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I'd rather have some way to restore tokens, especially on Distortion. Not sure what action would make sense to attach to it though. It's still pretty handy, and if the killer has Nurses Calling it's basically Poised on demand if you have a medkit/self-care which I absolutely love. It's so incredibly gimmicky that no one expects it, and unless they quickly swap over to tracking you with blood you're gone 😄
And Diversion could use a shorter "charge" time, even bringing it down to 30 seconds would be a nice quality of life change. Either that or just put it on a cooldown as it's a fun perk encouraging trickery and actually avoiding detection/breaking a chase.
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Funnily enough, Trapper.
Absolutely love playing him, but as a survivor I'm a complete trap magnet. Sure I'll play around common trap spots, but when Trappers pull out their weird and unexpected spots... if you've got me in your match, your feet are safe. As I'll find a way to step in every single one of them 😄
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@Carlosylu said:
Depends on what helps the team, if you're a lame runner for F's sake hide and avoid us the need to carry you all game, but if you're a good runner/looper, hell yeah mate, run the killer for at least 3 gens to get an easy W.
Basically this right here.
If you're the strongest runner/looper in the lobby and you know it (playing SWF for example) it's probably more beneficial if you just try to run the killer for as long as possible. It's not even "toxic" to try to get the killer's attention in such a case, it's simply the right play. Even if you don't KNOW, if you're feeling confident (and the confidence is grounded in reality 😄) and the killer decides to chase you it might be beneficial to just run them
If you're less skilled/confident at that then breaking chase is a lot more valuable overall, as the time lost by the killer if they lose you might be a harsher hit than the time it'd take them to down you. It's also VERY handy to still know how to attempt to break chase, as against something like a sufficiently skilled Nurse it can quickly become your #1 option by a big margin.
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Doesn't give any advantage so I don't care, even though in my eyes it completely defeats any fun you might get out of achievements.
If the devs deemed it a problem they could make the achievements "serverside" as that's the way to defeat the common method used to spoof achievements. There's certainly some variables that should be secured in such a way due to a deranking exploit that might or might not still exist.
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When you've played online games for long enough it sort of stops being anything special. I rarely remember anything for long unless it's particularly creative (the arguably funny sort of trash talking) or if someone turns into a red-hot ball of uncontrollable rage and straight up breaks rules with death threats/encouragements and the like. In which case you just report and move on.
It doesn't excuse the behavior in any way, and while I know it's not quite like that for everyone I have MANY years of desensitization behind me and it worked out that way for me 😄
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@Ukonvasara said:
@ElusivePukka dude, the highest ranked survivor was rank 11. I'm rank 16 ffs
5 rank difference isn't really that extreme, there's a reason that during rank reset essentially the entire playerbase is in MM range of eachother as everyone is somewhere in the 20-10 rank range.
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I can't think of any easily testable add-on chains that have moderately, considerably and tremendously variants, so I'm quite curious about this too. I'd imagine they'd still stack to whatever the value ends up as, you can stack "Considerably increases luck" offerings way past what a "Tremendously increases luck" offering would logically be afterall.
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@Tzeentchling9 said:
"But then experienced killers would be matched up against noob Survivors."
"Please ignore SWF abuse to have experienced Survivors go against noob killers though."
I don't mean to ignore it at all, I believe that's a problem and that the people knowingly abusing it are cowardly and uncompetitive scrubs. The way matchmaking handles SWF parties has to be changed to prioritize the higher rank(s) in the party for matchmaking.
But this is a thread about individual killer rankings, not matchmaking in general.
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Should be some limitations, but I'm pretty much just thinking of keeping people out of the 20-16 range when they really shouldn't be there.
Killers share enough basic mechanics for skills to transfer to some extent, especially when it comes to killers that can be called "m1 killers". Taking rank 1 movement (as in running structures properly), game sense and mindgames to rank 20 would be a massacre.
