thesuicidefox
thesuicidefox
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@The_Crusader said:
So what was the poit in them implementing dead hard into the game?Who needs to waste a perk slot when you can have a free dodge with NO COOLDOWN!!
I feel if killers found something like this it would get the tears flowing to no end. Hell survivors already do cry about dribbling and even disconnect because of it.
Because... 360's aren't really dodging so they added an actual dodge to the game. 360 only works against bad killers. Are you really this blind? Do I need to draw pictures?
WHAT UNIVERSE AM I IN
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@Unknown1313 said:
Ofc theyr not nor did i pretend they were. why are you mad? all i said was stop being toxic and that includes killers to and spread some love yet here you are spreading hate.... or atleast asume somthing that wasnt true.1) Not mad. The fact you assume I am tells me you are as much a part of the problem as the people you rally against.
2) You specifically go after survivors. If you truly think both sides can be toxic, you would have made this a point in your OP.
3) Not spreading hate either. Stop twisting my words to fit your narrative. Again you are part of the problem when you think this.
4) Wants to spread love yet spews hate towards survs in the OP. Hypocrisy much? -
@The_Crusader said:
Because its not a dodge? The only true dodge mechanic in the game is dead hard.As you admit its taking advantage of the way movement works in the game. Its survivors trying to buy a few seconds to get to a pallet. Its essentially a free dead hard. Its cheesing the system brcause the movement is poorly done in this game.
It's actually not though. It only works against killers that fall for it. If you expect a 360 and spin your camera you hit them. There is no avoiding that, no matter how much you spin. Alternatively you can take a step backwards when they do it and they 360 into your hit.
You're like those people that say wallbouncing is an exploit in Gears of War, when the reality is that 1) they can't do it themselves, and 2) they have sh*tty aim. Top tier players can wallbounce and aim at wallbouncers no problem. Yes they will miss sometimes, but the reality is that good players understand how it works and therefore know how easy it is to counter. The trick is to predict what wall they will bounce from and aim at where they WILL BE not WHERE THEY ARE. Wallbouncing doesn't make you invincible, and in fact as of the most recent update in Gears 4 you don't heal when you bounce, meaning that in order to wallbounce up to someone without dying you actually have to be good at it or they have to have bad aim. You do that against a competent player they will just pump you full of Lancer and if you happen to make it close to them they switch to Gnasher and body you before you get into 1 shot range.
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@powerbats said:
I haven't played Trapper in a bit but i'm pretty sure it's M1 to place but also M1 to pick up which is why I suggested M2 to rearm. For XBox perhaps keep it the same but add a combo of 2 buttons to rearm only.I just checked a YT video, it's space bar to pick up a trap. You should really check next time before making such comments. It would avoid these pointless back and forths.
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@Killmaster said:
Yes, but only because there is no counter-play for a survivor, the only compromise I can see is that the mending countdown timer only activates when you are outside the killers terror radius.People need to stop saying this. Yes, right now, there doesn't seem to be any counter play. But that doesn't mean something won't be discovered in the future. As I said above, I've seen many instances of some new cheese being discovered and being claimed as OP because there is no counter play, only for it to be obsolete 6 months later because counter play was discovered. IDC how good you are or how many hours you have, sometimes these things take time to discover. It might not be entirely obvious either, it might even contradict what you expect. If we skip 3 months and it's still a problem then I'll be willing to accept there is no counter play.
@The_Crusader said:
Just...take a hook with legion?Survivors think they're entitled to be 100% safe all the time. Sorry but no, if you aren't at a pallet or loop then you take a hit. Its not the end of the world. Theres no dodge button in DBD for a reason. Want a dodge? Use a perk slot for dead hard, thats the idea.
360 is just something silly survivors made up because of course THEY get to make all the rules.
I shouldn't have to swing my arm 180% like an idiot just to counter their silly #########. Plus as you said its often the random freezing that makes it work. If this was fixed maybe it woukdnt be as big of an issue but it happens commonly when playing killer and taking a swing. Plus 360's are a ######### in the corn. Maybe thats just me but its hard when you can barely keep track of the survivor. Guess which realm has 5 maps? Guess which offering survivors burn the most? Thats right, coldwind.
God forbid survivors loose some cheesy crap they discovered.
