jesterkind
jesterkind
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I suggested an idea myself the other day- I think that keys should be reworked to lean more fully into being player-aura reading items, and shouldn't be used for the hatch at all. Rename them something else, give them a different look, and make them little magical objects survivors gain knowledge with.
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@ShinobuSK said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703397#Comment_2703397
I thought thats what VHS is
People keep saying that, and I'm really not sure why. Could you elaborate on what comparison is being drawn between those two games?
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Oooh, how edgy.
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@tesla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703117#Comment_2703117
multiple seconds = 14
certain radius = 24 meters (48 meters diameter) and multi floor
yeah, so many conditions
If you think those numbers aren't right, they can be changed.
But remember that we're using those numbers for Shadow Step and Exponential- it doesn't work out as powerful for those two as it does for CoH.
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@Barbarossa2020 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703151#Comment_2703151
If Boon's could be removed or have a lifespam, i.e being able to stomp the bones, it wouldn't matter as much if they covered 2 floors.
It would mean that using the boon/placement was meaningful.
And when you have 2 CoH's you wouldn't just getting bounced around trying to snuff 2.
Any change you want to make to boon totems as a base mechanic isn't just compared to CoH, it's compared to all three. Is that change necessary for Shadow Step or Exponential?
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@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703111#Comment_2703111
I say you can't chase anyone because RCPD is the most LOS-limited of the indoor maps. It's nearly impossible to chase without scratch marks because every doorway represents a coin flip on whether the survivor went straight or turned and there's doors all over the place. Healthy chases don't work. Blood helps, but the ground is quite dark and blotchy and it's not an easy map to see it on; the thing you've really got working for you are injured sounds, and Iron Will is a meta perk. While it'd help a lot in RCPD and Midwich, I don't think removing the verticality would really fix the problem of Shadow Step being useless on some maps and incredibly powerful on others. It's not even a Balanced Landing sort of deal where it's strong when accompanying a map offering but can be powered through; the value it gets in foiling chases is nuts when you have a map with loads of LoS breaks and bring Iron Will. It might be one floor, but Lery's is still mega rough without scratch marks.
The situations where unremovable Shadow Step is an issue are mostly synonymous with the situations where Shadow Step is useful, so it's a very tricky perk to balance. I disagree that it's less powerful than CoH in those situations, though. On Midwich or RCPD, I think it's stronger. You can tunnel out past CoH, but the only way to handle SS + IW is to keep snuffing. (The Game is also pretty bad, but I find it has greater LoS and blood is easier to track than Midwich or RCPD.)
Exponential needs a very specific setup to be a torment perk, but verticality will do little to it; it's entirely based on having a few zones where players can run to when they're going down, and teammates that harass the killer so that picking up in time isn't possible. Can work on any map except maybe ones with bad totem spread like Swamp. Dealing with it + CoH pretty much requires the SWF to either ######### up or run out of item charges.
Also, Twins. It's never going to be as good as CoH or Shadow Step, and I don't think it needs any adjustments that don't apply to boons as a whole, but there are situations where you'd want to get rid of totems for good.
I'm just not convinced that making them destructible would actually kill the boon mechanic. I rarely play matches where more than 5 lightings occur, and the most popular boon isn't particularly location-dependent anyway.
Boons in their current state don't have counterplay. The killer can snuff them if they happen to be right next to them and not in a chase. That's the only time-sensitive option available when snuffing the boon equates to a grand total of 14 seconds required to put it back up - or 3.5 seconds evenly divided amongst the survivor team. If the killer spends more than 3.5 seconds destroying it, they've lost time. I don't think that's a healthy model that killers essentially have to deal with the boon effect being there when the boon effect is so strong and gives the whole team extra perk slots, and so far have not seen a suggestion that keeps boons in their infinite state and also leaves them as perks worth running. (Range nerfs kill the non-CoH ones as well, so I'm not really convinced that's the way to go.)
I'm very wary to try and talk about something's balance when its primarily being applied to RPD- that map is a nightmare on every conceivable level and anything can seem really powerful on that map due to its myriad of gigantic balancing issues. Midwich is a better example, and is definitely a perk where Shadow Step is quite tricky to play around due to the ground being pretty dark, but even then- it's by no means as powerful as CoH.
Exponential just isn't good, I don't buy that even a coordinated team could make that perk any more useful than just being a sabo and bodyblock squad would do without it. I'm not sure what "harassing the killer" even means in this context, surely all they can do is try to bait you into not picking up or try and get lucky with a flashlight save? I'm open to hearing out how you think that'll play, but I'm sceptical.
