jesterkind
jesterkind
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@Rivyn said:
@jesterkind The devs already admitted in a dev stream that the MMR system they have is incredibly poor. Balancing is always an issue, but they just compound the problem with this lackluster match making.
Considering how many times I've seen people claim the devs said something, and then backed it up with a clip or screenshot of them saying something completely different, I'm sure you'll forgive me for not believing that first part without evidence. As for the second part, sure, I'd buy it's compounding the issue, but the issue is still a different thing, it'd be a problem regardless of what the matchmaking is- it was a problem with the rank system, and that was garbage.
@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2694008#Comment_2694008
That's also not true.
They deleted all of that data and started fresh not long before MMR went live, iirc.
Also, I disproved that. I bought Freddy and took him into a game after I had played a Nemesis game, someone who I have become very very good with. My Nemesis game was against a pretty good SWF, definitely above average, even from what I usually play against.
Level 1 Freddy, no perks, haven't even opened the BloodWeb and I got matched with the exact same team.
There is no individual Killer MMR, and if there is, it is next to meaningless.
Not long before, but still before- there's a period where they were collecting data before MMR went live, is my point.
As for the rest, that's an interesting experiment- I do already know the difference isn't stark enough for new killers, but if something like that can be replicated and isn't a weird glitch or one off, it'd be pretty huge.
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Surely the fact that getting better at a killer makes the games much harder is more a problem with the game's balancing, rather than the MMR system?
Also, to your other point- your Hag's MMR would be based on the data they collected prior to the MMR being released, the only way you'd get the fresh-start MMR (which isn't fully neutral, since that'd be a bit unfair to pair someone who knows how to play Killer in general against newbies) would be if you haven't played that Killer at all before.
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2694002#Comment_2694002
Add ons pass its not what those killers need they actually need a rework.
Well, Legion does need an addon pass as well- their addons aren't particularly amazing, they only have a few good ones.
What I suspect we'll see, or at least reasonably hope we'll see, is shorter fatigues, shorter cooldowns, faster movement and animation, and maybe a few other tweaks here and there.
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Legion and Ghostface are the ones they're looking at next, according to the last QnA stream, so there's a relatively high chance that Legion will get some buffs whenever they figure out what they want to do there.
I do sympathise with the devs, though- Legion was a busted mess when they released, so it's got to be kind of hard to balance them without them becoming a beast again. My guess is that they're either going to completely tear down their whole power and start from scratch (which seems kind of unlikely), or they'll be receiving some minor numerical tweaks and addon changes, which seems like it'd at least help.
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@NatzAshe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2693966#Comment_2693966
Just vaulting back like you say isn't possible, as the killer would down the vaulting survivor. How can you go back into the vault location that the killet just came through, without the snowman and the noclip effect?
As for a dead end, I was refering to literal dead ends, like the 2F room in Dead Dawg Saloon. If a snowman is there, then get in. The killer has to hit you, giving you time to get back out.
Finally, I never said it was a "Get outta Jail Free Card". It buys your team more time to do more repairs, AND if you're lucky, gives you advantage in a chase. I'm saying that the snowman's effect is more on the whole game's outcome rather than the outcome of the specific chase.
Simply put, even if, and that's an if, you lose distance overall by going into the snowman, the killer time wasted would result in more in total, as it is 4x more valuable.
If the killer just vaulted through it, you're getting hit in the enter animation. If you finished the enter animation before they finish the vault, you would've wasted more of their time running somewhere else.
Which is really what it comes down to. You keep saying it "wastes killer time", but if you're losing distance and gaining nothing, what time is being wasted here? It's either exactly the same for the killer, or they lose less time because the snowmen are kind of rubbish and only work for goofing off or very specific niche situations that don't pop up that often.
So it's not a problem for the vast majority of cases, we've covered that. The niche scenarios it is useful for only give a small amount of extra time-wasting, we've covered that. What's left is to remind you that these aren't designed for serious, tactical play, they're designed to be funny disguises that survivors can use to goof off- the cost of that is a very slight advantage they can gain some of the time, and that is more than worth it for the limited amount of time they're in the game.
