jesterkind
jesterkind
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It'll taper off. Getting copies of DBD for cheaters is apparently already super easy, so this'll just make them stick around a little longer until they run out of backups.
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@JPA said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672868#Comment_2672868
Got you, so they randomly select the realm, and then the map?
What a stupid way to do it.
I think so. Don't quote me on that, but it would explain why maps like Haddonfield and Midwich (and also Badham because its variants are separate maps without being that different) feel like they pop up more often- they actually don't, and your brain just sorts every Autohaven map into "oh i rolled autohaven", even though they're different maps.
That's my theory, anyway.
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@JPA said:
Haddonfield has a higher percentage of coming up, even in the normal map selection (i.e. without offerings)?
Is that confirmed?
I always thought it popped up a lot but just thought that was negativity bias making it seem like it did.
I think it's because Lampkin Lane is the only map within the Haddonfield realm. You're more likely to see Haddonfield over, say, Blood Lodge because if you roll Autohaven Wreckers you have five options for what specific map you get; if you roll Haddonfield, you have one option, it'll always be Lampkin Lane.
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@VikingDragonXii said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672719#Comment_2672719
No Boons need a nuking.....dont forget there are still around 11 or 12 more Boons set to come out.....and currently we have Superfast Heals with a free Self Mend, a full Scratch and Aura blocker, and now a forever Unbreakable. All of which can be stacked on top of each other on one single totem and can never get rid of it. I'm afraid of what else they will bring out......sadly I can see them making a DS Boon.....a faster wiggle free boon.....something to block the exhausted status......there is only so much you can use on them.....and so far they are using normal perks and adding other effects to it....
11 or 12? Where are you getting that number from...?
Anyway, as I said, Shadow Step is annoying but nowhere near brokenly strong, and Exponential is so situational that I'd honestly be surprised if I ever see it activate in a game. They aren't that strong and are far more balanced, though the mechanic itself could still do with a little work- there are too many totem spots that the killer has to invest too much time to snuff, for instance.
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Would that be straight up/down, or diagonally up/down?
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670783#Comment_2670783
Yes, but even you acknowledge it needs some changes. NOTHING has been changed and they are on record saying boons are not game changing enough to require a limitation.
They are the most game changing thing to enter the game as of yet. They have single handedly deleted entire playstyles and have pushed forward the tunnel and camp meta going on.
Why bother injuring a survivor when they will just heal up at no cost to gen time or use of their med kit?
Didn't they say that specifically in regards to making them one-use? I'm pretty sure they're still open to putting some limitations on boon totems, they just (correctly) don't want to make them into survivor hexes when their design is so much more interesting than that.
Though, while it was poor phrasing and they should've said it differently, it's worth mentioning that what you're talking about isn't the result of boon totems- it's the result of Circle of Healing specifically. The others are fine- Shadow Step is annoying but pretty easily played around, and Exponential is honestly kind of trash.
It's important to remember that CoH can be changed without nuking the core mechanic of boon totems.
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@douggie123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672629#Comment_2672629
Most other game devs listen to their communities popular ideas. Them games have been going for years. This game I give max 2 more years thd state its in right now.
There is no way that's true. Maybe smaller games, but bigger games definitely don't.
Regardless of if it works elsewhere, I repeat: I've seen what this community's ideas are, so it wouldn't work here.
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@douggie123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2672620#Comment_2672620
Terrible for not implementing popular change. Why shouldn't they think of popular demand might actually make the game survive longer
I've seen what some of the popular ideas among the community are. They aren't all good, and a lot of them would be dramatically bad.
BVHR's competence or lack thereof literally isn't relevant, it's the fact that a bunch of people who happen to enjoy the same game aren't game designers and their ideas aren't automatically good.
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@douggie123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670535#Comment_2670535
You clearly believe bhvr are the greatest game designers ever.
Where on earth are you getting that from the post you're responding to?
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I think that some kind of reward system would definitely do a decent amount to encourage survivors not to be quite so arrogant and gloaty, but honestly, I think the solution to this problem is gonna have to be - at least in part - fixing the balance issues so survivors can't four-man-escape quite so easily, and make them feel some more pressure to actually just leave in the endgame.
