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oxygen
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Stealth and the excitement it does genuinely bring is NOT something that resists being eroded by repetition very well, it's one of the reasons that heavily stealth-focused multiplayer games are relatively rare. Stealth in games just work a lot better when the seekers in the game of hide and seek aren't other actual players, and while there are exceptions they're hard to pull off.
The devs already seem to lean towards using more unsafe structures to make it less easy to just mindlessly run from pallet to window to pallet, which is a much better way to encouraging and rewarding chase-breaking and chase-avoidance - making chases more threatening and uncertain and more about outplaying your opponent than "force the pallet/entity blockers as fast as possible" for killers which is the case with the safer structures for a lot of killers. I think a lot of people can agree with a design philosophy that leads to less open "middle-of-Blood-Lodge" structures and more LOS breakers and uncertainty, which is a much better (and more realistic) option than trying to "remove looping".
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Look at it this way, if you die to NOED you already got to play until endgame in one way or another. I'll get surprise smacked by NOED over getting mindlessly hard camped 1st hook or hardcore proxied + mori'd early on any day of the week.
You're not entitled to escape until you've either passed the barrier or jumped into the hatch, just like a killer isn't entitled to kill you until you get sacrificed on the hook or they've mori'd you.
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As said, as long as it's civil even a thread that starts out with an "extreme" opinion can lead to some good exchanges as people meet in the middle and the like. I don't want looping entirely gone, but at the same time I wouldn't mind it getting "nerfed" if we got more interesting stealth/chase-breaking options.
The people that just label people disagreeing with them as killer/survivor mains are unfortunate of course, same with the people that throw words like exploit, cheat and toxic around like candy. But just how it is.
EDIT: Don't mean to imply "centrist" opinions are always the right ones no matter what, but hopefully it makes sense. A topic that starts with a "controversial demand" can still have all sorts of discussions about compromises, partial adoptions and so on.
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@Fab said:
Epic Games is the Publisher of UE4, and I would presume any licensed UE4 game.
This.
Epic also bought the makers of Easy Anti-Cheat iirc. Licensing gets everywhere 😄
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@SovererignKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/595838#Comment_595838
Using in game items isn’t the same as using out of games programs for help to get stronger. By all means though, live in your bubble.
It's not relevant whatsoever that it's done with third-party applications when there's a post from Peanits in this very thread explicitly stating that it's not cheating or anything near it. It's the most explicitly "whitelisted" any third-party thing can possibly be, no "use at your own risk" like with icon replacements or MLGA or anything like that, but explicitly said to be completely okay.
Go ahead and argue about the balance surrounding it, I agree that there's work to do there (and I support the buff solo info + buff killers that need it approach), but calling it cheating or "basically cheating" is completely pointless as it's obvious that their current stance on the issue is the total opposite.
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Depends. If it's in-game "toxicity" I don't really care at all. And besides, giving them special treatment is exactly what they want in the first place a lot of the time.
If it's someone going completely nuclear in post-game chat (death threats and the like) I just report and move on.
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I always like to have M&A and Enduring on MM, the other two slots can be a lot of things. Ruin, PGTW, Spirit Fury, Brutal Strength, STBFL, BBQ, Infectious Fright, Discordance sometimes.
I like using the best memorial add-on I have + dead rabbit. The tiny terror radius is nice if there's any walls at all to start chases at a closer range when you can.
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Make it for disconnectors instead and I'll be on board with this 😄
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Well you've already accepted comms isn't cheating, and while it is without a doubt an advantage that can be as big as the survivors want there's not much that can be done about it. Said it a thousand times before, but punishments, restrictions and handicaps are honestly a bad idea and pointless. Players that just want to chill and play with some friends will be put off, and the actual ~evil bully squads~ will just queue snipe eachother and drive queue times up for everyone just like people did before SWF was added. The only realistic options are incentives like BP modifiers and the often mentioned buff solos -> buff killers that need it approach.
And on "toxic" (I personally don't think taunt-like actions are inherently toxic, but it's subjective) behavior, restricting it is also pointless. Somehow find a magical solution that removes tbagging and flashlight clicking and people will just popularize something else to take their place if they really want. Maybe it'll be running in little circles, maybe it'll be pointing at the killer more often, maybe it'll be crouching and looking up and down to nod - and once enough people that play in a "toxic" manner adopt the new methods it will be percieved that way by killers that are bothered by tbagging/clicky clicky as well. You genuinely can't stop that sort of behavior unless it's bannable, which it isn't in DBD.
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I mean I miss old Freddy in a way as I had gotten used to him and honestly found him pretty fun to play, but I'm personally enjoying nu-Freddy both as killer and survivor.
