a nerf to her hug tech i think?
would need to see it in action, but if sizable thats an okayish nerf to her chase at loops.
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Krasue apparently is also Flashlight Save immune if she looks into the sky in head form
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1nqzyq7/bug_krasue_immune_to_flashlight_saves/
This killer man…
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I will say for Pallet Density, should have been kept to maps like Haddonfield and Coldwind that needed (key word) more pallets, cause it was really, really bad in its current state.
But Macmillian did not need a pallet increase, and its now become prolly one of the more survivor sided maps of the game, along with Autohaven
Feels like it forces M1 killers now into Enduring Fury now to deal with the amount of pallets on some of the maps now.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005355#Comment_4005355
Why is it that people should have "wait and see" for the phase 2 changes, but survivors can instantly know if Springtrap addons need to be changed and didn't need to "wait and see"?
Cause we tested Springtrap on the PTB and alot of people said his add-ons were really strong (Especially Remember Me! poster on PTB release, disgusting add-on lets be frank), but that was the only issue with him was his add-ons, rest of his kit was actually fine and well designed
I would say the Krasue was too on the PTB, they just had to clean up some bugs and stuff…. but instead they did this… and OTR got nerfed… and shes one of the best tunnelers in the game now. They went too hard in one direction and shes over-tuned very clearly and she needs some nerfs cause its geniuenly a terrible experince for solo survivors (hell even with SWF, you gotta play like your playing against the twins basically, always pairing up and someone is forced on bodyblock duty in chase, thats two people not doing gens)
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I think her counter play wise rn is just having non-infected body block hits for infected people, but that requires coordination and for solo survivors… thats not gonna happen every time.
Her hitbox i think everyone can agree on the tentacle is just broken rn, it might be bugged, but hitting over pallets and loops, along with vaulting over pallets, insta M1 after puke, her low cooldowns and really good map mobility, plus infection not going away on hook… its just a mess with her rn, and i think she needs to get hit currently (Right now id call for her M1 insta, hug-tech and massive hitbox on tentacles to get nerfed and infection going away when hooked atm).
Issue is her regurgiate is homing, so it can be incredibly hard to dodge, and forcing the m1 from her is the way to do it, but it can be very difficult… mainly because the cooldown on it is non existent. Not to mention her Add-on that spawns everyone with the infection allows her to snowball like crazy is insane.
They do need to nerf her, and atleast give another avenue of counter play, cause if the Krasue brings Bam-Dissolution, Survivors legit have no agency against her outside of someone taking body blocks.
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@kosaba11 said:
Lampkin Lane. A map that small has no place in this game - it gives an unfair advantage to the Killers, who don't need anymore advantages than BHVR already gives them. It's a BS map that either needs to be removed or reworked to be bigger so that it's actually fair.
Lampkin needs its 5th rework.
Swamp with more Pallets makes it better for Surv, but yeah, not a very friendly killer map, especially Grim Pantry's main being one of the worst for a good chunk of the killer cast.
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Bam has been a staple in general for most killers for a long time, dont think it or Dissolution should get nerfed (If they do nerf Bam… that backlash is gonna be worse than the OTR backlash they are getting)
same applies to Dissolution, which i do think is an underrated perk.
Krasue literally just takes away two of her "Biggest" weaknesses in chase with these two perks, because everything else is disgusting on her rn (Apparently the blood from her spit attack is a homing attack????)
She just needs nerfs rn, and i wouldnt be surprised if they push out a quick nerf or two for the first bugfix patch, with the follow up being where she gets the most changes.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005370#Comment_4005370
I don’t care if it’s called agency. That isn’t a magical word that makes things acceptable.
It doesnt take away anything from the killer, they can still benefit from it if the survivor ######### up and they knew the risk in doing so.
regardless, still stands that they didnt do anything to adress the loss of anti-tunnel perk, and the only one in the game promotes slugging (which solo survivors love), so Unbreakble and DS prolly gonna be in alot of peoples builds this week, along with Windows and an Exhaustion perk, nerfing perk diversity
just… cool work bhvr, really cool.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005374#Comment_4005374
but shoudnt we reward a person for learning a character?
They should be rewarded… but not like where she is in her current state, where survivors have no agency around loops
Even nurse has solid counter play (Break LoS, doubleback, and then hold W to confuse the player, be unpredictable.)
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/1np444b/this_goes_out_to_the_devs/
This clip kinda just showcases, like everything. No cooldown after her spit, she can get a free hit. Flies over the pallet and than can hit her Beyond the pallet after vaulting like Xeno (you can even see last second that she finishes the vault animation, so her hitbox is on the other side of the pallet)
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005359#Comment_4005359
That sliding actually needs some practice, and the penalty of missing it is quite huge too, as the recovery is really long. If you remove her sliding she'll be very clunky to play, like Wesker that stuck at the slightest edge.