I really do feel you, though. Multiple times I've had the last survivor in the trial just stand in an exit gate until the timer's nearly down, solely so they can teabag me and run out. I don't give them the satisfaction, and they will quite literally stand there until the last second before finally running out, it's really annoying.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671007#Comment_2671007
He should have been changed very carefully in such a way as to not ruin the reason for picking him in the first place. Honestly that goes for literally every single Killer, Perk, and... well... Survivors are skins, but if they weren't it'd go for them too.
This thread and others like it is proof that that did not happen. So... step 1 in fixing it is reverting the changes. Step 2 is figure out a different way to address the problematic aspects without breaking player enjoyment. Honestly, I think the delay on Deathslinger lowering his gun could easily stay/be present in attempt #2.
Now, as for why people keep acting that you don't get that the Developers messed up... you keep saying that the nerf that gave him the 0.4s delay in firing was a good/necessary one. It wasn't. That is THE change largely responsible for Deathslinger not being fun anymore. Full stop. That's the terrible choice people are objecting to. You keep supporting it. So... people are going to keep explaining why that change was the Devs messing up. Because it was.
But I'm not saying that it was a good change, that's what's so uniquely frustrating about this endless debate. What I'm doing is pointing out that the reasons they said they changed him were legitimate, and people seem to think that because I'm arguing with them on that point, that means I must therefore be arguing with them on all points. It's exhausting.
I'm even saying that his ADS speed is the area they should be looking when they go to revisit these changes, so long as he can't ADS spam/quickscope again.
I appreciate the rundown on where this communication has failed, though, that's legitimately helpful.
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...Bro, three of you escaped. This is a textbook example of how NOED doesn't give you an easy win if you don't set it up properly during the match, this guy got a single kill out of it.
I'm assuming you're the guy who died, and you have my sympathies, but this killer was messing around and got basically nothing out of the situation.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
That's the problem though.
There are many perks in the game that are great, but only when you make a build around it, and at that point you might aswell just use a normal build as you will get more success with it.
Hard disagree- at least on that being the problem.
Perks that exist to make specific builds work are totally fine. The problem with balance (though I'd hesitate to lay this at the feet of killer perks, I think the game surrounding them causes this) is that you get more value out of a sweaty meta build, not that there are perks which are designed to work for specific builds and playstyles.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671364#Comment_2671364
He's worse than Legion in that he can't injure a whole team in one go.
His chains are pitifully easy to dodge and have such a long recovery time that you've pretty much gotten away if you're paying any attention to the game at all. It's also far less distance than Huntress and though it can go through walls, it can't round corners, so again: worse legion. The only time it's good is if the survivors are mindlessly M1 on a generator and you're either undetectable or they're just ignoring the huge, throbbing heartbeat warning them to move slightly.
As for "encourages him to use his Chain Hunts more," you may have forgotten that all the addons that MADE his Chainhunt usable got supremely nerfed in the same pass as Engineer's Fang.
It takes 45 seconds for the box to respawn and 90 seconds for a Chain Hunt to begin. That's 135 seconds. Additionally, the chain hunt immediately stops the moment a survivor picks up the box. and cannot begin again until the box is solved or dropped. At absolute best, that's over 2 minutes to get any chain hunt value, which is 1.7 finished generators (per survivor).
Please, by all means, tell me how you are supposed to "Use Chain Hunts More." Is there some hidden mechanic that the killer can do to make the box appear on his screen like it does for Survivors? Some way to make it respawn faster? Or a way to stop one survivor from just picking it up and staying hidden for the bulk of the game, leaving you as - one last time - a worse Legion
The box has a predictable spawn pattern that isn't random. As far as I can see, The Thing that will separate merely competent Pinhead players from actually great ones is how well they can track down the box to get themselves a chain hunt, and then use that pressure to get some downs.
Of course, nothing about Pinhead changes the fact that if an iridescent is that strong, it deserves a downside to balance it, ideally one that informs the way you play while you have that addon equipped. If you think Pinhead really needed to use old Engineer's Fang to stand a shadow of a chance in a match, that is the problem, and that is what should be changed- bad addon design doesn't get a pass because the killer its associated with is weak, Clown still needs his fixed.
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@Fantasy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671369#Comment_2671369
The design team should have the ability to make a map in the dark where you can still see well enough to play.
I'll grant you that- Haddonfield, its flaws aside, is actually a decent example of a map that's set at night without being a nightmare to try and see anything on.