Now, we're getting more into places where we can talk about the mechanic's balancing without simply tossing it out, and what I'd propose if this remains a problem after nerfing things like verticality and changing things like totem spawns would be a cooldown after the totem is snuffed. That way the killer's time investment works out a little better, and you still get the continual slowdown of survivors relighting their totems after you snuff them.
Again, that would have to come after the parts that are actually causing problems are addressed and monitored, and it comes with the understanding that CoH is its own problem that needs fixing much quicker and in more obvious ways.
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@tesla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703121#Comment_2703121
Oh please. The range of boons is just insane, and applies to multiple floors, and the effect is very strong. Being able to choose the totem is a massive advantage. Imagine if killers could just choose where their hexes would be positioned. In many matches, CoH will have much more impact than ruin, so I just don't know what you're talking about.
When did CoH come back into the equation? I specifically said Ruin was more powerful than the two perks we were discussing, which are Shadow Step and Exponential. Remember that "boon totem" is a perk type, and only one of them is actually OP.
Now, regarding the rest of your points, it seems insane to me that you're capable of acknowledging what the actual problems with boon totems as a mechanic are, but you still cling to a bad solution that won't fix those things. Maybe we should be looking at the range and verticality first, since those are the things actually causing problems?
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If they hop into a snowman and you shock that snowman, it breaks, but neither you nor the survivor get the cosmetic for it. That's what they mean, though they're of course overreacting.
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@tesla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703117#Comment_2703117
You mean like Ruin can just be removed from the trial? Who would ever bring that right?
Ah, of course. The perk that requires no setup, is mapwide, and has a much stronger effect than either of the perks I just described?
The one that isn't comparable in the least because literally nothing we're discussing actually applies to it?
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@tesla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703111#Comment_2703111
Because 5 uses is plenty of uses. Other perks like unbreakable are only one use and still very strong. Saying people won't use it anymore is just like people used to say no one would use DS anymore if nerfed. And yet, what a surprise, DS is still one of the most used perks every match.
Not quite. Unbreakable is one use and very strong, but the only requirement for using Unbreakable is that you be left on the ground, nothing more. The other boon perks (not CoH because the time investment absolutely works out in the survivor's favour by a staggering degree) require setup, and once again, they are designed to continually draw survivors away from their objective.
Why on earth would you bring a perk that gives you some moderately decent stealth, but that requires you to find a totem, spend multiple seconds blessing it, only works within a certain radius of that totem, and can be completely removed from the trial? Why would you ever bring the version of Unbreakable with all of those restrictions?
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@lauraa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703089#Comment_2703089
Yes, Shadowstep is just as powerful as CoH. Disabling certain totems would be a huge boon against Shadowsteppers since that one needs to be in a really good spot unlike CoH which can get by with a "just good enough " spot.
Exponential isnt even worth discussing though.
...It's really, really not. Shadow Step is strong, but not overpowered, since it's relatively easy to play around even if you're chasing someone in its radius. Circle of Healing, by contrast, completely removes whole playstyles and tactics, and is absurdly strong compared to any other healing perk in the game. CoH is way stronger than Shadow Step.
@Laluzi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703089#Comment_2703089
Usually no, but it can be. There are some spots where it's busted to have a totem and you have to get rid of it, but that isn't possible with the current state of boons and the killer's just kind of boned.
Imagine playing against a team with 3-4 Shadow Steps and an RPD offering. You really just need a totem in the library and one in that room below the fancy office and the survivors are completely set - no scratch marks on most of the map. You can't chase anyone without snuffing the totem, but when you snuff it, somebody's put it back up by the time you find someone else to try and chase.
Same with Exponential and a SWF who has a few of them dotting the map and full flashlight/sabo builds. Impossible to pick up within 8 seconds, impossible to slug. Add in CoH for speed heals and destroying the totems is the only way to progress, but you can't actually do that, just stall them for a bit - and for way less time than it stalled you.
So yeah, I'm pretty desperate for destroyable boons (optionally snuffable if the killer wishes to preserve the totem.) Five uses is plenty good enough for a typical match, and hopefully it'll encourage people to place boons smarter instead of spamming them everywhere.