Like I said, the flight is what makes her strong, because even if she missed, she can immediately catch up to you.
Oh im not saying that she takes no skill, but once you do you get things down… there is very little survivors can do against a good Krasue in her current state
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This leads back into the same cycle of Tunneling and that argument, im gonna leave it here as is.
Its not a good change, it hurts build diversity, hurts survivor agency, and gives the killer only one anti-tunnel tool they need to deal with… which encourages slugging
If they were gonna nerf OTR, they should have buffed other perks to atleast help deal with Anti-Tunnel… but they didnt, and the newest killer is arguably one of the best at tunneling in her current state, prolly even outright being better over PH in terms of tunnel potential.
Bhvr really didnt think about the drawbacks to nerfing this perk without these changes, and i think its gonna show throughout the week.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005357#Comment_4005357
It doesn’t matter if the survivor made the choice to be tunneled. It’s still encouraging tunneling, which is the exact opposite of what the perk is supposed to be doing.
The perk isn’t supposed to be “anti-tunneling unless the survivor decides it should be pro-tunneling”
But the point of the taking the hit isnt to encourage tunneling, its to take a prot hit, but take that risk of getting tunneled or going down increases significantly by doing so. Its called Agency, the survivor is actively making a choice that can directly affect the outcome of the game and for themselves by using whats at their disposal to affect the game in a positive manner for their team, while not negatively affecting the killer a significant amount (Killer likely still gets a down or a hook)
To me, that sounds like good game design when it does something like that, cause there is drawbacks to taking that endurance hit (encourages killer to after you), but it also wastes time and delays a hit on another player allowing them to reset if need be.
I do think i would be fine with this OTR change IF the anti-tunnel changes were implemented… they are not currently, and nerfing the perk does nothing but remove one of the few Anti-Tunnel tools and a significant amount of Agency for the survivors.
It also encourages less build diversity too, cause guess what perk everyone is gonna use to descentivize tunneling… the only Anti-Tunnel perk in the game
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@OmegaXII said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005355#Comment_4005355
Honestly, the only thing I've found overpowered is the flight. It can be used mid-chase, with no slowdown, recovery, and no need full energy means she'll always right on your back. It's like Spirit without charge time, no need to wait for fully charged, and she can see you directly.
I played some games where I purposely not spamming it mindlessly, and the chase becomes much harder to get downs and hits.
Anything else is fine for me though.
The Flight is really strong, but her ability to just slide around for a free hit is just ridiculous, especially on small loops.
Honestly the biggest thing i was confused from BHVR about was the nerf to mushrooms, they really didnt need to get nerfed at all but they did anyway.
I think if you just take Bamboozle on her, there is like nothing you can do on loops (I think there are even people saying she can hit over pallets? which if true with all of this baked in rn is just… yeah)
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@Coffeecrashing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005351#Comment_4005351
“They made their choice and that’s fine” isn’t a valid reason to allow survivors to weaponize endurance.
Because if the killer throws the OTR survivor back on a hook, it’s still considered tunneling. And it means the “anti-tunneling” perk actually encouraged the killer to tunnel.
It is though, Survivors are actively making the choice to use that endurance to take a protection hit for their teammate, or play bait.
That is the survivor ACTIVELY (keyword) knowing that they can be tunneled by the killer by playing in an altruistic manner, and as i said if they complain, they made their choice to go down again after getting hooked.
as the killer, if the survivor does that, cool, i get another hook, and the survivor can only blame themselves for allowing themselves to be downed so quickly again by playing in that manner.
The core function of the perk is still the anti-tunnel aspect, yes that endurance can be used… but so can the basekit BT endurance aswell, so can WGLF Endurance. It GIVES the survivor agency to make those desicions, and reap the consequences of it.
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@OmegaXII said:
Can we please give it more time for people to learn more about her before asking for nerfs?
Last time when Springtrap were released so many people telling he's broken and needs nerf, then a month pass somehow people agree he's just mid-tier.
I think the same's going with Krasur. IMO she's about just as strong as Singularity, only easier to play. If you think Singularity is okay, she's probably okay too.
I would usually agree with this philosphy, but Springtrap most people would agree was strong, but needed add-on nerfs before release (Celeberation Poster was a disgusting add-on from the PTB), but the rest of his kit was good and actually had skill expression and counterplay baked into his kit.
