foxsansbox
foxsansbox
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@dictep said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784344#Comment_2784344
Why not 3 survs start the match hooked?
Why not ignore your constant quibbling because you've demonstrated you never have any intention of arguing in good faith?
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I have a massive list of grievances, but these are the top 5 that I would do that I feel would shake up the meta in a really nice way:
- Make survivors the BP breadwinners so that killers can be balanced as the power role
- Nerf (or remove) all second chance perks, on both sides, and buff the duration of all aura reading perks so they can be used to assist in looping mindgames and objective prioritization
- Raise the height of all tall-wall tilesets by 35% to combat stretch Res
- Increase the penalty for a killer missing his attack by a factor proportional to the reduction of a survivors speed boost upon losing a health state (Combats excessive bodyblocking, prevents the second health state from always being guarenteed to play out at the strongest tile set, and this reduction would allow them to consider things like BT basekit because it would no longer be a get out of jail free card no matter who the killer chose)
- Remove Bloodlust and increase the speed of all killers by 2%
Lets make decisions have consequences and looping an actual skill instead of a game of whack-a-mole with pallets.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784326#Comment_2784326
I dont see why you have to respect it.
The data is still data, you are free to criticise it, but it doesn't make it any lesser.
Then I don't see the need to continue this conversation. I did criticize it, it is junk data that yields nothing conclusive, despite how hard he pushed his bias. Which is really my only contention with what you originally said to me, that I'm reading too into it. Sounds like this conversation was completely unnecessary.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2784305#Comment_2784305
I think you're reading into the intentions of OP far too much.
OP recorded some stats, over his last 100 games, based on those statistics and then the comparison between them and someone else's statistics, he made his conclusion. Is it perfect? no, but you will never get a perfect conclusion on statistics that have far too many variables to begin with. So trying to reduce the argument down to that, is pretty redundant
I disagree. You can run some pretty cool data collection experiments in DBD. It hurts that they don't have an API that allows us to call data by user, but you can do it manually. You can eliminate SSBM bias by playing 50 games on every killer extremely sweaty before starting your data collection efforts, and then you can eliminate further variables by isolating and using high value, generic perks that address current metas across the entire roster. You can reduce feast or famine results by excluding NoED and certain iridescent add ons. You can exclude games where DC's tamper with the actual outcome of a match and you can VOD everything to gather extra statistics at the end that will allow you to sort and present the data more accurately.
You don't have to do something perfect for me to respect it. You just have to do something not utterly lazy that yields no valuable conclusions.
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@GaslightGabby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783506#Comment_2783506
I DC on RPD for multiple reasons, and not just with Nurse. It's not a playable map. You just lose unless you're facing extremely predictable survivors that you can easily guess against. Winning on that map isn't SKILL, it's LUCK. And the entire reason I love Nurse is her skill aspect.
Lery's I can play and win on for the most part, because correct pathing can mostly prevent guessing, and the map is set up in a way that you can make safe guesses that more or less guarantee a hit. But it also tanks my fps and once made my game crash.
Guessing isn't skill. Stop trying to make it out to be.
You appeared to mea culpa and clarify yourself for me in an earlier response, and despite you dismissing a whole swathe of players by saying something akin to "You shouldn't be playing Nurse if you're guessing.", I appreciated that (But seriously, not cool). However, the above is a really concerning admission.
How can you claim to be an experienced Nurse if you refuse to play her when conditions are unfavorable? I've still got a lot to learn with her, but I don't DC, and I don't give up, I take my licks even though I do sometimes have to guess, and blindly at that when the game is going really bad.
And I can tell you right now, without a goddamn doubt in my mind, after years of playing various games competitively at the national level, that the ability to get in side your opponents head and guess correctly is a skill.
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@SmarulKusia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2734750#Comment_2734750
Statistically, this isn't true though. He may have matches where he loses, but they are a drastically smaller percentage. This is not accounting for matches where he is being stream-sniped, or encountering cheaters/throwers.
