Nobody_TM
Nobody_TM
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990442#Comment_3990442
This is a serious discussion? I thought being sarcastic with me meant you were being a silly billy.
At the very least my sarcasm could be an invitation to use your imagination, provoke thought and consider perhaps there may be other answers or causes to the effect. Snark is just banal snark, drop a "sweetie 💅" and complete the picture already big brain.
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@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990428#Comment_3990428
You sure know a lot about me, huh? 😵
I know that no serious person uses emojis in a meaningful discussion. You also aren't excactly beating the allegations here, kiddo.
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I mean what would be the point of explaining a "conflict of interest" to you, you don't strike me as someone whose open to the possibility of being wrong. I also don't think it'll matter; the effects of this patch if this course is maintained will be realized somewhere in the next couple of months, and when killer is seen to be untenable you will get the conditions which kicked off the 6.0.0 shake up all over again. The exchange just isn't comensrative, even taken the hook trade incentives to a comical level which they'd never do.
There's always Identity V; the times are changing. -
@UnicornMedal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3990385#Comment_3990385
I wouldn't say the only time. But it was excessively in the Killers' favor, to the point that it actively harmed the game. If it didn't, we wouldn't be where we are now with this patch.
Yeah you're right, there could be no other explanation.
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@UnicornMedal said:
It's a little cathartic if I'm being completely honest.
I remember when 6.1.0 dropped and Killers were able to run very oppressive slowdown builds that required no interaction from them while standing in front of hook and being able to recover fast enough after a successful attack to grab any Survivor off of hook. It was literally impossible to swap without Desperate Measures or another Survivor, which is why I started running it to begin with. Basekit BT evaporated into nothing before it was buffed, what, a week later? Steamrolls and going next skyrocketed overnight, with BHVR saying it was an acceptable state for the game to be in and any concern about that being met with "you're just mad that your precious Dead Hard is gone".
Meanwhile, this change is actually much healthier for the game and seems to benefit both sides overall. All it does is add more autonomy to Survivor in dire situations, while still removing a bit at the same time via body blocks. Conspicuous actions are still a thing. Endgame presence is still incredibly lacking for Survivor. It's just making tunneling and slugging less viable than before. And you'd think it's like Survivor discovered the launch codes against Killer.
It tells me pretty much everything I already know.
Well I mean 6.1.0 was the only time in DBD's history where killer was definitively the real power role of the game so it's really not suprising why you'd hate it.
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@Steakdabait said:
better balance lmao kekw 2v8 is super hyper casual and boring
If you want to make an argument for how 1v4 with 120+ perks on both surv and killer + add ons is more balanced than 2v8, by all means, please explain it to me.
Slow like. -
3 times in a row. I have now spent 1.5 hours waiting for a killer game.
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@Abbzy said:
Have you got killer match so far? I tried but after 40 minutes it kicked me off and then it just disconets me from server every 5-10 minutes of waiting even surivor ques are long for me about the same as killers were in first 2v8.
Nope, but I just waited 30 minutes in the que to get disconnected at the lobby screen
EPIC
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@PuddleOfBludd said:
You don’t want survivor players. And now you won’t have them. Good luck on queue times, killers.
Won’t be touching this again until 2v8.
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The Twisted Masquerade was only a few weeks ago brother.
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@Mushwin said:
really? the whole dbd went nuts over the streetwise kill switch, so so much negativity, so much down votes, so many comments, so many platforms informed etc and in the end, switched it off? was it worth it? why have all the bad press etc just to turn it off? i dont know…….
Q: Was it worth it?
A: Yes.
BHVR is going on nearly a decade of active development of DBD; this stuff isn't acceptable anymore. -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978556#Comment_3978556
With that call u basically brings back 2018–2019 Spirit, as long as she doesn't have prayer beads.
And today? Spirit has way more counterplay nowadays than this "vacuum into guessin game."I don't disagree that Spirit has more counterplay now than the past.
But if you're suggesting there's no guessing around her power she would literally just be a 110 M1 killer, which she is not. Despite her power being very strong you're going to eat downs and some situations there's going to be little displays of skill and just more elements of "I guessed correctly".
Imagine this scenario: You are at the Cow-Tree loop. A strong loop that can be played against Haste Clown and Spirit. You are Injured and gotta make this count. If you're timing this correctly, clown needs to use both bottles to get the down. Spirit however just needs to phase.
Whats more fair or interactive? A killer you can see and possibly can pre-emtpively rotate properly around the slowndown and get the stun (or while unlikely possibly even one extra loop), or guessing which side of the pallet or window phasing spirit is on?
I'd argue getting downed by a killer thats been reduced to "guessing" is more imbalanced and unfun, but I also wouldn't say Spirit is overtuned either. The data doesn't support it.