This on the other hand…. no I think she needs a hotfix, the only counterplay to her rn is body blocking which uhh in solo que is not gonna happen, and we both know that. Giving the killer Hug tech, nerfing mushrooms and quick cooldowns regarding her power was just… the wrong move, espically testing with the Anti-tunnel changes on the PTB (which likely affected BHVR's internal numbers, leading to her buffs)
At minimum, infection needs to be removed on hook and Hug-tech needs to be removed, its nerfs her ability to tunnel and makes it so you can counterplay on loops atleast, then i think we can wait and see how she looks.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
I really hope the Off The Record (OTR) change stays in the game. This version of OTR is way heathier than the previous version because survivors kept weaponizing the endurance effect against killers that were trying to chase someone else.
It feels bad when BHVR tells killers that it's bad to tunnel, but then tells survivors that it's ok for recently unhooked survivors to purposely run towards a killer so the survivor doesn't "waste" their endurance effect.
Normally, when a meta perk is problematic i would tend to agree… but not in this case.
Game is in a ######### state rn for Solo survivors, its prolly in one of the biggest lows its been in a hot minute with a killer thats as good as PH at tunneling and is nearly uncounterable at loops, and they got rid of one of the only options to deal with tunneling, leaving just one good perk now for it.
I actually despise nerfing perks most of the time, and more of the philosophy of buffing other perks to increase variety and choice, but yeaaaaaaa
Everyone is gonna run DS now, might honestly overtake Windows for most used perk for a short while
OTR def can be abused as you said, but thats also a strategic thing to use the endurance to take a hit, espically if another survivor is injured in chase, even if the killer gets back onto them and downs them, they made their choice and thats fine (Survivor mindset is another thing entirely, if they ######### about it, they made their choice on the matter by taking that hit).
Do i think they could find a way to make OTR healthier? yes
Do i think that gutting it is the correct call without the anti-tunnel changes? ######### no
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Its kinda crazy that they really didnt learn their lesson from Kaneki and the mess that they brought on with him. Jail tech being gone is nice, still a very strong killer and they gave him counter play…. after like 5-6 months of changes
Springtrap was everywhere but he has actual good counterplay and skill expression in his kit regardless if he doesnt fill what many people were expecting of a FNAF killer at the time design wise.
Testing the Krause on the PTB with the Anti-Tunnel changes was a massive mistake on BHVR's part and its something they shouldnt do ever again, you keep new killer changes and massive system changes seperate from each other testing wise, or you get this mess currently.
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@PetTheDoggo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4005001#Comment_4005001
I really hope they do some changes fast…
It's a long time since I got so annoyed while playing DBD, I did not go for instant DC even against Kaneki, even tho I hate him a lot, but I really consider doing it against her.I hope they do to and likely revert the OTR nerfs aswell (until the anti tunnel updated atleast). The hugtech should prolly get removed and having the infection disappear once you get hooked are prolly the best places to start atm for her, and then go from there.
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Issue is that people were also playing on the PTB with the new anti-tunneling changes and stuff during that time, which really overshadowed the killer (and its kinda crazy they tested those changes with a new killer, i think it should have been its own PTB, which it will get later down the line).
Krasue's counterplay has been reduced significantly with the buffs and BHVR pushed her way to far into the other direction. Do i think a coordinated team can deal with her? yes, but once again, SWF is the way to play rn, Solo que gets shafted because your not always gonna have teammates that will do that.
They will prolly hotfix her next week and i do think they might remove the slide-tech on her (It has erased a significant form of counter play in chase) and then let the dust settle a bit before doing more changes down the line.
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But yeah overall hes a fine character, just needs i think that tweak and bufixes and hes good for launch imo
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Bugfixes, and maybe a look at his more problematic add-ons. Celebrate Poster i think is unhealthy as things currently stand, and with how strong Unbound is currently i think it doesnt help the matter. Main reason is that i believe the add-on creates an unhealthy gameplay loop for the survivor where they need to get the axe out, but springtrap can see the axe so you cant mind game, and he runs faster than you still, and if he yanks you, its an instant pick up. Can really only hold W and yank the axe out yourself, but then spring trap gets his axe back instantly and can down you. Might be case of nerfing the axe by putting his power on cooldown if the survivor gets the axe out of their body before springtrap retrieves it, which hurts the celebrate poster add-on, but buffs greasy pizza plate as it increases the time survivors have to take the axe out of them.
