thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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1) Developers are actually not allowed to disable party chat for their games on Xbox. IIRC only 1 or 2 games have ever been able to do this, one was a COD game I forget what the other was. But both were high end AAA games where the developers had a lot of sway over MS and therefore were given special permissions. Also, it was removed it later games so it's not even relevant now.
2) Well if we are playing on PC and all third party apps are disabled, lemme just use my phone to start up a chat and OOF there goes the neighborhood. But seriously, this is what people would resort to and you have absolutely no way to monitor this.
3) It's not cheating. It's unfair, yes, but not cheating. From my experience on Xbox at high ranks, literally every game is SWF. Mostly 2 man, but also 3 or 4 man. It is very rare to get 4 solo's at high ranks on Xbox. How do you beat this? Well you play like an absolute dick. Yep, just play like a dick. Ignore any aspect of fun, take every advantage you can, do anything in your power to win. Tunnel, camp, slug, OP add-ons, whatever. Sucks but it does work. I've done it and have had it done to me and my SWF groups. You can't play fair against SWF. They may curse you out but that's how you beat them.
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@NuclearBurrito Yea I didn't read the whole thread, just the OP and the Saireks comment actually.
My point with Iron Will/Spine Chill is that there is really nothing wrong with using a perk to counter a killer, yet people say "that's not a counter".
First, IW/SC are both good perks against EVERY killer, so there is no reason to say "why should I have to run THESE perks" when you get a lot of value from them no matter what.
Second, IW/SC counter Spirit hard. VERY HARD. So hard in fact that if you suck at playing against Spirit they will automatically bump you up to "not suck at playing against Spirit". It's such a drastic counter that you seriously can't just ignore their impact versus her. Just Iron Will will immediately make you so much harder to track for Spirits, even if you're not even that good.
Third, Calm Spirit. No one ever runs this perk because it's only major value is against a Doc. But guess what? It completely destroys him. Doc's whole shtick is that he is impossible to stealth as his power is made to find you super easy. Take that away from him and it completely changes how you play against this killer. I personally HATE Doc and therefore Calm Spirit is one of my favorite perks. I had been running it for a while, SPECIFICALLY TO COUNTER DOCS, and only recently took it off because I just haven't been seeing as many of them lately. But every time I do, I curse out the game because I don't have Calm Spirit on. But that's not the game's fault, that's my fault for not taking the extra precaution. Now I'm stuck having to try harder to counter this killer. Same goes for Spirit. You will need to work more for it if you don't run IW/SC, so if you really don't want that just equip those perks and you're set.
So the whole idea of "you shouldn't need perks to counter a killer" is bull #########. If you don't like a certain killer, you can easily equip perks to counter them. And when those perks are useful against other killers (or meta in the case of IW) then there is no excuse to not use them honestly. If you don't then you are just being stubborn.
PS. And yes I've seen that video before. I'm actually OG Smash Melee player. M2K got his start at my tournaments and I actually know him personally, though we haven't really spoken to or seen each other in years. I know a lot of the OG players and I am part of the reason the Smash community is where it is today because I was one of the biggest monthly tournaments on east coast. Hell I invented a lot of Fox's tech. Short hop double laser. Multi-shine. Shine grabs. Shine upsmash. No one did that until I started to do it, and even then no one did it because it was deemed flashy and unnecessary (this was many years ago before Brawl even came out, the average skill of players was no where to the point it is now, and because of that none of these techniques were useful because you just didn't need them). If you don't believe me ask around the Smash community about me. New players won't know me, but anyone that is OG like M2k will know exactly who I am. I was also a member of the back room and part of the elite, I helped draft Melee community rules and all that. I left the community shortly after Brawl because that game is just total ass. I'm actually very happy that Melee had a revival, and Ultimate looks very promising for the future of Smash.
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@DaS_only said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/594949#Comment_594949
I can't even run 60 fps on my laptop. And I don't have any disadvantage with that, cuz it's not csgo or rainbow six siege.
It does cause a disadvantage in some instances, specifically if you play killer. Also you have the option to adjust your FPS. We don't, we are just locked to whatever FPS the devs set the game to.
@Rasinbran said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/594949#Comment_594949
If you are that desperate to use a mouse and keyboard get a gaming computer :)
Oh yes, let me just open my fat wallet and dump $2000 on a new computer, then another $80 on DBD with all the DLC, then spend another 2k hours to get all the perks and stuff back to where I'm at now JUST to be able to use a mouse. Makes total sense why didn't I think of that.
The feature is there on Xbox, I shouldn't have to do anything except ask BHVR to enable it.
And yes I said MOUSE. Not mouse and keyboard. Keyboard sucks for movement, I actually plan to use a mouse for aim and a controller for movement. It is far superior to m/kb.
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@Sairek "people hate facing against Spirit for a specific reason"
Yes. And that reason is they suck at mind games. They have little to no prediction skills and they act predictably. They lack any sort of creativity when it comes to figuring out what their opponent will do and what their opponent expects they will do. When the killer tries to do a red stain mind game on these players, they aren't predicting the killer as much as they are just reacting to the red stain.
If I had to give it a number, I'd say 9 out of 10 survivors simply suck at mind games. Thus, 90% of survivors are easy prey for a good Spirit that can actually mind game and predict their opponent. But that 10% of survivors that don't suck at mind games can actually beat a Spirit player. And no it's not me messing up, it's them doing something that outplays me. They do a mind game, or predict my mind game, which messes me up. It's not me messing up on my own, they had influenced it.