All I'm saying is that if you get high enough as any killer you'll probably be fine starting at rank 15 or something instead of rank 20 when you give another killer a shot 😄
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@snowflake102 said:
I was just curious if anyone ever tryed this
I haven't because I personally believe "playing for salt" even as a test is petty at best, and incredibly pathetic at worst.
Obviously you'd get the same amount of salt as if you did it... not as a test? So depending on the survivors you go against they might just shrug and move on, leave a quick remark, or go full rage goblin on you. Depends on the person in question.
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He said it himself he messed up at the start though, once he actually caught someone the game changed completely. Of course gens go extra fast when there's absolutely nothing else for the survivors to do.
I totally want some sort of secondary objective beyond totems as holding m1 on gens is pretty damn boring, but it's sort of a given that survivors are at their strongest at the very start of the game. No resources used, killer not chasing anyone yet and all 4 alive and active.
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The end game collapse isn't concerned with helping one side or the other. Sometimes it screws the survivor(s), sometimes it screws the killer.
Its only purpose is to add a system that can put a hard time limit on a match, to avoid "the only winning move is not to play" situations like hatch standoffs and survivors crouching around the map for a century.
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No. Survivors are mechanically identical between SWF and solos, and trying to directly attack the real advantages (communication and knowing the people you're playing with) is a complete and utter waste of time and resources.
A lot of frustrations can be mitigated by taking a look at problematic maps and map sections, and while it's a work in progress the Badham variants make it clear the devs want to go down that route. Combine that with a possible attack on the inequality of available information by making solo players have the knowledge needed to be more efficient + killers changes to compensate, and you're on the right path.
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Pretty sure the red stain thing is something that happens when you select a certain graphics quality setting, which obviously isn't available on consoles.
Other than that I'd say it's mostly performance differences, as well as the different input method (controllers) and the more restrictive nature of the way you look around with a controller, especially with the range of sensitivity options. I see a LOT of people wanting the ability to get their sensitivity higher on console.
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Anyone that understands the game, killer or survivor, realize that during endgame there's probably going to be camping unless the killer feels confident they can get someone else or if they choose not to.
Until that point truly camping makes you give up on trying to prevent generators from being done, once the gates are powered there's no generators to protect anymore. At that point in the game people should EXPECT to be camped, which is why it's when perks like BT and DS are at their strongest.
And obviously what they said to you isn't okay no matter who says it. Argue about regular trash talk as much as you want, but the truly vile garbage (death threats/encouragement, hard slurs and so on) have no place in postgame chat ever.
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It's not happening. Anything that punishes people for playing with their friends or applies limitations like that simply won't happen.
Only things that are remotely realistic are the good old buff solos -> buff killers that need it approach or incentives for killers that don't impact gameplay like BP modifiers.
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On the "easy mode" thing, it's just a common thing in competitive games to value mechanical skill over all other forms of skill. Look at games where people that play support/healer characters get #########, even though they have an entire world of on-the-fly prioritization/"triage", game sense, positioning and more to deal with. But none of that matters, the skill of the person that's good at moving their crosshair onto the head of the enemy players or whatever is viewed as worth more.
Same in DBD. There's no denying that killers like Nurse and Huntress can be pretty intensive when it comes to mechanical skill, while more "subtle" skills relevant to both sides like mindgames, map knowledge, prioritization and others (more "mental skills") are valued less. It's an unfair generalization at best and straight up elitism at worst, but it's an old phenomenon.
People do indeed also have personal victory conditions that don't really match with what the devs seem to intend. Killers that want a 4k or survivors that rush gens to escape aren't "sweaty tryhards", but if they get annoyed when they DON'T achieve their personal goals it can be a mindset that makes them frustrated when they don't have to be. It's a game where sometimes you just get screwed. Maybe you get Haddonfield as a killer vs a team of balanced landing and instaheals or you get found, chased and hooked first by a killer that patrols and tunnels you to death with a mori. It just happens.
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Nurses that start nodding/straight up headbanging with one of the wedding veil cosmetics. So it flops all over the place.