I'm not saying that he steamrolls, because he has games which are close calls and where he actually has to put himself together to secure kills, but the man's statistics speak for him.
I stand by what I said, the person I responded to spoke with hyperbole and misrepresented reality. Given that this is a thread about statistics, people should be culpable for that nonsense.
Edit: This doesn't mean SSBM isn't a ######### show. We know it is. My whole contention with the OP's nonsense is that he's not informed about what makes a statistically significant, or accurate, sample size. He makes 0 effort to control variables and his data is largely junk. The fact that he speaks in absolutisms about things he clearly misunderstood is just icing.
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That's really the only thing worse than camping and tunneling, two validated tactics?
- Not hacking?
- Not hostage taking?
- Not stretched res?
Yikes.
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@SilentShepherd said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783832#Comment_2783832
How are you not getting his point through your skull?
SOMEONE has to keep the killer busy. SOMEONE. Or else you don't get any generators done. do you get it?
If a player is so skilled, and can loop the killer while rest of team does generators in peace and quiet... and then that players gets hooked at end game and camped by killer because killer is salty and desperate for 1k.... how the hell can you consider it a W for the other 3 players, and a loss for the player who died?
The player who died literally carried his team, and does not get any credit for it.
My gosh its not hard.
Gosh, calm down. What you're saying is that since "SOMEONE" has to do it, they're a martyr who's more likely to die. That's not the case. In most games multiple survivors contribute to the looping mini-game. In a game where one survivor has the skill to loop for 5 gens, they most likely have the skill to loop for 5 gens + Gate open. The entire argument is disingenuous.
You need to stop looking at this in a petri dish. If those three other survivors don't have the skills necessary to win consistently. They. Will. Not. Them getting out the one game where this guy magically looped for 5 gens and not a second more is their outlier. They won't get Mr. 5-Gen Supreme next game, or the game after that. And if this guy magically loops for 5 gens every game, then for him it is a norm, and he is more likely to escape in general.
Arguing that your MMR should be adjusted positively when you don't win is the most backwards logic I can think of.
@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783832#Comment_2783832
I know what they’re saying, but what I’m saying is that they’re incorrect.
Looping (as well as other objectives) should be measured as skill even if it does not net you an escape.
Everyone loves analogies so here’s one to highlight the point:
Mr. Gingeroo loops the killer for 5 gens. Everyone else just does gens. Mr. Gingeroo gets hooked. Everyone leaves.
Should Mr. Gingeroo be penalised because his team did some skill checks and held W through the exit gate, leaving him to die on hook?
Who was the most skilful, and who had the largest contribution towards victory, in your opinion:
Claudette, David and Meg did 5 gens together, unabated.
Mr. Gingeroo outplayed an equally skilled killer at the most skill-intensive activity survivors have access to for 5 free gens, but finally got caught and was unable to complete the last part of his objective (holding W through a loading screen.)
Judging skill based from escapes alone does not roll it all up into one value. That’s the issue I’m getting at.
Some questions for your hypothetical:
- What if you killer-bombed the people doing gens? How does the game evaluate that? How does the game even measure that, can you keep track of all the variables involved that would be necessary just to DETERMINE if the looping and chase was skillful or just dragging the stain through their comrades?
- Is a killer less skillful because they get sucked into awful looping situations? They exist on several maps, where if you're M1 you're boned. Should they lose some MMR even if they get a 4K because they were looped a lot?
- What if someone else wasted 30 seconds of the Killers time with a well-played immersion stunt? How does the game measure that, proximity? What if a person is in proximity just because they're sandbagging with a flashlight looking for an archive save?
- What about a survivor who has every totem spot memorized and can hammer out that NOED the second it comes into play? Is he less skillful for only doing a single totem the entire game instead of as many as possible, or maybe he's just lucky? How would the system know?
The second you start picking and choosing what you think is a more valid expression of skill is, you create two issues. 1) Like Patrick said, scenarios where both sides have 'won' to a degree, and we already understand why this doesn't work. And 2) You end up with a system that can't accurately track the metrics that lead to a win because they are too acute and nuanced.