@NuclearBurrito Another aspect of mind games you missed is called "conditioning". This is where you purposely act in some manner for a few of the initial interactions, then do something completely different once the opponent is "conditioned" to react a certain way. A good example of this is respecting pallets. If you chase someone and respect say, the first 2 pallets they loop very hard, they will be conditioned to expect you to respect pallets in the future. So then when you start to disrespect pallets, you get free hits because they don't expect it. And even if they realize you will disrespect pallets, because they have been conditioned like a Pavlovian dog, they will subconsciously expect this and thus continue to react as if you will respect the pallet. Once conditioned, it is VERY hard to break the pattern even if you are aware of the change.
If you want a good example of this look no further than a Japanese Street Fighter player named Tokido. He will literally throw the first match to condition his opponent, then completely demolish them the next 2 because they have been conditioned to react in a way he can seriously punish. It's not easy to break down everything he does, but a good example is that he will always do a wake-up dragon punch when knocked down. This conditions the opponent to block then immediately start a combo to punish it. However, once he stops this, the opponent will block and then throw out the combo anyway, which he then blocks himself and does a super damage counter combo.
Any killer can condition their opponent(s) to react a certain way, and Spirit is no exception. However in the case of Spirit, she is more effective at conditioning because she has more options for it than most other killers do. Such as the stand still mind game. No other killer has that option available to them, so while it might seem like a blind guess it's actually not. It's the killer setting up a scenario that will condition you to react in a certain way. There are players that do not fall for this at all, and that's because these players understand what the Spirit is actually trying to do and know they can call her bluff by walking away from her and the loop. If she was faking, now she will either stop and follow or start to phase walk (which you can predict because you won't see her start to walk), giving you a chance to run to the next loop or maybe even stealth her depending on what tile it is. If she wasn't faking, well there is a chance she won't expect you to walk away like that and thus won't land the hit out of phase walk. The biggest trick here for survivors is to NOT ALWAYS DO THE SAME THING! That's how you get conditioned. It's hard but you need to actively do something different every time she tries to do this mind game. Doing this will stop the conditioning and make it harder for her to predict you, meaning she is more likely to guess wrong on her end.
I honestly feel that people who say Spirit has no counter play just have no ability to mind game themselves. They are pure reactionary players, and then they complain because they have nothing to react to, as @Sairek is. You're not SUPPOSED to have something to react to, your supposed to do something creative and unexpected to avoid this stuff. I main Spirit and I honestly don't have a problem mind gaming her because I know what she is trying to do, what she sees when she is doing it, and I know how to avoid being conditioned to react a certain way each time. I also use Iron Will and Spine Chill, and I honestly don't see why it's a problem that you could use perks to counter her to make up a lack of mind game skill, ESPECIALLY when those perks counter her so hard it's like night and day.
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No to crossplay, until the devs enable m/kb support on consoles and optimize the game to run at a consistent 60fps for consoles.
BTW, Xbox allows full native m/kb support for games now. It's just that developers need to enable this feature for their games.
BHVR wouldn't even need to create a new system here, they just enable it as it is enabled on PC. Done.
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Overcharge was never a very good perk. It's dependent on survivors being bad at skill checks, and high level survivors are not bad at skill checks. The only time I even remotely have trouble hitting OC skill check is when Unnerving Presence is also active. Even then it's still pretty easy to hit.
PGTW is the superior gen-kick perk. It regresses the gen 25%, or 20s at base, which is a huge blow to survivors. IMO it's better and more reliable than Ruin, it just requires way more skill because you need to both catch survivors quickly and know what gens need kicking.
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No because part of the reason to use NM is to combo it with perks like Resil or DH to be able to use them from the start of the game. If you require them to get hit it just makes it so you have to go find the killer, get chased and hit, then ESCAPE from that chase to be able to get benefit from NM. And the moment the killer sees the Broken status they will know you have NM anyway, so this change would ultimately just make NM worse.
NM actually needs this:
1) BP earnings boost in all categories, similar to Distressing for killers. This is NOT a BBQ/WGLF type of boost, you can't earn more than 8k per category. You simply earn BP at twice the rate. Fitting since you in theory have half the amount of damage states you would normally. It also makes sense as a David King perk because he has WGLF, so he becomes the defacto BP booster survivor.
2) Always fast vault when you run through a window. This would give NM players something valuable in a chase and make them a bit harder to catch. It'd let them do some loops that other survivors simply can't. Considering you are one shot the whole time, this sort of thing is fair.
3) Remove injured music. It's just obnoxious when you know you are injured all the time.
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Suzie players are toxic AF.
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Are you sure that it's not just a visual bug and you are actually recovering?
I play on Xbox and did not see anything like this in the 6 or so games I played tonight with a 4 man. None of them mentioned it either. We got mostly Freddy too.
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@[Deleted User] said:
She needs to be nerfed to LF level, she is just op.
Luck is not good for skill you know.
Dude you are getting to Sarcastaball levels of sarcasm here. I'm honestly having a hard time telling what is something you really mean and what is something you say just to get a rise out of others.
xD
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Borrowed Time (Bill) is the best anti-camping perk. It will give the person you save an extra hit if you save inside the killer's terror radius (which they have to Mend, but that's not a big deal). However be aware that some killers, like Ghostface or Pig, can counter BT by using their stealth ability. You will have to bait them into coming out of stealth to use BT. But it will give the person you save a chance to run away. More than likely the killer will tunnel them, so you may need to take a hit or something to help them get away.