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Can't really be removed. The really vile garbage (death threats/encouragement, hard slurs) is already bannable and pretty easily identified, more general trash talk makes it a moderation nightmare to draw a line that determines exactly where it goes "too far".
In-game "toxicity" probably comes from scrub mentalities more than anything, especially the "vigilante" toxicity where someone sees the way that someone else is playing as against their personal rules of conduct and decide to punish them for it. Petty and pointless stuff, but I guess it's convenient to blame everything on someone that plays in a way that doesn't break any rules but they personally dislike.
And there's some people that just do it by default. Either because they're just trolls, or they're one of the people that take the perfectly valid statement of "i'm not responsible for my opponents' fun" and twist it into "i'm proud of ensuring i'm as obnoxious to play against as humanly possible"
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If someone calls that tunneling they're morons. I'm well aware there's people that call it tunneling if they just happen to get hooked twice in a row, even if the hooks are 2 entire minutes apart or something.
But what I hope most people associate with tunneling is the killer immediately returning to the hook without fail upon an unhook, especially when combined with proxy camping. It's not against any rules and there's no problem with a killer doing it if they want, but it's 100% understandable people complain about it as it's not very fun or interesting to be on the recieving end of it whatsoever.
People can run anti-tunnel perks and even an instaheal if they want to make it costly to tunnel them. And if a killer genuinely tunnels it would incredibly hypocritical of them to complain about a survivor coming prepared for it, so if they do so they can safely be ignored.
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Iron will can help and you can get pretty tricky with any vault. Slow vaults, quick vaults into slow vaults, it can get pretty confusing for her.
But regardless my #1 tip by far is to remember to make a generous sacrifice to your luck-related deity of choice and making it part of your daily morning routine.
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While I personally feel happy with a match if it was fun/exciting and especially if I got a lot of points, I recognize that's not a very quantifiable metric at all. Some have fun feeling like they spooked people as mirror Myers, some have fun by doing stuff that'd be considered "toxic" by a lot of people. It's too subjective.
If I had to pick a more "objective" thing to define as a win it would be something in the realm of 2-3 kills as killer, similar to what gave killers a pip when that was what the "killer cube" measured.
As survivor the obvious choice is escaping as an individual, beyond that I don't have any "hard" definitions at all.
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I play solo when I want to play survivor and no friends can/want to play. About as straightforward as it gets I guess 😄
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Pretty sure kb+m on consoles is a question for the consoles and not DBD in particular. I know it's obviously pretty controversial in some genres but unless games can opt out of console kb+m support I don't think anything would get in your way.
Not really a fair comparison. There's a difference between something without a clear answer/"use at your own risk" like kb+m on consoles, MLGA, custom icons and all of that, and something that has been explicitly confirmed as okay by the devs (voip applications).
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That's randomness for you.
There's a reason there has been examples of randomization systems being adjusted to actually be LESS random in the past. Because random patterns sometimes produce seemingly non-random ones just by chance.
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Technically it's okay as they can start EGC to end the game but if you actually did it for two hours instead of just hitting the guy I'm gonna have to ask how on earth is that even remotely worth it?
They could've left, you could've hit them instead of blocking them. Both sides were absurdly over the top stubborn in your example. If you just want to see the animation you could've played several games in the time you stood there, and if it's to "punish" them for some wrongdoing then that's insanely petty. At BEST.
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Seems more similar to juggling the obsession to the hook during old DS than anything else to me.
Besides, it does waste time and makes it less likely the killer can intercept a gate opening if they want to do so. And if they don't (and just camp/proxy camp the survivor they hooked) the others can just leave for free or try to organize a save with minimal threat.
Does it suck to be on the recieving end of it? Of course. But at that point you've already lived until endgame, there's way more unfun things a killer can do to you if they really want to, earlier in the match.
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There's things I believe have no place in the game (instaheals, ebony moris, prayer beads, omegablink, keys and some others) yet I still use them at times. The fact it's grounded in my firm "if it's in the game and working as intended, it's fine to use it" mindset in no way makes it any less hypocritical, especially as I get annoyed when facing them.
