foxsansbox
foxsansbox
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@Impose said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2608253#Comment_2608253
This is a horrid post rofl. I'm 4k hours into this game and Boons are new. There aren't subtle ways to handle boon totems more effectively. You either allow them to happen, or you chase the boon location and lose the game. It's that simple.
So you didn't see my other post where I just described such an example? Rough, man.
Also, with your 4k hours, you may be doing things you don't even think about that haven't dawned on OP yet. Again, I get that they're strong and they need some tweaking, but they're not broken. Broken is a very strong description for when something is completely unmanageable and Boons are not.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2608253#Comment_2608253
Now let me tell you from a 2k hour perspective. They're incredibly broken and unfair.
The fact they're infinite. The fact it makes health states obsolete. It makes slugging obsolete. The fact it makes jugging obsolete.
Yeaaaaah no. I certainly dislike them, they certainly need some changes, but they aren't 'broken'.
Also, they don't make health states obsolete, you hit a survivor once, you hit a survivor twice and they go down. I know you're prone to exaggerating but makes for a compelling argument hyperbole does not.
For example: Do you see the survivor lose their scratch marks when they run into the zone? That generally means at least one survivor is running both boons, which means at least one survivor is not running the 6 or so meta perks, this means their hook game is going to be very weak and you can trade that slugging and juggling for some very tasty tunneling and proxying.
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@WeenieDog said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2608249#Comment_2608249
But that same reasoning, it wasting too much time to find someone, is the same reason people camp or tunnel them. Because they may not find them again, so we meet the same conclusion, 'I'm going to camp them... I have to.'
And this isn't to say they can't or shouldn't. I'm just trying to say the whole "unhealthy for the game" has been said to death and people still do the unhealthy thing even before what they're talking about was in the game.
That's too much of a reach for me man. There are a million reasons for killers to proxy, tunnel, and camp, and survivors making clever use of immersion (Without the boon) isn't really high on the list of egregious offenders.
Also, I'm not going to victim blame survivors for playing well. There's plenty of other things to blame them for, and you need absolutely zero of those things to justify camping and tunneling.
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@Regulus47 said:
They're not that good... it takes ages to set them up and the killer can break them in literally one second and can hear exactly where they are. Leaving no scratch marks doesn't really help when you're already in a chase, and healing isn't that good when insta down killers like cannibal are so common. Although the healing one is definitely the better one and it really helps against killers like wraith and legion and trickster who get everyone injured easy.
I wanna see your devotion level too, for going to the extreme in the exact opposite direction.
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@Kira15233 said:
Honestly dudes, how can boon totems be fair when everyone uses them? It's unbelievable how OP they are 😪
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9AER899BY760/20539796-6eea-41c2-991c-1f45a9e5b011-7e2.png
You haven't hit your first devotion yet. They're certainly annoying but you have a lot more of playing to do before you start realizing the subtle ways you can handle them more effectively.
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@WeenieDog said:
So, how does that work in situations where people are jumping in lockers to avoid the aura? Is locker aura blocking also unhealthy?
Heavy stealth has already been beaten down to a point where its practically a throw ( and I personally like it like that). And that's why I'm surprised how many people consider it toxic for survivors to play in a very aggressive playstyle.
When a survivor is good at being immersed and it forces the killer to spend extra time looking for them, or to waste precious time on a hail-mary gen kick that you quickly tap to kill the regression, it can be extremely strong for the survivors.
I don't think you'll find the community complaining about that kind of stealth, it's more often reserved for the survivor that didn't contribute anything, or failed to provide relief to their teammates by spending some time in a chase when others were on their last hook.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2608214#Comment_2608214
Because I'm pretty sure it's an unintended feature.
Just like how Blessing a Hex totem doesn't cancel DS.
Let the killers enjoy some unintended features. We've got it rough right now.
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@Pulsar said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=estVu9JHLOI&ab_channel=PulsarGaming360
Blessed totems still count for Undying aura reading.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/Y0BDTYM3V88F/undying-png.png
To my knowledge, Blessing a Dull Totem takes away a stack from Thrill of the Hunt and does not trigger Trapped Hex perks. Ergo, they are considered a different entity to normal Dull Totems.
Why does Undying still reveal aura's if they aren't Dull Totems?
Why. Why take this away from the killers :(.
There's no question mark because this is rhetorical and you're a damned monster.
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I choose you, abominable snow man!
Yeti, go!
But in all seriousness, it could be cool if it was Krampus or something.
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Not only does she counter Boons and Iron Will, I don't think anyone mentioned here that she also counters Empathy and Self-Care. Which I unfortunately still commonly see, even when I'm playing killers I know I'm at a higher MMR with.
Edit: Or did I mean Botany? I don't know, you get what I mean.
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@Pulsar said:
Me and my friends just joke that our matches are inconsistent because if we all escape one match, but then all die in the one following, it's a 50% escape rate, meaning it's perfectly balanced to BHVR.
That is entirely another different, yet complimentary experience to what I originally described. I do believe that has happened to me as a killer as well.
Personally, I'd like to believe if I could just find that weakest link a little faster I can stomp the inevitable 4 man escape matchup too I Ain't going to let BHVR crystal ball my games.
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@ShErMaDeRmA said:
Survivors need to understand how lame, lemme get my reading glasses, BMing , Borrowed time Blocks, Dead Hard, SWF, Unbreakable, Boons, BNP, Gen Rush, hit validation is
You forgot the clicky clicky.
It normally does not bother me, but I encountered a survivor recently who had a literal clicky macro. The kind that makes it go on and off like a ######### machine gun. My sound card almost threw up.
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@ThiccBudhha said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2606049#Comment_2606049
I actually quit Battlefield because I was sick of the journey from spawn every time I died. Not even cumulatively. Just one of those suckers was enough to annoy me at a certain point.