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They also didn't ban for Wake Up... or the PWYF, Thanatophobia and Legion Blades V2.0 bugs that were around at the same time.
It seems pretty obvious that after the initial legion blades "incident" they simply decided they don't want to deal with bug-exploit situations like that with bans in the future, at least not on the scale of any of those or the SB one. Not everything is a bias lmao.
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I've always liked the challenges that tend to come with Battlepass systems, always give me an incentive to try something new and some mini-goals to work towards so that's a big plus for me.
And when it comes to stuff like unlocking cosmetics and the like that's cool, you can get them if you want and all. I do firmly believe that battlepass cosmetics should at most be TIMED exclusives and not all-out "get them now or NEVER" though.
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It's a forum, not specifically a feedback-gathering board. Devs certainly browse it and read it but that doesn't mean they will (or even CAN a lot of the time) snap their fingers and fix anything that gets a lot of threads complaining about it.
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@MassiveToggaf said:
I highly disagree with this, even under the guise that it's targeting lower-rank play.
Assuming high rank survivors wouldn't use it simply because it isn't optimal is ignoring swf groups or even just people that enjoy running different builds that could easily use this to grief killers. As said by others Ruin is already gone quickly and another thing commonly complained about is how Killers will just dc if their Ruin is popped immediately. This will just make the problem even worse.
Even if going along with your argument and assuming good high rank survivors wont use it, making it's usefulness only at lower ranks doesnt help anything either. All it would do is build up a reliance on said perk for survivors to find totems. On the low rank killer side of things it would work against new player retention for those that either play killers with base hex perks or those that learn to prioritize Ruin, teaching them how useless the perks are.
I just don't see where it's effective in the long run as it seems to only satisfy those that want to complain about Noed without wanting to learn/acknowledge it's counterplay.
What on earth is the relation between cleansing hex totems/breaking dull totems and "griefing killers"? Sure it sucks to have your hex blown up right away but I don't see how effectively hunting down totems is in any way griefing. I don't see that many killers that DC just because Ruin goes early, and even if I did it's no more my job to ensure they have fun than it's their job to ensure I have fun.
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Lets replace the open hatch with a big red button that just blows up the entire map when someone touches it. Everyone dies (including the killer), but whoever touches it gets 5000 points 😃
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@MrsPiggyIsSoSneaky said:
its funny enough that when you start getting into the high ranks, map RNG becomes very narrow to like Coldwind, haddon, pennys etc, maps that favor survivors a lot, map offerings just ensures they get a survivor favored map to win
Are you just saying people use map offerings more in high ranks or are you actually implying survivor-sided maps are intentionally selected more often by the map RNG there?
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Probably BP cap or map offerings.
Sorry spooky Myers players, you're cool and all, but the same can't be said for the Balanced Landing Haddonfield squads and skillcheck docs burning The Game and parking their ass on a 3gen from the start 😄
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Just make Protection score events actually consistent and it'll be better.
If you really want to use it just bring a good quick medkit and botany knowledge (+ self care if you really want it to last forever) and take hits while the killer is carrying. With that sort of perks and medkit you can heal up in no time and bodyblock hits are at least somewhat consistent in rewarding Protection stacks.
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It's not taking the game hostage, but considering they changed the basement stairs the devs will probably fix the remaining basement entrances that make it possible. When they change the stairs they're clearly not fans of it, but it's not against any rules unless you block all the survivors down there BEFORE EGC gets activated and just wait for them to DC or something.
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It's a big right-place-at-the-right-time sort of thing, and I honestly think that's fine. I still get them, but they're a very opportunistic thing and not something to rely on which honestly only makes them more exciting when they do happen in my eyes.
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@tehshadowman33 said:
Play With Your Food is really good on Wraith for the same reason.
So much this, always amusing if the obsession actually realizes what you're doing too, that moment of realization.
PWYF + windstorm addons = fun. Very VERY fast bing bong boi.
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@Chaotic_Riddle said:
@lindenis I think that’s the point of the discussion. SB is being abused but hasn’t been addressed, nor will anyone be punished for using it, while bugs in the past, like the double blade addon bug for Legion, would cause anyone who was using it to get banned while they were trying to fix it.
They also didn't ban or threaten anyone with bans for using the PWYF, Thanatophobia or second Legion blades bug that were all around when the Wake Up bug was around, or Wake Up itself. It's not bias, they clearly learned that they DON'T want to deal with situations like this with bans after the initial blades bug incident, and instead focus on just fixing the bugs when they can.
