oxygen
oxygen
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Some people are convinced that in-game actions done in the interest of winning is somehow toxic. Not talking about tbagging, flashlight clicking, nodding over a slug until they bleed out or anything like that, but stuff like looping, bringing and using items/add-ons/offerings that are in the game, tunneling, camping, playing SWF... that sort of thing.
They're nothing more than scrubs as what they are pushing is pure scrub mentality. "Anyone that doesn't adhere to my personal rules of conduct are bad players, no matter how stupid my rules are". It's an "useful" mindset to people that can't handle defeat, anyone that defeats you by doing any of the things you dislike? Their victory "didn't count" because they didn't do it "properly", so your loss isn't your fault! AND you're justified in punishing them as well.
It's an incredibly uncompetitive mindset that stifles improvement, but it will always be a thing in any competitive game. Just laugh at it to yourself and move on.
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As long as people play normally and not too many people go out of their way to screw with the newbies via deranking and the like it should be fine. DBD can be a rough game to start with, especially if you're unlucky early on, but the people that enjoy the concept of the game will surely try to learn from their mistakes, research guides and so on.
I very much encourage people to give simple tips if possible though, but that goes for any time matchmaking gets drunk and puts an obviously very new player in a match. Doesn't have to be a dissertation on effective pallet use, but simple things like "be more careful with when you use lockers" or "don't be so scared of getting stunned that you run around the same pallet the entire game".
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I play normally, but then again my regular playstyle would be considered pretty "nice" and "casual" by many players anyway.
I make sure to give simple specific tips if there's obvious things that could easily be improved though. Like if they fast vault all the time or use lockers at bad times, or if they fear pallets to the point where even a single unsafe pallet is basically all you need to run them for several generators. More often than not people seem to appreciate simple tips like that, I know I would LOVE getting more of that when I was starting out.
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It is, at least if we go by the definition of exploit that simply means to use something well and effectively for an advantage. Sorta like "exploiting the land for agriculture", it's not some inherently dirty word. It just so happens that the definition that specifically refers to (ab)using something for an explicitly unfair advantage is the one most adopted within gaming communities over the years.
If anything a "benign exploit" within gaming often goes falls under something else - emergent gameplay. While there's actions that fall right into the "unfair advantage" side of things like the Legion blades bug, Wake Up bug and others, there's also a lot of things in the game that are more comparable to stuff like rocket jumping or all the weird advanced movement mechanics in Super Smash Bros: Melee - things that started out as unintended quirks but were adopted, and in the case of rocket jumping HEAVILY adopted even by later titles in the genre and similar/inspired genres.
Considering a lot of people that consider looping an unfair exploit cite the hitbox differences as the root cause, wouldn't that be fairly simple to fix if the devs considered it explicitly undesirable behavior? The fact it's still a thing makes it seem more like it has been embraced as emergent gameplay if you ask me, just like moonwalking to hide the red stain is and dribbling old DS used to be.
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- Buff/Rework underused perks and add-ons. This would probably take most of the day 😄
- Continue the "tradition" of making more perks scale in a way that makes it less mandatory to have them level 3, like what was done to perks like Ruin, NOED, We'll Make It and so on.
- Add more in-game options. Wider range of sensitivities (this one's for the console players mostly), video settings beyond simple low/medium/high and so on presets, in-game FPS cap/vsync settings, that sort of thing unless it'd horribly break the game in some way.
- "Loadouts" you can save per character, so no matter what you're running you can switch back to that one favorite build of yours easily and quickly as the perk list grow more and more crowded. The same system should and could be used for cosmetic sets as well I guess.
Mostly QOL stuff really.
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I agree that it's a very band-aidy way to go about it, but I guess it's better than the alternative - having NOTHING until they fix whatever the perk is trying to help with. It's probably a lot easier to make and try to balance a perk's values than it is to completely change a mechanic or system in the game.
And also since when was shack an infinite? Or has the definition truly changed to "any structure where it's likely the survivor can use it until the entity blocks the window"? Shack isn't even a super long window loop like something like Ironworks, or a genuine glaring map design flaw like Haddonfield houses combined with Balanced Landing.
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I guess it wasn't really "added", but hatch standoffs were obnoxious. If I had to pick something I guess it'd be that thing they did where flashlight/pallet saves didn't require any sort of timing at all, as it remove all the skill from some actions that actually require some skill. But it was reverted rather quickly anyway.