CoD purposely spawns you on top of people specifically to avoid that complaint. And that is probably why its worst selling games is leagues above Battlefields best to be honest. People like to play games, the shocking discovery of the century. I am surprised they don't like to not play the game.
Yeah, it's not the games, its you.
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@IronKnight55 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2605582#Comment_2605582
At least killers can still play the game... I still have more fun getting "gen rushed" as killer than I do getting camped as survivor. The killer can literally keep you from playing the game. I think they mentioned trying to come up with a solution pretty recently. It
I've never heard someone in COD or Battlefield complain about the cumulative time spent respawning. Never. Not once.
This whole "It prevents us from playing the game." complaint needs to go the way of the Dodo. You are playing the game. You are playing the game on the hook. Just because you are not currently providing input does not mean you aren't playing the game.
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@Huge_Bush said:
Hello everyone, Huge Bush here messaging you all from my glorious hospital bed that just refuses to be comfortable for me and let me have one nights good rest. A couple of weeks ago, I can down with what I though was just some cold which morphed a week later to what I can only describe as “almost death”.
It wasn’t pretty. I couldn’t make it out of bed for more than 60 seconds. Going potty was like trying to take the One Ring to the fires of Mordor, only with Nemisis chasing me and Bubba waiting at the mouth of the volcano. It was terrible.
Im finally out of the darkness, but not out of the clear. Turns out I have/had Covid-19 that ravaged my lungs and has given me pneumonia. In order to not suffocate in my sleep, I have to keep oxygen tubing snaking through my nose and make sure these kind medical professionals keep checking on me while I sleep(if this stupid bed would let me, argh!).
Anyways, I know I’m not a big presence on the forums, I was just bored and wondered if some of you can give me the rundown on what went on in the world of my favorite game that I love to hate/hate to love. Was the event just another meh moment? Were the new cosmetics nice? Did Claudette get anything new? Are boom totems as broken as everyone was crying they were going to be? Which killer is on the current survivor nerf target?
Someone post some pics of Dbd memes (I like the one with Steve and bubba in the basement). Cat and cow pics are acceptable too.
I don't have memes to contribute. Boons are both not game breaking and still incredibly disheartening for Killers to manage. I expect you to update this thread when you've fully recovered.
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@ukenicky said:
I've said it before and I will not stop preaching this until something is done about it but: it is bs when a killer can face camp the first person they down and guarantee they die and then go on to insta down someone else after all the gens are completed with NOED.
Honestly if they use Bloodwarden there's a good chance they could secure even more kills but just face camp + NOED is usually enough to get 2 kills guaranteed which is enough for many killers as they are gaining MMR.
That is complete bs and something needs to be done about it. Something needs to be done about a survivor who gets face camped because it's a miserable experience. This is coming from someone who plays both sides.
I understand camping in the middle or at the end of a match but using the face camp + NOED strategy is bs since survivors can't do all the gens and cleanse all the totems before the first person dies on the hook. That isn't fair and you know it.
They can, if you don't loop like a potato. That first survivor can drop 20+ Pallets early on most killers and that's more than enough time to bang out some totems, especially if you bring Detective's Hunch.
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@Dino7281 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/291579/killer-survivor-sided
Low MMR -> Killer sided
Avarage MMR -> balanced, but depends on killer
High MMR -> Survivor sided, unless you play top 3 killers
Tournament level -> Survivor sided, always.
This is about as accurate as it gets.
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@Fuzzels said:
First, before anyone hits me with " so it's ok because you can avoid it?" no. Being called slurs, or being told to off yourself, or whatever else is not ok.
However, you have an answer to it.
Simple af. Turn off your game chat if you can't handle mean words from a stranger on the internet. It's real easy and only takes a few clicks.
If you don't want to turn your chat off, then you have no right to complain about it. You've got an easy fix to the issue, so by not taking that fix you are allowing the issue to exist.
Im not saying it's ok that people are toxic. It's not ok. Not in any sense. But if you can't handle it without breaking out in tears and coming to cry on the forums, just turn your chat off and don't ever worry about it again.
Even if this was a viable solution, and not victim blaming, which it isn't to the former and is to the latter, you're forgetting an obvious problem here.
What if I want to ######### engage in healthy chat post game? Not all players are toxic, I regularly talk with my opponents afterwards when there is something worse discussing. Stop telling us to turn off a feature that has a valid use on your crusade to be the ultimate victim blamer.
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@Swoopie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2597604#Comment_2597604
This is all true my guy. Only the biased killer mains that are trash at the game wouldn’t agree. The real manbaby is Tru3tunn3l and his delusions.
Aaaaaaand there goes your hammy. I told ya man.
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@Vampwire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2600665#Comment_2600665
Are you going to refute what I said or just keep trying to discredit me through strawmaning?
You have no intention of being receptive, stop pretending dude. You also don't know what strawman means.
Good pallet drops, Micro jukes (And no i'm not referring to the generic ZigZagging you all cry about, i'm referring to faking windows, and committing to windows when it's unexpected), and more importantly, developing a sense in the first few shots for the kinds of shots the Deathslinger likes to make are key to making him miss. If you make him miss even once at mid range, you are getting to long range and perhaps even farther away.
Lets not act like Deathslinger makes 100% of his shots, as someone before me has already posted video proof that even when a Deathslinger aims REALLY well the game will deny him.
If you get close enough to Deathslinger that you feel like you can't dodge his shot, than you made a mistake well before he made his shot. That's the point. Of all the killers in this game, he suffers from 'W' counterplay the MOST. And even after he closes the distance survivors can make clever use of crouching, pathing, and pallet fakes to make him miss. They can also take hits for each other and break the chain for each other. Just because he made a good read and shot you regardless doesn't mean he automatically win's 90% of his close encounters. He worked to develop that skill, survivors should be expected to work a bit (And gasp, perhaps play him a bit) to understand how to beat him.