In either case, rolling it up is the solution, and it is accurate. I refuse to believe these mythical 5-gen loopers are losing as much as the forum would have us believe they are losing.
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@apathyinc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783833#Comment_2783833
They never specified about bleed outs. Some streamers bleed out survivors over and over, their MMR never changes, they stay at rock bottom MMR rank after thousands of "kills". I've asked the devs here on the forums to clarify, but they never answered, so I'm going with what I've seen with my own eyes. A "kill" is only a sacrifice or mori. A bleed out is probably set the same as a hatch escape.
I believe you, but I haven't seen any streamer I watch do this. Can you at least give me a name? I'd love to see what variables they control.
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@apathyinc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783799#Comment_2783799
The game gives no bloodpoints when the survivor bleeds out, no MMR, or emblem points from them either, all the killer gets is 250 bleeding points. Kills (mori) and sacrifices are wins, bleed outs are nothing. Bleeding out is a non-action, it just happens, no skill involved.
Do you have a source that confirms bleeding out doesn't raise MMR?
I could be wrong but according to BHVR a kill is a kill is a kill.
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@El_Gingero said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783780#Comment_2783780
I’m referring to the previous post in which I addressed your arguments before you made them, not my first post. My bad!
You have not refuted anything at all lol. Your arguments are very easily dismantled, and I will again demonstrate:
Yes, escaping is the objective.
To achieve the objective you must do other stuff.
Thus, your objective consists of multiple gameplay loops/activities, aka other objectives. These objectives require varying levels of skill.
Walking through the exit gate is the easiest activity within your main objective.
Looping the killer for a long time is the hardest activity within your main objective.
“But Mr. Gingeroo! Escaping IS the main objective!”
Yes, it is indeed! However, as we have already established, and as you have admitted yourself, in order to achieve said objective, you have to do other stuff. Therefore, your objective actually consists of far more than simply running through an exit gate. There are….several objectives!
Here’s the kicker though: The end result - actually running through that loading screen, is the easiest part of it all. The other stuff you do beforehand takes more skill. Running the killer for a long time takes the most, regardless of whether or not you run through a loading screen afterwards.
“But Mr. Gingeroo! Are you saying that survivor skill is not based solely on escapes, and to judge it that way ignores the full-picture? And…and that some of the activities you must engage with in order to escape in the first place actually take more skill than the actual escaping itself?”
Yes! That’s what I’m saying! I’m glad we are finally getting somewhere :D
(This topic sort of bores me and I’ve got to have some fun with it)
My man,
He's not saying looping isn't a skill, he's saying if it doesn't get you the win in that match, it shouldn't be measured as a skill, in that match.
That's why only the win condition is measured, because it rolls up all skills under a single value. Sometimes looping contributes to a win. Certainly, doing it consistently absolutely improves your chances at winning, but should it be measured independently?
Hell. No.
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@knell said:
What is a "skill" in any game, but having the knowledge and the ability to fulfill the win condition of that said game?
In this game, the ultimate goal of the game is to Escape/Kill. Everything you do within the game, should be so that you can achieve said win condition of the game. The purpose of playing any game is to carve out a path to victory - that said, "skill" in this context is defined by whether they have the means to do so.
So if your so-called "skill" is not providing any positive outcome majority of the time, should it actually be considered a skill? If this "skill" doesn't correlate at all with providing victories, should it be considered a skill?
I can claim to have skills because I am in the top 1% of players in the number of tea-bagging I do per match, but unless "tea-bagging" is correlated to the likeliness of winning, should it actually be considered a skill? Similarly, if doing long chases are causing you to lose majority of your matches, is it really a "skill" in this game? If doing 8 hooks per match is causing you to lose majority of your matches, is it really a "skill" in this game?
If I am losing majority of the time in any game, there are 2 things I should be asking myself: 1. Is what I consider "skill" actually a skill in this game? and if it is, then 2. what sort of bad decisions am I constantly making that would completely counteract that skill that I supposedly have?