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@JakeDaSnake said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/635198#Comment_635198
Yeah thanks alot doesn't make sense to be injured though lol
The moment you're grabbed (or as it's called, "Interrupted") by the killer you immediately enter the Dying state actually, not merely injured. Look at your status portrait next time you get grabbed. So by the time you actually hit DS health-wise it's no different to if they picked you up off the ground.
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Have fun and ignore people that whine about it.
Just please don't become one of the ASCENDED brain rot players that complain about survivors breaking your totems or leaving asap when they realize you have it please 😄
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Firstly that's a healthy mentality to have, instead of falling into the trap of scrub mentality and wasting emotional energy at yelling at people for not adhering to your personal rules.
And secondly of course you can play however you want. Just don't be a cringy hypocrite that does things that are commonly complained about and then follow it up with crying about the other side doing the same.
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On the reasonable side it's pointing out that gens can fly by incredibly fast and that some sort of secondary objective would be great if implemented correctly. So criticizing the game or specific systems surrounding generators like completion time, strength of gen regression and effectiveness of stalling tools.
On the unreasonable side it's blaming SURVIVORS for doing their objective effectively. Argue about the balance of time management surrounding generators, it is something that could need work for sure, but blaming players for doing their primary objective as quickly as possible is just plain silly.
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Because the condition for that part of it is "when all generators are completed", just like Bitter Murmur. Meanwhile Adrenaline and NOED has the condition "when the gates are powered". Really no reason beyond that.
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I'm pretty sure I've heard that if you indefinitely refuse to hit survivors and just extend the game as long as you can then it can actually count as taking the game hostage, but don't quote me on that. As infinite T3 I don't see why you wouldn't hit them in the first place considering you can down them in one hit, and it wouldn't take long to eradicate every single pallet near the 3 gens that are left + you vault faster so windows are weaker too.
@Peanits or someone, could you perhaps clarify here? 😄
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@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/632497#Comment_632497
The best killers not 4k ing every match is an issue. If you're that good you shouldn't lose. Like Zubat/Scott you should never EVER see someone escape.
4k should be a flawless and dominant killer victory and shouldn't be common if we assume similar skill levels, and the exact same goes for 4x escapes on the survivor side. You constantly seem to bring up the feeling of a power role and even compared it to F13, but DBD simply isn't what it might seem like in advertisements and such. It's an action game with a horror aesthetic once the initial spooks are over, and it seems to me like it's being actively designed that way too.
@BBQnDemogorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/632506#Comment_632506
There is no such thing as a good survivor imo. :)
Its just running from pallet to pallet, gym to gym and mirroring killer movement if they don't break pallets.
While hoping the other 3 are on gens.
Survivor is super easy as Marth proved with depip squad.
??? can you then please explain why you can have two survivors in a match and one is noticably harder to catch than the other? Even if they have the exact same perks and playstyle? Sure the act of running from structure to structure is pretty much just "run the shortest line to the next place" but if you genuinely believe there's no sort of skill differences between players when it comes to actually PLAYING structures, mindgames, jukes and gamesense then I won't even know what to say.
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Somewhere around 2, this was one thing the old ranking system for killers worked for as 2 kills + 1 hook = 1 pip. Lets be real, the game might have a clear horror aesthetic but outside of how new players experience the game it's just not how it's played by players with hundreds or thousands of hours on record, or designed towards for that matter.
But it's impossible to actually balance the game in a way that makes it consistent or even truly visible in the first place. It's an assymetrical game so any state of balance will lead to different results depending on skill level, skill differential (both killer vs survivor and differences between the skill of the 4 survivors), power modifiers like perks, items, add-ons and offerings (moris, map offerings that give player(s) an advantage and so on).
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I guess in theory they could get the console people to agree with a disable party chat thing, I remember some playlists in old CoD games were like that so it's clearly possible (not sure if it has ever happened on current gen consoles though)
However there is no realistic way whatsoever to enforce the same thing on PC, which just sort of excludes that possibility entirely. And that's on top of the fact I'd probably often mute it anyway as you'd get the usual megaminds blasting music while playing, eating chips in the most distracting way possible or just in general being unpleasant.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/631010#Comment_631010
I have been in those chases as well. It isn't lagswitching, trust me.
I fully agree that a LOT of lagswitching accusations are BS, but it is very much a thing that is possible and that some people do.
