jesterkind
jesterkind
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I like these changes quite a bit! Doesn't go over board, buffs what needs buffing and reworks some of the more annoying stuff. I'd be sad to see the Broken pin go, but what replaces it looks pretty solid!
@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2579213#Comment_2579213
Tat, I reckon you have a line to Almo so you might know something, but that does not mention a buff.
They say specifically Legion is on the list to look at. That language does not necessarily mean a buff. They just "looked at" slinger. How'd that shake out for him? Ghost face got an add-on pass that was an overall nerf you could argue.
To this, though: Why would that be relevant? They "looked at" Slinger because he was obnoxious and unfun to play against, not because he was weak and needed buffing. He does, but that wasn't what the point of their changes were. Legion isn't in that spot so there's little reason to assume they'd be overall nerfed, or even given the same treatment as Slinger where they're shuffled a bit so they're the same strength with a little more caution. Needless negativity, not constructive to this conversation.
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I can't think of any licenses I'd want to see come to the game as a full on new Killer, mostly because I'm not that familiar with horror, but I'd love to see more skins along the same lines as the Crypt TV skins.
Complete pipe dream, but I'd actually spend money on cosmetics for the first time if they did a Grand Highblood from Homestuck for Oni, or a Damara Megido for Spirit...
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Definitely going to further support the idea that survivors not only have NOED equivalents, they have considerably more than one- and unlike NOED, their second chance perks are actually good.
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@chargernick85 said:
I faced of against the other one yesterday. Got RPD with Blight (FML) and there were 2 survivors left and I lost them like they vanished. The Boon was on the 2nd floor library (So the third level) which I didn't even know existed. So pretty much it effected 3 floors and it took me a while to find it since I knew nothing about the 2nd floor of library. Eventually found it and killed them but was def a pain in my ass.
In fairness, that's more of an RPD problem than a Boon Totem problem. That map sucks.
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@Thrax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2578591#Comment_2578591
never mind they screw something up and save people a little frustration that's just asking way more than anyone should
...But that's not what the system is for. They've alerted people that it's bugged and they're fixing it, but if they kill switched everything with a bug in it half the game would be disabled.
That in itself is certainly something you could criticise, but doing so would be missing the point that the killswitch is for game-breaking bugs and unfair exploits. That's what it's for.
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Elodie's new outfit is pretty sick, too. Feng and Elodie have probably the best stuff here, but honestly, I kinda like all the new skins.
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The way that I see it, TotH is now a different kind of perk than it was before. It's not a totem defence perk anymore, but to be fair, it was never especially fantastic at being that- instead, it's now a slowdown perk to counter boon totems. It doesn't lose tokens when a totem is blessed, so it's effectively permanent slowdown on the bless action as long as the totem stands, and if they choose to go for that totem it slows them down on that too.
If you're confident you're going to be seeing boon totems, TotH is a pretty decent pick. Not overwhelmingly good, but it does its job and gives you the leeway to patrol and interrupt.
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Instadown killers/perks are also a solid pick. Stuff like Make Your Choice or possibly Iron Maiden (slightly more usable with the Built To Last buff, I've seen a fair few people running BTL myself), or you could try and protect a Devour which does still seem to be possible if you're lucky with the totem spawn.
Or play Plague. Now's a great time to get into her in general, since she feels so much nicer to play, and either the survivors cleanse and give you a really strong ranged power or they stay Broken and can't use CoH. Win/Win!
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I don't see why they would disable it? The disable function is for game-breaking bugs and unfair exploits that players can go out of their way to use for their own advantage, and the VHS Tape is neither of those.
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Because too many auras would be confusing even for established players, and completely unapproachable for newer players. Maybe one or two more for niche effects, but honestly, the three we have are pretty decent.
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Sure, sometimes I get rolled by good survivors, but I'm ostensibly a good killer, it isn't super fair for me to roll over newbies either. It is what it is, the system is adequate.