Not sure what you are on. Spinning your character model is very very VERY easy to counter as long as you predict it. It's an emergent dynamic of the way movement works in the game. It's not even comparable to the situation with Legion because it has a very straightforward and simple outplay... spin your camera. I honestly can't believe you consider it an exploit. Since when is dodging an enemy's attack an exploit?
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@powerbats said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@powerbats said:
Agreed, say hold your other mouse button if pc to reset the trap that's already there but perhaps add 1 second to account for you not picking it up. It'd still be quicker than you picking it up and replacing it but slower than if it was an empty space.It should just be whatever button you use to place the trap, since the game won't let you place a trap on top of another anyway. Just give a prompt to "reset" the trap.
The issue with that is you're given either the option to pick it up thus wasting it unless you're using a bag addon or it won't let you place it down. Which is why i suggested using the other unused key since that way you've got an option.
Perhaps you want to pick that trap up and move it to a better spots but if you auto rearm it you're screwed so this way you have a choice.
IDK what it is on PC, but on Xbox it's LT to place the trap and LB to pick it up. Is it the same button on PC? AFAIK it's not, but maybe I'm wrong. That's why I say it should just be the button used to place it. If I want to reset a trap I just walk up and press LT, as if I were placing a trap but since the game won't let me place a trap on top of another I can't accidentally place a trap when I wanted to reset a trap.
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@Nickenzie said:
Well, she probably didn't want to play a game that she obviously wasn't gonna win.Pure BS. Take the L then and move on. You're just being a spoiled brat otherwise.
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@powerbats said:
Agreed, say hold your other mouse button if pc to reset the trap that's already there but perhaps add 1 second to account for you not picking it up. It'd still be quicker than you picking it up and replacing it but slower than if it was an empty space.It should just be whatever button you use to place the trap, since the game won't let you place a trap on top of another anyway. Just give a prompt to "reset" the trap.
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Killers are toxic too. In fact, toxicity is independent of which side you play. There are tons of toxic players on both sides. Stop pretending killers are innocent.
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@Onionthing said:
Snitches get stitches ... err ... Ratters get .. splattered??? ... ANYWAY! I tunnel people who rat out their fellow team mates. That's just bad form. I'm a Killer yes, but i dont like free meals. If I'm on survivor and that happens I never come to their aid.The thing is maybe they are ratting out the guy that's just hiding in lockers all game and just letting them do the work. Or a guy that makes unsafe rescues just for WGLF tokens. Or the guy that ratted them out at the start of the game in a way you might not have noticed. Or the guy that stole their item somehow (maybe with the "heal me but then I drop an item to trick you into dropping your item" bait). Or the guy that is sandbagging the team by failing gens. Or maybe the guy was their killer in a previous game and mori spammed them or something.
Ratting out someone isn't explicitly something you do if you are toxic. Sometimes it's retaliation to someone else's toxicity. And there are so many things survivors can do to other survivors without the killer even knowing.
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Ratting out other survivors to save your own ass is okay I think. It's part of the game, too many survivors think of themselves as a team. You're not a team, you're a group of survivors. If I can rat you out with Bond and save myself I probably will, especially if I feel like you are just leeching off the rest of the group.
However, working with the killer is different. I define that as it being a set up, where both players agreed to work together before the game starts. I've had that sort of thing before and that's super lame. If the killer refuses to kill the rat then they are probably working together. If the killer is just as willing to kill the rat as they are the others then it's okay. A bit lame, but okay.
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@The_Crusader said:
A 360 is as cheesy as moonwalking. You might find it easy to counter but there are obviously many youtube compilations making fun of players who don't know how to counter it. Some of them made a name off 360s alone. It wasn't intentional and its just cheesing the ######### mechanics of the game.Just... spin your camera? I play on console and even I find it extremely easy to counter a 360. The trick really is to predict it. You might 360 the first time but now I will be expecting it and you probably won't get me again. If you do I guarantee it was because of frame drops. It happens often enough that I can tell the survivor think they 360'd me when in reality my screen froze for a millisecond while I swung and I miss. When the optimization patch comes, and the game becomes more stable for killer, trust I won't fall for a second 360. You get 1, use it wisely.