If "convenient" lag happens once in a game or something then whatever, it happens. But when someone outplays the killer and then the gamestate freezes as everyone starts running into walls, and when it resumes they immediately teleport onto the killer's shoulder... and this happens THREE times in a single game... with NO connections hiccups otherwise, then it's not very likely that it's just a coincidence.
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Well, nothing will ever beat Huntress for me.
But I also love playing Hag, Trapper, Ghost Face, Myers and Pig.
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Survivor - Red
Killer - Anywhere from purple to red depending on how much I play killer that season.
Besides one exception and the obvious (literal cheating like lagswitching) I mostly find people getting incredibly hostile in post-game chat to be the only truly toxic thing. In-match actions are a big "whatever" to me, but if people feel the need to say straight up bannable ######### in chat because they can't contain their rage then yeah, they should probably get a forced break for both their own good and the good of the people they play with and against.
The exception is people that hold long-term "grudges". I find it incredibly petty and I guess "toxic". Myself I have some guy that hardcore tunnels + proxy camps me with an ivory mori every game I get them because according to them I tunneled them back in February this year. I might have done so even though I generally don't tunnel unless the alternative is ignoring the only survivor I see and it happens to be a recently unhooked one, but jesus christ dude 😄
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Honestly if you get downed as the last survivor the EGC timer should be sped up CONSIDERABLY. As in it runs out in like 10 seconds or something if you're left on the ground, so the killer can pick you up and hook you if they want, or quickly get to see the animation without much waiting around.
And the mindset of people "deserving" it is just silly and petty imo.
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If it's a M1 type killer and they do it and you really want to save just bait a hit when they try to grab you.
If it's a killer with an instadown and ESPECIALLY Leatherface just leave the survivor on the hook and do gens.
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Well, playing a killer that doesn't have a very strong ability like Leatherface or something will kinda force you to refine your good old M1 game. Running structures optimally and tightly, mindgames, knowing lunge ranges and what you can get away with - basic stuff that basically every killer except Nurse will need sometimes.
EDIT: And Nurse sometimes too for some of the things of course, but the actual "running after people" part not so much.
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A SWF indicator, killers buffs to the ones that need it after the solo-SWF gap has been closed more or incentives to play (like extra BP) MIGHT happen.
Handicaps to SWF like repair speed penalties and especially anything that tries to interfere with VOIP apps or whatever will never happen.
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Hacking... isn't allowed though?
If you mean it shouldn't be possible it's not that easy. Anti-cheat and cheats are in a constant arms race. Say what you want about people USING cheats, especially the ones just downloading them without thinking, but the people that actually figure out how to do it and/or write the cheats are not idiots, they know what they're doing just like anti-cheat engineers.
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Their powers should either allow them to hit or "hit" (doctor in treatment) survivors at range, or offer them strong mobility. I absolutely love Hag and Huntress as one is probably the most strategic killer in the game and the other one is endless skillshots, and while I'm awful at Spirit I think she's a brilliant example of how to do a 110 killer as well, at least in concept. Sorta got all the bases covered - a strategic killer that can make half the map hers even though she's slow, a killer that can basically hit you from any range if the map allows it and she's good enough, and a killer that's slow normally but can become a chase monster by using her ability.
I'd love to see more 110ms killers as they seem to come with interesting powers, and all of the true 110ms killers are pretty strong (Hag, Huntress, Spirit). I don't really count Nurse as not only is she straight up slower than survivors without her power, she's just chilling in her own dimension in more ways than one 😄
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You can't know if someone is a survivor main or killer main. I know it must be incredibly hard for you to comprehend since you're participating in the caveman tribalism bullshit, but there's people that play killer that might disagree with you on things.
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Don't blame players for issues that are caused by map design and general balance issues.
If YOU decide to not tunnel, milk the ironworks window for 3 vaults or whatever else that's fair and your decision. Others might disagree and do such things without hesitation, and you shouldn't blame them for using what they have available to win (obviously except if they use straight up exploits/cheats), blame the systems allowing them to do it in the first place. Blaming them for doing something you wouldn't is nothing more than scrub mentality and is completely unproductive.
Same goes for if you do tunnel or whatever and people complain - you made the decision, and it's a legal decision. What they think isn't relevant at all.
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It's not uncommon I just leave to get something to drink and people join and the countdown begins, and I often just stay tabbed out and tab back in when I hear the match starting too. I don't care who I face or get matched together with, but I'm not gonna sit there staring at the "Looking for lobby" screen.