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@LockerLurk said:
I have a few concerns about Springtrap and after some testing, I am not convinced he settles into the low A to high B range that everyone seems to say he does. Let's look at this seriously:
- The hatchet: First off, okay, this is cool and fun, and being able to instant grab people if you catch up and they can't get the hatchet out in time is nifty. But what about a single use hatchet that takes several seconds to respawn is better in any way to any Killer with a short range M2 like Unknown, Xenomorph, Dracula, Nemesis, etc.? How is that better than a ranged Killer like Huntress, who has more than one axe and can just down people in a couple hits with it anyway? It seems weaker than advertised. Very weak easily counterable antiloop.
- The instant grab on the hatchet: People don't like it when Myers does this with Tombstone (since it leads to a Mori). They're going to get similarly annoyed when Springtrap does it as it's a guaranteed grab. Yes, it's cool and all, but in the long term Survivors will get sick of dealing with this. It's also going to lead to an increase in tunnelling with this Killer because Springtraps who are good with the hatchet will use it to, likely, tunnel people off the hook, bloodlust them, and grab them again. This could get very nasty with haste perks. Please reconsider this mechanic's fun and fairness factor, and how easily it can be used to tunnel like this.
- The teleport with the doors: This is slower than some other Killers like Dredge and Sadako. It's also more easily disrupted than those Killers, with the drawback that like Sadako's TVs, it's influenced by chest spawn offerings. That's really unfair to this Killer, and doesn't feel good to be hit by. The doors are supposed to spawn by generators, but with the right offering they can spawn uselessly far away. That completely nerfs this Killer's map pressure. A Killer's power should not be able to be pre-countered with an offering this way.
- Grabbing from a door a Survivor is on: This is similar to Dredge and fine, but my problem is what is keeping Survivors from finding a way to run around disabling doors so Springtrap not only can't do this, but can't even pressure the map with the doors?
- The doors being usable by Survivors: What Survivor is going to risk using the door when they know Springtrap uses them and can intercept them for a free grab mid door use? It's a cool mechanic and all but it's like using lockers against Dredge - you don't do it, and Survivors will quickly learn this. They will understand that the counter is just to power down the doors and check cameras to find out where Springtrap is, but they will absolutely not use the doors to travel. They may however use the doors to bait him away from other generators being done, similar to how Survivors can use doing Pinhead's box to bait Pinhead away from crucial generators. This isn't the upside for the Killer or Survivors people think it is.
- The cameras revealing Springtrap: This suffers from the same issues as Singu's biopods, revealing Ghostface, and staring down the Unknown - it can also be influenced by bots, as they will always reveal his aura this way. A Killer's power should not be counterable by bots being able to read them through walls.
- 105% speed outside of the door teleport: This is almost worse than Sadako and makes Springtrap terribly weak around strong and tall wall loops. It means he functionally has no chase power and because he's tall and noisy, will easily be countered in chase if the Survivor can bait his hatchet for long enough. That isn't good for a chase down Killer in a chase heavy game.
- His perks: None of them are very good or worth bringing in the state they're in on the PTB. Help Wanted sounds nice on paper but "Mad Grit/STBFL for 60 seconds after you kick a generator" isn't that strong on a Killer that moves at 105% speed. It's frankly much better to just run STBFL for M1 Killers, and this perk has no use on M2 Killers at all. Phantom Fear is hilarious as it's just Killer Scene Partner, but 2 seconds of Aura read is pretty bad unless you're trying to counter checkspotting - and even then it doesn't work because screaming doesn't prevent the Survivor from pulling a pallet down or vaulting. If screaming changed to do those things, this perk would be a lot better. It feels like a bandaid fix perk to hiding, something already countered by Survivors getting AFK crows for "extreme hiding" and that something like Nowhere to Hide or Predator do much better. Haywire's an awesome concept and something the community has asked for a lot - the regression of the exit gate switch. This has use in endgame builds, the problem is that it regresses much too slow! It should regress at the same rate as doing the exit gate switch, there is literally no reason it shouldn't. That way it forces Survivors to stick on the gate. The other issue with this perk is that it's going to be too easily abused by highly mobile Killers like Nurse or Blight, as they can patrol gates very easily. That makes going for gates at the end way way too dangerous. if anything the perk is gonna need a cooldown but a quicker regression to compensate, it's somehow too weak for many Killers and too strong for already strong Killers. And frankly, the exit gate regressing slowly if the Surv lets go should really just be basekit anyway.
All this considered, I think with how easily bullied he'll be and how slow he is, he isn't at all an A or B tier. Try more like a low B to high C tier. I can think of several Killers with similar powers much stronger than his, but I can forgive all that if the Killer is fun. So is he fun?
Oh hell Fazbearin' YES, he's fun…
I agree with a couple things, but also:
Isnt he a 110% with the axe and a 115% when hes thrown it? he isnt 105% (hes 4.4, and 4.6 without the axe).