So, you do raise a point where there are niche scenarios that make Shadow Step more of a pain- still nowhere near as powerful as CoH, of course, I'm not sure why "you can't chase anyone" while Shadow Step is up, but it is a lot more annoying and a lot more powerful than that perk is elsewhere. The problem here is twofold, though- it once again bumps up against hard nuking the entire concept just because of outliers (CoH being the strength outlier, RPD being the outlier for making Exponential usable and Shadow Step more annoying), and it's also not actually the solution to that problem.
Instead of effectively completely removing boon totems from use by making them incredibly limited, why not look into whether or not the effect should get to permeate through floors? That'll handle the outlier situation that you're describing here without making Shadow Step and Exponential quite literally useless on any other map in any other scenario.
Breaking boon totems is not only not the only solution, it's not a solution, it's only a brief step above saying "just delete them from the game". There are actual solutions to these problems, like reworking totem spawns, making boons travel far less vertically, and nerfing the absolute ######### out of Circle of Healing, so why not push for that?
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@tesla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703089#Comment_2703089
Just like lauraa said, it could be an option for the killer. Hold the button longer to crush it completely. Depending on the strategy/killer/match situation one could be preferable than other.
Which would be a problem for the exact same reasons. Again, Shadow Step and Exponential don't require a change this drastic, so why push for it? Just nerf Circle of Healing, you don't need to start fundamentally nuking the core concept of boon totems.
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@IlliterateGenocide said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2703089#Comment_2703089
its only circle of healng that is a problem. if shadow step and expo where able to be destroyed they just become another set of perks not worth running
My point exactly.
So, surely nerfing that perk is a better solution than nuking the other two into oblivion with a mechanic-wide giant nerf?
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It wouldn't be a good change, because it doesn't understand and reconcile what boon totems are actually designed for. The point of snuffing a totem isn't to provide a huge downside, it's to pull a survivor away from their objective to relight it, and the more times they do that the better it works out for you- if they could only do it five times max (less for any given survivor if they're all running totems) then you won't get any real slowdown out of the situation, and survivors would be much less incentivised to actually run boon totems at all.
Also, think about it this way: Is this really a problem for Shadow Step and Exponential? Or is it just Circle of Healing that feels too powerful to be limitlessly available?
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I hope so. It's possible they have something larger planned that won't hit until the next full patch, but I certainly hope that we see a quicker change than that.
It's one of the few situations where I do actually support a quick band-aid fix while they look at wider issues, because it really is broken.
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Yep! It's true, it's a fun comparison.
Now that DBD is on EGS, I quite badly want a crossover. PLEASE let me give Trapper a gun and put him in a new killing game, he's already gone somewhere else once, he can do it again.
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@PigMainBigBrain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702521#Comment_2702521
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvRMd7aQ5v4
Bruh....if you're gonna answer community questions to the tune of thousands of players, the last thing you ever wanna do is tell people to go play something else. Everybody eyerolled his response even Not_Queen. An editor off cam was even cringing like "Nah fam....this ain't the play chief".
The answer to that question wasn't supposed to be "GTFO"
It was supposed to be (if they cared) "We're looking into balance" <---at the very least.
The reason why he got memed out of the water is because his response to player frustration with the game was just to make a joke of it. Kinda like how they've handled things thus far. AKA Dismissing player concerns. Doesn't matter how the person who played it phrased their view or experience, you don't just tell the customer to go to Best Buy unless you wanna end up non existant like Radio Shack.
Terrible customer service will have you lose money before you even open your mouth to make a sale. Good customer service will make someone buy what they came for and something extra for a friend especially if you help someone solve a problem, they'll stick with you for life after that. If bad customer experiences are met by jokes, BHVR is going to get meme'd on with that same energy....period. Now if BHVR were doing GODS WORK, fixing every bug, going above and beyond, best customer service, most based ideas for fixes, always on point, always great balance, etc etc, they wouldn't get negatively meme'd on instead they'd end up like Gabe Newell as some kind of Lord and Savior of video games across the universe... PRAISE GABEN!
But some people are allergic to success so ya know....whatever....
Yes, like I said, from a business perspective it wasn't a particularly great move, hence the incredulity from everyone else.
In terms of answering the question, though, I've already outlined why he was just correct.
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@TAG said:
That feels like a band-aid solution. If choosing maps is a problem when there are busted maps to choose, then what should be done is that busted maps should be fixed.
I'm not sure I agree with that- in theory, it's not a bad thing for certain killers to perform better on certain maps than others, and it's equally not a problem for them to have unfavoured maps, either. The standard should be brought up so some killers aren't screwed over quite as much by the map as they are now, but in general, the idea of wanting to avoid certain maps because they put you at a slight disadvantage isn't fundamentally broken design.