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@VerneV_TTV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2567801#Comment_2567801
and what do you think the "core" idea is.
As already explained, the core idea is to continually drag survivors away from generators and out of position. That isn't achieved if their perk isn't continually available.
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Boons really haven't changed the viability of hexes. Honestly, I'd go so far as to say that boon totems are a very slight buff to the staying power of hexes since you have longer to interrupt a cleanse if that's your inclination.
The only criticism I agree with is that Plaything and NOED really should snuff a boon to make room if they have to, it's not as though survivors couldn't just go bless it again as though it had been snuffed manually.
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Nah, I don't really care if someone brings a key in. The most I think now is the exact same as if someone brings in a map- some variation "oho someone's a gamer".
Honestly, I like seeing a key! Means it's not a medkit or a toolbox.
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@Sabby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2576627#Comment_2576627
Then what is the point if even making this addon if it does not kill them as they already get a 100% chance to remove if they hit all the boxes each box being 25% chance.
Because the """nerf""" they're talking about is a bug, and they're being cheeky.
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I dunno, that might be kind of busted. This seems like it's probably a pretty decent addon to combine with others, like the Exhausted addon for survivors wearing traps, or the addon for revealing auras when survivors work on generators.
It's not the best iridescent addon in the game, but it fulfils the requirement of changing the playstyle and let's all remember that the floor is rock bottom for bad iri design. This one's passable.
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Rework. It's not a totem defence perk anymore, it's a slowdown perk. I don't think it's significantly weaker or stronger than it was before, but it does have the benefit of now actually having its own niche instead of being Undying But Worse.
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To everyone who's disappointed that DBD is only getting a charm, consider: None of the other crossovers have gone both ways, it's always been something from one property being put into DBD and nothing from DBD being put into that property (save for the Meg scream in RE8)
Makes sense it'd be the same when it happens the other way around, right?
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@Seiko300 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2565819#Comment_2565819
This is actually a really good way to explain this topic. Well done +1
Even if it's already been said before, I agree that Boon Totems aren't balanced the exact same way that Hex Totems are. Hex: Totems provide you with extremely powerful, game changing abilities that affect all survivors across the entire map. Their entire balance is based around the "risk vs. reward" model- you get a really great and powerful perk, but in exchange you run the risk of it being eventually destroyed permanently at some point during the trial.
Whereas Boon Totems provide the aforementioned "safe havens" smaller areas of limited space where a survivor is blessed with positive effects, and though they are strong, they aren't as strong as their Hex Totem counterparts comparatively speaking. They're not only restrained by their limited range- but also in that they take time to set up not just in physical action speed, but also in the time it might take to run across the map to get back to a totem that you had previously blessed.
Not to mention that Boon Totems are easier to find than their Hex Totem counterparts. as there's a wide audio that extends to a range of 24 meters. Killers are notified more or less exactly where a boon totem exists, and given that they move faster than survivors do, it really doesn't take all that much to find it quickly and stamp it out in only a second or so. So I don't fully believe all that "UgH ItS AnOtHeR KiLlEr ObJeCtIvE tO wAsTe TiMe" from what I've heard it really doesn't take all that much to be passing by as killer and quickly get rid of it.
Let me put it this way: if Boon Totems are going to be treated the same way as Hex Totems, I expect they get the same positive treatment as well. Meaning perks like Circle of Healing should be mapwide affects, allowing all survivors to heal themselves without a medkit at 100% speed until the associated Boon totem has been cleansed. Boon Totems should also not exude a 24 meter audio cue, and killers should instead be able to find them based solely off the small crackle of fire that survivors must keenly listen for to find Hex: Totems.
So tell me: is that what you guys want? Fair is fair after all. (Seriously, it feels like I'm talking to kids here.)
If you want Boon Totems to get the same treatment as Hex Totems, then by all means give it. But don't think for a second that this does not come with its downsides for the players that seek these changes in the first place.
