jesterkind
jesterkind
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Plague and Twins would be my suggestion.
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While I do like that idea, let me pitch you a slight difference:
Monstrous Shrine rework that lets the basement hooks be considered Scourge Hooks, as well as giving the current Monstrous Shrine effects on Scourge Hooks.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677410#Comment_2677410
Self healing should definitely be removed.
I'd say hard capped by any means, rather than specifically just removing it from CoH.
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@GannTM said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677405#Comment_2677405
I mean but can we say the same about COH? Hag is a killer that suffers from that because she doesn’t commit to chases and it removes her snowball potential.
Yes, we could. That's why CoH is massively overpowered and needs to be nerfed lol
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Because the values are too high for that to be up semi-permanently if survivors keep cleansing and you keep rekindling. It'd be a massively oppressive presence in the trial if it could be rekindled infinitely.
Also, the equivalence between Pentimento (or hexes in general) and boons is a tenuous one; they're not the same mechanic, so they have different balancing.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677254#Comment_2677254
It would just switch.
Right now that perk is not viable, because of boons.
Not quite true- it is viable, just in niche builds and with a bit of luck.
I feel as though at least some people think the perk is genuinely, literally useless, so they're looking to buff it massively, when it's actually quite strong when it gets to work- and you can get it to work with a little dedication. It'll need either QoL, or just to have blessing be less attractive over cleansing through some basekit mechanics changes.
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@Chordyceps said:
Ngl, never expected to see homestuck content on the forums. It is pretty fun to take characters you know from other shows and see how they would adapt into this game, even if they stand no chance at all of actually getting in, for one reason or another.
I like the concepts of the perks for sure, they're very in character for vriska. I'd do a little tweaking to some of them though. With spider8ite, that period of time essentially makes it a counter to just BBQ. I feel it'd be a really cool perk if the killer couldn't read auras for the entire time they were on the hook. What the adjustable variable for different tiers would be then, I'm not sure though. Vision Eightfold I think is good the way it is. Unfair Advantage, while very in character is definitely too strong. Being able to unhook yourself is a very strong effect, just look at Deliverance. And of course, deliverance has a condition you need to meet before you can use it, and Unfair Advantage should have some sort of activation condition too.
Honestly, perk tiers make coming up with new perks difficult because there has to be some scaling adjustable number, and while I do like the idea of making Spider8ite last the length of the hook, you're right- how would we scale that for perk tiers lol
As for Unfair Advantage, I don't dislike the idea of giving it an activation requirement, I just wasn't quite sure what to make it. I wouldn't want to make it a safe unhook because then it'd just be Deliverance 2... maybe 80% total generator progress so you can't just cheese unhook yourself without contributing to the match? It should probably be self-based rather than altruism-based due to the character it's associated with, certainly.
I'm glad you liked the ideas, though!
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677220#Comment_2677220
They put out paid dlc,cosmetic, and battle passes if anything its a love of money. They need to be held accountable for repeated bed decisions. If a drunk keeps getting in his car to home to his kids does that make it ok for them to make bad decisions even with good intentions?
I don't quite get that argument. They do put out paid DLCs, but those DLCs clearly have a lot of work put into them, they're not lazy cash grabs.
Also, their bad decisions are about video game balancing, don't cheapen the very real damage drunk driving does with that comparison.
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Boons as a core mechanic aren't where we should be looking to balance them- though they do have some problem areas, mainly the ability to go through floors and the fact that totem spawns weren't updated to account for both sides needing to find them, even those problems would be minor annoyances if it weren't for the actual problem, which is that Circle of Healing is OP. Let's take a look at the others:
Shadow Step is annoying, certainly, but there's nuance to it; you can still track through blood and sound, you can still use non-aura tracking perks, it's certainly something that makes chases harder but it's by no means unwinnable even for that specific chase. The balance of this perk is pretty much fine.
Exponential is garbage. The only time this perk is going to actually let someone get picked up is if the boon itself is on another floor than where they get downed, and if the killer makes the unwise decision to slug to either go find someone else or go find the totem. Otherwise, it's such a situational, niche effect that even if boons couldn't be snuffed at all it'd only be mediocre.
Contrast that to CoH, which with only half a regular healing build can completely obliterate the killer's ability to spread pressure, and lets survivors heal themselves quicker than other people healing them normally. It's way overtuned, and needs pretty dramatic changes to bring it in line- either nerf the absolute hell out of it specifically, or my preferred solution, implement a hard cap on self healing so it can't get too crazy without someone else's help.