Decisive Strike (Laurie) is the anti-tunnel perk. For X seconds after being unhooked, if the killer picks you up again you will get a skill check (60s at tier 3). Hit this skill check and the killer will drop you as if you wiggled free/flashlight saved/pallet saved. This will let you start another chase which can waste more of their time. Sometimes they may opt to just let you go because it will be too much of a time sink to chase you.
Deliverance (Adam) is a good anti-camp perk also. You will need to make a safe hook rescue before you can use it (which may be tricky if the killer is camping that survivor) but it will let you jump off the hook during phase 1 guaranteed. However you will be in the Broken state, which means you can't be healed fully until the timer runs out (60s at tier 3).
Boil Over (Kate) can make it harder for the killer to hook you. Your wiggling has a greater effect while they carry you and nearby hook auras are made invisible. If other survivors take hits (ie. body block) while you are being carried it increases the chance you will wiggle free.
Breakdown (Jeff) can forces a killer to carry you to a different hook if they down you after you get saved. When you get saved, the hook will be auto-sabotaged and the killer's aura will be shown to you for 6s. This is not super effective but it can act as a deterrent sometimes, making the killer take a chase on someone else and giving another survivor the chance to heal you up off the ground.
Saboteur (Jake) can work like both of the above perks combined, however it's generally a better idea to take some other perk and instead use a toolbox to sabotage hooks. You want to 99% them, meaning you don't finish the action and stop just before the bar fills completely. Do that to 3 hooks in an area, preferably a corner of the map. Then when the killer chases you, run to this corner and complete the sabo on all the hooks, then run as far into the corner as you can. If done correctly, it will be impossible for the killer to hook you before you wiggle free. Just be aware this strategy is more risky and requires planning ahead. If you are in a group communicate which hooks are sabo'd so that if you are being carried to one of these 99'd hooks your friend can run up and finish the sabo before the killer uses that hook on you. If you attempt this strategy, it is recommended you bring Unbreakable (Bill) so that you can revive yourself as the killer may opt to just leave you on the floor (ie. slug).
You can also use a medkit (preferably white because they are expendable) with a Anti-Haemorrhagic Syringe (ie. pink needle) to save friends that may be getting tunneled by a killer. Basically what you do is follow your friend as the killer chases them, and be careful not to get chased/hit yourself. The moment the killer downs them, run up and use the needle. IDK what your keys are set to, but you start the healing action then press the Activate Ability button to use the needle (I suggest to play a Kill Your Friends game to practice using it so you know what buttons to press). Your friend will be instantly healed to full and this will give them a chance to get away, or make the killer waste more time chasing them. You can also use the Styptic Agent (ie. purple bottle), but this will only heal them to the injured state instantly and is less effective. However, be aware this is a very risky move that requires good timing and fat balls to pull off. Also, it will almost definitely piss off the killer, so there is a good chance you will become their new target. You ideally want to do it without getting hit, but sometimes you need to take a hit to be able to run in and do it. Just be ready to run because if you go down quickly it will be a waste of an item.
The last thing you can use is Flashlights. Any will do, the purple one is the best but not by much. If you bring it into the trial, double batteries or battery + Low Amp Filament (in that order, do not put the filament first) will give you the most use. If you are having trouble landing the blind use bulb add-ons (white, yellow, or green, not pink because it uses the flashlight faster). You may want to go into a Kill Your Friends game and practice using the flashlight to blind. You want to time it so that you start the blind right when the killer first lifts the survivor onto their shoulder (they do this followed by a little "adjustment"). If done correctly, you will blind the killer and they will drop your friend. This is one of the best anti-tunnel tactics but it is very high skill. I recommend using all the stuff I mention above first.
And of course you can combine these tactics together however you wish. If you are in a group, it will be a good idea to have each person do something different (though you may all want to share certain perks like BT or DS) just so that way you have multiple options available during the game in case you need them.
Good luck, and yea it sucks but at the end of the day camping/tunnel are not very effective strategies for killers. As you get better at the game it generally becomes easier to counter these tactics, however they are still problems at high ranks. It's just there killers do it more tactically and purposefully, so you will be require to do all this stuff near perfectly for it to succeed.
Also just keep in mind that you will die as survivor. A lot. Even the best survivors die often, if only less often than less experienced survivors. Things happen you just gotta let it go and move on to the next game. Don't let it bother you, it's just part of the game.
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José
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I agree, especially about blocks. Hemorrhage and Blindness are completely worthless. Why they don't redesign these status effects is beyond me.
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@ShyN3ko said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593512#Comment_593512
But STBFL doesnt reduce the attack cooldown, but Sloppy Butcher works(old patch).
In the text are the same words.
This is why Im confused.
Right but you can still get STBFL tokens with Ambush prior to patch correct? I'm saying you might not now.
I honestly think it's nothing to worry about. Probably had something to do with MOM or Infectious Fright, so if it's the latter it's a super slight nerf (but at the same time you have no TR during ambush so it wouldn't work anyway).
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Those both say successful attacks, not basic attacks.
I'd imagine that STBFL might not work with ambush anymore, but I'm pretty sure Sloppy and anything Exposed should still work. I haven't tried yet so I can't be sure.