I also think this is just part of that Infamous Dead By Daylight Community Knee Jerk Reactions outcry that the community has made itself so well known for, update after update, patch after patch, year after year. Give it a few weeks and we'll see what it's like afterward.
It's important to remember that the community has to be mindful of the feedback it gives, especially feedback based on little to no experience which should probably be taken with a grain of salt in most cases.
(Although not all cases, I'm extremely skeptical about the Deathslinger changes and think there's a reasonable enough case to say they should probably be reverted without needing too much more extensive testing for example).
Thank you! Appreciate the kind words :3
Speaking to it not taking that much time- I've found that a survivor will intentionally run towards their totem to make use of Shadow Step, or to try and lose me so they can heal themselves again, so if you're good enough at chase (or not stymied by god loops, to be fair) you can take a few seconds to snuff the totem after downing them. I consider it a similar downtime-action to, say, reloading as Slinger or Clown, something to do after you've gained pressure by downing or hooking someone.
Once the novelty wears off and we see fewer people gunning to use them recklessly (and once all the totem spots are snuffable...) I'm sure this mechanic is going to be a pretty fun one to play around. I also like the knock-on effect of encouraging non-aura reading tracking perks, since those don't get used as often.
The mechanic could do with some tweaks but honestly, I like it so far.
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@Mr_K said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575840#Comment_2575840
Ok, so it plays when you pickup the last trap. Rather it be when you try to pickup another while full (or not at all really).
Yeah, it plays after you finish picking up a trap that puts you at capacity- so your second trap, without addons.
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To be fair, they might also be crashing instead of actually DCing.
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@Mr_K said:
Getting confused by some of the responses.
In the PTB it was played with every trap pickup. Does it only play if he can't carry anymore now?
Are you sure? I'm pretty sure even in the PTB it was when he hit his top amount, and it only played on every trap pickup because from what I know most Trapper players keep one on hand at all times.
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Mid to late twenties seems a decent guess, considering the average age of other kpop stars (to my knowledge).
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I agree with OP's assertion, but I think it'd be unwise to leap straight to "nerf it into the ground". The top tier perks should be nerfed a little and underperforming perks should be buffed a lot so that there's more variety without making it so survivors have no good options.
Most of the top tier perks aren't even that much of a problem on their own. Take Unbreakable- if the only meta perk that someone runs is Unbreakable that perk is much more fair, but combining it with all the others makes for an extraordinarily safe survivor experience and opens up fairly obnoxiously aggressive plays.
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It's not that bad, it's nice to know you've hit your trap limit with an audio cue for newer players, but it is a little strange. He almost sounds displeased to have that many traps lmao
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@latinfla4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575332#Comment_2575332
Yeah it seems thrill and whispers has helped out more thanks 😊
Yeah lethal is a good suggestion but I feel if I use corrupt at the same time I am down 2 perks for the rest of the match.
Yeah, it's a case of if you want to know for sure where they are, or if you want to slow them down at the start- I don't know that I'd advise running both.
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@divineavenger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575444#Comment_2575444
In general you are right, but this update is like give a huge buff to survivors and force killers to settle for lesser perks.
Honestly I won't like to play killer anymore, wraith got nerfed, these boons and mmr and the whole concept of being killer is just too much for me, today I got three 4k with bubba in a row, but I literally bust my ass off. It didn't worth it.
I play SWF too, I think its time to left the killer role, unless they give us a rational buff.
If you feel that way, I certainly encourage you to play something else for your own enjoyment, be it survivor or another game. The fact is, though, that Killer is only at a significant disadvantage at the very highest ranks- everywhere else, there's always something you can do. The game's not easy, you have to work for your kills when you're against opponents of the same skill as you.
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@divineavenger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573826#Comment_2573826
It's completely fine to get a practically undetactable state as a survivor, since shadow step will suppress auora reading and scratches! Yes very tuned and fine
No aura and no scratches is not "practically undetectable". It'll save them from being tracked at range, from something like BBQ, but if you as a killer find that no longer having scratch marks means you're guaranteed to lose a chase, you need to get better at using the other indicators to track where a survivor is, and/or bring other tracking perks like Spies and Whispers.