There are area's that are good and bad for certain killers and scenarios good and bad for different killers. My point is Clown is not overtuned, and people just don't want to learn how to play against something they don't understand. Its a kneejerk reaction.
I can empathize, I still suck at countering singularity. -
@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978552#Comment_3978552
Most spirit mainers don't use those addons…because they suck. Second the addon that makes her a guessing game.. really? When she's actually near you and in chase you can hear her coming directly at you. That addon only works if shes far away from you… and most survivors who know how to counter spirit knows this.
The stun addon.. sure she has that but again most spirit mainers don't use that addon.
I'm not gonna argue about this. My personal experience with clowns so far is that he's too fast. That's all. I was never against buffing him or changing him, but the haste he gets is too much with the haste stacking perks.
The real difference here is Spirit forces 50/50 guesses with almost no way to confirm whether your guess was correct—especially around pallets and windows until the moment of truth.
With Clown, even if you’re under pressure, there’s still room for outplay: you can bait throws, use tight loops, or time stuns. That’s far more engaging than just gambling every time you hear a vacuum.
I’d argue Clown is easier to learn but harder to master, while Spirit is hard to read, period—and that difference creates frustration, not fun.
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@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978487#Comment_3978487
I'll just agree to disagree with you here. Spirit is 4.4 and her cooldown is quite long. Clown can just make bottles fast and keep the haste up, also he can hinder you which means even some loops are unsafe.
Maps are always RNG for every killer. Every killer has maps they shine and maps they arent as good in, this doesn't change the fact that clown with 35% haste build is a little overtuned.
Behaviour should have not allowed the haste stacking to continue.
"Maps are always RNG for every killer. Every killer has maps they shine and maps they arent as good in, this doesn't change the fact that clown with 35% haste build is a little overtuned. "
And as I've stated before, when you show me the 2k Clown winstreak I'll concede to you, but otherwise that's literally a feeling not backed by data.
Spirit has add ons that make her power a guessing game such as everyone hearing the same audio ques everywhere rendering it useless. Likewise another add on which instantly recharges her power if your correctly guessed and stunned her. These aren't even considered her best, where as clowns is 5% extra speed. There's more meaningful counterplay in an opponenent whose fast and I can see than one whose fast and I can't; you don't even need to go above paper to know that. -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978539#Comment_3978539
he fact is: Clown was reworked to supposedly make him more 'versatile'—to encourage people to use both bottles more equally, instead of relying mostly on his main one.
I never had an issue with that to begin with (I mean, the main bottle was his core ability—the other one was just a gimmick), but Behaviour clearly thought the gameplay was too one-dimensional.But if things now end up exactly where we started—where one bottle becomes dominant again and the other is barely used—and on top of that, many of the different macro gameplay variants are getting phased out,
then I’d argue that’s actually worse design than before.Take Legion, for example—yes, super boring, no doubt.
But Legion’s mechanic was always Legion’s mechanic.
There was never a point where players invested hundreds or even thousands of hours into mastering a specific playstyle, only to have it broken by a massive rework.
Legion got buffs over time, sure—but never anything that completely flipped their gameplay on its headhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_mm3sIX9Uc
This is Arinad, the forethought on Clown mains and author of the 200 page clown guide, stating he's alright with the changes, despite "mastering a specific playstyle, only to have it broken by a massive rework."
Regardless of BHVR original mechanical intent, the goal was to move Clown up the roster due to his woeful pick rate, out-dated power and weak performance, which by all accounts has succeeded.
People "mastered" old freddy, Forever freddy and the modern freddy, and all of those have flipped his gameplay on their head. Were you as passionate about Freddy as you were clown? -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978531#Comment_3978531
It's not just about "skill" alone, but when Behaviour changes something to favor one aspect—like pushing a particular part of a killer’s kit to be used more—and it results in that part being heavily favored as soon as people play efficiently and not meme-style, then that’s a design flaw. It just happens in reverse now, leading to a monotonous, one-dimensional use of the base killer kit, and this time it impacts the entire macro gameplay in a noticeably more boring way.
This is why i think he will change him again. But maybe I´m wrong.
The rest is honestly just like you said—a personal thing and a matter of taste. I just personally enjoy playing Nurse more, for example, because I feel like I need to be more focused. Or if it’s an M1 killer, I tend to prefer ones like Sadako or Myers, because I feel more challenged in both micro and macro gameplay. :D But like I said, tastes differ, and that’s totally okay, right? I mean, I’m genuinely happy for you that you enjoy the new Clown.
I don't think its a matter of opinion to say a killer who cannot be countered is unhealthy for the game, nor pointing out the hypocrisy of defending a much more egregiously unhealthy killer while going after another which isn't anywhere near in power scaling and objectively healthier for the game state purely because it doesn't float your boat.
