jesterkind
jesterkind
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Hard agree.
Not to say balance issues can't be talked about or can't be frustrating, but people get far, far, far too worked up over them.
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I think people are vastly missing the mark on the solution, even when they can see the problem- at least as far as I'm concerned, DH to actually dodge a hit can sometimes be kinda cheap but is ultimately the far more fair and counterable part of the perk, it's using it to simply gain distance and reach another loop that's the problem.
Now, first of all, we need to understand that Dead Hard is not the cause of this problem. Dead Hard is a symptom; the cause is strong loops and the extreme time deficit that the Killer operates in.
Even so, I think it's fair to nerf the problematic aspect of Dead Hard since you see it so often. Rather than removing the dash, which I don't think is particularly smart as an idea, I'd propose a brief (somewhere between 6 and 12 seconds) cooldown after using it where you cannot interact with a pallet or vault spot in any way. That way, if you really want to use it for distance, the value you get out of taht move is going to be much lower- but if you're using it to dodge a hit then this change doesn't affect you in the least.
Promote using it properly, over using it to gain distance, and its usage will ultimately still go down but it'll be a much healthier perk.
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I agree entirely. Boons as a concept do have some issues - going through floors is a big one - but they are not fundamentally broken. There are three Boon perks, and of the three, one is OP. The other two are moderately okay (Shadow Step) and honestly kind of garbage (Exponential), so the mechanic itself doesn't need to be nuked from orbit.
Heavy nerf Circle of Healing, and add a few lighter nerfs to boon totems like restricted verticality, more consistent audio cues for the killer, and maybe a slightly shorter range. That's the way to go.
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Definitely Myers.
Pig's squeak is a close second, though, it's very cute.
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@Ssajbambusa said:
They literally changed it so you have perk slots avaiable very soon... Lvl 15 takes like 5 games, stop crying.
Five games before the character you bought is usable, that's my point. It would help cut down on this game's grind immensely if you could at least use a character's teachables straight away.
This isn't crying, it's a suggestion for how to fix an obvious existing problem with the game. I'm not saying it's a horrendous timesink (though five games isn't that quick either), but it's enough of one that doing it every time adds up and contributes to the game's overall grind.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2709542#Comment_2709542
Yeah she looks like DBD Jill. That means she doesn't look like her. Like Tapp doesn't or Quentin or Laurie. Now I want you to look at Leon. Leon looks jut like him. Jill looks nothing like her. Anyone who has played RE3R a ton would probably say the same thing. She is just a DBD version of Jill which is not even good. It's bad. The best looking licensed survivors are Leon, Bill, and probably Ash or Steve. Those actually look a bit like the character and Leon and Bill look PERFECT. Like seriously, how do people see Jill in DBD's Jill? She doesn't even look like A Jill. She looks like a Sarah or something.
I can't speak to Tapp or Quentin as I've not seen their source material, but Laurie looks exactly like her source material. She's not based on the movie actress, she's based on the comics, and she looks really good.
Steve looks good too, I think they did a phenomenal job with Nancy, Ash looks like how I think that character looks from memory, Leon looks perfect, Cheryl looks good when she's not bugged out, Jill looks more like her source material than any other translation, Bill translates fine...
Honestly, BHVR nail this aspect of licenses more than they don't.
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Very often on these forums I see ideas labelled as simple, obvious, and unambiguously good, when they don't meet some of that criteria and would actually be quite hard to implement.
This is not one of those ideas. This would actually be pretty cool! I'd definitely use some of these, even- not that I personally can afford to drop cash on the Rift, but hypothetically, I'd use them.
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@Chordyceps said:
I like this concept a lot, I don't really have any major criticisms about it.
The one thing I'd probably change is which hit Debilitating pressure applies to, probably to 5th/4th/3rd hit. I just feel like the hit it applies to should be an odd number, because typically your even number hits will be the ones that put survivors into the dying state, so exhaustion woudln't do much of anything to them at that point.
That's a good point, I hadn't considered that- probably a good change to make, with that in mind!