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@Yoinked said:
I do slug like I said in the op. I’ve had survivors let the other bleed out while they hide away somewhere. The worst is when they run the whole ninja perk build (UE, QnQ, etc.) because there’s no way to track them.There’s a lot of toxic survivors that will really just let their teammate take the fall so they can escape.Because survivors should just be idiots and basically kill themselves to save someone that is also going to die anyway? LOL
If you slug to counter hatch, they can not save to counter the slug. You're asking for guaranteed 4k when you didn't earn it. Maybe stop camping the slug and go look for the other guy. If he gets up... so what, now you know they are both in the same area and neither can leave yet.
I swear killers asking for hand outs. Just take the 3k, is it really that big of a deal?
@ThirdSealOPplzNerf said:
No one is going to use a tracking just for the hatch. Everytime I play as survivor either my team is ok and I escape or I do all the generators and some idiot that doesn't do anything gets the hatch which is stupid. And for the killer too no survivor shouldn't fell perfectly safe 1 meter away from the killer because they get a free escape no matter what. Close the hatch gg or survivor finds it gg no more bs standoffs.Someone has no clue how to actually use Whispers.
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DW timer shouldn't go down if you are in a chase OR in the killer's TR. Then this wouldn't be possible.
That said I don't think it's really the optimal way to play the killer and I believe that after some time counter play will emerge, especially if a lot of Legions are doing it. I've seen this many times before, a game comes out or something new is added, someone finds a way to cheese it, everyone cries "BROKEN", 6 months later no one does it because counter play was discovered. Sometimes this stuff takes time. You could have 5k hours and be the best DBD player in the world, doesn't mean you will immediately figure out new features. Come back in like 3 months to see if it's still a problem.
Also the video posted was green ranks, those survivors didn't seem very good.
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Wait until they fix the audio. Spirit was just fine before, now she's borderline impossible to use because sound is so important for her, more than any other killer.
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I hate killers like this.
"You broke my totem" DC
"You looped me" camped
"You crouched twice in a row that's a teabag" tunnelJust means they are trash and will make excuse after excuse instead of facing the truth.
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I played against a Spirit few days ago that had DH1. She actually got 5 tokens and mori'd 2 of us, sacrificed a third, and the last escaped. I was close to escaping but she caught me running to the gate.
Thing was she offered Game and had Prayer Beads. I was also playing Ace for a daily and have none of my usual perks (I had Self Care 1 that was literally my best perk). Also the first guy sacrificed was in my party and told me she had DH (though failed to mention it being tier 1). Every time someone got saved I expect a one shot but it never came, then all of a sudden she mori'd a guy and I realized it was tier 1.
Had it been a different map or I was playing as Kate (my main) or just if the other 2 were better survivors (rank reset and all) things would have been way different. What she did was a gimmick build. It works sometimes but it's not reliable. I knew she had DH, and saw her mori a guy, I honestly didn't even care because we were still doing gens. And it was a bit of dumb luck she caught me at the end anyway, it was entirely possible I could have escaped.
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1) This is bannable. He is holding the game hostage by body blocking you. Report him.
2) Name shaming is not allowed on the forums, I would remove the link to his profile. Just PM a mod or something.
3) As far as I am aware, you can drop an item while touching the killer to break collision, allowing you to pass through. -
@AshleyWB said:
My thinking behind this perk is to be more aware as to how your scratch marks are distributed, so you can implement scratch mark deception towards the killer more.Well if you play a good amount of killer you get a good understanding of how they work anyway.
@TangledHelix said:
@thesuicidefox said:
I like the idea, but just to play devil's advocate... what would be the purpose of this?I ask because I don't see much reason for a survivor to be able to see scratch marks. To find other survivors? Use the more superior perks Bond/Empathy/Aftercare. To see what the killer sees? Well if you see them looking at the ground where you just were or following you without actually seeing you then they can see scratches. I'm just having a hard time finding a point to it, as interesting as it may be to use the perk it would ultimately being kinda pointless, right?
The only reason I'd like this perk is to see my own scratchmarks rather than other survivors. I'd like to know if my scratchmarks are gone so I can juke the killer easier and I can keep track of my own trail.
I could see some value in that, but if you understand that run = scratches then it becomes rather easy to juke the killer and bait them to follow scratches. I do this thing where if they killer has been chasing me a long time and I break LOS, I run to a locker, then casually walk away. Most of the time they check the locker and then I'm gone.
