foxsansbox
foxsansbox
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No, and survivors simply don't understand the full breadth of this nerf.
This is not just a nerf to his ability to secure kills, by increasing his already glaring weakness which is the dreaded 'W' key when the survivor is more aware than a ######### potato. It was a nerf to his killer fantasy. He was a ranged killer who sacrificed movement speed and long chases for surprise and incredibly rewarding skill shots. As a DS main, I've shot people through the holes in Killershack and through sheer finesse managed to maneuver them to the door AND not break my chain in the process, landing the melee hit and giving the survivors a very clear 'Killershack ain't going to save you, hoss,' warning.
That is dead, and with its death BHVR has created another Nurse main.
EDIT: And by the fog as my witness, you survivors are going to regret making me go Nurse.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2569158#Comment_2569158
I mean, that is literally counterplaying any killer ever. Break LOS and you can do a lot, but against a good deathslinger? Zigzagging is just gonna lose you distance faster, at which point he can literally just shoot you faster.
And holding W isnt counterplay to deathslinger, its counterplay to any killer. But once they are within 15 meters, there is nothing survivors can do. If they loop, they will just be shot through a window, so the only counterplay against Deathslinger is literally holding W against a wall and hope you dont get stuck.
That's not really counterplay to Deathslinger's ability, that's counterplay to killers in general.
And dont get me wrong, I can loop a slinger on any map that has walls, but thats more because he is a 110% killer, that doesnt excuse any coinflip mechanics
Also, to the contrary, it only takes 1 braincell to see issues with coinflip mechanics, and it takes at least 3 braincells to see that general counterplay to killers isnt counterplay to any specific killer. Thats like saying holding W and camping pallets while your teammates genrush is counterplay to Myers specifically, when that is literally counterplay against every single killer.
You are:
Discounting the 110 speed when it's suitable for your argument, which is ironic because you use it 3 sentences later.
Discounting missed redeemer shots from ZigZagging
It is a fact that map awareness and holding W hurts killers like DeathSlinger and Plague FAR MORE than Nurse, Wraith, Blight, 115 killers. For someone obsessed with coin flips you really like to pick and choose at your convenience.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2568651#Comment_2568651
A quickscope is 0.15 seconds before you can shoot, at which point the projectile hits you within 0.05 seconds. The fastest possible human reaction is 0.15 seconds, and that is reacting to an instant, not to something repeating.
So yes, humanly impossible to counter.
And no, survivors dont have coinflips, coinflips are moments where your input doesnt matter. A 50/50 isnt neccesarily. And yes, a survivor SHOULD be able to juke anything that directly leads to a health state. Just as a killer SHOULD be able to injure at any given oppertunity they can injure. Which is why killers can still hit a survivor even if they started dropping the pallet. Heck, survivors are even able to juke an m1. It's called spinning. Works less and less the better the killer is, but even m1's are jukable.
If you cannot juke something, your input doesnt matter and there is no interaction. If there is no interaction, it's objectively a boring mechanic. If it's a boring mechanic, it needs changes to be more enjoyable.
You are incredibly disingenuous. The counterplay is the fact that even with Monitor and Abuse, if you are not a potato you can gain tons of distance on DS before he even has the option of shooting you. If you're in the open, greater than 15 meters away, you can additionally use LOS, Zig Zagging, and light feints to dodge the spear. This isn't hypothetical, it is something survivors ACTIVELY do every game I play him, and every game I play against him.
I cannot even count the number of games where survivors who can rub 2 brain cells together are already frolicking off into the fog anytime I approach them, forcing me to spend considerable amounts of time chasing them, and then dependent upon the loop I may be stuck breaking pallets or slow traversing T walls hoping bloodlust kicks in.
Survivors be ridiculously spoiled.
Edit: I changed two words for clarity purposes, as I do not believe you contain the 2 aforementioned brain cells above.
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Redeemer. Across my Ass cheeks.