Even if you refuse to be an above average player, all a bad survivor has to do is identify a single pallet structure that forces the Deathslinger to break the pallet and you will waste 30+ seconds of his time as you skip across the map to the next structure. This isn't rocket science. There's several structures like this on almost every map.
Edit: So many survivors are like 'I CANT LOOP DS PLEASE NERF.' Did y'all forget you can abandon the loop and go to the next one during his reload or his pallet break? Big yikes lazy boys.
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@Vampwire said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2600214#Comment_2600214
Deathslinger was never weak. Being able to get downs in 90% of all scenarios more than makes up for map pressure. Deathslinger only lost because of the player being bad with him. Never because survivors did anything to outplay him. Playing against old Deathslinger was just hoping that he missed and the chase goes on for a little longer.
Tell me you never played Deathslinger without telling me you never played Deathslinger.
That or you're an obvious troll. Good survivors had plenty of tools, even up close, to extend chases and DeathSlinger downs.
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@Mileena_Kahn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2599001#Comment_2599001
Bruh, it’s not something the killer has to or needs to know, I’m talking about how you’re already at a disadvantage just by playing solo que. It just makes everything harder. But god forbid you play a SWF right?
Yes lol. God forbid we get our third SWF in a row, full of macro clicking, tea bags at every pallet, no matter how clearly survivor sided the loop was, and obnoxious play that was clearly meant to tilt us, whether or not we actually tilted.
Killer's don't owe you anything, and they're certainly not thinking 'Maybe they're a solo queue so I should play a bit differently.'
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@Mileena_Kahn said:
I’ve played solo que for most of my day and have noticed that myself and my teammates have been tunneled and camped in almost every match. The crazy part is that the camping starts At the beginning-middle of the game which makes no sense, I could understand if it was endgame then yeah… cause the killer has no other option. But players like this make the game extremely boring. I’ve noticed it’s mostly the nemesis players that do this. Keep in mind it’s SOLO QUE, so there’s no telling who’s going for the save, who should stay on what gen etc.
Keep in mind it's Solo que? Gee, how the hell would the killer know that?
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2598971#Comment_2598971
"Say other person is wrong, refuse to elaborate"
There are literally several threads on the three most recent pages where this has been covered, in depth, to death, by people who actually play Deathslinger.
It is not my burden to reeducate you, simply because you're too lazy to read.
Edit: When people use the macho man image I never understand the message. Is that really how you see yourself when you say something stupid?
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2598965#Comment_2598965
Yeah, and in 2019 when the nerf dropped people bitched and moaned until they finally realized its not that bad
No, still dumb comment, I get that you're a broken record but you're wrong.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2598749#Comment_2598749
Because the moment something requires a higher skill ceiling, no matter how slight, people will just give up and refuse to adapt
Dumb comment: Example, Nurse.
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@beatddb said:
Now that dead hard got the hit validation and many players are feeling robbed out of their hits, what do you think about Dead Hard giving endurance during the dash instead of invencibility? Killers could still hit you, you'd get the speed boost but would need to mend after. Considering Dead Hard is easily on the top 5 best perks for survivors, I think this would be a fair trade.
What do you think?
Honestly... I kind of like that idea? It's wonders beyond the horrible hit validation making Killers feel like they're swinging wet noodles.
But follow up question, would the Killer then be expected to wipe their blade? That could be contentious.
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It irks me that the d in 'Death' isn't capitalized.
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@Momentosis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2598409#Comment_2598409
Ad hominem as #########
Sometimes you can tell when others are no longer arguing in good faith and you move past the pleasantries, but I thought that was obvious as my ad hominem /shrug.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2596696#Comment_2596696
Since you dont seem to understand, ill keep things short by replying short:
"He does lose distance even when doing this" Assuming survivors still run in a perfectly straight line, otherwise you gain distance, do the maths You're zoning, so they are obviously adjusting their path.
"You, as a survivor are left in almost the exact same position as before." No, because constantly ADS'ing in a means to zone a survivor actually makes you lose distance, while ADS'ing around corners give you an unexpected shot.
"In the open, you should be Fd anyways" Even against a Bubba, you can do something to avoid getting instadowned as it takes 1 second with gained distance to find the nearest tree, locker or pallet. Even against a Trickster, who thrives out in the open, you could still last long enough to force Trickster out of knives. Against a Nurse you could run back into her. Against a Spirit, you could walk, crouch or run in the opposite direction to confuse the killer enough to make an escape. Literally any killer on the roster, there is something you can do to avoid being hit or downed even out in the open. It might not gain you distance, but it gains you quite a lot of extra time if you can pull it off. Deathslinger is the odd one out here.
"Because Slinger's projectile is so thin, minor movements from the survivor at medium range can absolutely evade your shot." But with a projectile so thin, you also dont see which direction it's going untill it's already too late. You can dodge a huntress hatchet because you can see it and see where it goes. Cant do that with slinger. So again, Slinger missed, survivors didnt evade. Let alone that hit verification isnt a thing on projectiles yet.
"I completely disagree with what you said about the attacker needing to have the responsibility of predicting their opponent, this literally gives "free evasion". Both roles should have to predict what the other is going to do, period. Putting that all on the attacker is hypocritical." Not what I said. I said "predicting the opponents movement TO DEAL A HIT must always lie at the person being able to deal damage". Context matters. Predicting when your opponent attacks is a different thing, but acting to avoid a hit requires the person dealing a hit needing to predict. If there is no prediction from the attackers point, there is no counterplay from the defendants point. No counterplay from hits in a game where hits matter quite a lot is a problem on its own.
"This garbage of "the opponent's input doesn't matter" is complete and utter bullshit. Any Slinger player, could tell you 100% that a survivor that knows what they are doing is way harder to hit and can lead you on a way longer chase consistently compared to a survivor that doesn't know what they're doing."
