Arcturus
Arcturus
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@DodoSwarm said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111589#Comment_4111589
ah, I am always busy with work when the DBD Anniversary stuff comes around, but yeah I wish a lot more information about the surveys they do is public, and hopefully sometime after the new MMR settles they make full stat breakdowns per MMR level available, I want to see how well perks and killers are doing per MMR bracket
I'd like to see that too, I'd love to see how any of the MMR functions, but I guess doing that would make it feel like a ranked mode and BHVR can't make up their mind if this is a casual or competitive game
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@MiseryandCompany said:
To respond to your points @Archangel20 :
1. On that I agree. the 0.3 seconds makes it nigh useless trying to curve while zealous.
2. I actually disagree here. Judgements entire playstyle is feast or famine. She is only really able to assert pressure when she actually hits her shots, as people seem to be sidestepping the beams on gens just fine, IF they actually sidestep. that is the big disparity I see right now: The survivors that dont react at all get hit, the ones that pay attention dodge it fairly well. Her only being able to run the hex totem build for gen regression (which is another can of worms, nerf Thrill of the Hunt further imo) is reducing regression to a minimum as she relies heavily on aura perks to function. She NEEDS to pressure gens by trying to disrupt people repairing them, thats a good thing.
3. I think this is only partly true. People being chased right after being freed from exile is usually because people use shrines very carelessly right now, plus Judgements see the "unhooker" with a higher probability because people are exiled with aura reading like Celestial Witness, so they are more likely to go where the unhook happened. That is just natural, its not tunneling per se.
4. This is the BIGGEST disagreement I have with your point here. It is true that being exiled disables persk that are activated when being hooked or unhooked, but it is also true that exiling disables KILLER perks that trigger on hooking or unhooking. Meaning the stringest perks in the game like BBQ, Friends Till the End, Pain Resonance, Pop goes the Weasel…. all ALSO dont work. It is just a tradeoff, not a design issue.
5. Survivors get basekit extended unhook protections from collecting faces in the exile, plus see point 4.
6. Judgements entire design is built around her using aura perks. She is akin to 4 aura perk Huntress, you just have to go in with the expectation that she likely sees you. Plus her aura perks have conditions you can know as to if she sees you or not.- Gearhead only reveals you when you did a good skillcheck on a generator
- Celestial Witness tells you that she sees you by making you the obsession
- Deerstalker only triggers if you had the least chase time
etc etc. These are things you can play around with. You can also use her aura reading against her, perks like Object of Obsession absolutely destroy her as you know when she sees you from you seeing her aura.
7. That is true. I had 1 group emote spamming with emote cancelling so they dont get the heresy debuff. Also had one swf that had 1 tbagger at the exit gate where the rest just heal teched the 2 hits before the 8 seconds ran out. 12 seconds would be better if its actually supposed to stop BM at the exit gates imo.I at least understand most of your points, but not for 4 and 5. For point 4, I literally addressed that in the OP. Yes the killer also has the tradeoff of not being able to use hook / unhook perks which also contain some of the most popular/strong perks in the game, but they obviously know that going into the game. Unless they are brand new, they will never run a build where they basically can't use their perks, and instead will just look for replacements. Can't use Pop? The killer knows that, so they bring Eruption (which also gives aura reading so it's even better). Can't bring Pain Res? There's an addon that basically acts as a replacement. Can't run BBQ / Friends / Alien Instinct? Run Blindfold of the Devoted or a different aura reading perk.
There are many other perks that serve similar purposes that the killer can run but more importantly knows they should run before going into the game. The survivors, even for the perk categories that have replacements that do not require hooking / unhooking (and some, like anti-tunnel, pretty much don't have any), whenever they run into Judgement there is an extremely high likelihood that at least one of their perks if not more will be rendered completely useless.
As for point 5, unhook protections got nerfed back down to 10s so the extended protections in my experience usually end up around 15s maybe 20s. That's essentially the same as it was before but with elusive, and people still tunneled really often with 15s BT. The elusive might help a bit more with this duration, but 1. this is a killer where the distance from taking the BT hit will not do much for you and he will just snipe you immediately after getting rid of BT and 2. even if you're on a map that helps you get away with elusive, once elusive is up, the killer will almost 100% be running a bunch of aura reading and find you again. And again, like I said in the OP and now here, anti-tunnel perks just straight up do not work, so there is absolutely nothing to be scared of to tunnel a survivor.
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I think for this clip in particular, part of it is probably the MMR changes put you with some baby survivors, it's happened to me a lot. But that's only part of it, if they weren't baby survivors I'm sure you still would have gotten one or two of the hits. I do personally think that some of the aura builds are a bit too oppressive, you aren't even using her aura reading addons which I honestly think make builds like this definitely too much.