I do think hes gonna be really reliant on his add-ons (specifcally Foxy's hook and Celebrate Poster) to end chases quicker if need be (combine it with unbound, and yeah, it feels rough to deal with)
His Doors i agree with, bad RNG spawns can ######### him, he can grab party streamers and Bonnies Guitar strings to counter-act his weaker doors, and make them much more potent, but it leaves the axe with very little.
I acknowledge your point of the Axe grab (and something like ripped curtain and office phone) making tunneling scary.
His biggest weakness to me is that hes REALLY reliant on his Add-ons and how good the player is at playing him, i think a bad springtrap will get mauled, while a good one can maul survivors quickly. His add-ons allow him to branch out into alot of different builds and can be viable i think, but you do sacrifice either his mobility or anti-loop to compensate for it.
A Case of too many-good Add-ons that really make him better, but only two slots hinders him quite a bit in strength (which you can argue is good design, not making him oppresive in both mobility and anti-loop, and making killers either building for one or the other, going for both can help (Party Streamers, Foxy's Hook/Celebrate Poster).
BHVR will likely release a patch this or next week, and we will see some changes based on what they got info wise, but i think its fair to say hes one of the more balanced killers they have launched on the PTB, though the argument is if hes on the stronger or weaker side of things on their end.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3935796#Comment_3935796
in my experience the poster only makes the bigger change in rotation between loops/vaults as otherwise they might not make a 3rd rotation around a pallet but once they know how to play around that haste bonus i think itl be fine. Dont forget that its purple rarity so its supposed to be on the stronger end
Im fine with it being strong and your right that its purplre rarity should mean its a stronger effect, but i think its also fair to say that even if its a strong add-on, it can also be quite unhealthy at the same time. my argument isnt to nerf the add-on into nothing, but opening up more counterplay so that the add-on is more healthy to play against, because as it is currently, i do personally think it can create some really lose-lose scenarios, espically if springtrap is running Unbound (which is now a pretty good perk currently after the buffs), or another perk like Machine Learning.
And im not just trying to say "springtrap is really strong lets nerf him" instead, i think this nerf should be made to create a healthier gameplay loop for both killer and survivor and incentivizes the survivor to pull out the axe (and it also indirectly buffs the Greast Plate add-on, as it does take 10% more time to pull out the axe).
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Its def one of his best add-ons but i also think it might be his most unhealthiest tbh (the rest of them are pretty good and honestly decently balanced).
I think the strategy as survivor is to just hold W once the Axe is in and fun to the next loop/tile and get the axe out, but when you do, springtrap gets the axe back instantly, so it kinda creates an unhealthy lose-lose situation for the survivor, where i think they will go down quick regardless.
The move (if BHVR doesnt want to nerf the add-on) might be that if a survivor pulls out the axe, his power goes on cooldown, so that survivors can get to the next loop. I think in general its a good nerf, because it incentivies survivors to pull out the axe so the springtraps anti-loop is disabled for a bit if you can pull it out.
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@XDgamer018 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3934499#Comment_3934499
as long as bhvr doesnt nerf his basekit im fine with it addons should complement the power anyway not be mandatory (slowly looks at: trapper, knight and deathslinger)
Oh i agree completly, i acutally think his add-ons add alot of nuance to his kit, espically his purples and his iri's, all im saying his some of them might (mainly Celebrate me! poster) could be a bit overtuned, but i think with how much skill expression is in his kit with throwing and hitting a surv with an axe, balances that out where i think really good springtraps can be absolutely nuts with it, while springtraps that are newer will be much more inconsistent with it.
Again, not saying to nerf them currently, but something to keep an eye on, as i think over the course of the PTB (Like usual) we will see how peoples perceptions of the add-ons shakeout.
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Id say he leans on the stronger side, as it is currently, hes got good anti-loop and decent map mobility (as Shanoa said, similar to Ailen in that respect)
I do think His add-ons though are something to really take a look at and monitor currently. Celebrate Me! addon is lowkey stupid strong (mix it with something like Unbound or machine learning) and survivors will very much struggle to get away and you get the insta-pick up with the axe if you get the hit (Do think really good Springtraps will abuse this add-on like crazy as they get better.)
Foxy's hook feels too good to pass up as an add-on currently (even though survivors can benefit from it as a trade-off). I think he might be on more of the balanced side of killers, and he has alot of skill expression in his kit (Knowing when to re-call the axe in a chase, hitting your axe on the survivor, learning the arc of it, how to play around the doors and knowing survivors can also use them, and seeing if you can get that instant down from prediction plays).
I know some people have issues with his theme (Axe is more of fan thing, but Scott approved of it seems), but hes def one of the more balanced killers they released onto the PTB.