I also hate getting slugged and especially slug builds, yet I still do a fair bit of slugging myself.
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Because if one player in a SWF party is "toxic" it's likely they all are. If you've ever played SWF with someone who is like that while you're not you know that you probably won't want to play with them for long as "toxic" players are usually quite negative and quick to get angry which isn't fun if you're a more laid-back player.
And that's without getting into negativity bias and the fact you've probably played plenty of SWFs that you didn't even notice were SWF in the first place and therefore your perception of them isn't entirely accurate.
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You're completely right. Balancing mistakes happen and things are over/undertuned, and they might not be adjusted quickly, but there's no intentional bias. And I am not saying the game is perfectly balanced (it CAN'T be, it's an assymetrical game. there will always be optimal picks in every category)
But a lot of people will just pretend they didn't read the title of your thread because it's more convenient to blame some percieved bias in design than actually reflect on their own gameplay.
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@Micheal_Myers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/650289#Comment_650289
Well I'm just saying it's what happened in the game -shrugs- They litterally gen rushed but yeah you're right they should have crawled apart.
And? Gen rushing is no more of a "crime" than what you did, both things are perfectly fine and within the rules of the game. The speed generators can be completed at is a DESIGN discussion, not something you should blame other PLAYERS for.
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I mean if they were too dumb to crawl apart so you couldn't guard all of them and they could easily pick one up, that's their fault. What you're doing breaks no rules and is therefore okay to do.
On the flipside it's also okay for them to loop, genrush and coordinate. Feeling the need to say they did that as if you're "punishing" them for that or something is kinda hypocritical at best, and pure scrub mentality at worst. You're honestly better off not trying to "justify" why you did what you did.
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@DBDbuildsYT said:
I agree, I am absolutely sure it is a matchmaking move not a question of numbers.
I think the matchmaking is rigged against killer to favour survivors and reduce lobby dodging.
Survivors didn't like lobby dodge?
Devs acted in a way where killer have to wait before creating a lobby to reduce dodging.
That's my opinion
It's just a system more similar to what they would've put in once dedicated servers are implemented regardless. Personally the fact it has MASSIVELY reduced how often I end up in lobbies where there's 3 survivors and a 4th survivor never ever joins makes it pretty great in my eyes.
Not everything is some evil survivor bias scheme lmao.
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I wouldn't say it simply "rewards failure", it's an endgame perk. A perk that one person says counters something is a perk that rewards failure to another person.
NOED can counter people ignoring totems and rushing gens, and at the same time it DOES grant the killer instadowns and a speed boost if they don't prevent the last gen from being done. Decisive Strike can counter people that tunnel, and it also rewards the survivor for going on the hook with the ability to get out of any pickup/grab for 60 seconds.
There's nothing inherently wrong with something that could be considered failure being used as a condition for a perk's activation.
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@Catbucket said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/645609#Comment_645609
and then you fight plague and cry.
I'm already used to that, every time I decide to bring out an "Everlasting Medkit" build it summons a plague anyway.
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A straight up "If I can't have it NO ONE CAN!", wow.
I really wish consoles could get PTBs as well, but getting new patches pushed out on console is a whole lot more complicated than doing it on PC. A PTB isn't some simple hotfix, and there could be SEVERAL subsequent patches during the PTB. Both the usual ones that tend to tweak values, and potentially completely unplanned ones because someone found some obscure way to crash the game or something equally critical.
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I for one welcome the bizarro world where people actually get huffy about someone else with Inner Strength beating them to the totems 😄
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Someone called me a cuck of all things for killing them after they tried to screw another survivor over for me. Not as in "run past them to see if I went to them instead", but as in "stalking a chase and intentionally dropping pallets on the other survivor in an attempt to get them killed".
Of all words, why cuck? I guess it's the first word that comes to mind for some people 😄
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You can still be nice (if you want to) even though you run strong killers/builds.