The only perks that specify "basic attack" are Dark Devotion, Infectious Fright, and MOM AFAIK.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593288#Comment_593288
Survivors can still do that with multiple totems. You are severely underestimating how difficult it would be to both protect the Totem you want and keep the gens from popping, especially when there are suddenly a ton of other Totems Survivors can do to strip your abilities away one by one. Oh no, Haunted Grounds popped? Congrats, you get maybe one Hook off that while the others just wait for Haunted Grounds to expire. If it is "near impossible" for them to get the important ones, it will be "very easy" for them to just do gens. And if you are busy stopping them from doing gens because you realize you may have put a little too much stock in trying to defend your one Totem, it will then be "very easy" for them to nab the one Totem you are trying to protect.
I don't believe you understand how "Magical Christmas Land" your scenario is and how much it relies on bad Survivor gameplay to be even a little overpowered.
Like, honest to god question: How do you save your Totems when you are in the middle of a chase or in the middle of bringing someone to a Hook or when more than one Totem is being done?
If you know what totem is what and you know what to prioritize, you can protect it if you are willing to commit to that. Especially if you have TOTH. And especially especially if you have 3 tokens of Devour.
Again, the whole point is that killer is not to know what totems are what. If you run more than 1 then you have to protect them all equally. It's a risk. You don't get the luxury to ignore or focus on particular totems because you know what it is ahead of time. If you want that luxury, run 1 totem. Simple.
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They did. I just checked.
The sad part is I never noticed they were even different before 😥
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@[Deleted User] said:
You mean like all those bandaid perks like ruin to make up for horrible gen repair times?
Almost all killers are not viable when survivors do play optimal?
??? I don't get why you at'd me. Are you claiming there is a double standard also?
I agree that gens go too fast and I've said many times elsewhere that there needs to be a max limit to how fast they can get done. But I can also acknowledge that it's not an easy problem to solve, because anything you do to balance the game at the highest level against survivors will have exponentially negative effects on lower rank survivors, who are already punching bags for killers. I'm willing to accept that a solution won't come overnight, but I feel pretty confident that BHVR is at least working on a solution.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593166#Comment_593166
"NO ONE, including the killer, should have access to that information."
I do not agree, and your faulty comparison to chests and Skill Checks does not change that for me.
"If you give the killer that information then all it does is ensure they can keep whatever totem they want as long as they have the ability to protect it."
You can already do that as long as you have one totem. It would not suddenly become OP if you could do that while more than one Hex Totem was around.
"You're not supposed to know which is which, forcing you to protect all totems equally. If you run HG with Ruin then you need to act like all 3 are Ruin. If you are lucky, survivors get HG first. If you are unlucky, Ruin first. Otherwise you make multi-totem builds way too strong."
Not convinced at all that multi-totem builds would be too strong. I don't see why being able to protect the one you want up the most is an issue.
"I can guarantee you that if this was a thing, you could run Devour, HG, TOTH and Ruin and consistently get survivors to destroy Devour last every time."
I don't buy it. Or, to be more precise, I'm sure Hex: Devour Hope is the only thing you'll be able to defend if you focus on protecting it at all costs. Bye bye Ruin, bye bye gens.
"You can already do that as long as you have one totem. It would not suddenly become OP if you could do that while more than one Hex Totem was around."
Yes it would, because you know which totem is the important one. If survivors have to focus on 1 totem, then can get the exact totem they want to get. If they have to split their resources across multiple totems, while you know which one to protect most, then it will be near impossible for them to get the important ones. All it takes is 3 hooks and now it will be WAY harder to get totems, especially Devour because you know which one it is.
I'm not even going to address the rest. It's pretty obvious that you don't understand how valuable this information would be. If you run more than 1 totem that's a RISK you are taking. You don't deserve free information that basically negates that risk.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593194#Comment_593194
Just stop derailing and we can have a discussion, but I'm about done and don't think further discussion between us would produce any agreement on anything.
You're wedded to the nonsensical idea that survivors playstyles, like pallet-looping, were developed as a consequence of discovering how base game mechanics worked. There are mountains of evidence that can be pointed to that show the developers picked exploits that survivors were using and turned them into supported game features, with survivors actively lobbying the devs to do so(and they still do). Naming such examples just led you to pick one out and then suggest I was saying things that I wasn't.
You know exactly what you're doing and are in no position to accuse anyone else of trolling.
You have no evidence other than what you made up dude. Unless you work at BHVR you have no way to know their motivations.
I've actually studied game design, so I know what principles they are following. They created a game with certain mechanics, those mechanics interact to form dynamics, and then they tweak the game to make those dynamics more interesting and balanced. Dynamics are the natural evolution of a game's design. And yes, I could be wrong, but they DO NOT just change stuff because they feel like it or because they favor one side or the other, that is for sure. Because no developer does that. Not unless they want to purposely destroy their own product.
Until you acknowledge that your whole "double standard" bull ######### is just that, then yes there can be no agreement between us because you fail to see the bigger picture and can't accept when something on your side is legitimately and undisputably broken.
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But can you fill the shack with snares?
This is important for the memes.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592708#Comment_592708
I just can’t get the hang of Nurse because I am TERRIBLE with tracking due to the fatigue. I know I can get better with her with practice but it is discouraging to lose over and over again even when you know the survivors are not good.
I enjoy Spirit, Hag, Plague, and Pig the most currently. I’ll probably add Freddy to my rotation once I get better perks on him. Doctor is also pretty fun. I find the stalky bois to be so boring to play as even though I used to main Myers.