In all seriousness, the lighter maps don't kill the aesthetic of the game. Horror movies happen in bright environments all the time, it's fine that they're branching out into more than gloomy, dreary atmospheres.
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I'll take a very slightly compromised vibe if the alternative is not being able to see anything going on.
Old Coldwind and old Gideon's were awful for this, now you can actually see on those maps.
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@Adjatha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670622#Comment_2670622
You perhaps skimmed over the math there, so let me tl;dr it for you:
The nerf to Engineer's Fang means that the power itself is fundamentally changed. Like Freddy going from dream snares to dream pallets.
Engineer's Fang changes Pinhead's ability from "hit them and slow them down," to "you can damage healthy survivors."
Two chains do not off-set the built-in delay of using the power, even if you hit somebody with it. There is zero reason to use it if the target is injured. The sole purpose of his base power is to injury healthy survivors, at a close-to-medium range. In essence, it turns Pinhead from a worse Clown to a worse Legion.
Worse Legion? The ability to injure at range, through walls, without the punishing cooldowns and penalty for using M1 attacks afterwards? No, I'm not buying that.
What it does is shift him to a Huntress that can't down but doesn't have to care about LoS, if we're going to draw weird and slightly awkward comparisons to extant killers.
You're right: you don't use your M2 on injured survivors with the Engineer's Fang on, because the addon changes his power to have strength elsewhere. Something as strong as a ranged injure through walls warrants some kind of downside, and this is as good a change as any; this makes him more of a one-shot looper and encourages him to use his Chain Hunts more.
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"Up to" means not exceeding. That's why it says "up to", because it's not going to give you any more than four.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670922#Comment_2670922
I will explain as it seems you cannot put some links between events.
SBMM released -> many complaints -> huge playerbase drop after 2 weeks
Boon totems -> many complaints -> playerbase decreased even more
Before that i always faced good killers, not all the time but most of the time. Now i only face killers that do 1k most of the time.
SBMM release date : 8th September. Peak players was 71k. One month later, peak players was 55k.
Boon totems release date : 19th October. Peak players was 70k again as the update brought many curious players. 1 month later, peak = 50k. And last week it's the first time for years now that we barely reached 48k during the evening...
Before the boon totems release, survivor queue were fast, now they are pretty long. If you don't see the links between those events, i cannot help you, it's pretty obvious of what is happening right now.
When many streamers are making videos to explain how disgusted they are about the SBMM and the boons, it's concerning. You don't see it ? Fine for you. What can i say ? urn on your computer's screen and go check some info on youtube, reddit, twitter etc...
Alright, I'm following you! I see where all of the things you're saying connect, I get it. Experienced killers are leaving because of SBMM and boon totems, I'm with you. All of that makes sense.
What I'm missing is how that concept connects to what we're talking about. We're talking about the fact that not everyone is negative about boon totems, how does that connect to experienced killers leaving?
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671240#Comment_2671240
Yes, I know.
All I am saying is that, when the topic is really subjective, sometimes it is unnecessary to call out disagreeing opinions.
You'd think someone of that opinion wouldn't have waded in to this thread to call out their disagreeing opinion.
Fair enough, though.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671218#Comment_2671218
Correction:
You didn't really have to point that out to me, considering that it is a subjective topic.
Sure, but it was a direct response to your comment. You're saying enough damage is done, I'm pointing out that while some things got worse, some things got a lot better.
It's a public forum, my man, people are gonna weigh in on your statements.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671151#Comment_2671151
You didn't really need to point that out.
But, if you somehow enjoy those disgusting abominations, good for you.
At least you don't have a bad time, like I do.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671142#Comment_2671142
Well, it switched from killer sided to survivor sided in a game that has more survivor sided maps, so that is not good.
As for Springwood, this one is personal. Its OG version (back when there was just one of it) is my second-favorite map in this game and I never really had a problem with it as killer. Though I guess it depends on one's playstyle.
As for bad lighting and Fog, I think everyone universally agrees that they got worse.
However, as @Aven_Fallen once pointed out, that was actually before the reworks. The Realm Beyond kicked a dead horse on that matter (it was still better than the reworked versions, but you get the idea).
Eh, it's a thread about wanting more Realm Beyond, so I think it's a pretty relevant interjection. More relevant than talking about how much you don't like them, anyway.