If you notice you're in a match of newbies you can play around with them as they are quite easy to spot. Simple things that give them more of a fighting chance like giving them an extra chance here and there, not going for the potential game-ending slug chain in front of you, that sort of thing.
You're of course under NO obligation to actually do this and I don't mean to imply that at all, it's absurd to complain about people playing normally even if it leads to utterly crushed newbies. If you do that you'll rank up and away from them naturally. I fully agree that people that intentionally try to squeeze into ranks they don't belong in specifically to grief newbies (or regular low rank players for that matter) are completely uncompetitive scumbags, but until avenues of deranking and the way matchmaking handles SWF parties with rainbow rank spreads are fixed it's not really an issue that can be resolved.
You can choose how you act, but sadly we can't choose how cowardly scumbags act.
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If anything it just sounds like it's being inclusive as not all vaults are windows. There's low fences, the logs you can vault on the swamp, railings and a whole lot more things that allow for vaulting afterall. I feel that when talking about vaulting dropped pallets in particular they would specifically refer to "pallet vaulting" or "vaulting pallets" in some way.
There's no point blocking pallet vaults because the killer can break the pallet.
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Bond, Adrenaline and Iron Will.
Bond simply gives you a crazy amount of information and is useful for every type of build that has room for it.
Adrenaline is (in my opinion, it has its own controversy surrounding it for sure) a perfect example of a properly designed "one use, strong effect" perk.
Iron Will actually allows you to avoid detection against a killer with a functioning pair of ears even while injured. I feel incredibly naked without it, it's also a perk that can be particularly good against some of the strongest killers - Nurse and Spirit.
Honorable mentions to Borrowed Time, Spine Chill, Decisive Strike, Balanced Landing, Dead Hard and Object of Obsession (if used properly)
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I don't blame people for disconnecting if they get trapped in some weird way that EGC can't possibly resolve, and I've experienced two situations like that.
Firstly there was a now fixed bug/exploit where survivors could make the killer land on their head below certain dropdown-holes. For me it was the hole on the Pale Rose boat, I got trapped there as a killer that couldn't do anything about it and after being stuck there for 10 minutes (all other survivors had left, this was pre-EGC) I just made sure to record evidence and then quit as it's a waste of time.
Secondly I've had the bug where you get stuck inside a locker a few times. At that point you are basically taking the game hostage if you DON'T disconnect, as there's no way for you or the killer to get you out as far as I know.
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While there's obviously more "obvious" aspects like knowing how to run different structures optimally as well as backup plans if the killer knows how to deny them the optimal route (like killers not giving them the optimal path on TL walls or the pig tree), a lot of it comes down to quick and correct prioritization.
Know when to heal and when to not, know when to run and when to try to avoid detectionm, know what gens to do first and which to avoid, know if they can make another round in the loop they're in or if they should drop the pallet - that sort of thing. As well as obviously not instantly dropping everything to race everyone else for every unhook.
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It happens, any game with anything resembling a team will have a lot of it. I see everything from reasonable "infighting" like people yelling at a sandbagger or someone who already starts to play for hatch after a single survivor dies, to ridiculous bullshit like people letting others die because they "wasted time doing a dull totem" or "wasted a pallet".
But blaming the other side is just scrub mentality at work. Blame the other "team" in some way and suddenly your loss doesn't count. The killer tunneled so they didn't "really win". The survivors brought strong items so they didn't "really win". It's as old as games with winners and losers, a way for people that can't handle defeat to avoid having to look at their own mistakes. And that's without getting into the rampant "us vs them, with us or against us" mindset some people in this community subscribe to.
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Remember that EGC didn't always exist. Back then if the hatch didn't exist survivors could just hide for as long as they wanted if they decided to do so, and as long as they sometimes touches a gen here and there you couldn't even claim they were taking the game hostage and not trying to actually win either.