It's not easy. One of my best friends is a Nurse main so he took me into a game and helped me practice a bit. He also gave me the advice to not use add-ons until I got used to her power, which is something you should do. If you are constantly using add-ons you will have a harder time getting used to it.
You just have to take the L's. It will suck at first but you'll get better with practice. Honestly after the second day I had blinks down pretty good, what hurt me mostly was the little intricacies of where you can and cannot blink. Also really stealthy survivors.
@Jago said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593126#Comment_593126
No, its how the forum works. You know, you post a video / screenshot and ask for a nerf. Totally legit feedback.
Feedback?
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uWu
@Yamaoka said:
Are you related to Mr.Torgue by any chance?
Mr. Torgue: [whispering] "Real talk: the Gobbler fight is rigged! The Torgue Board of Directors made the Gobbler unbeatable so it'd eat all the contestants and get us a buncha hits on the ECHOnet. But I don't WANT YOU TO DIE CAUSE YOU'RE COOL, OH CRAP I'M NOT WHISPERING ANYMORE!"
Anyways as for the perk:
I think Head On shouldn't be an exhaustion perk but a cooldown perk. It's by far weaker than any other exhaustion perk and can rarely be used. It's way to situational to be an exhaustion perk.
THAT COMMENT HAD TOO MANY SYLLABLES! APOLOGIZE!
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I'd prefer a scary animal. Like a squirrel.
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I still don't get it. But I don't play LF so I really don't even know how it feels to play him anyway.
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There are 2 reason this wasn't bannable where Legion mend bug was...
1) Just because they equipped SB doesn't mean they were doing the bug. However, all you needed to do for mend bug was equip double knife add-ons and then play the game normally. It's a lot easier to pick out the people abusing mend bug than SB bug just by looking and the the results screen.
2) Mend bug could be used to hold the game hostage. If killer wanted to they could just never hook you, forcing either a DC or for you to let yourself go down and bleed out. SB bug doesn't allow you to hold a game hostage. This is a major difference here.
Hence why similar bugs were not bannable, but then the Asylum bug was... because it could be used to hold the game hostage. IDK whether or not the devs could check the game if you did it, but it sounds like most of the people that were banned was after some sort of video proof.
I mean, if we are going to ban for EVERY bug in the game I'm pretty sure the population would be 0 because this game is so chock full of 'em.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/593181#Comment_593181
As much as I've tried to explain, you have tried just as hard to keep derailing. Your purpose in replying is not debate.
Right and claiming imaginary double standards is SMH 🤦♂️
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592847#Comment_592847
A 75% win-rate in any competitive game is not just good, it's dominating.
Not enough though, because one person has to be given-up. It's fine when that one person having a lousy time is the killer though, just don't dare let it be a survivor.
You've deflected enough and still haven't responded on the matter of the blatant double-standards. The survivors preferred playstyle did not come about because they developed it, through practice or experiment. It came about because they persistently lobbied for it at the expense of every alternative, including the killers being able to make diverse choices.
BECAUSE THERE IS NO DOUBLE STANDARD.
You're the one saying there is then pointing to something that is blatantly broken as proof. No, it's not proof of any double standard. Face camping to body block unhook prompt is BROKEN, it's impossible to save. How is this so hard to comprehend. You have to be trolling at this point, I'm convinced.
And you say I'm deflecting when all you have done is try to justify a very clearly broken aspect of the game. Nurse is debatable. Body block unhook prompts is not. It's broken. BROKEN BROKEN BROKEN. That's why it was removed. And it's the same reason permanent hook sabo was removed. BROKEN. I'll say it again, there is no double standard. If something is clearly broken, it gets fixed. Doesn't matter if it's killer or survivor.
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Look at that. Fixed in less than 24 hours. And people say the devs don't listen or take to long to fix stuff. xD
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@DrDeepwound said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592840#Comment_592840
well props to you for understanding both sides and I take back my comments about you being survivor biased, apologies.
Thanks? I think you have me mistaken for someone else though. Unless I missed where you said I had a survivor biased.
@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592813#Comment_592813
"This isn't about using 1 Hex perk, it's about using more than 1 and knowing which is which. Unless I missed something."
But that is exactly why the comparison with the chests and the Skill Checks doesn't work. There is no way for Survivors to get that knowledge at all whereas Killers do get that knowledge by how they set up their perks. Because the Hex Perks, unlike the items in chests or the number of Skill Checks, is 100% decided by the Killers.
"Giving the player information they shouldn't have access to is OP."
The argument is that Killers should have access to that info. You saying that they shouldn't is just your argument, not fact.
"Again it's like telling survivors what item is in a chest before they search it."
No, it is not. Survivors never know what is in a chest before opening it. This is still a bad comparison.
"If killer knows which totem is which then they only need to actively defend the ones they want to keep. That means they can ignore survivors doing HG, maybe even TOTH depending on the context, whereas currently they have to treat all their totems equally and protect them all."
It's already been explained that a Survivor can deduce whether the Killer is baiting them into a trap, but you are just arbitrarily ignoring that argument.
"Basically you would make it so that a killer using HG, Ruin, Devour, and TOTH could ALWAYS make sure Devour is the last to be cleansed. ALWAYS. That shouldn't happen. If you run totem roulette then you don't get the luxury to rig the game."
If the first totem they go after is Devour, and I start chasing that person, the second person can cleanse the totem. If I choose to break chase and go after the second person, then the first person goes free. If I just spend all my time guarding that one totem, I am not accomplishing anything while the other Survivors can do gens. You saying "it shouldn't happen" is just a personal belief. One that IMO has not been properly demonstrated. Nothing about what you have been saying sounds OP.