Both approaches at once is what I'd suggest.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702509#Comment_2702509
It didn't answer the question(if I am remembering correctly) of:
"How are you going to improve killer gameplay to make it less stressful/frustrating"
Which the response completely ignored.
People saying dumb things then getting talked down to for saying dumb things isn't unusual but I never said harassment was ok, just that he did provoke people.
That wasn't the question, and it's very important to understand the difference between that statement and the question actually aired. See, the one in that clip actually had a really long preamble about how the question asker was feeling burnt out, didn't feel as though killer was feared anymore, perceived it to be frustratingly unbalanced, and then asked effectively "what are you going to do to fix that for me".
The answer in that situation is that the question asker needed to take a break. Period. The answer "Take a break, play some survivor for a bit or heck, play something else" was a straightforwardly correct one, there is nothing wrong with it from any perspective other than a cynical business angle (where, to be fair, it's not a good business move to tell people to play something other than your game, no matter how correct you would be to say it).
Now, if the original question hadn't been so loaded, whiny, and frustrated, I'd have supported tacking on something about future plans to the end of that correct answer, but given what the question actually was, you don't want to encourage and support that approach, so probably for the best on that front.
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The past few DLCs have been pretty good for the killer meta imo- Lethal Pursuer from the Resident Evil chapter is a very solid option that helps out a wide number of killers, Deadlock from the Hellraiser DLC is fast becoming a fully meta perk, and Pain Resonance is a really solid perk that I wouldn't be surprised to learn is becoming meta too.
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@Warcrafter4 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2701910#Comment_2701910
To be fair about Cote:
He kinda brought it upon himself with condescending comments that ignored the question the community asked.
Hence the "Go play Civ" quote gets memed on to death because it was both of the above.
You mean the clip where he gives the correct answer to the question that was posed to him? Weird example to use if you're trying to make out like someone deserves the verbal abuse they're getting online, friend.
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@Marigoria said:
I can see this being useful for killers who are map dependent. The issue with that is imagine you're playing Billy and you're trying to avoid an indoor map, you can use an offering to not go to lerys sure, but then you get sent to the game, or rpd.
It still lowers the net chance of going to A Bad Map for you, though. Instead of three options the game could randomly pull, there's only two, in this example.
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I would actually be on board for this- I would use the hell out of a simple "send me anywhere Except Here" offering, and it seems fair that it'd be overruled by the map's associated regular offering.
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I like it, honestly. I'd rather see them move forward with a way of making items more obvious, instead of simply reverting it.
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Ehhh, they didn't buff Iron Will so much as nerf something else that had an impact on it, and even that only applied to one killer who was the main target.
That's still only two, though. Hell, they nerfed a few survivor meta perks too- DS and OoO got hit with the nerf bat within a reasonably close proximity to that timeframe.
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How do you mean buffed all the survivor meta perks? The last time they buffed a survivor meta perk to my knowledge was when they made Borrowed Time more consistent, and that was a while ago now.
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My understanding, based on the language in the official reveal, is that they're going for the original story the movie is based on- so maybe they'll be doing their own design, not one of the two movie designs? Just a possibility, not a guarantee.
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I find it interesting how many people say they never see Trickster- whenever I do play survivor, for dailies or archive challenges, it feels like Trickster is a solid half of the killers that I face.
Must be that he's more popular at lower MMR...
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@AstroLive8333 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702329#Comment_2702329
If i open the hatch midgame with a key, I automatically jump in?
You can't open the hatch midgame. It only spawns, already opened, when there's one survivor left in the match.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702268#Comment_2702268
Fair enough, but you did admit there is a problem that needs to be fixed, that is all I wanted to hear.
We can find common ground in that Ghost Face and Twins should have their power interactions with the snowmen fixed, either in time for this event or in time for next year's event if they do this event again.
Nothing else, of course, the snowmen are a charming and harmless inclusion otherwise, but those two are suffering unnecessarily.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702238#Comment_2702238
Nah, not really. Both are unfair situations, one is just made up and another one is real.
In your hypothetical, there is a gigantic, huge unfair advantage to one side, to an extremely game-changing degree. In our event, two specific killers get screwed and the rest are absolutely fine.
It's still a problem that should be fixed, but the thing that's actually getting annoying is the amount of people pretending that survivors get some stark and measurable advantage out of hopping into a snowman when that's clearly not the case.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702217#Comment_2702217
This "Don't take it seriously" argument is getting really old.