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@Shad03 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
Well Deliverance is meant to be like a last resort sort of thing IMO, you are usually better off letting someone else save you since then you could heal. You should be using if you are NOT going to get saved. If people knew you had it they might just not save you, and while you could save yourself again if they can save and heal you that's the optimal play.The major problem is that Deliverance is also a achievement/trophy. Your fellow survivors can screw you out of it by being overly altruistic. And even as a last resort it can fail if used when the killer is most likely close enough to catch you anyways. Besides, you can't use it on your second hook. You're pretty much forced to use it on your first hook. Sure letting others save you and then getting healed is a optimal play, but mah trophy.
Mash the button the second you are hooked. Or play SWF. problem solved.
Not to mention, there is a reason they are called ACHIEVEMENTS. You're not supposed to get them super easy.
@GodDamn_Angela said:
I doubt Hook Vultures would care if they know you have it up.Yea this too. There will be people that save you regardless. All the change would do is make the other people not save in situations where they should save, which is infinitely worse than situations where they save but shouldn't save.
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It let's you loop the killer in more places. You don't need Lithe or SB or Adren to loop at pallets and windows, but you NEED Balanced to loop at drop points. The fact it has a benefit outside of just a speed boost is why you want to use it. I've been using it and I almost can't play without it now. Maps like Game, Haddonfield, Ward, Church, all of these have drop points that you can use to loop a killer for a very long time. It turns areas that are normally unsafe into very safe spots, like hills, combine on Coldwind, top area of Lery's, etc. Add in pallets/windows and you now have more options.
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I like the idea, but just to play devil's advocate... what would be the purpose of this?
I ask because I don't see much reason for a survivor to be able to see scratch marks. To find other survivors? Use the more superior perks Bond/Empathy/Aftercare. To see what the killer sees? Well if you see them looking at the ground where you just were or following you without actually seeing you then they can see scratches. I'm just having a hard time finding a point to it, as interesting as it may be to use the perk it would ultimately being kinda pointless, right?
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@thekiller490490 said:
As a Billy main cool down seems longer by a bit.I only just started to really play Billy after the update. I thought I just suck with chainsaw, but maybe it's actually broken. I've been just using my main attack to actually chase, only using chainsaw to get around faster or break pallets faster.
@ModernFable said:
Yes, but it’s gotten worse and worse.I agree, but it was still a pretty massive problem before. My friend that got me into the game plays Nurse, and has the game on PC, and he said since the beginning he has frame rate issues on a lot of maps. After playing Nurse myself more recently (last few months) I can confirm it to still be the case. Lery's and Haddonfield are the worst offenders.
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I play on Xbox and I can definitively state that your findings are incorrect. Maybe at rank <15 it's true, but get to rank 1, as both killer and survivor, and you will see how wrong you are. Ruin shows up in almost every game I played at rank 1, to the point I just expect the killer to always have it and have learned to just do great skill checks and I know where all the totems spawn.
The only thing that's somewhat correct is the variability between killers. Nurse and Huntress are rare, and majority of players using them are not that good. However there are several VERY good Nurse/Huntress players on Xbox (I'd like to consider myself one of them but I digress). More common at high ranks are Myers, Billy, Wraith, and LF. There are also a lot of good survivors that can give you the run around for quite some time.
All I really see from the OP is you need to rank up. Because everything you say contradicts my experience entirely.
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I know there is some minor stat tracking on Xbox. Just go to DBD under your achievements then click stats. You can see your time played (though this is the time the game app is opened not actually gameplay time, lobby simulator FTW), total kills, total escapes, total BP earned, and total heals. You can also compare it to your friends to see where you stand on a sort of leaderboard.
But an in-game feature with more details would definitely be a nice addition. However, considering the current state of the game, I'd rather the team focus on the important stuff first.
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@Sixnno said:
I like how you completely ignore the part were I state that: that was how the game used to be scored. a Killer needed to get kills to pip and due to that a lot of players (even after the change the emblem system) still go off that method for win or lose.USED TO BE SCORED. Past tense. A year ago, yes you could say killing = win. Not anymore, which you seem to be ignoring.
@Sixnno said:
You also ignore the part were I state** how people play a killer in this game to KILL.**People play killer for other reasons. I've faced a Freddy that slugged everyone and never took hooks. He played just to chase people and slow down the game. Needless to say we all escaped, but the game lasted a long time and he definitely got iri Chaser. Therefore he (likely) pipped and won.