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I don't play survivor, but I've been keeping an eye out for it- I've seen it once or twice, but I've never seen it get value. Honestly, I don't really see any of Jonah's perks? Even when people are playing as him, I rarely see his perks in their loadout, at least when I think to look out for them.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/301425/developer-survivor-bias
I agree with the adept achievements. Killer you really have to work for it, survivor not at all. It's should be at least like the "Power Moves" achievement, where you have to repair the equivalent of 1 gen and escape to get it. Or maybe change the killer requirement where you just have to kill all survivors, end score doesn't come into the equation.
I think the theme should be leaned into more than the difficulty- by that I mean, simply achieving the win condition with just those three perks is plenty, there's no reason for the difficulty to be any higher than the average survivor adept.
Killers should just have to get a 4K, since getting a Merciless Victory is wayyyy too hard for a stock challenge achievement like this- not to mention how the emblem system actively screws over certain killers, making it even harder.
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@impulse_90 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711450#Comment_2711450
If you're the type to pick out a spelling mistake of one letter then I don't know what to tell you. Anyone who's been playing the game for more than a day knows how broken the adept system actually is and that was my point.
And since you think I can't, happy to tell you I can.
- My point regardless of a spelling mistake was a 4k should be more than enough to give a killer an adept achieve considering how disgustingly easy it is to obtain as a survivor.
- If circle of healing is a problem then boons ARE a problem, you can't have one without the other. Pretty simply tbh.
- It's not about DS deactivating, it's about the simply fact that the survivor that has DS up runs along side a killer and bodyblocks for the person that you're trying to chase because they know they're safe in either being downed and triggering DS or the killer slugging them and giving their teamate an opporunity to get some distance which is abusing it, that's just a fact.
- You think I don't look at a wall when picking someone up? Do you think I'm just some 10 hour fresh killer or something? I've picked someone up while looking into a wall or locker and been flashlighted from either side or I've been flashlighted from the front and gone to turn around only to have another sweaty survivor flashlighting me from the other side too. Don't act like it's a simple thing to avoid when it isn't against good teams.
- Maps being a problem feeds into the larger issue of killers being so weak, the fact that maps haven't been changed in like ever is a major issue in itself.
- It doesn't matter what people have been saying before, the reality is experienced killers are dropping off this game to either play other games or play survivor which is never a good thing. Dunno if you've seen the youtube video of the dev Cote suggesting to the guy that was complaining about killers back in 2018 to go play Civ or play survivor but if you haven't I recommend watching that Q&A session. It truly highlights how out of touch with their comunity they really are.
- Doesn't matter what the feedback is, they can ignore the abusive and not constructive feedback but the reality is they are ignoring feedback that they think isn't relevant when it's extremely relevant but continue to keep pushing it aside time and time again.
In summary I realise that none of the issues i've mentioned here are simple fixes but the fact that they continue to ignore major issues in terms of balancing and bugs in this game is pretty scary tbh.
And before you go saying I'm a killer main or I'm biased etc, I believe noed should be removed from the game because it 's a toxic perk that gives ######### killers the ability to get a 1k or 2k when they don't deserve it.
I like the way the game works but after investing hundreds of hours into it to simply get ######### on at higher ranks and tbagged at every turn isn't fun. I don't know how much killer you've actually played but if you find that fun then good on you this is a great game for you.
I know this wasn't directed at me specifically, but hey, public forum and I feel like I have something constructive to add. I want to hit on three things briefly-
Boons are a perk type, like Hexes or Exhaustion. Circle of Healing can be a problem independent of the perk type that it is, and that's exactly what's happening here. You say here you think NOED is a problem, so the equivalent would be saying that Hexes are a problem because one perk within that type is a problem.
Maps do get changed, to be fair. Sometimes the changes are bad, sometimes they're good, but maps do get changed.
Cote was just right in that interview, it's not a good indication that the devs aren't listening. In fact, it seems really obvious to me that they are listening, considering how many things the community gives feedback on that do get changed- a more fair criticism may be that they're too slow, but that's a different criticism so pivoting to it doesn't disprove what I'm saying right now.