Also, to everyone trying to use a false equivalence between hexes being permanently removable and boons being infinitely relightable: Hexes are permanently removable because the player who brought them isn't.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677254#Comment_2677254
Rekindled totems can't be booned
They can be blessed which takes 28 seconds but the totem then dissapears. The same as it would with the 14 second cleanse time
To the op thrill counters boons already. Boons on a whole are fine. It's just CoH that's overtuned
Oh! Well, that's definitely good.
I do feel like a lot of people are assuming that a "counter" must immediately put a hard stop to something, rather than just provide a tool against it, lol.
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I'm not sure whether I like being able to bring a perk that hardcore shuts down survivors quite like that. I'm sure there are other examples of that general concept, but this feels far more extreme.
I do think that rekindled hexes shouldn't be viable for blessing, that part seems fair. As for rekindling blessed totems... I don't know that it makes much thematic or balancing sense, to be honest.
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I did. Making poor decisions isn't indicative of not caring about their game, and it's still getting plenty of attention and care from the devs, so they're at least legitimate nominees for the award.
Dead By Daylight is a labour of love, and there's a strong argument for that being a contributing factor to its ongoing issues.
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@Kolozzoni said:
Who cares if he is or not?
I don't get why so many people are so interested in a character's ethnicity/race nowadays. Just play the damn game.
If you care about the characters at all, caring about things like where they're from is perfectly legitimate even outside of liking more representation of your own ethnicity.
If you don't care about the characters at all and you're just here for the gameplay... then just play the damn game, why are you so invested in how other people approach the work?
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@lethargicsauce said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2676106#Comment_2676106
There was one for Jack yesterday (full disclosure, it's mine. but it did really surprise me that there were 2 Homestuck concepts within days of each other, let alone 2 total at all)
Always nice to see someone with good taste on the forums!
It's not a very likely license to be negotiated, but... we can dream.
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@lethargicsauce said:
Damn, 2 Homestuck concepts within a day of eachother, what are the odds? Also, really pog stuff! Vriska is a pretty good choice.
Oh damn, was there another one that I missed?
Thanks, though! Glad you liked it :3
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Boon mechanics are basically fine, all that's needed is to make them not go through multiple floors and to maybe look at making snuffing very slightly more impactful. Also reworking totem spawns, depends on if you count that as a boon mechanic.
Infinite reblessing is fine, Circle of Healing is the problem. Even as they are right now, if you take CoH out of the equation, having infinitely available Shadow Step and Exponential with some time investment is perfectly reasonable because one of those is strong but balanced and the other one is honestly kind of garbage- Shadow Step and Exponential respectively, there.
The infinite reblessing isn't a balance problem, it's the core design. Everything else should be balanced around that.
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The effect is far too strong for something like that. I'll not deny that boons make this perk significantly less consistent, but it's still possible to use and it has pretty severe penalties for the survivors if you get it working.
The last line you gave is another reason not to do it; that'd make boons finite. Granted, that's less of a terrible idea when it's a perk that does it, but it's still not great to hard shut off boons as a concept.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675762#Comment_2675762
The main issue is just how safe the central tower is. 1 guarenteed god pallet, tons of safe loops.
Yeah, I'd agree with that. The outside areas don't seem to have many super safe loops at all, at least based on the few games I've played there.
It's still not the worst map, though, not by a long shot. One god pallet and safe loops is frustrating, certainly, but not universally awful for every single killer, y'feel me?
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Plenty of people have pointed out how big the map is. Even more have pointed out that it's only really average size compared to the other maps.
Truthfully, I don't think the map is that bad. It'll be rough for some killers, but the actual design of it is more engaging than something like Red Forest. Its walls seem fine, depending on what you want from those areas- some killers want survivors to take the vault so they're animation locked, others would rather get around the vault... they're not amazing but they're not horrendous either.
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Very occasionally I will use it to get across the map or close a loop, but generally I find it a lot of extra work for not all that compelling rewards.
It's useful, no doubt, but... it only really lets Clown do the thing he was already pretty good at slightly better, so I don't really bother.
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I've been trying Plaything/Thrill/Pentimento/Pain Resonance, but I'm still very much figuring it out myself. I know those first three synergise pretty well, but I'm not sure if it's best for her specifically.
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Now that Jolt is a common perk, I think its functionality should be broadened to include M2 attacks. Heck, I'd be alright with just any down, if someone's silly enough to let their Deep Wound timer run out or something.
It's very nearly a really good perk, I'd love to see that small buff to let it be a staple in my killer builds.
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To be fair, most things are unbalanced on RPD.
That being said, yeah, it's one of the nastier maps for boons in general. Midwich is another nasty one, and kinda The Game as well- the multiple floors aspect makes boons much harder to deal with.
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Clown.