You can't speak for everyone.
@Sixnno said:
The core game mechanics of chess is to move pieces to the other side and to take their King. All other mechanics support this in that.Yes, taking the king is the win condition. That's the goal of the game. Taking any other piece is ultimately irrelevant. It CONTRIBUTES to a win, since if you take out all the opponent's pieces they won't be able to beat you, but it's not explicitly the win condition.
@Sixnno said:
In foot ball the rules are all built around the main win mechanic as well: to get to the scoring zone.But this isn't the only mechanic. It is the scoring condition. Making plays and gaining yards is a mechanic too. But you can have more yards gained than the opponent and still lose if you never convert that yardage to scoring points. You can go from the 90 yard line to the 1 yard line 1000 times, but if you never score the opponent can beat you by gaining 100 yards and actually scoring.
@Sixnno said:
Dbdl's win mechanics are not built around the main mechanics of the game. Due to the point were people complained so much that they have had to re-write the "win" condition 3 separate times for killers and twice for survivors. Dbdl's win is not a zero-sum game. Unlike those examples you gave above, 3 every one can 'win' in dbdl currently.??? Emblem system isn't built around the mechanics of the game??? Ok let's take a look...
Chaser/Evader = most basic mechanic of the game, the chase. You catch a lot of people or if you escape a chase every time you you score in these emblems.
Gatekeeper/Lightbringer = the objective mechanic for survivors. Stop them at gens or do gens to score here.
Benevolence/Malicious = injuring and healing mechanic. Yet another mechanic of the game used in a scoring system.
Devout/Unbreakable = kills/escapes. This is the only point in the game where these things matter, but like I keep saying it's CONTRIBUTORY not MANDATORY. You get kills or escape, you merely increase the chance of a pip (win). You don't guarantee it. There are situations where you can do these things and not pip. Tombstone Myers has this issue, if he kills everyone with tombstone he won't get Chaser/Malicious and can safety or even depip (if they did gens super fast). Likewise, a survivor can do LITERALLY NOTHING the entire game except rotate from random locker to random locker, then run out the gate. They get iri Unbroken, but nothing in every other category. By definition OF THE GAME'S SCORING SYSTEM, they lost.
@Sixnno said:
If people were happy with winning with Legion, there would be no complaints right now since it's fairly easy to actually win as Legion. Instead we have a large number of complaint threads both here, reddit, and steam about how weak he is as a KILLER.Yea because these people have it set in their mind that kill = win. Again ad populum at work. "Everyone wants to kill therefore killing is a win".
That's not to say he shouldn't be able to kill, he should. Just that, killing is not the only part of the game. There are other parts that are just as important.
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@Freudentrauma said:
And I'm not saying that game mechanics define the win. I say the core game, if you break it down to it's minimum.This is LITERALLY what game mechanics are. Core game , "minimum", those are game mechanics.
Pips = win. That's how it is defined in the game. You can do whatever mental gymnastics you want to validate kills/escapes as wins, but that's not the way the game works. I've escaped and depipped, and I've gotten kills and depipped. Did I win? No because I depipped, WHICH IS A LOSS. If you can do these things and still lose, then they aren't win conditions.
If you want to play to escape/kill/get 4 BBQ stacks/whatever that's fine. But it's not a win as defined by the game and therefore not a real win. Otherwise I could literally say anything is a win. I found a purple flashlight in a chest. WIN. I hit a survivor with a cross-map hatchet. WIN. I wasn't the first to die. WIN. You see how absurd that is right?
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@Freudentrauma said:
I'm talking to the core game mechanics of the game. If you would prototype DbD and strip it down to it's base mechanics, there wouldn't be any point system. The core game defines the win and lose condition. The pip system is technically just another monthly grind which might be part of the entire game, but not to it's core and it's general feel.If we go by that logic, then you only win at Chess by taking out more pieces than your opponent. You win at football (American) by gaining more yards than your opponent. You win at baseball by hitting the ball more than your opponent.
Game mechanics do not define a win. They are contributory to but not mandatory for a win. Escaping was never a victory condition. Killing was only a victory condition during victory cube. TODAY RIGHT NOW, pips are the victory conditions. That's all that matters.
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@Sixnno said:
It's not my view.