It doesn't matter if survivors can figure it out based on your actions or not, NO ONE, including the killer, should have access to that information. It's hidden from everyone for a reason, that reason being RNG. If you give the killer that information then all it does is ensure they can keep whatever totem they want as long as they have the ability to protect it. If you run more than 1 totem at a time, that is a risk you take as killer. You're not supposed to know which is which, forcing you to protect all totems equally. If you run HG with Ruin then you need to act like all 3 are Ruin. If you are lucky, survivors get HG first. If you are unlucky, Ruin first. Otherwise you make multi-totem builds way too strong.
I can guarantee you that if this was a thing, you could run Devour, HG, TOTH and Ruin and consistently get survivors to destroy Devour last every time. That means that you will likely, consistently, get 3 tokens every time. Probably also all 5. Devour with 3 tokens is going to usually be a win if the survivors fail to destroy the totem, meaning you increase the chance a killer gets a 4k significantly just by telling them which totem is Devour. It's not supposed to work that way.
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@ArecBalrin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/591399#Comment_591399
Face-camping didn't make winning impossible, in fact survivors had a counter which if they would bother using had a 75% win-rate on-paper.
Hook-sabo did prevent the killer from winning; killers had to force a de facto draw if they could not carry anyone to the basement, by performing the much harder task(than doing gens) of slugging everyone.
LOL for real dude? Face camping makes it impossible FOR THE GUY ON THE HOOK to win. What now? Just because there is some counter tactic doesn't make the original tactic any less broken.
If you wanted to get hooks against perma-sabo run Iron Grasp and Agitation. You can see why this sort of thinking is a problem now, yes?
You are defending something that is literally game breaking, justifying it with "well the OTHER players can still escape". GTFO bro.
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@DrDeepwound said:
"Giving the player information they shouldn't have access to is OP."
Most killers agree, which is why they are against in game voice chat and SWF with Discord, totem counters etc,.... But I jest, we all know you only mean "giving killers too much info" Its totally fine for survivors to get too much info.
I agree a totem counter is OP. I also agree comms is OP, but the problem there is you can't really do anything to stop it AND on platforms such as Xbox the devs literally can't even disable it because it's a platform feature. AFAIK the only game that's ever actually disabled the ability to use party chat while playing online was one of the COD games, Black Ops 2 I think but I don't play COD so IDK. Unfortunately it's just something that we need to live with as it's outside the control of the devs.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592561#Comment_592561
"YES IT IS. Because you are removing RNG from the equation."
No, it is not. Survivors never know which chests contains which item. Survivors never know when all the Skill Checks will happen. A Killer does know which Totem contains their Hex perk if they only use one Hex perk.
"This doesn't matter. What matters is that you are removing RNG for killers and giving them a HUGE piece of information that they shouldn't have."
It does matter because it is a relevant question to ask in the topic of whether this change would be OP.
This isn't about using 1 Hex perk, it's about using more than 1 and knowing which is which. Unless I missed something.
Giving the player information they shouldn't have access to is OP. It doesn't matter what sort of tactics evolve from it, the killer has too much information. Again it's like telling survivors what item is in a chest before they search it. It would obviously be OP because survivors would never search a chest (thus wasting time) unless it contained a key or something of comparable strength. If killer knows which totem is which then they only need to actively defend the ones they want to keep. That means they can ignore survivors doing HG, maybe even TOTH depending on the context, whereas currently they have to treat all their totems equally and protect them all.
Basically you would make it so that a killer using HG, Ruin, Devour, and TOTH could ALWAYS make sure Devour is the last to be cleansed. ALWAYS. That shouldn't happen. If you run totem roulette then you don't get the luxury to rig the game.
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@MegMain98 said:
@noneofyourbusiness I would play Nurse A LOT more if I wasn’t on console and knew how to play her well. Some people just can’t grasp Nurse or are stuck on console :/
I played Nurse for a time on Xbox to get good with her. I was doing serious work without Ruin after about a week or so just playing her. But you have to constantly practice with her or you lose the muscle memory and have to kind of start over.
That said, I personally don't find Nurse to be that much fun even when I was doing well with her. A lot of the time is was just frustrating because of how easy it is to hide from her. I'd spend all my time just looking for a survivor it was really not that much fun for me. I think it's fun to look for a survivor if they are really good at hiding, but with Nurse it felt like every survivor was good at hiding.
Right now the ones I enjoy most are Spirit, Ghostface, and Trapper. Huntress, Plague, and Freddy I enjoy too but they can be really frustrating to play depending on the circumstance. Huntress especially because she is so map dependent.
But now that new Freddy is out I'm going to add him to my killer rotations again.
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@snozer said:
MYC... so you walk away from the hook and phase back to down the one saving?
Actually what you want to do is get a hook, use BBQ to find a new target, catch them before MYC runs out, then use BBQ again to find the MYC guy.
Also MYC forces survivors to play cautiously, so it can act to slow down the game. Being a Spirit the threat you will just show up at any given time without much warning is very high, meaning even if you don't catch the MYC guy they will likely play immersed and not do gens.
I find when you immediately return to a hook though you usually end up just tunneling the guy off the hook, because the MYC guy will hide and the hooked guy will still be injured and thus easy to find.
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@Condorloco_26 said:
Better try this experiment:
Gather the top 10 nurse players in the world
Then, the 40 top survivors.