It's not even a strength thing, he's my pick for the number one weakest killer in the game, but he's the one I've been turning to recently when I just wanna play a nice uncomplicated game of DBD, and the one I lament not playing on occasion when I'm having a bad match. Perhaps there's a degree of being more okay with losses when I'm playing weak killers... but I think it's more that his laugh makes me happy.
HEEUUGGHHH HA HAA...
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@Shaped said:
I wish majority of people would stop and think about consequences of their proposals before making them.
Imagine the amount of trolling this would lead to when people would deny the unhooks and waste time for everyone else in the game.
It is auto loss when even one person does this in a solo team because others wouldn't know and would run from a nearly completed gen to unhook a troll.
It's not as though successfully unhooking someone like that is going to give you much of an advantage, though. If they want to troll, they're going to troll, and if they want out of the match then they're just not gonna play.
The only actual negative scenarios this would create for the survivor side is that people who farm unhooks are gonna get punished for it, but... shouldn't they? It's a bad play, it shouldn't go well for them.
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I would like to see some more story from DBD, definitely some more characterisation, but I don't know that a campaign mode in the game as it is now would be the best fit. I'd sooner see some canon comics or maybe a completely separate side game to explore that.
Regarding being burnt out on PvP, what I'd want to see there is custom bot games where you can set specific parameters to mess around. That'd be useful for practicing new killers or testing synergies, too.
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Over time they're sure to see several changes- just a question of how soon.
Personally, I anticipate some kind of change relatively soon, but whether it'll be a good one is up in the air. I'd even be content with just nerfing CoH, since that's the main problem area.
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The MMR system is not a progression system- you're not "supposed" to be trying to max it out. If you could see your own number and how much it goes up/down by, quite a few people would - justifiably - start trying to make the number go up, since that's how most games which show you the number want you to act.
Additionally, you'd see people in the wider community start discarding certain opinions out of hand if they don't meet a certain MMR status, because people assume that the ability to play the game is the same as the ability to analyse or comment on the game accurately. I've personally seen it before in other games that have a ranked mode- main reason I don't want a ranked mode for this game.
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I don't know the exact values, but I can tell you that you're right about Killer Instinct being triggered on a near miss- she has addons to extend that range too, if you want to use the crows as an information-gathering tool.
As for the range where it injures, you can actually see that range while the crow is idle, it'll show you the point at which it stops being damaging. I'd imagine the loop was just big enough that the survivor was juuuuust on the edge of it being damaging, and got swarmed instead, since the range is pretty small.
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@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670535#Comment_2670535
It’s hard to know if they are or aren’t, on account of BHVR’s mud-like transparency
Since there's no reason to assume that they aren't, it's still kind of a non-issue.
Given how this community reacts to transparency, I also can't really blame them for being a little more guarded. Guess we just can't have nice things on that point.
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Very similar to how it looks now, but games are a little slower and there's more pressure to just leave in the endgame so people can't waste time by teabagging at the exit gate.
Obviously some balance changes to make all killers able to perform and better map balancing, too, but that's a given.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673725#Comment_2673725
Wait so we now expanded Hexes to "directly contribute to keeping survivors from their objective or make downing them easier"
I thought the original definition was, Hexes contribute directly to the objective. Boons are utility and not direct.
But anyway I feel now we're arguing over words any way used by BHVR. If they genuinely said "boons do not contribute to the objective", I would suspect they were just saying this out of fear people would say they're OP, or that they'd impact gen speeds. But I don't even know who said this quote so I can't make that assumption.
Probably just gonna back out of this one anyway as I drove this thread way off topic
Perhaps that's just my explanations- I don't see a difference between those two things because delaying generators and downing survivors is the killer's objective.
That's fair, though! I believe the quote I'm remembering was from the most recent QnA stream, if you wanted to go rewatch that to confirm. I'm going off memories, I may have mixed some stuff up.
Have a good one, dude.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673695#Comment_2673695
"They don't complete the gens faster because a boon totem is up"
No, but they might complete the gens in a situation where they wouldn't have, if the boon wasn't up. So, indirectly or not, it's helped them complete their objective.
Well you've just saved me googling all the Hexes by posting the ones which don't fit in with this pattern.
I could use the same logic really. Crowd Control blocks windows, but Killers don't need to block windows to complete their objective (just loop for longer).
Much like, CoH makes healing faster and enables self healing, but Survivors don't need to be able to heal to complete their objective, just don't get injured.