It's the view of many. Especially since killers used to be judge on just kills and still have killing apart of the current pip system.The argument "everyone believes it therefore it is true" is a logical fallacy called ad populum. It's like saying because most of the world believes in some form of God, that it means God must exist.
@Freudentrauma said:
No, that's how it was defined over the time. But the core game system actually defines Kill or Escape as the win/lose conditions for survivors. For killers it's more complicated, because technically you win/lose against individual survivors, but I would say each kill is a win and the core design is about how many you can earn each match.No, the win condition is a pip. PERIOD. Playing for kills or escapes as a win condition is the reason there are so many toxic players in this game that get salty when they "lose".
Killing and escape contributes to a win, but is not the sole definition of a win. You can pip without killing or escaping. Is that a loss? No.
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@ModernFable said:
Console frame rate has been broken since the the game was createdFixed that for you.
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@MegMain98 said:
Stridor has a direct counter though, Iron Will. When I run Iron Will/Calm Spirit/Quick and Quiet combo on my Claudette, I’m basically a ninja. She doesn’t make a single sound. Not saying Stridor is a bad perk but it has counterplay to it.Actually it's the other way around. Stridor counters IW, because you can hear someone with IW at 8-10m. And I recently discovered that you can tell a killer has Stridor if you run IW because you will hear yourself cry in pain. I used to think it was just changing the volume for killer but it actually changes the volume for everyone.
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Most likely bugs. When you change the engine it can have cascading effects.
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Whispers and Blood Warden are my favorite perks to use on almost every killer. BBQ is almost a must. Ruin isn't needed on every killer, but some you do kinda need it (Trapper, Huntress). Been using PGTW too and it's been helping me to control the game more.
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It takes like a full second to trigger though. You can avoid it on reaction by looking up. Also it can blind survivors too, I've had that happen to me, and I think a Claud blinded herself when I was chasing her through shack because she dropped it, blinded me, then we were both walking into the corner like total boobs.
@Avariku said:
pretty sure we're getting rare/ultra rare perks at a higher rate. true, survivors are getting those too... but at a lower rate due to the firecrackers.but, ya know... so not fair. xD
Yea I got 3 Mother's Rings and a mori in 1 blood web because of boxes
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@AntiJelly said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@AlwaysInAGoodShape To be fair, most of the killers in Tyde's tournament were just awful. Like rank 20 all the way through. Their survivor play was also very bad. I mean just watch the first game of the one with Trapper or Myers. It's like the guy just bought the game that day it was so bad.Not to discredit your post. I agree with it. But I wouldn't go using Tyde's tournament results as evidence when majority of the participants were just plain bad players.
I don't think it particularly matters if the players are good or not, the death-efficiency problem exists at all levels of play.
But when the killer or survivors suck, of course it will be a 4 escape/4k respectively. Not saying the problem doesn't exist, I'm saying you shouldn't use these trials as evidence because of the skill discrepancy.
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@Sixnno said:
Some people view killing as the killers objective. Legion gets low kills and thus doesn't win for a majority of people that hold that view.Your "view" of winning is irrelevant. Otherwise anything could be a "win".
Pips are the only way the game defines a win.
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@MalEducado said:
stridor a good, perk, you have to troll us...Actually it is a good perk IF YOU HAVE EARS. I play with a 5.1 headset, I can pinpoint a survivor just by hearing the cries of pain. And on Nurse/Huntress you can literally snipe survivors through corn, which is very scary thing to go against. Imagine running into the corn, barely hearing lullaby, and having hatchets wizz right past you, if they miss it's only by inches. Stridor can also beat those annoying p3 Clauds that just hide right next to you. You hear a very distinct "GASP" and it's directional, now you found them.
But if you already suck as killer Stridor won't help you
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@Nightshade said:
What if it was added that Insidious couldn't be activated within 24 meters of a hooked survivor? (Ooo I'm totally adding that to the main post). Also playing a bit of devil's advocate, I think one of the reasons Insidious is used to camp hooks is because it's the only bait a killer can be fairly certain the survivors will go for. The slight aura read would definitely help in ambushing survivors around buildings, generators, tall grass, and areas all around the map. That lack of knowing when and where the survivors are coming from makes it difficult to properly take them by surprise with it.It won't change the fact that Insidious doesn't actually hide you. Every killer makes distinct noises that can be heard, and most killers stand out like a sore thumb. It's also a massive waste of time to just stand around as killer. The whole perk is poorly designed. Adding auras will just make it easier to hook camp, and if you take that away that's literally the only thing the perk is even mildly useful for, as lame as it is.