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@DodoSwarm said:
It would be interesting if DBD put this poll on the homescreen when you log in
I think they asked similar questions in a recent player feedback form from after the anniversary, but we never get to see the results. Personally I'd love to see the results of an in-game poll like this
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I think honestly we'll have to see 1. when the new MMR settles and 2. when people actually get used to the killer on both sides whether the killer is overtuned or not. For right now I think it's fine (although I personally have gripes with some of the aura addons)
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There are honestly a lot of places they could look to place servers and probably should, but I think they said they aren't looking to expand the number of servers. I know it's not nearly as bad but when you're like me smack in the middle of the US when there are two servers on each coast of North America for some reason but not a single Central server it feels a bit targeted lmao
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Honestly I usually love DBD's music up until the 3rd layer. At that point, most killers have a terror radius that slowly adds in different elements and complexity. My issue has always been with the Chase Music itself. Some killers' Chase Music sounds absolutely nothing like their layer 1-3 music, and it's usually for the worse
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111449#Comment_4111449
it asked for my username so I plugged it in when I filled it, it just said only the email wouldn't be shown. I can fill it out again but I don't wanna be seen as rigging the vote
I have it set to require Google sign-in so you can only submit one response, if it didn't go through you should be able to do it again
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111380#Comment_4111380
did mine get through? Idk if my net had a hiccup when I submitted
I'm not sure, if you left your username then no I don't see it, but if you didn't submit your username you'd have to give me some answers (the text answers would be most useful) for me to see if it's there
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Yeah I saw that, either it's a bug they were too lazy to fix for 6 years or it was originally never intended and they're gaslighting us
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Update: we're at 16 responses right now! Hoping we can get at least 25
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Yeah I noticed this in the PTB but thought maybe I was crazy cos no one else was talking about it
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Yeah exactly, you can just add those @s to your old comments
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111219#Comment_4111219
Again? Man I hate it when this happens, I'm not exactly sure on how to @ anyone here lol
If you just put an @ symbol and then type their username it'll pop up in a list and you can click on it
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@KingOfDoom55 said:
Agreed, that's why I think a hivemind/facehugger/drone ability would actually make sense for why the turrets would be oppressive if they were to keep them this way, but if not, I don't see why the turrets should remain the way they are now
Just a heads up since this happens to me, you might want to add some @s to your comments. I think it did the same thing to you as it does to me, where after you leave one comment quoting someone, you have to refresh the page otherwise the quote button doesn't work.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
my response is almost certainly biased but i hope it helps exe achieve a score of more than 1.5
You'll be happy to hear that for both sides his score is much higher than that lmao, I don't think Executioner is very hated
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I've updated the Google Form to include the option to give a reason for a rating at someone's suggestion! I'm sorry to the people that weren't able to do that, but hopefully if anyone feels like they want to explain their reasoning for a particular rating they'll feel more free to do so from now on. It'll be interesting to see what reasons come up repeatedly, although for ones like playing against Twins I can already see it coming lmao
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111111#Comment_4111111
But seems like anti tunneling improvements completely abandoned forever, killer streamers wont like it, all it takes a manufactured outrage and then cancelled. So i think its lost cause, in fact isnt baseline BT getting a nerf with next patch?
Hopefully it's not abandoned forever, but yeah the 9.2.0 PTB was canned and yes basekit BT is getting nerfed so it's going to get worse starting tomorrow. Honestly though, while I do obviously think there will always be some killer players that would get upset about any kind of anti-tunnel system, I think more of the community would have reacted more positively if the 9.2.0 PTB's system wasn't so harsh. The punishments were harsh which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's definition of tunneling was blurry so it had the very real possibility of punishing killers that shouldn't be punished, and the reward for spreading hooks just wasn't enough in compensation. I feel like if those issues were properly ironed out, less of the community would have been so upset—as with the 9.2.0 PTB even a lot of survivor players thought the system was too much—and the system could stay.
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111096#Comment_4111096
Again! Tunneling is not issue paired with pallet density or mmr. It's efficient way to win same as spreading on gens. The fact that you lose game to tunneling killers is mostly either that tunneled survivor is bad at looping or that other survivors don't do gens. If someone is tunneled it takes min. 4mins to kill them which is plenty of time to pop most if not all the gens. It's what makes me mad when I'm tunneled that survivors run to take hits, block the killer but no one is doing gens and now they are left in scenario where I'm dead, they have one gen left but one survivor is slugged, second is injured and last one is chased which mostly ends in full slug. If someone is tunneled just do gens, if they are not good at looping taking a hit won't buy them much time.