Right, but that's kind of what a utility buff is, wouldn't you agree? Something that doesn't directly contribute to the objective, but makes it more likely by keeping you around to complete the objective through other means, or by keeping attention off you. That's exactly what it does, and that's why the killer doesn't need to destroy them right away, because the danger they pose to your win state isn't direct and can be circumvented through other means- contrasted to at least the stronger hexes, that directly contribute to keeping survivors from their objective or make downing them easier.
...Again, with exceptions. Hexes are a little more varied than sticking to a very rigid formula, and boons may branch out too later on down the line, but right now they fit their mould much more uniformly.
Also, y'know, CoH is busted and you really should prioritise snuffing that one because it's OP, but we're talking broad strokes rather than just that perk.
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I very rarely support outright removing anything at all, so I'd sooner see them reworked. I'm not sure what to, but Brand New Parts should still exist with some other effect.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673668#Comment_2673668
Fair, yes now you mention it, Exponential is more situational than the other perks, given you have to be downed within range, and it can be totally prevented by not slugging anyway.
"Utility buffs in a small area that don't affect the core objective"
So I assume you are quoting here so these may not be your words, but I'd disagree with that description, Survivors healing at a faster rate does affect the objective, it is all time savings that can be converted into gens. The other two boons can help you not die and therefore contribute to the objective.
You could argue many of the Killer hexes don't affect the objective, cause they don't directly result in kills!
Well, consider it this way- healing is not the survivor's objective, nor is looping. They can complete their objective and win without doing either of those two things- when the devs say that it's not going to affect the core objective, they mean (again, I assume) generators and exit gates, because those are the survivor's objective. Contrast that to hexes, which either affect generators (Ruin, Lullaby) or lethality/chases (Devour, Crowd Control, NOED, Haunted Grounds), and those things are the killer's objective.
At least... in general. Hexes have been in the game for longer and they seem to have had a looser conception of them from the start, so there are weirder ones like Third Seal that don't actually affect the objective, as well as utility/support hexes like Undying and Thrill. It's a little less restrictive on the hex side, but so far, they have been sticking to their description for boons.
That's not to say they're not strong effects, but outside of how busted strong CoH is, survivors don't complete their objective faster just because a boon totem is up- even when you're both in the radius, that survivor isn't advancing the game, they're just buying time for their teammates to do it or extending their own uptime. So far, I do think the "utility buffs" concept is bearing out, and they are - CoH aside - weaker than the average hex.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673649#Comment_2673649
"Boons are supposed to be weaker"
Has this been stated as such by devs?
You raise a valid point that specifically it could just be CoH thats OP, but there's only three, and CoH hasn't exactly set a great precedent, and I'm assuming the Unbreakable Boon is going to end up being more powerful than many of the Hexes.
No, I am just assuming that based on the way boons have been discussed and the fact that one of them is absurdly, wildly more powerful than either of the other two. Utility buffs in a small area that don't affect the core objective, as they have been described, implies to me that they're not supposed to be as game-changing as hexes are while they're up.
Exponential is not going to be stronger than most hexes, nah. It's so situational and easily played around that it's basically only gonna see use when the lit totem is on a different floor to the slugged survivor, as far as I can see.
It's definitely just CoH that's OP. Shadow Step is far more balanced (albeit really annoying on some maps) and Exponential is lowkey kind of garbage, I'll take those two over CoH any day.
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@Mamoru3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673639#Comment_2673639
Perks should be searchable in the perk section (loadout), the user should be able to find the right perk he is searching for instead of having to go through to sometimes 7-8 pages full of perks.
Ohhh, a search bar. Got it, yes, that does make sense.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673630#Comment_2673630
This logic doesn't hold up.
If I have Hex: Haunted Ground, or Hex: Retribution, you absolutely do not need to cleanse my totems.
Then you have Hexes which are weaker than others. Obviously there is more of a need to remove Devour Hope at 4 stacks, then to remove Third Seal at 1 stack.
Your argument is basically that Boons are designed to be weaker and therefore its acceptable for them to be snuffable and harder to discover. This is absolutely not the case, CoH is now one of the most powerful perks in the game, and is way more powerful than many hexes.
So, obviously Haunted Grounds and Retribution are designed with the base assumption that if a survivor sees a hex, they should want to cleanse it. Those perks strengthen my argument, not weaken it, those perks would be literally useless if survivors didn't have a heavy incentive to cleanse (or bless over) a hex.
Some hexes being weak also doesn't undermine their core design, which is supposed to be perks that impose hefty negative effects onto survivors that encourage them to hunt for its associated totem. I'm fully aware that Lullaby, Third Seal, and a few others are not good perks, but they're not good perks because they don't fit this intended function.