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As a DS main, don't be cowed by your survivors being uppity. Practice your aim, learn to no scope (And when to no scope), learn to hold when the survivor likes to watch his rearview mirror, and if they start getting cute with you shoot them in the face over small height objects.
Don't let them think being cute is an effective survival strategy. You're a hunter and they're just a bunch of rabbits who don't know they're dead yet.
Post Thought: Don't be afraid to miss. Testing your limits is a good way to figure out how to pull off better shots in the future.
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@gatsby said:
Survivor sided at low skill.
Killer sided at average skill levels.
Survivor sided at high skill.
There’s a reason average Survivors cry for Killer nerfs and Rank 1 streamers cry about Survivors being overpowered.
Surprisingly accurate first response to a sensitive subject. Let's see what the rest of the chuckleheads will do to take this thread downhill.
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@DropdeadPiggy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2066668#Comment_2066668
Ok so anything outside of chase? got it....Also the op sounds like an ass.
OP is absolutely right. I'm a pretty piss poor killer and I've been dumpstering on people. I'm seeing more games with no BT, no DS, unsafe saves, terrible attempts at protection hits. Suicide on hooks, disconnects, you name it. Just take the absolute dredges of the survivor population and I'm seeing them in droves.
I have seen two SWF's that were still very good, but the Randoms have definitely taken a turn for the worse.
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@_HN_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2065393#Comment_2065393
Oh, you mean the others "talk out of my ass without even trying to stay in touch with reality"? The ones that, just like you did, totally handwave basic facts?
Damn, I'll be sure to talk to my horse about thos gems of "opinions" alright.
(btw, you really should use big words like "empirical data" when you obviously cant take into account basic factual data first.
It is clear you're devolving. You can respond and have the last word now. Best of luck to you in the future :)
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@_HN_ said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2065232#Comment_2065232
/facepam
Always painfully cringy when someone keep hammering a point they CLEARLY dont understand.
Just check the post right above your to discover why he is bad instead of making wild guesses.
The guy isn't complex in the SLIGHTEST, there's no 2000IQ plan here. He is very simple and poorly designed.
Cool story bro. I can also check other posts that subscribe to my current opinion about Trickster, right?
I'm not saying he doesn't need some tuning, I'm saying he needs a few weeks to establish a baseline, as it's woefully apparent that the PTB is not a statistically significant stress test.
How dare I be patient and rely on the emergence of more empirical data.
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@CornHub said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2065080#Comment_2065080
So it takes nearly a whole month for people with 1000s of hours in this game to prove a bad killer is decent now?
As opposed to accepting the inverse, that the playerbases rampant egos are justified and that being proficient on one killer means you should automatically be proficient on another?
Yes. It takes nearly a whole month. And that's only for the people willing to really give Trickster a chance and learn his ins and outs. If, after that time, he's still dog tier, he will fall off the face of the earth and the devs will buff him because they'll see that statistic.
They will not buff him because an incredibly small subset of the player population chooses to be obnoxiously vocal on the forums, creating 200 threads that say the same thing.
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@CornHub said:
In a week's time if people haven't unlocked some golden god strat that 4k's every game or even something that makes him decent, what are you gonna say? If in a week's time and you still have the opinion that he isn't bad, I want to see some red rank gameplay.
I will say give it two-three weeks, because you are absolutely generalizing an entire subsection of the community that understands Rome wasn't built in a day.
Or a week.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064873#Comment_2064873
No power CDs limit usability and snowball of very strong powers. They actually have a reason to exist.
I don't why they added half of the delays, conditions, shor usage timers, recoils whatever besides shits and giggles. Trickster has NOTHING he does better than other killers besides beiing new player friendly ranged killer, he has no personallity whatsoever besides that as he's terrible at everything.
I don't want reaslism in DBD, I want well designed powers, perks, maps etc. Recoil on very weak unrewarding to land projectiles isn't one of them that exists mainly to make it more annoying to land shots.