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@Sixnno said:
Great killer at pipping and ranking up.If you count ranking up as winning, then legion is one of the best killers.
Ranking up is literally the only metric of a "win" in this game. SMH
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@The_Crusader said:
Yes compare me to a camper because I don't like the idea of a perk that rewards people for tunneling. If the obsession gets caught then it's game over for them as you admit yourself, nothing more fun than having the killer circle the hook and whack you down as soon as you're unhooked. Lots of fun, great game design.I'm not comparing you to a camper, I'm comparing you to a dude that just assumes I'm being toxic because I literally played optimally (actually I just outplayed him since it wasn't even a real loop once the pallet was gone). Gates were powered, I expected him to camp me and I was fine with that. But then he starts hitting me on the hook and nodding his head, showing that he was tilted. The other 3 managed to make a play and save me just before my bar dropped, then he left someone dying on the ground right by that hook and ignored another dude that was injured just to chase me across the map, and he eventually got me and killed me. He basically threw away the game just to kill me. Had he took the other guy's hook and downed the second guy, he might have gotten like a 3k.
If you get caught fast yea DL sucks. Oh well, you died super fast, just accept it and move on. Just using a perk doesn't make you toxic. It's your other behavior (specifically what you say after the game) that makes you toxic. And it does actually make the game more fun if you know how to hide/run from the killer because the stakes are increased. You literally cannot be found at all, it makes the game scary.
You get tilted at something that's not really that tilting, making YOU the toxic one.
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Surveillance should show you repair progress of the gens within X/Y/Z distance to you. Then you can use it to see which gens are being worked on or need to be kicked.
I like the suggestion for Unrelenting getting a Brutality BP bonus. We have Deviousness and 2 Hunter but no Brutality.
Aura reading on Insidious....ehhhhh... the problem with the perk is that people use it to camp hooks. I feel like this change would just make that worse. I honestly don't know what they could do with this perk to fix that and keep it as a stealth perk.
@Nightshade said:
I'd love to hear any ideas on a good rework/improvement for Monstrous Shrine btw.I suggested in another thread that for every survivor hooked in the basement apply an X% penalty to repair progression to all other survivors. Something substantial like 10% per survivor, which would force survivors to make the save sooner rather than later, letting you pressure the group by using the basement.
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Well Deliverance is meant to be like a last resort sort of thing IMO, you are usually better off letting someone else save you since then you could heal. You should be using if you are NOT going to get saved. If people knew you had it they might just not save you, and while you could save yourself again if they can save and heal you that's the optimal play.
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Well if you look at it as meters per second, it's 4.4 (110) and 4.6 (115). So if you move for 10 seconds there is a difference of 2m distance. It would take the slow killer roughly a half second extra to move the same distance.
My point here is that I'm just used to optimizing my path, and when you do that well with 115% movement you can more readily outplay survivors. Mistakes are also easier to recover from.
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Yes. Just like when you throw a hatchet or charge chainsaw. An attack is and attack is an attack.
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@AlwaysInAGoodShape To be fair, most of the killers in Tyde's tournament were just awful. Like rank 20 all the way through. Their survivor play was also very bad. I mean just watch the first game of the one with Trapper or Myers. It's like the guy just bought the game that day it was so bad.
Not to discredit your post. I agree with it. But I wouldn't go using Tyde's tournament results as evidence when majority of the participants were just plain bad players.
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IMO Coulro is underrated and underused. Where NC encourages you to not heal near the killer, Coulro makes it actually impossible. Use it with Distressing and you can basically zone out survivors and force them to never heal. NC doesn't actually stop them from healing around you.
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I watched it. Interesting discussion, however I think that everyone underestimates the developer's understanding of the game. I posted a comment explaining this, but I had a chance to work in game dev through a user experience lab for about a year during my capstone at college. It opened my eyes to what actually goes into making games, and I will tell you that game devs (especially the designers) have an IMMENSE understanding of the game at a fundamental level.