Now, it's more of a problem that specific killers like Twins and Ghostface don't get to use their powers, that's a thing I'd like to see corrected if they pull this out for next year, but if you're not playing those two (and debateably kind of Legion? A little bit?) then everything else still stands.
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Entity Displeased is based on your emblem score, not your bloodpoints. I often get Entity Displeased when I'm doing Evil Incarnate Myers, because he gets basically no emblem score- no chasing, no hitting, no hooking, just staring at someone and then eventually stabbing them to death.
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I cannot believe this clip is being trotted out again.
The man was just right, this clip isn't the slam dunk anyone thinks it is, not even for a sarcastic joke like this.
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@NatzAshe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2693949#Comment_2693949
I've shown just a sing example of usage, and that wasn't all. I don't record my games, so it just is that I don't possess more of vids to show.
However, I can assure you that the video ISN'T the sole purpose of it.
You forgot, or are ignoring, that I said it can be used after vaults. I also showed you that it can be used as makeshift loops, or protection, to waste killer time which is 4x more valuable than the survivors. Also, if there is a snowman in otherwise dead end, which occurs after the introduction of breakable walls, it also can be a ticket out of that dead end.
Taking only one of the points I said, and responding in sarcasm that I've displayed only one point, seems like a douche move to make to me.
I've already covered being used after vaults, I pointed out that there needs to be a snowman near a vault and that the value it gives that survivor is slightly less than just vaulting back would. It also requires that the killer can't circumvent the snowman, which a fair few can.
I don't see how it could be a ticket out of a dead end, unless the survivor was already close enough to a good loop that all they needed was the amount of time it takes for a weapon wipe animation- less if the killer hits the snowman from the front, since that makes survivors run into them.
I'm not ignoring anything here, friend- you're ignoring the reality of how little distance you get out of snowmen, which is what prevents them from actually helping at loops, in chase, even in deadzones. You can get miniscule value out of them in hyper specific scenarios, or against two of the killer roster, but to make out like they're anything other than a fun novelty with extremely limited application is simply wrong.
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@dugman said:
As a killer-only player I’d love to see Insidious get a revamp simply because outside of the very specific facecamping Bubba thing it’s pretty useless. I’d rather have a stealth perk that feels more useful on its own in a broader set of circumstances than one that is only used for facecamping.
That's where I'm at too- it's only useful in a highly specific circumstance that itself is a pretty bad tactical choice, so I'd like to see it revamped to do something more universally applicable, even if it's still weak afterwards.
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@OverratedFool said:
So now my original comment is back, but the following 3 or 4 comments in the thread have disappeared?
I'm new to these forums. Is this normal? Is it me? Am I going mad?
The individual we were arguing with has been banned, and I think our comments might've been a touch too aggressive in response, or otherwise just deleted because the thing we were responding too was also deleted.
Happens sometimes.
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@NatzAshe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2693931#Comment_2693931
The point is, that the killer had to swing, and the survivor got a free swing off. If the downed place was further apart, it would've resulted in a drop.
Okay? Fine? That's such a niche use that requires really precise timing to work that I honestly don't mind that extremely minor advantage being in the game so we can have the fun goofy snowman shenanigans most people are using them for.
Like, sure, survivors can use snowmen to take a protection hit that would've otherwise downed them to save a carried teammate, IF there's a snowman placed just right that they have time to crawl over there before the killer can either freely hit them or just move to a different hook. You've convinced me, how OP!
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...Is this... a joke?
I don't speak the same language as this streamer so I'm not sure what they're saying, but why did they stop? That hook was so close they genuinely could've hit the snowman and ALSO hit the Cheryl if they chose to keep bodyblocking without the Steve wiggling free, and they also just stood there after dropping Steve for some reason?
To top it all off, the clip ends with the Cheryl escaping and the Steve getting hooked, which is exactly what would've happened if the snowmen weren't in the trial?
I honestly thought the Cheryl was going to hop out and get a pallet save, which would've technically been some minor value from snowmen, but even that could've been played around by just not picking up the Steve so it wouldn't have been a strong point anyway.