If I AM there I'll hit ready though, but not always the case 😄
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It's less about the perk and more about knowing when to use it. Running to a corner every time you get hurt to self care no matter what even against heavily stacked healing speed debuffs is painful to see people to while you're on the hook or something.
Of course a lot of people do exactly that so it's understandable the perk itself gets the reputation it does. Personally if I'm gonna run it I tend to squeeze the most utility possible out of it by running it with Botany AND a medkit with lots of charges as well so getting hit isn't a big deal unless I go down.
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I honestly don't see the problem with that sort of bodyblocking. Unless you're in a hook deadzone created by either sacrificed survivors or sabotage it will probably take several blocks and it is only worth it if near an open gate. If I don't get a hook but I get 2-3 free injuries that's not that bad.
The only time a single bodyblock is usually a huge problem is flip flop (pretty uncommon perk) or hook greed like a killer trying to take someone to a basement when they can barely reach it in the first place.
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Bond.
It's always useful and especially when playing solo, and I honestly feel naked and lost without it 😄
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@Raven014 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/624052#Comment_624052
Maybe, but then there's still the issue of SWFs having no downside to their communication advantage.
That isn't relevant to the change in any way, shape or form. It's a QOL change and nothing more. It's not like people go "nah I don't want to play SWF because of the constant re-inviting", I don't see how it will increase their frequency in any way. If anything it will speed up killer queues too as even 2mans will spend less time inviting and more time in queue.
And as said a million times actual punishments/handicaps to SWF won't happen, I'm sure the devs are aware it would be a complete waste of time that could ultimately be circumvented by just queuing at the same time if they're geographically and rank-wise close to eachother. Less of a power gap between solos and SWF and then buffing killers that need it is the only realistic way.
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Revert the change that made prayer beads completely mute the phasing sound instead of making it more quiet.
Then make the add-on reduce the phasing sound RANGE(or is radius a better word?) instead. Gets rid of the gen grab frustrations and still lets the spirit get closer and start chases more favorably, and making it easier to get a first hit.
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@AngelKings said:
Thank you! I asked my friend but he said he does not know.
No problem. Back when they had cooldowns and not actually exhaustion you could sprint burst up a hill, jump off and get balanced landing, but that was crazy strong and exactly part of why exhaustion was introduced 😄
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Honestly just add a little sound when a dull is broken. Could use the "stack" sound you hear when you get a stack on a perk that has them, or make a new sound.
So you actually have to pay attention and remember how many "dings" you've heard.
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You only get one exhaustion meter, so whichever you use first blocks you from using the other perk until your exhaustion runs out.
So you can combine all exhaustion perks with eachother except sprint burst and get use out of it. I personally like combining lithe and balanced landing, few people expect a survivor that used Lithe earlier to also have BL.
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Flip Flop is fine for what it does, it does its job consistently if you actually get slugged and CAN be clutch as hell.
Buckle Up does its job too but I'd love to see it buffed. Not sure how though. It's a pretty useful effect but also extremely situational as most of the time you can just kinda guess when someone is fully recovered, unless they are laying still and not recovering for some reason.
Mettle of Man would be greatly helped if protection events were more consistent, and since that benefits the game more in general than specifically buffing MOM by letting it stack off unhooks or something that's the better option.
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Not directly, as in the act itself, but mass disconnecting to derank is probably one of the times it's the most likely you'll get hit by a DC ban.
Not much that can stop people from just running at a killer and suiciding on hook instantly if they really want to though, or killers just picking wraith and standing in a corner or something.
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@Seanzu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/620792#Comment_620792
Here's a 30 minute long video of a nurse who mori spammed everyone and then carried around the 2nd to last survivor around and dropping them continuously for 10 minutes to proc infectious fright to try and find the last survivor.
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/463722850
I suggest watching near the end where she mori spammed the last survivor for the entire EGC timer and then at the last second did the mori. :)
It's epic gamer time.
I'll admit that infectious fright thing is kinda big brain as a concept but that whole clip is just... yuck, lmao.
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The devs explicitly stated on here relatively recently that comms are okay and not cheating. Just look here, click on the date to go to the thread if you want to see the context.
@Peanits said:
Third party programs are only at risk if they are not authorized by us. We have stated in the past that voice chat is okay to use. As a result, voice chat is not cheating.