Tunneling somebody out from the beginning of the game and spreading gens are not at all the same. Yes, both are more "efficient" methods of playing the game. However, one completely eliminates a player early on in the match, cutting short their match, their rewards/bp, ruining their challenges, and ruining their experience. Spreading gens does not do that.
In addition, spreading gens does not automatically mean you will be able to win 90% of your games on survivor. Tunneling from the beginning does, especially on stronger killers, which is why it's more common to see from them. I still manage to win the majority of my games, probably around 70% or so, on Ghost Face (one of my mains) without tunneling from the beginning and often while playing extremely nice. Even most of the games that aren't wins are usually ties (2ks). If I'm able to achieve those results playing like that with Ghost Face, a bottom 3 killer, imagine what I could do hard tunneling a survivor out from the beginning of every game as Blight or Nurse? Simply spreading gens is not enough to counter tunneling. You either need the killer to make the mistake of chasing the wrong survivor, an extremely experienced player (ideally with anti-tunnel perks), or you need to help the player being tunneled if you don't want the game to be lost.
@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111096#Comment_4111096
If killer keeps slugging you can abandon. You don't remember times where killers slugged and then waited for people to bleed out. Survivors become way less frustrating than they ever been due to abandons, HUD and basekit protections. Try to imagine what it used to be to play against 5 blinks exposed slugging Nurses. Also coulrophobia which is common perk in slugging builds is getting nerfed, knock out got reworked so… It's only getting better for survivors after all.
It's true that you can abandon when all survivors are slugged now, and there have been a lot of QoL changes. But I would be lying if I thought things have just been getting better for survivors. Even when I was playing 5 years ago and BT wasn't basekit, I honestly think there was STILL less tunneling back then, as most killers assumed the unhooker had it anyway (as they usually did). In the last couple months, the tunneling has been the worst I've ever experienced, and as it's not being addressed in anyway, and in fact basekit protections are actually going to be nerfed in duration (no the elusive isn't going to do anything against a camping tunneling killer), it's only going to get worse.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111089#Comment_4111089
I think the only way to improve survivor experience to introduce a very tight matchmaking system.
The current rework is very misguided, the theory was that kill and escape bad indicator so changing that will fix the system.
The game is currently extremely comp heavy, as in asks really much from survivor team, and getting one bad teammate game instantly lost.
Here is the issue, there isnt mmr so to speak, it was never that didnt work, but rather game priority to get a game as fast as possible ignoring mmr values, because streamers demand fast matchmaking, and how else could be 1000+ winstreak happening? Its only possible because there in no mmr. Even the lowest tier killers has like 200+ wins in a row last time heard trapper.
All the new mmr will do, get everyone to high mmr, because it will be also based on chase, gen, altruism etc, so even if you died you wont lose mmr, or even gain it. So basically we watering it down even more.
But regardless the mmr isnt functioning anyway, and then there is lobby dodging so even if it were worked, destroyed right there, with backfilling.
For me the survivor gameplay is very bad right now, because nothing depends on me, but the start of the game, assigned with newbies in team ,sometimes A or S tier killer and nothing you do matters, lost, no agency. But i see all the time getting insane killers while your team get a new player or with one 100 hours etc
I don't think tight matchmaking would fix tunneling, people would still tunnel because it's the easiest most efficient strategy. In fact, very tight matchmaking might just make even more killers tunnel, as more of them would be in closer matches, and when so many of your matches are so close, even killers that don't hard tunnel will be tempted by the easy way out. The only way to stop tunneling is to, well, stop tunneling with an anti-tunnel system that punishes…tunneling. (how many times can I say tunneling in one sentence?)
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@zonkednb said:
Something about this post reads off, like it wasn't written by a person.
- Your Wesker proposal is exactly has he is now, just with the aesthetic of Uroboros removed. I suppose you buffed him by removing the need to hit a wall.
- Henry doesn't "need" M1 physical lunges. He only has it as it's a baseline all killers have to stop them being exploited up close. Most Henry's rarely go for M1s unless they are bad or the survivor forces it. Your power suggestion is just a buff, giving Henry significant passive slowdown by cloning Freddy's power but better. His primary means of dealing damage is already ranged, so like Wesker you want to change the animation and overall buff the killer?
- I mean this is just reverting to old Myers with buffs. I can agree with this at least. Tombstone can go away though. I don't care how he earns it, it was always lame.
Yeah it definitely could have been written by AI, it does give that vibe and formatting off
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111079#Comment_4111079
What I dont understand many killer players say they need to be given a reason to not tunnel, like what buffs can we give killers compared to instantly winning a game when only 3 survivor alive with multiple gens remaining?
Simply game design issue, its mindblowing how easy to win against majority of survivor teams, all it takes one weak link or missing communication (no discord) and most of teams has 0 odds against a high tier killer.