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@NatzAshe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2693867#Comment_2693867
And I'm just saying that that "if" occurs more often than you would expect.
I'm sure you'll forgive me for not believing that right off the bat. I've been playing through this whole event, and I think a survivor got any value at all out of a snowman all of once- and even then, they got downed about five seconds afterwards since the snowmen are actually pretty garbage as tactical objects.
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Oh, I see, you're being snarky. Got it.
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@Leatherface1990 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2693871#Comment_2693871
Play the games. They're all pointless. Yikes.
I actually have played Fortnite, that's why I really want to know what your comparison is because I genuinely don't see any, not even comparing the two games' flaws.
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@Leatherface1990 said:
It's basically turned into a Fortnite/Roblox to me. I quit.
I desperately need to know what possible comparison you're drawing between this game and Fortnite, and I'm not even being snarky, I really want to know what you're getting at there.
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@NatzAshe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2693834#Comment_2693834
As I said, they are not useful as "Oh no, the killer's swinging, I should get in", but useful pre-planned, such as after a vault. You probably would get some time back, such as going back over the previous vault position. Even if the situation doesn't get better, at least the situation stays the same, provided that the snowman survivor planned ahead instead of deciding to enter the snowman at the last second, so other survivors would get free time.
That is predicated on a HUGE "if", that being, if there's a snowman positioned to a place they can do that. I don't think I've ever seen that actually happen, and even if it did, that's at best an extra vault on one window, which isn't that huge.
It's also predicated on the "if" of the killer not playing someone that just shuts down snowmen, too.
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@AnneBonny said:
ignoring the fact this is a blatant troll post, what the hell does ganking mean? literally never seen that word in my life
I've seen it used in the context of League of Legends, in that game it's when someone comes from a separate lane into yours to help deal with an enemy. So I guess the context it's being used for here is hook save interruptions? Maybe?
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No. Multiple game modes isn't a necessity, and more effort should be put into balancing the current mode instead of making new ones.
What I would support to hit at a similar feeling, though, is better control over what you can customise for custom games, and AI survivors/killers to populate those custom games with.
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I think it should retain its Undetectable, but I don't think its current effect is really even all that useful for camping outside of the basement, so it should definitely be changed.
Maybe it could grant Undetectable when you've spent a certain amount of time without any survivors who are looking at you or who are within a certain radius of you? Equal parts stealth perk and information perk, since if it's not triggering you know there's someone nearby. This effect would obviously cancel after you initiate a chase, or something similar.
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The layout is great, it'd be one of my favourite maps if it weren't for how many unbelievably safe pallets there are on the bottom floor. Ever since they reworked it, while it is still a painful map, I don't hate it anywhere near as much since I can at least actually see and figure out where I'm going on it.
Reduce the pallet count and it'd be a genuinely good map.
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The Third Seal is a pretty weak perk, but I don't think it needs more buffs, per se- if you want it to be useful outside of niche gimmick builds, it'd need a full rework, not buffs.
For what it's designed to do, it's in a perfectly decent state. It's just that its core design isn't very strong.
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It's not really that useful as armour. There's a reason that survivors who don't want to mess around are, at least in my experience, simply ignoring the snowmen- they can be hit during the enter animation, they don't get any distance beyond what they can get from a wipe animation, multiple killer powers hard shut down the snowmen, and they can't do anything while they're inside the snowman so their timing (and luck on snowman placement) would have to be absolutely perfect to get the miniscule value they can actually get.
The only serious advantage survivors can get if their timing is good would be to counter very specific killers- mostly just Twins and Ghostface, and kinda Legion but not really.
People keep making the snowmen out to be unbalanced and a "free hit" or "third health state" for the survivors, when that just doesn't bear out in reality.
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@dugman said:
I’ve made a similar suggestion too. Have Monstrous Shrine read something like
- All basement hooks act as additional Scourge Hooks for related perks
- You can always see the basement hook auras
- (Plus some other boost regarding the basement hooks, such as survivors rescued and/or rescuing someone from a basement hook suffer a condition, or it takes a bit longer to rescue a survivor from a basement hook, etc.)