I'd like to point out that you stated that they are harder to hit and lead you on longer chases consistently, which is a common thing against 110% killers in general, rather than saying their input mattered against Slinger's power. No, there is no counterplay against Slingers power, there was only counterplay against Slinger being a 110% killer. And there lies the issue, your input doesnt matter as a survivor, Slingers input does.
"It only ever tried to cater to survivors that don't know what the [BAD WORD] they're doing, as so many [BAD WORD] things in this pile of trash of a game do."
Want me to give a list of things that were changed to cater to killers who didnt know what they were doing? Window blockers were added 1 year before bodyblocking an unhook was changed. Pallets were changed 2 years before Dying Light was. Killers recieved consistent buffs the first 2.5 years of the game, where survivors were consistently nerfed. And now there is a position where you cant really nerf survivors anymore without creating a powercreep. And killers cannot really recieve consistent buffs anymore without a powercreep.
"If i hear a single [BAD WORD] arguing from "FUN" when the discussion is about balance I'm gonna flip every single table in the universe with fury. How can you not get it through your skulls already that fun is subjective. I had a lot of fun facing Deathslinger precisely because, if I was constantly and consistently avoiding his shots, that that meant that I was 100% in the slinger player's head and I understood what he was going to do. This is the most advanced form of counterplay that exists."
DBD is a party game, fun matters. You cant expect every player to master every single killer just so they can play survivor. Doesnt work like that.
"The nerf to DS was massively impactful, what the [BAD WORD] are you on about?! It literally means you can no longer save your teammate in the killer's face cuz you have a shield?! It was not about annoyance. It was about the survivors being able to do pretty much everything to advance their objective and still have a safeguard. it's a balance issue, not an annoyance issue."
Impactful? In the highest ranks, the DS escape rate was 47% when it was 48% before, that isnt impactful. If it was a balance issue, you would see the escape rate of DS drop very significantly. 1% change isnt that significant. Why do you think DS didnt recieve changes for 2 years? Because from a balancing perspective, it was slightly below 50% escape rate across all tiers(both cumulatively and seperately). That's literally the definition of balanced. It was 100% an issue of annoyance. Because if you slugged someone with DS, even if they used unbreakable, they wasted time. If they did gens and you slugged them from there, they lost time. If they hopped into a locker, sure, they would gain some time, but that was the only way to gain time with DS, and people still do this. If it was a balancing issue, you would see DS have an escape rate of 60% before it's changes and an escape rate of 48-52% after it's changes.
You need to format your nonsense better or you need to actually keep it short when you say it's going to be short.
But much like your arguments, you're disingenuous through and through :(
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When someone posts this manbaby I can only assume they're really reaching.
Don't pull a muscle.
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@Alionis said:
I'm surprised how literally no-one got the point I was trying to make.
I don't give a damn about basement bubbas. If you're such inclined, camp away. If standing still for 2 minutes is fun to you, go ahead.
My point was that it would be nice if my fellow survivors could pay a little bit of attention to the basement location and ideally try to avoid going down close enough to it, that Bubba can take them down there. That's it.
This is merely a strategic suggestion, as it seems that every time I play with a basement cannibal, my fellow survivors seem intent to go down right atop the basement stairs.
Dude this forum is not filled with the brightest. The people who did understand your post went 'Mmm.', nodded, and moved on. Everyone else still remaining constitutes the dregs of DBD.
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Jill's.
Because it's literally awful and makes zero sense. Did she get kicked in the balls?
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@NekoTorvic said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2596273#Comment_2596273
Slinger used to take 0.25 seconds to aim and the same amount of time to stop aiming, meaning it takes him half a second to do the whole action. When he's ADSing he moves at 60 something % movement speed, i forget the actual number. He does lose distance even when doing this, and he cannot aim 3 times per second, which would be inefficient anyway. That's just not how Deathslinger players play. Could he zone you by ADSing? yes, you'd need to make a read depending on your situation. Can he still do it? Yes, he can but now he doesn't even need to stop ADSing to zone you. You, as a survivor are left in almost the exact same position as before. This change has fixed nothing, and I'd argue there wasn't even anything to be fixed.
Outside of this ridiculous scenario which barely happens and isn't effective anyway: In the open, you should be Fd anyways, but you can still be tricky with your movement to throw the slinger off. Generally speaking you should know slinger will try to shoot you as you'll make a corner, but that also depends on your distance from him. On tiles, he might fake his shot or he might commit to the shot as you're making the corner and you can use that info + your own understanding of how slinger plays to make a read.
Because Slinger's projectile is so thin, minor movements from the survivor at medium range can absolutely evade your shot. At short range, like 5m or less. sure. past that and you really have to make a read on whether or not the survivor is gonna have a twitchy finger. I completely disagree with what you said about the attacker needing to have the responsibility of predicting their opponent, this literally gives "free evasion". Both roles should have to predict what the other is going to do, period. Putting that all on the attacker is hypocritical.
There was never such a thing as "free hits" with Slinger. This garbage of "the opponent's input doesn't matter" is complete and utter bullshit. Any Slinger player, could tell you 100% that a survivor that knows what they are doing is way harder to hit and can lead you on a way longer chase consistently compared to a survivor that doesn't know what they're doing. The problem is that if you can't run a killer for 5000 billion minutes while the killer's skill is completely useless against you then survivors scream that there's "nO cOuNTeRpLay!!!!".
I absolutely disagree with you that the nerf was needed. it addressed nothing. it accomplished nothing. it made the killer a drag to play. And it only ever tried to cater to survivors that don't know what the ######### they're doing, as so many ######### things in this pile of trash of a game do.