They won't be inconvenienced because his power is so weak that they won't even get a chance to land needed amount of knifes for a hit as any good survivor obliterates trickster on almost any decent tile.
The forum killed my response so I'll be brief. There's too much to unpack when you glazed over my points. In a few weeks the Trickster mains will come out to party with the Deathslinger, Huntress, and Plague mains who understand that these killers require nuanced pilots to be effective.
Full stop.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064873#Comment_2064873
No power CDs limit usability and snowball of very strong powers. They actually have a reason to exist.
I don't why they added half of the delays, conditions, shor usage timers, recoils whatever besides shits and giggles. Trickster has NOTHING he does better than other killers besides beiing new player friendly ranged killer, he has no personallity whatsoever besides that as he's terrible at everything.
I don't want reaslism in DBD, I want well designed powers, perks, maps etc. Recoil on very weak unrewarding to land projectiles isn't one of them that exists mainly to make it more annoying to land shots.
They won't be inconvenienced because his power is so weak that they won't even get a chance to land needed amount of knifes for a hit as any good survivor obliterates trickster on almost any decent tile.
There's a lot to unpack here, but you're ignoring my points and that means this has gone stale. In a few weeks we will start seeing the scary Tricksters. Plague, Deathslinger, Huntress, and Trickster all share commonalities, the biggest one being is that there is a ton of nuance to playing them effectively. They all appear as either A or C tier killers, depending on the pilot.
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Absolutely frustrating, but you are correct that git gud is the name of the game. In a perfect scenario the survivors will have the advantage every time. But the perfect scenario is incredibly rare (even amongst the Sweaty SWF's that have one or two really good loopers), and as a killer you control the single biggest variable to your own success - your play.
Be toxic. Tunnel, camp, harass survivors and BM them. Figure out what makes them tilt and play poorly and bring that same mindset to the next game. Eventually your tunneling will switch to proxying, and beyond that it'll teach you how to bring survivors to you in a way that you can punish those low-ranks for the high risk/reward playstyles they love to shove in your face.
As long as you have a learning mentality you will reach Rank 1 killer and learn that the things survivors do that tick you off are manageable.
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@Hoodied said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064770#Comment_2064770
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y4A5ZJMDDZ6G/doomslayer.png
Its lazily made and GIMP would let me remove doomslayers head so here it is
Deathslayer
Dude, when I'm on a bloody killstreak with Deathslinger popping survivors in the booty with redeemer every 8 seconds this is exactly how I feel. I'm keeping this.
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@Kebek said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064777#Comment_2064777
It's partially a joke.
Don't mix realism with bad design decisions. The recoil has 0 reason to exist as a trickster main will be able to land all the blades anyway or about 90% of them.
It exists purely to annoy players, it has 0 balancing reasoning behind it, especially with how weak each hit is.
You know what exists purely to annoy players? Power cooldowns. I'm not mixing realism with bad design decisions. I literally said it wasn't realistic and Deathslinger benefits from an aesthetic decision, because single-shot doesn't require additional balance.
For Trickster, however, it absolutely is based on balancing the killer. You may not agree with their decision, but you're looney if you think the devs went out of their way to include recoil just for shits and giggles. They were clearly concerned about the small hitboxes and the precision aficionados downing survivors at ludicrous speeds while traversing half-height loops and open territory. To what degree they overkilled it is up for debate.
As for 'realism' - feel free to consult experienced knife throwers so they can tell you that landing that second bullseye is a different kind of beast from landing the first one. While moving. While navigating obstacles. While the target is moving.
Afterthought Edit: You're absolutely right that a 'Trickster Main' will not be inconvenienced. That is good design. The killer has drawbacks and the people who put in the time will be able to compensate appropriately. Sounds very much like Nurse Fatigue, Deathslinger missed shot cooldown/reload, and other trade off mechanics within the game.