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@LockerLurk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3873034#Comment_3873034
I am NA and I rarely see serial slugging, I much more often see tunnelling over here, which is easily dealt with and still also pretty uncommon. I genuinely am not getting these super toxic slugging lobbies, which either means I am very lucky or some players doth protest too much, methinks.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872940#Comment_3872940
Respectfully friend I have never seen a version of tag where this isn't allowed. Most people just don't do that because the tagged person is then It, or out of the round, or they learn to stay away from the person who is It better. I don't think the analogy quite fits here.
Im also NA, and i dont see slugging outside of the occasional Twins or Oni, with Twins being the common one. I havent ssen much lately either, but alot of people are complaining about it, and i have seen in general an increase on the complaining lately. I do think BHVR needs to do something if this continues to be an issue and if it grows and festers from where it is right now (Though that might be an EU thing rather an NA thing.)
I agree on the tunneling, thats very much prelevant here in NA, but idk how much compared to EU
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@[Deleted User] said:
A lot of the replies highlight what I suspected. This is largely an EQ problem.
Players defending mass slugging keep pointing out why they're doing it as if people will suddenly be ok with it as long as they have a good reason.
Nobody cares why you're doing it. It's ruining the game for 4 other people. They want you to stop. Like...this is a basic life skill.
Yeah, it is mainly a Player type problem with the killer choosing to do so, but I think BHVR has the power to increase incentivization of hooking, while also buffing anti-slug Surv perks and nerf/re-work knock out. It wont kill slugging, but it would make trying out right 4k with it more difficult, but it still remains strong in situations that you as the killer need to slug. But BHVR chooses not to do so right now, until it becomes too large of a problem to ignore, so if it continues, i can see them changing stuff if it gets to a breaking point, which it feels like it always has to reach that point to see changes.
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So, i had a post written up but i forgot to save it so whatever. Rundown:
- Killers feel like slugging is the best way to play for the 4k, given the amount of anti-hook perks that survivors have in general.
- It creates an unhealthy cycle, as Survivors feel forced to run perks that counter Slugging (Unbreakable, Tenacity, etc) to deal with the increased amount of it
- People on the forums and in general have noticed it has increased recently
This has nothing to do with this stuff with events i know, trolls and shitters like ######### around at event starts, but i do think changes need to be made for BHVR to create a healthier ecosystem with this #########, so my ideas.
- Buff Scourge Hooks. Add 1-2 more hooks, and do small buffs for perks that arent Pain Res and Floods of Rage (Because they are already very good)that are scourge hook related. Makes it so its more rewarding for the killers to hook survivors and they get more benefits from it, and also buffing weaker perks that might need it. Becareful with Gift of Pain, that can be problematic if taken too far (Which is why the addition of 1 scourge hook is prefered.) Could also rework a perk or two in a scourge hook to increase variety
- Nerf/Rework Knock-Out. It's unhealthy, and if you say it isn't your crazy, considering the state of solo que for survivors. It's not strong yes, but this perk needs to be changed in someway to either make it healthier, or nerfed until BHVR can figure out a way to make it healthier.
- Most Controversial change id argue, but buffing anti-slug perks that are not unbreakable. So, buffing a perk like Soul Guard or Tenacity, make it so it's weaker to slug overall if you have these perks. (They can also add new perks aswell, but considering BHVR's track record, its gonna be either garbage or broken, no inbetween).
Overall, it makes it more worth for Killers to hook Survivors, extra scoruge hooks and buffed effects make it more viable to hook because you get more bang for your buck. Knock Out is unhealthy, and it either needs to be re-worked or put in the dumpster until it can be, and a buff or two to other anti-slugging perks (Soul Guard) to add more options and give survivors more abilities to fight back against slugging, but that is a fine line that needs to be put in place, because you tip past it, could cause issues for Killers, and we might be back in this cycle, but in the reverse, where Slugging is nerfed completly to the dirt, and it feels awful to use, espically considering it is very much viable in certain situations, where Slugging matters and is very important for the killer. Overall, Slugging for the 4k gets nerfed, but slugging in scenarios where it can help the killer and is beneficial for them should be relatively untouched.
Yes, i know there will be issues with this from both sides, but i do think something needs to happen that allows both sides to have healthier gameplay loops with each other in general right now, and to create a healthier environment. BHVR just need to becareful with how they adjust stuff, because it can cause issues, as we have seen many times in the past if they go to far in one direction.
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About a week ago, I let my team die as a survivor, after being put in a bad position.