Sure people were threatened and banned for the initial blades bug, but no one was for the bugs that were around when Wake Up was bugged, killers and survivors alike. If that's still not good enough then it just seems like you're out for petty "revenge" more than anything.
EDIT: And as said, it was apparently fixed in the PTB so I guess they figured it out and it will be fixed on live soon.
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Honestly on top of what has already been said in the thread, it's just a ... thing with horror media in general. Nothing can stay spooky forever when you experience it over and over again.
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Honestly I just want map changes on both sides.
I hate the safe and safe-ish loops with no LOS breaks, like the ones in the middle of Blood Lodge. You can't even try to actually lose the killer or do anything fancy whatsoever, and as killer a lot of the time you can only try to get the pallet dropped as fast as possible.
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Uncounterable?
If you have a wall nearby, stuff your face in it while you pick them up. If not, just fake the pickup and slug when the flashlighter predictably runs into your view. With the current pick-up speed flashlight saves only happen when there's some serious being in the perfect place at the perfect time going on.
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@Ghostul said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/580221#Comment_580221
Difference is, those were all patched fairly quickly. Does that mean that we will have to wait several weeks for mid-chapter to see a fix? If so, then that means for those several weeks killers will see nothing but sprint burst exploits effectively getting free chase escapes for weeks.
Of course I wish they were fixed ASAP, preferably either with a hotfix or by disabling the bugged stuff until it's fixed if the spread reaches critical mass instead of being a niche thing that a handful of people know. I mean, they disabled the Ormond map when it had problems so it's clearly possible, and the moonlight offerings are retired as well.
I'm more or less just trying to argue against the idea that there's some sort of survivor bias at play, as that is simply not what's happening.
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Fact of the matter is that unless you only ban people that straight up admit it in some way, the most obvious of the obvious ones and the ones that combine it with text harassment post-game you're in bad idea territory. And when I say obvious I mean someone that shows up in a LARGE amount of a streamer's games, and always either brings a perfect counter-loadout or always brings a mori and always just walks right to the streamer's location at the start of the game and tunnels/camps them to death or something. It's incredibly easy to heavily streamsnipe and avoid making it anywhere that obvious.
The moment someone reviewing reports has to DECIDE if someone is streamsniping and it's not blatantly obvious or they break other rules, you can't really ban for it as it can't be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Just look at stuff like the streamsniping ban controversies in PUBG or the whole Ninja-texting-Epic-live-on-stream drama in Fortnite - it's an incredibly easy scapegoat to blame.
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They didn't ban for ANY bugs that were around during the Wake Up! situation. Not Wake Up, but not the PWYF, Thanatophobia or second Legion blades bug either.
They've just decided they don't want to deal with situations like this with bans, instead just try to fix them when they can. It's not that deep lmao.
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@artist said:
breathing is toxic
can confirm, my username here is actually really toxic for a reason 😉
Seriously though, toxicity isn't about stuff you equip. It's about how you act. Toolboxes, moris, keys, instaheals, strong red add-ons - all in the game, you're not a bad person for using them.
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It's "supposed" to be as simple as wiggling on the hook = go do gens, don't come.
But I've heard some say long almost-struggle stretches = getting camped, quicker twitches = come and get me. Just gets sort of confusing. And on the kobe thing, if you are near them, it won't make them struggle and the killer is somewhere else then I guess they just want to see if it happens, or perhaps they are trying to get that one achievement?
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I mean they're straight up making themselves get less distance on you by doing it. If they have iron will and try to juke they are just being smart and actually trying to break chase instead of taking you on a pallet tour guide and never trying to escape, and if they don't just listen to where they're going and it often hurts them more than it helps them.
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I don't enjoy that part of rank reset, vastly outskilling my opponent(s) isn't fun to me.
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Being an idiot shouldn't be bannable, calling someone a cheater in end-game chat is not the same as filing false reports which I assume would be punishable if people do it enough. Obviously if people go full rage goblin and call people slurs and say ######### like suicide encouragement they should be thrown out, and I'm pretty sure they do get banned.
You can hide chat if you want, or just say gg and leave immediately.
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@DarkGGhost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/573224#Comment_573224
Well they don't punish they survivors that use wake up even tho they say tha they know who use it and for what reason
They didn't punish killers that used the Play With Your Food, Thanatophobia or second Legion double blades bugs either, and they were broken at the same time as Wake Up!
It's fairly obvious that they've decided they don't want to ban people for abusing things like that in general, but rather want to just fix it when they can. It's not some cringy bias thing, it's just a change of how they deal with situations like that.
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Just ignore it, if it's not endgame they are not doing anything useful by doing it which benefits you.