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I like the idea, I especially like it ticking up over time if they don't Mend. People often compare Trickster to Huntress, but that's dumb, he is and always has been far closer to Plague- this just realises that a little further.
Holding on to Main Event is a poor move though, in my opinion. I'd rather see the bar partially refunded if you don't use it- instead of charging it again from 0, you charge it from 50, or maybe even 75. Main Event is clearly supposed to work as a crescendo, but starting from zero is pretty harsh even with that in mind.
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@DontNerf said:
I'll just run thrill that will work fine hopefully
It likely won't do that much on its own, but if you patrol it and other totem spawns you know of, you'll have more time to interrupt them.
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Lethal Pursuer is still just as strong as it was before, so I'm still going to be using that. Whispers has always been excellent tracking so that'll probably replace BBQ.
As for countering boons themselves, Thrill works pretty well if you're proactive about patrolling totem spots, and any instadown/chase tool helps to counteract their benefits. Sloppy Butcher is decent ish, moreso for tracking in Shadow Step's radius than for its meagre slowdown, but it's got something.
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@Nayru said:
psycho slowdown is only when they bless a hex specifically and eventually they'll get thrill with it
i tend to run detective's hunch for optimal blue creation and you can bet i'd be after that totem in particular if i had a red bar
and i'd break it if i had a good blue location so i wouldn't get the psycho slowdown in the first place probably
unfortunately this might be stockholm syndrome setting in, rage like how i rage as if i was spirit herself, it's justified
True, but there's always a risk that someone's going to run Detective's and instantly annihilate any hexes you bring, so that's not really changed? Besides, if the killer protects Thrill manually, blessing that takes a longass time, there's time for them to interrupt you.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575160#Comment_2575160
This is what I was trying to say as well, boon totems also remind me a lot of old undying, but got nerfed.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575163#Comment_2575163
The thing that bothers me the most is that, yesterday and today, it was usually 4 man after 4 man using boons (Idc about swf usually) but coordination + map offerings is why these perks should be changed in a more healthy manner.
It is a nightmare to play against these perks in indoor maps, on normal maps it can be annoying but just like you said not OP just strong.
Eh, that's going to dramatically go down after the novelty wears off, but yes, a four-man running all of them with decent coordination is going to be tough. The thing is, though.... a four-man with strong perks and decent coordination are already incredibly tough to go against, that has nothing to do with boon totems.
The mechanic could do with some tweaking, but anyone pretending that they're a massive problem or that they're breaking the game and need to be nerfed right now immediately is just... being silly. That's the only word for it.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575163#Comment_2575163
They actually nerfed NOED, because NOED can't spawn over boon totem.
It's funny that survivor perk has priority over killer perk...
That's the one change that I personally call for, actually. Plaything and NOED should snuff a boon to make room if they need to.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575146#Comment_2575146
How is obscuring information if you are telling them that they are not strong basically? The fact that 14 seconds for 1 survivor is not the same as 14 seconds for the killer says a lot.
30 seconds for free green medkits? How is that not strong? The fact that boons are strong and gives killers a 3rd thing to do is just insane, boons make any m1 killer have more issues, especially if you have a duo or a dedicated build as survivor.
Boons as they are right now are probably the same as unhealthy as noed.
I never said they weren't strong, and nor would I. They are strong- I'd go so far as to say very strong in some circumstances- but what they're not is broken.
You can play around boon totems. They're not overwhelming and you're not powerless against them. I then went on to outline how and why they can be played around.
Regarding your last line, I agree. They're the exact same level of healthy and reasonable as NOED is.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575128#Comment_2575128
Slight benefit to the killer, like making it really hard to track and give them green medkits, great benefits for the killer, very nice.