Context, we were on the Thompson house against burger king Myers, we were doing okay, and we got the gens done, and all of us were unhooked, couple hook stages and so on some people.
the Feng was in trouble, Myers was chasing her throughout the house, Me and Nea, who were injured, were on the way to the gate Sable was opening. I will say this aint my fault here, but Nea went into the house to play altruistically and get the Feng.
The Myers had 3 stacks of DH, and downed both in the house, leaving me and Sable to try to rescue them as he slugged.
As the sable left to go find the totem and come from the other side, I searched around the tile around the Exit Gate for the totem, but then i came to a startling realization, as I played around most of the map for the game and i didnt see any lit totem in any other tile.
It was in the house.
Then Sable went down, leaving me up against a Myers that can wallhack and has no TR, and can Instadown, with no way to cleanse the totem
I felt really bad, but I decided to leave given the situation, Maybe I could have saved my teammates but… I dont think I could, and it ate at me for a couple days after doing that.
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Not defending the nerf, but considering its new chapter, and we got a bunch of people playing again like every new chapter, the more casual playerbase is struggling with dealing with it right now (Even though if you get the Mage Hand Item, it actually is pretty good against it.)
@Merciless_Killer said:
I play both roles and mage hand is 100% counterable. You can bait out mage hand or greed pallets until he is forced to use it and just keep running around the tile until it runs out. You can also use window loops where mage hand isn't even usable.
People complaining about Mage Hand are people who are used to being able to pre-drop every pallet on the map and win. When that doesn't work they call the killer OP and demand nerfs instead of learning to play different.Agree with this, playing Greedy with the pallet, with the Mage Hand item is the best way to play against it, and if he uses it to hold the pallet, you get another loop and you can stun him, or atleast make him break the pallet while you get to another loop.
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@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3735421#Comment_3735421
Nurse is no faster than 4.6 killers in average speed nowadays, you are objectively incorrect
Nurse with Lethal Pursuer is whatever, LOS blockers exist
Nurse with Nowhere to Hide? especially on a indoor map like the game? wooooof
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WIth Lethal, I Dont think it's super unhealthy, but with how popular it is, id say as survivor not running Distortion, you do need to take a good look of whats around you (Or use Windows) to get a quick exit strategy if the killer gets on you early.
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So i watched JRM earlier today, and uhh yeah, Stakeout, Bardic, Hyperfocus and Fast Track equals like 40 Sec Gen Times, and that was without a toolbox. Granted, means you dont have any defensive or exhaust perks, but still, if Survivors want to go for Pure Gen Rush, that might be the build for it now
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So another thing to add to the pile, and something that BHVR should do soon and its a relatively quick add/fix.
In the Star room with the portal down in the basement, there is no TV or Xeno Tunnel within the room with the Generator, closest one for both is in the God Loop. Playing against a Sadako and Xeno, both struggled significantly, and if you leave that gen as one of the lasts, Idk how Xeno and Sadako play around it in the current state, and i do think they should move the one from the loop closer towards the room
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Honestly, in a 3 gen, and I hooked someone in the middle of it. Even if it's good play on my part, there is nothing that poor sap can do, as even their team can't save him at all lol.
Happends decently often, but I still feel bad
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@Kirahie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3176312#Comment_3176312
Gardens trees blocking numerous killer powers is an abomination.
Those bushes can go ######### themselves lol
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@Araphex said:
Pyramid Head can hit survivors during loop with Punishment of the Damned if timed right.
Freddy can place down dream snares or dream pallets.
Ghost Face and Pig - Crouch. Survivors can have trouble seeing which direction you're coming from.
Both Bubba and Billy can destroy pallets quickly with their chainsaws. Both can also down healthy survivors with said chainsaws.
Oni, similar to Billy but with giant club.
Trickster, knives. Lots of knives.
Trapper has traps.
Wraith, hard to see. Speed increase.
Hag, curse and teleport.
Myers... Tier 3...
Blight... Dash, dash and dash.
Twins, use both.
Nemesis can hit survivors with tentacle through pallets and windows.
Dredge has the remnant, nightfall and locker teleport.
Wesker can vault pallets, hit through pallets and windows like Nemesis.
Sadako is the only one out of any of the ones any of us suggested that might not have any anti-loop plays. Unless I or someone else missed one.
If there is a TV around the loop outside of that, it's mind games.
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Yeah, uh
No, if there are two left with multiple gens left, either try to sneak gens in, or go next not much else you can do. Sucks if it happens tbh, but you can only play for hatch/collapse if you really want to get out
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3174209#Comment_3174209
This is already the case for many things in the game. The Deathslinger's gun, for example, use a different and more accurate collision than the colliders for characters which allows him to shoot through small holes and over loops that you normally wouldn't be able to.