I can tunnel and also mix with it slugging and then survivors has no answer to this, so the game just miserable as survivor.
If i have to say one thing, its the pure torture, when you realize game lost because the weak link was tunneled out, and you need to repair 2-3 gens or more with 2 people, never gonna happen , you lost but no surrender option, no comeback either because all killer slug for 4k, so hatch wont ever happen
Yeah I mean the issue is that tunneling is way too strong and it destroys the games balance, especially on higher tier killers. So when killer mains ask for something of equivalent value to reward them for spreading hook states, that just completely misses the purpose, as that means that killers would be so strong they wouldn't even need to tunnel to dominate almost every single game
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ngl the Wesker one kinda just sounds like what we already have
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@Elan said:
This is last constant war against killer mains. Why wouldn't killer tunnel when they can? What do they actually get if they don't tunnel? More BP? No. Aura? No. Regression? No. But they can quickly eliminate 1 target forcing the game inti 1v3 drastically reducing repairing and alturistic effeciency. If you have one survivor on hook, one chased and two on gens… one can still do gen and second goes for save. In 3v1 there is always momentum of no one able to do gens. We never complain about gens. If team spreads at gens they can pop three gens together in single chase if the chased survivor plays safe or well. If you are left in scenario where you have 2 gens left and only 1-2 hooks, there is no reason to hook everyone first, is it? Give killers rewards for fresh hooks. Fe. that every fresh hook increase required amount of charges to repair gen by 2, some aura reveal and extra BP and those who don't desperately want to tunnel someone out may adjust their playstyle, but untill then there is no incentive not to tunnel and tunneling will be efficient way, same as spreading at multiple gens.
If by "we" you mean killer mains, killer mains very much complain about gens. "Genrushing," even when that is just survivors splitting gen pressure, is probably the most common complaint I see alongside maybe pallet density. This thread didn't even start out making the main subject about tunneling but simply the terrible survivor experience right now. On the topic of tunneling, everyone knows there is a reason killers tunnel, it wouldn't be so prevalent if there wasn't. Killers tunnel because it's the easiest and most efficient way to win. Nobody is expecting every killer to 8 hook before killing anyone, but when every other game is a hard tunnel from 5 gens it's an issue. I also don't think anyone who has a relatively balanced view of the game thinks that trying to get someone out at 2 gens is a problem, that just makes sense as it might be the only way a killer can win at that point.
What we need is a system that both punishes hard tunneling and rewards spreading hooks, it wouldn't work any other way (unless hard tunneling was punished and the game was entirely rebalanced around that). If there are just rewards for spreading hooks, it would still mean tunneling is a viable option, and honestly unless the rewards were insane it would probably still be the easiest way to win, and as it is by hard tunneling a survivor you win infinitely more than you lose, which isn't a healthy balance. If tunneling is punished, then the outlier playstyle that gets so many wins is suboptimal, and if spreading hooks is rewarded, then killers wouldn't feel the need to tunnel.
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@pidgeon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111050#Comment_4111050
This, also I just feel like turrets deserve a nerf as a whole as currently if youre a competent survivor its incredibly easy to get xeno out of power. Turret nerfs such as turrets cannot burn the xenomorph on a different elevation, no detection while Xeno is undetectable, would be a nice place to start
I think the two changes I would make that would probably put Xeno in a good spot are 1. the turrets don't detect Xeno when Undetectable, at the very least when out of the tunnels, and 2. make the turret range decrease addon at least partial if not fully basekit
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I think making the turret's detection not work while the Xenomorph is Undetectable would be a great change that would give Xeno players the ability to actually use stealth builds, and I think maybe making a couple addons at least partial basekit would be good for the killer. I'm unsure about anything else though, I think (balance aside because we would have no way of knowing, especially without specifics) the facehugger idea sounds pretty cool, although it would make the killer's counterplay even more difficult to learn for new players and moreso I don't think the devs would make such a massive change. I also feel like while a bit on the weak side, he usually sits around a mid to low B- tier with people, so I don't think Xeno is all that weak. There are definitely a couple buffs they could give Xeno, but I don't think the killer needs a massive change.
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Some of these ideas are pretty interesting and viable, like for example your Boon: Illumination buff, or the Better Together and Visionary changes that I feel like a lot of people have wanted. But some of these changes feel rather unnecessary. For example, Finesse is decently strong, but it's nowhere near meta and doesn't need a nerf. Or Up the Ante's change would basically make it useless for anything but farming things like purple flashlights at the exit gate.
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Well I got another two survivor cheaters, just kept speeding up mid chase over and over again. I clipped some of the game before I DC'd, anybody know how to get an offender's ID for the support ticket report?