That last benefit I’ve seen multiple suggestions, the main thing is just that it be better than the useless current “harder to pull yourself off a basement hook” effect. That way the perk can be useful on its own, and also synergizes with the Scourge Hook perks for some interesting possible combos.
Yeah, I'm also leaning towards just straight up changing the effect as well. I like the idea of it taking longer to rescue a survivor from a basement hook, or maybe having the rescuer get affected with something...
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@RainehDaze said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692527#Comment_2692527
Point one: if each survivor theoretically has time to look for one totem, that's still 4/5 totems on the map. After they got made more obvious again. And some just spawn in your face. So...
I do generally agree that a team who isn't on the back foot generally has time to go look for all the totems, but generally speaking they don't have any actual need to- and the point I was making is that boons have nothing to do with it, because not everyone on a team runs them and only one totem really needs to be found.
Tracking totems isn't hard but in fairness survivors don't really need to- and old Undying isn't busted because it makes survivors hunt for each totem, they can do that, it's busted because it keeps a really strong hex effect in the trial for a much longer time, and that's pretty damn punishing.
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Were you still in the animation of climbing into the snowman? During that animation, you can still be damaged.
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@BubbaDredge said:
It's skill-based in name only, the old emblem system was imperfect, but it looked at overall ability. This one just considers an escape or kill.
A survivor that gets out with no points is better than one that maxes out half his emblems but dies. The survivor that kept the killer busy so the game could be won, not as good as the guy that just moved to lose his crows, but escaped. The survivor that safe unhooked, took aggro, did gens, kept his team alive but died on his third hook, not as good as the guy who's SWF carried him the entire game. If you have friends that are really good, you can be one of the best survivors just by following them. Sucks to be you guys that play so well but die because you keep trying to save people and accomplish goals.
A killer that kills by always tunneling is better than a killer that goes for the 12 hook, earns 3 Iridescents but the survivors get out right before last hook. I have lots of games where I outscore escaping survivors, but they're still better because when they teabagged too far from the exit, their team was able to block me from the pickup. If one of his team dies doing this, that means he's inferior to the one that screwed up.
When the killer gives hatch, that means that last survivor was the best player in the match, regardless of his ability or plays. I like giving hatch to be merciful, I'm willing to let the receiver get BP that are rightfully mine, but now I'm also telling the MMR "This guy is the best player in the trial." That's a mixed blessing and inaccurate.
I don't think I've ever given hatch to the best player in the trial, when I give hatch, I'M the best player in the trial. That's kinda why I do it, to give a little "keep your chin up" to the other side because they shouldn't have been matched with me.
It's just so backwards. The game was better without the win system being as simple as possible. This encourages behavior that makes the game less fun for both sides. The emblem system isn't perfect, but it better reflects what makes DBD fun. It encourages you to play rather than just specialize in killing/escaping.
No one likes this.
Slight correction- hatch doesn't count for MMR at all, it doesn't count as a win or a loss for either side.
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This is a strange comment on all three points being made here. So, let's go point by point! I've got nothing else to do while up with insomnia, anyway. So...
Point one: Proving that survivors have time to look for totems. This isn't strictly accurate- they have time to look for one totem, that they typically return to. Hunting down all five isn't quite as monumental a task as some make it out to be with the proper tools, but survivors still don't have to do that in order to make use of their boons, so the point doesn't stand.
Point two: Old Undying. The equivalence you're drawing here is a false one- boons are (ostensibly) balanced around being semi-permanent but interruptible, and hexes are not. That's why current Undying is still very strong, and old Undying was broken. With the exception of Circle Of Healing, which is busted, the current boon totem perks are pretty balanced when it comes to being infinitely available with a time investment- the same could not be said for all hexes, and in order to make that true, you'd have to nerf some.
Point three: "Until you nerf boons". Balance changes shouldn't be made just to cover separate balance issues, and old Undying wouldn't even cover this issue anyway. Besides, boons don't really need a nerf (unless you consider QoL things like louder audio radius for killers a nerf, in which case sure), but Circle of Healing does.
