The change that No Mither needs
I love running no mither in purposefully difficult yet fun builds but it is an underpowered perk to a certain extent. After plenty of time spent using it, I feel like I know a buff that could make it viable
(ADD)
- In the beginning of the trial, the perk is inactive.
- Upon losing a health state, the perk activates
- When the perk activates, you are affected by the broken status effect (and all other buffs given to the character by the perk itself) for the duration of the trial
(REMOVE)
- At the start of the trial, you are affected by the broken status effect for the duration of the trial
(All other current perk status effects for no mither don’t get changed)
since all of the perks give buffs to your character when injured, it would not matter if they are inactive in the beginning of the trial. This way, you do get the opportunity to take two hits in a match (and not get targeted by the killer as an easy sacrifice) while still being susceptible to no mither’s broken status effect along with its buffs.
let me know your thoughts down below, I hope that you guys like this idea and think of it as a reasonable buff for a perk that needs some love.
Comments
Also add a bloodpoint bonus please, make it a worth it hard mode.
When I play killer I let no-mithers get up twice purposefully. However, I think the killer seeing the icon once they are in the dying state is overkill. The 'Oh you can get up by yourself" is a joke. However, since I would like to see more hard-mode players I would incentivize it doubles your bloodpoint gains for that match.
No because part of the reason to use NM is to combo it with perks like Resil or DH to be able to use them from the start of the game. If you require them to get hit it just makes it so you have to go find the killer, get chased and hit, then ESCAPE from that chase to be able to get benefit from NM. And the moment the killer sees the Broken status they will know you have NM anyway, so this change would ultimately just make NM worse.
NM actually needs this:
1) BP earnings boost in all categories, similar to Distressing for killers. This is NOT a BBQ/WGLF type of boost, you can't earn more than 8k per category. You simply earn BP at twice the rate. Fitting since you in theory have half the amount of damage states you would normally. It also makes sense as a David King perk because he has WGLF, so he becomes the defacto BP booster survivor.
2) Always fast vault when you run through a window. This would give NM players something valuable in a chase and make them a bit harder to catch. It'd let them do some loops that other survivors simply can't. Considering you are one shot the whole time, this sort of thing is fair.
3) Remove injured music. It's just obnoxious when you know you are injured all the time.
@thesuicidefox I can see where you are coming from (especially with resil), but I’m talking about the viability of dead hard exclusively. When in tandem with resil and dead hard, it is a pretty solid combo. While the combo is nice and resil is valuable from the start, you don’t need dead hard unless are already in a chase, making it nearly pointless to jump into the killer then attempt to escape for only a small buff from resil.
My point was mainly to suggest strengthening the perk so that it, by itself, is more powerful rather than being a lackluster perk working with a couple of other solid but niche perks. I still think this change would be acceptable since no mither’s effects only bring value in the injured state and killers almost always tunnel you like there’s no tomorrow. This change wouldn’t make no mither worse, it would make it better. The thing is that it may make the combo a slightly more difficult to get value out of but that is far outweighed by the potential to take a second hit, substantially reduce the odds being tunneled, and all other negative effects you get from being condemned to the injured state for the entire game.
I get what you mean and I do like your 2nd suggestion. Whether or not any of this gets implemented is a mystery, but I figured I’d share my thoughts as a no mither player. I do appreciate the feedback.
Resil is actually a very strong perk. Gens in about 60 seconds, faster vault speed, faster totems, faster unhooks, faster everything. That little 9% can make a big difference.
NM is already very strong when you understand what to do with it. The fact the killer can NEVER slug you or else they lose your hook is where the power lies. That means you can put the killer in a catch 22 position if you play smart. For example, if EW3 Myers is chasing another survivor and you jump out and sponge the hit for them, that's a catch 22. Either Myers takes your hook and loses EW3 in that time or they slug you and continue the chase on a guy that's now miles away. That's just one example of something you can do with NM. No "normal" survivor can do that.