Make them play 100 matches, making all the possible swf/killer combos.
And here's the twist:
Put some money in the line. That way, real results are guaranteed.
That's... that's a tournament. What you just described is a tournament.
And I agree this is the only way to actually prove anything about Nurse, because this is the only setting where 1) all ridiculously overpowered stuff like insta-heals and omegablinks can be removed from the equation (or they should be, else it is a very ######### tournament rule set), 2) all the players are of comparable skill, and 3) all players are incentivized to play for a win.
Sorry but anything else is just BS. This is partly the reason I dismiss Depip Squad so much, though I applaud them for at least trying for consistency.
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You need to realize that a video game is just a piece of software, and there is only so much manpower you have available to work on that software at any given time. That means you have to prioritize some things over others. If you have 100 team members that work 40 hour weeks, that means you have 4k hours a week to do work. If you have 200k hours worth of work to do, well you can see why they can't just do it all in one week. This is just an example but it illustrates what game dev is actually like.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592428#Comment_592428
"Giving killers that kind of information is like tell survivors what's in a chest before they search it or how many skill checks they will get when working on a gen."
No, telling Killers which totem is which is not at all like telling Survivors what is in a chest or telling them how many Skill Checks to expect. That is not remotely close to a good comparison.
"Ok, just imagine if you knew which totems were which. Even just HG from the others. Now you know when you see a survivor on that totem you can play dumb and let them finish it."
And why doesn't a Survivor note that the Killer is being unusually hands-off with the totem and suspect Haunted Ground?
"Point is, everyone here is jumping on this saying "yes" because they want killers to have control over something they really shouldn't. Like of course they would. If I said "the govment should give erbody a million dollars" who would say no to that?? The only ones that would say no would be the reasonable people that would see it would actually ruin the economy."
?????????
"No, telling Killers which totem is which is not at all like telling Survivors what is in a chest or telling them how many Skill Checks to expect. That is not remotely close to a good comparison."
YES IT IS. Because you are removing RNG from the equation.
"And why doesn't a Survivor note that the Killer is being unusually hands-off with the totem and suspect Haunted Ground?"
This doesn't matter. What matters is that you are removing RNG for killers and giving them a HUGE piece of information that they shouldn't have.
@LordGlint said:
The economy thing was just kinda confusing and REALLY sounds like someone is getting off topic.
My point here is that just because everyone wants it doesn't make it a good idea. If the government just gave everyone $1 million that sounds like a great thing, and of course people want money, but when you do this it will royally ######### up the economy. Inflation is a real thing and all you do with this is decrease the value of the dollar. It doesn't actually solve any problems, it just breaks the system.
Think critically people. Don't just jump on something because it would OBVIOUSLY benefit the side you are playing.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592401#Comment_592401
"at the end of the day it will benefit killers way too much and destroy the entire purpose of totems"
I legit do not understand your position at all. Since when was the purpose of totems to be random? One hex perk is not random. It's simply not.
Since they were put into the game???
Like they have been RNG since the beginning. Giving killers that kind of information is like tell survivors what's in a chest before they search it or how many skill checks they will get when working on a gen.
RNG is RNG. What you guys are asking for is basically a seeded deck.
@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592401#Comment_592401
I wouldn't say this idea is broken if it's only applied to Haunted Grounds because like I said, there's counterplay plus you can't always defend the important totem. We won't know for sure until it's tested in the PTB, but I'm pretty confident that this isn't as broken as it looks.
Ok, just imagine if you knew which totems were which. Even just HG from the others. Now you know when you see a survivor on that totem you can play dumb and let them finish it. Or continue a chase on someone knowing you are about to get a one shot. There are a lot of ways that can be broken.
Point is, everyone here is jumping on this saying "yes" because they want killers to have control over something they really shouldn't. Like of course they would. If I said "the govment should give erbody a million dollars" who would say no to that?? The only ones that would say no would be the reasonable people that would see it would actually ruin the economy.
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@MasonMyers69 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592396#Comment_592396
I don't mind them not stacking, just to make them fall asleep quicker, agree with you
Yea I think the max should be -15s, so that microsleep takes 45s. Make it 15, 15, 10, 5, where Zblock has a secondary effect (maybe longer wake up time for snap-snap and clocks?).
But as it stands the version of blocks that were on the PTB are just worthless. I play on Xbox and didn't even get a chance to try it, but I can tell just by looking at it they are worthless because Hemorrhage and Blindness are worthless status effects. They literally do nothing. Blindness is only useful on Third Seal, and only then as a method of slugging, and only THEN if you can get 4 stacks before they find the totem.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592383#Comment_592383
Killers should know what totem is what because it's their belongings. Imagine if you couldn't tell what percentage your XB1 controller battery was at, doesn't it sound ridiculous? I'm, as well as many others, would want this for Haunted Grounds only. Even if the killer tries to force survivors to cleanse their Haunted Grounds, they can't both protect the important Hex and sacrifice survivors.
That's not a comparable circumstance. One has to do with game play balance, the other is not even something in the developers control (this besides the fact you can completely avoid this issue by using a wired controller).
And yea, of course you and many others want this. Because it seriously benefits killers. No killer main would say no to that, unless they have the integrity to admit that giving killer that information is broken.
It doesn't matter what tactics evolve from such a change, at the end of the day it will benefit killers way too much and destroy the entire purpose of totems. If you run HG with another totem(s) you have to accept the fact that you don't know which is which and therefore you will need to protect them all equally. It's a calculated risk on your part, something that may sometimes be a benefit and may sometimes not.