But assuming it was, how would we enforce this? How can you prove that people aren't communicating with their phones, or by playing in the same room as one another? You would end up in a mess of finger pointing and there is absolutely no way to prove it. We would be banning people purely on speculation, and that is not something we want to do.
The power gap between SWF and solos is something that should certainly be discussed and minimized with the buffs to killers that need it included, but just throwing up your hands and saying it's cheating is pointless and won't do a thing.
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Nah, that's just a cool little tech if you ask me. Same for survivors balancing on the railing and then running back up on the hayball when the killer thinks they can't.
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To use it while playing as Plague so people basically have to work through Dying Light if they want to never cleanse 😄
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Not all SWFs are all on the same page either, and once you get into groups with some level of friend-of-a-friend there can be really clashing mindsets at play.
I pretty much only play in a 2man with a friend nowadays, but for a while it was a 3man. Was all fun and games at first, but this 3rd person that was a friend of my friend had a much more serious mindset than us, and they also had a really short fuse and got angry easily. At first we could just laugh it off and it was all kept between us, but eventually they started talking mad trash in postgame chat as well and chew us out for percieved mistakes we made as well, so we just sorta stopped playing with them.
And of course some people are just ascended and don't care about the context at all. They will DC if they feel like it, they'll probably do it after the queue cooldown punishments as well and leave the rest of their group going "######### bro? We're not waiting around for 30 minutes AGAIN!" 😄
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Huntress and Ace, probably soon Ace/Kate as I'm growing fond of her as well.
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Doing things in-match that aren't straight up cheating/exploiting isn't toxic. The entire list on both sides of commonly complained about stuff like genrush, "infinites" (in quotes because a lot of people use this word where it doesn't apply at all), flashlight clicking, tbagging, camping, tunneling, certain add-ons, moris and so on... isn't toxic.
It's in the game and it isn't bannable to do or use, if people want to use it they can. Claiming otherwise is just straight up scrub mentality and no different from people crying about the AWP in Counter Strike, calling people sweaty tryhards for picking meta heroes in Overwatch - just the same old "I don't like how you play, so your win doesn't count!" crying but with the word toxic attached to it instead of noob, tryhard or any of the other bottom-tier insults that have been used since the dawn of multiplayer gaming. You can't blame someone for using a crazy strong loop and milking it for all it's worth, blame the map design. Just like equipping an add-on or picking a killer you don't like doesn't make the killer some kind of evil monster, if you think something is too strong look at the balance of the game and not the players utilizing the things.
I'm fine with the word being used for the rage goblins that can't let it go and feel the need to say everything from generic "tryhard" or whatever post-game to actual death threats and slur salads though. I've certainly seen more of that from survivors but I don't think there's any deep "survivor mains are bad people!!" reasons to it, it's a combination of the fact it's 4v1 and how survivors can die and be removed from the game early, they can objectively lose before the game is even over which some people don't handle anywhere near well enough. I've honestly not seen a lot of trash talk after 4man escapes compared to how much that comes from survivors that are dead, and if it's a 2k it's usually the dead survivors that complain, if any.
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If TWO people disconnect early I honestly prefer if the killer just kills the remaining two. If anything I'm likely to either go for one last chase and suicide on hook when caught, or straight up spam lockers/vaults near a hook and point at it to do the same. If the last survivor wants to try to get hatch or something they can, but I have no interest in that.
With one DC there's SOME game left and I usually just try to play normally and get some points, with two of them there's no point.
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Fails 95% of the time, makes you feel like a megamind 5% of the time. If you're gonna go down anyway that's pretty good odds 😄
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If someone uses Deliverance assume they have DS as long as there's an obsession. Sure it's frustrating when they do it near a gate and can just run out, but they made it to the end of the match without getting hooked prior so it's not like they didn't have to set it up.
In any other situation it's not that different to them just getting unhooked normally.
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Flashlight saves certainly feel good, especially when it saves someone who would be dead on hook. Guess they might lose the magic if you're better at pulling them off than me though.
And for both sides, completely confusing the other side and outplaying them. Stuff like escaping a loop and seeing the killer think I kept running around it, introducing a survivor to the harvester "tech" or cutting them off in what they thought was a mindless and safe loop, that sort of thing. For a moment I feel like a megamind, at least until I mindgame myself into oblivion 20 seconds later 😄
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So the devs intentionally try to make everyone angry? And PERKS can be toxic by themselves?
Yeah, no.