If it's during EGC and it bothers you just go afk for a few minutes and they'll leave or die.
If it's endgame but they 99'd gates or whatever and it bothers you go open the gate and then go afk for a few minutes.
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Wouldn't exactly self-describe as a "main" in one way or the other, but killer I play survivor whenever the friend I play with wants to play.
They're both fun in their own way to me.
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Object simply shouldn't work on any killer that for some reason has no terror radius at that moment (and T1 Myers of course).
Ghostface in power, Pig in crouch, Wraith in cloak and I guess Insidious and so on - should all be immune to aura reading to be honest.
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Besides the buff solos -> buff killers that need it approach incentives like this is indeed most likely all the devs will do.
Punishing or trying to restrict SWF in any way is a lost cause. Casual players that just want to play with friends get a sour taste in their mouth, actual tryhard death squads just lobby dodge until they get eachother as "solos". Not to mention on console it's not hard to just make temp voice chats with random teammates you get.
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If someone else is being hard camped, get your ass on a gen the microsecond you realize.
If you are being camped, just hang in there for 2 minutes. I fully support suiciding on hook if your entire team is crouching, pointing and tbagging around the hook instead of doing the smart thing though, they don't deserve your sacrifice then.
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If you die to NOED you already survived to the end, compared to something like getting mindlessly camped with 5 gens still up or proxied and then mori'd you get to play the game a whole lot more.
EGC just exists to force an end to the game. Doesn't care who comes out on top, anything is better than hatch standoffs or "guess I can't win, time to hide for 40 minutes :-D"
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A killer was slugging to prevent hatch (which is fine), but that wasn't enough for them. They came and picked me up to let me wiggle before I bled out, nodded at me as if they were trying to make me rat out the other survivor or something (they were right in hiding, killer was just hovering over me on the ground). I went back on a gen and they went searching, eventually slugged them as well and did the exact same thing, hovering over them expecting me to just feed myself to them.
After they bled out and I got hatch they called us both pussies and called me an idiot for not sandbagging the "antimate". I'm suuuuure you just wanted to punish them, totally 😄
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People that legitimately mindlessly 5-gens-up camp are luckily a minority. 120 seconds on the hook, 80 seconds for a gen - you can still hammer out 3 gens (or at least get close) even with a few missed skillchecks, or freely search for Ruin itself unless it's by the person they're camping.
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Even though I'd personally prefer some sort of secondary objective that has to be the best idea involving longer gen times I've seen. Just all-around extent average game time while not making legitimately mindlessly camping (the sort where the only thing survivors can possibly do is hit gens) a more time-efficient strategy.
I think a lot of the killer changes would be fine even with just those simple map changes too. I especially like the idea that Wraith should have windstorm at base, let him be speedy.
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@AnthonyC2014 It's why it was taken off the whitelist, it was (and is) in no way inherently bannable. Not being on the whitelist just means that IF somehow you get banned for it you're on your own.
Not that I can imagine anyone would get banned for it in the first place. Doesn't interact with the game beyond slapping an overlay on your screen, and its actual functionality is just a specialized network monitoring application.
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EGC simply exists just to put a time limit on the endgame scenario that triggered it. Just like hatch closing simply exists to prevent hatch standoffs.
Nothing more, nothing less.
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Obviously quickly suicided on hook in my first survivor game.
And considering that in my second game as survivor ever there was a mori that was used on me I just thought killers were just showing mercy on me by not killing me off with one for a while.
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Huntress is pretty fun in that regard to me, just go for every stupid long-range hatchet that presents itself to you. You'll miss the majority, slowly get better at them, and when you DO hit a nutty hatchet it feels great 😄
Bonus points if you go full sniper huntress upstairs in the Ironworks of Misery or something.
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It's not toxic, it's POTENTIALLY trading a wiggle for one or several injuries. Unless you're dealing with a map design issue (like the old Thompson House upstairs area), a hook deadzone due to sacrifices or sabotage it will usually take several blocks to get anything done.
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It's 3 years of continuous development, of course a project as big as DBD will have bugs when it's constantly changed.
Even games with physical copies back when you couldn't really patch them had bugs and exploits, if it was a pvp-focused game like a fighting game or something the community simply had to get add rules against abusing it themselves.
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@Boss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/572544#Comment_572544
Didn't they revert those bans?
I thought that was just one incident, did they revert all of them? They certainly posted a ban warning (on Twitter of all places, not sure where else) similar to what they did for the Legion blades exploit in-game.
And did people banned for the Legion blades get anything beyond a "standard" ban as dictated by the system with escalating ban length for repeat offenses or what?