Boons are supposed to be weaker. Circle of Healing being absurdly overpowered is a problem with that perk. The killer is supposed to have snuffing as an option, but still be able to play around the boon if they decide that their time is better spent finishing a chase or interrupting a specific action- look at Shadow Step and Exponential, you still ultimately don't want them to be up but they're also not so potent that you can't get away with prioritising something else before snuffing them.
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Probably a minor point, but it's really confused me- could you elaborate on what you mean by a "sorting algorithm" for perks? Under what circumstance, where would an algorithm be needed...?
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I don't think the killer needs to know what boon totem specifically is up, because that's - so far - something they can figure out by watching its effects, and because hexes are designed for survivors to need to cleanse them whereas boons are designed for snuffing them to be an option you have if you think it's more beneficial than just ignoring it for now.
What I do think is more reasonable is having the audio cue be made louder towards the edges of the radius- it's loud as all hell when you're right up on the thing, but really quite at the edge of its effective range.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673559#Comment_2673559
Well find a nice small map.
Get multiple boons.
See how much fun it is.
I had 3 CoH on Ormund. Suffice to say i Facecamped that 1 survivor i managed to down.
CoH is not the only boon, and is the least fun one to play around. The current implementation of boons as a mechanic also needs a little work.
Neither of those prevent positive comments from being made. I and others have had positive things to say about boons, and more constructive feedback than just "they'll never work delete them".
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670761#Comment_2670761
Plenty of survivors have said positive things.
And killers!
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673491#Comment_2673491
No they gave a hard number but for the life of me I can't find where it was said because I dont tend to save things like that normally. And brain is not working because all the mandatory OT I have been working lately.
That's what I'm saying- I'm pretty sure they gave a number of ideas they had, in relation to talking about how they don't have anything they're definitely going to make yet.
Either way, the rest of the points stand.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672831#Comment_2672831
When they first were introduced and talked about they said the number of boons that were planned to come out I just can't think for the life of me the number that was said.
That was one of the issues people had when they were introducing Makela and the new Boon System.
They said they had a certain number of possible ideas that may or may not ever get made, is that what you're thinking of?
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673305#Comment_2673305
A brief cooldown after a boon gets snuffed does nothing to prevent them from being an infinite, gamebreaking resource survivors have access to. So your boon gets snuffed while you're on a gen. Oh well. The cooldown is over by the time your gen is done. Rebless. It does absolutely nothing. Dead hard is on a cooldown and it doesn't prevent it from being one of the most powerful and ubiquitous perks survivors have access to. Why on earth would a boon cooldown do any different?
So, let's crack into that.
The first thing that we have to acknowledge here is that boon totems aren't a "gamebreaking resource". Circle of Healing is, but Shadow Step is far more balanced and Exponential is honestly mildly garbage, if those two were the only boons in the game we'd have some problems (namely going through floors, which is a huge pain for Shadow Step), but they'd be nowhere near as much of a problem. We can't fix Circle of Healing by changing the core mechanic of boon totems because it's just too powerful an effect, that perk needs to be nerfed no matter what.
With that in mind, it being on a cooldown will make snuffing a totem a little more impactful. Removing Circle of Healing from the equation, having boons on two separate timers (the cooldown timer, and the uninterrupted time necessary to bless- with time investment to get back to the totem, too) would prevent those truly annoying edge cases where you snuff a totem and someone just hops right back on it as soon as you walk away, and it'll help limit how much of the match has a boon totem up. It's not necessarily a perfect solution, but there are no perfect solutions, at least not ones that've been discussed on this forum yet- everything's going to have a downside.
Additionally, I am not saying and would not say that the only thing boons need is a timer. I'm not even saying that is necessarily the best option, just that it looks that way right now- but either way, they'll need extra work like changing their verticality.
That being said, I am curious how you'd tweak boon totems to be balanced without nuking them.
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@Brimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673030#Comment_2673030
well unless they have a super generous source at least it still costed a small amount of money per account. With this they dont need to spend a dime.
True, but it's also temporary. Unless they hoard hundreds of accounts, which seems somewhat unlikely, they'll only have a limited number of backups.
There's gonna be a spike in cheaters, don't get me wrong, it's just not making the problem permanently worse, it'll taper off after a little while.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2673125#Comment_2673125
That does *absolutely nothing*
Would you mind elaborating? I'm not sure what you mean.
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@glitchboi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672728#Comment_2672728
Probably straight up/down since you'll move your camera to position it.
I'd be on board for a straight up/down ability, give her some options for being directly above/below survivors. Not a bad idea at all!
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It wouldn't be a terrible change, but you'd have to be very careful with the numbers to stop the bless time from getting too slow too quickly. I'd sooner see a brief cooldown on the perk after snuffing, personally, that seems more reasonable.