Edit: apparently you just use their usernames if theyre epic games, which I've been doing anyway
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Might be a coincidence, but I encountered a Spirit-Cheater a few weeks ago (someone well-known, because they are streaming usually). Might have also been a Bot, but it was very obvious since the Spirit always beelined to the Survivors without fail.
Then encountered three Cheaters in total yesterday. 2 Survivors and 1 Killer. The Survivors were obviously cheating (one of them was outside the map at some point and the other one was a P67 Feng with Level 2 Lithe as the only Perk…). And the Killer was a Freddy who had increased Movement Speed and Attack recovery, but they tried to mask it with their Perks (STBFL, Batteries Included, Rapid Brutality…). But was way too obvious, at least for an experienced DBD-player.
But this could just be a coincidence, today I did not encounter any Cheater.
I think I encountered the same person, my friend said he streams his cheats to advertise them. I have clips of the Spirit going mach 12 while carrying survivors, having zero hit cooldowns, and instantly breaking pallets
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4111020#Comment_4111020
This is basically the objectives of the anti-tunnel system PTB but it got immediately canceled over temper tantrums. Pretty sad we could have had a much better game state by now.
yeah I mean I think most reasonable people think that at least some of that PTB should have stayed, although it never should have stayed in the game as is, as it was too harsh on what was considered tunneling and there wasn't much compensation to make up for it for the killers
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@pidgeon said:
Survivor is really fun as of late imo, I've been running Overcome, Finesse, Five Moves Ahead, and Wide Open Throttle. The build is a pretty simple and fun chase build, I would also recommend playing with friends if you have any as its a lot more fun being able to talk whilst playing. Aside from all that I don't find tunneling to be a huge deal as long as its not at 5 gens.
I agree that tunneling at 2 or 3 gens is not a huge deal, at that point it's really nothing personal, the killer just needs someone out of the game to have a chance to win. But tunneling at 5 has become more and more common, and it's the easiest and cheesiest way to win almost every game unless you're up against a decently equipped SWF. Also, I do play with friends sometimes which is honestly the only reason I play survivor at all anymore, but most people don't have friends available to play 24/7, and the majority of the playerbase is solo queue
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@Dreigonix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110856#Comment_4110856
Agreed with most of this, but the initial framing is flawed. To paraphrase zuhkashi:
The survivor team has to repair five gens, open the gates, and escape while racing the killer's hook progress.
The killer has to find survivors, win chases, carry survivors, hook survivors, protect gens, manage map pressure, predict where survivors will rotate, keep track of hook states, prevent resets, watch for flashlights, sabos, and body-blocks which can all cause a minutes-long play to have been entirely wasted, and somehow be in multiple places at once, while effectively racing a 90-second-maximum clock for each gen with a single survivor on it. Note that there is only one killer doing their objectives and four survivors doing the survivor team's objectives.
I think this oversimplifies survivor objectives in comparison to an artificially elongated description of killer roles. For example if I say this:
The killer has to down and hook survivors, and kill them before they finish all generators and escape.
The survivor team has to find generators, repair them possibly twice or even thrice over due to slowdown perks, make sure not to create a 3 gen or break the 3 gen if the killer is holding one, try not to get tunneled or help a teammate who is getting tunneled, make sure that they don't wait too long to pick up a hooked or downed teammate to avoid a snowball, similarly heal/reset enough to avoid a snowball but also not take too much time away from gens, have decent chases but also not chase near gens being repaired so enough gen repair can be done during those chases, get on most likely both gates because there's a good chance you'll need both or someone will get kicked off their gate, deciding depending on the killer whether to save a hooked teammate at the end of the game, and both that final save and the entire game require you to coordinate with your team which is especially hard to do in solo queue and the killer straight up doesn't have to do.
Basically the short description is a bullet point that you'd give a friend when trying to explain what DBD is and what the goal of each side is. The long description is a list of all the things the role needs to be aware of or often encounters. The two can't be compared.
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@BloodBehemoth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110770#Comment_4110770
There are 2 possible solutions, and one of them was almost unanimously hated: 9.2.0. The other solution would be to flatten S-tier into A-tier and heavily buff D-tier and C-tier killers to compensate. Sadly I would expect BHVR to do the first half of the latter and call it a day. What's next? Will A-tier be too strong with these strategies as well? Should we flatten everyone into B-tier? C-tier?
Even if BHVR went through all that effort, tunnelers gonna tunnel, even if 9.2.0 went live. Free will is OP, so what is the solution? Should be ban players who tunnel, slug, or camp?
The crazy thing is, I think 9.2.0 had a lot of good ideas, they just didn't give killers anything worthy in compensation, and for that, it never even made it to the PTB.