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Bloodwebs, bloodpoints, and The Grind in general should be overhauled for both sides, and making the grind easier would only be a bandaid for the actual problem you're discussing here.
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Seconding the above- Bubba's addons aren't very exciting, but they're very dependable. My personal loadout tends to include either a Chili or one of the cooldown/recharge addons, and one of the status-inflicting ones like Broken, Mangled, or the item-drop one, depending on what kind of items I see brought it.
But really, double Chili is insanely good, so if you just want the most value without being fancy, that's where you look.
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The Big Daddy from Bioshock, or something based on a similar theme with the diving suit, would be pretty aces- though I do worry it'd basically just be a chainsaw clone.
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@Leon_S_Kennedy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692286#Comment_2692286
Okay now I forgive you but how would it be split up
Not entirely sure, maybe by floor? They may have to add a little bit to each section, but it has to be shrunk somehow and splitting it up seems like the best call.
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@Leon_S_Kennedy said:
Judging from the name I think it is kinda obvious
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692283#Comment_2692283
People hate on it because it's far too big, it's far too cramped, generators are impossible to defend and hard to find on the survivor side, you can know precisely where you need to go but have a hard time figuring out how to get there + it taking forever even when you do know how, most of the pallets are completely un-mindgameable...
It's not a good map, pretty categorically. If they split it up into three maps comprising different parts of it, then it'd actually be quite good, but right now it's a nightmare.
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@Leon_S_Kennedy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2691997#Comment_2691997
I don't get why people see hating on my station
...RPD or Backwater Swamp? I'm assuming the former?
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Hexes and boons are not the same mechanic, they shouldn't and don't have identical functions.
Totem spawns are a problem right now, but the solution is to fix them (as well as to nerf CoH), not to fundamentally change the way hexes function.
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@steamed_hamzzz said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2692262#Comment_2692262
If a survivor knows they’re exposed then they’ll simply hop into a snowman forcing the killer to hit them and go on cool down while they make more distance to a pallet or window
Right, but they can only do that when and while there's a snowman near them, so the next hit is still going to down them.
Assuming there's even a snowman nearby to begin with, too.
Also, since the animation for getting in a snowman is relatively slow, if there's a pallet or window near enough to get to during the killer's wipe animation, they almost certainly could've gotten there without the snowman anyway.
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Not sure I understand this argument. Even if the snowmen were an extra health state, surely the point of running Exposed perks is to make sure that the first hit which actually connects gets the down?
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I don't think full regression is a good idea, but I think having it regress back to needing to take a full second or so would be a reasonable change.
Though, at the same time, I don't really think the exit gates being 99'd is the biggest problem right now.
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@Seiko300 said:
When people talk about Boon: totems, I've realized more often than not they're really only addressing Circle of Healing specifically, rather than the actual strength of Boon totems as a whole. Circle of Healing is undoubtedly the strongest and the least balanced, but the other boons that exist so far like Shadow Step or Exponential are reasonably balanced out between the effects they provide and the time investment required to set them up beforehand.
As far as the idea of snuffing out boon totems permanently goes, there are FAR many more interesting ways to balance out both Circle of Healing, and Boon totems as a whole, rather than treating them exactly like their Hex: Counterparts. Because they aren't at all like they're hex: counterparts and a few distinct differences separate their balancing philosophy- it's exactly like comparing Hillbilly to Leatherface "because they both have chainsaws!" and stubbornly INSISTING this superficial similarity means they should be treated as identical when they're clearly not.
Here are a list of interesting changes that could apply to either boons as a whole, or to circle of healing specifically.
Range reduction.
- The most obvious and straightforward solution, a large part of the issue regarding boon totems (but specifically and especially Circle of Healing) is that their effects cover far too sizable an area of the map, especially when multiple survivors are running Boon totems you can essentially blanket nearly every active zone of the map. A capability which directly contrasts the original "small safe haven" idea that boons were originally created around. This has less to do with the issue of covering vertical space as well, which is more of a strategic quirk, and more to do with the sheer radius that Boons remain active in. Reducing their range from 24m to 16m (perhaps even 12 meters if the devs are feeling bold) and would go a long way in solving these issues.