At one point they all kind of jumped on the bandwagon of "Legion should have 115% movement" when the devs have said they tested this and it was bad. Most players would call BS and say it would be better, but the truth is if they think it was bad it is probably bad. Sure they could throw it onto the PTB, but that's a waste of time/resources that could be spent coming up with better solutions. The result will probably be people realizing that 115% movement IS BAD for Legion. So why bother to do a public test if they know the outcome?
There was also a lot of theorycrafting, and again this goes back to none of these guys being game developers. They are players. Perspective matters. You can sit there an come up with a whole lotta stuff that sounds great on paper, but in practice it almost never plays out that way. The only way to actually find solutions is to test and retest them in the game, rigorously in an endless cycle of iteration. Like, read the description for Surveillance and it sounds very good, because you can track which gens are being touched after you kick them. But in practice it falls apart, first because you can't kick 3 gens in 16 seconds, and second because it doesn't really do anything to slow the game. It's just information that you could easily get by reading your opponent. If I kick a gen that's got 2 pumps working, and walk away, I KNOW FOR A FACT someone got right back on the sucker and is working on it. So if I chase someone and get a hook, and I'm using something like PGTW, that's probably going to be the first gen I go check. If it hasn't been touched since I kicked it I'm actually more surprised than if it's still running.
People need to accept that the devs know what they are doing. Too many people think they have better ideas, but the truth is their ideas are awful. Might sound great, but it won't actually be great if you put it into the game.
That's not to say I didn't enjoy the discussion or that they had nothing of use to say. They did. Just making the point that even the best players in the world make ######### game developers. It is an art AND a science, and it's not as easy as you think. Trust me on this, I used to think that way until I got to peak into game dev. Now I appreciate the effort these guys put into a game for US, the players, and I trust them to make the right decisions (at least when it comes to what's best for the game, stuff like microtransactions and loot boxes are a different story... that's the publisher usually forcing the game devs to put in features to make money).
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@The_Crusader said:
These perks enable and in the case of DL even encourage toxic behaviour.If I'm the DL obsession and I get tunneled I don't get mad at it. And when I use DL I'm not explicitly being toxic. The perk says you have to kill the guy for it to work, and when you get it to work it is quite powerful. Know what I do when I'm DL? I hide and play super safe the entire game, because if I get caught even once everyone dies. I've survived to gates/escape many games as DL. I've also been caught and camped/tunneled to death, which again I don't get mad because THAT IS HOW THE PERK IS DESIGNED TO WORK.
You're like this Wraith I played last week that camped me for looping him (around the red house on Haddonfield, AFTER the pallet was broken which isn't even a real loop). He said I was being toxic because I looped. No looping is an optimal way to play the game. I stayed there because I had Balanced and used it to run away. Also he had at least 4 chances to hit me and I 360'd him to keep the chase going. He didn't even attempt to mind game or anything. He just followed me the whole time. Then camped me after he chased for 3 gens, and gates powered shortly after he caught and hooked me. His argument that I was being toxic is nonsense. Just because you get pissed off at the game does not make something toxic. I told him if I wanted to be toxic I would have run DS/FL and then pestered him all game, then once everyone escaped I would just hide and refuse to leave until he quit (I wouldn't actually do this, just making the point). He wanted to blame me for his lack of skill when he could have easily caught me several times, or given up to pressure other survivors. Then he argued with me about toxicity being "taken" not "given". No, it is definitely GIVEN. Otherwise literally anything could be toxic.
Stop assuming intent. When you do then YOU are the toxic one. If someone loops me, or FL me, or uses DS on me, or even teabags me at the gate I don't assume they are being toxic. I send a GG, THEN they get toxic with their response (sometimes).
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@The_Crusader said:
Dying light can go along with DS and OoO. It's an extremely toxic perk that rewards killers for tunneling the hell out of one survivor.Perks are not toxic. It's the players that are toxic.
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@Sinner said:
@thesuicidefox said:
They wouldn't have needed to nerf healing if they just remove Self Care from the game. That's literally the entire reason they did these changes. To nerf SC without actually nerfing SC.Removing self care is not that simple. If they had removed it, it would mean no more body blocking, taking hits for teammates,etc. This would also make the game boring for survivors. They need more fun things to do not less.
You know other players can heal you right? Also medkits are a thing.
The game is boring with SC. It makes it so flippin' easy. If you had to actually find someone else to heal you, that slows down the game right there.
It is simple. Survivors just need to man up and learn to play without a safety net.