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@Beaburd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2671128#Comment_2671128
A mini-rift using re-used tome assets and could be completed by just playing the game normally, and a pumpkin that, when kicked (using the re-used kicking animation for victor and gnomski), did effectively nothing. Then there's the barely-noticable aesthetic improvements to generators and hooks in the form of a single candle and maybe some vines.
Then the BP rewards were a flat 666,666 and BP from special gens/hooks. The problem here is, unless you used all the offerings and add-ons in your bloodweb effectively, you were probably spending more than you gained from the latter.
So, to me, the grand Halloween event was just a couple of skins with re-used assets and a near non-existent promotion of interactivity between users.
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Meanwhile Christmas here gives you shards, way more bloodpoints, and even auric cells.
The calender is also simple, but at least it's something commonly associated with the holiday and promotes you to do something (logging in) that the Halloween event didn't even encourage because it just gave you a one-time flat BP bonus that got widdle away by expiring add-ons and offerings that you were forced to buy.
The pumpkins might be holiday related, but they were tucked in niche corners, barely visible, and even their treats weren't worth going for.
Doesn't matter how original it was, a mini-rift of challenges and cosmetics with changes to the trial itself, regardless of how impactful those changes were, are more of an event than a daily rewards calendar.
Not arguing that you should've liked the Halloween event, but saying that this is more than the Halloween event is just plain wrong.
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@GeneralV said:
Hopefully never.
Enough damage has been done already.
If they continue, one of three things will happen:
Option 1: The map will lose what makes them special (MacMillan and Coldwind)
Option 2: The map will become extremely ######### ugly (Yamaoka)
Option 3: The map will become extremely unbalanced (The Game)
Extra option 4: All of the above (Springwood)
It is time to stop. It really is.
Coldwind and The Game look immensely better, and while people do still complain about Coldwind, I generally have a much better time on it.
Balance can be argued but in my opinion the Realm Beyond has made maps look much, much nicer, in ways that actually affects gameplay; it used to be really hard to navigate The Game because the stairs weren't see through and because it was way too dark, and similarly, the corn is much less of a problem now that the map's been brightened up.
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@Beaburd said:
Am I crazy or does this simple winter calender feel more like an event than the Halloween event we had?
It's simple, and there's no skin rewards that I know of, but it kind of feels nice to have periodic rewards in the form of a well-known holiday calender.
Maybe I'm just too bitter about the Halloween event due to failed expectations though.
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Also for anyone not aware:
There's apparently a twitch prime gaming dbd collab going on for free 500 auric cells. And yes, I'm treating this as part of the Christmas event.
It's definitely you. A mini-rift of challenges and additions to the base game is definitely more of an event than a daily rewards calendar.
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I think it's strange that you talk about her ability to shut down loops and say that was "remedied a little bit" by idle crows no longer doing damage, but that was... her entire ability to shut down loops? At the very least, it's the easy way of shutting down loops- in order to hit you at a loop she has to set up her crows in the right position, time it right, and hit you manually.
They actually fixed the problem of the easy anti-loop, low-skill playstyle.
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@BaldursGate2 said:
Cool Rift fragements, if you have allready max tier.
It never fails to amaze me how people will find something to complain about even in unambiguously positive free-rewards events.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670628#Comment_2670628
Ok, so a couple things to set the stage.
Firstly, Killers do in fact need to be unbeatable in the 1v1... eventually. That's why the Entity Blocker and Bloodlust exist; actual infinites have mostly gotten removed from the game; also, Survivors can't rebuild pallets. A perkless Trapper who's not using traps on Fractured Cowshed or Haddonfield still needs to be able to eventually down anyone. Why? Because in a 1v4 game, a member of the 4 should not be able to survive the undivided attention of the 1 without assistance forever. If they can, then that's a massive problem that needs fixed.
Secondly, despite what I just said above, there should not be a killer who is guaranteed to get a down in X seconds and there's nothing a Survivor can do to extend that time. To the best of my knowledge the only time we've had a killer like that, was when Old Legion existed. They got reworked for a reason and mostly can't do that anymore.
Now... with that established... I would argue that nothing in the game falls into either obviously unhealthy extremes anymore. Beyond that, everything is subjective. I'm sure you've seen the threads on here where people are asked about their favorite and least favorite killers to face. There's some names that show up more often than others, but there's a wide spread of answers every time those threads pop up and some of them conflict. It is my opinion then that there's nothing in the game so egregiously "unhealthy" that it needs to be changed ASAP no matter the cost.