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@DrVeloxcity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064320#Comment_2064320
So does this mean that a survivor being chased can earn up to 33.33 points on the generator emblem while being chased? I guess this is good to know. I had no idea.
Most of the time though I haven't seen much of a difference, whether if I'm playing myself or watching a content creator run and loop a killer for extended periods of time. On the end game screen you often don't see anything great on the generator emblem. Maybe silver.
Even I'm not 100% on just how many points can be earned, I'd have to test in a custom game.
Here's my point though: It's painfully easy to hit rank 1 survivor. It's not based on skill. Simply playing immersed, using the information you're presented with and making decisions that lend itself to getting 'ticks' in the checkboxes behavior wants will pip you up. Yes, some games you will be tunneled. On those games you will depip if you do not get good enough to make the killer sweat.
A survivor who makes the killer sweat the entire game may not necessarily pip, but he does have plenty of opportunities to get the points he needs to pip. It's just up to him to play well enough at that point.
There are survivors who will literally drop every pallet and then killer shack loop multiple times because they're just that familiar with the map. They're probably also bringing BT so they can sprinkle some Altruism on the map when the opportunity presents itself. Iri Evader + 1 Unhook + Passive Lightbringer = if a survivor is truly getting up in a killers face and making him miserable he will increase the score of his entire team, including himself.
It isn't as efficient as immersed gen jockeying, and it shouldn't be.
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@Kebek said:
Why don't I have recoil as Deathslinger then ? Are my arms just too strong ?
This a joke?
Deathslinger uses a single-shot rifle. If he was firing consecutively then he would absolutely have recoil to balance the gun.
Choosing not to give a single-shot recoil is an aesthetic choice that has no impact on game balance.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064289#Comment_2064289
It is in australia
Everything is upside down there, even time zones apparently.
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@DrVeloxcity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064274#Comment_2064274
Their evader points can easily be lost though if they go down in a chase regardless of how long the killer chased them for.
Also, I was not aware passive generator emblem points were are a thing. Care to elaborate? I know for a fact that survivors running killers do not get points to their lightbringer (generator emblem). As a result, survivors who can keep killers occupied for very long periods end up getting penalized for not touching generators, although they were doing an equally important job of distracting the killer so that his/her teammates could work on generators.
Taken from a wiki:
Your goal is to gain as many points as possible for this Emblem:
- 0 points: starting value
- 0-100 points: completing Generator Repairs (1 point per contributed percent)
- Co-op repairing a Generator does not award bonus points; points for Generator Repairs are split across all contributing Survivors
- 0-33.333 points: being chased while other Survivors repair a Generator (the maximum gain is multiplied by the Repair percentage progress, ranging from values 0-1)
- 5 points: awarded to all Survivors when a Generator is completed
- 15 points: awarded to all Survivors when opening an Exit Gate
- 20 points: cleansing a Dull Totem
- 5 points: cleansing a Dull Totem mid-chase
- 50 points: cleansing a Hex Totem
- 10 points: cleansing a Hex Totem mid-chase
As you can see, if a person is truly occupying the killer, not only are they boosting the hell out of their own score if they're doing it effectively, they're elevating their team.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064263#Comment_2064263
Go read the last line of his post and get back to me.
I did go back and read it, look at my edit - which was made several seconds after I posted.
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Survivors who occupy killers well already are rewarded.
- Passive Gen Emblem Points
- Evader Points
- Bold points if they're using the right items/obstacles
- But the most important reward - they tilt the killer and increase their teams chances of winning
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2064217#Comment_2064217
Why don't you read the bottom of posts?
Because he lost my attention with the near infantile level of crying.
Edit: Also it's not even April yet, big yikes.
