jesterkind
jesterkind
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@DragonJester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2683814#Comment_2683814
What exactly would proof be then? And why does it matter whether there is proof or not? If you ask people to vote for you, you ask for their opinions. People can feel however they want, based on whatever they want, and just because you don't think it's indicative of anything doesn't mean it actually isn't.
Just because YOU don't think waiting a week to mention a DDOS issue isn't evidence, doesn't mean it isn't. No one can directly view into anyone's heart so saying there's no proof of their feelings when the topic is on their feelings or opinions is absolutely trying to be dismissive of said opinions.
I've yet to see you say to anyone speaking positively that there's no proof that they love the game, but you've gone out of your way to tell everyone on the opposite side that maybe they should reconsider. You're not being objective, you're being defensive and dismissive as if you can't accept people have a multitude of reasons to feel the way they do and you need to disprove it.
What on earth are you talking about?
I don't want proof of your feelings, I want proof of the thing that is being accused here. You can feel however you want, I don't care, but I'm not going to follow suit unless there's actual reason to. Again, I point you to the fact that my initial post was just answering the question in the thread- every other post I've made here is in response to someone else arguing with me, and I'm obviously going to defend my position when someone does that.
So if the confusion here is that you think I'm invested in how other people feel about the game or its developers, I'm happy to clear that confusion up- I'm defending my position on the topic, not the other way around.
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@DragonJester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2683792#Comment_2683792
Na, we've said our opinions on why we feel how we feel about this being a labor of love. If all you can say to everyone's opinions is "Well no, this doesn't 100% mean they did this with malice" then yea, no #########. No one here is a mind reader, including yourself.
Instead of trying to understand or acknowledge why people might feel a why you've spent this entire thread telling people why their opinion is invalid because it can't be 100% confirmed.
I understand and acknowledge why people feel the way they feel, and all I'm doing is also sharing how I feel. I acknowledge that people think BHVR are lazy cash-grabbing types, and my answer to that is that there's really no evidence of it. That's all that's happening here, I'm not trying to shut anyone down- a question was asked, I answered, and people have then initiated arguments based on my answer to the question.
What am I supposed to do, instantly fold when someone disagrees?
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@DragonJester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2683730#Comment_2683730
If your every argument is just "These things they did wrong don't mean anything" or "These people don't represent anything meaningful" then no need to have this convo. Agree to disagree.
Uhhh... huh? Mind clarifying? I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
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@DragonJester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678834#Comment_2678834
I feel like the amount of people on every social media platform saying they dont deserve the nom does...
Negativity bias. Fewer people feel inclined to post about a game they're enjoying just to say they enjoy it, but people are very inclined to talk about something they dislike. Not to mention that the social media platforms tend to be almost entirely negative anyway- even the DS change got an overwhelmingly negative response on twitter despite it being one of the best changes they've made.
This goes triple when it comes to things like the examples I'm usually shown for BHVR showing a lack of respect for their playerbase. Like the "play something else" clip, where the one dev, whoever it was, just gave the correct answer to the question being presented, or any given accusation of BHVR lying when that isn't happening.
Not to say they're perfect devs, they're not, I'm not defending them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2682894#Comment_2682894
If that's a valid strategy then DS and DH are viable perks that don't need any change at all
...DS is a valid perk that doesn't need any changes. It's been that way for months, what are you on about?
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Would this shut off if the last generator is complete? What if another survivor is looping the killer around that hook? Does the range change depending on the size of the map and how much of the map the radius covers?
It's easy to come up with an idea but there's a reason it's a difficult problem to solve. If you punish the killer for being near the hook, then survivors will abuse that mechanic to get themselves an advantage that the killer can't do anything about. From your wording, it sounds like this slowdown would apply if the killer's close to the hook no matter what, and I'm sure it's becoming obvious why that's a terrible idea.
It's very hard to come up with a solution that doesn't punish killers playing legitimately (looping near the hook, proxy camping, being on a small map, being in the endgame...) and that the other team can't abuse for their own advantage.
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This isn't just BHVR, other games do this too. I don't know who started this trend but it's definitely annoying, even if it might be more efficient in the long run...