...Oh, I guess minor point, but fourth thing: I don't think survivor adepts are too easy, I think that's how adepts should work- just achieve your win condition with those three perks equipped. Killer adepts are too hard, that's the problem. Probably splitting hairs on that point, though.
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I'm not sure what your problem with bodyblocking and flashlights are- those are good things, survivors doing that are not doing generators and are actively putting themselves in harm's way by trying to get up close to you. Those aren't problems with the state of the game, they're just a part of the game, and a part that you can absolutely play around!
Also, DS doesn't... need to be nerfed again? It's in a pretty healthy spot right now, the only way to use it actively is to do as you described, waste time buzzing around the killer, which again- that's good for you, as the killer. That survivor is not progressing the game and you can very much just ignore them, or down them and make them waste an Unbreakable or get someone to heal them, thus dragging someone else off generators.
Some of the stuff you raised is a problem, though. Boons need looking at (though... not because of Exponential, that perk is pretty weak), there are some pretty awful map designs, and killer Adept achievements are definitely harder than survivor Adepts for basically no reason, so I agree those should be fixed.
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You're right that it would increase the amount of skill required to use the perk, but I wouldn't support it myself for one reason- that would just encourage people to use DH for distance even more, since that doesn't require invincibility and is already a lot safer than using it to dodge a hit. Generally speaking, you want survivors to be using it to dodge a hit- that's the counterable use, that's the use that requires skill (albeit not that much), that's the use that only sometimes actually gives all that much value.
What I'd propose instead is having a cooldown of somewhere around six seconds after using Dead Hard where you can't interact with pallets or vault locations, so survivors can't Dead Hard for distance quite as easily.
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I came up with some perks for a custom killer design I may post up here later, but here's one perk from the list:
Hex: Waterlogged. It's hard to focus with the sound of water pounding in your ears. While this Hex is standing, any Survivor working on a generator is inflicted with the Oblivious status effect. This effect lingers for 8/9/10 seconds after the Survivor stops working on the generator.
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I just realised, too- imagine if they did Kino, and it had a secret area only Nurse could access like Hawkins, that's the projector room at the top. That'd be pretty cool!
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@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2711339#Comment_2711339
whats wrong with Richtofen?
Well the bigger question is WHICH of the 2 classic ones, Primis or Ultimis. I would prefer Ultimis, ultimis richtofen is the ######### best!
I don't see them adding a nazi as a survivor, that's all. Maybe if they could make him the killer, but even then, it feels like they don't want to go too real with their villains, I think Doctor is the most we'll get there.
I do not know what those two words mean lol. Is it the OG versus the Origins version? If so, I'd have assumed the OG versions, they tend to go for the first incarnation of any given license.
...Except Nightmare on Elm Street, but that's the one exception.
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That's an interesting thought exercise- there are definitely maps that wouldn't work, like Tranzit (unless it were a realm with multiple maps, maybe?), but I feel like a lot of the earlier maps are definitely strong contenders.
And I'm in luck, since I've only played up to BO2 (and two maps on BO3), so I know the fitting ones!
I feel like the two best options are a slightly opened up Nacht Der Untoten, or a slightly shrunk Kino Der Toten. They're both pretty iconic too, so they're good options. I would also quite like to see Der Riese, but that's more because it's my favourite map in the series
and I'll never forgive that crappy remake.Would this come with one of the original four zombie crew as a survivor, maybe? I don't see them adding Richtofen, but the other three are fair game.
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Nemesis is a pretty decent all-rounder. He's reasonably strong, his power is pretty fun to use (at least imo) and he has at least one quite good perk.
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Oh, yeah, like this weird meaty thump that sounds occasionally? I had that too, I had no idea what was causing it.
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Seconding that NOED isn't particularly good. It'll get you one down, maybe two- or it'll give you nothing, if everyone's injured or it's cleansed as soon as it's lit, or if you just don't get a down until the gates are open and everyone's leaving.
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Is being this dramatic not like, exhausting?
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I think the fundamental design is... decent, but warrants a downside. Something like lowering how many bottles he can carry, or increasing reload speed, or hell, maybe even both.