I don't think those are the only possible solutions, nor do I think they are mutually exclusive. I think there are definitely other ways to go about anti-tunneling than 9.2.0 PTB, such as I believe it was Plat By Daylight's (YouTube) radical idea of making hooks cumulative. I also think that either way S tier killers need to be nerfed and C and especially D tier killers need to be buffed, and having an anti-tunnel system would make it easier to find the balance. I agree that 9.2.0 PTB had some good ideas but went too far in some areas and lacked meaningful compensation for killer. I know that a lot of people have suggested things such as changing the gen kick bonus after hooking to being a mini Pain Res so that weaker killers would be able to make use of it better, and I believe a lot of the extreme penalties came in if someone died within 6 hooks (I might be misremembering) and that definitely could have been reduced to 5.
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Considering I and at least one other member on the forums also made a similar post in the last couple days (probably because of the extremely lukewarm Thrill nerf in the upcoming patch) it seems like a lot of the community is on the same page. Cleansing should be made a bit longer, and progress should regress like generators (so that screams don't cancel totem progress, but killers can still push survivors off a hex being cleansed in front of them while also giving teammates a chance to get back on and retain some progress)
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@BloodBehemoth said:
Survivor activity HUD, anti-tunnel, anti-camp, +10 seconds hook timer, pallet density, and somehow survivor is AT THEIR WEAKEST EVER. Whatever y'all are on, gimme some, because whatever it is, it is STRONG.
Survivor is not "at their weakest" not even close. Your teammates are worse than ever, because BHVR is holding their hand more than ever. Running most of the killer roster for multiple gens is not very difficult. S-tier killers? Sure, but outside of that, that says more about YOU than it does about the balance of the game.
Nevermind that in the past week, I've had more games with survivors ragequitting at 5 gens than without.
This post wasn't even about who's weaker or stronger or even if survivors are at their weakest ever, it was about how terrible the experience is. I don't know if you were trying to respond to @cammoking123's comment but I don't think I ever said survivor is at its weakest, I just think the survivor experience right now is probably the worst I've had in 5 years. It's similar to all the "killer anxiety" discussions going around, it doesn't have to be an "us vs them"
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@Elan said:
Would still be insanely weak. He needs more that that.
To be in a balanced spot, yeah probably. But these are super easy buffs to implement that would at the very least take him out of D tier, they would probably put him high C tier if I had to guess. It's a start
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110751#Comment_4110751
Compare his projectile to Jason. Massive hitbox, long cooldown, easy to dodge, limited range, mediocre grab option, mediocre stealth and I can carry on.
While I agree with you to some extent, I just don't think we should be using Jason as comparison to justify massive buffs to Springtrap. Springtrap could use some changes, some of which would be small buffs that are really just QoL like my suggestion, and others that could make the door/camera system an actual factor in his kit rather than something that can be completely ignored. Springtrap is in a decently balanced spot right now, Jason just has a bloated kit and makes every other projectile killer feel pointless. Jason needs more changes than Springtrap does
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@Elan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/471429/solo-survivor-is-unplayable
I'm sorry, but terrible teammates are not issue of the game. Different topic is that new players are matched with 1000hrs killers who see them as weak link and tunnel them out. That's not really fun for them, but it's more of poor beginner-friendly protection rather than whole solo team issues. I have quite decent teams and most of the loses are to poor loops or poor effieciency. In the end, you don't have to be really good in chases as survivor neither have extraordinary perceptions, you only need to stick to gens and do them as quickly as possible. When you spread so everyone does their own gen, it's a high chance you gonna do well even if people don't last long enough in chase. And complaining about pain res + dms when you can just let of the gen for moment is not reasonable.
Tunneling is by far the most popular and effective killer strategy. The most effective way to counter tunneling is genrushing, but simply spreading gen pressure, especially in solo queue, is not enough to counter a tunneling S tier killer. That isn't even actual genrushing, that's just being efficient, but if you actually genrush then it feels terrible and unfun for killers and they get frustrated in turn.
And Pain Res + DMS is not just a powerful combo because Pain Res kicks you off, it's also powerful because the window for DMS to trigger is so long that especially on a mobility killer (of which most are at least A tier) even if you let go to avoid DMS, the killer can immediately push you off the gen and block it for over half a minute. Yes some of these people just give up too early and too easily, but when tons of people start doing that there is a reason for that, and that's that they have experienced the same thing over and over and are done dealing with it. Tunneling is a problem, and if the only solution to the problem right now is a strat that is unfun to the other side then it's an even bigger issue.
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idk why the devs making a decision catering to streamers paying too much attention to their chat has developed into a survivor main "us vs them" issue. like what, we didn't want this either
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@Dreigonix said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110702#Comment_4110702
I agree that tunneling is a problem— but keep in mind, killers tunnel because there is physically not enough time to hook everyone before the gens fly. The tunneling problem is downstream of the gen-speed problem. Punishing killers for tunneling is like punishing a starving mother for stealing a loaf of bread; you're not solving the root of the problem.