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@Yords said:
survivor main btw I am sik of all of this garbage that this game has been brought into. Look at what the devs did to wraith, he is absolutely worthless nwo, I can't believe that they did this to him. THen there is the trickster who is also garbage but a lil hot ngl. They even nerfed DS this patch, like wth? Do you really want me to play without it!!?!? LITerally eveyr killer at red ranks runnels and camps the survivors which is prety op btw and yyou have to run BT. RIP DS, the only perk in the game that was perfectly balanced but the devs nerfed for no reason other than a bunch of killer maynes whinning about it instead of actually getting good. Seriously, this was the absolute worst patch ever made to this game. killers are to OP and then then just get another buff wow so dumb
as a player wit h 2000+ hours who plays both sides the same goodbye, never coming back to this trashy game or the forums JAHJKHh ahi ugsd gag sagfgfhfgh April fools btw kgiopg gj aiopghi hghf
Why do you require attention from the same community you claim you're leaving?
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@Tricks said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2062714#Comment_2062714
I think they already made the movie of this thread:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VDvgL58h_Y&list=PL3E529A735D626B46
I totally expect some trolls to give this post a hard time and that's all fine and well. But if they're the same people who go to Tunneling or DS threads to ######### and moan and somehow still missed the point of this thread, well, then I just feel bad for those players :)
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@MeltingPenguins said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2062310#Comment_2062310
tunneling shouldn't be perceived as 'valid', by all means. even in-universe, the entity's ought to be annoyed by all the hopeless, annoyed and infuriated survivors. it's like a diet of rotten lemons in-universe.
out-of-universe: lbr, as far-fetched as it sounds, but tunneling, camping and slugging ultimately result in long Qs because people leave the game. there is a flux of new players, but a good chunk leaves for good because the game is just frustrating all around. (the lore is nice though, mostly, which is pretty much the sole reason i'm staying, personally)
The game is absolutely frustrating, and the community loses killers to the same kind of tactics, but on the Survivors side. Like SWF's running Keys, Flashlight Brigades, and other hitsquads that run around like they're in a daisy field instead of a life or death situation. Those tactics too are valid, regardless of killer complaint.
At the end of the day the Devs have access to infinitely more information than we do, and for all we know they've already done cost analysis of different changes to the meta and how fast their population is or isn't dwindling. The recent DS nerf alone is indicator enough that tunneling is not only allowed, it's encouraged when the situation calls for it.
Edit: I don't know how to quote.
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Tunneling isn't scummy. It is a valid, often effective tactic that killers can deploy with mixed success. Likewise, survivors have tools and strategies that that they can deploy to counter and even take advantage of tunneling, again, with mixed success.
Some of my best games as killer incorporate tunneling to create target switching opportunities and some of my best games as Survivor involve my perk Kindred literally doing all the work and allowing my team to 3 man escape against a very thirsty Leatherface.
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Y'all doing it wrong.
- Embrace your weakness, room for improvement is never something to get anxious over or feel bad about
- Go watch professional play and reliable streamers, Otzdarva, OhTofu, Ascension, are some I can think of off the bat that are phenomenal on multiple killers
- Dissect the meta. Don't just learn it, understand it and abuse it (And then Monitor if you're feeling punny)
- The advice you get here is going to be incomplete, WATCH VIDEOS, you wanna know how that Pyramid head scores those double hits on hook? You want to land clutch Deathslinger shots on the short loops with pallets survivors abuse? Want to see how to stack up exposes properly on ghostface? There are literally videos for all of this. IMPORTANT: You can't just understand the game and play well with any killer, you need to practice that killer. Religiously at first, and then branch out to other killers
- Grow
- Watch your anxiety transform into palpable, child-like joy as you realize you're consistently making survivors ######### their pants and lose their minds
I started this game three months ago and I am a rank 1 killer and survivor now. I sincerely believe I spent more time studying then actually playing. You can be out of your mind competitive and still not tilt or get frustrated. Every single match is different, there is so much data to parse and learn from. Go get 'em.
Edit: Fixed typos and improved clarity.