I wouldn't be too upset if it did get completely reworked, but I also don't think that's the only way to fix it. Right now it's just categorically better than anything else you can do with Clown, and I think that kind of addon warrants a downside. Iridescent Head and Engineer's Fang both have downsides, after all.
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Because they did something extremely tame and muted in the snowmen, and people exploded.
Also, they probably don't want to change the one game mode too dramatically, and adding a second one would be a lot of work for a seasonal event that risks splitting the playerbase and making queue times take way too long.
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Never considered this option before, but something similar to a symbiote could be a really interesting inclusion in the game.
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I made my own post on what to do with keys, but my idea for them is to completely rework them visually and thematically- no more "keys", the addons do different things and are themed differently, they no longer open the hatch at all. Instead, the Token addons are basekit for the different rarities, because "keys" would be for seeing your teammates within its radius.
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Are you arguing against the boon totem mechanic, or against Circle of Healing? The post is a little unclear, the first and last sentence are about the mechanic but your example is more to do with CoH specifically.
If we're talking about CoH specifically, that perk is OP and needs some hefty nerfing to bring it in line with the rest of the healing options + stop it from breaking the game. If we're talking about the mechanic in general, it's actually a good and interesting design that could easily benefit the game immensely with just a few small tweaks.
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I actively play Fortnite and I have to disagree. I think their version of Jill looks fine for the style that Fortnite operates in, but I think the DBD version of Jill looks better.
Also not super fair to compare a bugged version of a skin to a not bugged version.
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I'm not sure what you're describing here is facecamping? Depending on how far away you walked, that's just intercepting hook saves, that's not the same thing as facecamping at all- hell, depending on how far away you walked and what you did in the meantime, it may not even be proxy camping.
To the larger point, though, there is certainly something to be said for pairing Corrupt and Deadlock with a campy playstyle. I'm actually curious how much value NOED gave you, though, it kinda seems like it'd only give you a down or so since survivors would just cleanse it? Bubba's also a killer people seem to be more okay being injured against, which makes NOED useless anyway outside the speed boost.
I'm also curious about seeing a wider sample size for this experiment, honestly.
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2707240#Comment_2707240
So it still gives 2 free perks to the rest of the team at no cost, effectively adding 6 perks to the Survivor side.
Just because it isn't as fundamentally broken as CoH doesn't mean it's still not OP.
You and I both know that the cost is the time it takes to set up, the limited range, and the restrictions on where it can be placed.
Boons are not a broken design. They're designed to pull survivors away from generators in exchange for buffs that the killer can interrupt and thus prompt more slowdown from survivors trying to relight it, and Shadow Step is honestly a really good example of how to do that- it's got a good effect, but one that can be played around if needed. It's not game breaking, it's not OP, but it's enough for survivors to want to go spend time setting it back up again.
What exactly is wrong with it?
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@Bardon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705405#Comment_2705405
Shadow gives the entire team infinite Distortion + infinite Lucky Break - so one perk on one survivor adds 2 perks to the other three survivors at zero time or perk cost to the rest of the team.
Definitely busted.
It really doesn't. Infinite Distortion, yes, but it does not give infinite Lucky Break- it gives infinite Poised.
Lucky Break is way stronger than Shadow Step even if you disregard the range requirement, because it also hides blood. Shadow Step is nowhere near as strong as CoH, it's reasonably powerful but it's not game-breaking in the least.
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Spawns.
Survivors should always spawn together, or MAYBE 2/2 split, but never all spread out like they can sometimes. Further away from generators if possible, definitely further away from totems...
Give everyone a second to get into the match and make some distance before generators are repaired.
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Rather than any specific licenses, at least for killer, what I want at this point are certain aesthetic archetypes.
Top of the list are a rundown android/mannequin type deal, and something based on old style diving suits. Not picky on what they do, but those aesthetics are choice as hell.
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I made a thread myself a little while ago, but I'll recap my ideas here:
- Make Tier One less punishing. My ideas for this would be to EITHER give him a full-size lunge in tier one, or to make him move at regular speed during tier one. I don't think both should be implemented, that would be too much, but tier one is too punishing. Additionally, it takes a little less time to tier up.