I don't really like Plague or Legion; never demanded they be changed purely because I deem their power "boring" and "easy to use".
You needn't worry though, the games history proves my perspective is in the minority, so Clown will get Skull Merchant'd soon enough.
I'm just offering you perspective on why your game sucks and feels like the same crap different day over and over again. It's because you(royal) resist change or identifying the real problem and the community likes feels over reals. Blight and Nurse feel fair even though the evidence runs wildly contrary, but Clown feels unfair, so he's gotta go. Cheers. -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978523#Comment_3978523
If your point is to say the new Clown isn’t “OP,” I’ve never argued the opposite. They did make him stronger, sure, but he’s still not “upper top.” I just find him way too easy to play for what he can do… and don’t think the changes to his core design are that great. (But hey, seems like you actually like how he is now) :D
But if the new "Clown" meta ends up just being that one bottle gets used way more than the others… then they’ll probably push another change afterward.
"We again find ourselves back at the perceived excuse for that which is investment or "skill". So its okay that Blight or Nurse, if operated correctly, cannot be meaningfully beaten/countered and I just have to respect their skill, but the Clown who can be beaten/countered even when played correctly I must not respect or accept, because he allegedly required less investment? Or that I didn't FEEL his misuse as telegraphed as Blights or Nurse i.e. direct feedback, regardless of outcome."
"The new Clown isn’t as strong as Nurse or Blight, if that’s what you’re trying to say? I dont think you will see any (not manipulated) win streak like this with him. but.. Yea, safe safe. And I know Nurse is really tough to beat—hardly any team can keep up with her. But honestly, I’m not too worried about it: I have that one killer where I know I’ll usually win, even if the survivor team makes almost no mistakes. With most other killers, I still need a ton of survivor errors to have a good chance—so I’m totally fine with that and don’t feel bad about it when I play Nurse. "
There's nothing wrong with Clown.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978517#Comment_3978517
The new Clown isn’t as strong as Nurse or Blight, if that’s what you’re trying to say? I dont think you will see any (not manipulated) win streak like this with him. but.. Yea, safe safe. And I know Nurse is really tough to beat—hardly any team can keep up with her. But honestly, I’m not too worried about it: I have that one killer where I know I’ll usually win, even if the survivor team makes almost no mistakes. With most other killers, I still need a ton of survivor errors to have a good chance—so I’m totally fine with that and don’t feel bad about it when I play Nurse.
And after a few hours playing Nurse, I also know exactly what I “did” and where my focus was. With Clown, I just don’t get that feeling. To me, he’s simply too “easy” at that point.
You're literally proving my point.
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@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978504#Comment_3978504
It’s not about “misusing” the power. It’s about human mistakes—things everyone makes, even the best Blight and Nurse players. And the amount of focus and concentration each killer demands to be played consistently at a high level for hours.
It’s not about playing the killer or their kit “wrong,” but simply about the human errors that happen even to the best players.
I never said Clown never gets punished—where would that even be? But when you play Clown, mistakes don’t feel nearly as costly or punishing. You recover faster from every mistake and can do more with those moments.
And overall, you don’t need to invest nearly as much focus as when I’m playing Nurse for 8 hours straight, for example.Well again its in your wording; "mistakes don't FEEL nearly as costly or punishing". The evidence does not support that though, it's a feeling. When you show me the new Clown with a 2k winstreak I'll concede my point, but the reality is there are killers who are objectively NOT punished or punished enough for misusing their power, and they happen to be Nurse, Blight specifically, and to some extent Ghoul.
We again find ourselves back at the perceived excuse for that which is investment or "skill". So its okay that Blight or Nurse, if operated correctly, cannot be meaningfully beaten/countered and I just have to respect their skill, but the Clown who can be beaten/countered even when played correctly I must not respect or accept, because he allegedly required less investment? Or that I didn't FEEL his misuse as telegraphed as Blights or Nurse i.e. direct feedback, regardless of outcome.
This mindset is the reason the game is in the state that its in to begin with, and if this perception is left unchallenged, then people have no right to complain about the staleness of the Killer Meta, nor constant rotation of Nurse, Blight and Ghoul at the top. -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978498#Comment_3978498
Sure... but.. Plague is also super, super, SUPER easy to counter. And not this strong. And y.. Learning Nurse isn’t as hard as many think, same with Blight. Good curve control with Billy isn’t rocket science either. BUT: every mistake you make can be costly. Really costly. Blink wrong with Nurse once? Good players turn that straight into a huge disadvantage and get distance immediately. Use all your rushes with Blight wrong? You get punished hard.