And im glad it is tbh, even with slingers rough edges rn, its super satisfying getting those shots off in loops lol.
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Honestly, ive seen it run with stakeout, PtS, BtL and Hyperfocus with the toolboxes. I do think its an issue with SwF, but issue with this build is no endurance/speed perk, which means if you ######### up or get out played by the killer and hooked, not many tools outside of your disposal. It def is powerful for gen rushing, but you have to be good at looping and playing stealthily to pull it off in Solo. Again, SwF is a different monster entirely, and thats going to be rough as ######### unless your like, skillcheck doctor, or are running pentimento.
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Also yeah, Azarovs and Suffo pit are notorious for it. Atleast in Suffo pit you can literally chase killer around main for a solid while tbh. Azarovs....
Yeah, good luck with that lol
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Honestly the other day i was playing Slinger on Garden of Joy, and i got a nasty 3 gen around shack, had line of sight of all 3. Its games like that, teach me how to be a better survivor in terms of map awareness and making sure we can have atleast 1 gen far away from the others. Issue is its solo que, so while you may recognize it, your teammates wont lol.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
Blood Favor for killer and Autodidact for Survivor
I do agree with Blood Favor, espically on m1 killers.
Ending chases early and keeping up momentum is always huge on killer, and this perk does that. Issue is that its a hex and can be destroyed, but you should get value out of it atleast once per game.
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@Nazzzak said:
There's no way I'd waste my escape cake lol even if it was a Starstruck Nurse on Midwich I would see that ######### out
Agreed, even if i hate playing against it, if i got streamers or cake on me, i want that BP
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I also think Resurgence is underated aswell for survivors. Saving time is always huge, and cutting the time to heal after unhook is quite significant, and it synergizes with other healing and unhooking perks decently well.
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I think Coup De Grace is quite underrated right now tbh. The increased Lunge range can actually end chases quicker, and makes some decent loops nearly unplayable for survivors. Only issue is that you can only get it when gens are done which sucks, but its super powerful in the right situations.
on Survivor, i think Any means necessary is kinda gimmicky, but its a good perk for solo que, as you get info of where the killer is chasing someone due to the dropped pallets, and the ability to reset some pallets (Espically shack pallet if it isnt destroyed) can be massive for survivors, as you can reset the loop essentially.
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Honestly i think buffing other survivor perks instead of nerfing killer perks is the way to go tbh, but i do think old DH was super unhealthy for the game and it shouldnt be brought back in any manner, and if it does need buffs, i think adding 0.25 seconds to the DH window is what i would give it currently, but i dont think it needs it right now. There is another topic on it, but i do think they should revert DS back to 5s would help survivors out a bit, but keep it being disabled in the collapse.
I also think an issue that is plaguing the game and is affecting how the game can be balanced rn is the vast rng of tile spawns in the game. You either have nothing but deadzone, or multiple t-walls that lead into god pallets or shack. You either loop the killer for 3 to 4 gens or you go down within 10 seconds, and that can lead to frustrating gameplay on both sides outside of a couple specific killers who can negate it, but for the rest suffer from poor RNG.
I do think the game needs something where instead of new content within one of the 3 month periods where we get it, BHVR instead focuses on cleaning up core issues and cheating that is been steadily rising as of late. Sucks for lack of new content, but i do think the game needs a good period of time where they just clean out the issues and make it a better experince for everybody
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@xni6_ said:
the issue with boons is how circle is so undeniably op, and the other 3 are just kinda average
shadwstep sucks bc its just a lose the killer for free, exponential sucks bc you cant really slug if it exists, dark theory sucks bc it doesnt do much against most killers
like breaking a boon causing all totems to break and for all survivors to be exposed for 30 seconds wouldnt be a big deal it it was circle, but if it was a lone shadowstep then its not a good change
coh needs to be nerfed into the ground. that will make boon play as it is ok
my suggestion for a coh nerf is removing the self healing ability and speed boost
Uhh, that means CoH literally does nothing, it literally just gives the self heal and speed boost to healing, so your pretty much just saying to remove the perk from the game lol.
Honestly i dont think nerfing is the way to go, but i think buffing the other boons and counters towards them is the way to handle this issue in the short term and even the long term to an extent tbh, so boon variety can increase, and counters towards them are more plentiful and significant tbh, and also where killers dont need to run multiple perks to counter boons.
Its why i think making so blessing totems triggers Hex:Retribution would make it an excellent counter to Boon totems, with counterplay in regards to destryoing the hex before setting up. Again, more of a bandaid fix, but i think one that makes a niche killer perk much more viable in the current meta.