- This may be relative to individual perks. Perks like Circle of Healing are far too strong with such increased range, but perks like Shadow Step or Boon: Exponential rely almost exclusively on greater ranges to be of any use.
Totem/Perk Cooldown.
- Because Boon totems are limited by their range and setup time, they are granted the exchange of replenish-ability- this is a core component of their balance. That being boons can be reset an infinite number of times, but always at the expense of time which could have been spent accomplishing objectives like generators or saving hooked teammates. However managing expenditures in time is made easier when a single survivor can immediately re-bless a dull totem after it has been snuffed out by a killer. This is especially difficult for a killer who may need to take balance the time of cleansing multiple Boon Totems placed by multiple survivors. Providing a cooldown to boon totems will limit their active use during a match, and can be done by either a traditional cooldown system placed on the perk itself which sets it on cooldown after the associated blessed totem has been cleansed (IE 90 second cooldown). Or instead, by preventing a specific totem that has recently been blessed from being blessed again for a slightly shorter duration- that affects all survivors in the trial (IE 60 second cooldown). For example if one survivor had their totem cleansed, that same survivor or any other survivor would not be able to bless that exact same totem again themselves.
More distinct audio cue.
- Boon totems were originally created around the idea of providing a temporary breathing space for survivors- as opposed to a Hex's constant map-wide pressure. To facilitate this, "soft chimes" were added to not only allow killers awareness of a Boon being active, but the general space in which they were active as well. However, due to the complexity of certain maps, as well as vertical space also being a factor- the soft chimes that exist are often not distinct enough for a killer to be able to quickly and efficiently be able to pinpoint exactly where they are, forcing a killer to waste precious seconds to find it. Increasing the volume, predominance, and clarity of direction, of the chimes amongst the other sounds in Dead by Daylight would give killers a subtle edge and an easier time finding boons and snuffing them out.
- Separately, this may however have to do with audio occlusion bugs & issues which DBD has historically suffered from many times in the past, and less any deliberate confusing audio shenanigans on the part of the developers themselves.
Aura reveal.
- To supplement this idea of temporary safe havens, and to more easily deal with instances of "permanent boons" (where a boon is set up in an inactive area of the map without generators that a killer could / would not go searching through without sacrificing time or pressure) there is also the idea of revealing boon totems auras. After a certain amount of time has expired (90 seconds, 120 seconds, etc.) a Boon that has been attached to a totem for that duration of time will periodically have its aura revealed to the killer. This will provide killers with pinpoint accurate visual information as to the areas survivors continue to return to throughout the match and thus erasing the killers pressure. Thus giving killers the option to move directly to the totem as quickly and efficiently as possible to snuff it out.
Distance extinguish.
- In addition to the previous idea, it may be of interest to explore the option of being able to snuff out blessed totems from a distance. This would allow killers to not waste as much time crossing great sections of the map, and stay in active zones to apply pressure while also removing a safe haven area. This would likely operate on the same duration condition as the former proposal- after a certain amount of time has expired- a killer will be able to cleanse a blessed totem from further and further ranges. After 60 seconds -16m after 80 seconds - 24m, after 110 seconds - 32m, and so on and so forth. Number values are of course subject to change.
Healing speed reduction / removal.
- This is a Circle of Healing specific idea, and it's not a novel one- the strength of providing infinite self heals is strong enough without making those heals faster. Reducing the healing speed bonus from 100% down to 75%, 50%, or perhaps even removing it entirely would go a long way in taming the strength of Circle of Healing. Only allowing survivors to heal themselves in a regular time of 16 seconds and reduce the time efficiency of healing that circle of healing so easily provides.
- Reducing the heal speed of healing others may be subject to separate balancing (IE: Remove self heal speed bonus, but keep healing others at increase of 50% or 20%).
Increased time to bless totems.