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I agree, blocks should make survivors fall asleep faster. However I think they should NOT be stackable, just because it would be kind of dumb to fall asleep in like 20 seconds.
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@LordGlint said:
@thesuicidefox Why should Haunted Grounds be a gamble on the part of the killer? I Can understand it being a gamble to equip it and possibly not get benifit out of the 1 minute, but why should it be a gamble in not knowing where my totems are? You could make this same argument about not letting killers know where their hex totems are AT ALL or not telling them which totems are ACTUALLY just dull totems.
If plunderer's had that ability, i wouldn't mind at all.
Because that's what Hex totems are, a gamble.
Look I get why you guys all want something like this, because it makes things better for killer, but you are literally missing the point of totems. It's not meant to be something you can know.
And knowing the totem's locations is not the same as knowing what the totem is. You should know the totem's location so you know where to go if you need to protect it, same as you should know where gens are or a hooked survivor. But you shouldn't know which totem it is because then you can make it so you disproportionately don't lose the important totem.
It's the same reason that anything that reveals the progress of gens are usually very rare/ultra rare add-ons. That is insanely powerful information for the killer. Granted those add-ons aren't really that good, but that's only because the killers with said add-ons have way WAY better add-on choices.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592371#Comment_592371
You're forgetting about the counterplay: If the survivors always see the killer checking on this one totem, and not the others, they can put two and two together to say that's the totem they need to destroy. Guess what happened? It's not a gamble anymore because the killer decided to make it obvious.
That's not a valid reason to give the killer a HUGE piece of information they shouldn't have. It doesn't change the fact that the killer isn't affect by RNG as they should be.
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Question for everyone here...
If Plunderer's told you the item that was in the chest before you searched it, would you want that?
Because that's basically the same thing as this but for survivors.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592327#Comment_592327
At least Haunted Grounds should be a different aura in my opinion. 🤷♂️
No because then killer would know to let survivors cleanse those specific totems. It's supposed to be a gamble. You don't know which totem is which, therefore you have to protect them all as if they are the one you want to protect. If you get lucky, survivors proc HG. If you are unlucky, they get Ruin or whatever else it was.
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@NMCKE said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/592337#Comment_592337
There's not one perfect tier list out there, and even if there was, it's still debatable between the top players. Also, I'm not saying this list is perfect, but it's close enough to get a general understanding about the killers - Thus why I included it.
However, I'd prefer if we focused on the community task: Give Weak Killers some base buffs, or QoL change to help them reach their killer status!
Didn't see your edit, yes I understand. 😁
It's only debatable because no one is using reliable measurements. It's all just opinion and experience with no real quantitative data to support it.
@LordGlint said:
@thesuicidefox Im actually going to disagree with you on this.
Tier lists are COMPLETELY about personal opinion/experience. Thats why theres so many of them and they vary from person to person. If there was 1proven right answer to a tier list, there would only be 1 list.
Whether or not you think this tier list is any good is up to you. Its DEFINITELY his opinion, just like every other list, and theres nothing wrong with that. All tier lists do is share your personal opinions with other people, typically backed up by how effect youve seen specific things with that killer/perk/whatever do.
No they aren't. Real tier lists are based on actual data. Usually in the form of frame data (or some other data pulled from the game like damage values) and tournament results. Opinion only comes into play when the data shows that two or more characters are equal, and even then there are ways to measure how effective one character is compared to another.
Considering we have not had any official tournaments for DBD, there can't be a real tier list. Hence, all DBD tier lists are pure speculation. The best we can do is BHVR's data dumps but those aren't reliable because they don't consider rank, DC's, or just the sheer variety to game play that exists in this game.
Go look up a real tier list for any game. There is 0 opinion (or so close to 0 that the impact of opinion is negligible).
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I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that the high price is due to the license holder wanting it and not BHVR. That's usually the case with these things. I mean, GF cosmetics were the normal price. Ash cosmetics were the normal price. Might have also been why it took so long for these skins to come out. They were leaked months ago IIRC.
EDIT: Wait... I just checked. THEY ARE THE NORMAL PRICE AS OTHER PURPLE COSMETICS. The one outfit is slightly more than normal, but it's not by much. So what's the problem here??
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His measurements are completely arbitrary and based on his personal opinion/experience instead of raw data. That's not how tier lists work.
Tier lists are made based on actual RAW DATA. That means frame data and match/tournament results. Had he played 100 games with each killer and recorded his kill percentage with some other data it'd still be wrong, but at least more reliable than what he actually did.
Until someone actually sits and records match results (and not just a few, you would need hundreds, maybe thousands, from multiple players playing multiple killers each) any tier list is purely subjective.
EDIT: That's not to say the video wasn't interesting to watch or that he makes good points about the strength of the killers. Just that it's like... his opinion man.
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The reason this isn't a thing is because then you could defend the right totem easily. Totems are meant to be RNG. If you use more than one that's your decision, and you should be charged with protecting ALL of them. Giving killers the luxury of knowing which totem is which is unfair when you have complete control over how many totems you use in the first place. If you do totem roulette, then it's totem roulette. House doesn't get the ability to know where the ball falls beforehand.
I will say that totems should be a different aura color than gens. Having them as red honestly makes them hard to spot from a distance sometimes. They should be pink so you can see them easier compared to other object auras.