And don't even say "bUt KiLlErS cAn bREaK thEm", I will continue to say, 1 second for the killer is 4 for the survivors, if killers have to go out of their way to break them then the perk is obviously strong.
Slight benefit to the killer like pulling them away from the objective and slowing them down.
If you're just responding to me to complain about totems in general, I'm afraid I'm not going to respond since it's clogging the thread and obscuring helpful information.
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@OldHunterLight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2575109#Comment_2575109
Let me run sloppy on billy or sloppy on blight, sure.
Slight benefits to the killer, sure, my grandma never had sex with my grandpa as well.
Obviously not every killer can make equal use of Sloppy, I didn't think I had to clarify that I'm not suggesting it be used on killers that don't use it.
Yes, a slight benefit. It's dragging survivors away from the objective, that is a slight benefit. Do you have anything useful to say here?
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First of all, everyone should stop whining and dramatising about this, they're not absurdly broken and it's absolutely possible to play around them. I've had a few games with them so far, and here's what I've gathered over that (admittedly very small) sample size of experience:
- Thrill Of The Hunt still absolutely works. It's not a tracking tool anymore, but it doesn't lose tokens when a totem is blessed, so unless they bless over it directly (which wastes even more of their time) it slows down their blessing actions by a lot, giving you time to interrupt or just otherwise ensuring they're off generators for longer.
- Oftentimes a survivor will run you towards their totem in a chase, and you can snuff it after you down them. Neither boon perks are at their strongest when a survivor is actively in a chase - no scratch marks is strong, but not overwhelmingly so - and so that's usually your best bet. Like reloading for Huntress/Slinger/Trickster/Clown, or breaking pallets for most killers, snuff the boon during your downtime after downing someone or after hooking them.
- Haunted Grounds still works, as previously mentioned, and instadowns in general are strong against CoH since it doesn't much matter if you're full health when you're Exposed. Similarly, addons that inflict Broken are going to be quite popular for a while, I'd wager.
- Doesn't hurt to slap Sloppy Butcher on your build, to give more blood for tracking and to slow down their healing by a marginal amount.
- BBQ is basically useless against a full boon squad (save for that extra BP, which is admittedly always nice), so I'd swap out for other tracking that doesn't rely on auras. Also, endgame builds are gonna be more useful now to give you a bit more of an edge if generators fly while boons buy them some time. I've had some use from No Way Out specifically!
This is absolutely a mechanic that can be played around with smart decisions and an adjustment of playstyle, and conveys slight benefits to the killer alongside the significant benefits to the survivor. This isn't hopeless!
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2574833#Comment_2574833
relitigated?
not really. Some just don't agree with it, some do, because it makes sense to destroy it. It's not like killer can use it after it anyway, so there is no point to him keeping that totem there.
Why you should be able to do it again on same totem?
Inner strength and other totem perks like that can do it once, why should this be different?
Relitigated means "discussed", in this context. It has a formal connotation, like it's being discussed by lawyers in meticulous detail.
It doesn't make any sense to destroy it, though, that's the point. Boon totems are designed to provide a very specific mechanical change for both sides- they are not "survivor hex perks" and they're also not Inner Strength. Though, for the record, Inner Strength should probably be reworked because it is kind of useless now, I won't argue with that.
The point is for survivors to continually be dragged out of position to use a totem in the area of their choosing, that you as the killer can make into a deadzone and start initiating chases with survivors who aren't working on the objective. If the totem is destroyed when you snuff it, they'll constantly be on the move so they won't be returning to the same spot over and over.
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I'd rework it, honestly, it's the kind of addon that will probably only ever be useless or wildly oppressive. Not sure what effect I'd give it, though...
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Killers obviously shouldn't be able to break the totem, this has been relitigated multiple times over. A better solution to the boon totem spam would be something like a short to moderate (say thirty seconds, maybe?) cooldown on the perk itself, so you can't immediately rebless a totem once it's been snuffed.