That’s exactly what I feel is missing with the new Clown. At least for me, personally.
yipp, sure, the boring bottle reload time is a ‘punishment.’ But honestly, it feels way more like super boring downtime than an actual ‘I messed up and now I’m paying for it’ kind of punishment
But hey, everyone likes different things :D. So go for it when u have fun. And glad to hear from someone who actually enjoys the changes. (So far I’ve mostly heard negative feedback (yup most from killer side), even though they definitely made him stronger
Plagues ease of counter depends on a variety of factors; from team-mates, tile arrangement and strength, to the map itself. The same thing can be said of Clown.
You're now speaking about misusing power and getting punished, which is like saying old Dead Hard is fine because people Dead Harded for distance directly into a wall. We're not talking about people misuing there power. If you're trying to suggest Clown never gets punished for making bad decisions or not knowing how to loop you'd be wrong; four man stacks can still make a Clown out of the Clown even when he's playing correctly. There are tiles you cannot haste your way past. If all you're doing with clown is lunging speed rush at every pallet you will get punished at high MMR. Would you like videos of someone playing Clown at a high MMR and getting countered as new speed Clown?
I have a video of literally 2 DC's and 1 AFK getting carried by a single player running the clown.
Edit: There is never any meaningful distance gained on Mobility killers for their mistakes, like you tried to suggest with Nurse and Blight. The evidence for that just isn't there and comes down to the operator not the vehicle. It might FEEL that way, but thats all it is, a FEELING. The very nature of their high mobility negates that entirely and is the reason they are so high on power scale. Suggesting Blight can have any meaningful punishment when he's been used for 2k winstreaks is patently false and is just "When I dead hard I just run into the wall!". You're asking me to believe in 2000 games a man never made a single mistake with his power or 8000 survivors with 32,000 perks at the height of MMR were a bunch of bumbling clowns. -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978481#Comment_3978481
Sure, it’s subjective. If you enjoy it—fair enough, go for it. For me, he’s just not it; I find playing him way too boring. I’ve also heard from quite a few Clown mains that they’re pretty unhappy with the changes. But it’s nice to hear finally from people who actually have fun with the changes! :D
but..
I just hope they don’t turn every reworked killer into some “super easy to play” formula. I’ve heard a lot of criticism from Clown mains who played him for his macro gameplay complexity, which now basically becomes obsolete. (this is why i think they will change him again) I get the frustration there; personally, I also find Clown way too easy to play (and no, not OP).
Whether the new Clown is “A-tier” is a tough call. I think other killers still have “more” going on, though honestly, I don’t put much stock into these whole “tier lists.” For me, there’s “Nurse… Blight.” And then everyone else. "the big rest."
Also,for the others beside nurse/blight: where a killer sits on that “tier list” shifts massively depending on the map they get, the teams they face, and what perks those teams bring. So sure, you can roughly categorize killers as “strong,” “good,” “okay,” “bad,” or “trash.” But assigning an exact spot on a tier list? Too many other factors influence that to be reliable.
With respect, the mindset that only killers who require an X-amount of hours or put a premium on "skill" (that is a lot lower of an investment than you think) is the reason Nurse, Blight and Ghoul are dominating the upper echelons and why you see the same boring meta of Grim Embrace + DMS + Pain Res on nearly every killer; their trying to close that gap of power.
There's nothing wrong with making a killer accessible and strong; not every element of a killers power requires counterplay. For instance; there is no real counterplay to getting broken through infection to plague unless you chose to make a very dubious decision and cleanse. I can speak from experience as someone who likes to run full healing build its incredibly demoralizing to know all of my perks are pretty much useless.
Doesn't mean Plague is OP, even though she's not particularly hard to play and has a "1 dimensional power".
I also want to point out that the last section of tiering killers being hogwash is a crazy take that can only exist from spreadsheet gaming. -
@Hannacia said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978473#Comment_3978473
He's beatable as long as you have a safe loop and a pallet to use. Eventually you'll run out of those. He is too fast and most clowns use haste builds to make them faster. You can't outrun that, at least my little legs won't carry me fast enough to loop him when he has 35% more haste.
The critique that you'll run out of pallets as survivor as a resource is applicable to every killer in the game. You can't outrun a wraith,spirit or ghoul either, yet people still find ways to make it work. Some maps are better or worse for either side on rolls of the dice on location and tile arrangement. This is nothing new; again it just boils down to not wanting to adapt to a new killer power.
You arguably have more counter-play against a Clown than you do a Spirit; we aren't even talking about Nurse or Blight. -
@oecrophy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3978473#Comment_3978473
Of course, he’s beatable… that doesn’t really change anything overall.