I just wanted to chime in and say this man, THIS MAN, he understands the self-iterative loop of a true gamer.
I'll take it a step further. I don't blame anyone for my loss unless I play perfectly.
You don't get better if you can't critically evaluate yourself.
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@apathyinc said:
It's not really toxic, but the annoyance factor depends on if they bleed out before EGC finishes. Bleed outs aren't wins, and you don't get any points for them, so for me I'd rather try for a hook and maybe get another chase in. Maybe down them in a location where I can hook them, or they escape, which IDGAF, good on them. But if EGC is going to eat them, no real point in doing the extra work.
Why aren't bleedouts a win? BHVR has said kills, nothing more and nothing less, are the killers objective.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2783097#Comment_2783097
For higher end headphones, you need to provide them more power than a soundcard can typically provide. They'll sound worse than a low or mid range pair if you aren't supplying the necessary power.
Don't know if there is a policy against shopping links, but can you do me a solid and make sure this is the amp product, or comparable? I'm going to go with the headset you recommended and the Dolby digital app, that should cover all my bases.
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@Lordofweed said:
Hey. i would buy a steelseries arctis pro + gamedac or buy a buy a 7.1 surround sound app in the windows Store + a good stereo Headset. Those mentioned 7.1 surround sound apps cost around 15-20 bucks. There are DTS and Dolby Surround. I prefer DTS, because of a higher Bitrate, which makes the sound much better than with the compressed dolby digital app imo.
If you like to hear where a Survivor or the Killer is walking towards, without having to look, i would recommend checking those surround sound apps out.
I'm for this, but can anyone else confirm?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/308163/headset-reccomendations
I love my steel series head phones.
Once upon a time, over a decade ago, Steel series had a minimalist headset with amazing sound, no built in mic, and you could plug the audio cable into either ear, as well as plug another headset into the other ear so someone could listen to what you were listening to.
They stopped making it, and my life has never been the same.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Is budget a concern? I have a set of Beyerdynamic DT1990s running through a THX AAA 789 amp. You'll hear pretty much everything the game will allow you to hear. Can't overcome bad sound occlusion or audio bugs. They also have the added benefit of deleting CoH because you hear the totem from a mile away
Budget is not an issue. What's the point of the amp though? I'm prepared to go hard but that seems like a weird setup for a headset.
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@GaslightGabby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2782002#Comment_2782002
If you Blink a second time for a hit that isn't practically guaranteed you're playing Nurse wrong. If you can't get the hit, don't second Blink.
I main Nurse and I don't use add-ons. Mistakes aren't heavily punished unless you happen to be on RPD/Lery's.
You make it sound like Nurse is always 4k'ing, and that survivors have no input. That's a complete misrepresentation.
There are survivors as familiar playing against Nurse as there are Nurse mains playing her. They don't just give up and let themselves get hit just because the 2nd blink is in range. They juke, they gauge your distance based on orientation and charge time, they've figured out your addons within 3-4 blinks at the beginning of the game, they go out of their way to avoid becoming repetitive and predictable.
I don't think a Nurse main should so blithely boil down her nuances in some attempt to dismiss bugs. Maybe you are a god-nurse and the bugs don't affect you. Feel free to get off your high horse and allow other players to pilot her and voice their concerns about her.
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@GaslightGabby said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2781978#Comment_2781978
If you're guessing as Nurse you shouldn't be playing her...
And Nurse should be punished for missing more if I'm being honest. You make a mistake and you're right back on the survivor after.
Blink bug actually could lose you games. This doesn't do anything to a competent Nurse.
That's not true. You're only right back on them if you're running very specific add-ons. If you double blink and you don't have recharge + distance, they are absolutely outrunning you.
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And even once you get good with her, you will end up disproportionately matched against survivors that can literally listen to her power charge and gauge how far you're going to blink, allowing them to double back and change angles behind LOS with ease.
You can fight entire squads like this, where you can't even get a hit, and when you finally have them trapped they DH.
It's a learning curve and a woof and a half.
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@Junylar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2779192#Comment_2779192
- Oh no, that Bubba is facecamping our teammate, what can we do?!