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@LapisInfernalis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573329#Comment_2573329
No BBQ or any aura reading. And you still have to find it. Not all maps are simple.
Yeah, this perk does shield you from BBQ, but it's not the only one that does that. Regardless- I meant in chase, it's still absolutely very possible to track someone in chase.
You don't usually use BBQ or aura reading in a chase outside of special circumstances, after all.
Also, if you're looking for a way to track people outside of chase, plenty of perks still work. Whispers, Discordance, Spies from the Shadows, Surveillance...
This perk is an annoyance but it's by no means unbeatable.
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@SleepyWillo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573324#Comment_2573324
Going from:
"When we work with our licensing partners, we provide them with in-game models as well as Chapter keys. They are free to use these however they see fit as the rightful owners of these characters"
to
"Behaviour worked with Boss Protocol over several months to adapt in-game models for use as NFTs and approved them prior to the release"
Seems like a lie to me. They didnt just provide them with in-game models. They worked with them for several months to adapt the models for NFTs. Thats not a misdirect. Thats 100% a lie.
I don't think it's that far of a leap to extrapolate that the adaption was just part of the "providing" stipulation in their contracts?
You don't exactly provide someone with something if that something doesn't function, after all. Don't get me wrong, these tweets are evasive, but they're not lies.
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You still have audio cues and the radius is pretty small, so it's absolutely possible to track someone inside the Shadow Step totem radius. It's harder, sure, but you should feel the effect of a perk, otherwise it's kinda useless.
I played against it earlier, it's not that hard. It'll be worst on maps like Gideon's, where there's a lot of twists and turns and they can easily hide behind structures.
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@fogdonkey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573313#Comment_2573313
If you don't buy the NFTs they won't money from you.
If you DO buy the NFTs, they won't get money from you. That's just not really the point being made.
(Though, to their credit, they never did lie about it, rather they were a little evasive in their first few tweets.)
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The killer buffs are more about the basekit mechanics (Trapper and Plague) and the addon passes than perks, but Blood Favor is halfway usable now that it's been buffed so at least there's something there.
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@Beaburd said:
I like this public statement from them, indirect apology accepted from me.
I might be seen as flippant, but it's not in anyone's good interest for them to belittle their partners or outright revoke their actions. Could you imagine how much harder it would make license agreements for them in the future? Not to mention other complications.
Whether they knew about the NFTs and were testing the water known as their ethical limits, or they supported it in ignorance and had no idea what their assets would be used for, the damage is done. This post is showing they have no interest in NFTs either way, likely in part from the backlash.
For me, complaining about things like NFTs and killer balance is to evoke a change instead of causing a riot.
If Behaviour will not pursue NFT activities in the future, nor support it further, I can't help but feel like they've learned a lesson and the complaints have done their job. But hey, if they ever do it again, I would consider it a breach of trust at that point and then be a bit more offended and distrustful.
Yeah, I'm feeling pretty similarly. I respect the need to be cautious and not committing super hard to burning bridges, they do have to continue functioning in the business sphere with a decent reputation as a company to work with, so this is probably the best we're going to get.
This is worth the benefit of the doubt.
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I've played a few matches of his new buffs and he feels so much better than before, since you have actual addon freedom and his new addons are great.
I love the silent trap placement one, myself.
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@Firellius said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2573200#Comment_2573200
If it was a decision made afterwards then there's two scenarios:
A) BHVR was under no obligation to endorse Boss Protocol
or
B) Their contract had a 'you must support whatever we do' stipulation
Case A makes them culpable, case B makes them morons. There's no scenario where BHVR comes out okay.
I mean, yeah. This isn't a defence of BHVR, it's just important to criticise them for what actually happened, y'know?
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This is a good start, at least. I'd personally like them to take more of a hardline stance instead of just the implication ("nor will it ever") that they're against NFTs, but I do also understand they may have to tread very carefully for legal reasons.
Still. I think all of this will definitely dissuade BHVR from ever doing NFTs themselves, so that's something.