I mean.. you really like that design? Um.. only my opinion, but u can make killers strong and suitable for high MMR without making them completely easy and boring (and one-dimensional) to play. I’d like to see many killers buffed to be more viable at high MMR—but definitely not like they’re trying with Clown or like pre-nerf Kaneki… idk
For me it changes a lot. If theres a killer in the game that can have a 2000 game win streak, against every scenario imaginable, to me that indicates theres no real meaningful counterplay to that killer. Yet your not in here complaining about that killer.
Your in here complaining about Clown, because you deem his power "1 dimensional", a completely subjective take. Having played Clown and against Clown, I gotta say I never once felt bored during the entire process. New clown being a high speed machine feels great; pinks still have uses at certain loops and are great for forcing medium vaults that change misses into hits. Even the man who wrote the 200 page clown guide, whose entire guide is invalidated by this, has gone on the record and said this is all pretty great and fun for Clown. Fighting against clown now translates to cutting chases a little shorter as surv; not greeding and pre-dropping earlier or like nurse, avoiding detection in weaker areas all together until you've got Gen momentum.
There's no shortage of counterplay; the character isn't OP, he's just new and accessible, and a specific group of people don't want to adapt to either of those two things. There's nothing wrong with Clown; and I wish more killers would also recieve similar buffs to push them further into A tier regions to restore Killer in general to the power role in the game. -
That's honestly not a terrible idea; the Wheel of Fate would actually make for a really interesting Dracula or Vecna skin mayhaps.
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@Mechanix82 said:
He has become a tunneling monster. Take away the fact that all clowns only use yellow bottles now which i though was what BHVR was trying to get them to not do use one bottle. Now all clowns proxy camp the hook and they are so fast you can not get to safety. I feel like BHVR just doesnt know what to do and is so detached from the game.
Good survivors can still beat the new Clown; all Clown has become is Viable at higher MMRs, which means he must die.
Only Blight, Nurse and Kaneki are allowed such privleges.
Coincidentally does anyone know why I only see Blight, Nurse and Kaneki every game? Its getting really old. -
There's nothing wrong with Clown, and if there is, then Blight and Nurse are far bigger offenders.
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@[Deleted User] said:
maybe they've intentionally not killswitched it so they can track the data and see just how much someone spending time to get infinite charges on their item affects the outcome of a match.
I'm sure the devs that left a giant pole in your loading screen are diligently tracking that metadata as we speak.
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@OhDavn said:
I just want to say I really appreciate the fog vials being added with the negativity going on because people don’t want to learn how to play against it. I’m glad survivors finally got a new item and it is nice to have. It is not very hard to play against at all.
Pray tell how do ranged killers or say, Spirit, play against Fog Vials?
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@Raccoon said:
There are certainly a few silly scenarios with the perk, but I don't know if they will nerf it.
Conviction builds are pretty fun, though, when you're the one using them.
Playing against them is another story :(
I think it needs something added to its activation conditions, personally, though I don't know what…
Yes.
The perk/combo is strong against any killer but it also straight up hard counters twins completely.
Fog vials also have totally killed Spirit viability.
The game doesn't need more killers or more survivors, more perks or more bloat. It desperately needs QOL, reworks and bug fixes to existing killers, buffs to the solo que experience and significant nerfs to the SWF experience. -
@TheGoon224 said:
honestly this question popped in my head during the AMA not too long ago and in one of the questions I noticed how y’all said trickster is getting his rework in early 2026 a killer who is still viable right now. So what makes him more of a priority than merchant who is a killer who is suffering, unviable, and is scheduled for later in that year?
Do you remember when Gen Merchant would refuse to do anything that wasn't protect their 3 gen with unhealthy conditionaless regression perks and would hold games hostage for actual hours?
The Killer made a lot of enemies on launch; Skull Merchants behavior was bad for both sides as it needlessly tortured survivor players and the crack down on those perks hurt other decent Killers just trying to play the game.
Skull Merchants not a priority because there's no good will for Skull Merchant and there probably never will be.
While this is callous, I'd be happy if Skull Merchant was left to rot; of all the killers on the roster there's no one less deserving of attention. -
It is almost a certainty that it was nerfed due to its interaction with the Fog Vials being the first auto recharging item, and its interaction with it likely conflicted with the spaghetti code.
What evidence? Well the literal precedent of them doing it before to Franklins due to items like the Box, Nemi Vials and Wesker Cans. Originally franklins destroyed items when they hit 0 charges, but rather than just fix the code or implement items properly for the new killers, it was more time efficient (i.e. easier) to just nerf franklins so that it merely removed charges. If the item has no charges just uses its all Kosher.
Now it just removes charges of items, but what happens when technically your charges auto-rebuild over time?
Whatever interaction it had we know it was likely broken and furthermore required a thoughtful solution in coding to correct. That solution, was, well, you know. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972418#Comment_3972418
There are definitely things weaker killers are struggling with now and will in the future, and some forms of healing are definitely among them.