@thesuicidefox I never said that resil was weak, I acknowledge I effective it is with a no mither build. I just assessed the cost-benefit to taking a hit from a killer (with the idea that my no mither suggestion is put into practice) and getting resil’s buff. Don’t get me wrong, I run that combo all the time and it’s great.
but in all honesty, that hypothetical you set up is fairly circumstantial. While yes that does happen from time to time, it happens infrequently to the point where no mither’s downsides are still too prevalent. My point was to give make no mither more effective in more typical situations. I.e, getting chased alone by a killer, getting tunneled by the killer even when in a group, etc. Yeah, the instance you brought up is completely valid but I also don’t see how that situation wouldn’t be possible if my suggestion was brought live to the game. You can still sponge the hit (whether or not you are put into the injured or dying state) and you can still recover from being slugged by the killer. They are faced with that dilemma regardless.
You can certainly make the claim that no mither is already strong for people who are smart enough to use it effectively (believe me, I’m there with you), but the disparity between its upsides and downsides is to vast to the point where it ends up being a niche perk for certain situations, memes, or a perk that is simply left in the dust. If you gave people more opportunities to use it and get value out of it in a normal way like the way I suggested, it might become more of a viable perk that (for all we know) could shift the meta in interesting ways leading to more diverse playstyles.
No ‘normal’ survivor could do that (unless they had unbroken but I get what you mean), yes, but then again just consider the potential no mither would have to be a consistently effective perk on its own. Getting that 2 hit potential would make the benefits meet at a fairly equal level with its downsides while still being capable of demonstrating the hypothetical situations you mentioned above. And if you still believe that it would be too strong or too imbalanced in some way, another change could be made for all I care. I just think that this change could make no mither a little bit less of a wasted perk to some people.
I get why you would want the extra health state but all it does is require you to engage with the killer to get the benefits of NM's synergy with other perks. If you start the trial injured you don't need to do that and can hide from the killer as much as you want (which you should want to hide a lot because you are NM).
And that's just one example I can give that I can explain easily. Other situations are more nuanced and it all depends on what's going on and how well you understand the mindset of the person playing killer. Like you could have two of the exact same situations, where in one it's a bad move and the other it's a good move, because in one the killer won't panic and take the bait, and the other the killer has shown mental weakness and will panic allowing you to do whatever it is you are trying to do. I wouldn't pull that kind of stuff against someone that's not going to flinch from it, I will against someone that will spend 10 seconds deciding what to do. It's about reading your opponent more than anything.
Don't forget that the symbol indicating a survivor has No Mither should also be removed. The perk would actually get a chance to be used if it wasn't on display the entire match for the killer. Without the symbol, there is a good chance the killer could forget (especially if they have more than one injured person), but as long as they see you are broken, they will pick you up immediately.
@thesuicidefox again, my point is to make no mither less dependent on that combo and make it more powerful for its intended bonuses. It shouldn't be a perk that is used only to reap the benefits of another, it’s an interesting perk that greatly rewards high risk play to the injured. And ofc people who are susceptible to the negative broken effect from no mither (whether or not they have 1 or 2 health states) will do their best to hide from the killer. The extra health state doesn't mean play recklessly, it just provides a modicum of forgiveness that can make or break the outcome of certain games.
I’m having a hard time kinda understanding what point you’re trying to prove with your situations you bring up. First of all, situations exactly like the one you mentioned would pop up if someone were to have lost their starting health state and remained broken for the trial. You never explained how my suggestion to no mither would make that any less possible other than 1 additional hit might throw off the sequence of event leading to either taking the bait or panicking. You still can recover and they, regardless of the change, can still reach the same conclusions you mentioned. So either they start chasing you after they hit you (from normal to injured (from there, broken)) and either you escape or they down you, leading to the situation you brought up. Or you sponge the hit and the killer continues to chase after the other person after they've gained distance from the killer. Reading your opponent is still possible, in fact it may take a new level of mental strength to read your opponent and consider the outcomes of the given situation if there are more events that could play out from an additional health state.
I completely get what you’re saying, but no mither shouldn't be the perk you use to run a build with a permanent 9% resil buff or this isn't happening or whatever other perks apply to being injured. It should have it’s own value, and I think the additional 1 time starting health state might just fix this problem.