- It is what it is. Little explanation necessary here, for a change that is relatively boring- just increase the amount of time it takes to bless a totem by a few seconds. Making blessing a totem a greater commitment for each individual survivor.
- A more interesting and thoughtful way to implement this change may be to increase the amount of time it takes to bless a totem every time the action is repeated. Say when you Bless a totem you gain a token, with each token the amount of time it takes to bless another totem is increased by 2 seconds, up to a maximum of X tokens. Values subject to change.
The idea for balancing boon totems to keep them in line is not to eliminate them completely from a match, but to allow killers more frequent and easier opportunities to cleanse blessed totems such that Boons have a greater amount of counterplay available to knowledgable killers who can adapt to them.
Thoughtful and reasonable suggestions, it's nice to see some nuance and thought put into this topic!
I do think that at minimum, the audio cue for killers should be louder at longer ranges, so they can be more easily understood to be in the general area straight away. Additionally, I think totem spawn points should be revisited, as totems up on catwalks and such may be a little too much investment to ask of a killer- but in general I think totem spawn points need an overhaul, so that's not boon-specific.
- The most obvious and straightforward solution, a large part of the issue regarding boon totems (but specifically and especially Circle of Healing) is that their effects cover far too sizable an area of the map, especially when multiple survivors are running Boon totems you can essentially blanket nearly every active zone of the map. A capability which directly contrasts the original "small safe haven" idea that boons were originally created around. This has less to do with the issue of covering vertical space as well, which is more of a strategic quirk, and more to do with the sheer radius that Boons remain active in. Reducing their range from 24m to 16m (perhaps even 12 meters if the devs are feeling bold) and would go a long way in solving these issues.
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I'm not sure I agree, honestly. There are a fair number of pallets on the outside, but none of them seem to be particularly godly, most of them seem like ones you can mindgame. It's big, but the spread of important objects (mostly generators) isn't too bad, and there thankfully aren't any generators higher up, which is a bonus. If you ignore the generator by shack, the rest are pretty easily patrollable.
It's not killer sided either, and a few killers (mostly Trapper) do pretty poorly on there, but it's not that bad.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2691952#Comment_2691952
Well see the thing about it is that it's not a subjective opinion that the snowmen can easily be utilized as a third health state without the burst run effect. That's actually true. And I don't mean to make assumptions, but it doesn't sound like you or many others here can understand what the problem really is with this event from the perspective of a content creator specializing in 'killer' material. I won't get to make any non-meme Ghostface content for two weeks and it isn't even going to be for a good reason...
You're right- it's not a subjective opinion that snowmen can easily be utilised as a third health state, it's just wrong. What's more arguably true is that they function as a free protection hit, but then we get back into the fact that survivors don't actually get all that much out of them beyond however much distance they can make in a little less than the killer's wipe animation, so it's hardly cause for concern.
As for your second point, I empathise. I imagine content creators specialising in the killers who struggle here are going to have a bad time if they don't want to embrace being goofy for the holidays, but at the same time, that's such a niche group of people that I really don't think it's fair to declare the whole event flawed because of it.
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The obvious call is RPD, but I honestly think that's a given, it's bad for everyone.
My actual pick is Backwater Swamp. It's far too dark, both maps are quite big, the pier structures are a nightmare, but at the same time it doesn't have all that many proper pallet loops to mindgame around. I'd be happy if they just brightened it up a bit, or otherwise raised visual contrast between the ground and anything else, but I want a proper overhaul for it.
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@Beaburd said:
I find it kinda funny that naming and shaming is against the rules in this forum to avoid bullying.
But jailing, which openly displays a user as being punished and implies they have engaged in shameful actions, is completely fine.
Eh, there's a difference between seeing someone who has engaged in shameful actions on this forum and a bunch of people going after someone who isn't on this forum based on things they did elsewhere.
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My only hope for any reworked maps is that they give maps like Swamp and Midwich a little more contrast between props and the ground, because right now it's so hard to see about anything on those maps.
Well... I also hope some maps are shrunk, as well, but if I had to pick I'd go for the first thing.