Imagine if Battlefield or Call of duty made a Christmas event where a single class/loadout could one-shot people just because the bullets are made of tiny Snowmen... You know, because it's all hilarious and fun and should not be taken seriously.
I assume you do see the giant, stark difference between this event and the hypothetical you just posed, right?
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702175#Comment_2702175
The one that increases the divide in the community and fuels the theory that the devs are biased towards one side or that they do things out of greed to keep one side happy.
I can tell you how to tie your shoes and you are free to ignore the obvious. You still got told how to do it though.
So... which one? I'd argue they shouldn't have done it with zero warning the first time, and to be consistent with that belief, I think it's fine that they gave warning this time around. It's all well and good to say they shouldn't "increase the divide in the community", but logically, that would mean that they should do something wrong twice so one side doesn't feel unfairly maligned. It's actively arguing against them learning and growing, which I don't support.
Cool example, now let's add in the fifteen thousand other people giving conflicting methods on how to tie your shoes, a solid two thirds of which are asinine and stupid, and we're in a more comparable position to this situation.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702152#Comment_2702152
The reason they didn't tell killers is because they viewed Mori's as "toxic" They even called mori's toxic in one of their streams. They gave survivors warning because they wanted to give them warning. I guess 3 man keying out after going afk on the hatch until the killer found your group was funny to them.
I guess you could say it was suggested to change ds but now we are arguing semantics.
It doesn't matter what phrasing you use, it's not semantics. They are not beholden to do anything said, suggested, aired, or ranted about by random internet users, that ain't how game dev or even community feedback works.
I'm not sure what your point is, would you mind elaborating? They didn't tell killers and they did tell survivors- which one of those is the problem?
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Presumably, they were thinking that people would approach the goofy snowman disguise with the goal to have fun with it, instead of creating scenarios that justify getting mad at them.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2702125#Comment_2702125
They did.. after how many changes while being told to do this for ages?
KEYS! They made killers wait a year for them to make a change that people were saying from day one of the mori nerf and on top of that gave survivors ample warning to use their keys up while killers got practically no warning.
"Told to" is weird phrasing when they're not beholden to do what any given internet user wants them to, but I did already say that the time it took is a fair criticism.
Regarding keys, I've never really understood this argument. They didn't give killer players warning before nerfing moris, alright, I'm on board for that being a bad thing, but then they... didn't repeat that mistake, and that's reason to be annoyed at them too?
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@Zozzy said:
Love how everyone is blaming the community's toxicity when the developers have created the toxicity.
Glacial update speeds combined with a 1 step forward 2 steps back approach to balance would make anyone angry.
Look at Decisive strike. 3 years of complaining just to get a side grade while still being meta and in return we get hit validation and boons.
The time I'll give you, but they did just straight up fix Decisive Strike. It was a problem, and now it isn't- the change we got wasn't subpar, it was exactly what it should've been.
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It's to make unhooks more risky if the killer's right on top of you. Taking face-camping out of the equation for a moment, you clearly shouldn't have absolute freedom to do anything while the killer's right on top of you, if you don't bait them right into hitting you so you can use the weapon-wipe to get the unhook, you should be punished for that.
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Yeah, I really don't think that's true.
Besides, with a tone like this one coming at them so often, can you really blame them for being distant? There's no right way to respond to stuff like this from a PR perspective, it's a lose/lose scenario where not engaging is the best option.
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Unless I'm missing something, isn't the survivor side of the bloodweb just... reskinned normal items? That makes a fair amount more sense to be available year-round, frankly.
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@Sepex said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700681#Comment_2700681
Solely based if all survivors are good loopers you may not even be able to hook 4 all. Doesn't happen often but the potential is there.
I don't really see how that's specific to this perk, though. If you can't hook everyone, surely no perk is going to help you?
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@Sepex said:
Obsolete perk if the survivors are good loopers.
How so?
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2700664#Comment_2700664
The guy with kindred needs to be on the hook for the others to see anything.
Right, misremembered the specifics of that perk. Doesn't change much, though- a good team of solos is still gonna have the gamesense to know when to go for a save, and the rest of my point absolutely still stands.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2697794#Comment_2697794
SWF raises the survivors difficulty Regardless of their skill. A team that can't loop and just instantly drops pallets and Shift W's to the other side of the map each chase can give you just as much trouble as a team of god loopers if they are efficient on generators.