- Jeez, are you new? Just slam 'em gens and begone, what else can you do!
- Oh no, that Bubba has NOED!
- Jeez, are you new? That was your fault for slamming 'em gens, you should've vacuum cleaned the whole map in search of all 5 totems instead of rushing gens, obviously! Oh, survivors these days...
You have a habit of simplifying things to a point where you can no longer be wrong.
Except you're still wrong. Your hyperbole isn't appreciated. If the first survivor goes down like a potato, you're going to have a bad time. Most of the time that survivor can loop bubba for several gens AND bones. And you can use Detective's Hunch to ear mark the rest and check them when the gens pop.
Stop being lazy.
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@FeelsBadMan said:
If you play killer solely to reach iri 1 for those sweet 1mil bp's you gotta sweat. There is NO way to play 'nice' and still get a 3-4k with 10+ hooks (which is needed to pip) if you don't happen to be a god Nurse (and maybe god Blight).
People sweat cause they are forced to do so by the devs. 8 hooks and a 0k nets you a black pip. Blame the devs, not the players. I am sure most killers (myself included) don't enjoy sweating their asses off either.
As a non-god Nurse I can confirm. I have to sweat. If I'm not running 20% recharge blink the survivors are identifying that and holding W on me around every LOS for the rest of the map.
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@WesCravenFan said:
It is US VERSUS THEM because it is a PvP game.
There are literally two sides.
It is literally "us versus them".
I have no idea why people get offended at this idea.
This. But what isn't helpful is when people speak out proactively for both sides and disingenuous a-holes turn it into a pit-fight.
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Don't.
Just don't.
I know you want to say that my input sounds unhelpful. Just let her go.
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@pizzaduffyhp90 said:
I have to question the devs answer on this saying Twins in high MMR are monsters with there addons. Twins in high MMR get dominated most of the time in high MMR even with the addons that make them better. I've seen so many teams beat them without any challenge not to mention they have the lowest pick rate.
So what exactly is Nurse and Blight to you devs? Are they not monsters in high MMR because Nurse has the lowest kill rates even though she's the "best killer in the game". Blight can get to 5 gens with all 5 charges sometimes all of the gens with his 2 speed addons.
Nurse goes through walls, objects, and has great mobility, Blight can dash across the map, break walls/pallets instantly, and catch people at gens really quickly, and Twins Victor grabs someone can't do anything else unless they throw him on the ground high MMR player will just hold him until Victor has to be called back or gets caught by Charlette and Victor is pretty easy to dodge if you know what you're doing but, a high MMR team will know how to dodge him and will have a more easier time with them rather than against a Blight or Nurse.
Nurse REALLY requires addons to gain distance on survivors depending on the map. Basekit Nurse takes a long time to blink up to someone who is simply holding W. The power recharge/ 3 blink/increased range addons make a huge difference.
Don't get me wrong, I'm concerned they're going to nerf Nurse, but in the case of Twins, the nerfing of the add-ons doesn't really make them worse. It just makes the whole situation and disconnect infinitely more frustrating. Nerfing the Nurse add-ons would hurt, hard.
All three of the killers in this thread should not be nerfed.
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@dictep said:
Imagine if the hatch was visible since the start of the game and keys were basekit and you could use it if you were the last surv. This is exactly the same as facecamp as survivor, ensure one escape. But killers say they do because they can’t do anything else. I would love if killers were bots. Perhaps in few years
You absolutely deserve killer bots.
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@Tubby_Squirrel said:
I don't understand why maintaining an invisible MMR is is important to other killer mains. I just play, if I get a 4k I get a 4k, if I get a 0k I get a 0k.
I'm going to play to the best of my ability, which means I will never camp. Camping at the end game may guarantee a 1k but if I leave the hook there is a small chance at a 2k, Ima go for that.
MORE OVER the killers job is infact NOT to simply kill, the killer's 'job' is to feed the Entity. This is why a 4k is not always a 'Merciless Killer' game. You are allowed the luxury of enjoying your role but your only 'job' is providing sustenance for the Entity. Pleasing your master.