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I think the binary choice between "competitive" and "party" game don't really bear out in reality, there's elements of both. What I'd say this game should be defined as is a horror-themed cat and mouse game with light hide and seek elements, since that is how it plays.
Any game can be played at a tournament regardless of balance, so any game can be competitive, so maybe the definition of "competitive" should be more restricted to esports? In that case, DBD is certainly more of a casual game, but that could change at any moment.
Personally, I treat it somewhere in the middle ground. I'm not actively goofing off every game... but this isn't a tournament and I'm not playing in some ranked competitive mode, so I'm not trying my hardest all the time.
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@Anti051 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2691918#Comment_2691918
Alright, so go play Ghostface against this winter charade stuff for awhile, come back and say the same thing without wincing.
As mentioned above, the problem that does exist with this event is a handful of unfair power interactions, like Twins and Ghostface. Not because snowmen are a "third health state" or help even slightly in chase, which is what I'm contesting.
There's also a difference between needing to pick a specific killer to counter something, and needing to not pick a specific killer because they don't fare well.
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@PlayTwink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2691903#Comment_2691903
You know how long the succesful cooldown attack is for Oni's during demon dash? It's better to use M1 instead. Wraith is the same pointless, since all his attacks are M1. Hag strategy will also not work since survivors aren't that stupid to run into the trap. Legion has a 4 seconds cooldown, similiar to Oni it's better to hit them with M1, which is useless. Deathslinger, Cenobite, Doctor and Bubba can eliminate snowmens ez, but still I shouldn't be forced to play other killers in order to counter something that is broken.
You shouldn't! Thankfully, the snowmen aren't broken, so you'd just be choosing a killer to play based on a temporary addition that annoys you.
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@PlayTwink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2691829#Comment_2691829
Survivors can still get a distance even if you throw at them a bottle as Clown. Oni, Hag, Wraith and Legion powers don't have anything that will help them to counter snowmans.
Save the best for last is useless, since the map is covered with insane strong loops.
I've been playing Clown the most during this event, trust me, if you throw gas down then hit them from the front of the snowman, it's really not that much. Remember that they can also still be hit while they're entering the snowman, which will damage them and remove the snowman, so if you're worried about the "insane strong loops" take solace in knowing the snowmen make no difference to whether someone can reach one in time.
Oni can Demon Dash to someone after they get smacked out of the snowman, Wraith can cloak and catch up quite fast (though admittedly the uncloaking time is a problem there), Hag usually wants to be within her perimeter no matter what so she'll have traps to herd them towards, Legion has Frenzy, though they do have to wait for it to recharge so it's less effective than the others. Not to mention the powers that eliminate the snowmen, like Deathslinger, Doctor, I think Artist, and Bubba.
The snowmen are not a balance problem because they help survivors too much in chase, they really don't. Their problems are to do with unfair power interactions like Twins.
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@PlayTwink said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2691466#Comment_2691466
And how do you counter them as the Pig, Wraith, Trapper, Clown, Legion, Ghost Face, Myers, Oni, Hag and Nightmare?
Clown, Oni, and to a lesser degree Hag, Wraith, and Legion have in-built abilities to catch back up on the meagre distance that survivors make, so they're already fine.
As for the others, hit them from the front of the snowman so they come out into you, and then just catch back up because they really don't make all that much distance unless they're lucky enough to get a snowman spawn by a strong loop- and even then, the animation to get into them takes long enough that they'd probably be able to reach that loop without the snowman.
If you really struggle against the snowmen, run Save The Best For Last so your wipe animation is shorter.
Regarding the OP, I don't think all of that is necessary- this event would've already been basically flawless if they'd sorted a few unpleasant killer power interactions and possibly reduced the weapon wipe cooldown for hitting a snowman, and if you want to improve it for next time, letting killers hop into snowmen too would be a good move.
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I would definitely support this change. Now that it's a generic perk especially, I'm of the opinion that the majority of the roster should be able to use it at least somewhat well.
Though it would raise the question- if Huntress downs someone who's half the map away, does the radius that Jolt activates from start with her, or with the downed survivor?