I just had a 5 minute game that i won with half a generator left, only because they screwed up and allowed me to hook, slug and chase down the last guy who still hadn't been hooked yet. Chases didn't last more than 20-30 seconds, but that doesn't matter when there was always one gen being 2 manned (47 second generator) and another working solo. When they completed the 2 man gen one would run and help the solo guy and the other would go for a save or start on their own generator.
This strat guaranteed one gen per hook when you add travel time and hook time even though they sucked at looping and just held W and pre dropped most of the time.
What part about any of that is exclusive to SWF, though? Any halfway decent survivor is going to know to do all of that even if they're all playing solo, it's not that hard to know that holding W and predropping is a strong strategy, and all that the second thing you described requires is one guy having Kindred so everyone can see who's closest to the hook.
That's my point. All of that can and does happen from a lobby of full solo players, and it's not a guarantee that you will see it from a 4-man either. The information isn't actually indicative of what kind of experience you're going to get.
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I noticed this too- I kinda like it, really leans in to the idea that the killer's standing a little way away just watching the survivors get ready for the trial.
Kinda creepy.
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Homestuck. It's not super likely because it's not a horror property and it's probably a little too sci-fi, but I'd die happy with at least a legendary suite of skins, maybe Oni for Grand Highblood or Damara/Handmaid for Spirit- hell, go weird and do a genderbend skin making Hillbilly into Kanaya, that'd rule.
More likely and a little less obscure - to the point that it was actually on their survey a while back - is Hellblazer. The original incarnation of John Constantine is basically the perfect Survivor.
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They can do both, and to a certain degree they actually do; they just need to step it up. The most recent big patch didn't require postponing a DLC, and it was almost 100% incredible.
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Seconding the sentiment that Myers is actually shockingly accurate, he shouldn't be involved in this conversation.
Regarding Nemesis, the thing is that like... from what I've seen of his source material, there are four things that set him apart, right? The sprinting, the leaping, the heavy weaponry, and the mutation/tentacle/zombie portion.
Two of those are a complete non-starter. A leap wouldn't work in DBD, the engine and maps simply aren't built for it, and it's obvious to anyone with a grasp of tonal consistency that Nemesis can't be running around the trial with a rocket launcher, so that leaves them with two options. One can certainly say that the tentacle whip is too reminiscent of Pyramid Head's M2 attack, and even that the mutation mechanic is too similar to Plague's infection, but if they went with a sprint/dash/rush mechanic... that's a mechanic shared by Billy, Oni, Pig, Demo, Blight, Victor, and to a lesser degree Wraith and Legion. There are a lot of mobility based killers, so it's a perfectly legitimate decision not to want to make Nemesis feel more samey by making him one too.
I don't think Nemesis is inaccurate, and they picked the right option when it comes to what to translate, even if it could've been done better.
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2698845#Comment_2698845
I agree that its terrible balance wise.
But that doesnt mean it doesnt fit.
They just need some tweaks for better balancing other wise it fits perfectly.
The thing is that the tweaks to make it work for balance would have to be pretty major to actually work- something to the tune of splitting it up into separate maps in the same realm, to dramatically cut down on its size.
Nobody's arguing the aesthetic, the visuals absolutely fit amazingly, but its layout is a huge problem that can't be fixed with minor loop tweaks, it needs to be really fundamentally changed somehow.
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@Ruma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2698659#Comment_2698659
How?
Please explain why it shouldnt work for ,,DbD gameplay"
I can take a stab at this one.
So, the biggest problem with the RPD map is that it is far too big, both to walk across and with the three levels it has taken into account. Time is at a premium in DBD and big maps are pretty bad- much moreso for killer, but still somewhat for survivor. On top of that, the maps are a maze of tight corners and zig-zagging walls; again, not a terrible idea in concept, Lery's is like that and it's not too bad, but this map has it causing a similar problem to Midwich where you can know exactly where you need to go but have a hell of a time getting there; either because you have to walk around in a ridiculously wide loop because you can't walk straight, or because you have to figure out where you're even going.
Those are the two main problems, and they impact survivors as much as killers. You can know a teammate is on the hook across the map... but can you get there in time to save? It's moderately likely they'll progress to second hook stage, if nothing else.
The layout of this map is great for its actual game, but it's poorly designed for DBD itself- the games play dramatically differently, in RE itself you have multiple hours to get used to the layout and evade the killer, while matches of DBD play much faster and require quicker motion from both parties.