1) We're not interested in our invisible MMR. We're frustrated that if we play well we get paired against bully squads who have a higher potential ceiling because the game favors survivors.
2) Tactical use of camping absolutely contributes to 4k potentiality.
3) at red ranks, you almost HAVE to 4k to get merciless, otherwise I would agree an Entity themed win condition is appropriate. Right now it's not, nor is it intended to be, BHVRs definition for a win does not play well with the games lore.
4) The survivor killer populations are so imbalanced right now that killers are constantly getting feast or famine matches where they fight complete scrubs or abusive squads. Neither is rewarding or allows us to develop our skill. We need appropriate matches and we're not getting them.
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@Chimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2777549#Comment_2777549
I think you can make slinger work pretty good nowadays
I'm done trying to explain the absurdity that is Deathslinger to people who look at him based on their anecdotal experience.
You do you.
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Any 110 speed killers. Sad Deathslinger noises.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
Play anything you want. Who cares what the killer thinks about it?
They don’t ask you permission or your blessing when they put on their sweatiest load out.
You're absolutely right. I've been enjoying my slugathons when I see them Boil Over kids suicide at elevation.
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I know it's only been a day but I'm going to bump for more visibility.
I'm getting some wierd results trying to blink upwards in elevation, places like the 2nd floor of the boat in blackwater swamp feel unreachable unless I'm really far away.
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@Akumakaji said:
Hello everyone,
sometimes I can be a pretty soft-hearted killer, especially if the survivors give up and do the submissive kind of t-bag, not the toxic one (you can tell the difference).
And a few times I tried to tell them to do the Left 4 Dead achievment, but I guess most of the time they are so aggitated that they just wanna leave, maybe not to push their luck and they might have a tome challenge going that needs to see them survive etc.
I know that I won't hold back once I get the chance. So I don't know how to communicate my good intentions. Standing on the hatch has given me some choice names, dropping them near a gen just lets them run away once they wriggle off.
Any ideas? And I know that some older peeps will have the achievment already, as it was way easier in the days of hatch spawning, but still ^^ I wanna help at least one person to get this elusive achievment.
I wish I had gotten you. It's the last achievement that I have to complete and I've tried everything from offering up rare items to the killer at the end, to going total immerse lord. The closest I've gotten is 1 second left on the gate twice against a really competitive Hunter and a really competitive Billy.
Edit: Left 4 dead requires you to go through the gate. :(
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2775309#Comment_2775309
You said your scared for nurse. Implying she will be nerfed. She has been nerfed so many times you can’t nerf her.
Are we not on a thread about a killer who shouldn't, by all rational logic that exists in this universe, be nerfed, but was still nerfed?
Nurse's resume has zero bearing on BHVR's behavior.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2775299#Comment_2775299
Nurse was already nerfed. In fact she was nerfed 5 times
That means absolutely nothing.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
Gee, I wonder why "nobody" plays them...
Better nerf them next patch. At least they might get some update in the future... so in like 6+ months If I woul quess.
F
Their logic in nerfing Twins makes me very nervous for Nurse.
Honestly, their logic in nerfing. Period. Makes me very nervous. I'm still not recovered from my boy Deathslinger.
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I think it's an interesting idea, and maybe it could even work - there is obvious nuance you haven't clarified but it shouldn't be necessary at this point in time.
The problem is no survivor will ever subscribe to it, you are going to get nothing but knee-jerk reactions.
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@Raccoon said:
Did this patch do anything to validation?
I'm still being validated. I have not played enough to determine if it's happening more or less.
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@Munqaxus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2761569#Comment_2761569
That has been proven to be untrue. I kept records of me camping and I was getting around a 3.5 kills to deaths on average. Another forum user did the same thing and had a higher killed to death average than I did.
And there are documented videos of people running killers for 3+ gens. That + Hook time = 5 gens and out.
Why is your incredibly small data pool somehow more valid than everyone else's small data pool, and MATH?