This post is about hard tunneling from the beginning of the game, simply tunneling to get someone out of the game at 2 or even 3 gens isn't the focus, and no killer should be expected to 8 hook before killing anyone every game. Sometimes even when not planning to hard tunnel going into the game, it goes poorly (whether it's because your killer is weak, the survivors are good/are using extremely meta builds, bad map, etc) and you end up needing to tunnel out one of the only—or sometimes the only—survivor you've managed to hook so far. But honestly, when I'm playing a strong A tier+ killer, I rarely encounter this scenario, even in the tougher games I usually have enough leeway to get an extra hook or maybe two before needing to get someone out of the game. I encounter that issue far more on weaker killers, and ironically tunneling is harder therefore weaker on weak killers and stronger on strong killers.
I think if there was actually a system in place for tunneling, it would actually have the side effect of technically "nerfing" strong killers, therefore slightly putting them closer to weaker ones, and also making it easier to balance killers and give weaker killers more strength without having to worry too much about unwanted side effects. It would also make it easier to balance things like gen rushing, as right now it's simply the most effective counter to tunneling (finish the gens before the survivor dies).
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@cammoking123 said:
Survivors are at the weakest they've ever been. They're just fodder now. All these strong perks that people talk about survivors having are mostly situational or just have dozens of drawbacks like STB. Decisive strike is basically a troll perk at this point. People go out of their way to get value from it. Doing dumb crap like jumping in a locker is the only way most people get value from DS these days. And don't get me started on the useless pallet density update. Most of the pallets are so weak that the killer can just walk right by them if he respects. The meat factory is basically the only map in the game with decent pallet placement.
I don't think survivors are completely fodder now, and I do think pallet density can feel awful on killer, but I do think that the reason why survivor feels so incredibly weak right now is because the amount of tunneling has gone up because recently it's become even more efficient. Perks like DS and OTR have been severely nerfed, and soon the issue is going to get worse because the duration of unhook protections is going to be reduced (and elusive for just 10s is going to do nothing against a camping killer or a mobility killer that darts back to hook). Nerfing DS and OTR would have been a good decision if there was actually a system to replace them, especially a system that more accurately punishes tunneling rather than any killer that just downs the wrong survivor (often because they shove themselves in the killer's face). But no such system has been added and we have no idea if such a system will be coming, especially considering BHVR's last attempt was canned.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110656#Comment_4110656
No - the only players who feel this way are players who only play survivor side. If you would try playing killer side as well, you would realize that the balance really hasn’t changed that much.
I don't think either of you are entirely right or wrong. Over the decade of DBD's lifespan, the general trend up until the last couple years has been survivor power going down, but it's important to recognize that that's because survivors were just too strong in the beginning. If talking about the last couple years, yeah, the balance probably hasn't changed a ton, I think this mentality of survivors being nerfed into oblivion is emerging more right now because the upcoming update favors killer players with massive nerfs to multiple survivor meta perks, and I think issues such as hard tunneling have become more prominent since anti-tunnel perks got nerfed
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@KatsuhxP said:
Ah interesting, I saw a variation a while ago of that. The william had powerstruggle, I walked against a already dropped palette accidently and he dropped it on me again lol xD
Classic DBD bug moment lmao
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110579#Comment_4110579
I think so too, and you can see it with perks like Light-Footed as well, its icon will light up while holding the shift key (even if you're not running or moving at all) and turns off when you're not pressing it
Yep, same with Fixated, you'll get 20% haste when you're not holding shift even when you're on a generator lmao
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110579#Comment_4110579
probably this and other exhaustion perks.
I kinda hoped they would have this already on their radar for the code foundation rework but if this issue is just now being forwarded to the Team then chances are its been implemented there just how it is now
Well even if that's the case, if they're still in the process of rewriting the code they still have time to adjust it. I assume they're rewriting the code to be more flexible, as a lot of the limits they've hit in the past decade were self inflicted with their own code
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@SpyUA said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110609#Comment_4110609
Lots of new players play killer because either they want to play someone like Jason or they don't have friends to play with, the "too high learning curve" has nothing to do with this, killers do require probably as much and on some killers even more skill then on survivor side so there's a lot to learn on both sides.
For new players specifically, survivor is infinitely harder. It isn't about skill, both sides need a lot of skill to play well, but on the survivor side way more knowledge is needed. On killer the only things you need to learn about survivors are what perks to look out for, while on survivor you need to do the same with killer perks, but also all of their unique addons and powers. That's why a lot of the time, especially with more complex or not very straightforward killers, new killer players can easily stomp new survivor players in most matches for quite a while.