If i hear a single ######### arguing from "FUN" when the discussion is about balance I'm gonna flip every single table in the universe with fury. How can you not get it through your skulls already that fun is subjective. I had a lot of fun facing Deathslinger precisely because, if I was constantly and consistently avoiding his shots, that that meant that I was 100% in the slinger player's head and I understood what he was going to do. This is the most advanced for of counterplay that exists.
The nerf to DS was massively impactful, what the ######### are you on about?! It literally means you can no longer save your teammate in the killer's face cuz you have a shield?! It was not about annoyance. It was about the survivors being able to do pretty much everything to advance their objective and still have a safeguard. it's a balance issue, not an annoyance issue.
I tire of responding to your nonsense and I have better things to do.
"If i hear a single [BAD WORD] arguing from "FUN" when the discussion is about balance I'm gonna flip every single table in the universe with fury. How can you not get it through your skulls already that fun is subjective. I had a lot of fun facing Deathslinger precisely because, if I was constantly and consistently avoiding his shots, that that meant that I was 100% in the slinger player's head and I understood what he was going to do. This is the most advanced for of counterplay that exists."
He doesn't get it man, and I don't think he will.
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@Predated said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2596402#Comment_2596402
Ah yes, because you need to play every single killer for 50 hours or more if you want to play survivor. You dont choose the killers you face.
Besides that, 50/50's are literal coinflips, and thus bad, and those already happen at 10 meters distance. Let alone that I am not even talking about latency and hitboxes here. Because survivors could have dodged from their perspective, while still being hit(case in point: https://www.twitch.tv/predated1/clip/BlatantHealthyNikudonPJSugar ignore the RNN filter issues, yeah, I know I didnt actively dodge, nor used DH, but again, from my perspective, it was gonna be a MISS since he wasnt aiming at where I was going, but where I was)
"You and the types of survivors that complain about the killer shows the lack of knowledge you REALLY have with him, He's 110% with a 24 meter terror radius (Before nerf) and without monitor. he was decent in a hands of a average killer main, and a Semi-better huntress in a hands of a Actual slinger main.. Hell i even rated him higher than huntress at one point,"
Killer main, actually(I tend to play survivor with friends or when I want to try some ######### out, but mostly play killer), and no, I have the knowledge of Slinger. Thing is, that doesnt excuse coinflips. Huntress is quite a lot slower considering she needs lockers to reload, and doesnt have coinflip mechanics. Let alone that Slinger could fake and then coinflip. Survivors wont know the difference. Just because a killer isnt strong, doesnt excuse coinflips.
"The ONLY nerf he really Needed in terms of nerfs was a terror radius, THAT'S it. no other changes needed, his quickscope was fine as it stands.. People just don't like to Verse killers that can punish them like slinger can.."
Coinflips arent punishing mechanics. Heck, often there wasnt even anything to punish. You were literally being "punished" for nothing. Doctor is a punishing killer, if you stay at a loop too long, he's gonna predict your pathing and shock you optimally, that's punishing. If you dont go to the nearest loop and keep running in front of a Trickster, that is punishing. Not being able to do ######### when you're 8 meters away? That's not punishing, that's bad design.
"Technically. you can Argue that michael has the Lowest TR of all the killers, But people don't complain about him due to the fact he can Only m1.."
Except Michael literally has the biggest punishing addon in the entire game, which even recieved a buff, yet, not a lot of people complaining about that one either(tombstone piece deserves complaints, but that one is indeed a bit too strong for an addon). So its not punishing mechanics that people complain about.
"Huntress also has the lowest when it comes down to TR, 12 meters with Monitor but even then she has a 40m Lullaby.. Again.. if they wanted to nerf him, shoulda only been a TR nerf.. this nerf was in no way shape or form, I stopped playing him due to the fact that i have to pre-aim all my shots against survivors in which case they can just flare out, Still mad that they nerfed him for Zero reason whatsoever to please survivors..."
Guess we should get old Decisive Strike back then, because they only nerfed it to please killers. Guess we should bring back old BNP, because it was only nerfed to please killers. Guess we should bring back old window mechanics, because window blockers were only placed in to please killers. 'GoOd PlAyErS cOuLd DeAl WiTh OlD wInDoWs' is not really a good argument for the old window mechanics, right? So why do you think its a good argument for coinflip mechanics?
You can cry coinflip until the cows come home. People who actually play Deathslinger aren't gong to fall for that disingenuous branding.
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The sheer number of players who feel like his spear was undodgeable at the midrange is actually mind boggling. Like they've never piloted him and watched other survivors dodge those same shots over and over and over and over.
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Dude. A better post on the same topic is literally still on the front page of the General discussions: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/290609/a-calm-discussion-on-why-i-feel-deathslingers-nerf-was-too-far#latest
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It appears to be back. So lets let this thread die. I was prepared to kick up a shitstorm but all is well.
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It's not. Stop creating these wasteful threads.
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@[Deleted User] said:
Maybe the comments escalated.
Not from everything I've seen. And also, what? Punish the comments then, not the topic.
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Not ######### cool.
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@Nobody_TM said:
This data was taken from a released article dated 1 year & four days to the posting of this discussion, and considering nothing was done or changed from Deathslinger until September 28th 2021 in patch 5.3.0, I feel this is an accurate representation of Calebs abilities & popularity. At the time of this article, less people were playing Bubba & Nurse, than Caleb. This is to say, he is a niche killer; and frankly I was fine with that. I didn't expect anything in terms of making some of his useless add-ons more viable or perhaps making his Irediscents, alright. But Deathslinger to me always hit that nice sweetspot, of a killer who was not too strong, but powerful in the right scenario. Likewise his average kill rate reflects that in no way was he overpowered, or underperforming. He was sitting just at the threshold of 55% kill rate, otherwise known as a draw between survivors & killers. Isn't that something you should strive for? Anyhow, before I go more into the problems of nu-Deathslinger, I'd like to talk about my perspective on the Old Deathslinger.