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@RoachesDelight said:
Didn't the devs say they're going to be doing some sort of early game collapse? Or did that just get abandoned?
They said it as a plan a long time ago, then in the most recent QnA said that they had been working on it but couldn't find any way of making it work that wasn't just worse than not having it for whatever reason. So it's currently shelved, from what I can gather.
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If a perk has such a fundamentally necessary effect that people should be expected to run it every single game, then that's a good indication you should at least consider adding something in to the base game that helps with whatever that perk does.
It happens with killer addons all the time because it's blatantly obvious in those instances that if every single viable build for Trapper involves one of his bags, something is wrong with his basekit that those bags cover. Why would it be different for survivor perks? If you need Kindred to survive as a solo player, maybe something should be changed regarding how much information survivors have by default.
It's not about handholding, it's not about giving preferential treatment, it's about identifying issues and coming up with smart solutions to them; in this case, maybe that's Kindred basekit, maybe it's something else, but it's something that isn't currently there.
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@Marigoria said:
Because it doesn't work, and since it's hidden there's no actual proof of it working.
What are you basing that on, to come to that conclusion over the more obvious ones? I'm curious.
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It was said above, but there are two reasons:
1: It's not a progression system. If you could see what your score is, and thus figure out your gains and losses, people would understandably start trying to game the system, and it's not designed for that. It's supposed to be working in the background while you're going for maxing out the emblem system for those reward BP. Does that work? Eh. But it's what it's supposed to be doing.
2: Go check how people talk about the ranked mode in any game that has it. See how they respond to arguments or comments from people on the lower end of the ladder. That is not necessary for this game, it'd just make things even more toxic.
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Enjoying the new weapons for sure, I appreciate the MK-Seven rifle quite a lot and I really enjoy that the Hunter Bolt-Action is actually usable since the regular bolt action is one of the worst guns in the game.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
No thank you. Nothing short of being able to break the totem is good enough.
Seems a bit petty to me. Wouldn't it be a good idea to at least try to make boons work before shrugging and giving up?
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The first step towards fixing all of this game's problems is going to have to be fixing survivor spawns. They shouldn't spawn fully spread out, they shouldn't spawn as close to generators as they do now, they shouldn't spawn on top of totems... once that's fixed, caution should be taken to not make generators take too long, but I could see some further changes to nerf repair speed increases like toolboxes and perks.
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Exposed means instadown, not aura reading...
Or, more legitimately, that playing to your role instead of playing "to win" is more engaging and less likely to be frustrating, especially as a killer. Not everyone dies in a slasher movie, and sometimes the fun is in being a menacing presence rather than an efficient killer.
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@Myla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2681534#Comment_2681534
Unless you got Haddonfield.
Ehhh, Haddonfield is a problem map, it's not really super accurate to bring that up to make out like 4.4 killers are unfairly punished by the base game chase mechanic. It's bad for 4.6 killers too, after all.
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I think those first two ideas are very good, but I don't think the third one is necessary once you've implemented the first two. I'm fine with two or more survivors scurrying away to their totem to actually use the higher healing boost number, that still usually works out in my favour as the killer.
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Most 4.4m/s killers have some mechanic for ending chases that isn't just looping, is the thing. Huntress and Trickster can injure at range (one more easily than the other), Hag wants to run survivors into her territory when she can just Nothing Personnel, Kid teleport to them, and so on and so forth.
That's why killers are made 4.4, because their power helps them in chases without getting to melee range the normal way.
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@CowabungaDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2668871#Comment_2668871
ah yes, let me just stop the claudette from unhooking me
Well, what if you could? Wouldn't that be a better solution than something that punishes the killer because their opponents made a bad play?
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You really don't need the map, because the map implies you're going to go cleanse every dull totem before NOED activates. If you have time to do that and you want to, great, you'll guarantee that NOED doesn't proc and the killer will have a dead perk slot - if they have it.
Rather, you keep note of where the dulls are and if NOED does proc, you go take care of it, IF AND ONLY IF you choose to take the risk of staying in the trial. There's another, far more potent counter to NOED, and it's to leave as quickly as possible while leaving the sorry sucker who got hit on the hook. You do not have to save them, and if you do, that's a very altruistic move but you're knowingly taking the risk of giving the killer value, same as going for a save against an instadown camper.