Old Deathslinger was not an exception.
Did he maybe need changes? Maybe, maybe not. However, since he isn't in the position of "So bad that it needs to be replaced ASAP", any change made to him needed to be very careful to not remove what people found fun about him. Essentially deleting things people found fun to use for a nebulous and subjective "unfun to play against" literally never goes over well. That will piss players off and they will never forget that that happened. Like that is not an exaggeration even a little bit. I've been part of a community where the Devs messed up in this way and 3-4 years later the community still brought it up. That doesn't mean that the Devs can't make nerfs and changes to killers. Far from it. They just need to understand why players use certain parts of their game and not make changes that break that thing. For Spirit, I'd argue they were perfectly successful. They gave the Survivors more info but didn't break the fun of playing Spirit. For Deathslinger, they were not even remotely close to being successful.
They need to walk back at least the quickscope changes and if necessary, add more counter play to the reeling mechanic or somewhere else.
I agree with all of your setup, to be clear, no arguments there.
That being said, old Deathslinger did warrant changing. It wasn't quite as OP as some make it out to be - you may be in a lose/lose situation in chase, but that didn't exactly help him in the long run, he was still a weak killer - but it was cheap, unfair, and unengaging, it was a badly designed mechanic that needed some changing.
Otherwise... I find it really weird how often people retread why the devs ######### up to me here. I know that? I agree with that? How many times do I have to say that I think they messed up before it becomes the last time I say it lol
I do think his ADS speed needs looking at. He shouldn't be able to spam fire as quickly as he did before, but there's no excuse for how clunky and slow he feels right now. The quickscope itself is a bit less of a problem when it's balanced with no ADS faking and a slight cooldown before you can raise the gun back up again, but he should still have to fully raise his gun, even if we speed up how quickly he can do that.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670907#Comment_2670907
I don't talk about the existence of skilled players in the playerbase i talk about the fact that all experienced killers have left because of SBMM + boons.
That's crazy how ppl interpret everything to their liking just to try to cancel a valuable argument.
But- okay. As plainly as you can, if you don't mind: What relevance does that have here? How does "there are no experienced killers left" even relate to "not everyone is negative about boons", let alone counter it?
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670837#Comment_2670837
Irrevelent ? Have you even read ? Are you trolling ?
OP was saying that there were many ppl in the community being positive about the boons and in general which is not true because the playerbase is decreasing and i have not face a single skilled killer for weeks now. Last time was 1 month ago against Truetalent and he terribly lost as the game is totally unbalanced.
Unproven ?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FZAA0Y1JZMQ2/image.png
Ye, playerbase is increasing, it even skyrocket you are right. For the record, a new chapter is out, where is the huge peak of players coming back ? Ah ye, nowhere.
Those things aren't connected?? The point is "not everyone is negative about boons" and you're talking about the existence of skilled players in the playerbase, those two things aren't connected. I suppose the point you're trying to make here is that skilled killers must necessarily be negative about boons, but I can hardly assume you mean things you aren't saying and that still wouldn't actually affect the fact that the comment here is about the community at large.
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670783#Comment_2670783
Well, seeing how the playerbase has decreased the last two months + the survivors' extremely long queue time in the evening all this to face a semi-baby killers or campers/tunnelers, it's obvious there are no skilled killers around. By "no" i mean that they are few still playing.
This is the result of SBMM and it worsen with the boons...
Both irrelevant to the post you're quote-responding to, and extremely subjective + unprovable.
Are you trolling?
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@JeanCharpentier said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670761#Comment_2670761
Survivors love boons, sure it makes everything easy, especially CoH that unbalanced the game terribly.
Not just survivors. I'm a killer main and I'm on record saying what a fantastic idea boon totems are, with just a few tweaks to the core mechanic and a hefty nerf to CoH specifically.
Mandy's right. Plenty of people do have positive things to say about boon totems, they're just ignored or accused of being a biased survivor main.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670641#Comment_2670641
That's exactly what add-ons are supposed to be! Why do they have to have drawbacks?! They're supposed to add on to the killer's power!
Iridescents with very strong effects should have drawbacks, for two reasons:
1: To allow them to have actually strong and powerful effects without becoming OP.
2: To inform and influence the way that you play with them, so that they're more for defining the playstyle than being the unambiguously best option.