Caleb Quinn (Deathslinger) was the Perfect Side-grade to Anna (Huntress)
Think about the Philosophy of use between these two Characters. Its honestly more well thought out than perhaps you'd be willing to admit. Huntress has 5 hatchets to start. Realistically, they have no cap on their range & are only limited by the environment & skill of the player. Huntress is able to get downs that other killers can only dream about; over pallets, several meters away, and still have a few more rounds of ammunition before a brief pause to reload. Her Terror radius is huge factoring in Lullabye, though this layer of confusion & information often brought its own advantages, & considering the range & potential down, didn't serve as that much of an impediment, realistically, despite being a 110% killer.
Caleb on the other hand, cannot down at range or over pallets. His range likewise, is limited to 18 meters, and hitting a shot let alone getting a successful reel on an 18 meter shot was rare if its ever happened to anyone at all. His shot took time, his reel took time, and a hit would take time. To balance these disadvantages, he was given what Huntress did not have; an element of stealth & reload on-the-go (though limited to one shot at a time). At 24 meters of terror radius, Calebs glaring disadvantage was eased, as he could close distance quickly and be well within the range to use his power. There were counters for this of course, SWF communication (as DS is very tall and easy to spot) and the almighty spine chill. But it did its job and allowed Caleb breathing room to use his power. Likewise, his unlimited ammo & 1 shot capacity were a give & take. True you were always in the fight, but a missed shot had its own consequences. The longer the miss the longer the back reel, the reload, and the movement speed penalty. Caleb was the King of the 1v1, yes. But he had realistically no gen or map pressure capability. He relied purely on pressuring people & doing that quickly.
The Complaints about Counter Play Seem almost illusionary.
Listen I've dumped a substantial time into Survivor too. I get it. That said, as a survivor I knew what hurt Deathslinger the most; high objects, long wall jungle gyms, dead harding at corners just like Huntress. But people seemed to focus in on the fact that skilled Deathslingers would drop instant shots at a certain range. I for one was a master of this and loved using Crosshair overlays to secure quick scope + draw ins for a hit. From a survivors perspective, there was nothing that could be done. That said, his stats never showed over-performance despite a supposedly uncounterable power. Why? Because Deathslinger was in fact, balanced to begin with. This was his power. Winning 1v1's incredibly quickly.
Nevertheless, he did have counterplay, one of the easiest counterplays in the game. In the same vein of making Legion a relatively powerless killer, all you had to do to counter Deathslinger was spread out. In the same way Legion couldn't punish a team with injury if you spread thin, Deathslinger couldn't snowball effectively from hook to hook. Likewise high geometry loops of which there are plentiful on many, many maps, served as their own personal hell for Deathslinger. Combine this without Legions mobility, and a quarantined team could easily give Deathslinger a brutal, unforgiving time.
But what do I mean by illusionary perception of counterplay? Well think about it. The real complaint is you can't see him ADS before a shot, no prep time (despite the fact that the chain is not hit scan and longer shots can easily be Deadharded with even a cursory understanding, not to mention juked). The act of seeing something seems to be the issue, despite the fact that other killers achieve similar effects with, well no counterplay. Slapping a survivor with an Intoxication bottle directly doesn't allow for a lot of counterplay, but hey, you could see it right? Pinheads chains if used correctly, just drop on top and hit M1, but hey you could see him warming up and maybe perceive the 1 second of the chain. You can see doctor prepping a charge, but does that do you any-good in the shock at a window or a pallet given the question of take hit or take a hit? Asking for counterplay or nerfs to these already mediocre powers would seem a tad ridiculous, and most people don't ask for them. Why then is it different for Caleb? There are many instances where you just have to accept a hit or a down. Calebs strength for all his faults, was that with high enough skill, open terrain or normally semi-safe pallets, could be where your power shines.
Calebs original downsides have been compounded to the point of total frustration.
Now that you have some insight and understanding as to the killers strength & weaknesses, lets look at 5.3.0's effects on Deathslinger.
- The Deathslinger must now wait for the Exit Aim animation to complete before being able to attack (0.6 seconds)
- Increased movement speed when aiming down sights to 85% (was 75%)
- The cooldown when a survivor breaks free is now the same duration as a successful hit cooldown
- Increased terror radius to 32 meters (was 24 meters)
- The Deathslinger must now wait for the Enter Aim animation to complete before being able to fire (0.4 seconds)
- Add-on – Gold Creek Whiskey: Removed movement speed penalty
- Add-on – Marshal’s Badge: Removed movement speed penalty
- Add-on – Iridescent Coin: Decreased range requirement to 12 meters (was 15 meters)
- Reworked Add-on – Hellshire Iron: When a Survivor is speared, gain Undetectable. The effect persists for 10 seconds after the Survivor is no longer speared.
All and all you'd probably say, thats just a typical rework; he has received some changes and two soft buffs. They are far more significant than you think.
Lets put aside the add-on changes, the take away from them is they've either been changed to support Nu-Deathslinger or made into something totally not useless. I for one just generally don't run Iri's anyhow, but they are at least powerful now in a realistic way.
Lets focus on his Power Changes. For one, exit & aim speed animation has all but gutted the ability to quick scope opponents. In all likelihood now, you will see Deathslinger ADSing before a shot. His movement speed was increased to 85% from 75%, so the intention is to continue to chase while ADSing or at least be moving. Survivors now have so much counterplay to Calebs power its on par if not worse than Clowns Intoxication abilities.