Medkits, though, aren't, unless a survivor is dedicating a lot to make them that way. A middle of the pack double-heal, no-speed-increase medkit is very reasonable, as is a single-heal speedy medkit.
Yeah again, we just aren't going to see eye to eye on this one.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972395#Comment_3972395
For the record, I mostly play killers like the ones you're talking about. Sadako has been my main killer recently, I've played a fair chunk of Wraith and Clown over the years, I used to be a Trapper main…
Trust me when I tell you that this is not a misguided take born of only looking at a small section of the game. If you're worried about pressure from injuries, medkits without very specific supporting tools aren't actually the issue right now. If you see a lobby full of medkits, sure, that's reason to pause and rethink your perk selections, but you've never needed SPECIFICALLY Franklin's to do it.
There are other individual perks you can run, you don't need to dedicate a whole build. JUST Gift of Pain sufficiently punishes survivors for healing, JUST Sloppy Butcher can push survivors to stay injured longer, JUST Forced Penance makes sure that survivors taking aggro can't heal up quickly, and so on.Sure, you can run combos if you want, but you don't need to. Identify what you're struggling with and there'll certainly be tools to help you— and I'm willing to bet it's rarely actually the existence of medkits, honestly.
Plus, don't forget that stopping survivors from healing/making it slower isn't the only option. You can also lessen the benefit of healing with some specific chase perks as well.Put simply, there isn't a problem that is only solved by Franklin's and other tools can't address. There's nothing related specifically to medkits that requires that one specific perk to counter which you don't have other answers for. At worst you just have to get a bit creative, which is certainly a mild annoyance but not a balance problem.
I've got 6 years under my belt as killer myself, I just respectfully disagree thats all. I think with the addition of new add ons (and items) such as the Iri Stamp amongst other things, that in time, people will come to see it my way.
Franklins was almost certianly nerfed to avoid conflict in spagheti code against recharging items (i.e. the Fog Vial) and I think deep down, people know thats almost certianly true. -
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972356#Comment_3972356
Pressure from injuries only becomes meaningless if the self heals are very fast, which is why the CoH peak was such a problem. That perk combined with the much stronger medkits at the time meant that realistically speaking, survivors would have multiple sub-10 second self-heals in a match, which is crazy powerful.
Now don't get me wrong, medkits are still very powerful, but you can't have insanely fast AND insanely numerous heals. You have to pick one or the other, and you have to dedicate far more of your build to get either.
Regular, unmodified medkits aren't an issue. You don't need to be scared of a single 24 second heal, and you don't need to be scared of two either if they only bring charge addons. That survivor's still investing time to heal.
They get scarier with a few tools added in, Botany being a very powerful supporting perk, but to get anything close to old CoH meta a survivor would have to dedicate a huge chunk of their build… which means they'll lack chase, info, gen speed, anti-tunnel, whatever. How much of the loadout it takes to get a crazy effect is relevant to the balance discussion, because it makes a survivor's build very fragile and inflexible.If you're worried about it, there are also good anti-perks to pick from. Mangled being on a timer is fairly annoying and Vigil is popular right now, so let's say that's off the table- you still have something like Leverage to convince them to stay injured or Gift of Pain to outright punish them for healing, you still have Coulrophobia if you're playing a killer with a decent terror radius, you have stuff like Deathbound and Forced Penance as sort of sideways anti-heal perks… and you do still have Franklin's.
The time it takes them to get the medkit again adds to the overall heal time. It's not as good, but it still exists- in my opinion it isn't worth running because it was only barely worth running if you really, really wanted survivors not to be allowed to use their builds with the secondary effect, but if all you want is to make sure healing takes a time investment, it does still do that.I'm sorry thats just not true, and likely comes from the perspective of the modern, stronger killers who are both quick to injure and down with varied and large amounts of built in pressure.
Many standard killers (Single Ability Killers) who do not have the wild kits or power creep elements of modern killers depend on those inches and seconds, and even a modest health kit with standard speed but a lot of charges allows a team to reset at their convenience and individually, out of or in position.
Take Wraith for instance, whose main strength comes through hit and run, or Twins who depend on pressuring injury states. Even with the large power gap between them, I don't think you can honestly say that a decent medkit on 4 survs makes no difference there. Again, we aren't even talking about the high run stuff, just middle of the road decent.
Again, you are suggesting a lot of other perks as work arounds that again, do not directly solve the problem. Their not worthless suggestions, don't get it twisted, but Imagine my tire explodes and I used to just be able to go and get a new tire for my car. Now you've banned tire replacement for cars but constantly try to sell me that a Bike on the grounds that its a vehicle, people can use it to get to work, is somehow an equal or adequate replacement.