@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670721#Comment_2670721
The problem is you can't give it a downside equal to it power other wise it should be a purple or green. If it the rarest I should be strong it should cause a threat. That doesn't mean broken and op.
Alot of people on this game don't understand stand what overpowered really is.
Like in a moba I play there was a character the could walk into a 5v1 at 30% health and walk out with a 5k and 70% health you had to be very skilled to pull it off but it still wasn't ok.
I don't think this downside really is equal. Ranged damage through walls, at the cost of having less utility in looping. He can still loop just as well as any M1 killer, and he still has the Chain Hunts to help him out- all this addon means is that you have an easy injure and have to work from there with other tools. If you don't like the idea, don't run the Engineer's Fang? It's not like it's his basekit, you don't have to play in that "injure at range, down up close" style if you don't want to.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670701#Comment_2670701
Ok it did have a downside it took 50% longer to exit the possessed chains animation even if you didn't fire it off plus there a cooldown before you can do anything but move after using his power.
If iri addon can't be strong then they need to change the cost because it 7k bp for just one iri and thats alot.
That's... really not much of a downside. That animation is already pretty quick, and the addon was still very clearly a net gain with no functional, meaningful downside.
Now, there's something you do actually have to take into account when you run this addon. This is exactly how an iridescent should be- very strong, but with downsides/limitations that dictate how you play with it.
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@Gamedozer7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670641#Comment_2670641
Did you just saying pulling something off that takes skill shouldn't be strong?
Not sure where you got that from, but we'll see if I can rephrase for better clarity!
Something which increases power to the degree of Engineer's Fang should have a downside. Engineer's Fang is still just as strong for the effect that it actually gives, and the tradeoff for that strength is that the slowdown on injured survivors when you hit them with an M2 chain is less effective.
You can use a second addon to cover that downside, or you can play around it. An addon that makes a power much stronger just should have a downside, which this does.
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670600#Comment_2670600
So you never play survivor and rarely played Slinger? Do you want me to take you seriously at all? HOW the hell can you even say something like "you can't predict it" when you never even played against him? Do you really form your opinion by watching some random streamer? That's ridiculous.
Again, you never needed cues, even current Slinger doesn't have cues at all (no, you still can't react to a 0.4 seconds ADS). He was never that hard to go against like everyone pretends he was. If anyone who complained about old Slinger thinks the current version is okay is being a HYPOCRITE, because you still can't react to a quickscope.
The difference is that the devs made the worst decision they could ever make to a killer: they made him unfun to play as. Would have been better to straight up delete the character and refund the shards/cells honestly.
But whatever, I can't really take seriously someone who writes so much about a character that you never really played against and barely played as, you clearly don't understand how this killer works at all.
The ability to analyse and the ability to play are separate skillsets. If I told you that I played a ton of Deathslinger, that wouldn't lend any more weight to my arguments, despite what some people might think. You're welcome to debate with me or you're welcome to drop the topic, I'm not expecting anything on that front.
Obligatory reminder that I don't think current Slinger is okay, I just am aware of and recognise what his problem areas were.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670474#Comment_2670474
Y'all act like you just put this add-on on and everyone's instadownable. That's not how it works. You have to take time to spawn, aim, and launch the chain, then you catch up to the survivor, AND THEN the chase starts. Things can go wrong. You could miss, your gateway could be inside a wall or be some place you can't hit them, they could dodge it, you could not even get value out of it because it's simpler just to M1 the person in front of you. Pinhead does have a hard time downing people, because of the nature of his weak anti-loop power, which actually becomes weaker because of this add-on :).
Yeah, bud, you do still have to play well and you do have to overcome the downside to the very strong opener, that's not a particularly great argument.
The effect of the Engineer's Fang is really strong, there should be a downside, and I think having the now-damaging power not working as well on injured targets is perfectly legitimate. You can prop up that side with addons, or go for regular chases with some perks to help out if you think you're up for it. You shouldn't get to just make his power much stronger with no downside, that's bad addon design.
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@FFirebrandd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670600#Comment_2670600
I have a question for you. Why should Survivors be able to beat every single Killer the same way? Why shouldn't there be Killers who crush the 1v1 but flounder in the 1v4? Why shouldn't there be Killers who's 1v4 is fantastic, but their 1v1 is lackluster? I would think that having both those extremes and ones in the middle too obviously would make the game a much more fun and varied thing.