You can just run timers and see it's entirely possible to give a camper only one kill, the biggest factor being the first chase time.
The fact that this wasn't your experience says more about the quality of your opponents than you.
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@nicnc82 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773118#Comment_2773118
I can give my gemertag. They're on my profile. And even stream. Do I get wrecked some games? Of course. But I'm not gonna cry and whine about it. You don't need 4 kills every single game. If you're consistently getting 0 kills, then you're just probably not great at killer especially if you have to tunnel and camp the whole game.
Noone cares that your opinion contradicts the general consensus. What we're talking about is the actual experience.
Noone is asking for a 4k every game, get that disingenuous nonsense out of here. What we're looking for is a meta that isn't completely feast or famine based on how many second chance perks trigger.
Post up the stream, so we can see the quality of the games you're playing. Again, the understood consensus is that because survivors are so well insulated if the Killer wants to be competitive they have to play a certain way. If you're playing at odd hours and only getting potatoes and you can play competitively and still be relaxed, that's great.
But on the off chance that you're actually facing the kind of teams that we're talking about, and you can still succeed while playing nice and chill, you should be sharing that with everyone because you're clearly gods gift to this game.
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@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773115#Comment_2773115
It isn't us vs them and you can't just default to that to escape my point - the concept of "second chance perks" is almost exclusively used in arguments against survivors. So nerfing "second chance perks" would disproportionately affect one side. That's just the truth. You aren't "killing the meta on both sides" if one side is barely affected.
To your second point, I stand corrected about the aura perks in that case. But then in regards to that, exactly how many things can you do with aura perks instead? For example, how would an aura perk help counter tunneling if DS were further nerfed? How would an aura perk help counter camping if BT were nerfed?
DS is one of the few second chance perks that is in a completely fine spot. I don't think that one needs a nerf, it does exactly what it's designed to do.
And again, the game cannot be balanced around the plethora of second chance perks. They encourage tunneling, slugging, and playing as viciously as possible. I'm not saying the game will be balanced with their removal. I'm saying the game can GET balanced with their removal. The second they go, the perk library opens up and tweaks to other perks will actually have meaning. Monsters like Nurse and Blight can be tuned more appropriately. We've hit a power-ceiling that rewards no-one and can only be broken with extremes. I'm proposing the extreme is a nerf, again, to both sides, instead of further escalation.
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@nicnc82 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773029#Comment_2773029
I dont tunnel. I CHOOSE not to ruin someone else's game. And can still get kills.
Oh of course. Post up some videos of your gameplay please.
We would all love to see the secrets to this game you've unlocked with your experience that refutes high-level streamer evidence, comp play, and the general consensus.
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@Fuzzels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773082#Comment_2773082
Ok. That's fair. You have your opinions, I have mine, and we can simply agree to disagree.
However, I really do need to ask: if it's not fun for you, why are you doing it? Why aren't you playing in an "off meta" way that creates more fun for you and by extension the survivors you're against?
Sunk cost fallacy, and I personally believe if I make enough survivors absolutely miserable they'll cry for a meta change too. I can't imagine ignoring health states is fun for anyone. When I play survivor, it's just rote. Pre-drop pallets and force breaks, find new tilesets, eventually take a hit, eventually deadhead for your third health state, eventually get a body block for your fourth health state- make it to COH and heal or end up on hook and rinse and repeat. If our health states actually mattered the chases would have more value and you could balance around that instead.
@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773082#Comment_2773082
This could work if second chance perks weren't a mostly survivor-sided concept to begin with. A vast majority of the meta that killers play don't give them second chances at anything.
So the result is killers keeping their meta with the addition of buffing aura perks, thus destroying solo queue even more than it already has been.
No us vs them here, second chance exists on both sides, and it doesn't matter if the majority rest on the survivor side. It takes two to tango and Killers are playing AROUND those perks. You can make changes, you just have to admit it's a glaring problem.