It doesn't change the fact that a bike is not a car and I don't want to ride a damn bike.
I don't want to have 3 different perks as a round about solution to a problem that already had a direct solution. I'm not buying YouTube premium for features they hid behind a paywall that were formally free.
Again, in the end though it doesn't matter because the solutions are already there; like I said, if its clear to a killer there's 4 medkits and pressure is impossible due to constant ease of resets, then the killers going to tunnel.
And there's nothing wrong with that lmao.
I am merely suggesting for the sake of SURVIVORS, you may want to consider your stance and go play Trapper for a while and tell me Medkits are meaningless / GoP fixes all -
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3972240#Comment_3972240
Uh, no, I would not equip a ######### perk to deal with Medkits.
If people tunnel because of it, then they were already going to tunnel.
A strong medkit with multiple heals removes the pressure that injury states typically apply. If even two survivors can heal twice by themselves in a game, and the other two once, yes, that does incentivize tunneling because dropping chase or spreading damage is meaningless.
Decent pressure is one surv in chase, one on a gen, and two healing (optimally each other). The two healing may be out of position and have travel time as well, both before and after hook/unhooking.
Add in Decent Medkits and you can throw this out the window; we aren't even talking about the stronger side of things.
Sloppy is likewise not a meaningful solution given mangled was also nerfed to a temp condition, and Vigil generally is more common than ever for it. The optimal strat is just don't heal through sloppy, work a gen and then heal. If you wana talk leverage or something you're asking me to dedicate half my perks to a "soft counter" medkits.
Whats easier, losing half or more of my perks to bad slowdown effects that won't solve the problem (mangled affects time not total medkit use anyway) or just tunneling the weak link till their dead / cycling hooks relentlessly?
Franklins has always been healthy, even back when it destroyed items. The perk has likely been nerfed to forgo anymore spaghetti code problems (like the last time with Cenobites Box / Nemi's Syringes / Weskers CANS).
It isn't nessisary to win but thats the point; Survivor Mains will bear the brunt of that when they begin to use the glut of medkits they aquired in the event to trivialize pressure, which will bring tunneling back to the highs not since seen since the Release of CoH BOONERS. -
Ah so you do understand hypotheticals, you just wanted to post a zinger/last word that in this context now makes no sense.
Your killer gets a speed boost (or if you prefer a "change") on their kit any time they use their axe, hit or miss. They are rewarded either way, or if you'd like, have their mistakes or misuse, subsidized. Other killers, are slowwwwwwwwed dowwwwwwn for misuing their power or missing. Nemisis, Pyramid Head, Cenobite, Trickster, Deathslinger, Huntress, etc. Those that have less penalty for missing, have to go somewhere and reload, or are giving a reaaaaly long slowdowns instead. Your killer, speeds up! That means, his cooldown should be looooooong… like way loooooooooooooooong…like loooooooooooooooooooonger than they even are now realistically.
You can't have it all, fnaf fan. -
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960635#Comment_3960635
okay so now we're making stuff up because we dont have anything of value to add to the discussion, have a good day
How would you feel if you didn't eat breakfast this morning?
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@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960630#Comment_3960630
when im in false equivalency competition and my opponent is an dbd forum user:
artist is 115% at any time btw, not 110% while her power is up.
"But I did eat breakfast this morning!"
I'm asking you hypothetically speaking, to imagine a world where she moves at 120% every time her birds are recharging. You'd probably call that silly, or ridiculous. I say a 110% ranged killer with stealth and teleporting mechanics getting to be a 115% for doing what they already do and wether they do it well or not, is equally as silly.
And its for that reason I think the cooldown should be 11.5 across the board. Looks like were at an impass! -
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960620#Comment_3960620
the cooldown for both hitting or missing should be 7 seconds.
it does not need to be any longer than it is already.
Nah, it should 11.5 seconds for both for reasons already stated.
"Imagine if artist gained a 5% haste effect every time they ran out of birds."
Looks like were at an impass! -
@SpringMyTrap said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960569#Comment_3960569
he literally gets a longer cooldown if he HITS the survivor.
he gets speed boost regardless of hitting or missing.
Yeah as I said the cooldown should be longer. His cooldown for missing should be equally as long as for him hitting. The speedboost regardless is subsidizing his power no matter how he uses it. Imagine if artist gained a 5% haste effect every time they ran out of birds. Its just silly and no amount of shilling will change my mind.
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@Jspect said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3960569#Comment_3960569
I get the deathslinger bias but no. And when does he get a speed boost? Regardless, that's not the topic of this post. I agree Springtrap could be slower in ways but his cooldown needs to be shorter.
I get the fnaf bias but no.