There shouldn't be killers who are unbeatable in the 1v1 because that one survivor deserves a chance to actually play the game and not have all their agency taken away. If the game moved to a more explicitly teamwork-focused state then I could see killers that require two survivors to take their attention, but right now, you shouldn't load into a match and realise that you essentially don't get to do anything if you're the unlucky bastard getting chased.
That's not to say there shouldn't be killers who are strong in the 1v1, but survivors do still need to have some kind of agency in the chase beyond guessing and getting lucky.
Obligatory reminder that I don't think Slinger is in a good spot now and just recognise what his problem areas were.
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@Adjatha said:
For those not aware of the numbers involved, let's be clear:
- It takes a survivor 1 second per chain to shake off their chains
- It takes .75 seconds for Pinhead to engage the first person view of the chain after setting the portal
- It takes 1.5 seconds for Pinhead to recover from using his chains and being able to move again.
- Two chains reduce survivor movement to 1.69, one chain to 2.26
So: If a survivor is running forward at the standard 4 m/s, pinhead stops for .75 seconds to go into the chain, takes a variable amount of time to land a hit with it, but let's say 0.25 seconds. The killer then recovers in 1.5 seconds and the survivor breaks free in 2 seconds, giving Pinhead a grand total of 0.87m advantage to catch up over the 0.5 seconds his power is actually slowing the survivor while he can move.
That's roughly 1/2 the bonus Clown gets for hitting you with a bottle, to say nothing of the gas sticking around, hitting multiple survivors, being easier to aim, and not being arbitrarily disabled by random spawn locations.
So, Pinhead's main power at -1 chain is a worse, harder to use, more punishing, single-target CLOWN.
If anyone tells you that the new Engineer's Fang nerf isn't that bad, well they simply don't understand math.
Let's crack into that, shall we?
The flaw in your logic here is that you're working from the premise that the only thing this addon does is reduce chains. You're also putting far too much weight into the possessed chains as his "main" power, but you're not technically wrong with your phrasing there so I'll let it slide.
What the Engineer's Fang actually does is injure someone at range, through walls. The tradeoff for this ability is that the possessed chains are less effective on already injured targets, meaning that by using it, you are changing the way you play Pinhead to put more weight into regular looping with a one-shot down and the Chain Hunts, which are completely unaffected by this nerf. It's still very strong if you know how to use it, all they've done is make it something with a downside instead of just objectively making his power ten times stronger at no cost.
People who are mad about this nerf may understand maths, but the people who aren't mad about it understand game design.
(Though I won't argue with the other commenter who pointed out Clown's oneshot bottle, that addon is busted)
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670566#Comment_2670566
Deathslinger also has to shoot in the direction he's looking into so I don't get this argument.
Maybe you should stop thinking that every Slinger player is a god with an aimbot and start to think of places he will often shoot. The harpoon has a very tiny hitbox, and unlike Huntress he only has 1 chance of getting a shot, and if you're injured, he must guarantee the reel is going to confirm a hit. Most Slingers will only shoot when you are passing near corners, corridors or doorways, because these places it's easier to confirm a shot. These places I guarantee you most of the average/slightly good Slingers will take the bait and waste a shot on them. Again, that's called prediction. It's not a guess because I'm not randomly thinking "hmm he's going to shoot now".
There's no reason to run erratically in the open because very few are going to risk the massive slowdown that is missing a shot, especially when it can be dodged by the slightly wiggle of your character (which doesn't really make you lose distance.
The argument is that the thing you have to predict for those examples is direction, and since they have to be using their power in the direction that they're facing, there are limited options for them to employ, so you can actually reasonably predict it.
Whereas for Slinger, what you had to predict was timing, and there was no cue for that. I will grant you that for below average Deathslingers this doesn't come into play, but even just competent ones would make use of this. Don't assume I have a personal stake in this- I don't play survivor at all and I rarely play Slinger, this isn't a biased personal rant. I've just like, watched people play him, understand the concepts, and have formed a take based on those.
You are right: A Deathslinger is not guaranteed a hit in those scenarios because they might miss, but that's basically it. You can't react to it, you can't predict it, you just have to guess right or get lucky. It wasn't good game design.