Please, I beg of you, just put aside your own personal prejudices towards killers in general, and hear me out. Caleb is 110% killer already. In pursuit of a long-shot that would normally be available to him, he has a long delay, in which case the shot may already have dissipated. Furthermore, juking at range is going to be far more effective, you can tell he's aiming why not serpentine a little? In all likelyhood, Deathslinger will either lose that long shot to time, but lets just say Deathslinger misses a 15 meter shot. He had a 0.5 second delay in lining it up, he now has 1.5 seconds to reel the harpoon back, and another 2.75 seconds to reload, which he will do if he wants to use his power again. All the while during this time, Caleb was moving at 85% speed for the lined shot, which is 93.5% movement speed (6.5% slower than the survivor), then throughout the shot & the reload, 66% movement speed for the next 4.13 seconds. Presuming the line shot was .5 seconds, all and all Caleb now loses in 4.63 seconds 72.5% movement relative to his survivor. In 4.63 seconds, in terms of speed being relative, that is more distance created than by any exhaustion perk in the game: Lithe, Sprintburst, Balanced Landing, Smash Hit, take your pick. They only increase movement speed by 150% for 3 Seconds. Caleb now is punished to such a degree that the best time he can hope for on a missed shot is 4.63 seconds wasted for the equivalent of a survivor having 172.5% movement speed.
Due to the absolutely ridiculous nature of the punishment now at hand, Deathslingers are encouraged to play boring, & unfortunately for them, predictably. Since you can't afford to miss and now that your long shots are more slated against you than ever, whats left but to be a slow, less talented version of say Nemesis or Pyramid Head, only taking shots at guaranteed points, or at semi-safe pallet loops, albeit in the most painful & clunky way possible. PH has no movement speed impairment while using Punishment of the Damned. Nemesis is lowered to 95%, but again, he can down at range & over pallets in addition to being a 115% move speed base. Ground is still being gained, and both can do something Deathslinger cannot do. Hit over pallets. One can even drag their AOE over a space for a confirmed hit, the other through walls. They likewise do not have to deal with the 125% increase in Zoom (literal tunnel vision) or waste time reloading after their miss slow down, which is equivalent to a hit anyhow for both. One has no penalty to prepping a shot & both lose significantly less time over-all the Deathslinger in addition to downing at range.
Caleb on the other hands maximum speed while ADSing is somewhere between 93.5% of with the addons an addition 3.5% for 97%, or if my order of operations is messed up here, 97.35%. Either way, any survivor or killer for that matter can tell you the difference between a measly 5% movement speed. People live and die by those numbers, and we have a killer here who cannot down at range, has a limited ranged of 18 meters (good luck on that reel) and has to lose ground by a colossal amount for any missed shot, being penalized up to 6.5% movement speed for his trouble.
What this translates to is an addon dependent killer, as you must ADS to use your power, so you might as well stack both movement speed addons, or at least one of them. Additionally taking keys, reel speed or chains will become a must as virtually all of them give you some semblance of a chance. The better solution of course, is not to take risky shots, which will realistically be anything below 13 meters, and more preferably, 5-8 meters.
Now Deathslinger will chase around pallets with bunny hopping crouch walks as the players draw out the inevitable, wasting everyone's time, but more importantly the killers for this hit or down. Windows & vaults will be the most common point of injury for the nu-Deathslinger, as the power encourages you to never use it unless you have utter certainty, and for often enough, little to some reward.
Chain breaks are still a dubious waste of time. It does get a chuckle out of me that the buff to his no vision limited movement speed after a chainbreak (which again, cannot down, only injure) was called a QOL improvement. Not even BHVR considers this a buff, because realistically, chain breaks are what they have always been. An absolute last resort. Chain breaking someone at distance is almost never worth losing the target, which will happen when you consider the speed not to mention total line of sight cut off. The removal of Chain Break addons has only compounded this as an almost regardless effort. Chain Breaks are only done as a last resort, ideally they shouldn't happen at all. 3 seconds from what I imagine was originally 4, is still a huge price to pay for not being able to see your opponent, and then having to again, spend an additional 4.13 reloading while they run the length of a football field with an additional speed boost on top of the relative 66-69% actual speed created by this encountered. This does not even factor in the time wasted on a chain break itself i.e. the reeling process.
These changes would still be enough to destroy Deathslinger in my opinion, his weakness are tuned up to 11, but we now arrive at the nail which drives its stake right into the heart of Deathslingers gimmick: His terror radius. Having changed his terror radius from 24 to 32, players will now start running with ample time to prepare for Deathslinger. Combined with his limited 18 meters max range & his 110% movement, Survivors now have their pick of when and where Deathslinger will be engaged. Gutting his elements of suprise to compensate for no map control, gen pressure and most importantly, his limited range, Deathslinger now starts & ends with nothing but disadvantages in the fight he is up against. He needs psuedo-stealth to close the distance, to create a disturbance; to use his power. Trickster & Huntress have lullabyes because their powers have limitless range & can down theoretically at any distance. Deathslinger can do neither.
While Trickster gets buffs Deathslinger gets nerfed, I can't help but see a double standard
Trickster seems to have a lot going for him as of late. He reads like the worst of all worlds and frankly in some ways, as a ranged killer, I feel that statement is warranted. Trickster has little thought into his use of his ability. The consequences for a missed knife have never been less severe with the reduction of 8 to 6 for an injured state. He has 44 knives, enough to cause roughly 7 injured states, or 3 downs & 1 injure before needing to reload.This does not even factoring in main event which creates a limitless supply during its time. In exchange trickster moves at 96.5% while firing his knives and a 4 second (likely 2 with Iron Maiden) pit stop every now and again. He has ranged down potential for realistically 1 down 1 injure to 2 downs realistically speaking and he still moves faster than Deathslinger while doing so.
How about the skill involved? Can anyone seriously argue someone quick scoping for a 14 meter shot around geometry or through the corn took less effort, game knowledge & prediction ability than holding M1 in the general direction of the person you are chasing? Whats the consequence for a missed knife versus the consequence for a missed Harpoon shot? In every way Deathslinger is punished, Trickster has genuinely nothing but upsides by comparison.