The only unfair thing about NOED is that one person doesn't get the chance to just leave, and that's the change I'd support making.
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Absolute pipe dream version: Homestuck. Vriska as a survivor, not sure who the killer would be but there's options. Heck, go real obscure and use one of Eridan's "angel" denizens, that'd be freaky as hell. One of the Lands as the associated map, or a grimy biotech Alternia urban type map... it'd be so good. Or maybe just licensed cosmetics, like Oni getting a Grand Highblood skin and survivors getting smudged grey face paint and lopsided horn headband cosmetics...
But more realistically, a survivor-only paragraph for Hellblazer. John Constantine is basically the perfect survivor, at least the old Vertigo version, and I'd absolutely love to see him make his way to Dead By Daylight. He was even in their survey, the comics dropdown on wanted licenses had Hellblazer! It's not impossible.
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You don't. You play for reasons other than winning for a little while- practising a new killer, learning how specific perks/addons/elements of the game functions, learning the layouts of specific maps...
Just play the game without trying to win, gain a better understanding of it, and as a consequence your MMR is probably going to lower- but even if it doesn't, once you've stopped putting all of your expectations into winning you're bound to enjoy the game more.
Or just grab the free copy on Epic, I guess.
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The Billies are returning... nature is healing.
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I respectfully disagree on this one. Gift Of Pain is really mediocre, there's no denying that, but Pain Resonance is a genuinely very good perk, it's not bad at all.
As for the RNG aspect, I think tweaking that directly is a better call. Have it be more of a guaranteed spread, so you don't end up with all four on one side of the map, and I think it'll be a lot better than changing how the hooks spawn or how many there are.
Regarding basement hooks, I'd sooner see that be a rework for Monstrous Shrine to make it more of a support perk for Scourge Hooks as more of them are added down the line. Technically speaking the two we have are already slowdown and tracking, so with a few more options, theoretically a full Scourge build is possible. What I'd sooner see for Scourge Hooks as a base mechanic is having them respawn after killing someone on them, on a timer, since there are only four on the map and it's not feasible to expect the killer to simply go for another one to avoid losing that effect.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/298406/my-opinion-on-every-killer-at-the-moment
Assume a non-mention is an agreement.
Trapper - Yes. Far too many killers have a kit that essentially feels like 'this is designed for camping'. Trapper's big problem is RNG on trap spawns and setup time on some maps.
Wraith - The nerf was entirely unneeded. CoH and the adjustment to All Seeing would have brought him down significantly. Now he feels awful to play.
Nurse - She needs a complete teardown overhaul. In 4/5 matches, she gets rolled. Then you get the 1000 hour Nurse that is unstoppable. She's too streaky, difficult to learn and almost impossible to counter once you master her.
Hag - People overrate her (me included). Back in the day, she was a monster. Now...people know how to play around her, to set off traps safely and to abuse her immobility. Her addons are also bleh.
Doctor - Badly needs an addon pass. Far too many are funky, but useless. His shocks need their validation adjusted because they just totally fail to work 1/3 of the time.
Bubba - Another teardown job. If you aren't camping, you'd better hope you are crazy good, survivors forget how to abuse vaults and you don't get the wrong map.
Pig - She'd be so easy to fix by simply reducing her terror radius to 24 and fixing her addons which tend to be frustrating RNG gimmicks that either do nothing or straight up kill people because they got unlucky. Her crouch/lunge ones should be made baseline.
Plague - Blindingly perfect killer, should be the balance target for all killers.
Demo - So close to being great. Against random groups he's astonishingly fun - but wow can he get rolled when you face survivors that know what they are doing. Shreds are too telegraphed and way too easy to juke. If they increased the 'speed' of shreds and maybe souped up some of his crappier addons (0.5 seconds added to undetectable as a green addon feels like a typo) he'd be perfect.
PH - Good kit, desperately needs a complete addon rework though. Most of them are boring or borderline useless.
Trickster - Massive waste of potential. He doesn't feel 'tricky', and also feels like he wandered in from an entirely different genre of games. His kit is literally impossible to balance, and people hate playing against him.
Nemesis - Give him a third zombie.