Remember what happened before when everyone but one survivor died with 5 gens still up? Some people did actually try to do 2 gens and get the hatch, some people simply ran to the killer to die, but there were people that would just hide. Creep along the edge of the map, locker hop in the basement forever or something else. Original hatch was terribly flawed because of the hatch standoff, but it was basically the original "make a game the killer already decisively won end sooner rather than later" mechanic, and that's without getting into the more lore-based stuff surrounding the Entity giving the survivors hope to feed on and all of that.
Because that's the thing - if you've already killed 3 survivors (ESPECIALLY with more than 3 gens still up) you've already decisively won. With the old killer pip system it was 100% guaranteed you had pipped as well since a pip was 2 kills + 1 hook (ignoring DCs and moris I guess). Double pip / 4k isn't supposed to be the regular win condition, it's supposed to be an extra decisive victory, a TOTAL defeat for the survivors.
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Just like with camping that's something you should blame the other survivors for feeding.
If the killer is really willing to tunnel you off hook and just hang around while waiting out DS that's basically the same as getting 60 seconds extra on the hook. If I saw a killer do that and not even really go for any chases, just hanging around the slug waiting to pick them up... I'd just go on a gen. 60 seconds = 75% of a gen.
And besides it's always hilarious when killers actually do this but pick you up just a bit too early when you have like 2 seconds left on your DS. All that waiting for nothing 😄
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It's always going to be useful (unless you're Nurse) but enduring is just all around better as it makes you a whole lot more dangerous on unsafe pallets while Brutal Strength requires you to kick them to get use out of the perk.
I find it really good on Clown though. Get a bottle on the survivor so they're hindered as you kick the pallet with BS and it can cut down the distance they put between themselves and you by a pretty noticable chunk.
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inb4 someone going "wait it's not okay when it's the other way around 😡"
Rule #2: Survivors should break chase and stealth instead of looping, as it's annoying timewasting to be forced to run around pallets all game.
Rule #3: Survivors shouldn't be immersed or hide from the killer effectively, as it's annoying timewasting to be forced to look for Blendettes all game.
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@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/642730#Comment_642730
We need shirtless LF.😏
Don't leave Clown out of the fun 😥
And on topic.
- NOED is fine. It can feel anti-fun, but at the time you get "robbed" by it you've already gotten to play most of the match and it's one of the few situations where the word "entitled" feels fitting to me.
- Old Freddy was by no means a top tier killer, but he was MUCH better than the bottom-of-the-barrel F-tier placement a lot of people assigned to him.
- There's no intentional survivor or killer bias among the developers.
- Nothing done in the interest of winning is really "toxic" as long as it's within the rules of the game. Obviously includes looping, tunneling and the usual suspects, but even tbagging/flashlight clicking can arguably be a real strategy if it's done by a skilled survivor trying to get the killer's attention to benefit the other survivors. The same goes for super hard/"face"camping against an extremely altruistic no-man-left-behind team of survivors.
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@LordGlint said:
I have video proof that Leatherface is OP and MUST BE STOPPED!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeInSY1Khnw
@GrootDude figured youd like this...
That doesn't even begin to illustrate the raw POWER of Bubba
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8XcQoJHauA32 wins in a row!? Truly outrageous, I wish the elusive Leatherface Elites shared their closely guarded secret rituals with us plebs so we could use all of his hidden potential as well. He's low tier so clearly it has nothing to do with the skill of the people playing the killer and survivors 🙂
But on a serious note directed at the original post in the thread.
- It's a youtube video, so there's no way to know if he had games where he got steamrolled between the ones showcased
- Just... look at the killers. Killers that run T/L walls the wrong way, killers that don't even TRY to do anything but hold W when running shack, killers missing a bunch of hits, constantly respecting pallets no matter how many times he doesn't drop them...
- And of course, noob is a really good survivor.
As cynical/jaded as it is I'm honestly surprised no one quoted the first reply in this thread to reply "but he's "toxic"/used to be toxic so his skills don't count" or "survivor takes no skill".