- Make Tier Three more deadly, but shorter. Myers could, with this idea, get a mini-Enduring effect and the ability to simply walk straight through dropped pallets and breakable walls with a speed penalty, as well as getting killer instinct on any survivor who he's stalked above 50% whenever Tier 3 starts. In exchange, it drains faster, so it's more like spikes of adrenaline instead of a true "third act".
On top of these, you could probably just get rid of the distance adjustments on stalk rate, they don't really make all that much sense.
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It's a very good game that I enjoy playing. Nothing more to it than that.
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Boons need tweaks, but not that. Their core design is fine- in fact, I'd go so far as to say that their core intended effect on the game is actually very good! The problem is that it's hard for their current implementation to really give that kind of slowdown.
Stop 'em going through multiple floors and change a few totem spawn spots so they aren't majorly out of the way, and boon totems as a mechanic would be just fine.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705093#Comment_2705093
The totals players are stable right now. It is going down a little bit actually, but it's just normal fluctuations. If we count the total number of players on average since SBMM has been introduced, the number has decreased actually
I'm really not sure what else it could be, though. It's clearly present, and as you said, the game's not been getting any worse; in fact, it's been getting a lot better.
Occam's Razor is just that it's negativity bias and a particularly hostile community, what else would you suggest as the cause?
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Bubba.
I've seen the most angry comments from survivors when I play Bubba, and one of them even left the only negative comment on my steam profile over it. Regardless of how you play, people are just mad there's a Bubba.
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@Leonardo1ita said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2705053#Comment_2705053
Are you sure? Dbd hasn't been always like this, and the game was way more busted back in time
Yes, I'm sure. The playercount has been going up, and that means there are more players who are hit by negativity bias on top of the extant players who have negativity bias and the fact that anything bad in the game feels much worse after the charm has worn off.
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Negativity bias. People who are enjoying a thing don't tend to go out of their way to leave youtube comments, twitter replies, and forum posts talking about it- and if they do, they often get discouraged by the wave of negativity that can sometimes come in response.
That's basically all it is, combined with a degree of starting to take good aspects for granted the longer you've sat with a work- this doesn't just apply to DBD, or even video games, I've seen it a lot elsewhere.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2704980#Comment_2704980
This is not just a me issue, I have seen countless people talking about how Killer right now against good Survivors is not fun.
And they are right, it's not.
I've talked about how some aspects of this game aren't fun right now myself, that isn't at all equal to the extent you made it out to be in your post. If you're really staring at the ready up button with dread, that is a you problem, and the solution to it is to stop playing. No game is worth that.
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@MrCalac123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2704646#Comment_2704646
This is a bunch of fancy language meant to try and mask a universally understood issue with the game. Killer against very good Survivors who run meta perks, meta items, map offerings, and of course SWF is EXTREMELY difficult for anyone who is not Nurse.
I feel like I shouldn't even have to argue this, and your comment says more about you than it does me.
Fancy language...?
Also, yes, you're (partially) right. However, you are almost certainly not playing against top tier survivors, and there is almost certainly something you're doing wrong that you could improve on. Like I said, you can't just assume that you're playing against high MMR opponents just because your games are hard.
Against regular teams of survivors, even at a "high MMR", killers do have it a little more difficult than they should, but it's not impossible. Again, your original post has some truth to it, but the language and tone is overdramatic to the point of blowing it way out of proportion.
To cap this off: If you're really finding yourself staring at the ready up button and wondering if it's worth the stress, stop playing. If that is genuinely true, you should not be putting yourself through that, it's not healthy.
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@Canas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2704946#Comment_2704946
Idea number three would require that ALL boon perks would be limited to a single use, that's what I'm suggesting. It would also deter people from stacking their effects.
That would be horrendously bad? Why on earth would we need to do that to Shadow Step, an only decent perk on a majority of maps, and Exponential, a straight up terrible perk?
There's no need to look at the boon mechanic itself to balance one perk, is the point. Nerf Circle of Healing into the ground, sure, but if you even moderately nerf the other two they'll become straight up useless- or even more useless, in the case of Exponential.