Cenobite - Badly needs some help somewhere in his basekit (making chains not useless indoors would be a great start). His addon nerfs were absolutely nuts, leaving the one problematic addon mostly intact and nerfing all the fun ones to the ground. He's a great pubstomper but falls over on certain maps versus decent groups.
Artist - I really like her, but she's just...clunky. All the hitching reminds me of pre-rework Plague. Her purple and iri addons feel like an afterthought and need to be completely reworked.
Rather than giving him a third zombie (which I'm given to understand was initially the plan but had insurmountable issues implementing, which is a shame), what I'd do for Nemesis is overhaul the pathing AI for the two we have and dramatically overhaul the zombie-related addons. Most of his other ones are fine (with glaring exceptions), but the zombie ones are just... underwhelming.
Speed is nice, as is detection cone, but the iri is really underwhelming and the purples aren't much better. I really want to like the Depleted Ink Ribbon because its theming is spot on perfect, probably the best themed addon in the game, but the actual effect is... pretty RNG. I'd have it instantly kill + respawn both zombies as soon as the last generator is complete, one in each gate, have it be more of a guarantee since it's such a late-game addon. His iri needs an overhaul- my suggested fix is to make it a permanent speed boost for each generator completed that scales, though obviously the % would be brought down a lot for each completion lol. Also, maybe toy with making Zombie hits count as basic attacks? That seems like a funky idea for an iri addon imo.
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@xili84 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2679153#Comment_2679153
I understand, But 3 ppl in 1 team? Multiple games in a row?
Don't get me wrong, it COULD be true. But if that is the case, BHVR seriously needs to look at changing how MMR works. If this many people are abusing the system to get lower... My guess is it is not just bullies, but also people that feel they are not where they belong.
Definitely tremendously poor luck on your part to see it so often, either way.
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I somewhat doubt what you're describing is the result of bots- we know exactly what level of quality to expect from bots because this game has them already, in the tutorials, and they're honestly not that bad.
They certainly don't just stand in place, that's probably a human player trying to lower their MMR or something.
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Best of luck, hope the break helps!
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I like all of these changes except for Hope- I don't think survivors need any more incentive to linger in the trial for longer than necessary, letting them kite the killer all the way through the EGC is a recipe for massive frustration.
The rest are definitely good- I especially like the idea for Left Behind, that's my pick for how to fix that perk. Let it be the Key equivalent of Saboteur for Toolboxes and Self-Care for Medkits, it won't even be particularly good but it'll make Bill's Adept a little less painful and it'll have some utility.
Fire Up would have to be monitored for OP combinations with other perks, but honestly, I don't think there's that much of a concern there. Still, warrants mentioning.
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It's easily Pain Resonance. Gift of Pain isn't completely useless, but Pain Resonance is actively good. If you're only going for one, go for Pain Resonance.
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A lot of those changes just straight up weren't very good. Most of the killer-specific changes were mediocre (Legion aside, that was pretty good), some stuff was so vague that it's impossible not to sound good (we'd all like "we improved tile spawns" to be in some patch notes but what exactly does that look like?), some stuff was actively bad (like removing Bloodlust), and some was pointless and petty (removing Overheat, for example).
Some of those ideas were good. The Kindred changes looked pretty decent, though they'd need to be tested, and I actually don't hate the killer realm-ban system he proposed... but the good ideas were not the majority.
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I'd agree with this. It's honestly not that powerful of a perk unless you go hard into an endgame build (at which point it's certainly reasonable that you'd get value from it), but the fact that it can surprise the one guy who doesn't actually have a chance to employ the perk's counterplay isn't super fair.
I'll take anything that encourages survivors to leave the damn trial in the endgame, so having them know NOED is active might help push them out of the gate without them stopping to practice their squats first.
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@RainehDaze said:
I'd like a clockpunk or steampunk robot killer, I guess? Outright sci-fi is a bit hard without licenses.
That made me think of the clockwork robots from Dishonored, something like that could be pretty sick
Maybe not that specifically, but something in that vein
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@DragonJester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678292#Comment_2678292
Just because you don't think they're compelling doesn't mean they weren't to everyone else.
And just because you do think they're compelling doesn't mean they were to anyone else, either.