I'm talking about buffing aura perks for survivors. Alert is a great example of a perk that can be used in a loop to bamboozle a killer. Imagine if it gave 7 seconds of aura reading, imagine the stealth nonsense plays you could make with it then? It would additionally tell a solo they're safe to stay on the gen if they see a killer break a pallet across the map and then move even farther away.
If the meta goes, this game could be fixed.
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@milwaukee354 said:
I had a game against a nurse that ended with the nurse getting first hook in the basement, 4 gens left and the killer decided to proxy camp the survivor, I decided to just quit, I wasn't in the mood for that type of lazy gameplay. I had another game where I had to wait for a demo to find the hatch first before hooking me, because he was afraid I would wiggle off, before any killer mains comment, no I did not have a wiggle build. I just can't figure out why killers are so desperate for 4ks, are the devs giving away cash prices, when did this game become so toxic, can I get a normal game without killers playing like there lives depend on it
So you're shaming killers for playing to win? So cute.
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Bruh. I know. It baffles me.
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@Fuzzels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773029#Comment_2773029
I'm a killer main, so there's that.
And if it's not fun for you, why are you doing it? That makes no sense.
"Cuz I'll lose if I don't!!!!" Ok? And? Who cares dude. You're not playing for money. It's not a professional competitive game. There's no need to win every single match. It's a game meant for fun. If you aren't having fun, what are you doing?
You don't need to slug everyone. It's not a constant thing that needs to be done. If they have BO and you can't reach a hook, sure drop em and slug. But that's not nearly as common as people are claiming.
There's nothing here to unpack except that I disagree with you on all points. You don't get to choose the meta as an individual, you have to play around it. I'm allowed to be competitive, full stop. And the slugging is happening far more often than you think it is, regardless of your personal experience.
@scenekiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773029#Comment_2773029
But then what is the alternative? Don't buff perks at all? Nerf all perks including metas and make them all laughably weak? Remove the SWF option so that strong perks aren't overwhelming, even though a majority of survivor is solo queue? None of these sound practical or good for the game.
This complaining is an issue on both sides of course, not just killer. But because we're talking about Boil Over, let's look at it in those terms: BO was on no killer's radar previously. Now, it has decent use. Why does a perk getting use automatically warrant complaining and nerfing? Or, to be unbiased, we could make the same argument against old Undying. I didn't agree with survivors immediately screaming to nerf that either.
There are occasions that definitely warrant it, i.e. CoH and old DS, but a lot of perk buffs are not game changers. We have killers and survivors both crying out against the "boring" meta, but then what do you propose to do about that if you don't want weak perks buffed?
The alternative is kill the meta completely by nerfing all second chance perks on both sides and considerably buffing aura perks so they additionally become potential mind-game perks and the rest of the perk library while we're at it.
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@Chimp said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773027#Comment_2773027
He can run out of stalk?
Yes. He is hardcoded to tier up a limited number of times.
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@Fuzzels said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2773009#Comment_2773009
You can, sure. However that's not what's happening. So instead of just complaining about it, work around it.
It's ok to be upset about the meta. I get it. But if you aren't going to do anything to actively make it easier on yourself, what exactly are you doing to solve the problem?
You can shout at a wall all day long for being in your way, or you can simply walk around it and continue on with what you were doing
Where have you been? We are working around it. We're slugging more than we ever had, and tunneling more than we ever had. We know it's not fun for you and it's certainly not what we want either.
Hence, the complaining.
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@Chimp said:
imho, I think triskster is the weakest killier rn, since MANY maps hard counter his power, and on controller, his recoil is so horrible, cause it is very hard to make all the small adjustments.
Myers is the only killer in the game who can literally, completely run out of his power.
Completely absurd, and until that is changed he will always be the worst.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2772990#Comment_2772990
Forgot to mention. Out of the 115 I've bled out, and almost all confirmed to have Boil Over/Flip Flop, I've been "reported" 28 times for "taking the game hostage".
Keep track of the number on your profile like a badge of goddamn honor, soldier.
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Your fundamental misunderstanding here is that you can change the meta without an infinite powercreep of second chance perks. Easy to do? Probably not.
But you can.