As for the solution, for new survivors who don't have friends to play with, it would be extremely helpful if 1. more addons and perks appeared in the upper right, revealing themselves to players, 2. these addons and perks were revealed to all players, and 3. they show up in the tab menu so that survivors can take the time to read perks and addons they don't understand. This would be a massive help to new players so they don't have to wait until after they've already been destroyed by something they don't understand to actually learn what was going on, and it would also help even out solo queue and SWFs.
As for trying to help a friend in a SWF so that they don't get tunneled every game, while I don't have anybody I play with that is new to the game, I do have a couple who are pretty bad at survivor. I'd suggest trying to get them to unlock DS as soon as possible (and also Windows or Five Moves Ahead to help them find resources, along with Lithe since it's simple to use), and run perks like Shoulder, WGLF, Background Player (with a flashlight), Babysitter, BT, and Reassurance. Usually since I'm the most experienced in my friend group so I'm the only one who can afford to run such a build, I just run Shoulder, WGLF, Background, and either Reassurance or DS so I myself don't get tunneled, but with 3 experienced players you should be able to run at least one of each.
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I play Springtrap and Ghostface, so I just went for the middle. Ghostface is sometimes unplayable at high MMR T_T
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@MOH707 said:
Feedback on the Recent Wesker Changes
Dear Dead by Daylight Development Team,
I would like to respectfully share some feedback regarding the recent changes to Albert Wesker – The Mastermind.
First, I completely understand that balancing a Killer is a complicated process. I appreciate the work the development team puts into maintaining a fair and enjoyable experience for both Killers and Survivors. My intention with this feedback is not to criticize the developers, but rather to explain how the recent changes have affected Wesker’s gameplay from the perspective of a player who enjoys playing him.
Wesker has always been a very unique Killer because of his speed, mobility, and the amount of skill and precision required to use his power effectively. These characteristics are a major reason why many players enjoy him.
However, after the most recent changes, I feel that his gameplay has become noticeably more difficult, particularly when trying to use certain advanced techniques during chases.
One of the main concerns I would like to highlight is Hug Tech.
I understand that Hug Tech has been a topic of discussion regarding Wesker’s balance. However, after the recent changes, performing it consistently now requires extremely precise positioning and timing. In real matches, this can make the technique feel unnecessarily difficult to perform, even for players who have spent a significant amount of time learning Wesker.
My question is: Could the development team reconsider how difficult Hug Tech has become to perform?
I am not asking for Wesker to become overpowered, nor am I asking for mechanics that would make him unfair to Survivors. I simply hope there can be a balanced solution that preserves some of the skill expression and creativity that made Wesker so enjoyable.
I believe there may be a middle ground where Wesker remains balanced while experienced players can still make use of his advanced mechanics through skill and practice.
The recent changes have also made it feel harder to maintain the fast-paced and mobile playstyle that originally made Wesker so enjoyable. I would really appreciate it if the team could review his current state and consider whether some aspects of his previous gameplay could be restored or adjusted.
I sincerely hope you will reconsider the recent changes to Wesker and take another look at the current difficulty of Hug Tech.
Thank you for taking the time to read my feedback and for continuing to improve Dead by Daylight. I appreciate the effort that goes into balancing the game, and I hope this feedback can contribute to finding a solution that is enjoyable and fair for both sides.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Sincerely,
A Wesker PlayerEven if it's a bit harder to do than before, if they bring back Wesker hug techs as long as the more experienced players can do it the slight difficulty increase makes no difference, the killer has been buffed the same amount. Also, if Wesker's hug tech returned, I think a lot of people would argue it's unfair that his returns while Blight's does not, and I don't think anyone wants to see Blight buffed.
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Personally I think some iteration of blocking players is a good idea especially for the purposes of avoiding getting a second match with a cheater you just went up against or a throwing teammate, and also a lot of blocks on a player combined with reports may make it easier for the devs to moderate. However, I don't think it should be limited to one side (because killers cheat too) and I think showing the amount of blocks to the pre-game lobby is a bad idea. There will likely be a lot of people who take things to the extreme and dodge every lobby with even one player with a couple blocks, and it would just make queue times way longer.
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@CrimsonMothKing said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4110505#Comment_4110505
That's the issue unfortunately.
Make it too bright, and it doesn't hinder people anymore.
Make it too quiet, Dredge's stealth drops significantly.Not much accessibility wise can happen to a power that is "overwhelming darkness" without it providing some kind of comp advantage.
Maybe they could add an option to lower the game's overall volume when Nightfall is active? I think how loud it is is part of the reason it's so overstimulating for some people, and if the volume can be lowered automatically during Nightfall it might help but also not give them advantage because the audio mix would be the same.