He goes to 115% when he does not have the Axe, which means hit or miss, his power is always subsidized. He should suffer slowdowns or penalties for misusing his powers like everyone else in the game, or alternatively, his axe should not recharge in chase. As it stands, his kit already has enough advantages without subsidizing his already generous hybrid ranged abilities. -
He's rewarded for misusing his power by getting a speed boost, the cooldown if anything should be longer.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
I personally think Deathslinger has one of the best chase powers in the game but fundamentally suffers from the fact that their 4v1 is just really, really terrible.
The larger Terror Radius plays into their ability well when you consider that Deathslinger can use Exposed perks like Starstruck to great effect; issue is that this is moreso an oddly specific example and they lack the movement speed to really capitalize on the Exposed most of the time.
If it were up to me, Id give our dear boy Caleb some new tools. They are an engineer afterall, and their weapon is a modified Rail Spike Gun, so why not lean into this and give them different ammo or traps they could shoot from their gun to give them better 4v1 potential. Why not a tether trap that uses chains to hold Survivors in place for a set time, or maybe some Generator slowdown tools they can shoot from afar (to make up for the lack of movement speed).
Or you know, just give him his old kit back, the one thats currently in Springtrap. If you're worried about Starstruck which has also lost popularity and is not nearly as strong or novel as it once was, a reduced base terror radius helps with that plus the natural counterplay to slinger which has been a part of the game since his release: spread out.
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@scxrletghxst said:
Please for the Love of God.
Y'all literally kill your own game by listening to them who just whine about survivor perks. Dead hard will basically just be called "Dead" now and CoH will now basically be just a boon which will be useless. The game already feels unfair due to Killers literally having the advantage, Dead Hard not even activating even while spamming the button and teammates being useless and not even healing you because they are too busy crouching around in bushes.
If y'all release this god awful patch I will want my money back. In no way shape or form will I continue to play the game if y'all release this patch. Keep the bloodweb thing but everything else? Please no. A little tip: Instead of nerfing the ######### out of survivor touch killers hex totems instead. NOED, Devour Hope and so on. ######### give them such an advantage you can't counter because they partol their ######### totems. On God I hope this is a joke.
Surv entitlement in a nutshell.
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Global Exponential, Shadowstep and Dark Theory? For 22 seconds of work?
Haha, no.
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@ColdWater said:
Especially against Survivors using Botany Knowledge, Desperate Measures, We'll Make It or the Boon Totem (CoH)
Nah, it was a dubious but practical slowdown before CoH. Now it's objectively worse than any other slowdown perk which gives you other values on top of slowdown.
Even scourge hook gives a 9% penalty to gens on top of a the same effect as sloppy. CoH has killed most of the fair gameplay in the game. Just adopt the chad basement bubba lifestlye.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8PHRo_4qkE&ab_channel=GettingRealWiththeBoys -
@Icaurs said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2611627#Comment_2611627
Untrue. If Decisive strike was designed to be purely anti tunnel then
1 It should have 2 uses, why should it be disabled if used, if the killer is hit with Decisive, they won't go oh no I tunnelled, they say great now I can freely tunnel this guy.
2 the perk should only be disabled if a gen is touched or if a player heals (ect) why do killers still have the option to down a player and wait out the timer, old DS, sure slugging was a means of countering, but slugging now is simply abusing an already weak perk..
3 Decisive should not have a skill check or at least should not be affected by perks/addons(ect) that effect skill checks. Why do I only have a chance of escaping. I know its easy to hit the skill check but I do miss it occasionally and when I do, not only I suffer but my whole team suffers because of it. Killers even have a means of countering Decisive, unnerving presence/ enduring, clowns gas. This perk is supposed to stop killers from playing an unfun playstyle and yet have plenty of ways of countering it.
Lets be real the rework to Decisive strike was rushed and now the perk only really works if the killer is standing in front of the hook and chooses to pick them up immediately. Even if they do depending on the killer Decisive strike is not a big deal, especially high mobility killers such as nurse and Blight.
Old Decisive may have been strong but at least it made killers fear tunnelling. Unlike now where killers have little fear of the perk. Please bring back Old Decisive (Not original Decisive ) to return the game back to when tunnelling was really punishing.
Haha, oh wow.
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@Voodoo101 said:
Toxic is simple. Somebody who stands at the hook hitting the survivor on hook because they cannot chase somebody else, or how about somebody that writes so much at the end of the game that is censored because they only had one hook.
What would you consider toxic?
But that aint toxic.
T-bagging at pallets, clicky clicky & and head on baiting are all mind games to make a killer lose their cool.
Facecamping you and / or hitting on hook is no different. The devs themselves said not to think in terms of "winning" for killers, but deleting all hope.
Nothing beats a survivor mentally like being trapped in basement while he gives you some slaps.
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ahaha