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Number one is all that's necessary- I'd personally move towards capping self-healing through any means, since I don't think you should be able to stack stuff onto yourself, but anything that just lowers how much insane time-saving value survivors can get from it would be ideal.
The second idea is a bad one because that's not a nerf to Circle of Healing, that's a nerf to boons- it'd be like if old Undying got "nerfed" by reducing the number of totems in a trial no matter what, as opposed to changing the effect itself.
The third idea branches on from that- I don't see why CoH should work differently to the other two in that regard, consistency in the mechanic is a good thing to build.
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Hellblazer. I want a licensed paragraph with John Constantine so goddamn bad.
But only the Hellblazer version, I don't think the more modern versions would fit as well.
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I'd agree with that. Make survivors spawn together by default, remove the Shroud of Binding and Shroud of Union, give the Shroud of Separation to survivors but make it purple rarity instead.
Additionally, totem spawns need updating so survivors don't spawn within a few metres of one, whether it's lit or not.
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While I do agree that this addon is mediocre (My understanding is its only real use case is to combine with the post-pounce cooldown addon to trick survivors into going for kicks they can't finish), I do think it's a little misleading to highlight the specific number value.
Just within the Twins' addon repertoire alone you've got the Toy Sword, arguably their strongest addon, with a value of .25 seconds. It can be misleading sometimes.
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There's a kernel of truth here - the killer role is at a bit too much of a time disadvantage - but it's being dressed up in horrendously overdramatic language.
This is not my experience, nor is it an experience you can claim to be universal. Also, you have no proof you're playing at a high MMR, it seems like you're just assuming you're at high MMR because the survivors you're facing are good enough to play well against you, and that's recursive logic that actively stifles any chance of improving at the game.
Also. This is not "the biggest issue". There are a lot of issues for both sides of the game, and more importantly, the game as a whole, and this one is just one of them.
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Generally speaking, new concepts should at least attempt to be balanced before they're tossed out. Boons as a mechanic don't need this change, it'd be dramatic overkill for two thirds of the list of boon perks, so instead I think more subdued tweaks are in order. Range tweaks, verticality tweaks, some kind of cooldown...
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@AngyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2704019#Comment_2704019
1: Sure.
2: No. Hell no. There goes ANY altruistic plays when NoED activates. People by the exit gates, and NoED pops? Now they just leave. No more kills for me.
At least, when it stays hidden until I hit someone, I have that chance to down someone trying to save their friend. Your idea? Nope! Leave the friend, do not risk it, because I know it's there the second it become active. Now, the Killer literally gets 0 kills off of altruistic plays.
No. This is such a massive nerf. It removes the surprise aspect to tell Survivors 'I HAVE NOED! JUST LEAVE SO I CAN'T GET ANYMORE KILLS! THANK YOU!'
Nothing actually changes regarding how NOED functions with this change, though? As soon as survivors know it's there, they either leave or they stick around to disable it. The only thing that changes is that the survivor you're on top of when it pops knows you have it and won't be quite as cocky, but that probably won't really make much of a difference now you've got a speed boost.
If you've already got someone downed, that means they almost certainly already know that NOED is there, and if you managed to get the down some other way they'll either just leave (which I don't think NOED should do anything about alone; you should have a proper endgame build to have more than a bit of an edge) or they'll stick around to go cleanse the totem, which means you have room to move.
Besides, "just leave" is the counter to NOED, it's why the perk is balanced. On its own, right now, it only gets you one, maybe two downs- it'll get the same here unless you're extraordinarily unlucky with where everyone is when the perk activates, which current NOED wouldn't really help you with either.
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The perk's core design is absolutely fine, so I wouldn't be looking to change anything about that, but there are two things that I think should be changed regarding NOED.
1: It should be able to spawn over a boon if it needs to. This should also go for Plaything, too, but that's a separate thing. This wouldn't even be all that powerful- keen survivors will notice their blue aura snuffing out, it just feels more right thematically.
2: It should reveal itself to survivors as soon as it activates, not when someone's hit by it. The perk has plenty of counterplay at all stages of the match, but in its current state there's one person who doesn't have much of an opportunity to react to it, and that's not particularly fair.