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@ShadowNurseZFX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2675946#Comment_2675946
Dude, you have an infinite resource of healing from the ground up. the problem with boons is they are an infinite resource. That's literally it. An infinite resource.
My solution is to make it so there's a ban system. The killer can select 2 maps to ban, and the killer can also pick where their hexes spawn, so they are in more control over the game. this would be awesome.
Also, they should make all big maps smaller.
Remove house of pain, or nerf it. Rework Haddonfield, Remove lots of pallets from "The Game" gideon meat packing.
Thats all they should do
The problem with boons is not that they are an infinite resource, the problem is that Circle Of Healing is too strong to be an infinite resource. Shadow Step and Exponential are fine, those being infinitely relightable is nowhere near as much of a problem.
I say again, the infinite resource part is the design of the mechanic, there should at least be an attempt to balance the perks themselves around it before throwing it out.
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@DragonJester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677997#Comment_2677997
You missed the part where I mentioned their terrible reactions to the community outside of the game. So you'll need to inform me on where you think this love is that the rest of us are so blind to.
If you stopped trying to paint differing opinions to make yourself feel like you have an optimistic high ground, this would be a much simpler discussion.
What terrible reactions are you referring to, exactly? I've seen a few examples before, but they've never been particularly compelling as even incorrect, let alone reason to start slinging around comments about not caring or what have you.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678166#Comment_2678166
I really don't understand why you want to balance around all ranks. The game would naturally become balanced around all ranks after balancing it at the top lets say 30% because we have this handy dandy thing called SBMM where bad/new killers will go against bad/new survivors.
I see what you are saying. Forums are generally filled with people who are not happy with something because like with reviews, people don't generally bother writing one when they are happy with the product. There is also a large varied pool of skills and biases.
This is why i still think they should reveal future plans to streamers / youtubers that play both sides equally as you will get a healthy mix of bias and understanding of each sides view. This would result in compromises that everyone thinks is fair and in the end would lead to a healthier game. I am not asking them to reveal it to the general public on the forums as yes, that is pointless. But they do need a group of people who know the game to point out the flaws in their ideas.
The Fog whisperer program should have been used for this, but they got turned into pure marketing and nothing else.
Again, SBMM takes care of the lower ranks and new players who will eventually learn while keeping the top who already know the game inside and out interesting. We should not be concerned with little Johnny with 20 hours because he should be getting Billy with 20 hours as a killer.
It's not that I want to balance around all ranks, that's just how game balance works. You can't keep things that stomp on newbies unchecked simply because they're only moderately powerful for tournament level players, and you also have to keep an eye on the middle of the ladder too, because they're all players who matter and whose experience is meaningful. Obviously you can't over-balance for any one demographic, but they all should be taken into account.
Regarding a group of people with an understanding of the game to bounce their ideas off, I do agree, but we don't really have any indication that they don't do that to my knowledge? if they've ever said for sure that they don't, alright, I agree with that being a method that'll help the game grow healthier, but it's very different from "transparency" and "listening to the community".
I do empathise with the idea of SBMM catering for lower ranks, but it doesn't do that on its own. The game itself still needs to be balanced, and their ranks are still important to take into account for doing so.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678101#Comment_2678101
Plenty of people they can talk to or hire who objectively know more about the game then bhvr do.
I hate to say it, but streamers and youtubers that play BOTH SIDES should be hired, hell they give feedback for free ffs but are ignored. The reason they are ignored is because they don't care about what generates the most money the fastest way possible (revolving door / free on epic games) and rather the longevity and fairness of the game.
The DS nerf was just a side grade and people are starting to run it again after moping in a corner for a while. it took them 4 years to finally listen to feedback and from what i saw the change was universally accepted when you cut through the rage posts from low rankers.
If they were faster with updates and were actually open to trying things and reverting them if they don't work out, then we wouldn't need to know their plans ahead of time to stop them wasting money.
Its fine to force something down our throats as long as they say they will and take feedback into account to make it fair. I think anyone with half a braincell would have warned them about COH and the boon mechanic in general but here we are, having to wait a year+ before they change it to be fair (or when the killer numbers get to low as usual) where they will do what people have said from day one.