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@Krimbar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670535#Comment_2670535
I'm saying that, because the changes that we DO get are almost always unrequested and not welcomed by the community, and the changes a lot of people want are either pushed back into low priority or ignored. I can't prove that bhvr is ignoring feedback, but I think it's pretty obvious that the community is very unhappy with the game and not much is being done to change that.
The community aren't project leads, whether they request an idea has absolutely zero bearing on whether it should be implemented. If they suggest good ideas that don't conflict with other aspects of development, sure, but that's a big if.
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670411#Comment_2670411
No, I mean prediction. The same way you have to predict which direction a Huntress is going to throw a hatchet, which direction a Nurse is going to blink or which direction a Blight is going to rush. You predict when he's going to shoot.
But you have actual information to go on for those? There are visual cues, as well as the audio cue from Huntress- they have to be using their power in the direction they're looking. There is absolutely no cue for when a Deathslinger would actually shoot versus ADS faking, it's just a guess.
Maybe you'll guess right! Maybe the Slinger would just miss! But is it really good design for it to be that up to chance?
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I've never understood the "they don't listen to the community" complaint. There's no evidence of that, unless you take them not immediately implementing popular community ideas into the game as proof that they don't listen- in which case, um, good, it'd be terrible if they implemented every popular community idea.
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It's always surprising when I'm reminded that I'm actually in the minority of people who really likes Billy's roar.
More atmospheric than silence, surely?
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This is a dramatic overreaction, the Engineer's Fang nerf was the single nerf on the list that was unobjectionably necessary. That addon was incredibly strong, and still is incredibly strong, they just gave it a downside.
You can run it with the purple addon that spawns an additional chain, or you can not, because a ranged injure through walls is really strong even if that's the only thing his power gives him- which it isn't, Chain Hunts are unaffected by this nerf.
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670249#Comment_2670249
The counterplay to quickscope was prediction, which was nullified by fake ADS. Quickscope itself has counterplay.
"Dodge, thus losing distance if he doesn't shoot, or run straight, thus making yourself an easy target for when he does shoot." Funny how you don't mention the monstrous distance you could make if you predicted a Slinger shot and he missed. You just had to alternate between dodging moments and running straight moments, just like with Nurse you're not going to double back at every loop.
"Prediction", by which you mean "guessing and getting lucky".
If that's satisfying gameplay for you, then I'm not knocking that for you specifically, but people tend to put a lot of stock into "prediction" as though it's in any way different to or separate from guessing.
@ThePolice said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2667721#Comment_2667721
That’s not quickscope that you described, that’s ads spam which people have agreed is a problem
The quickscope is what made the ADS spam function. If he could ADS spam but it takes a second before he can fire, then the free zoning and lose/lose situations wouldn't have occurred because survivors would have time to react and dodge when the rifle is raised for more than half a second.
"People have agreed is a problem" isn't super relevant here. People have agreed that the quickscope is a problem too, this argument's been had for a long time.
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2670241#Comment_2670241
ADS faking was a problem, quickscope was really not.
They were part and parcel of the same problem. If Deathslinger had never been able to quickscope, the free zoning he'd have gotten from ADS faking never would've been possible because people would've had time to react to the shot when he did commit to it. As it was, you were stuck in a lose-lose scenario where he'd keep partially raising the gun, and you'd have two choices: Dodge, thus losing distance if he doesn't shoot, or run straight, thus making yourself an easy target for when he does shoot.
They weren't ever fully separate issues, and they both warranted changing.
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@Labrac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2666549#Comment_2666549
I don't know how nerfing a B tier killer was "necessary". His ADS time is still fast enough that you can't really react to his shot. Everything the change did was make Monitor a must on him instead of a strong perk, and make him feel clunky af to play as.
Quickscoping and ADS faking were a problem, and were totally legitimate targets for changing. BHVR handling something poorly doesn't magically make that something no longer an issue that warranted handling to begin with.
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This is the achievement, I'd assume the "eyrie" is the main building but in fairness I don't actually know that.
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Go for a build that encourages breaking over blessing. Plaything and Thrill together usually do the job, but it's going to be a tricky perk to get working.
Survivors do sometimes cleanse totems. You've got the people who stubbornly cling to perks like Inner Strength, and people who don't bring boons and don't care about their teammates who did, so you will see some broken totems from time to time even without that- just be prepared for Pentimento to be a dead perk if you don't bring anything to prop it up.