People might argue again, that its about counterplay, but what counterplay is there to a short loop with trickster slowly chipping you to death? How about Main Event camping a hook? Do you realistically have counterplay despite the fact that you can visualize the element of your chagrin?
Trickster by all accounts in comparison to the Huntress & Deathslingers Yin-Yang of good balance is a killer who gets all of their positives with none of their drawbacks, and worst of all, has a very high skill floor with a very low cieling. I am not hear to start a fight with Trickster fans or anything like that, but please acknowledge what you do isn't comparable at all to the effort involved for a Deathslinger, let alone a Huntress main.
It feels like were trending towards mediocrity with changes like this. Whats the point of investing years worth of time into a killer who isn't even on anyone's radar, just to have him demolished because someone somewhere feels his gimmick is a bummer for SWF's group, despite the fact that the killer by all statistical accounts performed fine?
What are my alternatives, if any, to Deathslinger as he is now?
Preferably, I'd simply ask for a revert. I think the numbers and philosophy of use, with very reasonable counterplay to beating DS are enough. But if changes must be made, please consider what I have told you hear when I make these suggestions:
1) Make the Redeemer a LAR with multiple shots before a reload. It'll take testing and tweaking to find the right number, somewhere between 3-5 shots. Animation speed for a miss / chain recall can be super accelerated (animation wise) until the time of actual reload in which case the already existing slowdowns will take effect. This would allow for breathing room to still make those awesome shots at range, allow for survivors demands at counterplay as he still has to ADS, and encourage development and risk taking. If simply x50% speed of animation is to clunky, well, as a LAR, just add a new animation of slapping a new harpoon & chain in each shot. A meager time penalty is fine before having to load up, relative to the shots expended, with the max being the same as already existing time penalties.
2) Either restore or incorporate something original for his terror radius. 24 meters in my opinion, was perfect, but if you want to do something interesting, make his terror radius a stackable for each set of seconds (lets say 3-5) he's not in chase. Make it like furtive chase or some such non-sense, with each set of time reducing his terror radius from 32 by 4 meters each stack up to 4 stacks (16 meter reduction), and lose all stacks in a chase. This gives him an edge if he's being W-Gamed or Spinechilled too long so that he can actually ambush and use his power.
3) If neither of these changes can be accommodated, then Chain Break has every right to down at range.
These are merely my thoughts after several hundred hours in the game, most of them invested in my Favorite Killer. I apologize for any spelling errors or typos, I'll be working to sort those out here shortly.
I would love to hear the communities thoughts.
I really would, thank you for reading.
Edit: I have made a few corrections in both typos & calculations.
Wasted effort man. This all hinges on the idea that BHVR or Survivors use logic and reason. We know they don't :(.
But it was nice to see the actual numbers that supported my frustration.
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@LeonxJiwoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595435#Comment_2595435
If you do not know what the difference of english and other languages are I really cant help you there friend o.o
What I'm saying is the word salad you are concocting in an effort to stroke your own ego is weak, at best, and completely irrelevant to what I wrote at worst.
Come again?
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@LeonxJiwoon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2595316#Comment_2595316
Think is 90% of the time its anger management issue of the killer that you got 3 to 5 gen by a very good survival group and while you waste your time with 1k points the other 3 escape in solo queue if they smart, except it wont even work because me + all 3 friends brings borrow time so we easily out play that .
Was that English? Or even relevant to what I wrote?
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If I hit you on hook it's because I'm making a point. I have time to spare :)
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You have 17 posts, have you considered searching the forums for any of the NOED topics that are less than a week old and already cover this perk in excruciating detail?
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590766#Comment_2590766
Sure, sure. Again. Feel free to watch through hours of VOD. I clipped 3 decent hits out of god knows how many. That were decent hits. Youre sadly mistaken if "good" players would of faired any better in those situations. They were ######### at those loops regardless of "skill level"
I find it absolutely hilarious. Because I dont think Ive ever shown video to someone to prove a point. And they didnt go "OMG baby survivors ! This proves nothing !" Ive literally done most of those things you said. Even now..Falling and getting my shot. Catching them before sprint burst. Catching them just as they ended dead hard. None of what you listed is impossible now. Or hard
Seriously. I could show you how good demo is at shack...Against even comp players. And you would say "well theyre not good survivors !" As they hugged the wall like any other survivor would do and leave themselves open for an easy shred
You know why it looks easy when someone gets "easy" hits ? Because they made it look easy
Like I said, my anecdotal comment leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Unfortunately, I know it to be true. I hope you have a ton of fun with Deathslinger, regardless of your misconceived notion that you're playing at a decent MMR.
Someone should get to enjoy the old tycoon.
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@BrokenSouI said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2590615#Comment_2590615
Oh lord lol. I could of literally clipped ANYTHING else. And you would of not been happy and found fault. The point was. You can still get ALL the same hits and it barely hurt how he functions. AIM BETTER
Those aren't the same hits buddy. Those are the bottom of the barrel braindead survivors who play and act like a potato.
I haven't seen survivors play that poorly in months against my DS. I don't like to make anecdotal claims based on MMR, but man, you're playing a different game than the rest of us.
The hits we were pulling off to win our games was through holes in Killshack, while falling off of second story buildings, predicting sprint burst jukes, the list goes on.
Your shots...were against survivors who were hell bent on moving in a straight line. Dare I say it, your shots were against the kind of survivors who would complain about Deathslinger being OP in the first place.
I didn't even want to respond and give you that potential "See, nothing will make you happy, aim better." Retort. It's sad that you believe this is how DS operates against good survivors :(
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There is already a penalty, we lose points.
Feel free to rush gens instead of being altruistic.
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@UnknownKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2589499#Comment_2589499
Yeah try that with some neurones survivors
The dude has clearly never seen such survivors. He is of the camp that believes just wagging back and forth is the only counterplay.