Even more useful than hiring streamers and youtubers that play BOTH SIDES(!!!) would be to hire and listen to people who understand how game balancing works and who aren't going to have the bias of only really knowing how things work at their level. The input of players like Otzdarva or whoever is useful, but you say they're giving their feedback for free and are being ignored- again I ask, as opposed to what? Doing what they say is best for the game because it'll improve things at their level? They aren't the only players and new additions/changes have to be weighed against all levels, not just the top.
Of course, that's somewhat irrelevant- you'll notice we've moved from transparency to listening to feedback. That's a completely different beast to transparency- if they'd announced Circle of Healing in advance of it being added to the PtB, everyone would've started yelling about it, and they would've put it in anyway, because people on the internet don't control what gets put into a game they happen to play, and nor should they.
And let's look at how people are yelling about boons now, shall we? Now that they're in the game, what's the feedback that BHVR should supposedly be listening to? At least on this forum, the bone-headedly stupid idea that boons should be broken entirely when snuffed is a very common one. That's not feedback they should be listening to, nor is it the only instance of the majority census being wrong; I again point to the DS changes, a very serious percentage of people were mad about that and BHVR smartly didn't listen to it.
"Rage posts from low rankers". Ah, now we're getting there- it's not that they should just "listen to feedback", it's that they should listen to what you think "high rank" feedback is. Got it.
BVHR make bad decisions but the fix to that obviously isn't transparency - because if they just announced their bad decisions sooner people would simply be mad for longer - and it can't just be to """listen to the community/feedback""" because that raises the question of which feedback, when a very vocal majority of it tends to be either unhelpfully hostile or just utterly wrong. It's easy to say feedback from "high ranks", but that doesn't automatically mean their feedback would work for all ranks of the game.
And then we cycle back around to having no evidence that they don't listen to feedback, now that we understand that doing so wouldn't automatically translate into changes being made to the game. No evidence that they don't listen to feedback, and a generally acceptable level of transparency given how hostile the community is regardless of the quality of the thing they're responding to... what's the problem again?
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This... doesn't seem like the areas where DH is actually busted? It seems like more of a frustrating reality of very cocky, aggressive-playstyle survivors, where DH played a part in them clowning on you.
DH doesn't seem to be at fault for this, is what I'm saying.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678091#Comment_2678091
Saying nothing and doing the update without any feedback just makes the backlash worse imo since they wasted development time on something that may be universally bad for the game and disliked.
As we have seen,, once they spend money on something it is going in the game like it or not.
What's the alternative? Running every change by the handful of people who are inclined to give feedback and letting them have absolute power of veto over everything?
I'm glad you said that, actually. That's the real problem here- transparency wouldn't translate into """the community""" having any actual power over what they do and don't add, it'd just make people mad a little sooner than now. And it would make people mad no matter what- I'm sure you remember how frothingly, incandescently angry people got over the DS nerf, even though it was unambiguously necessary and a good idea.
Nobody actually seems to care about transparency from BHVR, they just think that if BHVR mention something before doing it and they don't like it, they'd have the ability to change it.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2674912#Comment_2674912
Depends what you are being transparent about... If you come out saying "we are going to nerf all killers to m1 only over the next year because new players can't deal with powers" Then how do you expect the community to react?
Proving my point exactly.
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@PixelBush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677994#Comment_2677994
I think it's the kind of perk that will sadly have to be gutted to make it fair: healing yourself is one of the most powerful things a Survivor can do, and being able to do so efficiently without wasting resources out of a perk your teammate brought is obscene. It's why old Self Care was so busted and had to get GUTTED to become fair: if Self Care on its own is ever good, that's terrible for the health of the game.
Circle of Healing is just old Self Care on steroids.
You may be right, unfortunately. I do think it could have some value as a healing station for altruistic heals without being busted, though, so maybe tweaking the numbers to emphasise that could help it still be useful without being OP.
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Agreeing with others here- deactivate the generator repair speed if there are other survivors nearby and/or the killer is in a chase, and this would probably work. It'd need testing though- any attempt at punishing camping seems to start backfiring somewhere along the line.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2678006#Comment_2678006
The implication is that a product of a labor of love will generally have a quality that matches that labor of love. Hence, the expectation that a labor of love will stand out in that regard, even if it can be a little rough around the edges in places.
TBH, I don't really believe that what BHVR is doing is necessarily a sign of caring deeply. No more than any other game that continuously pumps out content. Like, what makes BHVR's efforts toward the game more a "labor of love" than other games?
If you don't believe the quality warrants voting for it as a winner, then by all means, don't vote for it to win, but people keep responding to me as though they aren't a legitimate nominee and as though they're corporate scumbags pumping out lazy, uncaring cash grabs, which is what I'm disputing.
As for what I'm basing it on, I'm basing it on how much work and care is put into the content they produce. Maybe less so the events, those are getting a little sloppy, but each DLC clearly has a lot of work put into it, far more than any cash grab. That's not to say there aren't problems with them, nor that they're even really needed, but they clearly aren't a product of not caring about what you're pumping out.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677900#Comment_2677900
Why is that weird? You seem to be the only person who doesn't have some expectation of quality. Even the one other person in this thread who said yes is speaking about the quality of the game.
Because that's not what that phrase means? Either there's the literal definition- something undertaken out of passion without being paid- that doesn't apply to this context, or there's the definition supplied by Steam; developers who continually update and care for their game in an active capacity.
That doesn't imply quality anywhere. I don't think the game is as dramatically busted as others, but even if it were, that doesn't technically apply here. What's being measured is how much developers care for their game, and I think it's incredibly obvious that BHVR care deeply- they're just inconsistently competent at actually applying that to the game's quality.
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@DragonJester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677220#Comment_2677220
Compared to every other indie game on the market? Absolutely not. The vast majority of the community is not happy with the game, and this goes beyond the community being somewhat whiny. Simple problems are ignored, large community outcries are responded to tactlessly, and it's not a coincidence that the appearance of any other game in this genre has tons of people looking for greener pastures.
Whatever love is or was here, I definitely don't feel it. And for a company that was said to be one of the best to work at, it doesn't really seem to be translating to their product which is REALLY disappointing.
This game feels like someone got lucky with something catching on and ran with it as best they could for as long as they could, but we're way past that point right now.
I really don't know why so many people are resistant to the idea that BHVR obviously care a lot about their darling, and they're just somewhat bad at balancing + ongoing development. Does it make it easier to swallow to think they're greedy corporate scumbags who don't care about the game or something?
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@PixelBush said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677280#Comment_2677280
I fully concur.
Shadow Step is honestly fine, and Exponential is basically just a Twins-killer (and that's because Twins buffs need to happen, not because Exponential is a problematic perk) that sucks against basically any other Killer.
Circle of Healing is absolutely gigabusted. No question about it.
That's true, I neglected to mention Twins- so that's one (sadly super neglected and maligned) killer and a few extraordinarily niche circumstances for Exponential to get any value.
I admit to not really having a concrete idea for how to best nerf CoH, though. I don't want it to just be nuked into nothingness, but it really can't stay as it is- a cap on self healing and a limit on how much it can stack with for altruistic healing, maybe?
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677881#Comment_2677881
Well, unfortunately, I can't really say I'm convinced at this being "labor of love." I'd say the amount of content put out is base line for a live service game, and the lack of polish does not speak to me as a labor of love.
I'm deathly curious to know what people think "labour of love" actually means. It seems like everyone expects some implied baseline of quality from something described that way, which is really weird to me.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2677331#Comment_2677331
I'd say the end result of that labor definitely has to count for something. it could be your pride and joy, magnum opus, etc. etc., but if the end result is no good, then it's not going to stack up well compared to something that is someone else's pride and joy, magnum opus, etc. etc. while also having results to match that dedication.
Sure.
But since it's still a labour of love, and since I don't think the end result is nearly as bad as the majority of this thread, that doesn't really change much.
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@Ssajbambusa said:
@jesterkind So MS would be literally doing nothing without other Scourge Hook perks? Bad design.
No? It would have the exact same effects, but it'd also apply the Scourge Hook effects to the basement, and spawn four new ones that have its current effects.
Even if it didn't spawn new ones, though, it'd still be doing exactly the same thing as current Monstrous Shrine.